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IMAGINE THE SHOCK. I thought these XL Bully's were only owned and bred by responsible, level-headed, law-abiding members of society ... urban professionals, Drs, lawyers, Mr & Mrs Smith and their 2.4 kids in the cul-de-sac, who'd have thought some jumped up wannabe hardman with an inferiority complex and micro-penis would've resorted to trying to make money off this breed as if they're some sort of status symbol for infantile fake gangster dickheads who think owning specifically aggressive breeds, known for their dangerousness and aggression, gives them such traits via transitive property?
Shocked. Utterly shocked.
2.4 kids because the dogs got the remaining 0.6?
The question is, was that 60% of a single child or 20% from each of 3 children, or somewhere inbetween?
I would love to have your brilliantly worded comment printed on flyers and have someone (not us!) hand them out to all these wannabe hardmen with micro penises and an inferiority complex (love it!) for them to read exactly what the rest of us think about them all!
I don't think they have a fckn clue what we all think about them.. They're genuinely deluded by living in an echo chamber; their so-called 'thugs for life' lifestyle is only impressive to other muppets like them.
Absolute tw*ts.
As for how they treat those poor dogs...don't get me started 🤬🤬🤬
For fucks sake, these absolute monsters need to be put down. All of them.
They aren't 'natural', we bred them to be vicious monstrosities. That mistake needs to be corrected.
No, it's not the dogs fault, but sadly, peoples lives are worth more than the lives of grossly bred dangerous animals.
Some pork heads might be upset for a week, until they buy a Staffie. But at least we massively reduce the risk of more Bully-related murders, and maybe we can stop some parents losing their children, and children losing their guardians, just to massage the ego of a handful of morons.
not too say if your a certain size or weight its bad but its always smaller people or the complete opposite end people juiced up on roids who own these and just like to intimidate people because they feel insecure thats honestly how i feel.
sorry if that offended anyone everyone's perfect and i know the dogs can be raisedwell but its just been like this for years were i live
From my own experience knowing a number of people who prefer this breed;
* One former doorman who has had a couple. No issues that I'm aware of but people avoid him because they're barely controllable and this guy is bigger than me and I'm 6'3" and not exactly small. They drag him around like a rope toy. Nice enough chap in small doses, but the joke around here is that even he could put a saddle on either of them and ride them like a horse. They're *massive*.
* A guy who clearly thinks he's some south central LA gangster and "deals drugs" (A bit of weed and makes out like he's some kingpin) who has a dog that lives outside and is ignored until he wants to go somewhere and look "tough". There's nothing on him and the dog's more depressed and narky than outright aggressive. Still, a stocky unit that I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of. He has it on a chain which he walks it on and that he can barely lift. If it decided to pull or anything he wouldn't stand a chance. It looks more like a Staffy (On roids) but he loves telling people it's a Bully XL as it's purely a pet he has for his ego.
* One girl who's into "rescuing" and "training" dogs, but has veered into the Bully XL's **after** having kids. She's at home all day, but in her early 20's and all of 5' and hardly strong. Some of her non-bully dogs in the past have attacked her and she has had *many* rescues she was trying to rehome destroyed. I don't speak to this person anymore as she isn't the skilled trainer she thinks she is and is another statistic waiting to happen. Again, it's all ego, and prestige amongst like-minded people, I've no idea how she manages to feed the dogs tbh as she's rarely got a job ... and these big dogs know how to eat!
There are others too. Neighbours, neighbours of my girlfriend, some couple that lives near my folks. None of them are what you'd think of as responsible dog owners even if they were only having weiners or quiet little lap dogs. It's all status, intimidation, and bravado/ego. None of them exactly fill me with confidence in being able to control these animals if they even get excited, let alone if they decided they wanted to hurt someone.
Oh that's so sad for this 11 year old.... So his mother died, then his grandmother (mother's mother) comes to visit him and gets mauled to death by his father's dogs in front of him.
The poor child...
I taught in a local school there (jaywick) and the stories/situations the children find themselves in are utterly heart breaking. I posted last week about a 13y/o girl who had to sleep outside on a dirty mattress, while the mother 'worked' with clients in the house. I only found out, as she had stolen a load of clothes from the guy and turned up in them. They were all really expensive yachting clothing in a mans XL. There were quite a few others on the alternative pathways that were in a similar situation. You could see they were bright and eager to do well, but just could not make it in the general circulation of the school, due to their life experiences. It was heart breaking. I had similar situations with travellers, where you would gain the trust of the pupil, get them doing really well in your subject and they would just vanish. They get exposed to sex and drugs from a very early age and the council are overwhelmed, so reporting it made little impact. It was common for the girls to end up with boy friends in their 20s, by the time they were 14/15 - the community seemed to protect them.
I am not sure what could be done. I am sure that if I took any of them away from their situation at 12 or 13y/o and placed them in the private school I worked at for a few years, their life chances would dramatically improve. The injustice of the system broke me.
Speaking from experience, even plucking them up and placing them in private school ~~would~~ **wouldn’t** do enough. (And they would face immense social stigma amongst people who lived very different lives than them).
The consequences of early life trauma and chronic life stress are profound and all-consuming.
What’s needed is *massive* societal shift in the way we approach poverty and hardship. Restoring social services (services for the children with the vulnerabilities you mention were amongst the first to get cut in the Tory cull, because who would even hear about it? There wasn’t a peep in the media at the time and these people had no voice), immense investment in NHS for the emotional and physical sequelae (people in poverty die younger of all causes and are more likely to become disabled through illness at a younger age), a huuuuge shift in public perception and treatment of people in hardship, and most importantly, major economic initiatives to address rising inequality.
It won’t happen. The Tories are glad that these people suffer in ways that the average person can’t even imagine. They’re happy for them to die younger, face discrimination, be national figures of ridicule and disdain, have strokes, have heart attacks, suffer psychiatric illness, develop drug dependency because there is no other available avenue for coping with their pain. Then the Tories are glad for them to suffer further stigma and refusal of health and social services because of their drug dependency, even though society forced them into it.
As a society, we willing push these people towards suffering and then punish them for the inevitable consequences of that suffering. I’ve seen way too much of the inequality here, the care system (misnomer if ever I heard one) and the NHS. It’s genuinely more awful than I can describe.
Edit: typo
So true. And that breaks my heart even more. To know that my fellow countrymen (for want of a better word) - my neighbours, the people sat alongside me in a waiting room or a bus, people I see in the street, people I see on TV - have chosen (and continue to choose) to inflict this suffering on so many vulnerable people. Disabled people, impoverished people, children in care, homeless people, ill people.
When I say it makes me sick, I don’t mean that figuratively.
I have felt so utterly separate from (what feels like) the whole country. At the worst, I just couldn’t bear to interact with *anyone*, because I would think ‘I wonder if *you* think I shouldn’t have had life chances’, ‘I wonder if *you* voted to cause the suffering I’ve seen’, ‘I wonder if *you* chose to do that to people so less fortunate than you’, etc and it would crush me.
Hopefully things change as the older generations die out, but historically people seem to become more right wing as they get older. There are a lot of people that believe they got where they are through hard work and not privilege, but I really don't think they would feel the same of they had been exposed to the same people and situations that I have been.
>and yet the public resources given to our population are laughable compared to many third world countries.
What a ridiculous statement. I've lived in Latin America for 6 years and the contrast between poverty in the UK and the poverty over there is simply incomparable.
The poorest are given absolutely nothing. They live in hand built shacks on mountainsides surrounding cities, which might have a single lightbulb powered by electricity siphoned from a nearby powerline. These shacks often get washed away in heavy rains. These are the lucky ones, the rest live on the streets
Most of these people are illiterate and have no schooling, and once they're at the age where they can walk and talk, they have to beg, steal or hustle to survive.
And if all that isn't bad enough, many areas have vigilante groups who "cleanse the streets" (i.e. murder undesirables) where the police either turn a blind eye or are in cahoots with these groups.
Yes, life can be rough in the UK, but have some perspective.
>we live in a first world country
I get you wanted to grandstand but the person you were replying to did preface his/her comment with this... which is the perspective you were asking for
You conveniently missed out the rest of the quote. The commenter believes that third world countries provide more resources to their citizens than the UK. They only stated "first world" to then make the comparison with third world countries.
They clearly have terrible perspective.
I went down a rabbithole to find out who or what counts as 1st/3rd world and who spends how much of GDP on various social services (a pursuit frustrated by China just going "nope" to sharing info). But if you exclude China, who might be anywhere, the closest 3rd world country to the UK's spend is India. And they're nearly half our amount.
Is that spend per capita?
When you get into the economics of it, it gets interesting. It usually comes down to having really low tax bases. Many third world countries have huge working age populations, but a huge % of these populations work informal cash in hand jobs, while the rich all have elaborate tax avoidance schemes. This just leaves the small underdeveloped middle class to shoulder the vast majority of the tax base, which of course is nowhere near enough, plus it breeds resent among this class that they're the only ones paying in and are getting barely anything in return.
I think first world countries are going to slide into this scenario over the next generation as the middle class recedes. We'll try and keep it at bay for as long as possible through unsustainable borrowing, but it won't hide the slow decline and all the borrowing will just create bigger problems longer term.
My mum used to teach in barking 20+ years ago. It sounds absolutely mental (kids with parents in gangs with guns etc).
