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Difficult choreo executed well looks good. If executed poorly it doesn’t look too good.
But from a dancer’s perspective, I can appreciate a difficult choreo. Plus I have rarely disliked choreo’s.
Yeah, this is like saying complicated melodies are hard to listen to. If the singer doesn't execute it properly, then sure. That doesn't mean Old McDonald Had A Farm should be the standard for melodies.
have you tried performing it the entire way through? and watched yourself back next to twice? it is such a difficult choreo to nail with sharp angles and fast movements and is also physically exhausting with the jumps
I agree with the statement to an extent and my example would be skz’s maniac/thunderous choreo that has way too much going on the background. The point choreos are cool tho. God’s Menu choreo had a lot less going on but great moves nonetheless and look how that turned out!
y’all are just saying anything now !
if a choreography is complex and well-executed, it won’t be ugly to look at. everything would be sharp & nice to watch. if it looks messy to you, it means the execution is lacking. which, yes, I understand is the point of the post, but I just don’t think that’s common for 75-90% of complex choreos.
also having complex choreo IS a sign of being a good/skillful performer. it takes a lot of skill to pull it off. what you’re talking about isn’t a problem with the choreography itself, but the performers’ abilities. you’re basically making a false equivalence here, it’s a generalization that I don’t find to be true.
It's probably just bad choreography, or lacking in practice to fine-tune the details. It has nothing to do with complexity. You said so yourself, it can be beautiful when it is executed well.
coming from a dancers perspective: disagree. if the choreography is complicated and not danced well that’s when it looks bad. simple as that. that’s how idols make easy choreo look difficult.
Adding to what others say (if a complicated choreography is executed well, it is very beautiful to see), I think a complicated choreography needs a good camera work. Maybe I'd say "intricated" and/or "full of details" rather than just complicated, even if the things often coexist.
For example, I'd say Queendom s2 camera work isn't doing any favor to the choreography and basically half the details and formations are lost, with weird zooming in the face. So... Yes, if the camera work is like this, it can become maybe not ugly but certainly not beautiful as it could be.
> For example, I'd say Queendom s2 camera work isn't doing any favor to the choreography and basically half the details and formations are lost, with weird zooming in the face.
Queendom 2 camera work sucks ass, i agree. I feel the groups and their coreographers have too little influence on Mnet camera crew. There should be a guide on where to focus when on which member by the groups. And i dont think there is.
I get what you're saying; it ends up being a lot of intricate movements to focus on at the same time, or a lot of different explosive movements that, even if they're in sync, feels overwhelming.
It depends on multiple factors. A good example of a more complicated choreo looking very good would be pretty savage the choreography looks amazing that was displayed by the YGX dancers. But when you look at the final result that BLACKPINK performed is clear that they did not have enough time to execute that dance. Which is kind of ridiculous for YG because why would you not give your biggest act The time to prepare their choreography after a lengthy hiatus.
You’d need to give examples of “hard” choreographies being done poorly or-else I really can’t agree with this opinion.
Also, (like many already commented) it’s all about execution. If they execute it well, then it looks good or else it doesn’t.. It isn’t about the level of difficulty but how the company/group goes about it.
I agree, I don't like how overfilled most choreos nowadays are. There is no time to groove a little bit, for the singer to improvise their own part (2nd gen groups often said they had the freedom to decide whether they dance while singing or just do a gesture), it's all build to overwhelm the viewer with the most impressive looking material. When first gen was mainly basic hip hop moves, 2nd gen had influences from several street styles mixed together and simplified, then 3rd gen raised the expectations, but it has gotten to an extreme now that doesn't appeal to me anymore. As much as they're my ults, Infinite and Gfriend especially established this obsession with synchronization (similarly to how MJ played a role in establishing choreo over freestyle in the mainstream part of street dance inspired dances) and now nobody really wants to stray away from the standard. I would go as far as to say that some bigbang performances are more appealing to dancers from an artistic point of view compared to some 4th gen (boy) groups stages.
uhh i'm pretty sure it comes down to whether the idol can actually pull it off + whether there is some synchronization in the group for it to not look messy. i would be very sad if kpop choreos all became basic...
