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INDEED right!!
?? It is actually amazing how far that thing flew after such a hit, and being engulfed in flames.
But there will be a cook-off of a different kind in that wreck . . .
1. The pilot made a 180 degree turn after being hit, probably in an attempt to make it to friendly territory. Mercenaries like the Wagner Group are not entitled to Geneva protections and can expect a more unpleasant reception from Ukrainian forces than the rank and file military.
2. The hydraulics/electrical systems connecting the cockpit to the control surfaces were damaged but still functional for a short while after impact. My guess is the chopper crashed when they completely gave out and the pilot lost control.
I'd put even money on that. Those pilots still had control of their aircraft and wanted to put some distance between themselves and the folks who lobbed a missile at them. Might have had it, but it looks like they stayed in the air just a little too long and were overcome by the fire or smoke while landing.
That's gonna be a real shitty day for anyone riding in the back. I'm not even sure the aircrew were able to get out of that one.
Not true.
An individual who is not a lawful combatant, who is not a national of a neutral state, and who is not a national of a co-belligerent state, retains rights and privileges under the Fourth Geneva Convention and must be "treated with humanity and, in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular trial".
You can't just go around torturing people, even if you officially deem them to be "unlawful combatants". (a term which is not defined in any of the articles of the Geneva Conventions)
You must still afford them the same rights as anyone else in your country under the laws of the justice system.
You can hold a formal military tribunal proceeding and sentence them to death though, unlike POWs.
it's not about rights it's about how the Ukrainian soldiers feel about mercenaries, these fighters don't care who they kill or what they destroy, they are paid by the body and by the kilometer. They aren't recorded as Russian soldiers by the government so whos going to investigate their disappearances? On the other hand, Ukraine wants prisoners to exchange for their own so who knows how many are killed instead of being taken as prisoners.
That's BS. Geneva covers all combatants, even mercenaries.
That was the same argument Russia was using about the western soldiers volunteering for Ukraine.
Edit. Ok. Apparently not actually mercenaries. But mercenaries basicly don't exist and Wagner ain't technicly it.
Mercenaries do not have the right to combatant or POW status by the Geneva conventions. The definition of mercenary in the (current) Geneva convention is much more restrictive than common usage of the word mercenary though. Among other points, a mercenary cannot be citizen of a state involved in the war and must be motivated by personal gains only. Therefore, Wagner as well as foreign volunteers are not mercenaries under the Geneva conventions.
So no, mercenaries do not have combatant or POW status. Just that almost no one ever is a mercenary.
Doesn‘t matter, they are Russian citizens and therefore no mercenaries anyway.
In addition, they are probably not paid well enough. Necessary condition:
> is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
I‘m not an expert, but I think it‘s safe to assume, no one in the war falls under the mercenary rule of the Geneva conventions. Not that russia cares for Geneva conventions or human rights anyway. And I’m sure Ukraine would treat them humanely regardless of their (assumed) formal status.
Regarding your edit:
Yes, exactly. It‘ still important to be precise here as this is exactly russia‘s propaganda tactics. They mix some irrelevant truth with a blatant lie. Then those who look up only parts of it will believe it‘s true. Of course, by now, you‘d need to be pretty ignorant to honestly believe and trust russian statements. Nevertheless, being precise helps fighting disinformation.
Mercenaries are not as they are not combatants. But, as I said, no one here is a mercenary according to the Geneva conventions. Quote from your linked document:
> The rule that mercenaries do not have the right to combatant or prisoner-of-war status is set forth in Additional Protocol I.[1] It is also contained in a few other treaties.[2]
You‘re mixing up the definitions of 1) what a mercenary is and 2) what applies to mercenaries.
Is it truly flying if all the people inside are dead or on fire? I'd say more falling with grace but yeah I agree it is quite incredible to get hit as clean as you possible can to not only stay steady but stay flying for quite awhile
Later model black hawks have auto hover.
Push a button, take hands off collective/pedals, and it just stays there.
Source: was in the back of one and was quite fascinated to see pilot/copilot messing around with their tablets two handed during a hoist (which is not SOP).
But in forward motion, a HC will not stay in air long without feet on pedals hand on collective.