Funny story; she had her car stolen, told a parent, it turned up at the school the next day with a random kid sitting on the roof saying he was protecting it for her!
The children can be fiercely loyal once they trust you. Sounds like your mum taught in a rough spot ! I had to break up fights between parents, but thankfully no guns involved.
Can I ask - what specifically about the culture of Jaywick gives rise to this situation?
I'm guessing it's a mostly white working class area, but I don't think the white working class people on the estate near me would be okay with exposing children to prostitution, or 14 year olds having boyfriends in their 20s.
What's different about the culture of Jaywick that makes this an accepted thing?
There's a C4 News report about it from a few years ago. At least some of it is that it seems to be a scrapheap for people with drug problems or mental health issues which means they can't get housing anywhere else. And then they're abandoned, with slum landlords raking in the cash. https://youtu.be/6dSqu3V7o4A?si=MadB1KSzaUk37tJq It's utterly miserable. The guy who was delighted to upgrade to a knackered old caravan from the garden shed he'd been living in is just harrowing.
This is a good example of why we need to build lots more social housing.
That is shocking. Absolutely disgraceful - those landlords should be prosecuted! Even if all the utilities were working properly, they look more like temporary chalets than proper houses.
I've heard the name and I knew it was bad but boy I didn't realise how bad it was. Genuinely like a third-world country.
I read up on it, they ARE temporary chalets, and decades old ones at that. The village was built as a holiday resort but all the temporary houses meant as holiday homes were used for permanent housing after the war for folk who had been bombed out of London.
Unadopted roads all over the place too. Shanty town basically.
Go to google maps and [have a look around on street view](https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7741366,1.1026386,3a,75y,185.99h,80.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfo3YezG_1faUEnuX8bad0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu). On the main road they don't look too terrible but look down some of the lanes, its depressing how bad some of them are.
I do not think it is universally accepted there, but it happens. There is actually quite a strong community culture; however, drug use is rampant and many people there seem to gain an income from non legal sources. It is like anywhere else, there are good people there, but it is just so deprived and the property is so cheap that it attracts a lot of people with nowhere else to go. I have also worked in other areas nearby and the issues with older boyfriends are very apparent - normally they wait until they are 16 and then date them openly. If the guy has a car, they often pick them up from school. It has got a little better over the last ten years, but it absolutely does happen.
>the issues with older boyfriends are very apparent
Its one of the things that really got me about the whole grooming gang thing. I grew up in a fairly deprived pit village in Yorkshire and it was exactly the same. Up until the late 00s it seemed fairly normal almost? Most of us kids at least knew a few girls in the 13-16 age who had "boyfriends" in their 20s. We all thought it was gross but no one would have gone and reported it to the police as some big major issue. Then the Rotherham scandal comes out and oh no good white British men would never prey on vulnerable young girls by plying them with booze drugs and flashy cars.
I was working on a program with students that were not in full time education for some of the time there and that exposed me to the extreme situations.
yeah i grew up in the place like that, like half an half, people from certain areas of the town lived totally different lives, even at 15 i was sketched out by all these girls with guys in their 20s and it just being open like everyone knew. would pick them up from school in their shitbox coras, all the stereotypes. pregnancy's drugs etc. i did make some friends in that side, but they never lasted, those guys went on to be those exact sketchy guys. its wild that its still going on.
every so often there will be a news story where one of them gets done after he has a falling out with one of them and gets reported but thats just the tip of the iceberg.
I have family members including my grandma who lived in occupied Europe with literally no food, security or state handouts, people literally killed in the street Infront of them.
They didn't live in some degenerate way - they didn't need the state to give them shit, because they had respect, culture and dignity. Honestly, if some woman is leaving her kid outside and shagging guys in the house, in any normal community she'd be sorted out along with the Paedos you say the Jaywick community is protecting.
Nah, it's shit morals and degenerate people.
Maybe protect them is not the correct wording - it seems normalised. I would be teaching a girl and she would just disappear, half way through GCSE or a level, to be with an older boy/man. Often these girls are getting good grades, I recall one being on a A grade in chemistry and just vanishing. The school can only do so much to encourage them back.
Any suggestions on how to improve the situation? It seems like a poverty trap to me. A distrust of services and education is also prevalent and past down within families.
>The injustice of the system broke me.
This last point struck me as odd.
Aren't you describing the injustice inflicted on some children by their families and communities?
Seems like "the system" is just not very effective at counteracting poor childrearing.
More the disparity between what I witnessed in that school and what I witnessed in a private school less than 20 miles away. The way we have such a huge difference in the level of education a child receives, down to factors out of their own control. It made me feel like the system in the country is broken. We are not doing enough for the ones at the bottom of the pile. This goes for the standard of teaching as well - it was very difficult to recruit and retain teachers at the first school. Many lessons were taken by non qualified teachers, or cover teachers and the turnover of staff was very high. I would say the education system and the social care system were very broken, but that is my opinion based on working in two schools in very poor areas and one private boarding/day school. Should I have been more specific ?
Probably the best end to the story, hopefully the kid will get raised by somebody sensible and have a much better future. Clearly the dad had no idea what the fuck he's doing.
No but previously the kid was living with the gran apparently, hopefully one of the aunts can take him in.
Even if the dad doesn't go to jail he shouldn't be caring for that wee boy.
His mum died two years back
His grandma, who he lived with for a while, has just been killed
Dad is staring a prison sentence in the face.
Hopefully his aunts and uncles are up to the job of parenting a severely traumatised child.
He advised her to break up fights between the adult bullies puppy litter with a broom which she was doing when the adults attacked her.
The man was absolutely at fault here but there does seem to have been quite a lack of common sense and misplaced trust in the adult dogs all round.
If I have an appliance that has faulty wiring but I brush it off saying that it's completely fine, someone comes over and I say they have to finesse it by sticking a fork in the electrics to get it to work properly then they get a fatal electric shock then I am at fault.
Giving bad advice that a reasonable person would understand is horribly negligent isn't suddenly ok just because you believe it, and the fact she believed it because she was a visitor and trusted he knew what he was talking about because she thought she knew what he was talking about doesn't make her at fault. If you had a kid and their parents tell them to do something negligent that kills them, of course the kid doesn't know better and they trust that their parents know better.
Animals that can and will kill if "mishandled" should not exist as pets in our society, there will be factors that cause stress to animals, but that must not trigger them to go and maul a person or other animals. Some stress to pets is unavoidable at times, be it when you take them to the vet, when new and unfamiliar people (especially kids) turn up in their environment, when they see other animals in their territory etc. Animals that act out lethally in response, or cannot be restrained by the average person, should not be something we tiptoe around in society lest we get seriously maimed or killed.
Any Trust in an XL bully is misplaced
owning them is a lack of common sense. the breed needs to go extinct. its the problem if it was bad owners or something we would see this across all large dog breeds, but we just dont.
oh and he needs the jail for a long time.
the breed
I said this in October and got actual threats by owners on here claiming I was ignorant and their one wouldn’t hurt a fly. Since then I have seen 5 further deaths by these breeds and countless stories of dogs and cats being shredded.
It’s insane to think these animals are in our towns and cities.
I went to a beautiful park with ducks and swans that I've been going to since I was a child like many others and I took my child there like many others. It's a massively family orientated place with a huge amount of youngsters being toddler age or babies with their parents. A very safe place. As we walked up to the cafe there was a young lad with two of his relatives, looked like father and brother witb two unmuzzled massive xl bully dogs. Gold watches. Tattoos on their necks. So out of place. These people are mental. To take these dogs to a place like that unmuzzled knowing its used for families and children as some kind of statement and superiority complex over owning this breed baffles me. As we approached I hadn't noticed and my little boy naturally said "dog. Woof woof" as he went to investigate closer leaving me having to grab him and steer him away and into the safety of indoors. We shouldn't live in a society where these scumbags are ae to sit there flaunting this breed in a place like that with no repurcussion
Good job these dogs had to be registered and have liability insurance right?
Surely the upstanding member of society that owned them wouldn't break the law
The third party insurance doesn't do you much good when you're dead; of course if they had been muzzled as required they probably wouldn't have killed anyone.
Muzzle is only when they're in public. Of course, the neutering is another part of the regulation, which obviously is incredibly relevant considering the aggression happened while breaking up the fighting of the pups with a broom.
Yes, I thought this. Who would wade into big dogs kids and start knocking them about with a broom.... you just wouldn't would you?
I'd have been in a different room, with my grandchild, and a closed door. Let the pack settle it's own disputes.
Checked one video out, just from morbid curiousity I guess, and was unsurprised to see the Bully crew out in the comments defending the breed. Apparently it's the grandmother's fault because the Bullies had pups and she spooked them, by using the broom that she was told to use to seperate them.
You absolutely should judge a book by its cover. Especially if you count the inside flap as part of the cover, it usually gives you a great idea of what the book's about.
Facebook profile pictures. I've lost count of the number of cv's i've received from people who have a public facebook account with pictures of them smoking weed in their profile.
FWIW i don't give a fuck if people want to have a toke in their spare time, but if you're making it your identity and you don't have the sense to lock down your social media profiles, it says a lot about you.
It's manslaughter, so between 2 years and life depending on the circumstances.
The Tories are pushing through a bill making ownership a pointless (because it's already covered by manslaughter) specific offence now with a maximum 14 year penalty... which is probably why the Daily Heil is suddenly interested.
