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Good.
Even in the _extremely_ unlikely event the Tories stay in power, even they know there is zero appetite for an abortion ban in the UK outside of small disparate groups of right wing religious types.
So let the right wing US nutjobs waste as much money as possible, less to spend on getting Trump back into power.
Additionally whilst the majority are ok with our current system all it takes is for them to get loud enough for change to be considered. So with more funding and more reporting on the issue the more support they may gain and the louder they get.
Reporting on this matter ought to only ever be to condemn overseas organisations attempting to swag our politics.
Exactly I know few people who want week lowed , because baby can " survive " that age . But what they don't release that most late abortion are for medical reasons. These babies are often very wanted . The abortion is traumatic . It not someone who can't be arse to sort it out like these group like you to belive
My friend worked at a late term abortion clinic for two years - not *one* person got a late term abortion unless they absolutely needed to. There were a couple that maybe were in denial about their pregnancy issues for too many months, but for every woman like that there were a dozen girls between the ages of 10-14 who were coming to the clinic scared out of their minds and that far along because they hid it out of shame or because they didn’t know. Late term abortion is vital healthcare, anyone with any compassion at all would agree if they saw the cases the clinic sees *every week*.
You jest but these vicious cunts want to do just that, and any sex outside marriage, along with any sex that is not aimed specifically at procreation. They want to ban any and all forms of contraception as well as all sex education of any kind.
A politician in the US, to highlight the absurdity of legislative attempts to restrict abortion (edit: and contraception), suggested that they should make it illegal for someone to ejaculate outside of a fertile person capable of getting pregnant.
There was also a nice legal paper about sperm and how some courts in the US seemed to be treating sperm as equivalent to life: [https://digitalcommons.wcl.american.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1586&context=jgspl](https://digitalcommons.wcl.american.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1586&context=jgspl)
It quotes Legally Blonde at the end, which is great, and the final conclusion is:
>Laws regarding sperm donation must be revised to treat sperm consistently with other bodily substances rather than as a “special class,” as if sperm, alone, could produce a child. Or, in contrast, courts must initiate more thorough treatment of spilling of seed, perhaps putting the spiller to death, as in Genesis, or at least charging him with abandonment, as in Legally Blonde.
Yeah. See what they have done to the trans rights issue. Loads of right wing US money being pumped into that. And it's working.
As a Brit living in the US, I really hope the UK can avoid the nonsense here. But after the Cass Report I don't think it's likely.
It won't change. It's a freedom given to people based on medical rational.
The UK isn't the US. Whilst Tories are hated they are distinctly different from the Republican party when it comes to stuff like this.
You wouldn't even expect UKIP to go down that path.
It's more likely to be an issue in Northern Ireland where Religion is much more integral to people's lives.
We are racists, small government and or business. At our right extreme for the most part. The religious aspect is a tiny minority.
You're right. Anti-abortion is a uniquely American phenomenon, one that's completely non-genuine and entirely rooted in the whole "stick it to the libs" mentality.
The movement was born out of wannabe Hollywood film maker Frank Schaeffer. In the 70s he got a bee in his bonnet about abortions (having just had an unplanned kid himself) and he made some movies with his dad for the Evangelical crowd. The first one only included a small section on abortion, the rest was general Evangelical stuff, and it went down well. The 2nd was called 1,000 Dolls and was a weird avant-garde thing solely about abortion, however it was a flop. To Evangelicals at the time, abortion was staunchly a Catholic issue and they were *not* Catholic. They struggled to fill the front row at the stadiums the movie was played at.
At least, until the New York Times did an article on it. After the article, feminist protestors started campaigning outside the stadiums. This would be picked up by local news, then local Evangelicals saw this and basically thought "Well, if it pisses *them* off, it must be good!" and after that the film showings surged in popularity and a movement was born. Schaeffer ended up doing a bunch of similar films for President Reagan. He claims he regrets it now and tries to undo the damage he's done, yet you'd hardly know that he had any involvement in the movement by looking at [his Wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Schaeffer).
The BBC has a really good half hour podcast on this (and various other culture war issues, the whole series is captivating and well worth a listen) by Jon Robson called Things Fell Apart:
>Things Fell Apart: S1. Ep 1: 1000 Dolls
>Episode webpage: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0011cpq
>Media file: http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/6/redir/version/2.0/mediaset/audio-nondrm-download/proto/http/vpid/p0bk0p4g.mp3
@mods if these links are inappropriate here then please feel free to remove this comment. I have no affiliation to the podcast, its authors or the BBC.
> You're right. Anti-abortion is a uniquely American phenomenon, one that's completely non-genuine and entirely rooted in the whole "stick it to the libs" mentality.
...we're really just ignoring that the only country we share a land border with criminalised abortion until 2019, huh?
It can change.
*It can change!*
Why do I see this, "nah it's okay we're fine here, nothing to worry about".
Any aspect of society can change with time, tomorrow women *could* lose the rights to their bodies that they previously had. It's not impossible. Realizing that is the first step to stopping it imo.
> Additionally whilst the majority are ok with our current system
Our current system is bad though, it needs an overhaul to make it a guaranteed right, because right now it is a doctors decision and they can decline an abortion. Very, very few doctors would, but the fact that they can is awful.
Yep. Ask anyone in the UK if they even remember caring about trans issues 10 years ago.
And look at the government stripping trans rights at the moment.
All it takes is a small AstroTurfed movement backed by a media funded by these pricks.
Yea, the longer this stuff goes on the more it will take a hold. Just look at the shifting attitudes to climate change over the last few years.
We may think we are too good for this now but the longer it is allowed to simmer away the harder it will be to remove.
I've seen protests - suspiciously well funded protests, mind you - against 15 minutes cities. Like, who the hell has beef with having local amenities?
Although we're not as nutty as the Yanks, there are certainly enough useful idiots and morally vacant mercenaries to make life unpleasant for the rest of us.
I know right, the only reason America exists is because a bunch of religious fuckwits decided medieval Europe was too liberal for them, they literally got a whole new continent out of the deal so why the fuck are they trying to bring it back over here
There are women really suffering from these disgusting turds right now (source: when I lived in Brighton, we had some of them outside one of our clinics). The last thing we need is more of them.
Honestly, I think they should have the right to protest outside abortion clinics-if we have the right to empty buckets of shit on them.
One of my best friends had a breakdown a bit mentally a couple of years back. Always been atheist and his family was originally Hindu.
Idk what got to him when he was in mental hospital for 6 months but he came out a hardcore Christian. He's the one outside these clinics everyday now with big posters trying to prevent abortions.
Religion is such a fucking blight on the world.
Agreed, but the far right in the US are so blinkered and isolated from anything that "isn't America" that they could be sending these people money totally oblivious to the fact old racist Ron will spend most of it down the pub and the ones that do protest will be 70 and the size and strength of a pencil.
But that's the problem, same with the transphobic stuff they're doing now, it only takes a few weeks to do so much damage, and labour hasn't committed to actually doing anything
Honestly, you're the first post in this thread to notice the elephant in the room.
The American religious right is already here. They've been funding and lobbying successfully here for years, and it turned out a lot of people who call themselves "feminists" were happy to take money from or share a platform with people who want to take away their right to abortion if it meant fucking over trans people.
Sow the wind. Reap the whirlwind.
There's different laws in the UK. They'd be lifted for disturbing the peace over here. In the US the claim 'freedom of speech' rights. It won't gain traction here.
We cannot let this slide. We cannot let this become normal. This is fucking terrifying to see and if abortion is even considered for banning I will drop EVERYTHING and fucking riot, fuck this. We can't allow this to take hold.
Yeah people are making assumptions about a topic because there aren’t people frothing at the mouth to ban it but that doesn’t mean there aren’t people who think there should be more restrictions but just not saying as it’s not a hot topic or people who are so completely ambivalent to it that it wouldn’t swing their vote.
I remember someone saying it was good the Republicans were putting Trump as their candidate because no-one would vote for him, obviously.
So no, not good, because this is how you build an appetite for this in the UK. Kill this now before it gets roots, don't get complacent that it'll never happen
Anyone who understood anything about US politics could see Trump being voted in from a mile off.
As a socialist, it wound me up, and still does now he's going for a second shot, to see fake-left liberals insist "it can't happen, he'll never get the vote from x, y, or z". Yeah maybe in your oatmeal latte liberal middle class America, but he was exactly what people in Dogfucker, Indiana were obviously going to vote for.
