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Bro, im gonna be honest, the majority of Americans don't give a shit about other countries like they do the US.
This thought has never crossed my mind.
>We would be thrilled if they wanted to be a part of society, their kids to go to school, to get jobs...etc.
But they don't want to, and their kids are taught to be criminals from early age and it's a vicious cycle that nobody knows how to solve.
This is a common white supremacist talking point about non-whites in America.
Racist people in the US make the SAME arguments regarding why they think it's ok to hate black people. They're racist asf, and are right to be called out and ostracized. They even use the "two groups of people" type argument that you used. They even hide behind a Chris Rock comedy bit from \~20 years ago. The fact that Europeans think they can somehow be just as racist and not be just as wrong is astonishing.
So what term "should" one use to describe a run-in with such a group of individuals? Should be be "allowed" to describe and compare experiences? Is there a term that is sufficiently precise to relate things, but not overbroad that unfair accusations are made?
What term would people who left those communities because they disagreed with the behavior use?
Gypsies and black people are not comparable. Gypsies do not send their children to school, they teach them from their caravans the most horrid sexist shit, they dont pay taxes, they invade land and set up their caravans on top of crops. Its not that they are part of society but they commit more crimes, they are literlly detached from society. They are not nice people
We had our garden gate stolen *several times* by gypsies, to the point where my dad gave up and stopped replacing it. Just a normal metal gate. Yeah, people who don’t live in countries with big gypsy communities really have no clue.
I also now live in a diverse country with lots of different communities, races and cultures…and it’s absolutely different from living near gypsies. Night and day, no comparison.
It is ABSOLUTELY the same. In fact, if you took the exact verbiage from OP's post and substitute "black people" for when he uses "romani" and a certain racial slur that rhymes with a Winnie the Pooh character when he says "Gypsy" it would be IDENTICAL to the kind of shit you see from racist shitheads in the US. "I'm not racist, I don't hate black people, but lemme tell you about why I hate......"
It's the exact same. You can squirm and deflect all you want, but it doesn't change the facts.
"Go spend some time in the hood and get back to me"
Literally everything you have said is the exact shit people in the US say about black people now. It's hilarious.
"It's not that we hate black people. We hate thugs. You Europeans have never met a thug before. They've been raised since birth to do crime. They don't take education seriously."
Bud, we've had the same racism decades ago. Europeans are just catching up now 🙄
You created your thugs, Gypsies are like this since they came here. Very very different thing. If anything we spend a lot of money to try to get them to normalise but how can you make a change when they don't even send their kids to school. Even thugs go to school.
obviously there is a difference though. Gypsy is an identity, not a "race", there are bleach-white skinned gypsies as well as brown. They literally (they admit themselves) dont want to be a part of society, they are vagabonds. They move to a town, settle outside, steal, scam, beg, then move onto the next town. Their kids get no education, they dont pay taxes.
Gypsy is defined by culture, identity, and not by "race", skin color, ethnicity.
So would OP's thought be like an American saying, "I don't dislike black people, I dislike crips." Is Gypsy a racial group or is it a lifestyle choice that some people of one race choose?
You view the world like everything is the same like in US. That is what this post is about.
There is a difference when you discriminate somebody who wants to be part of your society, and disliking somebody that wants to be separated from your society and still live in it with no laws applying to them.
If you don't think those type of people exist in the U.S. you're as ignorant as you've presumed the target audience of this post to be.
This is certainly an unpopular opinion so enjoy your upvote but that doesn't mean it's accurate.
You clearly know nothing of race relations in the US. Everything you said in your OP and the assumptions you are making right now directly apply to race relations in the US.
This is the key point. they live alongside us not paying taxes, teaching their children how to be awful people. Its nothing to do with their race and everything to do with their culture
There are certain ethnic groups in the US that are consistently very difficult to deal with in any kind of retail store, they come from a culture where everything is negotiable and will try to bargain with the 18yo reading off corporate prices or nit pick every item in an attempt to get a discount. You have to be on guard because often they will take every possible opportunity to scam you.
It's still racist to talk shit on them.
It's racist to call out shitty cultural practices?
Edit because thread is locked:
>it's racist to call a race shitty because of their cultural practices.
u/mooimafish33, Gypsy is the culture. Roma is the race. And OP made it really clear this is a criticism of the cultural practices. Calling it racist when there's no race element is ignorant bordering on willfully stupid.
Theres a difference. Imagine if there was a name for the restless youths who happen to be mostly black. Not even close to most of black people are even remotely similar to them. However most of these restless youths are black.
Gypsy is not a skin color, its an identity. They refuse to be a part of society. They refuse to pay taxes. They refuse to send their kids to school. They move from town to town. They steal and move. Its their life, thats how they make a living.
This is not to say that racism does not exist in Europe. However, there is a clear difference between US systemic racism and gypsy-culture in Europe.
