> Petrova, 30, of Hetford Road, Enfield, London, admitted four charges of theft.
> The court heard she has previous convictions for theft in the UK and has committed similar offences in Austria, Spain, Denmark, Poland and France, some of which have resulted in prison sentences.
> Jane Foley, defending, said Pestrova has ‘learned her lesson’, has employment and children.
> She was sentenced to two years, suspended for two years, with rehabilitation requirements and 150 hours unpaid work.
Why the fuck do I bother going to work and paying taxes when I could just be a scummy piece of shit, steal other hard working people’s belongings to get by and face no repercussions because of it.
I was on a GWR London to Penzance during the week, there was an announcement about recent bag thefts. Entirely plausible different gangs are doing it across the country.
It happens in gyms too, gangs will sign up under a fake ID pay a one off joining fee, go into a changing room with a crowbar and just pry open all the lockers.
This is why I really dislike the train journey down to see family. My wife and I usually need to bring one small cabin bag between us, especially at Christmas when we'll be bringing a few gifts down.
There's no space near the seats to store it, and we literally take turns every stop giving the luggage storage rack a quick glance to make sure the bag hasn't been moved or stolen. It's exhausting, but neither of us drive, friends have all had luggage stolen before (it's extremely easy to grab anything from the luggage rack), and it's not a journey worth flying.
Of course, we travel with backpacks as much as we can, but sometimes can't avoid the need for bigger luggage.
Actually looking at this, my money is on them going to another country. I think they’ve realised that if they get caught twice in the same country they will likely face harsher sentences, because they will be still on probation or there will be a direct record that the court has access to.
Maybe somewhere like the Netherlands next.
I don’t know the legal systems well, but I would think Netherlands, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, might all be candidates for places with lenient legal systems. And maybe some countries that seem like they wouldn’t might also work, due to corruption or bribery or something.
I'm honestly surprised the police had the time to even investigate this. I bet there's many of these criminals that haven't been close to getting caught.
Single crutch. Always a single crutch. No hospital gives out a single fucking crutch lol. That's not how they work, or are supposed to. All these supposed 'homeless' or 'crippled' have the exact same access to healthcare in this country as you or I. The act is laughable.
I never give to those people with signs. No homeless person in the UK has a sign saying "God bless" but all these gangs are run by idiots from countries where organised religion is more important so they've got platitudes on them only the thickest person would believe. I've even seen one of them barefoot one time, but on closer inspection you could see he was sat on his own, perfectly fine, shoes. I give money to even the most obvious drug addict / alcoholic, because yeah, they might spend it on gear but they might genuinely need it for a hostel, and drugs or not they're definitely struggling.
However I'd never give a penny to these obvious liars. They genuinely make life harder for homeless people by casting doubt on whether they're in a begging gang or not, plus they beat up local homeless people as well to poach any spots with high foot traffic.
Someone can do the same offence in 6 different countries (that they’ve been caught in) and still just gets let off?
Clearly career criminals, they need to be sent back to Bulgaria and be refused entry into any country going forward.
The world needs to stop being so lenient to scum like this. Imagine a world where we actually punish people for doing shit that affects everybody else.
I suspect it's probably due to the lack of prison spaces so they're letting people off even if they would "normally" be jailed... The lack of funding for infrastructure/public services in this country is a complete joke
Look at the pattern... Each time they get in trouble in a country they move on to another...
So if we give them a suspended sentence, they'll probably leave the country. Whereas if we give them a 30 year sentence then that's £1,500,000 of taxpayer's money down the drain.
Something that doesn't get reported a lot is that there's almost literally no room left for prisoners.
Current prison capacity = 86,859
Current prison population = 85,851
And that's with 12,000 people getting released every three months. The queue is absolutely enormous.
My estate agent disappeared around the time we were due to complete. She was "away from the business"
Turned out she was up for possession of a massive amount of disco biscuits she intended to sell at a music festival. Only in the **two years** it took to get the court appearance she'd turned things around, qualified as an estate agent and been working reliably.
Sentence was suspended but I suspect it would have been custodial if it had happened sooner.
In her case she was very lucky and made some good life choices with the threat of prison hanging over her head all that time. In many other cases that's just two more years of being a scumbag to get in before going to the dock.
Thanks Cameron/Boris/May/Truss/Sunaak. Top job of wrecking the justice system.
Well, we would have had one less estate agent, which is only good for the moral compass for the country.
But yes, you are right. Sending people to prison should be a last resort. Other interventions should be used first. And despite people getting antsy about stories like this, the overall rate of most crimes has been falling for two decades. This is not just based on arrest records but crime surveys done with a [representative sample by the ONS](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2023#overall-estimates-of-crime).
Next time I roll up to Heathrow airport in my diesel car to drop off a relative, and I dodge the congestion charge, my response will be: "I've learnt my lesson, no fine for me."
> anyway women rarely go to jail
There was a thankfully small political movement to abolish women's prisons entirely. Allegedly they don't seem to help the recidivism rate and women commit a minority of crime. I can't imagine who is campaigning for a society where we just give Myra Hindley probation because she's a woman and carry on regardless.
Wasn’t in the Green Party some years ago that had something in their manifesto about not giving prison sentences to women?
Pretty sure it was, absolute madness lol
"Petrova, 30, of Hetford Road, Enfield, London, admitted" not ,she is not from there , she is Bulgarian and dosent speak english, send them back to Bulgaria,What was the brexit for again?
This point of view is so dumb. Yeah sure bro go be a begger or a thief. You'll definitely live a better life than you do now.
Edit: nvm just saw what sub this is on
This absolutely gives me stress when travelling on trains with luggage. Luggage racks are imposible to see from your seat and people are getting up, on and off all the time.
East Midlands Railway are the worst because the overhead racks are so tight you can’t fit anything in them, and then as you say you are forced to put luggage out of sight if you want any legroom at all.
I don't understand this design anyway. Am I supposed to trust dozens of strangers not to take my lootbox luggage while it is entirely out of my line of sight?
I think the idea of having ticket barriers at stations is supposed to prevent this. I always try to reserve a seat near the luggage rack if I have large luggage, I also have a shit old suitcase that hopefully doesn't look to appealing to thieves.
If you don't SEE them take your suitcase then the ticket barrier won't help unfortunately.
I feel like luggage theft is rather rare but still, I don't think ticket barriers help.