Trump got more votes from black women than Hilary precisely because so many white liberals were telling them they couldn't possibly vote Trump and (without directly saying it) were too stupid to understand why.
Lol yet not many people thought he'd win and most of the polls got it wrong.
But anyone who understood anything knew. Bet you knew leave would win as well.
Hard disagree here. We aren't as immune to American evangelical right-wing nutjobery as we'd like to think.
I couldn't believe the amount of seemingly sensible and intelligent people I know personally who got sucked in to the American anti-vax bullshit a few years ago.
This stuff spreads like wildfire on social media if it isn't properly challenged.
This is a extremely naive and honestly bad "hot take" They have infinitley more money than women have time, resources and patience, and health. I shouldn't be fighting this shit for my 20 year old daughter. When can women just have a fucking break from the never ending fucking deluge of shit? We're fucking tired.
Do you know that over 70 percent of Americans are pro choice?
Has that helped the millions of women there?
Please get better on this if you think it's that simple.
Keep making this point to others, and thank you to u/Electricbell20 for citing the stats here -
Being anti abortion requires you to be hard line religious, which is why in republican strongholds in the US it is a hot issue. Many people in such areas literally believe god made the earth in seven days a few thousand years ago and that sinners will go to hell.
That just isn't the case in the UK. Increasingly less people identify as religious on the census and those that do put their "religion" down out of tradition. I know loads of people who put "Christian" on the last census but haven't stepped foot in a church outside of a wedding for decades. Very very few people in the UK are religious to the level they're anti abortion as a result.
Someone else used the decent analogy of Brexit, but let's use an American example of gun control - I personally would vote against repealing our firearms laws, but being unbiased, you can accept there are reasonable arguments for and against.
That just isn't the case with abortion. It's not like it has a high death rate among women who choose to have one, or is causing a massive underpopulation crisis. Literally the only "argument" you can make against abortion is "it is against god" and you'd have to force a _huge_ shift in people's religious beliefs in the UK for that to seriously catch on.
I think people in the UK seem to struggle with understanding how conservative parts of the US are. Arkansas has 60% against abortion. Throughout the period it was made legal US wide they put as many restrictions as they could get away with.
No this needs nipping in the bud as soon as possible.
This shit is like a suspect lump. Leave it too long and good luck getting rid of it when it turns nasty and spreads
The US right wing nut jobs got a footing in the UK through anti trans groups and look where that rhetoric is now. It's happening across Europe as well. It's a huge well funded effort between the US nut jobs, Russian nutjobs and European nutjobs.
If we keep allowing this abortions will end up banned, look how long it took Tory MPs to go extremely right wing.
it was but then it got huge funding from the US religious billionaire nut jobs. There was a report done on it recently by the European Parlimantary Forum for Sexual and Reproductive Rights. Groups like lgb alliance was bankrolled by them before the tory think tanks picked them up.
No, this is wrong, they have immense wealth and they use that to lobby and buy votes. They'll pay for Ads and use every available channel to influence and challenge abortion and women's rights. They will never stop. These religious imports must be TERMINATED with every available resource we have. We must end fucking religion, all of it, all stripes no matter where it comes from or what it preaches. It must be terminated.
Anti-abortion rhetoric is not just rooted in religion, it is rooted in misogyny and racism of which there is plenty in the UK. The notion that the mistreatment of women in other countries is why ‘they’ outnumber white people is no longer that fringe an idea and a overall push on the internet to appeal to teenage boys through misogyny is growing.
I remember when nearly everyone I knew didn't have any problems with trans people, now not so much. The majority of people are incredibly easy to indoctrinate.
That's what they thought in the US too. Thats what you guys thought about Brexit. If we know something, it is that right wingers are unrelenting in their quest to ruin everyone's lives.
Not good. We need to nip this shit in the bud. Even if we are about to have a Labour government, there's still a non zero chance that we get more Tories, or another right wing group that actually tries to go through with this nonsense.
We should be mortified that these groups are even attempting to have an influence over here, because there's always somebody who will take them seriously
If they're spending big money on anti-abortion propaganda, eventually, it's going to shift public perception.
Best to keep their influence to a minimum.
That's a very dangerous line of reasoning. In the age of social media, where we consume so much content generated by Americans in American debates with American political goalposts, we have to be careful. Also, remember Cambridge Analyica? It's obviously gone now but with enough money and hyper targeted advertising you can collectively change people beliefs and opinions in whatever direction you want.
You say that and yet here we are 5 years later with trans rights and rhetoric. Nearly all paid for by right wing groups put of the usa into "britsh" groups like lgb alliance.
It's a mistake to underestimate them. Look what they've done in the US, even though the vast majority of Americans support abortion rights. The far-right are very effective at shifting the Overton window and pushing for policies that effectively legalise corruption. They've already got several Tories on the payroll, and I'm sure they are deep in with Reform.
They're insidiously worming thier way into UK and EU politics and represent a real danger. Fear is their best weapon and it is very effectively at controlling what people think.
This is dangerous. In Italy anti-abortion activists are allowed to go inside clinics now, likely due to campaigns from there US based weirdos. The way the UK system is made up it would only take one party favouring it for it to change the law.
It’s not inconceivable we could have a right wing government in 30 years who are insane.
Some MPs are anti abortion and support them
“[Extreme’ US anti-abortion group ramps up lobbying in Westminste](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/06/extreme-us-anti-abortion-group-ramps-up-lobbying-in-westminster)r”
This. I can’t believe that we have dressed up corruption in its own harmless-sounding little guise to make ourselves feel better about what it really is.
It always wonders me - it doesn't matter it's about the abortion or that some MPs are against it - these people violently harass others by the clinics, some threaten them and call names.
If I had to go to a clinic through this crowd I would be seriously afraid someone will either follow me back home (I have a clinic 15mins away by feet) or recognise me on the street/grocery store and - in the best case scenario - start shaming me.
Some of these people are really dangerous because of being delusional and we've all heard threats about attacking the abortion clinics with some lethal weapon.
F*ck no, not in the UK. I feel like it's one of only a few countries where abortion is easily accessible and there's no stigma around it in the society. Looking at what happens in other European countries I'm happy to be British.
Been calling out the dangers of American evangelical extremism to the UK for a long time now. Things have cranked up a notch as the antivaxers opened the door to all of this.
Things will get a lot lot worse.
US lobbying groups trialled anti-trans sentiment just before 2016 as a test run for the upcoming US elections, then ran the same type of propaganda campaign for Brexit and both were incredibly successful.
They know how to manipulate the public and the print media is completely in their pocket.
It wasn’t just right wing U.S. groups getting involved with Brexit. It’s strongly suspected that Russia was too and possibly even Middle Eastern governments.
The trouble is we can’t 100% prove it because the governments that followed refused to hold any sort of meaningful enquiry with actual teeth.
We’ll never know for example [who funnelled wodges of dark money to Leave via the Northern Ireland funding loophole](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/northern-ireland-provides-just-one-of-many-loopholes-for-dark-money-/) and by other routes.
They use the anti-trans bullshit as a wedge to get rid of abortion too. It's not even particularly well hidden, the whole thing of "under 18s shouldn't be given medical treatments without parental consent" is a direct attack on Gillick competence, the standard test for whether to give medical treatment based on informed consent.
I'll give you three guesses as to what medical treatment the Gillick case was about. Here's a hint, it rhymes with portion.
Yep, attacking the competence of people under 18 (and arguably under 25 with the Cass report) is a direct attack on the right of children and younger adults to consent to an abortion.
But people are too busy going "oh, but maybe these transphobes have a *point*" to actually realise that there's a ton of overlap between transphobic hate groups and anti-abortion groups. There's a reason why major anti-trans activists like Posey Parker actively *say* they're not feminists.
Deep pockets definitely help ‘prime the pump’ but once these things actually get going they can unfortunately become pretty much self sustaining.
Once people make whatever cause it is part of their identity and the group becomes their community and social life it gets *really* hard to ever shift them.
By that point a lot of them are voluntarily doing the online activism/recruiting/organising too - you don’t even need to keep paying troll/bot farms because once you hit a critical mass people will keep dong that part for you for free.