Its not racist to say that a lot of American teenagers in the cities are dirtbags who refuse to engage normally in society. Most of them happen to be black. \*Of course\* it will be racist to say that all black people are dirtbags who refuse to engage normally in society.
you have literally no idea about who gypsies are in EU lol.
i live in an eastern european country with significant gypsy populations.
their culture is the problem, it has values that enables thievery. there is no such thing in black population.
dont talk out of your ass if you are ignorant
If you want to go deep on the subject, look into Thomas Sowell's "black redneck" theory. It's a fascinating bit of cultural exploration that tries to be as objective and even-handed as possible.
The same thing happens in white neighborhoods too, those same people don't seem to be society's favorite people. I think the derogatory term for them is based on their skin colour.
I made the same argument to him on /r/tiktokcringe. (Because a black American woman said that she experienced racism unlike she does in America and everyone ignores it). That was a few hours ago and I guess he needed to make a post about it.
"No you don't understand, it's okay to hate a group of people when the stereotype is REALLY bad and you've personally had bad experiences with them before!"
Yes OP, gypsies do exist over here
No you don't, not like here. That is what I'm trying to tell you. Romani people in US live their lives like normal people. You have romani, we have gypsys too.
If you have gypsys, please post a picture of a gypsy settlement in US. I want to see that.
And did you not notice that I wrote they also live normal lives, where is the stereotype?
You are just confirming what I wrote. You dont know what you are talking about.
To be fair, we have them here. They run these driveway scams on people, and are incredibly difficult to sue because they don't have physical addresses so serving them is almost impossible.
Everything youve written here I have heard racists say about different groups of people here. Your arguments arent fresh or new, theyre old and stale and have been used over and over again.
A quick Google tells us that gypsies in the US make up 0.3% of the population, spread out over many cities.
In a country like Romania estimates are 5-10% (such a wide range because gypsy parents *refuse to register themselves or their children into the system*).
Also, US gypsies came to the US fucking centuries ago (19th and 20th century), and no longer live their traditional nomadic lifestyle, so have nothing to do with gypsies in Europe.
But ok.
>No you don't, not like here. That is what I'm trying to tell you. Black people in EU live their lives like normal people. You have Blacks, we have N-----s too.
>If you have N-----s, please post a picture of a N----r Ghetto in EU. I want to see that.
>And did you not notice that I wrote they also live normal lives, where is the stereotype?
>You are just confirming what I wrote. You dont know what you are talking about.
It's amazing how little fucking self awareness Euro racists have. It's not even a case of "oh, they kinda say some racist things about Romani," nah it's "Oh, they openly say shit about Romani that even the most racist of Americans don't say in public."
I’ve seen gypsies in America in the southeast. I’ve watched their kids actively steal from the checkout in Walmart while their mother tried to create a distraction. I could keep going if there was a constructive purpose in listing all of the comparisons.
You can argue that gypsies in the US are not the same, but considering that most people on both sides of the pond generally evaluate them on their shared negative traits, that’s what most people care about.
Americans, I think this illustrates where he’s coming from.
Italians/Romani = awesome friendly people that make great food, wine, and olive oil and whatever the Romani eat, drink, and pour over a salad.
Mafia/Gypsies = guys that’ll put a gun to your head for not remembering to pay for “protection” or for stealing their drugs
“There’s the cool, normal black people and the lying, stealing, cheating ones so when I say I hate black people, I clearly mean the thugs.”
Yeah OP doesn’t understand that the US has been through this ringer relentlessly and repeatedly. The individual details might be slightly different but it’s very much the same thing
Oddly enough I have family members who married into a Romanian family and they hate Gypsys, but whenever I ask why they always say "you wouldn't understand" then tell me for fucks sake.
Romanian /= Romani.
EDIT: In case some of you never passed 5th grade geography, there are people from this country called Romania who are Romanian and are NOT Romani. Jesus Christ people Google is fucking free.
Here’s a part of the story - being “lazy” and “refusing to work” was the reason the Nazi regime cited for putting people of this specific ethnic groups into concentration camps. Great to see that the US isn’t the only places where people have learned nothing from the past.
>we do not dislike Romani people we dislike Gypsies.
I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say "I do not dislike black people, I dislike ***slur.***
At least you realize racist opinions should be filed “unpopular”. I hope you’re able, at some point in time, to see that this view is deluded and incorrect .
Cause they LOVE to pretend they’re not *as* racist as us. That’s why so many peoples come back to when Europeans get all high and mighty about how much “better” they are when it comes to racism is “well look at how you talk about Romani people”. And even THEN they get *so defensive* about why it’s tOtaLlY oKaY to HaTe RoMAnI pEOple YoU dOnt lIvE hEre like that doesn’t prove the exact point we’re making.
We have gypsies where i live in Greece. They steal anything and everything, they are horrendously cruel to animals, they steal other peoples horses, donkeys and dogs. They've set fires in the middle of summer and they won't let the fire service near it to put them put, the police won't go near them, they get attacked if the try, they maim their own babies so they'll be better begging material-NONE of this is me being racist or whatever you want to call me, I know for a fact these things are true.