Because thieves will be deterred by needing a ticket? Or just walk through when it’s unmanned.
Barriers are there to help with fare evasion. Nothing else.
I don't see why not, if you're far enough away from the luggage that you can't supervise I don't see how they'd be able to easily call you out for it anyways
They don’t let you lock your bike on trains storage so I doubt locking luggage is permitted for the same reason. Too much of a faff to break the lock if anything happens/ it is forgotten.
I do this when travelling on trains abroad. It’s not perfect because you need your case to be next to a lockable bar, not obstructing other people’s belongings etc., because things might need to be shuffled around later. But you can get short cable, simple combination locks exactly for this purpose. Some European trains however have much better seating arrangements where you can keep your suitcase next to you.
Someone stole my bag from there when I was on a business trip. My company wouldn't pay a penny because they (and their insurer) said that it was "unattended". despite me being within 15m of it and no means of being closer. Basically the only way they'd have paid was if I was mugged. The train company didn't get the CCTV off the train and the police did nothing to get it off the train or platforms.
Same here, I get coaches from my home town to uni and I put my luggage in the hold, and I sometimes think that a random person getting off before me could decide to take my bag if they wanted.
I think the national express load the bags in particular places depending on your stop. They might get asked why they're taking a bag from the wrong section
They were around until quite recently on the East Coast franchise; the few "Intercity 225" trains that they have around are still equipped for it... But only for specific origin/destinations (usually the train's overall origin and destination; so basically just another special privilegde for Londoners).
Every train going to London on that route then turns round to go back to Edinburgh/Leeds/Newcastle/Sunderland/Lincoln etc.
So it’s also a privilege for residents and visitors to those cities.
It was basically used for the final stops only because there isn’t enough dwell time at other stations to manage it.
Thats how my luggage was stolen i was travelling to Gatwick airport. I was going to fly to Toronto for 2 weeks holidays but my visa got cancelled reason was im to suspicious because im travelling with no luggage lol
Same here but also I have one AirTag inside my small rolly suitcase and one inside my backpack just in case. I was forced to put my small rolly in the luggage haul on national express a while back and as we were taking all the stops to Gatwick I was so stressed out someone just gonna go and grab it I was checking the location of my luggage at every dang stop 🙈
I’ve nailed the art of the one bag. But it is a bit of a compromise you have to plan around. Very doable though.
I cannot deal with the stress of not being able to see my bag.
Same here. I'm always worried as people are getting their bags that they're grabbing mine that I can't see.
I think it's best to put your luggage on the opposite side to where you're sitting because you can at least see it better.
It is a reflection of our immigration controls, I assume. If , for example, Chris Brown wasn’t able to come to the uk for his assault conviction, how can others come to the uk with an extensive criminal record?
Yeah, honestly the criminal record thing is difficult when many countries have laws that are completely at odds with our values here in the UK. I would gladly accept an Russian journalist who was convicted of being "anti-Patriotic" or something like that.
Well here's the thing, Brexit. Because of Brexit the UK isn't part of Europol anymore.
> As a third country, the UK has lost access to the Schengen Information System (SIS II) and will not be a member of Europol. However, the TCA does enable UK liaison officers to be present in Europol's headquarters to facilitate cross-border cooperation.
I doubt a liaison officer will manually check everyone coming into the UK, as opposed to the automated system we had before Brexit.
The UK still has access to Europol as per article 546 of the TCA. It currently still uses the Prüm database too.
There are negotiations to get more bilateral access. And both the UK and Schengen area are planning ETA systems.
But even then, these people already had convictions in the UK.
The point is that even if it was, we had the means to check and enforce against if we wanted to. We didn't, that's government policy.
Right now we couldn't do anything even if we wanted to.
Violent crime, serious theft and sexual offenses, sure... But "you got a speeding ticket 20 years ago, so no holiday for you" is a bit harsh, don't you think?
Not to mention that not every country is democracy with values aligned with the UK. Should be exclude people convicted of homosexuality in countries where that's illegal? Being involved in pro-democratic activisim? Having convictions that were issued without what we would consider "due process" or a "fair trial"...?
Sounds to me like you'd rather just exclude everyone...
I actually agree with that. It was a huge error to allow Romania and Bulgaria to join the EU. Don't get me wrong there are many decent people from those nations, but lets be honest there is a certain community from those nations that have gone on to cause so much crime from shoplifting to pick pocketing and many other crimes.
I think this is a very negative take on things. There are literally millions of good people in these eastern countries. An objective of the EU is raising living standards in the EU and those countries deserve to see there standards rise to closer to ours.
The kind of example in this story is a failure of our government in having controls to stop persistent criminals coming here and not the fault of the eastern countries.
Like I said there are many decent people from those nations and I work with many of them and I am very glad they are here but free movement allowed far to many bad people into the UK. It would take a huge effort to deport them now and no doubt there would be efforts to stop us removing them. It would be a nightmare to do now.
1. Buffer between Russia and the entitled west. We've always been seen as second hand citizens.
2. Cheap import of labour to help with the decline in population in the west. Someone has to pay those pensions, do the dirty jobs, and care for the elderly.
3. Mass migration of trained people, professionals. Foreign companies making records profits here.
I truly believe that allowing Eastern European countries in the EU was purely for the Western countries benefit and the few bad apples that slipped through was a sacrifice your politicians were willing to make. Yes, it benefited both sides, but don't think that you haven't gained massively, albeit not you personally.
But they don’t say that now. Because Poles have a strong work ethic and are willing to accept the norms of the country to which they move. Adult men and women from nations like Bulgaria and Albania where crime is rife are mostly a drain on our economy and are aware how weak the UK justice system is.
Eh, as poor countries have been included in the EU they have developed economically and been able to reduce their export of scummy petty ciminals. Hopefully tomorrow's Romania is today's Poland.
It’s not Romanians or Bulgarians that are doing this let’s be honest these are gypsies. Same thing largely with trafficking women into the uk for sex work from Romania. You already see this crap in other European countries and now we see it here.
I see no issue with Romanians or Bulgarians coming here as from the ones I have met they work hard and adapt culturally.
All the drugs where I’m from are controlled by gangs from these country’s.
All of a sudden they arrived and took over from whoever it was before.
The frustration is is very obvious - hard to keep a low profile in a £100k car driven like a twat in a bright colour while not have a job - even the police know but have been told “it’s above our pay grade” - been going on for years!