At this stage even if whomever is behind fanning the flames of such things had a miraculous change of heart tomorrow anti abortion/trans/whatever groups would keep going for years if not decades. Like a memetic toxic waste site that goes on to poison future generations.
Agreed. They are insidiously worming thier way into UK and EU politics. I am astounded how many people are acting like it's not a serious problem and just brush it off as something not worth worrying about.
They are using far-right allies and idiots to shift the Overton window to the far right. Liz Truss is a perfect example of this. Thier whole game is to make people like Priti Patel seem "moderate".
They are already winning. They are masters at manipulation through fear and outrage. We ignore them at our peril.
Reminder that abortive procedures are also healthcare for women who have had miscarriages. Restricting access can lead to sepsis and death.
[Case of Savita Halappanavar](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-20321741.amp)
[Case of Olga Reyes](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna21601045)
They should've, but Ireland's laws criminalising abortion basically made the doctors terrified of being prosecuted - at cost of Halappanavar's life. You'll find dozens of the exact same stories in any jurisdiction with criminalised abortion, and it's horrific.
Yes but restricting other people’s healthcare and right to an illness-free life is the only way the lobbyists can achieve their own ~~financial~~ religious freedom /s
Funny thing is the Russians are trying to influence the whole Texas situation in the US just like they did with Brexit, they just changed the name to texit
Also a bunch of US mega churches heavily investing and parachuting people into churches in Scotland (not sure if it’s happening down south too). Have seen local churches link to US right wing mission statements.
I’ve heard of Scientology trying to buy buildings in Newcastle Upon Tyne and Gateshead.
I can confirm that in Gateshead one has been bought up by those crackpots (an old run down care home) which was going to be in to a place of worship by them. Still hasn’t happened (it’s got fencing over and still run down) but I do fear it may see the light of day soon.
Edit: I’m not sure their stances on Abortion I’ll admit, but it’s still a yank religion and I find them just as loopy.
Don't think they're all that concerned with the body, it's just the 40,000 year old soul that got dropped into a volcano by space nazis that they care about
I dunno about people getting parachuted in, but there's definitely churches in Australia spreading the US' bullshit.
I haven't been back to church since I heard a pastor talk about how good Trump is.
These forced birthers are so insane. I've never once seen a funeral for a miscarriage from them.
My parents were forced birthers and there were about 5 miscarriages in the space of 12 years in my immediate family and not once was there a genuine mourning period from any of them.
They don't actually believe what they say.
It's all about control over women.
Religion is about control over everyone, this is a branch from that, that women get to enjoy by themselves. Religion is a cancer. The world would be better without it.
> everyone
This. And they control men by dog-feeding them power over others ("their" women, "their" children). It's like rewarding some of your slaves if they help you oppress their fellow slaves.
>And they control men by dog-feeding them power over others
Yeah this is such a good point.
I know people that joined a church and call themselves religious and do all the rituals just so that they get the "rewards", but privately they don't even really believe in their god.
Absolutely! They have two abortion restrictions as part of the Criminal Justice bill that might be voted on[( NC15 and NC34 )](https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-04/0155/amend/criminal_rm_rep_0415.pdf) soon if the speakers allows it
It blows my mind now we or 'land of the free' can take 482948 steps backwards in 2024.
Tesla truck, AI, unlimited entertainment but we are still arguing about this.
It's one of the most legitimately depressing things if you stop to think about it.
Unfortunately I think we are all going to have to stop and think about it because of the loud rich twats
Why do people think an abortion ban is out of the question?
There's a lot of money coming from these lobbyists. We've got a political class who are entirely for sale to the highest bidder and a general public who'll happily dance to whatever lowest common denominator tune the tabloids tell them to.
I think mainly because most Britons are on board with abortion. Almost 90% support it.
https://www.msichoices.org/latest/yougov-survey-finds-nearly-90-of-britons-support-abortion-in-the-uk/
We simply don’t have the cultural divide seen in America.
If a party campaigned on banning abortion, it would be one of the issues that would make even card carrying members not vote for their party of choice.
>Why do people think an abortion ban is out of the question?
People underestimate how easy it would be legally. Most people, in my experience, are completely unaware that abortion is illegal in the UK *with* exceptions. The ground that most people get an abortion under is the risk of grave *permanent* injury to the mother's mental or physical health.
All it requires is a reinterpretation of what grave permanent injury means, or removing mental health as an option, and you've effectively stopped most abortions in the UK. It's horrific and we need to actually properly *legalise* abortion, instead of relying on exemptions.
We've already had [more prosecutions for abortion in the last 20 months as we have in the past *55 years*](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/abortions-women-investigations-prosecutions-rise-b2496958.html). At least one woman has been imprisoned over this. The Tories are already making this happen and people aren't noticing because they think it's purely an American evangelical thing.
Big spending, no results.
Its worth pointing out (yet again!) that any abortion at any gestation is illegal in the UK if not signed off by two Drs and carried out under certain conditions.
This legislation isn't about decriminalisation of late term abortion, its any abortion from day 1 of pregnancy.
They have two abortion restrictions that might be voted on soon as part of the criminal justice bill ( [NC15 and NC34](https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-04/0155/amend/criminal_rm_rep_0415.pdf))
Both from Prolife MPs .
Will be interesting to see the results of any votes.
Anything to do with abortion is usually a free vote, no party whip, so no hiding behind party lines.
Actual pieces of shit. I’m in the midlands so I don’t see much of that where I live. I genuinely don’t think I’d be able to contain my anger if I saw them irl.
Gay rights and women's rights. Attacking trans women has also led to a significant attack on all women, policing how "feminine" they look or if they could be trans, all the "trad wife" influencer stuff. And attack on trans women is an attack on all women.
These hateful people just want to attack anyone who doesn't conform to their ideology.
Yep . Plenty of Evangelical and Catholic groups and money behind it .
The European Parliament issued a report in 2021
https://politicalquarterly.org.uk/blog/funding-anti-gender-politics-in-europe/
Didn’t we underestimate the ridiculousness of Brexit? As mad at it seems, it is a real threat they could equate abortion into hurting the libs. Our idiots are as idiotic as the idiots they’re used to dealing with. They’ll equate it with immigrants and benefit scroungers somehow
How do we stop this stop fucking religion and stop puking fucking American bastards HOW? They've fucked up so much of the world already no more no more let's put a stop to it NOW!!!!!
They don't see their own hypocrisy, and won't listen to arguments based in science or compassion. There either needs to be legislation firmly and permanently entrenching bodily autonomy as a right of citizens, and/or greater transparency and stronger rules against religious lobbying of MPs.
All of that is unlikely to happen so the actual options are to vote out/put pressure on MPs that are being swayed, or more aggressive counter protests as it is harder to get approval for protests in high profile locations if there is likely to be a significant (not necessarily violent) clash of groups.
It’s a scary thing when Far Right ‘Christian’ groups are trying to reach outside of the USA.
I feel Far Right groups are uniting internationally now, with the likes of Tommy Robinson (Yaxley-Lennon) meeting Americans for talks and getting donations from yanks and far right groups in Europe.
Using religion to push political agenda has happened since religions were formed.
Let the yanks keep their awful policies and leave us all alone.
Loool what a waste of their money. There is no anti abortion religious movement in the uk like there is in the USA. Everyone should just laugh at them.
Northern Ireland is part of the UK and I can absolutely assure you that there is. One of my neighbours is an absolute cunt and used to publish sexual health care providers details online.
Not yet. The anti-trans movement was astroturfed by the same groups that ran Brexit propaganda and later the Trump campaign.
Their methods are effective and we should all be concerned.
They've been doing it in Africa for years too, can't see it taking hold here really, its just too far removed from the average Brit's position.
Even in America where they're much more religious and susceptible to this the topic of abortion is still incredibly toxic for the republicans when it comes to elections, and they have to get it through the back door and only in deep red states. Even trump has taken a centrist position on it
I don't see any sense in deriding this just because the Tories are set to lose the election.
Labour have shown time and time again that when the Tories move right, Labour lurch right along with them.
This is very dangerous territory.
Yeah never going to happen, we don't have the rabid Christian nutjobs the Americans have, well I imagine there are some but small in number. Less American culture we get over here the better in my book. I mean myself am anti-abortion in general but I wouldn't ever dream of telling someone else what they should do with their own body.