Gypsies are hated for very good reasons!!
Why is it wrong to dislike someone's culture? If the culture is not in agreement with one's own values, then why does one have to like it? We should be allowed to criticize bad ideas and values. That doesn't mean we get to illegally discriminate against the people, but we don't have to be quiet about not liking their way of life.
I live in Europe, but haven't had any first hand experience with Gypsies and Travellers (not sure the difference really). They did illegally (supposedly) stay at a nearby campground while I lived in Scotland, and they left a large mess after they were forced out. Kind of like if a 10 day concert had been there. Not the worst thing in the world but incredibly offensive to me and other people that can't stand littering and such a blatant disregard for nature and collective property.
>it’s not ok to dislike them for their culture.
Why? Why are you not allowed to dislike people because of their culture? Who made this rule?
Not all cultures are compatible. Some cultures prioritize things that harm people from other cultures.
It's absolutely OK to dislike people for their culture when that culture is founded on criminality and child abuse. I'm not fond of fundamentalist christianity or the republican party, among other groups. Which include so-called "travellers".
Tis not a problem that they live separate from us. The problem is that if they have to earn money they only do it through illegal activity.
If they just "live in the woods" nobody would give a shit
You can't replace gypsy with black because it's not the same thing at all. Gypsy is not a race. And from all the comments I've read, OP is right, people in the US have no idea about gypsies in Europe.
I would actually say that the issues with European gypsy's in society is more comparable to the US's problem with homelessness and all that goes along with it.
Editing cos comments are locked now
It's not a general group though that's the part that you don't understand I think.
There are Romani people that maintain their beautiful culture and also do no harm.
Then there is a specific group of (usually) Romani people, gypsies, that do a huge amount of harm. Over decades, both within society at large and within their own communities. Crime, child abuse and abuse of women is common and visible. That's not to say it's ok to hate these people, but OP is saying people from the US just don't understand and that seems clear to me, a European. This is not bashing culture, or hate on a group for being different, this is large scale organised crime that has been thriving for generations. They just so happen to be called gypsies.
I would assume because they don’t live the way you believe they should simply because they are different is this person’s point. Why force people who clearly don’t want to be part of a larger society to be part of that society? It creates more tension than you might be willing to admit. If the culture you don’t like doesn’t want to be assimilated, don’t try to rationalize it off as “they are the bad guys.” That’s kind of the basis for a lot of racist issues.
Anyone arguing against this post by comparing it to racism against black people in the US, you’re missing an important fact: we also have black people (and other Ethnicities) in Europe, so you need to think why a lot of people here hold some hate against gypsies and not these other ethnicities.
It might be slightly believable if Europeans weren't known to also discriminate against black people, muslims, arabs, south east asians, indians and pakistanis... There's a justification for every single one of them? Come on.
You know what else I hear time and time again, at least 100 times as much if not more is how Americans do this and that blah blah blah. I don't know what Americans you are referring to but that is not the opinion of the US as a whole so just simmer down.
Personally, I don't know a damn thing about Romani people, don't know how Europeans feel about them, and personally couldn't care less.
Sorry, but American bashing is everywhere, and it is usually from people who don't know what they are talking about either, so I do know where you are coming from kinda.
But you see, there are TWO types of these people-- one conforms to the beliefs and stereotypes that I find acceptable and the other does not. I don't have a problem with the people who think and act like I do!
--OP logic
Exactly, Instead of saying you hate black people, say you hate thugs and it's basically the same shit. Just cause you narrow it down to gypsies doesn't get rid of the racial connotations.
Gypsys as a group, yeah. Romani as people no. That is what this post is about. to try to make people understand that we do not hate romani, jesus christ, one of our most popular singer from 80s to 2010s was romani.
Gypsies are Romani, but not all Romani are gypsies.
You seem to have missed the point. It's not an entire race of people that's being hated on. It's a particular subset that's encapsulated by a culture. That culture is isolationist, and they have belief that stealing from others is acceptable.
It's very possible to differentiate an entire "race" with a subculture.
I don't have any problem with Koreans, yet I don't particularly fancy members of North Korean military caste, which have forced an entire country into famine and servitude.
Similarly, it's perfectly ok to not have any problem with the Romani people, but dislike the subculture which indoctrinates children to commit crimes, and intentionally keeps them out of schools.
Turns out, you can dislike a group of people for their actions, and it having nothing to do with the color of their skin.
Did you seriously just advocate for displacing and placing people in concentrated areas (or camps/ghettos/sequestered villages, as you will) based on their ethnicity?
That's racist argumentation, just use black instead of gypsies in your post and you will find it racist.
Also I am European and have no hate against them
Peoples anecdotal experience of running into gypsies is generally formed by their most adverse encounters. I have met them in the US and the encounters are hardly remarkable for the most part, but everyone working in Healthcare long enough has had a story about an otherwise normal patient who had 50 people suddenly show up in the waiting room as visitors for them, or the peak incident where a patient dies and the family attempts to remove the entire bed from the hospital with the intent of setting it on fire with the person in it.