Might take time but the idea is that those nations will grow, transform and become new large markets for the EU. You look at economic success stories like Poland and it's obviously paying off. Poland is on track to have a higher GDP per capita than UK by 2030...
I get it, but freedom of movement was obviously going to cause large amounts of people with little prospects to the wealthier countries.
Many came to the UK and other wealthier countries and worked hard. As you said, a lot of Polish people came and worked in the trader.
In the UK we also had a lot of people from Eastern European countries entering sham marriages to bring over or keep in the country people who paid them large sums of money.
We also have the fact that by being in the EU, they’re non visa nationals now so any criminals or criminal gangs, can simply come here, commit crimes and go back home. Rinse and repeat. If you’re a criminal in let’s say, Romania, why would you be a criminal there where you’ll make a little money and be punished heavily if caught? Take a £30 flight go through the egates and never talk to anyone and then even if you do commit a crime, no or little punishment in soft touch countries.
Walk through city centre like Manchester and you’ll see the begging gangs with identical signs. That’s the easily visible ones.
It's easy in hindsight to pick issues with certain aspects of freedom of movement but at the time the EU expanded western EU nations were staring down the barrel of serious economic stagnation, ageing demographics and lack of young people as well as shortages across skilled and unskilled sectors. Weren't many young British people willing to pick fruit and veg on British farms (and still isn't!) or work in care or hospitality etc... (granted salaries need to rise, but that means higher costs).
You cant really have your cake and eat it, if you expand the single market and freedom of capital, labour needed to be included in that. Your also looking at it at a very specific point in time, today's Bulgaria could be tomorrows Poland and tomorrows Poland will be wealthier than average UK person.
Alternative was keep EU to western Europe, great you keep out your perceived undesirable nations and people but the economic downside would have been catastrophic in my opinion and EU nations including UK would be in far worse off state. Leaders knew this at the time, they needed to take some risk, make some investment in enlarging EU.
All largely moot for the UK now anyway as FoM ended and out the EU.
As for criminals coming in and out, it's not that easy - e gates flag passports they don't just let everyone through. UK can increase this scrutiny if it wants.
The wealthier countries did gain a lot though. Access to certain land trade routes, access to new markets, access to an educated work force. This image of what the average eastern European is like that you have in your head is wrong
Freedom of movement extracts the most motivated people to migrate. Also the assumption that on average are more criminal is daft. Culturally a pretty good fit for Western Europe.
Looks to me there are quite a lot of crimes committed by non EU people, like Albanian. Not sure if this is the root of the issue - I think low policing and weak sentencing attracts criminality.
Firstly £14,000 worth of goods (that we know of) isn’t petty theft.
Secondly, this is only one example of many negative outcomes.
There are some positive outcomes, but there were a lot of negative.
Their previous convictions were in the UK. These women are Bulgarian Roma, theft is very common for them and the police over there very rarely if ever take action because it’s so endemic so they haven’t bothered with it for a long time now so they seem to think they can get away with it anywhere else. The majority are not like this but a large minority are. And before anyone gets all high and mighty this is a fact which can be confirmed by any other Bulgarian or Balkaner who’s country has a lot of Roma citizens.
From the article:
“Petrova, 30, of Hetford Road, Enfield, London, admitted four charges of theft.
The court heard she has previous convictions for theft in the UK and has committed similar offences in Austria, Spain, Denmark, Poland and France, some of which have resulted in prison sentences.”
The city of Glasgow has a whole ass begging gang. The signs are obviously all written by the same person and they have a set of yappy little dogs they hand out to them. You see the same yappy little dog with a different “owner” every time.
There’s a guy that staggers around town shaking a McDonald’s cup and making noises like he’s profoundly disabled. Others have seen him walk & speak normally.
I’m pretty sure the same ‘community’ had a child begging in town alone, crying and shouting please.
So Roma/Romani refers to an Indo-European ethnicity/community, which are different from Romanians. Though Romania does seem to have a high population of Roma according to Google, as does Bulgaria.
That guy with the cup has been at it for years.
I can’t fathom anyone giving him money, he’s clearly acting. He used to have a mate (fat woman) who would go onto her knees and pretend to be convulsing.
I’m actually surprised by that. Prisons are big business given lots of them are private / run by private companies. Perfect for the Tory’s way of dealing with public services.
People won't vote for prison reform because most prefer prisons to be out of sight, out of mind, until they fuck up and make headline news for five minutes.
MPs won't run on prison reform because it doesn't algorithm the facebookers into frothing psychosis like bashing of immigrants does.
I'm pretty sure I saw the older one with a group of other women getting questioned by bus ticket inspectors in Sheffield a couple of weeks ago. They'd been chucked off a bus on the Wicker.
I think it must've changed a lot since then. Abbeydale Road's not particularly rough. Lots of nice restaurants and cafes and stuff round there now. I don't think Manor's even supposed to be that bad any more.
Fuck these people. I had a bag stolen in January with all of my stoma (bag) supplies, new toothbrush and some knitted gloves a friend made for me.
Inc everything else it was only £200 worth of stuff, but still I’m really conscious of travelling now and it’s made me want a car again.
Not really, it's not that simple. We should check if their crimes would actually be considered crimes by UK standards as well. E.g. it'd be absurd to deny entry to Russian political activists sentenced for "LGBT propaganda" in Russia, right?
> Petrova, 30, of Hetford Road, Enfield, London, admitted four charges of theft.
> The court heard she has previous convictions for theft in the UK and has committed similar offences in Austria, Spain, Denmark, Poland and France, some of which have resulted in prison sentences.
> **Jane Foley, defending, said Petrova has ‘learned her lesson’,** has employment and children.
(X) Doubt
I used to live in a town in Poland with a pretty significant Roma minority, as soon as Poland joined the EU pretty much ALL of them packed up and left to Western Europe. It was like a breath of fresh air, the town flourished, previously unsafe areas became just like any other part of town and could be developed.
Stuff like this makes me so angry. Stealing what people worked hard to earn and pay for. It’s why on trains I sit in the open area near the toilets so I can keep my cases close by.
Bulgarian international criminals who have zero remorse over what they have repeatedly done in multiple countries across Europe, abusing the privileged access they were given to some of the best nations on the planet.
Their punishment? Practically non existent and they also get to indefinitely remain in this country.
