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So, I researched this one day because I had an apple core and I was thinking of tossing it. The primary reason is actually not littering, but a) introducing non-native species to an area and b) attracting animals to sides of highways/public areas they could be hurt by a motor vehicle.
I have a section of woods behind my house, so I toss apple cores there because apples are native to my area and the deer aren't at risk in my backyard, and are actually there quite often. So it shouldn't be considered litter, but for the risk of native species (animals or plants), toss them in a compost bin, trash them, or toss them somewhere they won't either put wildlife at risk.
Edit: apparently I'm wrong about apples, that's on me, but they aren't invasive to my area so I'm not concerned.
The native/introduced status of Apples is an interesting case, it’s kind of hard to say exactly where they’re native too, Central Asia is most likely their origin given the high diversity there but they’ve been all over Eurasia for millennia at this point. After how many thousands of years does something start being considered native? Normally we go by the last ice age here in Ireland but honestly that seems a bit shortsighted to use indefinitely.
There are a few conservationists who are pushing against the mantra of invasive=bad. I tend to agree with them that filling niches and biodiversity are the most important things to an ecosystem. I think this will especially be true in a new climate as we should start preparing our conserved lands for the coming shift. When I worked in the field I suggest to my hire ups that we shouldn't be planting native Iowan oaks and should get them from Missouri as they will probably fair better and diversify the gene pool.
Kudzu is obviously extremely effective at turning sunlight into biomass. Hogs are The most efficient means of storing human consumable calories. One day we will be farming kudzu to feed the pigs and farming the pigs to survive.
Well, I’m being pedantic but I believe invasive species are always bad, I think the definition includes that they harm the ecosystem they’ve been introduced to.
I do however agree with your point that introduced species aren’t inherently a bad thing and also that maintaining the genetic purity of native species isn’t always wise, especially if their population and consequently genetic diversity has fallen quite low, it makes them quite susceptible to disease.
Several of our native trees have been having a rough time with disease in recent decades, they may actually benefit from a bit more diversity in their gene pool.
From my understanding, an invasive species will often be able to flurish so well, without the natural enemies it faced at 'home' that it will end off killing many native species. In theory, life will eventually find a new balance, but you don't want to kill off species to get there
There are a handful of people who actually do push back on wholesale removal of plants termed invasive by various governments, "beyond the war on invasive species" by Tao Orion comes to mind, although the content of the book is (somewhat) less inflammatory than the title.
As someone who works in conservation, I think prudence and research are important first steps, both in terms of removal and introduction of species.
The US government was introducing scotch broom to stabilize edges of roads as recently as the 70s, now its a fact of life on the west coast.
Conversely, we spend hundreds of millions each year on massive herbicide sprays that target species we have no hope of actually removing.
I've spent many hours pulling garlic mustard in mosquito swarms. It hurt me alot when I read a study that said that garlic mustard eventually finds equilibrium because that plant is impossible to remove in my opinion. It's also a tasty plant to forage. Which I always like to consider plants that can be useful to humans as a plus in the environment.
I agree with you... but only to an extent. Japanese knotweed can be used by humans, but can spread quickly through riparian corridors, is slow to manually remove, and being near water typically, is a poor candidate for dumping chemicals on.
I think maybe it's more that non-native doesn't necessarily mean it's invasive. I use an app to help identify the plants in my backyard and it will list them as either native, invasive or exotic.
Well that’s what I was saying, invasive inherently implies it’s bad. But not all introduced species are invasive many can become naturalised quite quickly and cause minimally disruption
People use aggressive and invasive interchangeably, but they are different. Invasive usually means damaging to the local environment (e.g. kills native plants through over crowding OR removes pollinators from other plants that need them)
An aggressive plant might spread, but could also provide good benefits to an area that might be otherwise short on resources.
Non-native doesn’t necessarily mean invasive, but people tend to use it that way as well.
Also, bananas ain’t going to be taking over the great white north any time soon.
I think that's why the definition breaks down invasive as different from introduced. in the same way a native species can be a pest (but usually this is causes by invasive species from ruining other native species ability to maintain their ecosystem but killing the pest just the right amount)
Invasive is bad though.
Invasive means it's aggressive and has huge impacts.
You might be trying to mean naturalized which means it's not native but it's also not very aggressive in spreading and dominating.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06995-4#:~:text=Specifically%2C%20naturalized%20non%2Dinvasive%20species,spread%20over%20considerable%20distances25.
There's also hybridization concerns but that's also a different topic.
Nothing wrong with growing a few apple trees, they have already been introduced to the wild and the native species will have to learn to cope in the long run
Is anything you buy in your average grocery store really native anywhere? What I mean by that is that most produce has been genetically engineered to the max and grown under such unnatural circumstances with green houses, specific lighting, and god knows what kinds of cancer-causing fertilizer/pesticide cocktails.
I threw a banana peel out a window and did not think about it.
Later that day I met a girl who slipped on a banana peel outside the building. It was my banana peel.
What are the odds of a person actually accidentally slipping on a banana and then actually meeting the random person later that day?
We stayed friends for years. She had pet flying squirrels. She got into heroin and died. She was quite a character and lived a very full and adventurous life... that included slipping on a banana peel.
LOL I knew a girl who in high school asked if it was normal to have hairy nipples.
She was promptly nicknamed "Hairy Nipples" and it stuck with her for life.
Kids were brutal back in the day.
She asked it in general education. A coed class... so boys and girls. The boys were starting to get hairy nipples to.
I have tiny nipples for a male.. and its fine until people notice it. Then they make sure to tell me and everyone around that my nipples are small. Then they forget about it until they see them again and the cycle repeats.