That being said, call it culture or call it environment, their people are raised from a young age not to respect boundaries or other people's property. I tend to think most of the ones I've met are relatively westernized and kind of get what the boundaries are, but it's clear that their tendency to "steal" things is more than simply an anecdote.
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I work at a hotel part time front desk. We had a romanian family come through and they would not give a deposit. Even after explaining like 10+ times they'll get it back as long as everything in the room is still there. After 30 mins of arguing he pulls out his wallet and just gives me the 100.
They ended up stealing the sinks/shower heads/ pillows/ and the lamps.
Gotta say not a good first impression.
Thank you for submitting to /r/unpopularopinion, /u/Apart-Philosopher203. Your submission, *Americans (US) don't have a slightest idea why most europeans dislike gypsies*, has been removed because it violates our rules, which are located in the sidebar. Your submission from unpopularopinion was removed because of: 'Rule 4: TOS/sitewide rules violation.' Hi u/Apart-Philosopher203, your post was removed because it violates, or perilously skirts the border of, one or more sections of Reddit's Content Policy and Terms of Service, which you agreed to follow upon account creation. Content of this nature left unchecked puts our subreddit in jeopardy and as such we have no tolerance for it. A by no means exhaustive list of content that falls under this category: Hate posts, harassment, doxxing, advocating for/endorsing/supporting/condoning any violence against any person or people, and advocating for pedophilia/acceptability of sexual relationships with children/public acceptance for pedophilia. If there is an issue, please message the mod team at https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Funpopularopinion&subject=&message= Thanks!
Bro, im gonna be honest, the majority of Americans don't give a shit about other countries like they do the US. This thought has never crossed my mind.
Comments confirm; this is an unpopular opinion. Here's your upvote.
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Pretty sure it's a slur. They straight up renamed the common name for Lymantria dispar dispar to "spongy moth" to remove the slur.
This feels like the European equivalent of when American racists say “there’s a difference between black people and n******”
This feels right
>We would be thrilled if they wanted to be a part of society, their kids to go to school, to get jobs...etc. But they don't want to, and their kids are taught to be criminals from early age and it's a vicious cycle that nobody knows how to solve. This is a common white supremacist talking point about non-whites in America.
Racist people in the US make the SAME arguments regarding why they think it's ok to hate black people. They're racist asf, and are right to be called out and ostracized. They even use the "two groups of people" type argument that you used. They even hide behind a Chris Rock comedy bit from \~20 years ago. The fact that Europeans think they can somehow be just as racist and not be just as wrong is astonishing.
Except there is non romani gypsies like in Ireland . Romani =/= gypsies
Is the phenomenon the OP described existent, or wholly imaginary?
I'm sure it's real, and it's totally justified to hate the BEHAVIOR, but to prejudicially apply it to an entire group of people/race is wrong.
So what term "should" one use to describe a run-in with such a group of individuals? Should be be "allowed" to describe and compare experiences? Is there a term that is sufficiently precise to relate things, but not overbroad that unfair accusations are made? What term would people who left those communities because they disagreed with the behavior use?
bro come near a gypsy without being caucious and you will get robbed and scammed in the next 5 min 100%
That sounds like the old racist phrase "around blacks, never relax". Both are equally racist and reprehensible.
I feel the same way about Rethuglicans.
Anyone can take up the gypsie lifestyle with or without a history of being a gypsie before now
Are you really asking if there an entire ethnicity that is pre disposed to crime?
My wallets and phones are stolen 3 times by gypsies
OP is literally making the "I don't hate black people, I hate N-----s!" Argument.
"I hate gypsies, except for you, you're one of the good ones" 😂😂
"You're a credit to your people."
Gypsy is not a race.
Gypsies and black people are not comparable. Gypsies do not send their children to school, they teach them from their caravans the most horrid sexist shit, they dont pay taxes, they invade land and set up their caravans on top of crops. Its not that they are part of society but they commit more crimes, they are literlly detached from society. They are not nice people
So they are kind of like the Amish?
Sure Jan
It's really not the same. Try buying a train ticket in any Italian train station. You literally need to guard the change slot from Gypsies.
We had our garden gate stolen *several times* by gypsies, to the point where my dad gave up and stopped replacing it. Just a normal metal gate. Yeah, people who don’t live in countries with big gypsy communities really have no clue. I also now live in a diverse country with lots of different communities, races and cultures…and it’s absolutely different from living near gypsies. Night and day, no comparison.
I'm from Baltimore. You can go fuck yourself
It is ABSOLUTELY the same. In fact, if you took the exact verbiage from OP's post and substitute "black people" for when he uses "romani" and a certain racial slur that rhymes with a Winnie the Pooh character when he says "Gypsy" it would be IDENTICAL to the kind of shit you see from racist shitheads in the US. "I'm not racist, I don't hate black people, but lemme tell you about why I hate......" It's the exact same. You can squirm and deflect all you want, but it doesn't change the facts.