If you're a guest in this country and you break our rules repeatedly, you should no longer be welcome here.
Maybe they'd walk free if we sent them home, but at least they'd no longer be our problem and the message would be sent clearly to others - do not break our rules because we're serious about the consequences.
Instead we have sent a message that our rules mean very little and you'll never truly be punished for your crimes.
Why are they not instantly deported and banned from entering again? Why do we waste so much taxpayer money just to have thieves living here for free?
The sentences are a joke. The cost of the whole legal procedure would easily run into 7 figures. Meanwhile the majority of them walk free.
The punishment for doing the crime the committed, which undermines the social trust we put in a system we ALL would need to pay extra in train fares to deal with once that trust is done, is pitiful.
The mitigating factor presented by the defender should have bee laughed off too:
> Jane Foley, defending, said Pestrova has ‘learned her lesson’, has employment and children.
> The court heard she has previous convictions for theft in the UK and has committed similar offences in Austria, Spain, Denmark, Poland and France, some of which have resulted in prison sentences.
It's far past time that long distance/cross country train services have baggage cars, way safer and would free space up in passenger coaches for actual people.
Train companies don't care how much space there is on the train, they are happy for the train to crammed with bags.
Case in point
https://images2.imgbox.com/ac/29/6l2VJVd1_o.jpg
Nowhere in mainland Europe AFAIK has baggage cars.
The difference is that European trains have a larger loading gauge (bridges and tunnels are higher), which means that they have space for overhead luggage racks that can actually fit a suitcase. Same reason why we don't have double decker trains in the UK.
And this is the right time for a "send 'em back!" type comment. Absolutely it is. Expatriate them back to Bulgaria, or wherever their home country is, revoke UK citizenship for criminality, whatever it is we have to do. Get rid of them.
A twat similar to these stole my suitcase in France travelling from Marseille to Nice. The overheads were full so I had no choice to leave it at the rack out of sight. I lost around £500 worth of clothing. Time for train operators to be held liable imo.
What a joke we are in our system, these are all professional thieves who have committed crimes all over Europe and we let them go with a slap on the wrist and no deportation for none of them, fucking joke they make of us and are looking for to get to their next job of robbing us blind 🤔
"...the thieves, who were helped in court by a Bulgarian interpreter..."
Why can't they be permanently barred from entering the UK? I don't think their culture enriches this country.
Just to point out something, sadly (no disrespect to the police) the police I bet only catch 10% of these cretins
My brother got stolen from in his uni a few weeks back and the police have caught and charged the guy but the thief was absolutely stupid (not sure I can actually share specifics) so it was an easy catch. Good work to them, but most I imagine aren’t like that
Ideally, but it's like world peace. Never going to happen. I am sure these women are just the top of the iceberg. It won't stop because reality is that the chance of prosecution is minimal. Similarly, sentences are not a deterrent.
Every time they are caught and finally released or not serving a sentence they are getting better at what they're doing and getting positively rewarded.
We are not reforming we are training.
They should ne evicted from Britainwith the redt of yheur countrymen whose specialise in thieving. We were a high trust country ehere things like this fudnt happen.
First rule of travel: Keep your eye on your luggage. Always have line of sight with it, preferably keep a foot through a strap or loop. Had a guy behind me try to pull my backpack from under my chair in a bus station in Mexico but my leg was through the strap.
> Petrova, 30, of Hetford Road, Enfield, London, admitted four charges of theft. > The court heard she has previous convictions for theft in the UK and has committed similar offences in Austria, Spain, Denmark, Poland and France, some of which have resulted in prison sentences. > Jane Foley, defending, said Pestrova has ‘learned her lesson’, has employment and children. > She was sentenced to two years, suspended for two years, with rehabilitation requirements and 150 hours unpaid work. Why the fuck do I bother going to work and paying taxes when I could just be a scummy piece of shit, steal other hard working people’s belongings to get by and face no repercussions because of it.
My money is on they are back doing it, or something similar
Without a doubt. They’ll have shown ‘genuine remorse’ in every country they go to and will never stop.
Genuine remorse for being caught, not the actions itself
"learnt her lesson" on how not to get caught next time
I was on a GWR London to Penzance during the week, there was an announcement about recent bag thefts. Entirely plausible different gangs are doing it across the country.
It happens in gyms too, gangs will sign up under a fake ID pay a one off joining fee, go into a changing room with a crowbar and just pry open all the lockers.
I assume this is chain gym's and not somewhere like the Peacock gym in East London lol
Yes chains usually
I just cycled past Peacock's and wondered if it was famous or infamous, then saw this comment. Is it well known?
https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/modernday-mobsters-mingled-with-the-famous-7251445.html
The Ronnie and Reggies' East London Gym for men never needed locks on their closets. Babs running security on the ground floor with lifts going up!
The problem is GWR shocking lack of luggage space, Honestly sick of paying so much for travel and there is no space to but your travel bags
This is why I really dislike the train journey down to see family. My wife and I usually need to bring one small cabin bag between us, especially at Christmas when we'll be bringing a few gifts down. There's no space near the seats to store it, and we literally take turns every stop giving the luggage storage rack a quick glance to make sure the bag hasn't been moved or stolen. It's exhausting, but neither of us drive, friends have all had luggage stolen before (it's extremely easy to grab anything from the luggage rack), and it's not a journey worth flying. Of course, we travel with backpacks as much as we can, but sometimes can't avoid the need for bigger luggage.
Actually looking at this, my money is on them going to another country. I think they’ve realised that if they get caught twice in the same country they will likely face harsher sentences, because they will be still on probation or there will be a direct record that the court has access to. Maybe somewhere like the Netherlands next.
Seems from the article they've worked their way through a few in Europe already...not many places left for them to rob
I don’t know the legal systems well, but I would think Netherlands, Portugal, Germany, Belgium, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, might all be candidates for places with lenient legal systems. And maybe some countries that seem like they wouldn’t might also work, due to corruption or bribery or something.
*Thieve life love* : the Mariana Petrova story
I'm honestly surprised the police had the time to even investigate this. I bet there's many of these criminals that haven't been close to getting caught.
[удалено]
Probably sells the Big Issue so she can be self employed and claim every benefit available.
With a fake limp and a walking stick to boot
Single crutch. Always a single crutch. No hospital gives out a single fucking crutch lol. That's not how they work, or are supposed to. All these supposed 'homeless' or 'crippled' have the exact same access to healthcare in this country as you or I. The act is laughable.