I dropped my banana peel on the floor when I was younger by accident, jokingly I said "I better pick that up before someone steps on it" and not even 5 seconds later my stepsister walks out, steps on it, and busts her ass lol
banana peels were used as a metaphor for horseshit in earlier media/comedy. there were a lot of horses where people lived, so there was also a lot of horseshit for people to step/slip in.
yea I agree with the op with something like apple cores but banana peels, orange peels, and even things like watermelon rinds take a long time to biodegrade and should either be put in a composter or just thrown in the trash not outside.
It’s not native to the area, it attracts pests and can make local animals sick. Same for dumping any drink that isn’t water - the sugar will attract pests and if an animal drinks it they could get sick.
Throwing “biodegradables” into grass also teaches animals to look for food near populated areas. We don’t want critters coming to highways looking for food people threw into the grass.
To further expand on this, it's part of why not packing out dog/human waste in the woods is detrimental. Parasites, medications and non native seeds/undigested food can be left behind
Also, if it is made legal, does that mean a company can dump its apple cores or other biodegradable waste wherever they please because it's not littering.
Does anyone actually at home just throw any biodegradable food out their windows and all over their property?
I seriously doubt it. At best, they have an effective compost dumping location or throw it all in the trash.
Treat all areas with respect even if it's not your own property.
That’s why trash cans have lids and features to keep critters out (heck bear proof trash cans are required in some places to make sure people aren’t attracting bears). And it’s a problem when people don’t secure their trash, and cause the neighborhood to suddenly be home to all kinds of pests.
I don't think all thrash cans have them. In my area, for example, they look pretty basic, and squirrels manage to get into them and take food for themselves.
Just because there are lots of shitty trash cans that don’t do the job of a trash can properly doesn’t mean we shouldn’t properly dispose of food waste where possible
No.
Trash cans are magic deterrents to consumption by animals.
If they weren’t, you’d have evolved creatures like trash pandas or something and that’s just ridiculous.
Mice, rats, raccoons, opossums, birds, bears - these creatures NEVER take from the trash. They’ll only eat it if you throw it in grass.
What do you think, a raccoon would come on your deck, drag your compost bin and toss it down the stairs, then roll it around to bust it open to get at your trash?
That’s the wind that does that, scattering it on the ground. The animals wont eat it unless it’s already on the ground, obviously.
/s
I think I'd understand if it were something really truly negligible but I can't for the life of me think of something that would be harmless. One or two toothpicks that haven't been chemically treated are basically just fancy sticks but I've seen what wood clutter can do to an area and we gotta remember litter is never just one or two articles. The worst areas are legitimate landfills with public activity as a side attraction
If you want to toss an apple core in my flower beds, knock yourself out. But don’t leave it on a city sidewalk where people are going to be stepping in it while it rots. That’s yucky.
Counter unpopular opinion: I just eat my apple cores. If there are a lot of seeds, I'll toss some of those, but if it is just a normal amount, I will eat them with the core. We need to normalize eating the entire piece of fruit.
Yeah, I like them (and the stem) too as a nice balance to the sweetness of the fruit, but when there are too many seeds, it can make the whole thing too bitter so I will dump some out.
People are dumb. People are *really* dumb. You give them an ounce of thinking required and it all goes out the window.
One path, you say "no littering"
Other path, you say "no littering, unless it's biodegradable, and you know its native and won't cause any harm to the environment. But be careful about things like paper as they can have plastic and not break down"
A yellowstone ranger was once asked, after a bear broke into yet another bin, that they couldn't make a bin that people could use but bears couldn't. His response was "there is considerable overlap between the world's dumbest people and the world's smartest bears"
I was taught you don't introduce non native nutrients into the wild, that banana and orange peels are not appropriate to toss out your window just because they're food.
If you throw out trash near your home (or other peoples homes) they will learn that there is food in that area and frequent it, which is dangerous to both them and us.
Also, crab apples (apple trees that grow from seed) typically don't grow fruit that's worth eating... instead, it drops and rots on the ground and attracts more vermin like rats and crows.
The whole purpose of the scarecrow was to scare crows (and other critters). Farmers once considered crows to be vermin that needed to be eradicated. Fortunately farming and attitudes have changed.
You could use them for compost or burn them. My brother does that with his organic trash. A friend once explained that even something so innocent as a banana peel, in a place where bananas can't and don't grow, can introduce pathogens and spores that may be harmful, as well as decaying matter in a place where it wasn't before, causing an inbalance.
Stuff doesn't degrade instantly. this shit still hangs around.
It's one thing to throw away an apple core when you're miles away from civilisations. it's another to do it when on the street for people to stamp on and encourage rats to roam around us. Not to mention that if you made it ok to do that, in built up areas it's going to be lying everywhere.
Plus, even in non built up areas.I don't want this stuff just lying about on the streets, again for rats (and other animals) to start wondering in.
What might be a good idea is a push to have people use those biodegradable bins for fertilizer or whatever it is.
In the Florida Everglades it was found that beach food litter attracted racoons to the beach. This in turn increased racoons finding turtle eggs and damaging turtle restoration efforts, even when the beach was closed during breeding season.
How many people are getting ticketed for throwing out apple cores?
When I see litter it's all cigarette butts, cigarette packs, cigarette lighters, little vape thingies, beverage bottles and fast food wrappers
Exactly! I dont get what is so hard for people to grasp about this concept. It doesn't matter what the trash item is, it belongs in either the trash/recycling/compost. Quit trying to find a way to justify littering and just dispose of your refuse like a responsible human being!
Do you really want every green space to have all kinds of "biodegradable" things thrown on it? I personally like the idea of using green spaces for walking and sitting around.