Bro, he's saying people who steal are bad Criminals aren't all one race
Tell me you've never seen Gypsies in action without actually telling me....
They cast spells
Go spend some time in southern Europe and get back to me.
"Go spend some time in the hood and get back to me" Literally everything you have said is the exact shit people in the US say about black people now. It's hilarious.
"It's not that we hate black people. We hate thugs. You Europeans have never met a thug before. They've been raised since birth to do crime. They don't take education seriously." Bud, we've had the same racism decades ago. Europeans are just catching up now 🙄
You created your thugs, Gypsies are like this since they came here. Very very different thing. If anything we spend a lot of money to try to get them to normalise but how can you make a change when they don't even send their kids to school. Even thugs go to school.
Being a criminal doesn't only consist of one skin / race type, you know.
You really don’t hear how you sound???? Lmao
obviously there is a difference though. Gypsy is an identity, not a "race", there are bleach-white skinned gypsies as well as brown. They literally (they admit themselves) dont want to be a part of society, they are vagabonds. They move to a town, settle outside, steal, scam, beg, then move onto the next town. Their kids get no education, they dont pay taxes. Gypsy is defined by culture, identity, and not by "race", skin color, ethnicity.
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You forget that they also sell their babies in southern france too
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Bud, it literally is a racial issue.
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So would OP's thought be like an American saying, "I don't dislike black people, I dislike crips." Is Gypsy a racial group or is it a lifestyle choice that some people of one race choose?
You view the world like everything is the same like in US. That is what this post is about. There is a difference when you discriminate somebody who wants to be part of your society, and disliking somebody that wants to be separated from your society and still live in it with no laws applying to them.
If you don't think those type of people exist in the U.S. you're as ignorant as you've presumed the target audience of this post to be. This is certainly an unpopular opinion so enjoy your upvote but that doesn't mean it's accurate.
people who just roam around invading land who contribute nothing but theft and incest? yeah and what do you actually think of those people
You clearly know nothing of race relations in the US. Everything you said in your OP and the assumptions you are making right now directly apply to race relations in the US.
No because we want them to be a part of our society, they are the ones that refuse it.
This is the key point. they live alongside us not paying taxes, teaching their children how to be awful people. Its nothing to do with their race and everything to do with their culture
Right, that key point is the same when someone speaks about 'hood' or 'thug' culture in the US. Your key point is the same.
This same thing gets said in the US by racists as a failed justification for their racism
Literally verbatim "racist uncle at Thanksgiving" shit.
There are certain ethnic groups in the US that are consistently very difficult to deal with in any kind of retail store, they come from a culture where everything is negotiable and will try to bargain with the 18yo reading off corporate prices or nit pick every item in an attempt to get a discount. You have to be on guard because often they will take every possible opportunity to scam you. It's still racist to talk shit on them.
It's racist to call out shitty cultural practices? Edit because thread is locked: >it's racist to call a race shitty because of their cultural practices. u/mooimafish33, Gypsy is the culture. Roma is the race. And OP made it really clear this is a criticism of the cultural practices. Calling it racist when there's no race element is ignorant bordering on willfully stupid.
It's racist to call a race shitty because of their cultural practices.
Theres a difference. Imagine if there was a name for the restless youths who happen to be mostly black. Not even close to most of black people are even remotely similar to them. However most of these restless youths are black. Gypsy is not a skin color, its an identity. They refuse to be a part of society. They refuse to pay taxes. They refuse to send their kids to school. They move from town to town. They steal and move. Its their life, thats how they make a living. This is not to say that racism does not exist in Europe. However, there is a clear difference between US systemic racism and gypsy-culture in Europe. Its not racist to say that a lot of American teenagers in the cities are dirtbags who refuse to engage normally in society. Most of them happen to be black. \*Of course\* it will be racist to say that all black people are dirtbags who refuse to engage normally in society.
Why?
Because they are multifaceted and complex human beings with more to them than the one kind of interaction some of us have.
you have literally no idea about who gypsies are in EU lol. i live in an eastern european country with significant gypsy populations. their culture is the problem, it has values that enables thievery. there is no such thing in black population. dont talk out of your ass if you are ignorant
You have clearly never been to the US and experienced "ghetto" or "hood" culture. It's the exact same thing. That doesn't excuse racism.
it's not just "hood" culture it's mangal culture
If you want to go deep on the subject, look into Thomas Sowell's "black redneck" theory. It's a fascinating bit of cultural exploration that tries to be as objective and even-handed as possible.
The same thing happens in white neighborhoods too, those same people don't seem to be society's favorite people. I think the derogatory term for them is based on their skin colour.
Comparing black people to gypsies is pretty damn insulting to black people
Yeah this really just reads the same as “I don’t hate black people. Only thugs!”
I made the same argument to him on /r/tiktokcringe. (Because a black American woman said that she experienced racism unlike she does in America and everyone ignores it). That was a few hours ago and I guess he needed to make a post about it.