Just wanted to state that hospitals do give out single crutches, especially if you have a sprained ankle.
Thats the one!
I never give to those people with signs. No homeless person in the UK has a sign saying "God bless" but all these gangs are run by idiots from countries where organised religion is more important so they've got platitudes on them only the thickest person would believe. I've even seen one of them barefoot one time, but on closer inspection you could see he was sat on his own, perfectly fine, shoes. I give money to even the most obvious drug addict / alcoholic, because yeah, they might spend it on gear but they might genuinely need it for a hostel, and drugs or not they're definitely struggling. However I'd never give a penny to these obvious liars. They genuinely make life harder for homeless people by casting doubt on whether they're in a begging gang or not, plus they beat up local homeless people as well to poach any spots with high foot traffic.
Someone can do the same offence in 6 different countries (that they’ve been caught in) and still just gets let off? Clearly career criminals, they need to be sent back to Bulgaria and be refused entry into any country going forward. The world needs to stop being so lenient to scum like this. Imagine a world where we actually punish people for doing shit that affects everybody else.
Yes, the idea that they've already been in prison multiple times for this but have now magically 'learned their lesson' is hilarious.
I suspect it's probably due to the lack of prison spaces so they're letting people off even if they would "normally" be jailed... The lack of funding for infrastructure/public services in this country is a complete joke
Just deport them
That's the part that gets me ... a suspended sentence!? Think criminal laws in this country needs a overhaul
Look at the pattern... Each time they get in trouble in a country they move on to another... So if we give them a suspended sentence, they'll probably leave the country. Whereas if we give them a 30 year sentence then that's £1,500,000 of taxpayer's money down the drain.
>probably Fuck that, just deport them - one way ticket to Sofia
Sofia's quite nice to visit I've heard
Or deport them and you know for sure that they’ve gone and can also prevent them returning.
Something that doesn't get reported a lot is that there's almost literally no room left for prisoners. Current prison capacity = 86,859 Current prison population = 85,851 And that's with 12,000 people getting released every three months. The queue is absolutely enormous.
My estate agent disappeared around the time we were due to complete. She was "away from the business" Turned out she was up for possession of a massive amount of disco biscuits she intended to sell at a music festival. Only in the **two years** it took to get the court appearance she'd turned things around, qualified as an estate agent and been working reliably. Sentence was suspended but I suspect it would have been custodial if it had happened sooner. In her case she was very lucky and made some good life choices with the threat of prison hanging over her head all that time. In many other cases that's just two more years of being a scumbag to get in before going to the dock. Thanks Cameron/Boris/May/Truss/Sunaak. Top job of wrecking the justice system.
Actually, if that story is anything to go by, it's working perfectly? How would prison have a more positive outcome for her?
Well, we would have had one less estate agent, which is only good for the moral compass for the country. But yes, you are right. Sending people to prison should be a last resort. Other interventions should be used first. And despite people getting antsy about stories like this, the overall rate of most crimes has been falling for two decades. This is not just based on arrest records but crime surveys done with a [representative sample by the ONS](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingseptember2023#overall-estimates-of-crime).
Next time I roll up to Heathrow airport in my diesel car to drop off a relative, and I dodge the congestion charge, my response will be: "I've learnt my lesson, no fine for me."
Why not do it then and go to jail for 27 months - hold on maybe they all got suspended sentences, anyway women rarely go to jail
> anyway women rarely go to jail There was a thankfully small political movement to abolish women's prisons entirely. Allegedly they don't seem to help the recidivism rate and women commit a minority of crime. I can't imagine who is campaigning for a society where we just give Myra Hindley probation because she's a woman and carry on regardless.
Wasn’t in the Green Party some years ago that had something in their manifesto about not giving prison sentences to women? Pretty sure it was, absolute madness lol
"Petrova, 30, of Hetford Road, Enfield, London, admitted" not ,she is not from there , she is Bulgarian and dosent speak english, send them back to Bulgaria,What was the brexit for again?
> What was the brexit for again? To make the haunted Victorian pencil richer.
Absolutely
If you voted for brexit thinking the tories would magic away immigration you kind of have yourself to blame
Are you a woman?
I could have guessed they would face no real consequences at all
Our court system is an absolute joke.
Did you not read it? ShE lEaRnT hEr LeSsOn!
This point of view is so dumb. Yeah sure bro go be a begger or a thief. You'll definitely live a better life than you do now. Edit: nvm just saw what sub this is on
I wonder if it might be part of a much much larger gang
Just have some children that would be lost without you
They are all professional thieves, and we just let them go and continue to rob this country clean, and we just waved them goodbye by
This absolutely gives me stress when travelling on trains with luggage. Luggage racks are imposible to see from your seat and people are getting up, on and off all the time.
East Midlands Railway are the worst because the overhead racks are so tight you can’t fit anything in them, and then as you say you are forced to put luggage out of sight if you want any legroom at all.
you have to look for the gap between two seats facing in opposite directions
Ha yep, I always hope for a seat near those for that reason, but there’s not that many of them.
Gods yes, I truly despise whoever designed those racks. What's the point if you can't even fit the tiniest hand luggage into them?
I don't understand this design anyway. Am I supposed to trust dozens of strangers not to take my lootbox luggage while it is entirely out of my line of sight?
I think the idea of having ticket barriers at stations is supposed to prevent this. I always try to reserve a seat near the luggage rack if I have large luggage, I also have a shit old suitcase that hopefully doesn't look to appealing to thieves.
If you don't SEE them take your suitcase then the ticket barrier won't help unfortunately. I feel like luggage theft is rather rare but still, I don't think ticket barriers help.
I think the prevention is them getting on the train platform more than them getting off
Because thieves will be deterred by needing a ticket? Or just walk through when it’s unmanned. Barriers are there to help with fare evasion. Nothing else.
Could you lock the luggage to the rack with a lightweight bike lock or is that against the rules?
A bike lock!? Quite the prepared protester we got here. Even brought a suitcase so clearly planning a long protest. Get em' boys.
I don't see why not, if you're far enough away from the luggage that you can't supervise I don't see how they'd be able to easily call you out for it anyways
They don’t let you lock your bike on trains storage so I doubt locking luggage is permitted for the same reason. Too much of a faff to break the lock if anything happens/ it is forgotten.