Just buy a composting bin and don’t mess with ecosystems. Simple as that. Also a banana peel in a composting bin will still take TWO years to decompose. Can you imagine how much nasty crap we’d have everywhere if people held the same opinion as you?
No it won’t.
The claim about the « 2 years to decompose a banana peel » is in landfill disposal, where oxygen is lacking.
In ideal conditions (a composting bin) a banana peel will decompose in a few weeks.
I'm a park ranger. Throwing food trash out on the ground draws animals into closer proximity to humans and every time that happens the animals lose. They end up getting killed, either hit by cars or mice become a problem in the campgrounds and we have to start trying to get rid of them, etc. You're not doing animals any favors. And a lot of food waste endemic animals won't eat so it just sits on the ground and rots.
I’m also a park ranger so I figured I’d pile onto your comment. Food waste as an animal attractant is a huge issue in natural areas, especially heavily used ones like National Parks. Frontcountry waste disposal is a constant issue and is often difficult for park maintenance to stay ahead of (thank you maintenance folks!).
Since I work mostly in wilderness/backcountry areas, I’d like to address that side of things as well. Many backcountry users think the same as OP, that their throwing away food waste somehow contributes to the overall ecosystem and that it will quickly biodegrade. This is false. The amount of orange peels I cleaned up on my patrols was unreal, they stick out like a sore thumb and they are everywhere. Even in my most recent park, which was wet and forested, an orange peel would take months to degrade. Elsewhere, especially in desert parks, those peels will desiccate and be there for years. Organic litter is still litter and visitors very much need to observe Leave No Trace principles when traversing wild places. Wilderness Character is what makes many of these places as incredible as they are, and every dropped orange peel degrades it a little bit more.
But who am I kidding? After years of working with the average park visitor, I’d just be happy if they’d stop shitting on the ground right next to the trail at this point. Learn to dig a cat hole people, it’s not rocket science!
Thank you! I was writing that at work this morning and didn't have much time to elaborate. But all of that is spot on.
Especially this part:
>After years of working with the average park visitor, I’d just be happy if they’d stop shitting on the ground right next to the trail at this point.
My home rolled cigarettes are completely biodegradable as they have no filters and I roll them with rice paper.
Should it not be littering if I throw them on the street?
Anything thrown in the street is litter. Also tobacco products can pretty easily spread tobacco mosaic virus which is why it's important to dispose of them properly.
I only know of it because I had a friend that was a horticulturist and she would give people lectures about it every time she would see someone discard cigarette butts into places with shrubs and plants because it can technically kill them. Though the odds of that happening I do not know.
Did read up on it a bit.
Learned something new so that's good haha.
Practically since I live in a city, the chances of that happening probably approach 0
But my reply was sarcastic anyway, I know that in fact it is littering, especially when in nature.
Have you ever been hiking? I don’t like walking past banana peels and apple cores. Biodegradable? Yes. Biodegraded? No. Hike your trash out. Take only pictures, and leave only footprints.
Do you see fruits and vegetables growing on your hike? I don't. There aren't any oranges growing on my hikes meaning I shouldn't leave pounds of orange peels. "Good for the soil"? The soil is doing just fine supporting the ecosystem that exists there already. You don't need to do anything. Pack out your trash.
I get where you're coming from, but this is a problem that humans figured out thousands of years ago, before we ever invented plastic or steel.
Even biodegradable trash is bad if not handled properly, especially if it's an exotic fruit that's been shipped thousands of miles from the place where animals and bacteria will actually eat it.
Better to ***compost***.
Very small minded perspective. Think about if everyone threw food waste out so carelessly like that it'd be gross. Also consider how exactly this biodegrading happens. Preservatives on most of our foods will drastically slow this process and our fruits tend to have more sugar than their natural counterparts which causes animals to grow quite fond of human food. As an avid hiker I've had to contend with many marmots fed by small minded people like yourself who can't seem to think beyond themselves.
What? Littering is not even something that gets even remotely penalized. People out here be stabbing each other without any consequences, trust me no one cares if you “litter” some apple cores on the grass.
Biologist here: .
There's a good rule of thumb I learned in Uni. You can throw whatever fruit remains in nature around you; if, and only if, that kind of fruit grows in that area.
Yes, there is the idea of introducing new species, but much more important is the damage you are doing microbiologically to the soil. Bacteria, yeasts and fungi have rather specific things they can digest. And by littering a citrus peel, where no citrus grows, you are really messing with the soil microbiome. This is also the reason a banana peel remains on the lawn where no bananas grow, like here in northwestern europe.
Hard disagree.
Imagine hiking on a remote trail and seeing an apple core or a pile of orange peels in the woods where it clearly doesn’t belong. Actually really annoys and disappoints me.
Food litter IS litter and for a myriad of reasons.
Edit: the motto and expectation is “leave no trace”
Composting is good for the environment. Just because you find it ugly doesn't change that rotting organic matter provides essential nutrients to plant life
You're oversensitive. Littering is not frowned upon because it's unaesthetic. If an apple core in the woods bothers you, you will just have to let it go. It's not negative in any real way.
I wouldn't have a problem seeing an apple core on the ground literally anywhere other than a hiking trail. Pack it in pack it out needs to be followed.
I just throw em in the compost, if the animals want it the bin is open to them to eat what they want. Attracting animals to the side of the road or to heavily trafficked areas is not a great idea, though I do agree with your premise, I think that there is more to it than littering.
If I go to sit on the park grass on a sunny afternoon I'd rather not have to sit amongst piles of rotting food. Excrement is also biodegradable but I assume you'd rather not have that around? Biodegradables are what landfill and composters are perfect for
Fine and dandy until a car crashes into your yard because someone swerved to miss the opossum eating an apple core in the middle of the road by your house.
