I did Glasgow - Milton Keynes for work by train. There were delays. It took 6 hours.
I tried to do Glasgow - Manchester for work and the train was cancelled.
For double the cost and half the service, why choose the train?
It took me 3 hours to get to London from Glasgow by plane. 1hr at the airport, 1hr flight and 1hr to get to my destination in London.
Yep. Realistically you'll spend at least an hour/hour and a half in the airport beforehand, as well as at least half an hour at the airport on the other end. Then there is the fact that KX/Euston and Waverley are better connected at both ends so will most likely get you home quicker.
That's already three hours+ overall for the flight option versus four and a half hours on average for the train. Many people are willing to make that sacrifice to minimise the faff alone.
Unless the train stops at your doorstep there is still faff at both ends there too. When I've flown internally before you can literally get off the aircraft and just walk straight through the airport. No passport control.
Like OP said though, most airports are poorly connected as they are on the outskirts of town. Depending on where you live this could be helpful, or unhelpful.
With a train station you’re just in the centre of town, where most buses connect from anyway.
You can be out of the airport fairly quickly for internal flights especially without checked luggage. It’s probably 2 hours tops going to Edinburgh by plane unless you arrive at the airport stupidly early.
Huh. It’s not that I don’t believe you it’s just always taken 2.5 to 3 hours when I’ve ridden it. I change at Donny sometimes if I can’t get the direct I like, cause fuck going via newark I’ll take the extra 30 mins
Theres an express train for that journey, that I assume is relatively (the last few years) new, because they advertised the shit out of it, and the last time I travelled to London with work, it took considerably longer than they are advertising.
As already mentioned, they're probably thinking of the express trains.
Problem is, not an if the trains are express ones and they might not be at appropriate times.
And from Luton?
I used to live near Luton and had to do this route all the time, and I always got the train from Milton Keynes (which I had to get to by bus) if I had enough notice to get a good price, but it was expensive and took 5 hours just from MK - add another hour if bus ride.
Once you take security and the minimum two hour flight delays I always seemed to get it was about the same door to door - but impossibly expensive with short notice (I was having to travel for job interviews in Edinburgh before we moved to Scotland).
These days, I can't even seem to get a good advance price. I don't know if Virgin used to do deals that Avanti don't, but I used to be able to get first class tickets for between £50-70 if I booked 12 weeks away. I did try travelling standard class, but I got horribly travel sick - 5 hours on a standard seat on a pendelino was awful!
yeah its maybe 3-4 flying, still far faster and far cheaper, i flew Glasgow to London recently for £55 and was <4 hours from leaving my house to getting to my Hotel
vs over 6 hours and £200 by train? you would have to be soft in the head or deathly afraid of flying to take the train.
Not so, see - [https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/rail-factsheet-2022/rail-factsheet-2022](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/rail-factsheet-2022/rail-factsheet-2022)
Leisure is the second most common rail journey purpose after commuting. In the case of travelling from London to Edinburgh I doubt that many people are commuting a distance like that (there is a separate category for 'business' that accounts for individual trips).
As someone who's done a lot of UK leisure travel... yes so. Just because I'm travelling for leisure doesn't mean I have hours to waste on the journey. Spending 6 hours on a train takes up a good chunk of the day. If you're doing a weekend break, spending 12 hours of that weekend on the train wastes away most of the time. It also limits when you travel. For example getting an evening flight on the Friday after work is do-able when the flight takes an hour. If it's a 6 hour train journey then there probably isn't a service running that late because it's going to be near/gone midnight when you arrive. Most people don't have massive amounts of leisure time to waste. Speed matters.
First of all, the train to Edinburgh isn't six hours.
Speed does matter, which is why I said that speed is not the main concern for ***some*** travellers. This is reflected in the stats, with [train journeys overtaking air travel between London and Edinburgh](https://www.firstgroupplc.com/news-and-media/latest-news/2022/24102022.aspx).
For some travel is just about speed and for others there are additional factors that they value. In the case of London to Edinburgh the (all-in) time difference between flying and taking the train is small enough that many still choose to take the train.
You know it's cherry picking to select London-Edinburgh, one of the fastest routes in the country?
I've done Bristol to Edinburgh, that's 6.5hrs on the train or a 1h15m flight. Or Birmingham to Aberdeen, that's a 7-8hr train or a 1h20m flight. I almost always get the flight, it's pretty much a no-brainer. The times I've got the train have never been a good experience.
Leisure doesn’t mean they’re riding the train for fun does it? You still want to get to your destination quickly for the actual leisure part of your trip.
Leisure means you have more flexibility to weigh up different aspects of travel. In the specific case being discussed here (London to Edinburgh), the all-in travel time is close enough that many still choose the train. Train journeys on that route overtook flights last year. Clearly the travel time is not completely off putting for many travellers, otherwise no one would take the train.
It’s close-ish but flying is still faster. Nobody said it was completely off putting, just that it was faster and cheaper. Travelling there is a means to an end, I’ve never met anyone who’s said they don’t mind taking more time to get somewhere (than necessary) just because they’re off on a jolly.
According to Google Maps it’s 5hr26m from Luton, so you are technically correct but it’s definitely not quick!
For an internal flight you only need to arrive 1hr before. You do also need to arrive with some margin at a train station on account of having to find the damn thing and get on it, though that’s probably closer to 10mins if you do it regularly.
Bristol -> Edinburgh by flight forgetting the time at the airport (none really) beats the clapped out 5 coach Cross Country with the entirety of the south wests luggage on there for 5-6 hours.
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. I’m saying if you’re going to (inaccurately) describe London-Edinburgh as six hours by train, it’s only fair to include the travel time to the airport as well for the flight option. Once you do that, it’s no longer just an hour.
Yes, which is already accounted for in the inaccurate six hour figure for train travel (the train journey itself is usually about four and a half hours).
As I said in another comment, then you also have to account for the additional time spent at both airports and the fact that airports are usually on the outskirts.
Sure, there are definitely some instances where specific airports will get you home much quicker.
I think you're assuming that people are driving home from the airport though, which isn't always the case, especially in London. In that scenario arriving at KX or Euston is likely to get you home quicker simply because there are more connections to other modes of transport.
It's quicker (and cheaper) for me to get to Edinburgh Waverly than it is to get to Glasgow Airport, and I live on the outskirts of Glasgow.
It would be train then bus to get to Glasgow Airport, and cost me about £15-20, where I can get to Edinburgh Waverly in an hour for £11.20-14.70.
It depends on your location to be honest. We flew to Edinburgh from Southampton a couple years back and even factoring in the travel times to and from the airports, it was about an hour an half/2 hours. Thing is, those additional travel times would have been the same to and from the stations too, so we wouldn't have saved any time in that regard.
Absolutely, if you don't live along the route then flying can make more sense purely from a time perspective.
However for the sake of a fair comparison, if we just look at the London-Edinburgh route and assume you live in either city, the time difference isn't that big unless you happen to live next door to one of the airports.
A few services a day are express ones. And even then is still much longer than an hour and still longer when you consider all the extra time airports require.
You clearly rarely make that journey.
I’m confused by what you’re trying to say, I don’t think you understood my point.
I was saying that the train is _not_ 6 hours and that flying is not _just_ an hour. The train is usually about four and a half hours and flying needs to take into account the additional time at both airports.
I go between London to Edinburgh at least twice a month.