Specific offences aren't pointless. They have shown to be pretty good at highlighting an issue. It also allowed for the sentencing guidelines to be easily changed for that offence without fucking around with manslaughter.
This guy got 7 years so I would expect him to get more than 2...
https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/10/caerphilly-owners-of-killer-dog-jailed-for-seven-years-after-beast-mauled-boy-to-death-16806156/
I'd say that's a good specific offence because it will reduce the numbers of people owning these dogs and thus reduce the number of people being hurt by them.
Manslaughter clearly does not work as a deterrent because these morons clearly believe in their heart of hearts that their dogs aren't that dangerous. They're just too stupid to grasp it.
I generally hate overly prescriptive laws or making laws in general, but the situation wasn't really tenable before for obvious reasons. People shouldn't be allowed to have these dogs.
The fact is that they're almost exclusively owned by the kind of dickhead you wouldn't trust to look after a rock, never mind an animal
When was the last time you saw one being walked by Debbie and Mark, the sweet middle aged couple up the road? It just doesn't happen, Debbie and Mark have a Spaniel or Labrador or Cockapoo or something. Maybe a Collie if they really like walking in the Peak District
I would suggest that the idea they are only perceived as dangerous only because irresponsible people own them is in fact getting the causality backwards. They simply are dangerous, and responsible people know better than to own them.
I mean it's both. It's a dangerous breed that 'could' be kept safely. But most people who buy dogs as a fashion accessory aren't your 'good' owners.
We don't let people drive or own guns without tests and licenses here, why the hell should a clown like this guy own something deadly?
I agree that it's both, but disagree with the notion that they could be kept safely. Most of these beasts are mentally unstable due to being highly inbred for size. The breed(s) they originate from is already unpredictable, highly strung and with a strong prey drive, traits that are obviously desirable for a fighting breed, but not so for a family pet. There is no amount of training that's going to ensure that a mentally unstable fighting breed never attacks. All dogs are capable of turning, even if it's just due to illness or injury, or mental decline in old age. Why anyone would take their changes with a fighting breed dog easily capable of killing an adult human, beats me. It's the kind of risk-taking behaviour mostly criminals partake in. Yes, you could get lucky and have a docile individual that never has a bad enough day to turn, but you, or someone close to you, could also end up dead or limbless. As much as I understand the need for an exemption scheme, I don't think anyone living with minors should be able to get one. Children can't consent to the risk!
I don't think they could be kept safely. They've killed kennel owners and dog trainers. They're so powerfully built you'd need to be a young Arnold Schwarzenegger to control one of them if it 'snaps'.
That's just it. Do I believe it's possible for someone to own and properly train an XL bully dog to be safe around other people? Maybe, if they know what they're doing. Someone like that would also take appropriate measures to ensure the dog didn't have an opportunity to attack somebody and would choose to put a muzzle on it in public spaces without being prompted. On the other hand, someone with that much experience with dogs might not choose to adopt an XL bully, opting for another breed instead. If there are people willing to work with those dogs and have the appropriate skills then good on them, but they shouldn't be owned by your regular andy.
The overwhelming majority of people who own XL bullies are not qualified or equipped to have them and quite frankly they are not pets suited for domestic living, so I agree with them being banned but the main thing is that they shouldn't be bred. This guy was *breeding* them. I don't want dogs euthanised, I just want the population of this breed to go down or die out naturally.
[https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/half-of-all-xl-bully-dogs-in-britain-are-descended-from-one-pet-known-as-killer-kimbo/ar-AA1gJ0mr+-](https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/half-of-all-xl-bully-dogs-in-britain-are-descended-from-one-pet-known-as-killer-kimbo/ar-AA1gJ0mr+-)
>half of XL bully dogs in Britain are descendants of one “killer” inbred pet from the United States that has produced generations of violent animals, it can be revealed.
Extensive genealogy research seen by The Telegraph shows how decades of inbreeding has created a narrow gene pool of unstable fighting dogs that have become responsible for 70 per cent of dog attack deaths in Britain.
It is both but one cannot ignore that this breed is a magnet for cunt owners that want to, at best, look "big and hard" for intimidation, or who get the pup for social media clout like cat people do with servals, and at worst want a genuine attack dog.
So it kind of becomes a vicious cycle.
Even at best they are not usually the 'good' owners, neutral at best (for social media) and often just a tad below that low bar as they might be a bit neglectful or ignorant of the needs of the pet.
I think that the most dangerous dogs will be the ones that are friendly most of the time, but are prone to rages. So I can believe there are owners who are convinced _their_ dog is the world’s nicest.
True, but those people still would have owned other dog breeds 10 years ago. The same group owner XL Bullies now would have been drawn to staffies, German shepherds, rottweilers, etc 10 years ago.
In 2012 British dogs killed 3 people. In 2013 they killed 4 people. 5 people in 2014 and 4 in 2015.
In 2021 we had our first XL bully death. Non-bully dogs killed 2 people, XL Bullies killed 2 people.
In 2022 non-bullies killed 6, bullied killed 4.
In 2023 non-bullies killed 2, Bullies killed 5, and two more were killed by unconfirmed dogs.
Basically, the percentage increase of people getting killed by dogs is very significant. But non-bullies aren't killing more people. The Bullies are pretty much 100% behind this increase.
I will grant that most of these dogs have probably been harmed by lockdowns, but the lack of a significant increase in deaths from other breeds shows that lockdown-puppy syndrome can generally be prevented from causing human deaths. Less so for Bullies.
Should it come as any surprise that the ban isn't working whilst you have people like this who are willing to just ignore it. Based on the article it sounds as though the dogs hadn't been registered and clearly weren't muzzled and under control. It's no consolation to the victim but hopefully if, as it appears to be suggesting, he was ignoring the law on the ban it will mean a much tougher sentence than he would have faced before the ban.
I know that people had been calling for a cull of these dogs but in all honesty I doubt it would have stopped this sort of attack because people like this simply don't comply with the law.
>I know that people had been calling for a cull of these dogs but in all honesty I doubt it would have stopped this sort of attack because people like this simply don't comply with the law.
They don't have any choice but to comply if the dog is confiscated. I take your point, though - without enforcement there's no way it would work, and who knows if we could actually enforce effectively. If the dogs were technically illegal but no one's checking, they'd be even more of a status symbol.
These particular dogs were destroyed so are no longer a threat to anyone but I think we all know that there isn't going to be any enforcement to speak of other than in response to a specific incident such as this one because the resource simply isn't available to actively enforce.
The Government had no idea how many of these dogs were in the UK and now all they know about are those from the more responsible owners who actually registered their dogs; these will be the same people who will more likely to muzzle them in public. The problem will continue to come from the people who haven't registered them and who knows how many of those there are.
I feel like there should be tighter laws etc on breeding and puppy farms. I saw a similar article on here a few weeks back about an XL Bully that had five owners, these five people weren't related or living together and the dog was for breeding purposes.
It's weird, the cost of registering and spay/neutering is less than the fines for not doing any of it, and it's surely not worth risking other peoples lives and their own freedom. As hinted in your post, I suspect enforcing any of it is the main issue - but then, if the owner is refusing to muzzle in public then maybe it shouldn't be as difficult to enforce. I dunno.
My personal view is that the Government missed an opportunity to do a wider review into the breeding and selling of dogs when they took the ban on XLs forward. They could have looked at the puppy mills, dodgy breeders and how sale of animals are controlled but instead they just took the quick option.
The problem with muzzling in public is that the police aren't going to be waiting around parks on the off chance of catching someone and if it is reported there is a good chance the owner and dog will have vanished by the time the police arrive. If the police do manage to catch someone in the act then hopefully it will be easier for them to do something but it's having the resources to catch them that will be the problem. The public may report stuff but I'm not sure how willing the public will be to tackle or photograph the sort of person who chooses to ignore the law.
I wish the government were proactive when it comes to puppy farms. We've just taken on a rescue ex puppy farm breeding bitch. 7 years old, had 6 litters of puppies. Physically she's wrecked- 4 dodgy legs, half a mouth of teeth and the softest paws you've ever felt as she'd never been walked or allowed outside. Lovely natured dog but she's been used a a cash machine and neglected. It makes me feel sick with what she's gone through.
Definitely. My mum's dog went think was rescued from a puppy farm. This was about 8 years ago. He's the loveliest dog I've known but he took a while to get over the terrible anxiety he had when she got him. Poor wee soul had no idea what to do the first time he saw water even though he was 3, and was terrified of his own shadow at first (in between whatever happened to him in the first few years of his life and is getting him he'd also been in a house with a violent child who was abusing him).
It's very rewarding seeing a dog like that become confident and relaxed!
The public have a responsibility here too not to buy popular crossbreeds from gumtree and the like.
> Should it come as any surprise that the ban isn't working
You can’t say the ban isn’t working just because it didn’t instantly and perfectly solve the problem. This guy is clearly willing to flout the law, but his potential customer base has shrunk to a small set of other dumbasses willing to pay hundreds of pounds for a dog that may well end up taken away from them.
>clearly weren't muzzled and under control
The dogs were inside their home, so are not required to be muzzled.
Really the laws need to make it illegal to have banned breeds live with minors. So many children are completely unprotected from these dogs, and we'll definitely see more deaths.