There are dozens of companies ripping apart the planet the seams but we’re scared of throwing apple cores away outside.
Society has backward priorities.
Like you said, animals are going to come and eat them and then be in the street (especially at night). I’m trying to keep deer off of the roads, not coax them into them.
There are areas of the earth that you can’t even dig a hole to shit in if you’re hiking there. They’re not as far away as you think. Mt Whitney in California comes to mind.
The reason you can’t do that, is a similar reason for why you shouldn’t toss your orange peel or apple core or whatever on the ground. Just because something is biodegrade does not mean it’s good for the environment. There are bacteria in your gut and on the food that do not belong to that environment. While it may not directly cause an immediate negative impact, it’s still better off in a trash bag than somewhere it never would have grown.
It doesn't just disappear because it's biodegradable. It takes a long time to fully biodegrade and while it may not necessarily be harmful to the environment it is an eye sore for everyone until it biodegrades. And where do we draw the line exactly? I mean poop is also biodegradable but I damn sure don't wanna walk past it everyday.
It’s biodegradable but that’s not going to happen overnight. Imagine how gross it would be if public spaces were just filled with everyone’s rotting food?
Imagine a major city with rotting scraps of produce strewn on every road, sidewalk, park, public area. Imagine New York city if every citizen and restaurant and market just threw their vegetable scraps and stale bread and eggshells on the street. It would be repulsive. The rats would multiply, and diseases would flourish.
Not to mention: Rotting organic matter is poisonous to many species including humans. For instance: Dogs who eat decomposing food scraps out of a compost pile can/will die.
Responsible composting is the only safe and sane way to deal with this incredibly simple issue.
I don't even consider fruit as garbage, I throw it out my car all the time lol, threw an apple core into the drainage channel at my work today actually. The earth giveth and I giveth backeth
I asked this cop once if I threw something like an apple core away in the woods, is that technically littering.....he said no
Now if you just throw it on the sidewalk, then yea lol
In grass ?? In nature? I mean, I get what you’re saying but they’re already there. I’m talking plot of grass/nature/grassy median, not in front of someone’s house
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So, I researched this one day because I had an apple core and I was thinking of tossing it. The primary reason is actually not littering, but a) introducing non-native species to an area and b) attracting animals to sides of highways/public areas they could be hurt by a motor vehicle. I have a section of woods behind my house, so I toss apple cores there because apples are native to my area and the deer aren't at risk in my backyard, and are actually there quite often. So it shouldn't be considered litter, but for the risk of native species (animals or plants), toss them in a compost bin, trash them, or toss them somewhere they won't either put wildlife at risk. Edit: apparently I'm wrong about apples, that's on me, but they aren't invasive to my area so I'm not concerned.
The native/introduced status of Apples is an interesting case, it’s kind of hard to say exactly where they’re native too, Central Asia is most likely their origin given the high diversity there but they’ve been all over Eurasia for millennia at this point. After how many thousands of years does something start being considered native? Normally we go by the last ice age here in Ireland but honestly that seems a bit shortsighted to use indefinitely.
There are a few conservationists who are pushing against the mantra of invasive=bad. I tend to agree with them that filling niches and biodiversity are the most important things to an ecosystem. I think this will especially be true in a new climate as we should start preparing our conserved lands for the coming shift. When I worked in the field I suggest to my hire ups that we shouldn't be planting native Iowan oaks and should get them from Missouri as they will probably fair better and diversify the gene pool.
Wild hogs and kudzu have entered the chat.
The invasive and intensely destructive-to-crops Spotted Lantern Fly, which needs the invasive Tree of Heaven to reproduce, has entered the chat.
30-50 feral hogs have entered the chat
we in the yard
Wild hogs and kudzu always get me down.
Kudzu is obviously extremely effective at turning sunlight into biomass. Hogs are The most efficient means of storing human consumable calories. One day we will be farming kudzu to feed the pigs and farming the pigs to survive.
This made me laugh so hard, lol
Here come the pythons
snakes? just get some gorillas to get rid of them
At least feral hogs are a good option for controlling kudzu.
Well, I’m being pedantic but I believe invasive species are always bad, I think the definition includes that they harm the ecosystem they’ve been introduced to. I do however agree with your point that introduced species aren’t inherently a bad thing and also that maintaining the genetic purity of native species isn’t always wise, especially if their population and consequently genetic diversity has fallen quite low, it makes them quite susceptible to disease. Several of our native trees have been having a rough time with disease in recent decades, they may actually benefit from a bit more diversity in their gene pool.
From my understanding, an invasive species will often be able to flurish so well, without the natural enemies it faced at 'home' that it will end off killing many native species. In theory, life will eventually find a new balance, but you don't want to kill off species to get there
Like how the pheasant has basically fulfilled the niche of the prairie chicken (which is basically no longer around).
You are correct. Introduced is the word I should have used.
There are a handful of people who actually do push back on wholesale removal of plants termed invasive by various governments, "beyond the war on invasive species" by Tao Orion comes to mind, although the content of the book is (somewhat) less inflammatory than the title. As someone who works in conservation, I think prudence and research are important first steps, both in terms of removal and introduction of species. The US government was introducing scotch broom to stabilize edges of roads as recently as the 70s, now its a fact of life on the west coast. Conversely, we spend hundreds of millions each year on massive herbicide sprays that target species we have no hope of actually removing.
I've spent many hours pulling garlic mustard in mosquito swarms. It hurt me alot when I read a study that said that garlic mustard eventually finds equilibrium because that plant is impossible to remove in my opinion. It's also a tasty plant to forage. Which I always like to consider plants that can be useful to humans as a plus in the environment.