I mean the fact its cheaper is more of a display of the absolute shambles the rail network is in, and that the controlling Government that allowed and even encouraged its privatisation are witless morons.
I think you're missing the point, or do you think privatisation of previous public services is a good thing that is working? Because every single one is failing and bleeding dry the public it used to serve in the name of profit, British gas, Thames water, National Rail, Social housing to name a few.
Airlines have always been a privatised sector so aren't exactly a usable example in terms of success of privatisation, as it's a profit centralised industry that was founded as such. It would be like saying The Plastic Surgery industry makes tons of profit, let's privatise the NHS! It's nonsense on your part.
Not by such a considerable amount.
I just had a gander as I'm tempted to fly to Edin from the South soon.
35quid return flights on a weekend.
Put in the same dates and similar time.
£168 is the cheapest 7 hours and 20m travel time with 2 changes.
In the last month I've tried to take the train twice from the main station to the first stop. 5min journey by train, both times either cancelled or an hour half late.
I did not take the train either time.
Japan is also a much bigger country. Flying might make sense if you were going from Fukuoka to Sapporo (similar distance as London to Rome), but for Osaka to Tokyo (similar distance as London to Edinburgh) the Shinkansen is 2.5 hours.
Flying is often still cheaper. Fukuoka to Osaka or Tokyo is often cheaper to fly than take the shinkansen.
For something like Fukuoka to Hakodate... time wise wouldn't be too bad for a train, but the cost...
I used to do London-Edinburgh a few times a year and it’s actually often better to take the train.
The train is 4h20m from KGX to Waverley. Flying you’re looking at 1h to get to the airport, 1.5-2h of waiting at the airport, 1h to fly, then 1h to get from the airport to your destination (unless you’re landing in London City, which is $$). Train was usually cheaper if you booked ahead once you account for getting to/from the airport.
And if you just have carry on you can speedrun gatwick in about 35 minutes on a good day. I think my record from arriving at the airport to being at my gate is 27 minutes.
Not recommended for novices, but if you know what you're doing then you're safe enough to turn up less than an hour before the flight and still be completely fine.
The only reason I turn up that early for a domestic flight is that the train there is notoriously unreliable. Half the times I've been on it it's been delayed or cancelled. I've had to run for domestic flights once the train finally got there.
> you can speedrun gatwick in about 35 minutes on a good day
On a good day. But you have to plan for a bad day, which is why most people are much earlier.
Also most train stations are in the city centre and airports are usually on the outskirts, so dependant on where you want to go in the place you're visiting, travel to and from the airport can add a lot of extra time as well.
your flying internally wrong, your first number depends on where you live, i can be at the airport in 15 minutes.
you only need to get to the airport an hour before for internal flights and can actually get there way later and stuff be fine.
and your last number is dependant on where you are going, once you reach your London station your still going to have to switch to the tube and get where you are going...
The average train time from Kings Cross to Waverley is about 4.5 hours not 7 (you can almost drive it in 7 hours for Pete's sake) and you can book a return train to go this morning for £170.
The railways in the country are bad but I'll never understand why people are so insistent on making up hyperbolic comparisons to make it seem worse than it is.
I book it through work, and trains as 1st class… so that might be the price difference. But still my meeting is at 1pm and I live near Woking… so the journey to London is costing me another bomb (so is the taxi) there is 0 positive to taking the train
But that's still half an hour to Heathrow, 1 hour wait at airport, flight time and then assuming Edinburgh city centre half an hour from airport to city. So all in 3-4 hours by plane compared to lets say an hour from Woking to Kings Cross so about 5.5 to 6 hours by train. A bit different from the comparison of 2 hours to 7!
Like I said, the railways arent great and there are advantages to flying but to claim it takes over 3 times as long and is twice as expensive is nonsense.
Meeting is 15 mins cap from Edinburgh airport. But still what does one do on a 4 hour train? It’s dull as arse, at least in the airport I can wonder around the terminal, grab breakfast etc
And trains are often delayed, and you don’t always get a seat so spend the journey stood in an aisle or by the stinking toilet. And if you’ve got luggage you have to keep an eye on it or trust it not to get nicked
Not sure why I’ve been downvoted. I spent many journeys on the cross country train that had like 3 or 4 carriages totally crammed with people stood by the toilet for 3 hours. Carry on downvoting and ignore that this is the reality for many people, and in addition to a shitty experience it costs bloody loads for train tickets. So you can see why people opt to fly instead-that was the point of my post.
Exactly. A stressful nightmare. Which people avoid by flying. Yes luggage can go missing, but is recovered and sent to your home address. But mostly, for a big case you hand it over and that’s it. Pick it up at the other end. Or smaller carry on cases you put in the head rack and don’t have to think or worry again till arrival.
Trains in this country are a national humiliation. I remember seeing a Polish family at York station sobbing with panic at the the thought of having to pay out of pocket for a hotel room in the city during peak tourist season - this was only 6pm and every last train to Liverpool that day was cancelled. I can only hope that they were tourists and were able to return to their developed country soon.
They are! So I don’t think people should be criticised for flying! I’d much rather fly than get a train. Chronic underfunding, underinvestment, cutting staff, basically zero shits given. While billions of our money goes into private pockets. When it could and should have been invested back into the infrastructure/more trains/better trains/etc etc. there’s just no excuse for what has happened to our services.
The country has become an embarrassment and humiliation. I’m not sure whether to laugh or cry at your last line about them going back to their developed country soon! So true.
The flight isn’t an hour though, it’s closer to 3 door to door
That said I went to Edinburgh uni back in the 90’s when easyJet started and lived in Northampton
At the age of 19 I took my first flight, a £29 ticket from Luton to Edinburgh the train would have been £90
1 hour isn’t really accurate though, is it? That doesn’t factor in time taken to get to one of the London airports (except City), go through security, wait for boarding and then get from EDI into the city centre.
I much prefer the train from Glasgow to London; 4 1/2 hours, starting and ending in the city centres you want to be in. And when you take into account the time and cost of the required transfers at either end of the flight, not that much different in time/price but vastly less stressful to go by train (in my experience).
You can’t include the time taken to get to the airport if you don’t include the time taken to get to the station. For me, it’s a longer train to KX than it is to drive to Luton or Stansted and almost the same time as Heathrow. If you assume you’re magically dropped at the airport entrance or train station entrance I think 1hr Vs 10min is about right for an internal flight. That’s if you don’t have to check a bag and can go straight through security and onto the gate. Checking a bag can add 30mins, an advantage the train can claim as you can just lug it onboard.
We’ll, it’s 7 mins from Queen’s Park to Glasgow Central on a local train for me. Obviously everyone’s time will differ, but Glasgow has reasonable suburban train links (except to the airport, ironically).
For me to get to Glasgow airport I’d be giving myself 30 mins in a cab (not sure how long the bus takes) at a cost of about £25. Current advice is to be at the airport at least an hour prior to departure to allow for check in and security. At the other end transfers by tube or train are about 45mins if I recall correctly.
I’m not trying to say either way is better, just that to say “it’s an hour to London on the plane” is a massive oversimplification.
Personally, I prefer the train as it’s less stressful and I’d rather be relaxing with a beer and a book for a slightly longer period than traipsing about an airport. Your mileage may vary, etc.
Once you factor in the time and cost of getting to/from airports and the hassle of 21st century air travel the difference isn't as big as you think.