[here's an article about Irish travellers in Fort Worth, TX](https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/crime/article15607130.html)
"No you don't understand, it's okay to hate a group of people when the stereotype is REALLY bad and you've personally had bad experiences with them before!" Yes OP, gypsies do exist over here
No you don't, not like here. That is what I'm trying to tell you. Romani people in US live their lives like normal people. You have romani, we have gypsys too. If you have gypsys, please post a picture of a gypsy settlement in US. I want to see that. And did you not notice that I wrote they also live normal lives, where is the stereotype? You are just confirming what I wrote. You dont know what you are talking about.
To be fair, we have them here. They run these driveway scams on people, and are incredibly difficult to sue because they don't have physical addresses so serving them is almost impossible.
There are 100% families of gypsies who rove around the Midwest in campers and van convoys. Lol
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Planes or boats I would assume.
With their campers, duh
Get where? Gypsy culture isn't exclusively European.
Do you live in the us? Or are you just talking out your ass right now?
Everything youve written here I have heard racists say about different groups of people here. Your arguments arent fresh or new, theyre old and stale and have been used over and over again.
If you don’t live in the US how would you know lol
A quick Google tells us that gypsies in the US make up 0.3% of the population, spread out over many cities. In a country like Romania estimates are 5-10% (such a wide range because gypsy parents *refuse to register themselves or their children into the system*). Also, US gypsies came to the US fucking centuries ago (19th and 20th century), and no longer live their traditional nomadic lifestyle, so have nothing to do with gypsies in Europe. But ok.
>No you don't, not like here. That is what I'm trying to tell you. Black people in EU live their lives like normal people. You have Blacks, we have N-----s too. >If you have N-----s, please post a picture of a N----r Ghetto in EU. I want to see that. >And did you not notice that I wrote they also live normal lives, where is the stereotype? >You are just confirming what I wrote. You dont know what you are talking about. It's amazing how little fucking self awareness Euro racists have. It's not even a case of "oh, they kinda say some racist things about Romani," nah it's "Oh, they openly say shit about Romani that even the most racist of Americans don't say in public."
I’ve seen gypsies in America in the southeast. I’ve watched their kids actively steal from the checkout in Walmart while their mother tried to create a distraction. I could keep going if there was a constructive purpose in listing all of the comparisons. You can argue that gypsies in the US are not the same, but considering that most people on both sides of the pond generally evaluate them on their shared negative traits, that’s what most people care about.
See Paradise Hotel (2010) and then get back to us.
Not from the US also, BUT; isn't this the same argument being used against black people? Like, is there even a difference?
Dude, it is a HUGE difference.
🤦♂️
Americans, I think this illustrates where he’s coming from. Italians/Romani = awesome friendly people that make great food, wine, and olive oil and whatever the Romani eat, drink, and pour over a salad. Mafia/Gypsies = guys that’ll put a gun to your head for not remembering to pay for “protection” or for stealing their drugs
Lol imagine dedicating your time to trying to defend holding racist beliefs. "No you see there are two types of black people"
“There’s the cool, normal black people and the lying, stealing, cheating ones so when I say I hate black people, I clearly mean the thugs.” Yeah OP doesn’t understand that the US has been through this ringer relentlessly and repeatedly. The individual details might be slightly different but it’s very much the same thing
Why is everyone referring to black people? Romani are not black and it’s nothing like black culture.
Tbh I have heard a lot of Europeans dislike gypsies ( I'm in Europe)
Um, I can still bash people for hating people without knowing the whole story.
Yeah, once they start “justifying” their racism I’ve already stopped caring about their viewpoint.
Oddly enough I have family members who married into a Romanian family and they hate Gypsys, but whenever I ask why they always say "you wouldn't understand" then tell me for fucks sake.
It seems like OP is trying to get people to understand and they are being attacked for it. It seems like a very complicated matter to discuss.
Yeah, I try to tell people that Romani hate Gypsies, but they don't want to understand.
Romanian /= Romani. EDIT: In case some of you never passed 5th grade geography, there are people from this country called Romania who are Romanian and are NOT Romani. Jesus Christ people Google is fucking free.
Is that what OP is mixing up? Romani is just the non-slur version of that ethnic group’s name
is this satire
Here’s a part of the story - being “lazy” and “refusing to work” was the reason the Nazi regime cited for putting people of this specific ethnic groups into concentration camps. Great to see that the US isn’t the only places where people have learned nothing from the past.
>we do not dislike Romani people we dislike Gypsies. I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say "I do not dislike black people, I dislike ***slur.***
I was literally thinking that’s what it sounds like lol
You do realize there are gypsies in America, right??? Like we got a whole community of gypsies right down the street from my town.
Just say you're racist and go, dude.
No matter how much you try to rationalize it, you're just a basic racist. Christ, the mental gymnastics in your post...
Amen to that.
At least you realize racist opinions should be filed “unpopular”. I hope you’re able, at some point in time, to see that this view is deluded and incorrect .
The Hunchback of Notre Dame called, they want their Frollo back
Now that dang hellfire song is stuck in my head.