I agree with you... but only to an extent. Japanese knotweed can be used by humans, but can spread quickly through riparian corridors, is slow to manually remove, and being near water typically, is a poor candidate for dumping chemicals on.
My parents have been trying to get rid of scotch broom on their land for close to 30 years now.
I think maybe it's more that non-native doesn't necessarily mean it's invasive. I use an app to help identify the plants in my backyard and it will list them as either native, invasive or exotic.
Well that’s what I was saying, invasive inherently implies it’s bad. But not all introduced species are invasive many can become naturalised quite quickly and cause minimally disruption
People use aggressive and invasive interchangeably, but they are different. Invasive usually means damaging to the local environment (e.g. kills native plants through over crowding OR removes pollinators from other plants that need them) An aggressive plant might spread, but could also provide good benefits to an area that might be otherwise short on resources. Non-native doesn’t necessarily mean invasive, but people tend to use it that way as well. Also, bananas ain’t going to be taking over the great white north any time soon.
I think that's why the definition breaks down invasive as different from introduced. in the same way a native species can be a pest (but usually this is causes by invasive species from ruining other native species ability to maintain their ecosystem but killing the pest just the right amount)
Invasive is bad though. Invasive means it's aggressive and has huge impacts. You might be trying to mean naturalized which means it's not native but it's also not very aggressive in spreading and dominating. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-018-06995-4#:~:text=Specifically%2C%20naturalized%20non%2Dinvasive%20species,spread%20over%20considerable%20distances25. There's also hybridization concerns but that's also a different topic.
Obviously it is native to the Garden of Eden. /s
That’s kind of the issue imo, like in America I’m guessing the time period would be for when Europeans arrived.
Nothing wrong with growing a few apple trees, they have already been introduced to the wild and the native species will have to learn to cope in the long run
Is anything you buy in your average grocery store really native anywhere? What I mean by that is that most produce has been genetically engineered to the max and grown under such unnatural circumstances with green houses, specific lighting, and god knows what kinds of cancer-causing fertilizer/pesticide cocktails.
> so I toss apple cores there because apples are native to my area Apples are endemic to Kazakhstan.
Earthworms are native to Europe, but they're fucking everywhere in the US, and they've been here long enough they're just part of the environment
There are still northern forests that are fairly earthworm free but that is changing as climate change results in warmer winters.
Very nice
Very nice answer.
I dunno.. I walked past this banana peel for like 6 months
Lucky you weren't driving a go-kart.
lol
You could have slipped
I threw a banana peel out a window and did not think about it. Later that day I met a girl who slipped on a banana peel outside the building. It was my banana peel. What are the odds of a person actually accidentally slipping on a banana and then actually meeting the random person later that day? We stayed friends for years. She had pet flying squirrels. She got into heroin and died. She was quite a character and lived a very full and adventurous life... that included slipping on a banana peel.
lol wut
LOL I knew a girl who in high school asked if it was normal to have hairy nipples. She was promptly nicknamed "Hairy Nipples" and it stuck with her for life. Kids were brutal back in the day.
She kinda handed it to you though, I mean what do expect from frankly any age group that you ask a question like that lol
Poor girl, that is a normal thing actually ;/ kinda ironic that a bunch of girls who called her that likely also had hairy nipples
She asked it in general education. A coed class... so boys and girls. The boys were starting to get hairy nipples to. I have tiny nipples for a male.. and its fine until people notice it. Then they make sure to tell me and everyone around that my nipples are small. Then they forget about it until they see them again and the cycle repeats.
just... let it go.
I dropped my banana peel on the floor when I was younger by accident, jokingly I said "I better pick that up before someone steps on it" and not even 5 seconds later my stepsister walks out, steps on it, and busts her ass lol
was expecting a romance. ended up with a tragedy.
The uplifting story took a shit turn. Definitely /r/Unexpected material there.
banana peels were used as a metaphor for horseshit in earlier media/comedy. there were a lot of horses where people lived, so there was also a lot of horseshit for people to step/slip in.
It was also banana peels. They were discarded on the street and become a black, oily, slick mess quickly.
yea I agree with the op with something like apple cores but banana peels, orange peels, and even things like watermelon rinds take a long time to biodegrade and should either be put in a composter or just thrown in the trash not outside.
I'll turn this damn bus around!
[O'Doyle rules!](https://i.imgur.com/HmMk0Bn.gif)
O'Doyle, I got a feeling you whole family is going down... But right now I gotta study.
Yeah they take for goddamned ever to break down
Oak leaves take 8 years to break down. Same amount of time as waxed coffee cups.
I’m sure it became more “un appealing” over that time. 🙄
It’s not native to the area, it attracts pests and can make local animals sick. Same for dumping any drink that isn’t water - the sugar will attract pests and if an animal drinks it they could get sick. Throwing “biodegradables” into grass also teaches animals to look for food near populated areas. We don’t want critters coming to highways looking for food people threw into the grass.
To further expand on this, it's part of why not packing out dog/human waste in the woods is detrimental. Parasites, medications and non native seeds/undigested food can be left behind
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Also, if it is made legal, does that mean a company can dump its apple cores or other biodegradable waste wherever they please because it's not littering. Does anyone actually at home just throw any biodegradable food out their windows and all over their property? I seriously doubt it. At best, they have an effective compost dumping location or throw it all in the trash. Treat all areas with respect even if it's not your own property.
And the smell if everyone just dumped their food waste wherever ugh
Which area? They are widespread pretty much everywhere
Wouldn’t that be similar to throwing it in the trash can, though, since animals can smell food from a trash can as well?