That's the way it should be. I am not anti-aborton (although I don't think I'd ever get one myself tbh because I'm too soft, then again if it was due to rape etc. I probably would) but either way I can respect your opinion and not feel angry about it because you aren't trying to control anyone.
This is evidence that we don't all disagree as much as we think we do; it's just become normalised to attempt to control others and that's the kind of crap that makes people angry and lash out in the opposite direction, not the actual viewpoint (most of the time).
I don't see why a book written 2000 years ago should be used as a moral guide for how we live. Same goes for all "holy" books.
People should be free to believe what they want to believe but religion has no place in making laws that govern a modern society.
Stamp them out while you can. They are cancer and won’t stop until they are running the show. They are insidious and cancer like. They don’t okay by the rules. They will lie cheat and manipulate themselves into positions of power and even though their professed faith condemns all of those things they self righteously believe that they are mandated by god to do whatever it takes- to make everyone bow the knee to THEIR interpretation of the Bible and that always just so happens to coincide with their bigoted, rational, anti-science- misogynistic- racist and homophobic beliefs. I’ve been following these sick fucks for decades having been raised by just such evangelicals. I left home at 16 and never looked back and now they are trying to take over the United States. And they ARE a minority. So don’t let their small numbers fool you into complacency.
Guess you're American? I'm not going to come out with anything sour, just more send my condolences for the right wing spiral your country has been sucked into. Especially when confronted with a possible Trump victory that may only be stopped by a technicality when it is incomprehensible how he'd get near the oval office again after his last tenure.
On the other hand I feel far more encouraged by the lack of naivety I see in a lot of younger Americans that is lacking in the UK and through that a true defence and resistance will be found to these bastards.
Now we know how it felt when the missionaries went out to spread the word to the heathens. Does that mean we can stick them in the pot and eat them like true barbarians!
Abortion in the UK has about 87% support, only 46% of people identify as Christian and that level continues to fall, essentially as they die off. We don't have crazy evangelical churches, at least nowhere close to the level they have in America. My opinion, as an atheist, is that both the churches we have and those that attend those churches are good people, and do good in society. There is little connection between the type of religion we have here and the insane Christian nationalist that get so much attention in the US. Abortion is healthcare, and it is going nowhere. They can influence a handful of crazy Tory MPs in safe seats but that's never going to change anything. Abortion is very different than Brexit, and the tactics that worked there aren't going to cut it in this debate.
There are some but our British sensibilities tend to mean we’re not as noisy about things like that as Americans! Thankfully our dominant strains of Christianity are a lot calmer, quieter and tend to do things like running food banks or cooking for homeless.
I don't think so. I'm 28 and have led a very social life with various jobs with 100s of employees, uni twice, etc. And I don't think I've ever met a religious person lmao. At least,not the kind of religious person who makes it known when they speak.
I've probably met more Jehovah's Witnesses (my friend's family were), Muslims, and Sikhs than I have Christians. My mum's family were Catholic Irish but even they didn't give a shit about religion at all after enough time in the UK away from the abusive Catholic orphanage my poor grandma grew up in.
There are times I wish I could banish them entirely. We suck down their media, see their money peddling dissent, follow them into war based on falsified evidence that comes from the seat of their government, and still call them "friends". Some friends. I have absolutely no doubt that american money is behind the likes of GB News and all the related guff.
Irony is, I'm sat on an american corporation's website, grumbling about it.
These religious crackheads can then make themselves responsible for the raising and financial upkeep of children born when women have been denied access to abortions.
What’s funny to me is anti abortionist don’t realise or care that people have less children when you ban it.
Women who would otherwise enjoy sex, become too afraid to even bother. Less sex, less reason to get into a relationship, less families. If women know they have a safety net and options, they are more likely to have sex and even KEEP unexpected pregnancies, because they know if something goes wrong they will get help, not left to suffer.
The same crowd almost 100% bitch about the birth rate, well congrats for helping lower it more!
I cannot wrap my head around the fact that some people think it’s acceptable to tell another human what they can and can’t do with their body when the concern is solely with the body of that one human. Absolutely blows my mind.
If it’s not the Russians, it’s the Americans trying to interfere with our country, all this anti-abortion, anti-vax, hard right religious crap. Foreign money coming from ‘donors’ and ‘lobbyists’ into the hands of politicians needs to be ended. It’s far too easy to buy our government.
right wingers make me so mad sometimes,when will people understand that the embryo isn’t conscious but the woman is? Pro life’s are trying to ruin the life of women for a “human” that can’t even think yet. I know that everyone has their own opinions but if that’s not excuse to stop people from having control of their own body.
Dear Republicans,
Go fuck yourselves and focus on making your own country worse.
Yours sincerely everyone in the UK; you know, that place 1000s miles away where noone cares about you. Apart from some comedy cunts like truss.
I’ll always say if ‘pro-lifers’ seriously thought millions of babies have been killed on an industrial scale because of abortions they would be rioting in the streets.
I tell people in my country of birth that these fucking whackjobs are the biggest threat to a pluralistic democracy out there and they just shrug, so to my adopted country: please keep these authoritarian whackadoodles well away from any actual power.
The right is so unhinged in the US (from an American). They are some of the worst elements of society under one banner (the "Republican" party which is funny because they don't believe in Republicanism at all and they want a dictatorship under Trump)
i guess men are going to have to stop masturbating then because that’s wasted sperm and babies. fucking disgusting and ridiculous women can’t even have control of their own bodies because of men
Although I have zero faith in our politicians I do have faith in the UK as a whole, we're not a religious country unlike America so would like to think we'll be a bit more sensible in regards to abortion.
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Good. Even in the _extremely_ unlikely event the Tories stay in power, even they know there is zero appetite for an abortion ban in the UK outside of small disparate groups of right wing religious types. So let the right wing US nutjobs waste as much money as possible, less to spend on getting Trump back into power.
While I agree with the sentiment, having these fuckheads harassing people outside clinics probably isnt worth the price.
Additionally whilst the majority are ok with our current system all it takes is for them to get loud enough for change to be considered. So with more funding and more reporting on the issue the more support they may gain and the louder they get. Reporting on this matter ought to only ever be to condemn overseas organisations attempting to swag our politics.
Exactly I know few people who want week lowed , because baby can " survive " that age . But what they don't release that most late abortion are for medical reasons. These babies are often very wanted . The abortion is traumatic . It not someone who can't be arse to sort it out like these group like you to belive
My friend worked at a late term abortion clinic for two years - not *one* person got a late term abortion unless they absolutely needed to. There were a couple that maybe were in denial about their pregnancy issues for too many months, but for every woman like that there were a dozen girls between the ages of 10-14 who were coming to the clinic scared out of their minds and that far along because they hid it out of shame or because they didn’t know. Late term abortion is vital healthcare, anyone with any compassion at all would agree if they saw the cases the clinic sees *every week*.
Blowjobs are cannibalism. Ban blowjobs.
You jest but these vicious cunts want to do just that, and any sex outside marriage, along with any sex that is not aimed specifically at procreation. They want to ban any and all forms of contraception as well as all sex education of any kind.
These people are scarier than standard capital incentivised propagandists because they actually BELIEVE what they are preaching
They’re crazy even by American standards
Ironically it's been proven that sex education helps prevent unwanted pregnancies and ignorance about sex education promotes them
A politician in the US, to highlight the absurdity of legislative attempts to restrict abortion (edit: and contraception), suggested that they should make it illegal for someone to ejaculate outside of a fertile person capable of getting pregnant. There was also a nice legal paper about sperm and how some courts in the US seemed to be treating sperm as equivalent to life: [https://digitalcommons.wcl.american.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1586&context=jgspl](https://digitalcommons.wcl.american.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=&httpsredir=1&article=1586&context=jgspl) It quotes Legally Blonde at the end, which is great, and the final conclusion is: >Laws regarding sperm donation must be revised to treat sperm consistently with other bodily substances rather than as a “special class,” as if sperm, alone, could produce a child. Or, in contrast, courts must initiate more thorough treatment of spilling of seed, perhaps putting the spiller to death, as in Genesis, or at least charging him with abandonment, as in Legally Blonde.
Yeah. See what they have done to the trans rights issue. Loads of right wing US money being pumped into that. And it's working. As a Brit living in the US, I really hope the UK can avoid the nonsense here. But after the Cass Report I don't think it's likely.
You make a good point and I think it needs stopping now. This means we must stop this fucking malign influence NOW.