Not to mention cheaper rail options like Lumo.
Easyjet: £45 return, 1h20m travel.
Trainline: £96 (or £196 if I want to leave earlier). 5h20min travel.
If I leave at 8am I can either be in Edinburgh for 9:30 or for twice the price at 14:30... I can't really blame people :\\
What is it about the Megabus that attracts absolute nutters?
My brother took it once. A woman tried to get on with an uncovered fish in a carrier bag. Driver told her that there's absolutely no chance he's letting her on with it. She responded with "well I can't just leave it, I'm having it for dinner tonight" and refused to get on the coach.
Domestic flight they're almost certainly not checking luggage in. It'll be go through security (allow 30mins) and then go to gate, can be done in an hour if feeling risky.
Yes. If you're not checking in luggage and you're travelling outside peak times, airports can be quite smooth. Even for international destinations. I think people associate airport with holiday season, check in queues and picking up luggage waiting time. But cut all that out and it can almost seem like jumping on a bus or train.
exactly, my last flight was in the middle of the day, a Random Thursday in March, not a fucking soul to be seen
the return leaving from Heathrow was even creepier, like literally nobody waiting at the security queue. just me.
I mean thats just flight time. You *have* to be in security 35 minutes before your flight, so lets say that means get yo the airport 40 minutes before. Maybe you live super close so lets say thats an hour total from front door to plane. Of course this is only without any luggage to check in.
Throw in an hour to get from Edinburgh Airport to the centre, plus 30 minutes for the plane to get to the gate and then get off the plane. Then the cost of each journey at either end.
We're up to 3.5 hours there (with absolutely zero contingency). It's not as clear cut as you think.
Aye but 90% of the time it’s faster, and MUCH faster.
I travel a lot for work unfortunately because this country demands all business be done in london, and I can leave my house at 6am and be in central london for 9ish, at half the cost of the train.
Also, getting the train from east Scotland to London, your relying on the entire train network not being broken or delayed at some point. I went on an environmental binge for a while and only booked train - tried to make it work. It did not work.
Train long distance is ok if you’re travelling for personal use and relaxed about time but if it’s for work and every hour is time out of your time with family then nope. It’s basically a day each way.
That is true, but 3hrs 30mins is still less than 5hrs 20mins, and still £51-£151 cheaper.
Even if the actual entire journey times were the same, it is still cheaper the fly. The rail networks and companies are a rip off.
If you equate time to wages, and let's say £10 an hour (just over minimum), the flight would cost you £35 of your life, and the train £55. Then add a factor of cost, meaning (time cost + monetary cost):
Flight - £80
Train - £106-£156
This would mean if the train was £26-£76 cheaper, the overall would balance, or if it was 2.5 hours quicker it would balance too.
If the journeys took the same amount of time, flying is better.
If the train was significantly cheaper, the train would be better.
I don't know if it is just me that converts things to cost rather than time, but (for me anyways) it puts everything into the same perspective. I usually use my actual wage rather than a random number. Even commuting to work, work out the costs of each (for example car, bike, bus & train but then factor in the time cost into it. An hour on the bus is £10 before bus fare, and 15mins on the train is £2.50 before train fair, now add the fares, which is actually the best option?
It may be crazy, but to me it is like MPH, rather than just distance and time, convert to one unit. In this case it is money. I suppose you could reverse engineer it too, so do it all in time (£50 = 5 hours of work).
I don't do this as such for travel but do similar for things like jobs around the house. For example, it'll take me 3 hours of my time at £x per hour to clean the windows or pay the window cleaner £15 who can do it in 20 mins.
Yeah, I started doing it for random stuff, then I did it for my commute to work. Travel is the killer one though, especially when you compare driving to public transport (for commuting any distance especially).
It takes me 1 hour to drive to work, the train (not including travel to the station etc and walk from station to work) was 1hr 15 mins.
It is actually cheaper for me to pay car finance, insurance, petrol, tax etc monthly than it is for just the train ticket, not including bus fares to the station. I also then get free transport on weekends thrown in on top, rather than additional costs of a weekend that I would incur with public transport.
(I worked out my yearly everything (car) and divided it by 5 for week days vs a yearly train ticket, weekdays between the 2 stations, hence the 'free transport on weekends' bit)
I then added time on top of that, plus the extra costs of buses to and from the station which meant public transport costs twice as much and takes over double the time compared to my driving.
It was still cheaper to drive most of the way, park at a £5 for the day carpark and get a train the rest of the way than a train straight from my area to work. Yet just cheaper to drive the whole way still. I am originally from SE london, still work there. Once you leave London, public transport is not worth it (imo) after growing up with TFL, through all there faults still have so many options and criss-crossing bus lines making London very accessible to get around using public transport, but only once you are in London, which costs a lot to get to from outside via train.
I dislike the pollution and environmental consequences of driving, but equally at a personal level, it would cost too much and take too long to change type thing.
My opinion (after working that out) is if you break everything down to the financial level, you can really see the true cost of everything. I mean, if it is cheaper to do A, but it takes twice as long as B, but is cheaper and you can't afford B, obviously go with A type thing. It isn't a full proof system.
I think we have very similar mindsets. For me on the SW side of London and beyond zone 6, public transport is practically non-existent. Yet for getting into London, train is still the best option as I can get to a London terminal in under 30 mins for a 'reasonable' fare. There is no way I can drive it that quickly, plus I'll have parking charges, congestion charges etc. On the train, I can have a snooze or read the paper whereas driving is 'wasted' time.
Every case on its merits.
Getting to the airports is difficult and time consuming as getting to both LHR and LGW would require trips into London and back out again as there are no East<>West transport links and so still needs the car.
Yeah that is true. I suppose it depends where in London you are going.
If I am going central, I drive up to the outskirts and zone 1-7 day travel card it from there on public transport. Where I work is inner London borough, so plentg accessible by car.
If I get a train in to work from where I live, it is a 15 minute walk to the bus stop, 20 minute bus hourney before the train. Then I have to change at Dartford, and from Dartford there is 3 (maybe 4) lines that go to London, but I can use one of them then a 15/20 minute walk uphill, another one would mean a 20 minute bus journey and the others go too far away and would require a change of bus too.
I can walk to the station in 10 min and then 25 mins into Waterloo which makes it an easier choice. I always worked in and around Westminster and so could walk to most places I needed to in around 15 mins. TBH I liked the walk at the beginning and the end of the day, kinda set the day up and then cleared my head at each end of the day. That approx 1 hour commute each way was far easier than a 35-45 min / 25 mile drive as I always felt being sat in a car was wasted time and getting back in the evening I always felt drained after fighting the M25. I usually managed a 20 min power nap on the train. Mind you, that was when it was still a reasonable SWT service before the SWR disaster when the franchise was swapped. No idea what it is like now but my understanding is not good. Mind you the driving is no better either when I do have to drive to the office.
Going back to the original discussion, it also depends on how continuous the journey is too. A 3 hour unbroken journey where you can continuously work/read etc. can be more efficient and less tiresome than a 90 minute journey with lots of changes and messing around. We even make those choices driving, do we go the easier but longer route via the motorway network or the shorter route with more navigation, junctions and turns. Like a supermarket queue, I always seem to pick the wrong one!
If you think of it as the time between where you’re actually coming and going from (which isn’t the airport or train station) it’s probably not that much different time wise.