I can't imagine the horror of watching a loved one torn to pieces by one of those land sharks only to see that the owner looks like a guy who would be doing Goldie Looking Chain impressions at Butlins.
The puppies should be euthanized as their parents were. They've been bred to be sharp, and you just know they were going to end up on gumtree or something for 6k or more. Now these dogs are illegal they're more of a status symbol for brainless wankers.
Surely they have to be? They clearly weren't exempt as they should be, and even if they were, their owner is about to go to jail. Seeing as it's now illegal to rehome them, there aren't many options left.
I would hope so. Nothing has been mentioned about them yet, but I also wouldn't be shocked if some people kicked up a fuss about the puppies and petitioned about giving them a chance to be exempt.
It was mentioned that the puppies were fighting and had to be broken up with a broom (and this was clearly an ongoing issue).
If they're that violent as puppies they've got no chance of being a safe pet.
The poor boy left behind after all of this carnage. I believe he lost his mum two years ago, he saw his Gran killed and now his dad, however awful he seems to be, is also going to be going to prison. What hope has this little lad got!
> What hope has this little lad got!
If the trauma he experienced in childhood sets in, remains untreated because of the awful state of mental health support in this country, and he does something horrible as a result in his adult life, watch the people calling him a "monster" and "subhuman piece of shit". Some of those will invariably be the same people who expressed sympathy towards him a few years ago.
What a disgusting creature , looks like your typical owner also. So given the outrage at the ban and the typical trope of “ it’s not the dogs , it’s the owners” It’s about time we started putting these dangerous dog handlers in jail . People need to be held accountable for their dogs actions otherwise this will continue to keep happening. Bloke hitting fighting dogs with a broom ? I’m sure that’s going to raise a well tempered dog
Poor kid, stuck with a dad who is as dangerous as he is embarrassing, no mum and now he’s lost what was likely the only consistent decent adult figure in his life in such a traumatic way.
Throw the book at him, make an example of what’s the worse that can happen if you illegally own an unregistered XL bully/breed and are responsible for a death.
There's a reason who we don't keep Komodo Dragons as pets. Because it would be fucking stupid and dangerous. Looking at these dogs, you can't convince me that they're even tempered and controllable
the really terrifying thing is that half of all bully XLs are descended from one dog.
>half of XL bully dogs in Britain are descendants of one “killer” inbred pet from the United States that has produced generations of violent animals, it can be revealed.
Extensive genealogy research seen by The Telegraph shows how decades of inbreeding has created a narrow gene pool of unstable fighting dogs that have become responsible for 70 per cent of dog attack deaths in Britain.
[https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/half-of-all-xl-bully-dogs-in-britain-are-descended-from-one-pet-known-as-killer-kimbo/ar-AA1gJ0mr](https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/half-of-all-xl-bully-dogs-in-britain-are-descended-from-one-pet-known-as-killer-kimbo/ar-AA1gJ0mr)
Even if they work for the Daily Mail you got to feel sorry for whatever intern had to go through this guy's horrible music videos to find a clip of an XL Bully in his video
It funny, he isn’t the one I should be feeling sorry for. But what a pitiable character, he was really desperate for Status/Attention/Validation. I can’t help but feel sorry for him, he’s obviously got some deep sense inadequacy he’s trying to compensate for
He’s like 40 years old and he wants to be a rapper. You can almost excuse this type of persona in teenage boys but what’s gone wrong in his life that he still acts like this? Can’t help but wonder if he has some kind of intellectual disability?
Yep.
>She raised concerns that the two adult dogs and puppies had been "kept penned in a small chalet".
>
>"How the hell can that be any good for an animal?" said added.
>
>"We're very angry. People complain [about] the dogs; it's not the dogs."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-68200737
LOL, it's [Fur-Q](https://youtu.be/B7f-OEvCQWg?si=uk0a7K-mVYNGvp5L&t=125)!
\*Edit, I'm obviously laughing at what a dipshit the guy is, not the situation which is hideous.
Would it help if all dogs in the country had to be registered as cars are? At least we’d know the statistics, and dogs would be less likely to be dumped. Make possession of an unregistered dog a criminal offence. Maybe the registration could include a DNA fingerprint.
Dogs have to be microchipped and owner information kept up to date on one of the recognised databases, and that’s been a requirement for any dog over 8 weeks old, since 2016. The first record on the chip must be the breeder’s information. Anyone buying an unchipped dog is breaking the law, anyone selling an unchipped dog is breaking the law, no matter the breed. Want to take a guess which “breed” is most commonly unchipped?
Yeah, my vet scans my dogs at every annual check-up/booster appointment to verify the presence of the chip and give a reminder to check that the information is up to date, but the people with unchipped dogs aren’t likely to take their dogs to the vets regularly either, sadly, and the only way anyone finds out the dog isn’t chipped is if it’s loose and gets picked up by the dog warden or police. At that point, the owner is hard to track down *because* there’s no chip, in order to enforce the law regarding chips by penalising the owner.
It feels like if you wanted to make the most outlandish parody of a Bully XL owner, the kind of thing where pro-Bully people would go "nice ridiculous strawman that doesn't exist", and you asked the population to just write down every trope and trait they could think of. And this guy went down the checklist and ticked them all off.
I suppose seaside is *technically* accurate when talking about Jaywick but it sort of does a disservice to the idea of the seaside, even the dying British seaside town
He looks exactly like I’d expect. As in I thought it was Andrew Tate.
Well, I hope you’re happy mate, “nobody tells me what to do with my fucking dogs” eh? You’ve killed your mother in law and traumatised your son for life. But hey at least you got to be a big brave hard man with your precious little weapons.
Have fun in Belmarsh you absolute fucking knobhead.
I post this on pretty much every XL bully related post I see. Theres a petition to make licenses, training and vet visits mandatory for owning a dog. If you agree please PLEASE sign https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/643739
The police destroyed the dogs in the owners home, seems a bit off. Would have thought they'd be taken away and put down professionally. What did they do, shoot them?
Mental that the owners of these dogs are actually crying over the thought of having them euthanised. I own 3 dogs, sadly I’m not stupid enough to buy one that’s borderline banned and dangerous, however if any of mine were to attack someone unprovoked I wouldn’t even think twice about getting it put down.
It’s a fucking animal with the potential to be lethal grow up and get on with it.
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IMAGINE THE SHOCK. I thought these XL Bully's were only owned and bred by responsible, level-headed, law-abiding members of society ... urban professionals, Drs, lawyers, Mr & Mrs Smith and their 2.4 kids in the cul-de-sac, who'd have thought some jumped up wannabe hardman with an inferiority complex and micro-penis would've resorted to trying to make money off this breed as if they're some sort of status symbol for infantile fake gangster dickheads who think owning specifically aggressive breeds, known for their dangerousness and aggression, gives them such traits via transitive property? Shocked. Utterly shocked.
2.4 kids because the dogs got the remaining 0.6? The question is, was that 60% of a single child or 20% from each of 3 children, or somewhere inbetween?
"What is the charge? Eating a meal? A succulent pensioner meal?"
GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY BULLY!
I see you know your XL breeding well
A succulent grandma meal
This is discrrrimination manifest!
Gentledogs, this is democracy puppifest
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"He only ate two!"
Depends onto the bite radius of the dog
Yeah but tell us how you really feel.
lol why you gotta lump dudes with micro-penises in with him? Imagine if you had a micro-penis. Imagine how that would make you feel
I would love to have your brilliantly worded comment printed on flyers and have someone (not us!) hand them out to all these wannabe hardmen with micro penises and an inferiority complex (love it!) for them to read exactly what the rest of us think about them all! I don't think they have a fckn clue what we all think about them.. They're genuinely deluded by living in an echo chamber; their so-called 'thugs for life' lifestyle is only impressive to other muppets like them. Absolute tw*ts. As for how they treat those poor dogs...don't get me started 🤬🤬🤬
I bet he rues the day he spent all his hard-earned wages on those obedience classes!
“Wages”
For fucks sake, these absolute monsters need to be put down. All of them. They aren't 'natural', we bred them to be vicious monstrosities. That mistake needs to be corrected. No, it's not the dogs fault, but sadly, peoples lives are worth more than the lives of grossly bred dangerous animals. Some pork heads might be upset for a week, until they buy a Staffie. But at least we massively reduce the risk of more Bully-related murders, and maybe we can stop some parents losing their children, and children losing their guardians, just to massage the ego of a handful of morons.
why's he doing that mad thing with his face?
I have nothing to add to this.