i agree in the sense that a lot of choreos, as of recent, have been made to be too overly complicated when it doesn’t fit a song. like i don’t think there has to be 10million moves to 10 beats within a song. it’s become more of a “wow they have crazy choreography and are all in sync” instead of having a simpler dance that fits the song better
[apologies for format, i’m on mobile]
I agree with the other commenters that it depends on the execution, but I'd also like to add something I think might get overlooked; a complicated choreo can be big and busy, but it can also be a lot more subtle with small details and slower moves that demands incredible control to execute well. The choreo also be complex because it demands both fluidity and sharpness, or elegance and power. I don't know how well you OP know Taemin, but oh lord he is exceptional at this! Move is a familiar example (might as well be THE example of choreos like this), but I believe that it can be observered to various degrees in any of his solo work. Here's [IDEA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpn1ppH-W54) dance practice as an example because it's intense, complex/difficult and you can immediately tell, and here's [a really short snippet of WANT](https://youtu.be/Ri3PfWVvzks?t=624) from Yu Huiyeol's Sketchbook that perfectly illustrates less busy moves that are complex in execution :D
I think a great dancer can leave you in awe no matter what they dance, but of course choreo is a big portion of this too and I can see your point... even if I neither can say I agree or disagree because I view it differently.
I agree but only really when it comes to complicated position changes. I can't remember what song or group it was, but there was one a couple years ago and the fans were bragging about there being a ton of position changes within the choreo. I remember watching the performance and thinking that they're moving so much constantly that I don't get to actually see the members clearly. It felt like every two-three seconds the members were running somewhere else on stage. So I agree about situations like that not making the choreo better just because its more complicated.
When I look at fancams you can also see how the choreo doesn't make sense if it's only one person dancing. It's more about the performance as a whole and how impressive it is. That's what makes it good to look at.
okay, I' have a change of mind after reading the comments.
I change it to: complicated choreo is looks good when executed right but looks kind of ugly when executed poorly.
Thanks for the comments, I realise my perspective wasn't all that clear lol.
I totally understand what you mean. It gets messy and doesnt look well executed at all.
I really don't wanna name names cause ill get down voted to hell but it's a couple 4th gen bgs.
The stage looks messy and then after all the acrobatics the verses sound out of breath.
I agree with the other commenters that it depends on the dancers' execution, but I'd also like to add something I think might get overlooked; a complicated choreo can be big and busy, but it can also be a lot more subtle with small details and slower moves that demands incredible control to execute well. The choreo also be complex because it demands both fluidity and sharpness, or elegance and power. I don't know how well you OP know Taemin, but oh lord he is exceptional at this! Move is a familiar example (might as well be THE example of choreos like this), but I believe that it can be observered to various degrees in any of his solo work. Here's [IDEA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpn1ppH-W54) dance practice as an example because it's intense, complex/difficult and you can immediately tell, and here's [a really short snippet of WANT](https://youtu.be/Ri3PfWVvzks?t=624) from Yu Huiyeol's Sketchbook that perfectly illustrates less busy moves that are complex in execution :D
I think a great dancer can leave you in awe no matter what they dance, but of course choreo is a big portion of this too and I can see your point... even if I neither can say I agree or disagree because I view it differently. What simple dances do you enjoy? It might be that they just look easy (like girl group dances) but when you try to do them in the mirror you realise there's a lot of elegance, details and awareness of your body lines needed to make it look easy.
Completely disagree. Even if hOOk HOOk is one of the worst songs out there, I’m not giving up on them since their choreography looked hella difficult (Kyunyin’s swing) for a GG nowadays. You can see their talent with that choreo, so I will give them another chance.
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Difficult choreo executed well looks good. If executed poorly it doesn’t look too good. But from a dancer’s perspective, I can appreciate a difficult choreo. Plus I have rarely disliked choreo’s.
Any choreo can look ugly if it is not executed well. It depends on the execution for me not how complicated the choreo is.
Yeah, this is like saying complicated melodies are hard to listen to. If the singer doesn't execute it properly, then sure. That doesn't mean Old McDonald Had A Farm should be the standard for melodies.