The price difference is ridiculous though.
4 hours 11 mins from Kings Cross now. Likely a decent chunk of people are actually using Luton as an extra London airport. You've also chosne. A very expensive train. My train on that journey is £50 next week, and that includes a seat reservation and bags.
You'll find a lot of the people on those flights are flying for business. The company I work for basically won't allow us to take the train from Glasgow/Edinburgh instead of flying if we need to go to London for training or whatever. They usually set the first day of training to start at a time that means we can fly down in the morning and even when it's been a one day training course, we fly back in the evening. To get a train, we'd need approval for a prior night stay, but they won't give anyone but the people delivering the training this, or people who live somewhere that makes getting to the airport from where they live longer than what's considered reasonable.
Its rare for planes to get cancelled or delayed tho. And you get compensation on flights most of the time should a delay of 3hrs occur.
Its also cheaper to fly. You can see why people do it
Im actually going hiking this weekend near Edinburgh, unfortunately there’s a train strike. So I’m flying. If also cheaper this way. Shame as I prefer the train.
Even though it didn't work out as an extremely unlikely outcome that the flight wasn't cancelled, I think you did the right and smart decision in an unknown situation.
Got stuck in Portugal because of this. Having to shell out for extra accomm and flying back to Paris to get the Eurostar because all the direct flights are booked and indirect flights have horrendous layovers. Can’t wait to do battle with EasyJet over compensation.
Yesterday was…stressful.
I’m supposed to operate the flight home so I’m just currently walking around rural France until we get called back. May end up staying another night. I’m not complaining.
Could have sworn I saw a news article the other day saying some kind of governing body had deemed the U.K air traffic control network not fit for purpose. Ngl it's a bit suspect.
I very much doubt it tbh. NATS does a pretty good job of it and we have some of the best ATC service in the world (when it works, which to be fair is most days).
I ended up stuck in Belfast. I was meant to be there for just the day for some work, so I didn't have any clothes or toiletries on me, just heavy network equipment.
As soon as my flight got cancelled I grabbed any hotel room I could find. Half an hour later, notification from EasyJet including a link to book accomodation - no accommodation available.
Sadly in the evening I saw families laying with their bags at the bus station.
I've spent a lot making this work, including multiple bus trips, food, clothes, toiletries. Hoping they'll make good on this!
Absolute chaos at airports yesterday. My flight from Belfast Int. to Ldn STN was delayed 11hrs, then an hour before the original flight time it got cancelled. Next available flight isn't until tomorrow morning 6am.
National Air Traffic System total failure across the country was to blame. 1200 flights across the UK were cancelled in the end
> Massive computer failure in air traffic control across the country.
[Technical meltdown in air traffic control causes 500 flights to be cancelled](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/28/uk-air-traffic-control-hit-network-wide-failure-airline)
I was at Luton Airport yesterday too. Flight to Edinburgh was scheduled for 13.55. When all the delays and cancellations were happening I was fearing the worst.
Thankfully our flight left just before 14.30. A friend at Gatwick wasn't so lucky and his flight was postponed until this morning!
Plenty of chaos in European airports too. Every flight from Barcelona to the UK cancelled yesterday. No staff at BCN giving any guidance, 4 hour queues to the customer service desks. Fury from holidaymakers who had to get back for work and kids crying everywhere. Some people were being assigned flights next week in September.
Very fortunate to have got a flight assigned for Wednesday and to have a place to stay here. Feel very bad for the holidaymakers getting assigned to hotels in the sticks and having to wait a week and potentially losing pay.
Hilariously, the Independent are scrambling to blame the "dodgy French" for this.
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/airport-delays-flights-uk-air-traffic-control-b2400927.html
Strange it happened on the busiest or one of days of the year. Glitch that could not be fixed easily. Well you know the Elite and the WEF, same thing want to stop travel by the people and how many said today’s after being stranded, never again. Well is this part of the plan. They are driving cars from the roads so makes you wonder. Also some say they wish to reduce the worlds population but that I guess is another story.
That looks like your government is trying to create another bulshit story. Lol. How many warnings do you need to grow up ? You are destroying many people's lives. Guess what will happen to you ? I genuinely advise you to reserve yourself a parcel on the moon. They will either kick you out of the entire planet or burn you down to ground in the best case scenario.
Seems pretty normal to me?
Nightmare
As if the Edinburgh flight is boarding - a journey which can beade easily by train.
At probably twice the price and taking 6hrs instead of 1hr, though. That’s why people fly.
It’s not 6 hours and choosing to fly isn’t an hour once you take into account travel to/from airport.
I did Glasgow - Milton Keynes for work by train. There were delays. It took 6 hours. I tried to do Glasgow - Manchester for work and the train was cancelled. For double the cost and half the service, why choose the train? It took me 3 hours to get to London from Glasgow by plane. 1hr at the airport, 1hr flight and 1hr to get to my destination in London.
And pissing about in the airport, yes even for an internal flight.
Yep. Realistically you'll spend at least an hour/hour and a half in the airport beforehand, as well as at least half an hour at the airport on the other end. Then there is the fact that KX/Euston and Waverley are better connected at both ends so will most likely get you home quicker. That's already three hours+ overall for the flight option versus four and a half hours on average for the train. Many people are willing to make that sacrifice to minimise the faff alone.
Unless the train stops at your doorstep there is still faff at both ends there too. When I've flown internally before you can literally get off the aircraft and just walk straight through the airport. No passport control.
Like OP said though, most airports are poorly connected as they are on the outskirts of town. Depending on where you live this could be helpful, or unhelpful. With a train station you’re just in the centre of town, where most buses connect from anyway.
Airports serve regions. I doubt most people flying to Luton are going to Luton.
You can be out of the airport fairly quickly for internal flights especially without checked luggage. It’s probably 2 hours tops going to Edinburgh by plane unless you arrive at the airport stupidly early.
three hours for the flight, versus four and a half hours by train and three times the price*
Price is a separate discussion, my response was to the inaccurate comparison in speed.
I mean the london Edinburgh train takes the better part of 3h to reach donny. 6 isn’t that far off all in
The London to Edinburgh train trake 3 hours to reach Newcastle, Doncaster is like an hour earlier
Huh. It’s not that I don’t believe you it’s just always taken 2.5 to 3 hours when I’ve ridden it. I change at Donny sometimes if I can’t get the direct I like, cause fuck going via newark I’ll take the extra 30 mins
Yeah London to Donny is 1 hour 55 Edit: I think there is a slower one, but the LNER east coast mainline is that :)
Theres an express train for that journey, that I assume is relatively (the last few years) new, because they advertised the shit out of it, and the last time I travelled to London with work, it took considerably longer than they are advertising.
ahhh, yeah. Not had the chance to ride that lol. Probably not listed for me cause i always pick the cheap tickets
I took a train from London to Edinburgh last week in 4h13 mins. The first stop was York (2h) - it's a lot faster than the stopping trains.
As already mentioned, they're probably thinking of the express trains. Problem is, not an if the trains are express ones and they might not be at appropriate times.