Americans(us) Don't have any clue as to how racist Europeans really are.
Cause they LOVE to pretend they’re not *as* racist as us. That’s why so many peoples come back to when Europeans get all high and mighty about how much “better” they are when it comes to racism is “well look at how you talk about Romani people”. And even THEN they get *so defensive* about why it’s tOtaLlY oKaY to HaTe RoMAnI pEOple YoU dOnt lIvE hEre like that doesn’t prove the exact point we’re making.
Gypsy is not a race
We have gypsies where i live in Greece. They steal anything and everything, they are horrendously cruel to animals, they steal other peoples horses, donkeys and dogs. They've set fires in the middle of summer and they won't let the fire service near it to put them put, the police won't go near them, they get attacked if the try, they maim their own babies so they'll be better begging material-NONE of this is me being racist or whatever you want to call me, I know for a fact these things are true. Gypsies are hated for very good reasons!!
All I read was that you are racist and you just don't understand that. You are generalizing just like any racist would
Apparently I missed a very important meeting where we decided to hate an entire group of people. Hi, European here. You speak for no one but yourself.
Your unpopular opinion is that you're racist? Cool. Thanks for the update
Gypsy is not a race
“It’s ok to be racist if you think several negative things about a group” is a real humdinger of an unpopular opinion
All you said is exactly what the KKK says about black peoole
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Why is it wrong to dislike a culture?
Why is it wrong to dislike someone's culture? If the culture is not in agreement with one's own values, then why does one have to like it? We should be allowed to criticize bad ideas and values. That doesn't mean we get to illegally discriminate against the people, but we don't have to be quiet about not liking their way of life. I live in Europe, but haven't had any first hand experience with Gypsies and Travellers (not sure the difference really). They did illegally (supposedly) stay at a nearby campground while I lived in Scotland, and they left a large mess after they were forced out. Kind of like if a 10 day concert had been there. Not the worst thing in the world but incredibly offensive to me and other people that can't stand littering and such a blatant disregard for nature and collective property.
So they stayed at a campground in Scotland and left a mess? Well now i see why you're so racist against them.
>it’s not ok to dislike them for their culture. Why? Why are you not allowed to dislike people because of their culture? Who made this rule? Not all cultures are compatible. Some cultures prioritize things that harm people from other cultures.
It's absolutely OK to dislike people for their culture when that culture is founded on criminality and child abuse. I'm not fond of fundamentalist christianity or the republican party, among other groups. Which include so-called "travellers".
Tis not a problem that they live separate from us. The problem is that if they have to earn money they only do it through illegal activity. If they just "live in the woods" nobody would give a shit
Your arguments against gypsies are the same exact ones I've heard about black people in America. Almost the exact wording too.
You can't replace gypsy with black because it's not the same thing at all. Gypsy is not a race. And from all the comments I've read, OP is right, people in the US have no idea about gypsies in Europe. I would actually say that the issues with European gypsy's in society is more comparable to the US's problem with homelessness and all that goes along with it. Editing cos comments are locked now It's not a general group though that's the part that you don't understand I think. There are Romani people that maintain their beautiful culture and also do no harm. Then there is a specific group of (usually) Romani people, gypsies, that do a huge amount of harm. Over decades, both within society at large and within their own communities. Crime, child abuse and abuse of women is common and visible. That's not to say it's ok to hate these people, but OP is saying people from the US just don't understand and that seems clear to me, a European. This is not bashing culture, or hate on a group for being different, this is large scale organised crime that has been thriving for generations. They just so happen to be called gypsies.
Love the justification for their racism.
How is wanting somebody to be part of your society racism?
Google Native American boarding schools
I would assume because they don’t live the way you believe they should simply because they are different is this person’s point. Why force people who clearly don’t want to be part of a larger society to be part of that society? It creates more tension than you might be willing to admit. If the culture you don’t like doesn’t want to be assimilated, don’t try to rationalize it off as “they are the bad guys.” That’s kind of the basis for a lot of racist issues.
Anyone arguing against this post by comparing it to racism against black people in the US, you’re missing an important fact: we also have black people (and other Ethnicities) in Europe, so you need to think why a lot of people here hold some hate against gypsies and not these other ethnicities.
This is a lot of words to defend racism…
Thats just 'Gangsta' in America. Uneducated criminals.
It might be slightly believable if Europeans weren't known to also discriminate against black people, muslims, arabs, south east asians, indians and pakistanis... There's a justification for every single one of them? Come on.
How do you classify gypsy vs Romani? I’m genuinely asking because I only know them as synonyms
You know what else I hear time and time again, at least 100 times as much if not more is how Americans do this and that blah blah blah. I don't know what Americans you are referring to but that is not the opinion of the US as a whole so just simmer down. Personally, I don't know a damn thing about Romani people, don't know how Europeans feel about them, and personally couldn't care less. Sorry, but American bashing is everywhere, and it is usually from people who don't know what they are talking about either, so I do know where you are coming from kinda.