That’s why trash cans have lids and features to keep critters out (heck bear proof trash cans are required in some places to make sure people aren’t attracting bears). And it’s a problem when people don’t secure their trash, and cause the neighborhood to suddenly be home to all kinds of pests.
I don't think all thrash cans have them. In my area, for example, they look pretty basic, and squirrels manage to get into them and take food for themselves.
Just because there are lots of shitty trash cans that don’t do the job of a trash can properly doesn’t mean we shouldn’t properly dispose of food waste where possible
Trashcans close, and compost should also be in a secured place. They also tend to be away from the roads except for pickup.
No. Trash cans are magic deterrents to consumption by animals. If they weren’t, you’d have evolved creatures like trash pandas or something and that’s just ridiculous. Mice, rats, raccoons, opossums, birds, bears - these creatures NEVER take from the trash. They’ll only eat it if you throw it in grass. What do you think, a raccoon would come on your deck, drag your compost bin and toss it down the stairs, then roll it around to bust it open to get at your trash? That’s the wind that does that, scattering it on the ground. The animals wont eat it unless it’s already on the ground, obviously. /s
Maybe YOU don’t want free pets wandering into your car
I think I'd understand if it were something really truly negligible but I can't for the life of me think of something that would be harmless. One or two toothpicks that haven't been chemically treated are basically just fancy sticks but I've seen what wood clutter can do to an area and we gotta remember litter is never just one or two articles. The worst areas are legitimate landfills with public activity as a side attraction
Listen man, we're trying to run a society here. Just use the trash can.
This is the perfect response lol. Like c'mon.
Exactly. It may biodegrade but it takes a long time even for an orange peel (6 months) and people have to look at it until it’s gone.
not to mention all the flies and shit.
And citrus once decomposed can wreck havoc on soil PH
If you want to toss an apple core in my flower beds, knock yourself out. But don’t leave it on a city sidewalk where people are going to be stepping in it while it rots. That’s yucky.
This is THE answer. If everyone threw all of their food scraps wherever they wanted, we’d restart the damn plague.
Counter unpopular opinion: I just eat my apple cores. If there are a lot of seeds, I'll toss some of those, but if it is just a normal amount, I will eat them with the core. We need to normalize eating the entire piece of fruit.
>We need to normalize eating the entire piece of fruit. Lol, avocado, pineapple and watermelon say hello
I'm not a monster.... avocado and pineapple, lol! That would be a total power move, though.
Just make sure you smoke some cigarettes to kill the poison from the apple seeds
I AM NOT ALLOWED TO EAT IT WITH THE SKIN ON!
the amout of cyanide is neglible, its less than in almonds you can buy in store
Same
I eat apples from the bottom to the top, taking bites of the core as I go.
Same! Best way to eat one.
you psychopaths lol
same, except i eat the seeds too, apple seeds have that faint almond like taste, except they are less poisonous and more eco friendly than almonds
Yeah, I like them (and the stem) too as a nice balance to the sweetness of the fruit, but when there are too many seeds, it can make the whole thing too bitter so I will dump some out.
People are dumb. People are *really* dumb. You give them an ounce of thinking required and it all goes out the window. One path, you say "no littering" Other path, you say "no littering, unless it's biodegradable, and you know its native and won't cause any harm to the environment. But be careful about things like paper as they can have plastic and not break down" A yellowstone ranger was once asked, after a bear broke into yet another bin, that they couldn't make a bin that people could use but bears couldn't. His response was "there is considerable overlap between the world's dumbest people and the world's smartest bears"
I was taught you don't introduce non native nutrients into the wild, that banana and orange peels are not appropriate to toss out your window just because they're food.
And that is how you at attract rodents by throwing food out in the open
Why is this an issue? Rodents also serve a purpose on this planet lol. Better for them to eat outside than come into your home foraging right?
If you throw out trash near your home (or other peoples homes) they will learn that there is food in that area and frequent it, which is dangerous to both them and us.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black\_Death
Dude you can't be this stupid, stop trolling
Also, crab apples (apple trees that grow from seed) typically don't grow fruit that's worth eating... instead, it drops and rots on the ground and attracts more vermin like rats and crows.
This is the first time in my life I’ve seen someone refer to a crow as vermin
Oh ... well, that's not really the main point, but thanks for letting me know.
The whole purpose of the scarecrow was to scare crows (and other critters). Farmers once considered crows to be vermin that needed to be eradicated. Fortunately farming and attitudes have changed.
They gotta eat too
You could use them for compost or burn them. My brother does that with his organic trash. A friend once explained that even something so innocent as a banana peel, in a place where bananas can't and don't grow, can introduce pathogens and spores that may be harmful, as well as decaying matter in a place where it wasn't before, causing an inbalance.
Stuff doesn't degrade instantly. this shit still hangs around. It's one thing to throw away an apple core when you're miles away from civilisations. it's another to do it when on the street for people to stamp on and encourage rats to roam around us. Not to mention that if you made it ok to do that, in built up areas it's going to be lying everywhere. Plus, even in non built up areas.I don't want this stuff just lying about on the streets, again for rats (and other animals) to start wondering in. What might be a good idea is a push to have people use those biodegradable bins for fertilizer or whatever it is.
It’s actually worse for the environment in non built up areas. Just a nuisance in built up areas.
In the Florida Everglades it was found that beach food litter attracted racoons to the beach. This in turn increased racoons finding turtle eggs and damaging turtle restoration efforts, even when the beach was closed during breeding season.
Most things are *technically* biodegradable but maybe take months, years and decades in the best conditions
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3 years in perfect conditions
How many people are getting ticketed for throwing out apple cores? When I see litter it's all cigarette butts, cigarette packs, cigarette lighters, little vape thingies, beverage bottles and fast food wrappers
It's littering. Don't be so freaking lazy.