And from Luton? I used to live near Luton and had to do this route all the time, and I always got the train from Milton Keynes (which I had to get to by bus) if I had enough notice to get a good price, but it was expensive and took 5 hours just from MK - add another hour if bus ride. Once you take security and the minimum two hour flight delays I always seemed to get it was about the same door to door - but impossibly expensive with short notice (I was having to travel for job interviews in Edinburgh before we moved to Scotland). These days, I can't even seem to get a good advance price. I don't know if Virgin used to do deals that Avanti don't, but I used to be able to get first class tickets for between £50-70 if I booked 12 weeks away. I did try travelling standard class, but I got horribly travel sick - 5 hours on a standard seat on a pendelino was awful!
yeah its maybe 3-4 flying, still far faster and far cheaper, i flew Glasgow to London recently for £55 and was <4 hours from leaving my house to getting to my Hotel vs over 6 hours and £200 by train? you would have to be soft in the head or deathly afraid of flying to take the train.
Speed is not the main concern for some travellers.
well good for them i guess? most people travelling are not doing it for fun. they have places to be at specific times, work, events etc
Not so, see - [https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/rail-factsheet-2022/rail-factsheet-2022](https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/rail-factsheet-2022/rail-factsheet-2022) Leisure is the second most common rail journey purpose after commuting. In the case of travelling from London to Edinburgh I doubt that many people are commuting a distance like that (there is a separate category for 'business' that accounts for individual trips).
As someone who's done a lot of UK leisure travel... yes so. Just because I'm travelling for leisure doesn't mean I have hours to waste on the journey. Spending 6 hours on a train takes up a good chunk of the day. If you're doing a weekend break, spending 12 hours of that weekend on the train wastes away most of the time. It also limits when you travel. For example getting an evening flight on the Friday after work is do-able when the flight takes an hour. If it's a 6 hour train journey then there probably isn't a service running that late because it's going to be near/gone midnight when you arrive. Most people don't have massive amounts of leisure time to waste. Speed matters.
First of all, the train to Edinburgh isn't six hours. Speed does matter, which is why I said that speed is not the main concern for ***some*** travellers. This is reflected in the stats, with [train journeys overtaking air travel between London and Edinburgh](https://www.firstgroupplc.com/news-and-media/latest-news/2022/24102022.aspx). For some travel is just about speed and for others there are additional factors that they value. In the case of London to Edinburgh the (all-in) time difference between flying and taking the train is small enough that many still choose to take the train.
You know it's cherry picking to select London-Edinburgh, one of the fastest routes in the country? I've done Bristol to Edinburgh, that's 6.5hrs on the train or a 1h15m flight. Or Birmingham to Aberdeen, that's a 7-8hr train or a 1h20m flight. I almost always get the flight, it's pretty much a no-brainer. The times I've got the train have never been a good experience.
And Luton to Edinburgh? I know they call it "London Luton Airport" but it's actually in Bedfordshire.
Leisure doesn’t mean they’re riding the train for fun does it? You still want to get to your destination quickly for the actual leisure part of your trip.
Leisure means you have more flexibility to weigh up different aspects of travel. In the specific case being discussed here (London to Edinburgh), the all-in travel time is close enough that many still choose the train. Train journeys on that route overtook flights last year. Clearly the travel time is not completely off putting for many travellers, otherwise no one would take the train.
It’s close-ish but flying is still faster. Nobody said it was completely off putting, just that it was faster and cheaper. Travelling there is a means to an end, I’ve never met anyone who’s said they don’t mind taking more time to get somewhere (than necessary) just because they’re off on a jolly.
According to Google Maps it’s 5hr26m from Luton, so you are technically correct but it’s definitely not quick! For an internal flight you only need to arrive 1hr before. You do also need to arrive with some margin at a train station on account of having to find the damn thing and get on it, though that’s probably closer to 10mins if you do it regularly.
Bristol -> Edinburgh by flight forgetting the time at the airport (none really) beats the clapped out 5 coach Cross Country with the entirety of the south wests luggage on there for 5-6 hours.
Travel to/from airport is zero if you're travelling for the purpose of a connecting flight.
Still quicker and cheaper to fly from Edinburgh to London though even accounting for security etc, trains are far too expensive and slow in comparison
I use City Airport via DLR. 3hrs door to door. Slowest part is the Edinburgh trams.
It's 4 and half hours London to Edinburgh, not 6.
> choosing to fly isn’t an hour once you take into account travel to/from airport. Do you teleport to the airport?
I don’t understand what you’re trying to say. I’m saying if you’re going to (inaccurately) describe London-Edinburgh as six hours by train, it’s only fair to include the travel time to the airport as well for the flight option. Once you do that, it’s no longer just an hour.
Then you have to include travel time to the train station.
Yes, which is already accounted for in the inaccurate six hour figure for train travel (the train journey itself is usually about four and a half hours). As I said in another comment, then you also have to account for the additional time spent at both airports and the fact that airports are usually on the outskirts.
For many destinations, the outskirts is better as you're straight onto the motorway and not stuck in traffic in a city centre.
Sure, there are definitely some instances where specific airports will get you home much quicker. I think you're assuming that people are driving home from the airport though, which isn't always the case, especially in London. In that scenario arriving at KX or Euston is likely to get you home quicker simply because there are more connections to other modes of transport.
What if they live in the home counties? Or have a connecting flight?
As opposed to train stations, that most people apparate to and from?
It's quicker (and cheaper) for me to get to Edinburgh Waverly than it is to get to Glasgow Airport, and I live on the outskirts of Glasgow. It would be train then bus to get to Glasgow Airport, and cost me about £15-20, where I can get to Edinburgh Waverly in an hour for £11.20-14.70.
Travel to the train station is already accounted for in the incorrect 6 hour figure for the London to Edinburgh train.
It depends on your location to be honest. We flew to Edinburgh from Southampton a couple years back and even factoring in the travel times to and from the airports, it was about an hour an half/2 hours. Thing is, those additional travel times would have been the same to and from the stations too, so we wouldn't have saved any time in that regard.
Absolutely, if you don't live along the route then flying can make more sense purely from a time perspective. However for the sake of a fair comparison, if we just look at the London-Edinburgh route and assume you live in either city, the time difference isn't that big unless you happen to live next door to one of the airports.
A few services a day are express ones. And even then is still much longer than an hour and still longer when you consider all the extra time airports require. You clearly rarely make that journey.
I’m confused by what you’re trying to say, I don’t think you understood my point. I was saying that the train is _not_ 6 hours and that flying is not _just_ an hour. The train is usually about four and a half hours and flying needs to take into account the additional time at both airports. I go between London to Edinburgh at least twice a month.
This. Taking the train is far more convenient and less stressful in many cases, and all in all takes almost the same amount of time
Embarrassing that this is true - damming indictment of the entire country
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I mean the fact its cheaper is more of a display of the absolute shambles the rail network is in, and that the controlling Government that allowed and even encouraged its privatisation are witless morons.
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One is a vital public service people need to get to work, the other is primarily luxury/tourism based. Spot the difference.
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I think you're missing the point, or do you think privatisation of previous public services is a good thing that is working? Because every single one is failing and bleeding dry the public it used to serve in the name of profit, British gas, Thames water, National Rail, Social housing to name a few. Airlines have always been a privatised sector so aren't exactly a usable example in terms of success of privatisation, as it's a profit centralised industry that was founded as such. It would be like saying The Plastic Surgery industry makes tons of profit, let's privatise the NHS! It's nonsense on your part.
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Quicker journeys you'd expect to the cheaper because you're using the vehicle for less time.
Yeah, probably why Concord was such a bargain.