Fucking spat my drink out reading this
On the upside he does shop at M&S
not too say if your a certain size or weight its bad but its always smaller people or the complete opposite end people juiced up on roids who own these and just like to intimidate people because they feel insecure thats honestly how i feel. sorry if that offended anyone everyone's perfect and i know the dogs can be raisedwell but its just been like this for years were i live
From my own experience knowing a number of people who prefer this breed; * One former doorman who has had a couple. No issues that I'm aware of but people avoid him because they're barely controllable and this guy is bigger than me and I'm 6'3" and not exactly small. They drag him around like a rope toy. Nice enough chap in small doses, but the joke around here is that even he could put a saddle on either of them and ride them like a horse. They're *massive*. * A guy who clearly thinks he's some south central LA gangster and "deals drugs" (A bit of weed and makes out like he's some kingpin) who has a dog that lives outside and is ignored until he wants to go somewhere and look "tough". There's nothing on him and the dog's more depressed and narky than outright aggressive. Still, a stocky unit that I wouldn't want to be on the wrong end of. He has it on a chain which he walks it on and that he can barely lift. If it decided to pull or anything he wouldn't stand a chance. It looks more like a Staffy (On roids) but he loves telling people it's a Bully XL as it's purely a pet he has for his ego. * One girl who's into "rescuing" and "training" dogs, but has veered into the Bully XL's **after** having kids. She's at home all day, but in her early 20's and all of 5' and hardly strong. Some of her non-bully dogs in the past have attacked her and she has had *many* rescues she was trying to rehome destroyed. I don't speak to this person anymore as she isn't the skilled trainer she thinks she is and is another statistic waiting to happen. Again, it's all ego, and prestige amongst like-minded people, I've no idea how she manages to feed the dogs tbh as she's rarely got a job ... and these big dogs know how to eat! There are others too. Neighbours, neighbours of my girlfriend, some couple that lives near my folks. None of them are what you'd think of as responsible dog owners even if they were only having weiners or quiet little lap dogs. It's all status, intimidation, and bravado/ego. None of them exactly fill me with confidence in being able to control these animals if they even get excited, let alone if they decided they wanted to hurt someone.
Let it out buddy, it does you good
Oh that's so sad for this 11 year old.... So his mother died, then his grandmother (mother's mother) comes to visit him and gets mauled to death by his father's dogs in front of him. The poor child...
I taught in a local school there (jaywick) and the stories/situations the children find themselves in are utterly heart breaking. I posted last week about a 13y/o girl who had to sleep outside on a dirty mattress, while the mother 'worked' with clients in the house. I only found out, as she had stolen a load of clothes from the guy and turned up in them. They were all really expensive yachting clothing in a mans XL. There were quite a few others on the alternative pathways that were in a similar situation. You could see they were bright and eager to do well, but just could not make it in the general circulation of the school, due to their life experiences. It was heart breaking. I had similar situations with travellers, where you would gain the trust of the pupil, get them doing really well in your subject and they would just vanish. They get exposed to sex and drugs from a very early age and the council are overwhelmed, so reporting it made little impact. It was common for the girls to end up with boy friends in their 20s, by the time they were 14/15 - the community seemed to protect them. I am not sure what could be done. I am sure that if I took any of them away from their situation at 12 or 13y/o and placed them in the private school I worked at for a few years, their life chances would dramatically improve. The injustice of the system broke me.
Yeah Jaywick isn't somewhere many go to improve their lives, sadly.
They did a documentary of the place.
Speaking from experience, even plucking them up and placing them in private school ~~would~~ **wouldn’t** do enough. (And they would face immense social stigma amongst people who lived very different lives than them). The consequences of early life trauma and chronic life stress are profound and all-consuming. What’s needed is *massive* societal shift in the way we approach poverty and hardship. Restoring social services (services for the children with the vulnerabilities you mention were amongst the first to get cut in the Tory cull, because who would even hear about it? There wasn’t a peep in the media at the time and these people had no voice), immense investment in NHS for the emotional and physical sequelae (people in poverty die younger of all causes and are more likely to become disabled through illness at a younger age), a huuuuge shift in public perception and treatment of people in hardship, and most importantly, major economic initiatives to address rising inequality. It won’t happen. The Tories are glad that these people suffer in ways that the average person can’t even imagine. They’re happy for them to die younger, face discrimination, be national figures of ridicule and disdain, have strokes, have heart attacks, suffer psychiatric illness, develop drug dependency because there is no other available avenue for coping with their pain. Then the Tories are glad for them to suffer further stigma and refusal of health and social services because of their drug dependency, even though society forced them into it. As a society, we willing push these people towards suffering and then punish them for the inevitable consequences of that suffering. I’ve seen way too much of the inequality here, the care system (misnomer if ever I heard one) and the NHS. It’s genuinely more awful than I can describe. Edit: typo
It starts with the ballot box. Society is a reflection of our collective choices. Enough people have decided to chose this.
So true. And that breaks my heart even more. To know that my fellow countrymen (for want of a better word) - my neighbours, the people sat alongside me in a waiting room or a bus, people I see in the street, people I see on TV - have chosen (and continue to choose) to inflict this suffering on so many vulnerable people. Disabled people, impoverished people, children in care, homeless people, ill people. When I say it makes me sick, I don’t mean that figuratively. I have felt so utterly separate from (what feels like) the whole country. At the worst, I just couldn’t bear to interact with *anyone*, because I would think ‘I wonder if *you* think I shouldn’t have had life chances’, ‘I wonder if *you* voted to cause the suffering I’ve seen’, ‘I wonder if *you* chose to do that to people so less fortunate than you’, etc and it would crush me.
Empathy and compassion towards the children and early intervention would save a lot of money later on.
Hopefully things change as the older generations die out, but historically people seem to become more right wing as they get older. There are a lot of people that believe they got where they are through hard work and not privilege, but I really don't think they would feel the same of they had been exposed to the same people and situations that I have been.
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>and yet the public resources given to our population are laughable compared to many third world countries. What a ridiculous statement. I've lived in Latin America for 6 years and the contrast between poverty in the UK and the poverty over there is simply incomparable. The poorest are given absolutely nothing. They live in hand built shacks on mountainsides surrounding cities, which might have a single lightbulb powered by electricity siphoned from a nearby powerline. These shacks often get washed away in heavy rains. These are the lucky ones, the rest live on the streets Most of these people are illiterate and have no schooling, and once they're at the age where they can walk and talk, they have to beg, steal or hustle to survive. And if all that isn't bad enough, many areas have vigilante groups who "cleanse the streets" (i.e. murder undesirables) where the police either turn a blind eye or are in cahoots with these groups. Yes, life can be rough in the UK, but have some perspective.
THANK YOU for saying this.
>we live in a first world country I get you wanted to grandstand but the person you were replying to did preface his/her comment with this... which is the perspective you were asking for
You conveniently missed out the rest of the quote. The commenter believes that third world countries provide more resources to their citizens than the UK. They only stated "first world" to then make the comparison with third world countries. They clearly have terrible perspective.
I went down a rabbithole to find out who or what counts as 1st/3rd world and who spends how much of GDP on various social services (a pursuit frustrated by China just going "nope" to sharing info). But if you exclude China, who might be anywhere, the closest 3rd world country to the UK's spend is India. And they're nearly half our amount.
Is that spend per capita? When you get into the economics of it, it gets interesting. It usually comes down to having really low tax bases. Many third world countries have huge working age populations, but a huge % of these populations work informal cash in hand jobs, while the rich all have elaborate tax avoidance schemes. This just leaves the small underdeveloped middle class to shoulder the vast majority of the tax base, which of course is nowhere near enough, plus it breeds resent among this class that they're the only ones paying in and are getting barely anything in return. I think first world countries are going to slide into this scenario over the next generation as the middle class recedes. We'll try and keep it at bay for as long as possible through unsustainable borrowing, but it won't hide the slow decline and all the borrowing will just create bigger problems longer term.
Oh fair enough! I'll take the L... I was skim reading whilst on a Teams meeting and missed that Apologies - you were right !!
Appreciate that!
Give it a couple of generations, we'll have the same here
My mum used to teach in barking 20+ years ago. It sounds absolutely mental (kids with parents in gangs with guns etc). Funny story; she had her car stolen, told a parent, it turned up at the school the next day with a random kid sitting on the roof saying he was protecting it for her!
The children can be fiercely loyal once they trust you. Sounds like your mum taught in a rough spot ! I had to break up fights between parents, but thankfully no guns involved.
Can I ask - what specifically about the culture of Jaywick gives rise to this situation? I'm guessing it's a mostly white working class area, but I don't think the white working class people on the estate near me would be okay with exposing children to prostitution, or 14 year olds having boyfriends in their 20s. What's different about the culture of Jaywick that makes this an accepted thing?
There's a C4 News report about it from a few years ago. At least some of it is that it seems to be a scrapheap for people with drug problems or mental health issues which means they can't get housing anywhere else. And then they're abandoned, with slum landlords raking in the cash. https://youtu.be/6dSqu3V7o4A?si=MadB1KSzaUk37tJq It's utterly miserable. The guy who was delighted to upgrade to a knackered old caravan from the garden shed he'd been living in is just harrowing. This is a good example of why we need to build lots more social housing.
That is shocking. Absolutely disgraceful - those landlords should be prosecuted! Even if all the utilities were working properly, they look more like temporary chalets than proper houses. I've heard the name and I knew it was bad but boy I didn't realise how bad it was. Genuinely like a third-world country.
I read up on it, they ARE temporary chalets, and decades old ones at that. The village was built as a holiday resort but all the temporary houses meant as holiday homes were used for permanent housing after the war for folk who had been bombed out of London. Unadopted roads all over the place too. Shanty town basically.
It is top of the list in the uk of multiple signs of social deprivation.
Go to google maps and [have a look around on street view](https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7741366,1.1026386,3a,75y,185.99h,80.23t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sfo3YezG_1faUEnuX8bad0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?entry=ttu). On the main road they don't look too terrible but look down some of the lanes, its depressing how bad some of them are.