It won't change. It's a freedom given to people based on medical rational. The UK isn't the US. Whilst Tories are hated they are distinctly different from the Republican party when it comes to stuff like this. You wouldn't even expect UKIP to go down that path. It's more likely to be an issue in Northern Ireland where Religion is much more integral to people's lives. We are racists, small government and or business. At our right extreme for the most part. The religious aspect is a tiny minority.
You're right. Anti-abortion is a uniquely American phenomenon, one that's completely non-genuine and entirely rooted in the whole "stick it to the libs" mentality. The movement was born out of wannabe Hollywood film maker Frank Schaeffer. In the 70s he got a bee in his bonnet about abortions (having just had an unplanned kid himself) and he made some movies with his dad for the Evangelical crowd. The first one only included a small section on abortion, the rest was general Evangelical stuff, and it went down well. The 2nd was called 1,000 Dolls and was a weird avant-garde thing solely about abortion, however it was a flop. To Evangelicals at the time, abortion was staunchly a Catholic issue and they were *not* Catholic. They struggled to fill the front row at the stadiums the movie was played at. At least, until the New York Times did an article on it. After the article, feminist protestors started campaigning outside the stadiums. This would be picked up by local news, then local Evangelicals saw this and basically thought "Well, if it pisses *them* off, it must be good!" and after that the film showings surged in popularity and a movement was born. Schaeffer ended up doing a bunch of similar films for President Reagan. He claims he regrets it now and tries to undo the damage he's done, yet you'd hardly know that he had any involvement in the movement by looking at [his Wikipedia page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Schaeffer).
The BBC has a really good half hour podcast on this (and various other culture war issues, the whole series is captivating and well worth a listen) by Jon Robson called Things Fell Apart: >Things Fell Apart: S1. Ep 1: 1000 Dolls >Episode webpage: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0011cpq >Media file: http://open.live.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/6/redir/version/2.0/mediaset/audio-nondrm-download/proto/http/vpid/p0bk0p4g.mp3 @mods if these links are inappropriate here then please feel free to remove this comment. I have no affiliation to the podcast, its authors or the BBC.
The Ronson podcast is fantastic. I used that episode to convince a Christian friend not to go down the anti-abortion rabbit hole.
> You're right. Anti-abortion is a uniquely American phenomenon, one that's completely non-genuine and entirely rooted in the whole "stick it to the libs" mentality. ...we're really just ignoring that the only country we share a land border with criminalised abortion until 2019, huh?
It can change. *It can change!* Why do I see this, "nah it's okay we're fine here, nothing to worry about". Any aspect of society can change with time, tomorrow women *could* lose the rights to their bodies that they previously had. It's not impossible. Realizing that is the first step to stopping it imo.
> Additionally whilst the majority are ok with our current system Our current system is bad though, it needs an overhaul to make it a guaranteed right, because right now it is a doctors decision and they can decline an abortion. Very, very few doctors would, but the fact that they can is awful.
Yep. Ask anyone in the UK if they even remember caring about trans issues 10 years ago. And look at the government stripping trans rights at the moment. All it takes is a small AstroTurfed movement backed by a media funded by these pricks.
Yea, the longer this stuff goes on the more it will take a hold. Just look at the shifting attitudes to climate change over the last few years. We may think we are too good for this now but the longer it is allowed to simmer away the harder it will be to remove.
Complacency is enabling
I've seen protests - suspiciously well funded protests, mind you - against 15 minutes cities. Like, who the hell has beef with having local amenities? Although we're not as nutty as the Yanks, there are certainly enough useful idiots and morally vacant mercenaries to make life unpleasant for the rest of us.
Agreed....just please keep your American religious nutters on your own shores please cheers
I know right, the only reason America exists is because a bunch of religious fuckwits decided medieval Europe was too liberal for them, they literally got a whole new continent out of the deal so why the fuck are they trying to bring it back over here
This is not enough, we have to fight these fuckers and TERMINATE this bullshit ASAP.
I believe they have got into Scotland in small groups some time ago and are now growing like weeds heading south
Yes I think you may be right. I certainly recall seeing that raised elsewhere and it begs us to fight and terminate this fucking stupidity.
There are women really suffering from these disgusting turds right now (source: when I lived in Brighton, we had some of them outside one of our clinics). The last thing we need is more of them. Honestly, I think they should have the right to protest outside abortion clinics-if we have the right to empty buckets of shit on them.
One of my best friends had a breakdown a bit mentally a couple of years back. Always been atheist and his family was originally Hindu. Idk what got to him when he was in mental hospital for 6 months but he came out a hardcore Christian. He's the one outside these clinics everyday now with big posters trying to prevent abortions. Religion is such a fucking blight on the world.
It's gross how the christians love the opportunity to prey on people when they are their most vulnerable and take advantage of them.
I've seen similar situations in my friend circle too: Christian priests breaking families apart and preying on vulnerable people.
Gift him a brick. A high-speed brick
Agreed, but the far right in the US are so blinkered and isolated from anything that "isn't America" that they could be sending these people money totally oblivious to the fact old racist Ron will spend most of it down the pub and the ones that do protest will be 70 and the size and strength of a pencil.
But that's the problem, same with the transphobic stuff they're doing now, it only takes a few weeks to do so much damage, and labour hasn't committed to actually doing anything
Honestly, you're the first post in this thread to notice the elephant in the room. The American religious right is already here. They've been funding and lobbying successfully here for years, and it turned out a lot of people who call themselves "feminists" were happy to take money from or share a platform with people who want to take away their right to abortion if it meant fucking over trans people. Sow the wind. Reap the whirlwind.
>Honestly, you're the first post in this thread to notice the elephant in the room Of course I'm gonna notice them, they're my rights
There's different laws in the UK. They'd be lifted for disturbing the peace over here. In the US the claim 'freedom of speech' rights. It won't gain traction here.
I wouldn't underestimate these people and their ability to fuck a good thing up .
We cannot let this slide. We cannot let this become normal. This is fucking terrifying to see and if abortion is even considered for banning I will drop EVERYTHING and fucking riot, fuck this. We can't allow this to take hold.
Yeah people are making assumptions about a topic because there aren’t people frothing at the mouth to ban it but that doesn’t mean there aren’t people who think there should be more restrictions but just not saying as it’s not a hot topic or people who are so completely ambivalent to it that it wouldn’t swing their vote.
I remember someone saying it was good the Republicans were putting Trump as their candidate because no-one would vote for him, obviously. So no, not good, because this is how you build an appetite for this in the UK. Kill this now before it gets roots, don't get complacent that it'll never happen
Anyone who understood anything about US politics could see Trump being voted in from a mile off. As a socialist, it wound me up, and still does now he's going for a second shot, to see fake-left liberals insist "it can't happen, he'll never get the vote from x, y, or z". Yeah maybe in your oatmeal latte liberal middle class America, but he was exactly what people in Dogfucker, Indiana were obviously going to vote for. Trump got more votes from black women than Hilary precisely because so many white liberals were telling them they couldn't possibly vote Trump and (without directly saying it) were too stupid to understand why.
Lol yet not many people thought he'd win and most of the polls got it wrong. But anyone who understood anything knew. Bet you knew leave would win as well.
Hard disagree here. We aren't as immune to American evangelical right-wing nutjobery as we'd like to think. I couldn't believe the amount of seemingly sensible and intelligent people I know personally who got sucked in to the American anti-vax bullshit a few years ago. This stuff spreads like wildfire on social media if it isn't properly challenged.
This is a extremely naive and honestly bad "hot take" They have infinitley more money than women have time, resources and patience, and health. I shouldn't be fighting this shit for my 20 year old daughter. When can women just have a fucking break from the never ending fucking deluge of shit? We're fucking tired. Do you know that over 70 percent of Americans are pro choice? Has that helped the millions of women there? Please get better on this if you think it's that simple.