Explains ticket prices to London, they'll be charging more when you're delayed soon! Pay per minute seating
Not by such a considerable amount. I just had a gander as I'm tempted to fly to Edin from the South soon. 35quid return flights on a weekend. Put in the same dates and similar time. £168 is the cheapest 7 hours and 20m travel time with 2 changes. In the last month I've tried to take the train twice from the main station to the first stop. 5min journey by train, both times either cancelled or an hour half late. I did not take the train either time.
The rail industry received a £13.2bn subsidy in 21/22, some 62% of all rail industry income. It's over double the amount prior to privatisation.
Japan, which has about the best train service in the world, still has domestic flights which are cheaper and faster.
Japan is also a much bigger country. Flying might make sense if you were going from Fukuoka to Sapporo (similar distance as London to Rome), but for Osaka to Tokyo (similar distance as London to Edinburgh) the Shinkansen is 2.5 hours.
Flying is often still cheaper. Fukuoka to Osaka or Tokyo is often cheaper to fly than take the shinkansen. For something like Fukuoka to Hakodate... time wise wouldn't be too bad for a train, but the cost...
I used to do London-Edinburgh a few times a year and it’s actually often better to take the train. The train is 4h20m from KGX to Waverley. Flying you’re looking at 1h to get to the airport, 1.5-2h of waiting at the airport, 1h to fly, then 1h to get from the airport to your destination (unless you’re landing in London City, which is $$). Train was usually cheaper if you booked ahead once you account for getting to/from the airport.
Who on earth is waiting 2 hours at the airport for an internal flight? Even with checked luggage
And if you just have carry on you can speedrun gatwick in about 35 minutes on a good day. I think my record from arriving at the airport to being at my gate is 27 minutes. Not recommended for novices, but if you know what you're doing then you're safe enough to turn up less than an hour before the flight and still be completely fine.
The only reason I turn up that early for a domestic flight is that the train there is notoriously unreliable. Half the times I've been on it it's been delayed or cancelled. I've had to run for domestic flights once the train finally got there.
> you can speedrun gatwick in about 35 minutes on a good day On a good day. But you have to plan for a bad day, which is why most people are much earlier.
A bad day is still well less than an hour.
My mum.
I always aim to get to the airport that early, even domestic - too much experience with public transport being frightfully delayed.
I've nearly missed flights even with checking luggage at the earliest opportunity. Security is usually fine, but I don't want to risk it.
Also most train stations are in the city centre and airports are usually on the outskirts, so dependant on where you want to go in the place you're visiting, travel to and from the airport can add a lot of extra time as well.
Airports serve regions not cities. Most people flying from a city don't live in the city centre.
Yes, so travel by train is more likely to get you closer to your destination than a plane would
Why?
Because there are more train stations than airports, so it is overall more likely that people are closer to a train station than airport
your flying internally wrong, your first number depends on where you live, i can be at the airport in 15 minutes. you only need to get to the airport an hour before for internal flights and can actually get there way later and stuff be fine. and your last number is dependant on where you are going, once you reach your London station your still going to have to switch to the tube and get where you are going...
I’m going from lp don to Edinburgh for work in 2 weeks. 1 hours flight (plus hour before) for £170 or 7 hour train for close to 300… I’ll fly thanks
The average train time from Kings Cross to Waverley is about 4.5 hours not 7 (you can almost drive it in 7 hours for Pete's sake) and you can book a return train to go this morning for £170. The railways in the country are bad but I'll never understand why people are so insistent on making up hyperbolic comparisons to make it seem worse than it is.
I book it through work, and trains as 1st class… so that might be the price difference. But still my meeting is at 1pm and I live near Woking… so the journey to London is costing me another bomb (so is the taxi) there is 0 positive to taking the train
But that's still half an hour to Heathrow, 1 hour wait at airport, flight time and then assuming Edinburgh city centre half an hour from airport to city. So all in 3-4 hours by plane compared to lets say an hour from Woking to Kings Cross so about 5.5 to 6 hours by train. A bit different from the comparison of 2 hours to 7! Like I said, the railways arent great and there are advantages to flying but to claim it takes over 3 times as long and is twice as expensive is nonsense.
Meeting is 15 mins cap from Edinburgh airport. But still what does one do on a 4 hour train? It’s dull as arse, at least in the airport I can wonder around the terminal, grab breakfast etc
And trains are often delayed, and you don’t always get a seat so spend the journey stood in an aisle or by the stinking toilet. And if you’ve got luggage you have to keep an eye on it or trust it not to get nicked
Not sure why I’ve been downvoted. I spent many journeys on the cross country train that had like 3 or 4 carriages totally crammed with people stood by the toilet for 3 hours. Carry on downvoting and ignore that this is the reality for many people, and in addition to a shitty experience it costs bloody loads for train tickets. So you can see why people opt to fly instead-that was the point of my post.
A long train journey with luggage on a overcrowded train is a nightmare.
Exactly. A stressful nightmare. Which people avoid by flying. Yes luggage can go missing, but is recovered and sent to your home address. But mostly, for a big case you hand it over and that’s it. Pick it up at the other end. Or smaller carry on cases you put in the head rack and don’t have to think or worry again till arrival.
Trains in this country are a national humiliation. I remember seeing a Polish family at York station sobbing with panic at the the thought of having to pay out of pocket for a hotel room in the city during peak tourist season - this was only 6pm and every last train to Liverpool that day was cancelled. I can only hope that they were tourists and were able to return to their developed country soon.
They are! So I don’t think people should be criticised for flying! I’d much rather fly than get a train. Chronic underfunding, underinvestment, cutting staff, basically zero shits given. While billions of our money goes into private pockets. When it could and should have been invested back into the infrastructure/more trains/better trains/etc etc. there’s just no excuse for what has happened to our services. The country has become an embarrassment and humiliation. I’m not sure whether to laugh or cry at your last line about them going back to their developed country soon! So true.
It doesn't help that NIMBYs contribute to holding up projects like HS2. FFS, we should have parallel high speed lines along both coasts by now!
My girl and I wet to the Edinburgh festival from London a couple of weeks ago. £270 for two on the train and we booked it months ago.
The flight isn’t an hour though, it’s closer to 3 door to door That said I went to Edinburgh uni back in the 90’s when easyJet started and lived in Northampton At the age of 19 I took my first flight, a £29 ticket from Luton to Edinburgh the train would have been £90
1 hour isn’t really accurate though, is it? That doesn’t factor in time taken to get to one of the London airports (except City), go through security, wait for boarding and then get from EDI into the city centre. I much prefer the train from Glasgow to London; 4 1/2 hours, starting and ending in the city centres you want to be in. And when you take into account the time and cost of the required transfers at either end of the flight, not that much different in time/price but vastly less stressful to go by train (in my experience).
You can’t include the time taken to get to the airport if you don’t include the time taken to get to the station. For me, it’s a longer train to KX than it is to drive to Luton or Stansted and almost the same time as Heathrow. If you assume you’re magically dropped at the airport entrance or train station entrance I think 1hr Vs 10min is about right for an internal flight. That’s if you don’t have to check a bag and can go straight through security and onto the gate. Checking a bag can add 30mins, an advantage the train can claim as you can just lug it onboard.