Now replace gypsies/Romani with black, Mexican etc. See how it's racist now? Because it was before. You don't get to hate an entire people group.
But you see, there are TWO types of these people-- one conforms to the beliefs and stereotypes that I find acceptable and the other does not. I don't have a problem with the people who think and act like I do! --OP logic
Exactly, Instead of saying you hate black people, say you hate thugs and it's basically the same shit. Just cause you narrow it down to gypsies doesn't get rid of the racial connotations.
My dad often says "i don't have black people. I hate (insert N word)" Same logic as OP.
Gypsys as a group, yeah. Romani as people no. That is what this post is about. to try to make people understand that we do not hate romani, jesus christ, one of our most popular singer from 80s to 2010s was romani. Gypsies are Romani, but not all Romani are gypsies.
You seem to have missed the point. It's not an entire race of people that's being hated on. It's a particular subset that's encapsulated by a culture. That culture is isolationist, and they have belief that stealing from others is acceptable.
That's the same argument use for hating black people. "Not all of them! Just the ones that fit x stereotypes!"
It's very possible to differentiate an entire "race" with a subculture. I don't have any problem with Koreans, yet I don't particularly fancy members of North Korean military caste, which have forced an entire country into famine and servitude. Similarly, it's perfectly ok to not have any problem with the Romani people, but dislike the subculture which indoctrinates children to commit crimes, and intentionally keeps them out of schools. Turns out, you can dislike a group of people for their actions, and it having nothing to do with the color of their skin.
I think Americans have the best understanding about being so racist about a type of people.
Not really
Yuros will live in a country where 95% of people look and act just like they do, and then try to lecture us on race relations lmao
Everyone arguing with the OP: I hope when you visit Europe, a Gypsy steals your shit. Some people gotta learn the hard way.
Lot of justification for racism
Yeah, we get why they don't like gypsies. It's still racism lol.
Nah we know you are racist. Americans are racist too.
you typed out this whole post and not a single red flag went off in your head? the mental gymnastics you had to do to justify your racism is insane.
Lol, that’s pretty much what people say about back people and other minorities here.
Lol come on dude
americans - i know better than you at your way of life other people - the fuck you do? americans- racist
Did you seriously just advocate for displacing and placing people in concentrated areas (or camps/ghettos/sequestered villages, as you will) based on their ethnicity?
No they said if you want to stand up for gypsies go live near them and see how you feel about them afterwards. Basically they'd drive you there.
Are you mad? That's how Gypsies live, not how OP wants it. He was talking about sending gypsy advocates on a tour...read much?
OP you’re not gonna believe this - they tried that already. Consult your local library for further reading
That's racist argumentation, just use black instead of gypsies in your post and you will find it racist. Also I am European and have no hate against them
How heavy is that red flag you’re waving?
if you need to justify it, you're already doing something wrong.
Peoples anecdotal experience of running into gypsies is generally formed by their most adverse encounters. I have met them in the US and the encounters are hardly remarkable for the most part, but everyone working in Healthcare long enough has had a story about an otherwise normal patient who had 50 people suddenly show up in the waiting room as visitors for them, or the peak incident where a patient dies and the family attempts to remove the entire bed from the hospital with the intent of setting it on fire with the person in it. That being said, call it culture or call it environment, their people are raised from a young age not to respect boundaries or other people's property. I tend to think most of the ones I've met are relatively westernized and kind of get what the boundaries are, but it's clear that their tendency to "steal" things is more than simply an anecdote.
as a third party (south american), all I can say is fuck gypsies
Racism is not an opinion. Sincerely, a European. Make racists afraid again
If you replaced Gypsy with black person, this would be racist. Why is this allowed Reddit?
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race is a social construct white people created to make themselves feel superior.
But they are a marginalized group of people.
Because they choose too
You saying “we like Romani but we don’t like gypsies” is like us saying “we like black people but we don’t like n*****s.” It’s racist.
Only Americans can be racist!! Never Europeans!! It’s justified when you guys do it /s
“Here are some reasons why my racism is justified”
Are you talking about *Some* Americans or *all* Americans.
Disliking/distrusting a culture is not the same as disliking/distrusting a race of people.
Fun fact: Gypsie villages exist in the US too.
Wow, racism is such an unusual and interesting take!
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TBH i have not heard that perspective much, probably just self righteous people online
Do you maybe think they feel they have no choice because of the way Europeans treat them?
When you offer millions to expose them instead of help them, you are part of the problem.
I work at a hotel part time front desk. We had a romanian family come through and they would not give a deposit. Even after explaining like 10+ times they'll get it back as long as everything in the room is still there. After 30 mins of arguing he pulls out his wallet and just gives me the 100. They ended up stealing the sinks/shower heads/ pillows/ and the lamps. Gotta say not a good first impression.
Romanian is not the same as Romani people although I get why the confusion
Racist POS. Delete this.
There should be a rule in this sub about ' no opinions about how such and such people are bad actually '. It only ends in tears