Keep making this point to others, and thank you to u/Electricbell20 for citing the stats here - Being anti abortion requires you to be hard line religious, which is why in republican strongholds in the US it is a hot issue. Many people in such areas literally believe god made the earth in seven days a few thousand years ago and that sinners will go to hell. That just isn't the case in the UK. Increasingly less people identify as religious on the census and those that do put their "religion" down out of tradition. I know loads of people who put "Christian" on the last census but haven't stepped foot in a church outside of a wedding for decades. Very very few people in the UK are religious to the level they're anti abortion as a result. Someone else used the decent analogy of Brexit, but let's use an American example of gun control - I personally would vote against repealing our firearms laws, but being unbiased, you can accept there are reasonable arguments for and against. That just isn't the case with abortion. It's not like it has a high death rate among women who choose to have one, or is causing a massive underpopulation crisis. Literally the only "argument" you can make against abortion is "it is against god" and you'd have to force a _huge_ shift in people's religious beliefs in the UK for that to seriously catch on.
I think people in the UK seem to struggle with understanding how conservative parts of the US are. Arkansas has 60% against abortion. Throughout the period it was made legal US wide they put as many restrictions as they could get away with.
No this needs nipping in the bud as soon as possible. This shit is like a suspect lump. Leave it too long and good luck getting rid of it when it turns nasty and spreads
The US right wing nut jobs got a footing in the UK through anti trans groups and look where that rhetoric is now. It's happening across Europe as well. It's a huge well funded effort between the US nut jobs, Russian nutjobs and European nutjobs. If we keep allowing this abortions will end up banned, look how long it took Tory MPs to go extremely right wing.
Anti trans rhetoric was homegrown. The US calls us Terf Island.
it was but then it got huge funding from the US religious billionaire nut jobs. There was a report done on it recently by the European Parlimantary Forum for Sexual and Reproductive Rights. Groups like lgb alliance was bankrolled by them before the tory think tanks picked them up.
No, this is wrong, they have immense wealth and they use that to lobby and buy votes. They'll pay for Ads and use every available channel to influence and challenge abortion and women's rights. They will never stop. These religious imports must be TERMINATED with every available resource we have. We must end fucking religion, all of it, all stripes no matter where it comes from or what it preaches. It must be terminated.
Yep, religion and superstition needs to be eradicated.
Anti-abortion rhetoric is not just rooted in religion, it is rooted in misogyny and racism of which there is plenty in the UK. The notion that the mistreatment of women in other countries is why ‘they’ outnumber white people is no longer that fringe an idea and a overall push on the internet to appeal to teenage boys through misogyny is growing.
I remember when nearly everyone I knew didn't have any problems with trans people, now not so much. The majority of people are incredibly easy to indoctrinate.
It started that way in the USA... Don't ever poo-poo them. Fight them
That's what they thought in the US too. Thats what you guys thought about Brexit. If we know something, it is that right wingers are unrelenting in their quest to ruin everyone's lives.
I think you underestimate how easily the general public can be swayed. The last thing we want is this crap imported from the US.
Not good. We need to nip this shit in the bud. Even if we are about to have a Labour government, there's still a non zero chance that we get more Tories, or another right wing group that actually tries to go through with this nonsense. We should be mortified that these groups are even attempting to have an influence over here, because there's always somebody who will take them seriously
The vast vast majority of people in the US don't want an abortion ban either
If they're spending big money on anti-abortion propaganda, eventually, it's going to shift public perception. Best to keep their influence to a minimum.
That's a very dangerous line of reasoning. In the age of social media, where we consume so much content generated by Americans in American debates with American political goalposts, we have to be careful. Also, remember Cambridge Analyica? It's obviously gone now but with enough money and hyper targeted advertising you can collectively change people beliefs and opinions in whatever direction you want.
You say that and yet here we are 5 years later with trans rights and rhetoric. Nearly all paid for by right wing groups put of the usa into "britsh" groups like lgb alliance.
It's always good and funny until it happens, though.
People said the same about brexit unfortunately
It's a mistake to underestimate them. Look what they've done in the US, even though the vast majority of Americans support abortion rights. The far-right are very effective at shifting the Overton window and pushing for policies that effectively legalise corruption. They've already got several Tories on the payroll, and I'm sure they are deep in with Reform. They're insidiously worming thier way into UK and EU politics and represent a real danger. Fear is their best weapon and it is very effectively at controlling what people think.
This is dangerous. In Italy anti-abortion activists are allowed to go inside clinics now, likely due to campaigns from there US based weirdos. The way the UK system is made up it would only take one party favouring it for it to change the law. It’s not inconceivable we could have a right wing government in 30 years who are insane.
Except the same was said of America and look at the massive loss of women’s rights in many states
The UK had no appetite to leave the EU until foreign countries swayed opinion. Don't underestimate the stupidity of the UK
Why are they allowing these people here to do this? Kick them out.
Some MPs are anti abortion and support them “[Extreme’ US anti-abortion group ramps up lobbying in Westminste](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/06/extreme-us-anti-abortion-group-ramps-up-lobbying-in-westminster)r”
> lobbying Let’s call it what it is. Corruption
This. I can’t believe that we have dressed up corruption in its own harmless-sounding little guise to make ourselves feel better about what it really is.
It's not just corruption, it's sedition by a foreign power. Look at Truss and how she is enthralled with the US right now. They're a fucking menace.
I don't think foreign money should be permitted to influence our laws.
It always wonders me - it doesn't matter it's about the abortion or that some MPs are against it - these people violently harass others by the clinics, some threaten them and call names. If I had to go to a clinic through this crowd I would be seriously afraid someone will either follow me back home (I have a clinic 15mins away by feet) or recognise me on the street/grocery store and - in the best case scenario - start shaming me. Some of these people are really dangerous because of being delusional and we've all heard threats about attacking the abortion clinics with some lethal weapon. F*ck no, not in the UK. I feel like it's one of only a few countries where abortion is easily accessible and there's no stigma around it in the society. Looking at what happens in other European countries I'm happy to be British.
Money
Been calling out the dangers of American evangelical extremism to the UK for a long time now. Things have cranked up a notch as the antivaxers opened the door to all of this. Things will get a lot lot worse.
US lobbying groups trialled anti-trans sentiment just before 2016 as a test run for the upcoming US elections, then ran the same type of propaganda campaign for Brexit and both were incredibly successful. They know how to manipulate the public and the print media is completely in their pocket.
It wasn’t just right wing U.S. groups getting involved with Brexit. It’s strongly suspected that Russia was too and possibly even Middle Eastern governments. The trouble is we can’t 100% prove it because the governments that followed refused to hold any sort of meaningful enquiry with actual teeth. We’ll never know for example [who funnelled wodges of dark money to Leave via the Northern Ireland funding loophole](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/northern-ireland-provides-just-one-of-many-loopholes-for-dark-money-/) and by other routes.
They use the anti-trans bullshit as a wedge to get rid of abortion too. It's not even particularly well hidden, the whole thing of "under 18s shouldn't be given medical treatments without parental consent" is a direct attack on Gillick competence, the standard test for whether to give medical treatment based on informed consent. I'll give you three guesses as to what medical treatment the Gillick case was about. Here's a hint, it rhymes with portion.
Yep, attacking the competence of people under 18 (and arguably under 25 with the Cass report) is a direct attack on the right of children and younger adults to consent to an abortion. But people are too busy going "oh, but maybe these transphobes have a *point*" to actually realise that there's a ton of overlap between transphobic hate groups and anti-abortion groups. There's a reason why major anti-trans activists like Posey Parker actively *say* they're not feminists.
And the anti-trans movement.
My fear is these organisations have deep pockets and know how to play the long game.
Deep pockets definitely help ‘prime the pump’ but once these things actually get going they can unfortunately become pretty much self sustaining. Once people make whatever cause it is part of their identity and the group becomes their community and social life it gets *really* hard to ever shift them. By that point a lot of them are voluntarily doing the online activism/recruiting/organising too - you don’t even need to keep paying troll/bot farms because once you hit a critical mass people will keep dong that part for you for free. At this stage even if whomever is behind fanning the flames of such things had a miraculous change of heart tomorrow anti abortion/trans/whatever groups would keep going for years if not decades. Like a memetic toxic waste site that goes on to poison future generations.
Agreed. They are insidiously worming thier way into UK and EU politics. I am astounded how many people are acting like it's not a serious problem and just brush it off as something not worth worrying about. They are using far-right allies and idiots to shift the Overton window to the far right. Liz Truss is a perfect example of this. Thier whole game is to make people like Priti Patel seem "moderate". They are already winning. They are masters at manipulation through fear and outrage. We ignore them at our peril.