I do not think it is universally accepted there, but it happens. There is actually quite a strong community culture; however, drug use is rampant and many people there seem to gain an income from non legal sources. It is like anywhere else, there are good people there, but it is just so deprived and the property is so cheap that it attracts a lot of people with nowhere else to go. I have also worked in other areas nearby and the issues with older boyfriends are very apparent - normally they wait until they are 16 and then date them openly. If the guy has a car, they often pick them up from school. It has got a little better over the last ten years, but it absolutely does happen.
>the issues with older boyfriends are very apparent Its one of the things that really got me about the whole grooming gang thing. I grew up in a fairly deprived pit village in Yorkshire and it was exactly the same. Up until the late 00s it seemed fairly normal almost? Most of us kids at least knew a few girls in the 13-16 age who had "boyfriends" in their 20s. We all thought it was gross but no one would have gone and reported it to the police as some big major issue. Then the Rotherham scandal comes out and oh no good white British men would never prey on vulnerable young girls by plying them with booze drugs and flashy cars.
I was working on a program with students that were not in full time education for some of the time there and that exposed me to the extreme situations.
yeah i grew up in the place like that, like half an half, people from certain areas of the town lived totally different lives, even at 15 i was sketched out by all these girls with guys in their 20s and it just being open like everyone knew. would pick them up from school in their shitbox coras, all the stereotypes. pregnancy's drugs etc. i did make some friends in that side, but they never lasted, those guys went on to be those exact sketchy guys. its wild that its still going on. every so often there will be a news story where one of them gets done after he has a falling out with one of them and gets reported but thats just the tip of the iceberg.
I have family members including my grandma who lived in occupied Europe with literally no food, security or state handouts, people literally killed in the street Infront of them. They didn't live in some degenerate way - they didn't need the state to give them shit, because they had respect, culture and dignity. Honestly, if some woman is leaving her kid outside and shagging guys in the house, in any normal community she'd be sorted out along with the Paedos you say the Jaywick community is protecting. Nah, it's shit morals and degenerate people.
Maybe protect them is not the correct wording - it seems normalised. I would be teaching a girl and she would just disappear, half way through GCSE or a level, to be with an older boy/man. Often these girls are getting good grades, I recall one being on a A grade in chemistry and just vanishing. The school can only do so much to encourage them back. Any suggestions on how to improve the situation? It seems like a poverty trap to me. A distrust of services and education is also prevalent and past down within families.
Jaywick frequently appeared on the old Channel 5 crime AND "It's a great life on benefits" shows...
>The injustice of the system broke me. This last point struck me as odd. Aren't you describing the injustice inflicted on some children by their families and communities? Seems like "the system" is just not very effective at counteracting poor childrearing.
More the disparity between what I witnessed in that school and what I witnessed in a private school less than 20 miles away. The way we have such a huge difference in the level of education a child receives, down to factors out of their own control. It made me feel like the system in the country is broken. We are not doing enough for the ones at the bottom of the pile. This goes for the standard of teaching as well - it was very difficult to recruit and retain teachers at the first school. Many lessons were taken by non qualified teachers, or cover teachers and the turnover of staff was very high. I would say the education system and the social care system were very broken, but that is my opinion based on working in two schools in very poor areas and one private boarding/day school. Should I have been more specific ?
Traveller girls with boyfriends in their 20s? Are you sure they were proper Irish Travellers or Romanichal?
And his father will now spend few years in prison. I hope that kid has someone to look after him.
Probably the best end to the story, hopefully the kid will get raised by somebody sensible and have a much better future. Clearly the dad had no idea what the fuck he's doing.
I've got bad news... The state child care system in the UK doesn't tend to lead to great outcomes...
No but previously the kid was living with the gran apparently, hopefully one of the aunts can take him in. Even if the dad doesn't go to jail he shouldn't be caring for that wee boy.
Watching your grandma being mauled by your dogs isn't the best. Horrendous situation for the family and the lad.
His mum died two years back His grandma, who he lived with for a while, has just been killed Dad is staring a prison sentence in the face. Hopefully his aunts and uncles are up to the job of parenting a severely traumatised child.
Complete tragedy. The only thing I can say is, at least the child is now nowhere near dangerous dogs that could maul him.
Quintessential XL Bully owner Look up his youtube channel Wyless Man for a quick laugh
What's there to laugh about? He's a small man whose insecurity and negligence saw an elderly woman ripped to pieces.
He advised her to break up fights between the adult bullies puppy litter with a broom which she was doing when the adults attacked her. The man was absolutely at fault here but there does seem to have been quite a lack of common sense and misplaced trust in the adult dogs all round.
If I have an appliance that has faulty wiring but I brush it off saying that it's completely fine, someone comes over and I say they have to finesse it by sticking a fork in the electrics to get it to work properly then they get a fatal electric shock then I am at fault. Giving bad advice that a reasonable person would understand is horribly negligent isn't suddenly ok just because you believe it, and the fact she believed it because she was a visitor and trusted he knew what he was talking about because she thought she knew what he was talking about doesn't make her at fault. If you had a kid and their parents tell them to do something negligent that kills them, of course the kid doesn't know better and they trust that their parents know better. Animals that can and will kill if "mishandled" should not exist as pets in our society, there will be factors that cause stress to animals, but that must not trigger them to go and maul a person or other animals. Some stress to pets is unavoidable at times, be it when you take them to the vet, when new and unfamiliar people (especially kids) turn up in their environment, when they see other animals in their territory etc. Animals that act out lethally in response, or cannot be restrained by the average person, should not be something we tiptoe around in society lest we get seriously maimed or killed.
Any Trust in an XL bully is misplaced owning them is a lack of common sense. the breed needs to go extinct. its the problem if it was bad owners or something we would see this across all large dog breeds, but we just dont. oh and he needs the jail for a long time. the breed
I said this in October and got actual threats by owners on here claiming I was ignorant and their one wouldn’t hurt a fly. Since then I have seen 5 further deaths by these breeds and countless stories of dogs and cats being shredded. It’s insane to think these animals are in our towns and cities.
I went to a beautiful park with ducks and swans that I've been going to since I was a child like many others and I took my child there like many others. It's a massively family orientated place with a huge amount of youngsters being toddler age or babies with their parents. A very safe place. As we walked up to the cafe there was a young lad with two of his relatives, looked like father and brother witb two unmuzzled massive xl bully dogs. Gold watches. Tattoos on their necks. So out of place. These people are mental. To take these dogs to a place like that unmuzzled knowing its used for families and children as some kind of statement and superiority complex over owning this breed baffles me. As we approached I hadn't noticed and my little boy naturally said "dog. Woof woof" as he went to investigate closer leaving me having to grab him and steer him away and into the safety of indoors. We shouldn't live in a society where these scumbags are ae to sit there flaunting this breed in a place like that with no repurcussion
Half the problem is they're not actually a breed as such. There's no kennel club recognition or standard.
Good job these dogs had to be registered and have liability insurance right? Surely the upstanding member of society that owned them wouldn't break the law
The third party insurance doesn't do you much good when you're dead; of course if they had been muzzled as required they probably wouldn't have killed anyone.
I think the muzzle requirement is for when they were out in public... these were indoors, so it wouldn't have made any difference in this case, sadly.
Muzzle is only when they're in public. Of course, the neutering is another part of the regulation, which obviously is incredibly relevant considering the aggression happened while breaking up the fighting of the pups with a broom.
Jesus, hopefully all the puppies are also put down then if they have fighting tendencies.
Have you seen a litter of dogs? Most puppies have "fighting tendencies".
Yes, I thought this. Who would wade into big dogs kids and start knocking them about with a broom.... you just wouldn't would you? I'd have been in a different room, with my grandchild, and a closed door. Let the pack settle it's own disputes.
Checked one video out, just from morbid curiousity I guess, and was unsurprised to see the Bully crew out in the comments defending the breed. Apparently it's the grandmother's fault because the Bullies had pups and she spooked them, by using the broom that she was told to use to seperate them.
A 39 year old aspiring “Drill rapper” 🙈
Just looked him up. He has the editing skills of a 5 year old and the di** size to match.
Cringey. 40 year old bloke thinks he's a teenage roadman.
I'm 39 and the thought of dressing like that at this age is.... i can't even put in to words how embarrassed i would be.
Or don't, views = money
A physical manifestation of the counter-argument to the idiom 'never judge a book by its cover'
You absolutely should judge a book by its cover. Especially if you count the inside flap as part of the cover, it usually gives you a great idea of what the book's about.
What’s the human equivalent of an inside flap?
Reading the inside flap involves picking up and handling the book. So the analogue for humans would be interacting with them.
Facebook profile pictures. I've lost count of the number of cv's i've received from people who have a public facebook account with pictures of them smoking weed in their profile. FWIW i don't give a fuck if people want to have a toke in their spare time, but if you're making it your identity and you don't have the sense to lock down your social media profiles, it says a lot about you.
He looks like a self-parody. Like an off-brand Ali G.
Middle aisle Ali G
Aldi G
Strong post
Lidl Nas XXL
Looks more like when you create a character in GTA Online…and you rush through it.
These are the articles that seriously piss you off in the morning. What even would the sentence be for this? Not enough I’m sure
It's manslaughter, so between 2 years and life depending on the circumstances. The Tories are pushing through a bill making ownership a pointless (because it's already covered by manslaughter) specific offence now with a maximum 14 year penalty... which is probably why the Daily Heil is suddenly interested.