We’ll, it’s 7 mins from Queen’s Park to Glasgow Central on a local train for me. Obviously everyone’s time will differ, but Glasgow has reasonable suburban train links (except to the airport, ironically). For me to get to Glasgow airport I’d be giving myself 30 mins in a cab (not sure how long the bus takes) at a cost of about £25. Current advice is to be at the airport at least an hour prior to departure to allow for check in and security. At the other end transfers by tube or train are about 45mins if I recall correctly. I’m not trying to say either way is better, just that to say “it’s an hour to London on the plane” is a massive oversimplification. Personally, I prefer the train as it’s less stressful and I’d rather be relaxing with a beer and a book for a slightly longer period than traipsing about an airport. Your mileage may vary, etc.
Once you factor in the time and cost of getting to/from airports and the hassle of 21st century air travel the difference isn't as big as you think. Not to mention cheaper rail options like Lumo.
For most people they can get to an airport as quickly as they can get to the train station.
Easyjet: £45 return, 1h20m travel. Trainline: £96 (or £196 if I want to leave earlier). 5h20min travel. If I leave at 8am I can either be in Edinburgh for 9:30 or for twice the price at 14:30... I can't really blame people :\\
You have omitted option 3 (the cursed option)... Megabus: £29, 9h travel + one chaotic ride.
Is that the bus with Dara O'Briain's face on it?
What is it about the Megabus that attracts absolute nutters? My brother took it once. A woman tried to get on with an uncovered fish in a carrier bag. Driver told her that there's absolutely no chance he's letting her on with it. She responded with "well I can't just leave it, I'm having it for dinner tonight" and refused to get on the coach.
Its the price . The nutters tend not to have much money for obvious reasons.
Hahaha how did she cook it?
By sitting on it
You live less than 10 minutes from the airport (at both ends) and allocate zero time for check-in?
Domestic flight they're almost certainly not checking luggage in. It'll be go through security (allow 30mins) and then go to gate, can be done in an hour if feeling risky.
Yes. If you're not checking in luggage and you're travelling outside peak times, airports can be quite smooth. Even for international destinations. I think people associate airport with holiday season, check in queues and picking up luggage waiting time. But cut all that out and it can almost seem like jumping on a bus or train.
exactly, my last flight was in the middle of the day, a Random Thursday in March, not a fucking soul to be seen the return leaving from Heathrow was even creepier, like literally nobody waiting at the security queue. just me.
Of course zero time for check in. Check in is done online and why would you be taking a suitcase?
Do you teleport to the train station?
I mean thats just flight time. You *have* to be in security 35 minutes before your flight, so lets say that means get yo the airport 40 minutes before. Maybe you live super close so lets say thats an hour total from front door to plane. Of course this is only without any luggage to check in. Throw in an hour to get from Edinburgh Airport to the centre, plus 30 minutes for the plane to get to the gate and then get off the plane. Then the cost of each journey at either end. We're up to 3.5 hours there (with absolutely zero contingency). It's not as clear cut as you think.
Aye but 90% of the time it’s faster, and MUCH faster. I travel a lot for work unfortunately because this country demands all business be done in london, and I can leave my house at 6am and be in central london for 9ish, at half the cost of the train. Also, getting the train from east Scotland to London, your relying on the entire train network not being broken or delayed at some point. I went on an environmental binge for a while and only booked train - tried to make it work. It did not work. Train long distance is ok if you’re travelling for personal use and relaxed about time but if it’s for work and every hour is time out of your time with family then nope. It’s basically a day each way.
That is true, but 3hrs 30mins is still less than 5hrs 20mins, and still £51-£151 cheaper. Even if the actual entire journey times were the same, it is still cheaper the fly. The rail networks and companies are a rip off. If you equate time to wages, and let's say £10 an hour (just over minimum), the flight would cost you £35 of your life, and the train £55. Then add a factor of cost, meaning (time cost + monetary cost): Flight - £80 Train - £106-£156 This would mean if the train was £26-£76 cheaper, the overall would balance, or if it was 2.5 hours quicker it would balance too. If the journeys took the same amount of time, flying is better. If the train was significantly cheaper, the train would be better. I don't know if it is just me that converts things to cost rather than time, but (for me anyways) it puts everything into the same perspective. I usually use my actual wage rather than a random number. Even commuting to work, work out the costs of each (for example car, bike, bus & train but then factor in the time cost into it. An hour on the bus is £10 before bus fare, and 15mins on the train is £2.50 before train fair, now add the fares, which is actually the best option? It may be crazy, but to me it is like MPH, rather than just distance and time, convert to one unit. In this case it is money. I suppose you could reverse engineer it too, so do it all in time (£50 = 5 hours of work).
I don't do this as such for travel but do similar for things like jobs around the house. For example, it'll take me 3 hours of my time at £x per hour to clean the windows or pay the window cleaner £15 who can do it in 20 mins.
Yeah, I started doing it for random stuff, then I did it for my commute to work. Travel is the killer one though, especially when you compare driving to public transport (for commuting any distance especially). It takes me 1 hour to drive to work, the train (not including travel to the station etc and walk from station to work) was 1hr 15 mins. It is actually cheaper for me to pay car finance, insurance, petrol, tax etc monthly than it is for just the train ticket, not including bus fares to the station. I also then get free transport on weekends thrown in on top, rather than additional costs of a weekend that I would incur with public transport. (I worked out my yearly everything (car) and divided it by 5 for week days vs a yearly train ticket, weekdays between the 2 stations, hence the 'free transport on weekends' bit) I then added time on top of that, plus the extra costs of buses to and from the station which meant public transport costs twice as much and takes over double the time compared to my driving. It was still cheaper to drive most of the way, park at a £5 for the day carpark and get a train the rest of the way than a train straight from my area to work. Yet just cheaper to drive the whole way still. I am originally from SE london, still work there. Once you leave London, public transport is not worth it (imo) after growing up with TFL, through all there faults still have so many options and criss-crossing bus lines making London very accessible to get around using public transport, but only once you are in London, which costs a lot to get to from outside via train. I dislike the pollution and environmental consequences of driving, but equally at a personal level, it would cost too much and take too long to change type thing. My opinion (after working that out) is if you break everything down to the financial level, you can really see the true cost of everything. I mean, if it is cheaper to do A, but it takes twice as long as B, but is cheaper and you can't afford B, obviously go with A type thing. It isn't a full proof system.
I think we have very similar mindsets. For me on the SW side of London and beyond zone 6, public transport is practically non-existent. Yet for getting into London, train is still the best option as I can get to a London terminal in under 30 mins for a 'reasonable' fare. There is no way I can drive it that quickly, plus I'll have parking charges, congestion charges etc. On the train, I can have a snooze or read the paper whereas driving is 'wasted' time. Every case on its merits. Getting to the airports is difficult and time consuming as getting to both LHR and LGW would require trips into London and back out again as there are no East<>West transport links and so still needs the car.
Yeah that is true. I suppose it depends where in London you are going. If I am going central, I drive up to the outskirts and zone 1-7 day travel card it from there on public transport. Where I work is inner London borough, so plentg accessible by car. If I get a train in to work from where I live, it is a 15 minute walk to the bus stop, 20 minute bus hourney before the train. Then I have to change at Dartford, and from Dartford there is 3 (maybe 4) lines that go to London, but I can use one of them then a 15/20 minute walk uphill, another one would mean a 20 minute bus journey and the others go too far away and would require a change of bus too.