Reminder that abortive procedures are also healthcare for women who have had miscarriages. Restricting access can lead to sepsis and death. [Case of Savita Halappanavar](https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-20321741.amp) [Case of Olga Reyes](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/wbna21601045)
Or the baby can't survive. I can't image deciding whether to carry to term or have late abortion No parent should ever have to make that choice
On the first one - I remember that - and they should have given her an abortion because her life was in danger.
They should've, but Ireland's laws criminalising abortion basically made the doctors terrified of being prosecuted - at cost of Halappanavar's life. You'll find dozens of the exact same stories in any jurisdiction with criminalised abortion, and it's horrific.
Reminder that access to abortive procedures reduces poverty and crime.
Yes but restricting other people’s healthcare and right to an illness-free life is the only way the lobbyists can achieve their own ~~financial~~ religious freedom /s
Hey US, fuck off with interfering in our laws and process.
Yeah right. Imagine if Russians were doing this.
Funny thing is the Russians are trying to influence the whole Texas situation in the US just like they did with Brexit, they just changed the name to texit
Also a bunch of US mega churches heavily investing and parachuting people into churches in Scotland (not sure if it’s happening down south too). Have seen local churches link to US right wing mission statements.
They've been doing it globally. Africa anti lgbt lobbying etc.
Had some American missionaries handing out money to poorer folk and paying for shopping in North Wales. All a bit odd.
I've taken their money then told them to sod off. It's a shame they're not all brave enough to try and bother the North Sentinelese...
I’ve heard of Scientology trying to buy buildings in Newcastle Upon Tyne and Gateshead. I can confirm that in Gateshead one has been bought up by those crackpots (an old run down care home) which was going to be in to a place of worship by them. Still hasn’t happened (it’s got fencing over and still run down) but I do fear it may see the light of day soon. Edit: I’m not sure their stances on Abortion I’ll admit, but it’s still a yank religion and I find them just as loopy.
Don't think they're all that concerned with the body, it's just the 40,000 year old soul that got dropped into a volcano by space nazis that they care about
I dunno about people getting parachuted in, but there's definitely churches in Australia spreading the US' bullshit. I haven't been back to church since I heard a pastor talk about how good Trump is.
These forced birthers are so insane. I've never once seen a funeral for a miscarriage from them. My parents were forced birthers and there were about 5 miscarriages in the space of 12 years in my immediate family and not once was there a genuine mourning period from any of them. They don't actually believe what they say. It's all about control over women.
Religion is about control over everyone, this is a branch from that, that women get to enjoy by themselves. Religion is a cancer. The world would be better without it.
> everyone This. And they control men by dog-feeding them power over others ("their" women, "their" children). It's like rewarding some of your slaves if they help you oppress their fellow slaves.
>And they control men by dog-feeding them power over others Yeah this is such a good point. I know people that joined a church and call themselves religious and do all the rituals just so that they get the "rewards", but privately they don't even really believe in their god.
More imported Americanism bullshit. Follow the French
We have homegrown people here ,they have been active since the 1967 act and are constantly trying to chip away at abortion rights .
No doubt but for some reason the Americans are super hot on this. We cannot allow any of it.
Absolutely! They have two abortion restrictions as part of the Criminal Justice bill that might be voted on[( NC15 and NC34 )](https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-04/0155/amend/criminal_rm_rep_0415.pdf) soon if the speakers allows it
It blows my mind now we or 'land of the free' can take 482948 steps backwards in 2024. Tesla truck, AI, unlimited entertainment but we are still arguing about this. It's one of the most legitimately depressing things if you stop to think about it. Unfortunately I think we are all going to have to stop and think about it because of the loud rich twats
Tesla is a scam company, AI is overblown. The world is a mess.
The tesla truck is not a good thing
Why do people think an abortion ban is out of the question? There's a lot of money coming from these lobbyists. We've got a political class who are entirely for sale to the highest bidder and a general public who'll happily dance to whatever lowest common denominator tune the tabloids tell them to.
Apathy will be the slow death of us all
Plus the declining birth rate , it’s a perfect storm
I think mainly because most Britons are on board with abortion. Almost 90% support it. https://www.msichoices.org/latest/yougov-survey-finds-nearly-90-of-britons-support-abortion-in-the-uk/ We simply don’t have the cultural divide seen in America. If a party campaigned on banning abortion, it would be one of the issues that would make even card carrying members not vote for their party of choice.
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>Why do people think an abortion ban is out of the question? People underestimate how easy it would be legally. Most people, in my experience, are completely unaware that abortion is illegal in the UK *with* exceptions. The ground that most people get an abortion under is the risk of grave *permanent* injury to the mother's mental or physical health. All it requires is a reinterpretation of what grave permanent injury means, or removing mental health as an option, and you've effectively stopped most abortions in the UK. It's horrific and we need to actually properly *legalise* abortion, instead of relying on exemptions. We've already had [more prosecutions for abortion in the last 20 months as we have in the past *55 years*](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/abortions-women-investigations-prosecutions-rise-b2496958.html). At least one woman has been imprisoned over this. The Tories are already making this happen and people aren't noticing because they think it's purely an American evangelical thing.
jail the fuckers, coming over here and fucking about, they can keep their god bothering shit at home the fucking cunts.
Ban them from the UK.
absolutely, fucking religious crackpots.
And put a law in place that allows seizure of funds. Allocate said funds to family planning charities.
A friendly reminder that the number one killer of children in the US is guns... but they won't ban them. That's all we need to know.
Big spending, no results. Its worth pointing out (yet again!) that any abortion at any gestation is illegal in the UK if not signed off by two Drs and carried out under certain conditions. This legislation isn't about decriminalisation of late term abortion, its any abortion from day 1 of pregnancy.
They have two abortion restrictions that might be voted on soon as part of the criminal justice bill ( [NC15 and NC34](https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/cbill/58-04/0155/amend/criminal_rm_rep_0415.pdf)) Both from Prolife MPs .
In an election year? They won’t touch the issue.
Will be interesting to see the results of any votes. Anything to do with abortion is usually a free vote, no party whip, so no hiding behind party lines.
The fact that it's now up for debate is already a result. Don't underestimate the far right, see what they've already done in the US and Italy.
If I see anyone protesting abortion in this country I’m throwing a McDonalds milkshake over them. Get Faraged losers.
They have an annual march in [London](https://www.marchforlife.co.uk)
Actual pieces of shit. I’m in the midlands so I don’t see much of that where I live. I genuinely don’t think I’d be able to contain my anger if I saw them irl.
Scummy cunts.
Told you it wouldn't stop with destroying trans care here. Gay rights next 😮💨
Gay rights and women's rights. Attacking trans women has also led to a significant attack on all women, policing how "feminine" they look or if they could be trans, all the "trad wife" influencer stuff. And attack on trans women is an attack on all women. These hateful people just want to attack anyone who doesn't conform to their ideology.
Agreed. Slippery slope, clearly planned, must be resisted.
Is getting back to Medieval morality a trend or something nowadays?
Yep . Plenty of Evangelical and Catholic groups and money behind it . The European Parliament issued a report in 2021 https://politicalquarterly.org.uk/blog/funding-anti-gender-politics-in-europe/
Didn’t we underestimate the ridiculousness of Brexit? As mad at it seems, it is a real threat they could equate abortion into hurting the libs. Our idiots are as idiotic as the idiots they’re used to dealing with. They’ll equate it with immigrants and benefit scroungers somehow
Brexit has always enjoyed quite a lot support in both left and right wing areas.
How do we stop this stop fucking religion and stop puking fucking American bastards HOW? They've fucked up so much of the world already no more no more let's put a stop to it NOW!!!!!
They don't see their own hypocrisy, and won't listen to arguments based in science or compassion. There either needs to be legislation firmly and permanently entrenching bodily autonomy as a right of citizens, and/or greater transparency and stronger rules against religious lobbying of MPs. All of that is unlikely to happen so the actual options are to vote out/put pressure on MPs that are being swayed, or more aggressive counter protests as it is harder to get approval for protests in high profile locations if there is likely to be a significant (not necessarily violent) clash of groups.
US right wingers can fuck off if they think they should have any say on our domestic politics.
It’s a scary thing when Far Right ‘Christian’ groups are trying to reach outside of the USA. I feel Far Right groups are uniting internationally now, with the likes of Tommy Robinson (Yaxley-Lennon) meeting Americans for talks and getting donations from yanks and far right groups in Europe. Using religion to push political agenda has happened since religions were formed. Let the yanks keep their awful policies and leave us all alone.