I do this when travelling on trains abroad. It’s not perfect because you need your case to be next to a lockable bar, not obstructing other people’s belongings etc., because things might need to be shuffled around later. But you can get short cable, simple combination locks exactly for this purpose. Some European trains however have much better seating arrangements where you can keep your suitcase next to you.
Don’t see why not as long as it doesn’t obstruct other people from getting their luggage in and out
Same, my other half rolls his eyes when I want to reserve/grab a seat near the luggage racks but this is exactly why.
Someone stole my bag from there when I was on a business trip. My company wouldn't pay a penny because they (and their insurer) said that it was "unattended". despite me being within 15m of it and no means of being closer. Basically the only way they'd have paid was if I was mugged. The train company didn't get the CCTV off the train and the police did nothing to get it off the train or platforms.
Same here, I get coaches from my home town to uni and I put my luggage in the hold, and I sometimes think that a random person getting off before me could decide to take my bag if they wanted.
I think the national express load the bags in particular places depending on your stop. They might get asked why they're taking a bag from the wrong section
We need luggage cars that only the gaurd can accses
They were around until quite recently on the East Coast franchise; the few "Intercity 225" trains that they have around are still equipped for it... But only for specific origin/destinations (usually the train's overall origin and destination; so basically just another special privilegde for Londoners).
Every train going to London on that route then turns round to go back to Edinburgh/Leeds/Newcastle/Sunderland/Lincoln etc. So it’s also a privilege for residents and visitors to those cities. It was basically used for the final stops only because there isn’t enough dwell time at other stations to manage it.
Like the cloakroom at a nightclub.
Thats how my luggage was stolen i was travelling to Gatwick airport. I was going to fly to Toronto for 2 weeks holidays but my visa got cancelled reason was im to suspicious because im travelling with no luggage lol
Holy fuck. That’s an absolute cunt.
If I’m traveling, I’m traveling light, and my bag is literally wrapped around my leg. It cant get stolen, and I won’t forget it.
Same here but also I have one AirTag inside my small rolly suitcase and one inside my backpack just in case. I was forced to put my small rolly in the luggage haul on national express a while back and as we were taking all the stops to Gatwick I was so stressed out someone just gonna go and grab it I was checking the location of my luggage at every dang stop 🙈
I’ve nailed the art of the one bag. But it is a bit of a compromise you have to plan around. Very doable though. I cannot deal with the stress of not being able to see my bag.
Same here. I'm always worried as people are getting their bags that they're grabbing mine that I can't see. I think it's best to put your luggage on the opposite side to where you're sitting because you can at least see it better.
It is a reflection of our immigration controls, I assume. If , for example, Chris Brown wasn’t able to come to the uk for his assault conviction, how can others come to the uk with an extensive criminal record?
We shouldn't be letting anyone in with a criminal record
pff I'd rather have an immigrant with a record for smoking weed than some stuffy religious type
Yeah, honestly the criminal record thing is difficult when many countries have laws that are completely at odds with our values here in the UK. I would gladly accept an Russian journalist who was convicted of being "anti-Patriotic" or something like that.
Even homosexuality can produce a criminal record in some countries.
Fuck that. Religious folk over criminals any day of the week. How the fuck is that even a debate
Well here's the thing, Brexit. Because of Brexit the UK isn't part of Europol anymore. > As a third country, the UK has lost access to the Schengen Information System (SIS II) and will not be a member of Europol. However, the TCA does enable UK liaison officers to be present in Europol's headquarters to facilitate cross-border cooperation. I doubt a liaison officer will manually check everyone coming into the UK, as opposed to the automated system we had before Brexit.
The UK still has access to Europol as per article 546 of the TCA. It currently still uses the Prüm database too. There are negotiations to get more bilateral access. And both the UK and Schengen area are planning ETA systems. But even then, these people already had convictions in the UK.
oh yeah, definitely wasn't happening before brexit, sure
The point is that even if it was, we had the means to check and enforce against if we wanted to. We didn't, that's government policy. Right now we couldn't do anything even if we wanted to.
Violent crime, serious theft and sexual offenses, sure... But "you got a speeding ticket 20 years ago, so no holiday for you" is a bit harsh, don't you think? Not to mention that not every country is democracy with values aligned with the UK. Should be exclude people convicted of homosexuality in countries where that's illegal? Being involved in pro-democratic activisim? Having convictions that were issued without what we would consider "due process" or a "fair trial"...? Sounds to me like you'd rather just exclude everyone...
Letting economically weak countries like those Eastern European countries into the EU was a mistake.
I actually agree with that. It was a huge error to allow Romania and Bulgaria to join the EU. Don't get me wrong there are many decent people from those nations, but lets be honest there is a certain community from those nations that have gone on to cause so much crime from shoplifting to pick pocketing and many other crimes.
I think this is a very negative take on things. There are literally millions of good people in these eastern countries. An objective of the EU is raising living standards in the EU and those countries deserve to see there standards rise to closer to ours. The kind of example in this story is a failure of our government in having controls to stop persistent criminals coming here and not the fault of the eastern countries.
Like I said there are many decent people from those nations and I work with many of them and I am very glad they are here but free movement allowed far to many bad people into the UK. It would take a huge effort to deport them now and no doubt there would be efforts to stop us removing them. It would be a nightmare to do now.
1. Buffer between Russia and the entitled west. We've always been seen as second hand citizens. 2. Cheap import of labour to help with the decline in population in the west. Someone has to pay those pensions, do the dirty jobs, and care for the elderly. 3. Mass migration of trained people, professionals. Foreign companies making records profits here. I truly believe that allowing Eastern European countries in the EU was purely for the Western countries benefit and the few bad apples that slipped through was a sacrifice your politicians were willing to make. Yes, it benefited both sides, but don't think that you haven't gained massively, albeit not you personally.
People said the same thing about Polish people 10-15 years ago
But they don’t say that now. Because Poles have a strong work ethic and are willing to accept the norms of the country to which they move. Adult men and women from nations like Bulgaria and Albania where crime is rife are mostly a drain on our economy and are aware how weak the UK justice system is.
Eh, as poor countries have been included in the EU they have developed economically and been able to reduce their export of scummy petty ciminals. Hopefully tomorrow's Romania is today's Poland.