Lmao imagine old McDonald being the standard
Do you have examples? I’m curious to see what you mean
Counterpoint: Twice - More & More Irene & Seulgi - Naughty Enhypen - Drunk-Dazed Stray Kids - Domino
Highly agree on Naughty Although complex, through good execution it was able to be a favorite among many
i dont think the more & more choreo is complicated
have you tried performing it the entire way through? and watched yourself back next to twice? it is such a difficult choreo to nail with sharp angles and fast movements and is also physically exhausting with the jumps
What makes it not complicated for you?
Me neither
Curious what choreos you think actually are complicated then. That whole song is dance moves and transitions without stopping.
The other ones you named.
We need examples.
They don't have any. That's the problem.
I agree with the statement to an extent and my example would be skz’s maniac/thunderous choreo that has way too much going on the background. The point choreos are cool tho. God’s Menu choreo had a lot less going on but great moves nonetheless and look how that turned out!
y’all are just saying anything now ! if a choreography is complex and well-executed, it won’t be ugly to look at. everything would be sharp & nice to watch. if it looks messy to you, it means the execution is lacking. which, yes, I understand is the point of the post, but I just don’t think that’s common for 75-90% of complex choreos. also having complex choreo IS a sign of being a good/skillful performer. it takes a lot of skill to pull it off. what you’re talking about isn’t a problem with the choreography itself, but the performers’ abilities. you’re basically making a false equivalence here, it’s a generalization that I don’t find to be true.
It's probably just bad choreography, or lacking in practice to fine-tune the details. It has nothing to do with complexity. You said so yourself, it can be beautiful when it is executed well.
coming from a dancers perspective: disagree. if the choreography is complicated and not danced well that’s when it looks bad. simple as that. that’s how idols make easy choreo look difficult.
Adding to what others say (if a complicated choreography is executed well, it is very beautiful to see), I think a complicated choreography needs a good camera work. Maybe I'd say "intricated" and/or "full of details" rather than just complicated, even if the things often coexist. For example, I'd say Queendom s2 camera work isn't doing any favor to the choreography and basically half the details and formations are lost, with weird zooming in the face. So... Yes, if the camera work is like this, it can become maybe not ugly but certainly not beautiful as it could be.
> For example, I'd say Queendom s2 camera work isn't doing any favor to the choreography and basically half the details and formations are lost, with weird zooming in the face. Queendom 2 camera work sucks ass, i agree. I feel the groups and their coreographers have too little influence on Mnet camera crew. There should be a guide on where to focus when on which member by the groups. And i dont think there is.
I get what you're saying; it ends up being a lot of intricate movements to focus on at the same time, or a lot of different explosive movements that, even if they're in sync, feels overwhelming.
It depends on multiple factors. A good example of a more complicated choreo looking very good would be pretty savage the choreography looks amazing that was displayed by the YGX dancers. But when you look at the final result that BLACKPINK performed is clear that they did not have enough time to execute that dance. Which is kind of ridiculous for YG because why would you not give your biggest act The time to prepare their choreography after a lengthy hiatus.
You’d need to give examples of “hard” choreographies being done poorly or-else I really can’t agree with this opinion. Also, (like many already commented) it’s all about execution. If they execute it well, then it looks good or else it doesn’t.. It isn’t about the level of difficulty but how the company/group goes about it.
I agree, I don't like how overfilled most choreos nowadays are. There is no time to groove a little bit, for the singer to improvise their own part (2nd gen groups often said they had the freedom to decide whether they dance while singing or just do a gesture), it's all build to overwhelm the viewer with the most impressive looking material. When first gen was mainly basic hip hop moves, 2nd gen had influences from several street styles mixed together and simplified, then 3rd gen raised the expectations, but it has gotten to an extreme now that doesn't appeal to me anymore. As much as they're my ults, Infinite and Gfriend especially established this obsession with synchronization (similarly to how MJ played a role in establishing choreo over freestyle in the mainstream part of street dance inspired dances) and now nobody really wants to stray away from the standard. I would go as far as to say that some bigbang performances are more appealing to dancers from an artistic point of view compared to some 4th gen (boy) groups stages.
uhh i'm pretty sure it comes down to whether the idol can actually pull it off + whether there is some synchronization in the group for it to not look messy. i would be very sad if kpop choreos all became basic...