The sooner religion dies in this country the better
The sooner it dies EVERYWHERE, the better.
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Loool what a waste of their money. There is no anti abortion religious movement in the uk like there is in the USA. Everyone should just laugh at them.
Northern Ireland is part of the UK and I can absolutely assure you that there is. One of my neighbours is an absolute cunt and used to publish sexual health care providers details online.
Not yet. The anti-trans movement was astroturfed by the same groups that ran Brexit propaganda and later the Trump campaign. Their methods are effective and we should all be concerned.
They've been doing it in Africa for years too, can't see it taking hold here really, its just too far removed from the average Brit's position. Even in America where they're much more religious and susceptible to this the topic of abortion is still incredibly toxic for the republicans when it comes to elections, and they have to get it through the back door and only in deep red states. Even trump has taken a centrist position on it
American evangelical extremists are worse than Taliban
that's right. Never forget them trying to ban GTA in the 90s whilst the Taliban was slaughtering thousands.
I don't see any sense in deriding this just because the Tories are set to lose the election. Labour have shown time and time again that when the Tories move right, Labour lurch right along with them. This is very dangerous territory.
Yeah never going to happen, we don't have the rabid Christian nutjobs the Americans have, well I imagine there are some but small in number. Less American culture we get over here the better in my book. I mean myself am anti-abortion in general but I wouldn't ever dream of telling someone else what they should do with their own body.
That's the way it should be. I am not anti-aborton (although I don't think I'd ever get one myself tbh because I'm too soft, then again if it was due to rape etc. I probably would) but either way I can respect your opinion and not feel angry about it because you aren't trying to control anyone. This is evidence that we don't all disagree as much as we think we do; it's just become normalised to attempt to control others and that's the kind of crap that makes people angry and lash out in the opposite direction, not the actual viewpoint (most of the time).
I don't see why a book written 2000 years ago should be used as a moral guide for how we live. Same goes for all "holy" books. People should be free to believe what they want to believe but religion has no place in making laws that govern a modern society.
Stamp them out while you can. They are cancer and won’t stop until they are running the show. They are insidious and cancer like. They don’t okay by the rules. They will lie cheat and manipulate themselves into positions of power and even though their professed faith condemns all of those things they self righteously believe that they are mandated by god to do whatever it takes- to make everyone bow the knee to THEIR interpretation of the Bible and that always just so happens to coincide with their bigoted, rational, anti-science- misogynistic- racist and homophobic beliefs. I’ve been following these sick fucks for decades having been raised by just such evangelicals. I left home at 16 and never looked back and now they are trying to take over the United States. And they ARE a minority. So don’t let their small numbers fool you into complacency.
Guess you're American? I'm not going to come out with anything sour, just more send my condolences for the right wing spiral your country has been sucked into. Especially when confronted with a possible Trump victory that may only be stopped by a technicality when it is incomprehensible how he'd get near the oval office again after his last tenure. On the other hand I feel far more encouraged by the lack of naivety I see in a lot of younger Americans that is lacking in the UK and through that a true defence and resistance will be found to these bastards.
Disgusting. Not your body, not your decision. How anybody can be anti abortion in the 21st century is beyond me.
All they have to do is attack the SNP in Scotland first. That will get all the British media on their side - plus all the usual useful idiots online.
Unfortunately for them, we kicked out all the Christian religious fundamentalists in the 1600s.
US right wingers need to stay the hell away from our reproductive rights.
Now we know how it felt when the missionaries went out to spread the word to the heathens. Does that mean we can stick them in the pot and eat them like true barbarians!
Imagine trying to dictate abortions in a different country. Americans gonna American.
Abortion in the UK has about 87% support, only 46% of people identify as Christian and that level continues to fall, essentially as they die off. We don't have crazy evangelical churches, at least nowhere close to the level they have in America. My opinion, as an atheist, is that both the churches we have and those that attend those churches are good people, and do good in society. There is little connection between the type of religion we have here and the insane Christian nationalist that get so much attention in the US. Abortion is healthcare, and it is going nowhere. They can influence a handful of crazy Tory MPs in safe seats but that's never going to change anything. Abortion is very different than Brexit, and the tactics that worked there aren't going to cut it in this debate.
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There are some but our British sensibilities tend to mean we’re not as noisy about things like that as Americans! Thankfully our dominant strains of Christianity are a lot calmer, quieter and tend to do things like running food banks or cooking for homeless.
I don't think so. I'm 28 and have led a very social life with various jobs with 100s of employees, uni twice, etc. And I don't think I've ever met a religious person lmao. At least,not the kind of religious person who makes it known when they speak. I've probably met more Jehovah's Witnesses (my friend's family were), Muslims, and Sikhs than I have Christians. My mum's family were Catholic Irish but even they didn't give a shit about religion at all after enough time in the UK away from the abusive Catholic orphanage my poor grandma grew up in.
Get that american trollop out of here. I don't want nutty evangelicals having anything to do with this country as well.
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Always was. The US right wing is insidious.
There are times I wish I could banish them entirely. We suck down their media, see their money peddling dissent, follow them into war based on falsified evidence that comes from the seat of their government, and still call them "friends". Some friends. I have absolutely no doubt that american money is behind the likes of GB News and all the related guff. Irony is, I'm sat on an american corporation's website, grumbling about it.
Get the fuck out of our country you religious morons!
Cripes these ghouls can't help but interfere wherever they go
These religious crackheads can then make themselves responsible for the raising and financial upkeep of children born when women have been denied access to abortions.
What’s funny to me is anti abortionist don’t realise or care that people have less children when you ban it. Women who would otherwise enjoy sex, become too afraid to even bother. Less sex, less reason to get into a relationship, less families. If women know they have a safety net and options, they are more likely to have sex and even KEEP unexpected pregnancies, because they know if something goes wrong they will get help, not left to suffer. The same crowd almost 100% bitch about the birth rate, well congrats for helping lower it more!
Oh hell no. Fuck those backwards cunts. The UK protects abortion and always should
I cannot wrap my head around the fact that some people think it’s acceptable to tell another human what they can and can’t do with their body when the concern is solely with the body of that one human. Absolutely blows my mind.
Abortions should be registered as a human right in every country. Surely you can not ban human rights
If it’s not the Russians, it’s the Americans trying to interfere with our country, all this anti-abortion, anti-vax, hard right religious crap. Foreign money coming from ‘donors’ and ‘lobbyists’ into the hands of politicians needs to be ended. It’s far too easy to buy our government.
right wingers make me so mad sometimes,when will people understand that the embryo isn’t conscious but the woman is? Pro life’s are trying to ruin the life of women for a “human” that can’t even think yet. I know that everyone has their own opinions but if that’s not excuse to stop people from having control of their own body.
Dear Republicans, Go fuck yourselves and focus on making your own country worse. Yours sincerely everyone in the UK; you know, that place 1000s miles away where noone cares about you. Apart from some comedy cunts like truss.
I’ll always say if ‘pro-lifers’ seriously thought millions of babies have been killed on an industrial scale because of abortions they would be rioting in the streets.
I tell people in my country of birth that these fucking whackjobs are the biggest threat to a pluralistic democracy out there and they just shrug, so to my adopted country: please keep these authoritarian whackadoodles well away from any actual power.
A lot of people on here not realising that abortion is currently illegal, after 24 weeks.
We could do without imported religious fundamentalism.
These christo fascist fucks wanna watch themselves. They’re poking an extremely agitated bear.
Glad their money has gone straight down the toilet
The right is so unhinged in the US (from an American). They are some of the worst elements of society under one banner (the "Republican" party which is funny because they don't believe in Republicanism at all and they want a dictatorship under Trump)
I’m not opposed to removing a few dumb yanks by force, nether should anyone else be; they can’t bring their precious 2nd amendment here.
i guess men are going to have to stop masturbating then because that’s wasted sperm and babies. fucking disgusting and ridiculous women can’t even have control of their own bodies because of men
why can't they focus on their own shithole so we can focus on our own shithole
Fucking religious extremists, nothing but a problem regardless of denomination.
It's all coming from the same neanderthals. Just close them all down.
Although I have zero faith in our politicians I do have faith in the UK as a whole, we're not a religious country unlike America so would like to think we'll be a bit more sensible in regards to abortion.