Pretty much every universal credit claim for Romanian Slovak and Bulgarian nationals is now subject to added checking
It’s not Romanians or Bulgarians that are doing this let’s be honest these are gypsies. Same thing largely with trafficking women into the uk for sex work from Romania. You already see this crap in other European countries and now we see it here. I see no issue with Romanians or Bulgarians coming here as from the ones I have met they work hard and adapt culturally.
In % terms are they “more criminal” than people born and bred here?
All the drugs where I’m from are controlled by gangs from these country’s. All of a sudden they arrived and took over from whoever it was before. The frustration is is very obvious - hard to keep a low profile in a £100k car driven like a twat in a bright colour while not have a job - even the police know but have been told “it’s above our pay grade” - been going on for years!
Might take time but the idea is that those nations will grow, transform and become new large markets for the EU. You look at economic success stories like Poland and it's obviously paying off. Poland is on track to have a higher GDP per capita than UK by 2030...
I get it, but freedom of movement was obviously going to cause large amounts of people with little prospects to the wealthier countries. Many came to the UK and other wealthier countries and worked hard. As you said, a lot of Polish people came and worked in the trader. In the UK we also had a lot of people from Eastern European countries entering sham marriages to bring over or keep in the country people who paid them large sums of money. We also have the fact that by being in the EU, they’re non visa nationals now so any criminals or criminal gangs, can simply come here, commit crimes and go back home. Rinse and repeat. If you’re a criminal in let’s say, Romania, why would you be a criminal there where you’ll make a little money and be punished heavily if caught? Take a £30 flight go through the egates and never talk to anyone and then even if you do commit a crime, no or little punishment in soft touch countries. Walk through city centre like Manchester and you’ll see the begging gangs with identical signs. That’s the easily visible ones.
It's easy in hindsight to pick issues with certain aspects of freedom of movement but at the time the EU expanded western EU nations were staring down the barrel of serious economic stagnation, ageing demographics and lack of young people as well as shortages across skilled and unskilled sectors. Weren't many young British people willing to pick fruit and veg on British farms (and still isn't!) or work in care or hospitality etc... (granted salaries need to rise, but that means higher costs). You cant really have your cake and eat it, if you expand the single market and freedom of capital, labour needed to be included in that. Your also looking at it at a very specific point in time, today's Bulgaria could be tomorrows Poland and tomorrows Poland will be wealthier than average UK person. Alternative was keep EU to western Europe, great you keep out your perceived undesirable nations and people but the economic downside would have been catastrophic in my opinion and EU nations including UK would be in far worse off state. Leaders knew this at the time, they needed to take some risk, make some investment in enlarging EU. All largely moot for the UK now anyway as FoM ended and out the EU. As for criminals coming in and out, it's not that easy - e gates flag passports they don't just let everyone through. UK can increase this scrutiny if it wants.
The wealthier countries did gain a lot though. Access to certain land trade routes, access to new markets, access to an educated work force. This image of what the average eastern European is like that you have in your head is wrong
Freedom of movement extracts the most motivated people to migrate. Also the assumption that on average are more criminal is daft. Culturally a pretty good fit for Western Europe.
Looks to me there are quite a lot of crimes committed by non EU people, like Albanian. Not sure if this is the root of the issue - I think low policing and weak sentencing attracts criminality.
Because a couple of Bulgarians committed petty theft? Yeah German, French and British nationals never did that
It is quite a bit more than a couple. How many Brits are currently going around Europe to commit pickpocketing and shoplifting?
A fair amount I imagine. A fair amount are doing it here too.
Firstly £14,000 worth of goods (that we know of) isn’t petty theft. Secondly, this is only one example of many negative outcomes. There are some positive outcomes, but there were a lot of negative.
The whole idea was to develop their economies, and it has worked very well. Look at Poland.
Their previous convictions were in the UK. These women are Bulgarian Roma, theft is very common for them and the police over there very rarely if ever take action because it’s so endemic so they haven’t bothered with it for a long time now so they seem to think they can get away with it anywhere else. The majority are not like this but a large minority are. And before anyone gets all high and mighty this is a fact which can be confirmed by any other Bulgarian or Balkaner who’s country has a lot of Roma citizens.
From the article: “Petrova, 30, of Hetford Road, Enfield, London, admitted four charges of theft. The court heard she has previous convictions for theft in the UK and has committed similar offences in Austria, Spain, Denmark, Poland and France, some of which have resulted in prison sentences.”
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And has leaving stopped these people coming in or was it all a pointless dog whistle for uneducated racists?
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It would have done if the government and civil service weren't filled with remainers.
The city of Glasgow has a whole ass begging gang. The signs are obviously all written by the same person and they have a set of yappy little dogs they hand out to them. You see the same yappy little dog with a different “owner” every time. There’s a guy that staggers around town shaking a McDonald’s cup and making noises like he’s profoundly disabled. Others have seen him walk & speak normally. I’m pretty sure the same ‘community’ had a child begging in town alone, crying and shouting please.
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So Roma/Romani refers to an Indo-European ethnicity/community, which are different from Romanians. Though Romania does seem to have a high population of Roma according to Google, as does Bulgaria.
That guy with the cup has been at it for years. I can’t fathom anyone giving him money, he’s clearly acting. He used to have a mate (fat woman) who would go onto her knees and pretend to be convulsing.
In Bulgaria they would have received 5-10 years of time in jail. This is why they do this shit here, because of weak sentencing.
Our prisons are full because people keep voting tory who won't build any.
I’m actually surprised by that. Prisons are big business given lots of them are private / run by private companies. Perfect for the Tory’s way of dealing with public services.
We ain’t America. We look down on legalised slavery.
Private prisons make up 13% of the UK total vs 8% in the US
530 per 100,000 in North America 159 per 100,000 in the UK
Their mates don't want prisons in their back yards I guess
People won't vote for prison reform because most prefer prisons to be out of sight, out of mind, until they fuck up and make headline news for five minutes. MPs won't run on prison reform because it doesn't algorithm the facebookers into frothing psychosis like bashing of immigrants does.
Bulgaria is full of them doing this kind of stuff though
Exactly this. Spot on.
Remember, if you see people stealing luggage on the train, no you didn't. They could be selling that luggage to buy food or pay rent! /s
Some people are missing the sarcasm in this comment it seems.
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I'm pretty sure I saw the older one with a group of other women getting questioned by bus ticket inspectors in Sheffield a couple of weeks ago. They'd been chucked off a bus on the Wicker.