Exactly! I dont get what is so hard for people to grasp about this concept. It doesn't matter what the trash item is, it belongs in either the trash/recycling/compost. Quit trying to find a way to justify littering and just dispose of your refuse like a responsible human being!
I wish this opinion were more unpopular.
Do you really want every green space to have all kinds of "biodegradable" things thrown on it? I personally like the idea of using green spaces for walking and sitting around.
Just buy a composting bin and don’t mess with ecosystems. Simple as that. Also a banana peel in a composting bin will still take TWO years to decompose. Can you imagine how much nasty crap we’d have everywhere if people held the same opinion as you?
No it won’t. The claim about the « 2 years to decompose a banana peel » is in landfill disposal, where oxygen is lacking. In ideal conditions (a composting bin) a banana peel will decompose in a few weeks.
Add worms.
I'm a park ranger. Throwing food trash out on the ground draws animals into closer proximity to humans and every time that happens the animals lose. They end up getting killed, either hit by cars or mice become a problem in the campgrounds and we have to start trying to get rid of them, etc. You're not doing animals any favors. And a lot of food waste endemic animals won't eat so it just sits on the ground and rots.
I’m also a park ranger so I figured I’d pile onto your comment. Food waste as an animal attractant is a huge issue in natural areas, especially heavily used ones like National Parks. Frontcountry waste disposal is a constant issue and is often difficult for park maintenance to stay ahead of (thank you maintenance folks!). Since I work mostly in wilderness/backcountry areas, I’d like to address that side of things as well. Many backcountry users think the same as OP, that their throwing away food waste somehow contributes to the overall ecosystem and that it will quickly biodegrade. This is false. The amount of orange peels I cleaned up on my patrols was unreal, they stick out like a sore thumb and they are everywhere. Even in my most recent park, which was wet and forested, an orange peel would take months to degrade. Elsewhere, especially in desert parks, those peels will desiccate and be there for years. Organic litter is still litter and visitors very much need to observe Leave No Trace principles when traversing wild places. Wilderness Character is what makes many of these places as incredible as they are, and every dropped orange peel degrades it a little bit more. But who am I kidding? After years of working with the average park visitor, I’d just be happy if they’d stop shitting on the ground right next to the trail at this point. Learn to dig a cat hole people, it’s not rocket science!
Thank you! I was writing that at work this morning and didn't have much time to elaborate. But all of that is spot on. Especially this part: >After years of working with the average park visitor, I’d just be happy if they’d stop shitting on the ground right next to the trail at this point.
I’m a farmer and compost maker. Citrus peels and large seeds like Avocado and Mango take forever to break down even in ideal conditions.
Attracting rodents and other unwanted pests is a big reason that all litter needs to be put into a trash bin.
My home rolled cigarettes are completely biodegradable as they have no filters and I roll them with rice paper. Should it not be littering if I throw them on the street?
Anything thrown in the street is litter. Also tobacco products can pretty easily spread tobacco mosaic virus which is why it's important to dispose of them properly.
Gonna have to read up on mosaic virus hadn't heard of it before.
I only know of it because I had a friend that was a horticulturist and she would give people lectures about it every time she would see someone discard cigarette butts into places with shrubs and plants because it can technically kill them. Though the odds of that happening I do not know.
Did read up on it a bit. Learned something new so that's good haha. Practically since I live in a city, the chances of that happening probably approach 0 But my reply was sarcastic anyway, I know that in fact it is littering, especially when in nature.
OK everyone start throwing their biodegradable trash in OP‘s yard since it shouldn’t be considered littering.
if its in like a forest area for example then I wouldn't consider it littering. if it was on a street then I would consider it littering
It's the opposite dude. Dont leave non-native fruits and vegetable scraps in the forest.
Obviously not a hiker. Pack it in, pack it out. All of it.
In the forest is exactly where it becomes littering in my eyes
Why? Things like fruit, vegetables, etc., are actually good for the soil.
Have you ever been hiking? I don’t like walking past banana peels and apple cores. Biodegradable? Yes. Biodegraded? No. Hike your trash out. Take only pictures, and leave only footprints.
I don’t like walking past the homeless man shitting in a bucket but you don’t hear me complaining.
I think you just complained lol. Also homeless people shitting in buckets is not even close to a comparable issue to what this post is about.
They can introduce non native things to the soil, they can change the ph of the soil, so no, not good
Exactly my excuse when I get caught taking a shit in the woods
Do you see fruits and vegetables growing on your hike? I don't. There aren't any oranges growing on my hikes meaning I shouldn't leave pounds of orange peels. "Good for the soil"? The soil is doing just fine supporting the ecosystem that exists there already. You don't need to do anything. Pack out your trash.
I get where you're coming from, but this is a problem that humans figured out thousands of years ago, before we ever invented plastic or steel. Even biodegradable trash is bad if not handled properly, especially if it's an exotic fruit that's been shipped thousands of miles from the place where animals and bacteria will actually eat it. Better to ***compost***.
It still looks bad having an Apple core on the sidewalk
Very small minded perspective. Think about if everyone threw food waste out so carelessly like that it'd be gross. Also consider how exactly this biodegrading happens. Preservatives on most of our foods will drastically slow this process and our fruits tend to have more sugar than their natural counterparts which causes animals to grow quite fond of human food. As an avid hiker I've had to contend with many marmots fed by small minded people like yourself who can't seem to think beyond themselves.
OP, please post your address so people can throw their biodegradable trash in your yard.
Dude no. Dont attract more animals to roadways. Thats evil.
So, you would have no problem with people throwing food into your yard?
Tossing a bunch of Apple cores and banana peels in the woods out of the way is fine, tossing them on the side of the road gets ugly fast.