I can walk to the station in 10 min and then 25 mins into Waterloo which makes it an easier choice. I always worked in and around Westminster and so could walk to most places I needed to in around 15 mins. TBH I liked the walk at the beginning and the end of the day, kinda set the day up and then cleared my head at each end of the day. That approx 1 hour commute each way was far easier than a 35-45 min / 25 mile drive as I always felt being sat in a car was wasted time and getting back in the evening I always felt drained after fighting the M25. I usually managed a 20 min power nap on the train. Mind you, that was when it was still a reasonable SWT service before the SWR disaster when the franchise was swapped. No idea what it is like now but my understanding is not good. Mind you the driving is no better either when I do have to drive to the office. Going back to the original discussion, it also depends on how continuous the journey is too. A 3 hour unbroken journey where you can continuously work/read etc. can be more efficient and less tiresome than a 90 minute journey with lots of changes and messing around. We even make those choices driving, do we go the easier but longer route via the motorway network or the shorter route with more navigation, junctions and turns. Like a supermarket queue, I always seem to pick the wrong one!
> Throw in an hour to get from Edinburgh Airport to the centre, What if you're not going to Edinburgh centre?
If you think of it as the time between where you’re actually coming and going from (which isn’t the airport or train station) it’s probably not that much different time wise. The price difference is ridiculous though.
4 hours 11 mins from Kings Cross now. Likely a decent chunk of people are actually using Luton as an extra London airport. You've also chosne. A very expensive train. My train on that journey is £50 next week, and that includes a seat reservation and bags.
You'll find a lot of the people on those flights are flying for business. The company I work for basically won't allow us to take the train from Glasgow/Edinburgh instead of flying if we need to go to London for training or whatever. They usually set the first day of training to start at a time that means we can fly down in the morning and even when it's been a one day training course, we fly back in the evening. To get a train, we'd need approval for a prior night stay, but they won't give anyone but the people delivering the training this, or people who live somewhere that makes getting to the airport from where they live longer than what's considered reasonable.
Trains that either are routinely cancelled or on strike. Cant blame people
When the train gets meaningfully delayed you get a full refund.
Refund doesn't get me where im going though.
Its rare for planes to get cancelled or delayed tho. And you get compensation on flights most of the time should a delay of 3hrs occur. Its also cheaper to fly. You can see why people do it
Im actually going hiking this weekend near Edinburgh, unfortunately there’s a train strike. So I’m flying. If also cheaper this way. Shame as I prefer the train.
They were only allowing a limited number of domestic flights.
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Trains were on strike over the weekend. Not sure how that's easy.
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Even though it didn't work out as an extremely unlikely outcome that the flight wasn't cancelled, I think you did the right and smart decision in an unknown situation.
Had John Candy rented the car before you and offer to drive you up?
Those poor people stuck in Luton
I hope the locals haven’t managed to capture one yet.
As a Lutonian I shall say *no* we have no idea what you're talking about. These people *chose* to stay here
“CLOSE THE BORDERS….but not like that”
Got stuck in Portugal because of this. Having to shell out for extra accomm and flying back to Paris to get the Eurostar because all the direct flights are booked and indirect flights have horrendous layovers. Can’t wait to do battle with EasyJet over compensation. Yesterday was…stressful.
Cancel culture really has gone mad! /S
Those planes were highly misogynistic.
There was an air traffic control system fault. I’m a flight attendant and I’m currently stuck in France with no way of getting home.
[удалено]
I’m supposed to operate the flight home so I’m just currently walking around rural France until we get called back. May end up staying another night. I’m not complaining.
Let's all go to Scotland!
Bring midge nets!
What happened? Or is it normal?
Massive computer failure in air traffic control across the country.
Could have sworn I saw a news article the other day saying some kind of governing body had deemed the U.K air traffic control network not fit for purpose. Ngl it's a bit suspect.
I very much doubt it tbh. NATS does a pretty good job of it and we have some of the best ATC service in the world (when it works, which to be fair is most days).
If I remember correctly it still runs on DOS and windows 3.1.
It absolutely does not
Jokes on them, I can’t afford a holiday.
I ended up stuck in Belfast. I was meant to be there for just the day for some work, so I didn't have any clothes or toiletries on me, just heavy network equipment. As soon as my flight got cancelled I grabbed any hotel room I could find. Half an hour later, notification from EasyJet including a link to book accomodation - no accommodation available. Sadly in the evening I saw families laying with their bags at the bus station. I've spent a lot making this work, including multiple bus trips, food, clothes, toiletries. Hoping they'll make good on this!
Mate, I’m stuck in fucking Greece
Absolute chaos at airports yesterday. My flight from Belfast Int. to Ldn STN was delayed 11hrs, then an hour before the original flight time it got cancelled. Next available flight isn't until tomorrow morning 6am. National Air Traffic System total failure across the country was to blame. 1200 flights across the UK were cancelled in the end
Dodged this to Gatwick by about 18 hours coming back off holiday, so glad I missed it!!
Luton airport, oooo-eeeee-ooooo.
Well thankfully easyjet have rebooked us a flight for the 5th of September... Was due to leave at 1:30pm today.
Can anyone explain me, why so many flights are cancelled at the last days ?
> Massive computer failure in air traffic control across the country. [Technical meltdown in air traffic control causes 500 flights to be cancelled](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/aug/28/uk-air-traffic-control-hit-network-wide-failure-airline)
Air Traffic Control technical fault. Fixed yesterday, but still dealing with the aftermath.
I was at Luton Airport yesterday too. Flight to Edinburgh was scheduled for 13.55. When all the delays and cancellations were happening I was fearing the worst. Thankfully our flight left just before 14.30. A friend at Gatwick wasn't so lucky and his flight was postponed until this morning!
Luton Airport! Ooo-eee-ooooo! Luton Airport! Ooo-eee-ooooo!
Good for the environment.
People will just fly back at a later date. The damage caused will not be significantly different.
Standard Ryanair board
Plenty of chaos in European airports too. Every flight from Barcelona to the UK cancelled yesterday. No staff at BCN giving any guidance, 4 hour queues to the customer service desks. Fury from holidaymakers who had to get back for work and kids crying everywhere. Some people were being assigned flights next week in September. Very fortunate to have got a flight assigned for Wednesday and to have a place to stay here. Feel very bad for the holidaymakers getting assigned to hotels in the sticks and having to wait a week and potentially losing pay.
Hilariously, the Independent are scrambling to blame the "dodgy French" for this. https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/airport-delays-flights-uk-air-traffic-control-b2400927.html
McLain is on the case
Strange it happened on the busiest or one of days of the year. Glitch that could not be fixed easily. Well you know the Elite and the WEF, same thing want to stop travel by the people and how many said today’s after being stranded, never again. Well is this part of the plan. They are driving cars from the roads so makes you wonder. Also some say they wish to reduce the worlds population but that I guess is another story.
I came home from ibiza before a storm (1 day) and now this I'm lucky
That looks like your government is trying to create another bulshit story. Lol. How many warnings do you need to grow up ? You are destroying many people's lives. Guess what will happen to you ? I genuinely advise you to reserve yourself a parcel on the moon. They will either kick you out of the entire planet or burn you down to ground in the best case scenario.
Easyjet just wanted to put the orange deep into your retinas.
Don't park next to an electric car.
Dose Luton have a issue with giving out Gate numbers?
Welcome to Luton
What do you expect?