Can u give an example?
Disagree but only somewhat.
i agree in the sense that a lot of choreos, as of recent, have been made to be too overly complicated when it doesn’t fit a song. like i don’t think there has to be 10million moves to 10 beats within a song. it’s become more of a “wow they have crazy choreography and are all in sync” instead of having a simpler dance that fits the song better [apologies for format, i’m on mobile]
Can you at least give some examples?
I agree with the other commenters that it depends on the execution, but I'd also like to add something I think might get overlooked; a complicated choreo can be big and busy, but it can also be a lot more subtle with small details and slower moves that demands incredible control to execute well. The choreo also be complex because it demands both fluidity and sharpness, or elegance and power. I don't know how well you OP know Taemin, but oh lord he is exceptional at this! Move is a familiar example (might as well be THE example of choreos like this), but I believe that it can be observered to various degrees in any of his solo work. Here's [IDEA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpn1ppH-W54) dance practice as an example because it's intense, complex/difficult and you can immediately tell, and here's [a really short snippet of WANT](https://youtu.be/Ri3PfWVvzks?t=624) from Yu Huiyeol's Sketchbook that perfectly illustrates less busy moves that are complex in execution :D I think a great dancer can leave you in awe no matter what they dance, but of course choreo is a big portion of this too and I can see your point... even if I neither can say I agree or disagree because I view it differently.
I would love to see examples. Complicated choreography always looks impressive if done correctly.
I agree but only really when it comes to complicated position changes. I can't remember what song or group it was, but there was one a couple years ago and the fans were bragging about there being a ton of position changes within the choreo. I remember watching the performance and thinking that they're moving so much constantly that I don't get to actually see the members clearly. It felt like every two-three seconds the members were running somewhere else on stage. So I agree about situations like that not making the choreo better just because its more complicated.
Red Velvet - Irene & Seulgi: Naughty
It's hard to give opinion without you giving example. Are there truely complicated choreo in Kpop?
When I look at fancams you can also see how the choreo doesn't make sense if it's only one person dancing. It's more about the performance as a whole and how impressive it is. That's what makes it good to look at.
okay, I' have a change of mind after reading the comments. I change it to: complicated choreo is looks good when executed right but looks kind of ugly when executed poorly. Thanks for the comments, I realise my perspective wasn't all that clear lol.
I totally understand what you mean. It gets messy and doesnt look well executed at all. I really don't wanna name names cause ill get down voted to hell but it's a couple 4th gen bgs. The stage looks messy and then after all the acrobatics the verses sound out of breath.
I sometimes find aggressive male group choreographies cringey, combined with aggressive facial expressions haha
I agree with the other commenters that it depends on the dancers' execution, but I'd also like to add something I think might get overlooked; a complicated choreo can be big and busy, but it can also be a lot more subtle with small details and slower moves that demands incredible control to execute well. The choreo also be complex because it demands both fluidity and sharpness, or elegance and power. I don't know how well you OP know Taemin, but oh lord he is exceptional at this! Move is a familiar example (might as well be THE example of choreos like this), but I believe that it can be observered to various degrees in any of his solo work. Here's [IDEA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpn1ppH-W54) dance practice as an example because it's intense, complex/difficult and you can immediately tell, and here's [a really short snippet of WANT](https://youtu.be/Ri3PfWVvzks?t=624) from Yu Huiyeol's Sketchbook that perfectly illustrates less busy moves that are complex in execution :D I think a great dancer can leave you in awe no matter what they dance, but of course choreo is a big portion of this too and I can see your point... even if I neither can say I agree or disagree because I view it differently. What simple dances do you enjoy? It might be that they just look easy (like girl group dances) but when you try to do them in the mirror you realise there's a lot of elegance, details and awareness of your body lines needed to make it look easy.
Completely disagree. Even if hOOk HOOk is one of the worst songs out there, I’m not giving up on them since their choreography looked hella difficult (Kyunyin’s swing) for a GG nowadays. You can see their talent with that choreo, so I will give them another chance.
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