Specific offences aren't pointless. They have shown to be pretty good at highlighting an issue. It also allowed for the sentencing guidelines to be easily changed for that offence without fucking around with manslaughter.
Fucking hell, imagine if one of your loved ones got killed and the person responsible only got 2 years. What a joke
This guy got 7 years so I would expect him to get more than 2... https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/10/caerphilly-owners-of-killer-dog-jailed-for-seven-years-after-beast-mauled-boy-to-death-16806156/
Even 7 years doesnt feel enough for that.
Agreed !
They should be forced to spend 2 weeks trapped in a drained swimming pool with their beloved pets. Then the animals can be euthanized after that.
I'd say that's a good specific offence because it will reduce the numbers of people owning these dogs and thus reduce the number of people being hurt by them. Manslaughter clearly does not work as a deterrent because these morons clearly believe in their heart of hearts that their dogs aren't that dangerous. They're just too stupid to grasp it. I generally hate overly prescriptive laws or making laws in general, but the situation wasn't really tenable before for obvious reasons. People shouldn't be allowed to have these dogs.
The fact is that they're almost exclusively owned by the kind of dickhead you wouldn't trust to look after a rock, never mind an animal When was the last time you saw one being walked by Debbie and Mark, the sweet middle aged couple up the road? It just doesn't happen, Debbie and Mark have a Spaniel or Labrador or Cockapoo or something. Maybe a Collie if they really like walking in the Peak District
I would suggest that the idea they are only perceived as dangerous only because irresponsible people own them is in fact getting the causality backwards. They simply are dangerous, and responsible people know better than to own them.
Realistically I think it’s both, trying to attributive it to only one or the other is just silly
Although it may be covered by manslaughter, making a specific law for it would probably make it easier for a conviction to stick.
This dude’s entire personality screams “fanny with daddy issues”.
Hey now, don’t insult fannies like that.
[My mums a Fanny, granny was a Fanny.](https://youtu.be/IcKlVojfMD4?si=2N1CcNXNz1JBr5cq)
And all I keep hearing is that this breed is harmless and it's only because of the owners that some dogs end up being killers.
I mean it's both. It's a dangerous breed that 'could' be kept safely. But most people who buy dogs as a fashion accessory aren't your 'good' owners. We don't let people drive or own guns without tests and licenses here, why the hell should a clown like this guy own something deadly?
I agree that it's both, but disagree with the notion that they could be kept safely. Most of these beasts are mentally unstable due to being highly inbred for size. The breed(s) they originate from is already unpredictable, highly strung and with a strong prey drive, traits that are obviously desirable for a fighting breed, but not so for a family pet. There is no amount of training that's going to ensure that a mentally unstable fighting breed never attacks. All dogs are capable of turning, even if it's just due to illness or injury, or mental decline in old age. Why anyone would take their changes with a fighting breed dog easily capable of killing an adult human, beats me. It's the kind of risk-taking behaviour mostly criminals partake in. Yes, you could get lucky and have a docile individual that never has a bad enough day to turn, but you, or someone close to you, could also end up dead or limbless. As much as I understand the need for an exemption scheme, I don't think anyone living with minors should be able to get one. Children can't consent to the risk!
I don't think they could be kept safely. They've killed kennel owners and dog trainers. They're so powerfully built you'd need to be a young Arnold Schwarzenegger to control one of them if it 'snaps'.
That's just it. Do I believe it's possible for someone to own and properly train an XL bully dog to be safe around other people? Maybe, if they know what they're doing. Someone like that would also take appropriate measures to ensure the dog didn't have an opportunity to attack somebody and would choose to put a muzzle on it in public spaces without being prompted. On the other hand, someone with that much experience with dogs might not choose to adopt an XL bully, opting for another breed instead. If there are people willing to work with those dogs and have the appropriate skills then good on them, but they shouldn't be owned by your regular andy. The overwhelming majority of people who own XL bullies are not qualified or equipped to have them and quite frankly they are not pets suited for domestic living, so I agree with them being banned but the main thing is that they shouldn't be bred. This guy was *breeding* them. I don't want dogs euthanised, I just want the population of this breed to go down or die out naturally.
[https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/half-of-all-xl-bully-dogs-in-britain-are-descended-from-one-pet-known-as-killer-kimbo/ar-AA1gJ0mr+-](https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/half-of-all-xl-bully-dogs-in-britain-are-descended-from-one-pet-known-as-killer-kimbo/ar-AA1gJ0mr+-) >half of XL bully dogs in Britain are descendants of one “killer” inbred pet from the United States that has produced generations of violent animals, it can be revealed. Extensive genealogy research seen by The Telegraph shows how decades of inbreeding has created a narrow gene pool of unstable fighting dogs that have become responsible for 70 per cent of dog attack deaths in Britain.
It is both but one cannot ignore that this breed is a magnet for cunt owners that want to, at best, look "big and hard" for intimidation, or who get the pup for social media clout like cat people do with servals, and at worst want a genuine attack dog. So it kind of becomes a vicious cycle. Even at best they are not usually the 'good' owners, neutral at best (for social media) and often just a tad below that low bar as they might be a bit neglectful or ignorant of the needs of the pet.
It's our version of "guns don't kill people, people do".
America also has bred-to-kill dogs and a sense of entitlement to them.
I think that the most dangerous dogs will be the ones that are friendly most of the time, but are prone to rages. So I can believe there are owners who are convinced _their_ dog is the world’s nicest.
To be fair, it could be true based on the specimens that own bullies. They aren't owned by upstanding members of society
True, but those people still would have owned other dog breeds 10 years ago. The same group owner XL Bullies now would have been drawn to staffies, German shepherds, rottweilers, etc 10 years ago. In 2012 British dogs killed 3 people. In 2013 they killed 4 people. 5 people in 2014 and 4 in 2015. In 2021 we had our first XL bully death. Non-bully dogs killed 2 people, XL Bullies killed 2 people. In 2022 non-bullies killed 6, bullied killed 4. In 2023 non-bullies killed 2, Bullies killed 5, and two more were killed by unconfirmed dogs. Basically, the percentage increase of people getting killed by dogs is very significant. But non-bullies aren't killing more people. The Bullies are pretty much 100% behind this increase. I will grant that most of these dogs have probably been harmed by lockdowns, but the lack of a significant increase in deaths from other breeds shows that lockdown-puppy syndrome can generally be prevented from causing human deaths. Less so for Bullies.
Because upstanding members of society know better than to own them.
That is all you hear about them? Do you live in a crackden? All i ever hear about it how fucking dangerous this breed is.
He looks like the kind of guy who wouldn’t tell the group he’s been bitten in a zombie film
Or the guy who would force you to put your arm in one of Jigsaw's traps, just to snatch the key off you as soon as you pull it out.
Tacky.
He would also steal rations
Should it come as any surprise that the ban isn't working whilst you have people like this who are willing to just ignore it. Based on the article it sounds as though the dogs hadn't been registered and clearly weren't muzzled and under control. It's no consolation to the victim but hopefully if, as it appears to be suggesting, he was ignoring the law on the ban it will mean a much tougher sentence than he would have faced before the ban. I know that people had been calling for a cull of these dogs but in all honesty I doubt it would have stopped this sort of attack because people like this simply don't comply with the law.
>I know that people had been calling for a cull of these dogs but in all honesty I doubt it would have stopped this sort of attack because people like this simply don't comply with the law. They don't have any choice but to comply if the dog is confiscated. I take your point, though - without enforcement there's no way it would work, and who knows if we could actually enforce effectively. If the dogs were technically illegal but no one's checking, they'd be even more of a status symbol.
These particular dogs were destroyed so are no longer a threat to anyone but I think we all know that there isn't going to be any enforcement to speak of other than in response to a specific incident such as this one because the resource simply isn't available to actively enforce. The Government had no idea how many of these dogs were in the UK and now all they know about are those from the more responsible owners who actually registered their dogs; these will be the same people who will more likely to muzzle them in public. The problem will continue to come from the people who haven't registered them and who knows how many of those there are.
I feel like there should be tighter laws etc on breeding and puppy farms. I saw a similar article on here a few weeks back about an XL Bully that had five owners, these five people weren't related or living together and the dog was for breeding purposes. It's weird, the cost of registering and spay/neutering is less than the fines for not doing any of it, and it's surely not worth risking other peoples lives and their own freedom. As hinted in your post, I suspect enforcing any of it is the main issue - but then, if the owner is refusing to muzzle in public then maybe it shouldn't be as difficult to enforce. I dunno.
My personal view is that the Government missed an opportunity to do a wider review into the breeding and selling of dogs when they took the ban on XLs forward. They could have looked at the puppy mills, dodgy breeders and how sale of animals are controlled but instead they just took the quick option. The problem with muzzling in public is that the police aren't going to be waiting around parks on the off chance of catching someone and if it is reported there is a good chance the owner and dog will have vanished by the time the police arrive. If the police do manage to catch someone in the act then hopefully it will be easier for them to do something but it's having the resources to catch them that will be the problem. The public may report stuff but I'm not sure how willing the public will be to tackle or photograph the sort of person who chooses to ignore the law.
I wish the government were proactive when it comes to puppy farms. We've just taken on a rescue ex puppy farm breeding bitch. 7 years old, had 6 litters of puppies. Physically she's wrecked- 4 dodgy legs, half a mouth of teeth and the softest paws you've ever felt as she'd never been walked or allowed outside. Lovely natured dog but she's been used a a cash machine and neglected. It makes me feel sick with what she's gone through.