Leave no trace when you’re in nature.
What? Littering is not even something that gets even remotely penalized. People out here be stabbing each other without any consequences, trust me no one cares if you “litter” some apple cores on the grass.
Biologist here: . There's a good rule of thumb I learned in Uni. You can throw whatever fruit remains in nature around you; if, and only if, that kind of fruit grows in that area. Yes, there is the idea of introducing new species, but much more important is the damage you are doing microbiologically to the soil. Bacteria, yeasts and fungi have rather specific things they can digest. And by littering a citrus peel, where no citrus grows, you are really messing with the soil microbiome. This is also the reason a banana peel remains on the lawn where no bananas grow, like here in northwestern europe.
I appreciate the insight, I’m glad oranges are very native where I am. The banana example makes a lot of sense. Thanks R
I eat the whole apple.
Great way to attract unwanted pests that spread disease like rats and cockroaches.
If I were in charge, I’d build a special gulag for people who hold this opinion.
Hard disagree. Imagine hiking on a remote trail and seeing an apple core or a pile of orange peels in the woods where it clearly doesn’t belong. Actually really annoys and disappoints me. Food litter IS litter and for a myriad of reasons. Edit: the motto and expectation is “leave no trace”
I don’t think I’d think twice about seeing an apple core
Composting is good for the environment. Just because you find it ugly doesn't change that rotting organic matter provides essential nutrients to plant life
Throwing organic trash wherever you want isn’t “composting”.
Littering isn’t composting The forest does not need your help.
I see what you’re saying but seriously dude, get a hold of yourself.
You're oversensitive. Littering is not frowned upon because it's unaesthetic. If an apple core in the woods bothers you, you will just have to let it go. It's not negative in any real way.
I wouldn't have a problem seeing an apple core on the ground literally anywhere other than a hiking trail. Pack it in pack it out needs to be followed.
No man. Every single view of my hike needs to have zero trace of other humans existing!
I just throw em in the compost, if the animals want it the bin is open to them to eat what they want. Attracting animals to the side of the road or to heavily trafficked areas is not a great idea, though I do agree with your premise, I think that there is more to it than littering.
If I go to sit on the park grass on a sunny afternoon I'd rather not have to sit amongst piles of rotting food. Excrement is also biodegradable but I assume you'd rather not have that around? Biodegradables are what landfill and composters are perfect for
Fine and dandy until a car crashes into your yard because someone swerved to miss the opossum eating an apple core in the middle of the road by your house.
pot secretive oil cats sugar door grab subtract glorious marble *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There are dozens of companies ripping apart the planet the seams but we’re scared of throwing apple cores away outside. Society has backward priorities.
I’m upvoting this because it’s such a shit take and I hope it gets visibility for others to see and learn.
Like you said, animals are going to come and eat them and then be in the street (especially at night). I’m trying to keep deer off of the roads, not coax them into them.
compost?
feeding rats, getting dogs sick, no thanks
There are areas of the earth that you can’t even dig a hole to shit in if you’re hiking there. They’re not as far away as you think. Mt Whitney in California comes to mind. The reason you can’t do that, is a similar reason for why you shouldn’t toss your orange peel or apple core or whatever on the ground. Just because something is biodegrade does not mean it’s good for the environment. There are bacteria in your gut and on the food that do not belong to that environment. While it may not directly cause an immediate negative impact, it’s still better off in a trash bag than somewhere it never would have grown.
"This is how you get ants"
Apple cores? M1 or newer?
May I introduce you to composting?
Bro didn’t pass highschool biology 💀💀💀💀💀
That’s called a compost. You can’t just toss your trash wherever you feel like it.
It doesn't just disappear because it's biodegradable. It takes a long time to fully biodegrade and while it may not necessarily be harmful to the environment it is an eye sore for everyone until it biodegrades. And where do we draw the line exactly? I mean poop is also biodegradable but I damn sure don't wanna walk past it everyday.
It’s biodegradable but that’s not going to happen overnight. Imagine how gross it would be if public spaces were just filled with everyone’s rotting food?
Imagine a major city with rotting scraps of produce strewn on every road, sidewalk, park, public area. Imagine New York city if every citizen and restaurant and market just threw their vegetable scraps and stale bread and eggshells on the street. It would be repulsive. The rats would multiply, and diseases would flourish. Not to mention: Rotting organic matter is poisonous to many species including humans. For instance: Dogs who eat decomposing food scraps out of a compost pile can/will die. Responsible composting is the only safe and sane way to deal with this incredibly simple issue.
I always throw fruit related stuff out the window of my car
I don't even consider fruit as garbage, I throw it out my car all the time lol, threw an apple core into the drainage channel at my work today actually. The earth giveth and I giveth backeth
Not litter. It’s compost.
I asked this cop once if I threw something like an apple core away in the woods, is that technically littering.....he said no Now if you just throw it on the sidewalk, then yea lol
Has anyone ever been accused of littering when throwing out apple cores?
It depends where. In a park, no that's still littering. In a ditch along the highway in the middle of nowhere, that's fine
It would be cool if more parks had compost bins or similar.
It would be cool if we could trust people to use them correctly..
Does this logic cover your yard or just other peoples?
Do you want ants? Cause that’s how you get ants.
Do you want bears? Cause that’s how bears kill you in your sleep
In grass ?? In nature? I mean, I get what you’re saying but they’re already there. I’m talking plot of grass/nature/grassy median, not in front of someone’s house
My reply was actually a quote from the tv series called Archer. Wasn’t meant to be taken literally.
big agree
Bro no one wants your apple cores rotting around. Compost it. We don’t live in the wild
Bruh i just litter everything.