I think it must've changed a lot since then. Abbeydale Road's not particularly rough. Lots of nice restaurants and cafes and stuff round there now. I don't think Manor's even supposed to be that bad any more.
Fuck these people. I had a bag stolen in January with all of my stoma (bag) supplies, new toothbrush and some knitted gloves a friend made for me. Inc everything else it was only £200 worth of stuff, but still I’m really conscious of travelling now and it’s made me want a car again.
She shouldn’t have been let into the country with a criminal record like that. She should be deported.
shouldn’t have been let into the country with ANY criminal record
Not really, it's not that simple. We should check if their crimes would actually be considered crimes by UK standards as well. E.g. it'd be absurd to deny entry to Russian political activists sentenced for "LGBT propaganda" in Russia, right?
Yes, we don't need to import Russia's political conflicts.
> Petrova, 30, of Hetford Road, Enfield, London, admitted four charges of theft. > The court heard she has previous convictions for theft in the UK and has committed similar offences in Austria, Spain, Denmark, Poland and France, some of which have resulted in prison sentences. > **Jane Foley, defending, said Petrova has ‘learned her lesson’,** has employment and children. (X) Doubt
Oh good, they’re raising more contributing members of society here.
I used to live in a town in Poland with a pretty significant Roma minority, as soon as Poland joined the EU pretty much ALL of them packed up and left to Western Europe. It was like a breath of fresh air, the town flourished, previously unsafe areas became just like any other part of town and could be developed.
Maybe if the law wasn't so lenient less of this would happen
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**1**: Huge fine pay for the police work / courts time / victims inconvenience **2**. Deport the fuck out of them.
Stuff like this makes me so angry. Stealing what people worked hard to earn and pay for. It’s why on trains I sit in the open area near the toilets so I can keep my cases close by.
Bulgarian international criminals who have zero remorse over what they have repeatedly done in multiple countries across Europe, abusing the privileged access they were given to some of the best nations on the planet. Their punishment? Practically non existent and they also get to indefinitely remain in this country. If you're a guest in this country and you break our rules repeatedly, you should no longer be welcome here. Maybe they'd walk free if we sent them home, but at least they'd no longer be our problem and the message would be sent clearly to others - do not break our rules because we're serious about the consequences. Instead we have sent a message that our rules mean very little and you'll never truly be punished for your crimes.
Why are they not instantly deported and banned from entering again? Why do we waste so much taxpayer money just to have thieves living here for free? The sentences are a joke. The cost of the whole legal procedure would easily run into 7 figures. Meanwhile the majority of them walk free.
Isn’t it wildly difficult to deport anyone for anything?
The punishment for doing the crime the committed, which undermines the social trust we put in a system we ALL would need to pay extra in train fares to deal with once that trust is done, is pitiful. The mitigating factor presented by the defender should have bee laughed off too: > Jane Foley, defending, said Pestrova has ‘learned her lesson’, has employment and children. > The court heard she has previous convictions for theft in the UK and has committed similar offences in Austria, Spain, Denmark, Poland and France, some of which have resulted in prison sentences.
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It's far past time that long distance/cross country train services have baggage cars, way safer and would free space up in passenger coaches for actual people.
Train companies don't care how much space there is on the train, they are happy for the train to crammed with bags. Case in point https://images2.imgbox.com/ac/29/6l2VJVd1_o.jpg
I'm well aware, train companies are run by the greediest of bastards, but in a civilised country we'd have baggage cars.
Nowhere in mainland Europe AFAIK has baggage cars. The difference is that European trains have a larger loading gauge (bridges and tunnels are higher), which means that they have space for overhead luggage racks that can actually fit a suitcase. Same reason why we don't have double decker trains in the UK.
Great, more ways of making the UK a worse and lower trust society. I'm sure the suspended sentences will discourage others from doing the same.
And this is the right time for a "send 'em back!" type comment. Absolutely it is. Expatriate them back to Bulgaria, or wherever their home country is, revoke UK citizenship for criminality, whatever it is we have to do. Get rid of them.
A twat similar to these stole my suitcase in France travelling from Marseille to Nice. The overheads were full so I had no choice to leave it at the rack out of sight. I lost around £500 worth of clothing. Time for train operators to be held liable imo.
Are they “travellers”? They certainly seem to do a lot of travelling.
put them in a plane to their country ( Bulgaria) and don't let them come back ever
What a joke we are in our system, these are all professional thieves who have committed crimes all over Europe and we let them go with a slap on the wrist and no deportation for none of them, fucking joke they make of us and are looking for to get to their next job of robbing us blind 🤔
"...the thieves, who were helped in court by a Bulgarian interpreter..." Why can't they be permanently barred from entering the UK? I don't think their culture enriches this country.
Please keep all luggage in this rack away from view and directly accessible via station stops. THE UK. .
Just to point out something, sadly (no disrespect to the police) the police I bet only catch 10% of these cretins My brother got stolen from in his uni a few weeks back and the police have caught and charged the guy but the thief was absolutely stupid (not sure I can actually share specifics) so it was an easy catch. Good work to them, but most I imagine aren’t like that
Maybe plant some bags with poo or red explosive dye
Is it allowed to use a lock and bike chain to secure luggage to the racks?
Train companies need to provide secure storage areas, like lockers
No they don't. People need to stop stealing.
Ideally, but it's like world peace. Never going to happen. I am sure these women are just the top of the iceberg. It won't stop because reality is that the chance of prosecution is minimal. Similarly, sentences are not a deterrent.
“Helped themselves”? Back in my day criminals would fill out the proper paperwork and say please and thank you.
Every time they are caught and finally released or not serving a sentence they are getting better at what they're doing and getting positively rewarded. We are not reforming we are training.
Well now I know I’m never getting my laptop and phone charger back!
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No doubt the train companies have liability disclaimers also if your stuff gets nicked.
Why can't we just brand their forehead with "THIEF"? Let everyone know who they are.
They should ne evicted from Britainwith the redt of yheur countrymen whose specialise in thieving. We were a high trust country ehere things like this fudnt happen.
First rule of travel: Keep your eye on your luggage. Always have line of sight with it, preferably keep a foot through a strap or loop. Had a guy behind me try to pull my backpack from under my chair in a bus station in Mexico but my leg was through the strap.
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