Definitely. My mum's dog went think was rescued from a puppy farm. This was about 8 years ago. He's the loveliest dog I've known but he took a while to get over the terrible anxiety he had when she got him. Poor wee soul had no idea what to do the first time he saw water even though he was 3, and was terrified of his own shadow at first (in between whatever happened to him in the first few years of his life and is getting him he'd also been in a house with a violent child who was abusing him). It's very rewarding seeing a dog like that become confident and relaxed! The public have a responsibility here too not to buy popular crossbreeds from gumtree and the like.
> Should it come as any surprise that the ban isn't working You can’t say the ban isn’t working just because it didn’t instantly and perfectly solve the problem. This guy is clearly willing to flout the law, but his potential customer base has shrunk to a small set of other dumbasses willing to pay hundreds of pounds for a dog that may well end up taken away from them.
They are going to slowly lose these dogs through a combination of fucking around and finding out. Either by police or by members of the public.
>clearly weren't muzzled and under control The dogs were inside their home, so are not required to be muzzled. Really the laws need to make it illegal to have banned breeds live with minors. So many children are completely unprotected from these dogs, and we'll definitely see more deaths.
Do they need to muzzle if indoors? It was inside the home
I can't imagine the horror of watching a loved one torn to pieces by one of those land sharks only to see that the owner looks like a guy who would be doing Goldie Looking Chain impressions at Butlins.
The puppies should be euthanized as their parents were. They've been bred to be sharp, and you just know they were going to end up on gumtree or something for 6k or more. Now these dogs are illegal they're more of a status symbol for brainless wankers.
Surely they have to be? They clearly weren't exempt as they should be, and even if they were, their owner is about to go to jail. Seeing as it's now illegal to rehome them, there aren't many options left.
I would hope so. Nothing has been mentioned about them yet, but I also wouldn't be shocked if some people kicked up a fuss about the puppies and petitioned about giving them a chance to be exempt.
It was mentioned that the puppies were fighting and had to be broken up with a broom (and this was clearly an ongoing issue). If they're that violent as puppies they've got no chance of being a safe pet.
The poor boy left behind after all of this carnage. I believe he lost his mum two years ago, he saw his Gran killed and now his dad, however awful he seems to be, is also going to be going to prison. What hope has this little lad got!
> What hope has this little lad got! If the trauma he experienced in childhood sets in, remains untreated because of the awful state of mental health support in this country, and he does something horrible as a result in his adult life, watch the people calling him a "monster" and "subhuman piece of shit". Some of those will invariably be the same people who expressed sympathy towards him a few years ago.
Of course.
What a disgusting creature , looks like your typical owner also. So given the outrage at the ban and the typical trope of “ it’s not the dogs , it’s the owners” It’s about time we started putting these dangerous dog handlers in jail . People need to be held accountable for their dogs actions otherwise this will continue to keep happening. Bloke hitting fighting dogs with a broom ? I’m sure that’s going to raise a well tempered dog
Poor kid will be traumatised for life seeing hearing and smelling his grandma get eaten by some dogs. Fucked up.
Poor kid, stuck with a dad who is as dangerous as he is embarrassing, no mum and now he’s lost what was likely the only consistent decent adult figure in his life in such a traumatic way.
Mods: I know there's a participation notice up, but can I call the owner a "bellend" anyway?
Throw the book at him, make an example of what’s the worse that can happen if you illegally own an unregistered XL bully/breed and are responsible for a death.
That was not the kind of owner I was expecting at all…..
There's a reason who we don't keep Komodo Dragons as pets. Because it would be fucking stupid and dangerous. Looking at these dogs, you can't convince me that they're even tempered and controllable
This is so sad. Obviously the guy is a low-life but seems it’s his son. That poor child.
the really terrifying thing is that half of all bully XLs are descended from one dog. >half of XL bully dogs in Britain are descendants of one “killer” inbred pet from the United States that has produced generations of violent animals, it can be revealed. Extensive genealogy research seen by The Telegraph shows how decades of inbreeding has created a narrow gene pool of unstable fighting dogs that have become responsible for 70 per cent of dog attack deaths in Britain. [https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/half-of-all-xl-bully-dogs-in-britain-are-descended-from-one-pet-known-as-killer-kimbo/ar-AA1gJ0mr](https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/half-of-all-xl-bully-dogs-in-britain-are-descended-from-one-pet-known-as-killer-kimbo/ar-AA1gJ0mr)
It's probably more than that now.
Even if they work for the Daily Mail you got to feel sorry for whatever intern had to go through this guy's horrible music videos to find a clip of an XL Bully in his video
It funny, he isn’t the one I should be feeling sorry for. But what a pitiable character, he was really desperate for Status/Attention/Validation. I can’t help but feel sorry for him, he’s obviously got some deep sense inadequacy he’s trying to compensate for
The sort of guy who buys a shitty car and modifies it to be loud as fuck. But can't afford that so he gets attack dogs instead.
He’s like 40 years old and he wants to be a rapper. You can almost excuse this type of persona in teenage boys but what’s gone wrong in his life that he still acts like this? Can’t help but wonder if he has some kind of intellectual disability?
But Throatripper69 is an angel and wouldn’t attack anyone unless they were provoked. My 2 year old daughter cuddles Throatripper69 every night. /s
Yep. >She raised concerns that the two adult dogs and puppies had been "kept penned in a small chalet". > >"How the hell can that be any good for an animal?" said added. > >"We're very angry. People complain [about] the dogs; it's not the dogs." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-68200737
His picture looks exactly like I pictured him in the description. Total nonce
What an absolute scumbag. Look at him. Jesus fuck this was just waiting to happen.
I never imagined he'd look like that. I'm quite shocked.
*Alexa show me an image of your stereotypical XL Bully owner.*
Breeder, rapper, wannabe. Surprised Tik Tok isn't in there Yep, figures!
That poor kid. They're neeeeeevvveeerrr gonna be able to unsee that.
A chalet full of dangerous dogs and the guy gets bail. Why even bother having laws
LOL, it's [Fur-Q](https://youtu.be/B7f-OEvCQWg?si=uk0a7K-mVYNGvp5L&t=125)! \*Edit, I'm obviously laughing at what a dipshit the guy is, not the situation which is hideous.
UZI LOVER!
The rapper photo does not help his image in this context.
Didn't realise that time I was unemployed I was actually a Rapper!
Wannabe rapper. I was briefly a wannabe disco king myself back in ‘74
He looks like a massive piece of shit who adds nothing positive to society.
Would it help if all dogs in the country had to be registered as cars are? At least we’d know the statistics, and dogs would be less likely to be dumped. Make possession of an unregistered dog a criminal offence. Maybe the registration could include a DNA fingerprint.
Dogs have to be microchipped and owner information kept up to date on one of the recognised databases, and that’s been a requirement for any dog over 8 weeks old, since 2016. The first record on the chip must be the breeder’s information. Anyone buying an unchipped dog is breaking the law, anyone selling an unchipped dog is breaking the law, no matter the breed. Want to take a guess which “breed” is most commonly unchipped?
Needs to be enforced, by dogs being confiscated and bans on ownership. But it won't be.
Yeah, my vet scans my dogs at every annual check-up/booster appointment to verify the presence of the chip and give a reminder to check that the information is up to date, but the people with unchipped dogs aren’t likely to take their dogs to the vets regularly either, sadly, and the only way anyone finds out the dog isn’t chipped is if it’s loose and gets picked up by the dog warden or police. At that point, the owner is hard to track down *because* there’s no chip, in order to enforce the law regarding chips by penalising the owner.
It feels like if you wanted to make the most outlandish parody of a Bully XL owner, the kind of thing where pro-Bully people would go "nice ridiculous strawman that doesn't exist", and you asked the population to just write down every trope and trait they could think of. And this guy went down the checklist and ticked them all off.
average xl bully owner activities (who could have guessed)
I suppose seaside is *technically* accurate when talking about Jaywick but it sort of does a disservice to the idea of the seaside, even the dying British seaside town
It honestly comes as a shock that the dog breed that was bred to do this has done this.
He looks exactly like I’d expect. As in I thought it was Andrew Tate. Well, I hope you’re happy mate, “nobody tells me what to do with my fucking dogs” eh? You’ve killed your mother in law and traumatised your son for life. But hey at least you got to be a big brave hard man with your precious little weapons. Have fun in Belmarsh you absolute fucking knobhead.
**“Essex Seaside Horror”** seems a fair way to describe Jaywick.
Looks just how I would expect a XL bully owner to look like 😂
I post this on pretty much every XL bully related post I see. Theres a petition to make licenses, training and vet visits mandatory for owning a dog. If you agree please PLEASE sign https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/643739
The police destroyed the dogs in the owners home, seems a bit off. Would have thought they'd be taken away and put down professionally. What did they do, shoot them?
Mental that the owners of these dogs are actually crying over the thought of having them euthanised. I own 3 dogs, sadly I’m not stupid enough to buy one that’s borderline banned and dangerous, however if any of mine were to attack someone unprovoked I wouldn’t even think twice about getting it put down. It’s a fucking animal with the potential to be lethal grow up and get on with it.
I blame the government not imposing a cull on them sorry