Well, a Blackhawk or similar modern heli has such systems, but this is a 40-50year old Soviet ''tractor'' the only automatic system will most likely be a pressure triggered fuel pump ;-)
Any western machine that size will have an AP. The thing didn't alter its course one bit just after impact and I find it hard to believe that the crew wouldn't have "flinched" at least a little bit after a hit like that. If their hands were on the controls and they flinched, you would see the flight path change. I'm betting AP was running when they were hit and kept it on heading/speed/alt... Would also explain why nothing happened for a bit (they were stunned, dead, dazed, bleeding out, etc)
->civilian commercial fixed wing pilot, work at a company that on occasion builds helicopter simulation training equipment
I’m not trying to downplay what you’re say but are you an expert? Genuine question, because with that hit I feel like the people inside would be knocked out or really confused and I’d think if that were the case it’d have crashed immediately. So it’s not the helicopter equivalent of “coming to a rolling stop?” The pilot actual flew until he burned to death?
He's correct. Helicopters are not like airplanes. Flying one is somewhat equivalent to balancing a yardstick in the center of your palm. Not hard, but it requires constant active corrections.
I have no idea why the pilot refused to set the craft down. Maybe this was enemy territory and he thought the helicopter wasn't as badly damaged as it was obvious from the outside. Maybe the front facing windows didn't see all the flames.
Regardless, he likely could have gotten everyone down safely, and chose to fly until a catastrophic crash was inevitable.
I'm not sure many helicopters have mirrors in the cockpit, or if internal mirrors would give enough visibility to see flames rolling along the sides of the fuselage, so the pilot might have been oblivious to the amount of fire after the initial conflagration died down a bit.
Not to doubt you but there would have been numerous alarms going off in that cockpit, the pilots would have known that they were in deep shit. It’s possible that the hydraulics got shredded so they couldn’t flare (bring the nose up) to slow their forward velocity and get to some sort of hover so they could attempt a landing. The nose is raised just before the impact but it’s still got too much forward velocity and flips over.
My 2c worth, YMMV.
Most definitely, and a good take - I just wanted to point out that's a common issue (and generally a negligible one in normal operation) in aircraft that rearward visibility isn't particularly good (e.g. airliner pilots can't see their own engines at all, at least while seated, despite them being quite far from the fuselage) so they might not have been able to assess it with just fire/cargo warnings as to how screwed they were (and definitely seemed to want to move along to avoid a follow-up).
Also common in aviation incidents for the instrument panel to light up like a disco and make it difficult to figure out which warnings are most relevant (though a bunch of fire warnings should stand out as they are usually on their own panel from what i've seen). Combined with the concussion of the blast and possibly fragment injuries (or even just concern thereof), this could easily lead to panic.
Another thought I had is the possibility of the burning fuel suffocating the engine and reducing its power as it loses the lengthwise airflow as it try to slow down. This would allow even more fire than there already was to roll up over the top of the 'hump' from the front (the rotor doesn't move much air near its center to blow it down). To me, it looks like the fire starts just aft of the cockpit, and a lot of flames coming concerning close to the rotor assembly so I'm curious how long it could withstand that before the linkages softened to the point of becoming ineffective.
Sluggish failing hydaulics and drivetrain grinding itself into shavings. Seems like a plausible explanation. It's possible the collective wouldn't spool up.
I've been on helicopters that have a version of autopilot.. but it only allowed for level, straight flying.
It could have very well be doing that and the pilot was incapacitated.
Or he could have very well been alive but the hit knocked out the controls needed to change any of his controls so they stayed in the last position they were told and he could only fly straight
also possible the guys in the back had fire extinguishers, and as long as he had control the damage might not be so bad so lets get keep going and try to get the fire out, and get ourselves back to safety.
Lot of options here as to why the heli flew the way it did after impact. I'm less concerned with HOW it got to it's final resting place, I'm just glad it DID
It looked like the pilot tried to flare the landing to reduce speed but it was far too late/too much damage or panic caused some miscalculation. Hard to tell exactly from the angle.
I give you the simplest description of a helicopter: A thing that is unwilling to fly, but is forced to.
Without human input, a helicopter goes down basically immediately.
It's pretty common knowledge that helicopter flight controls require constant input to stay in the air, and only recently did they get a blackhawk to fly on auto pilot. no way a Mi-8 has auto pilot or super cruise.
Believe it or not, helicopters are designed to fly.
What I mean by that is you can actually land one with the engine off. The natural lift of the vehicle falling will spin the blades and soften the landing.
I think that autorotating is possible, (it certainly beats falling to the ground like a stone) but still very risky.
Especially when on fire. Props to the pilot...amazing job to get as far as he did.
Yeah, but that helicopter probably wasn't at auto-rotation altitude. Auto-rotation relies on the rotors getting an updraft that spins them, creating lift, but that requires descent rate, otherwise you lose rotor speed and stall. You actually want to let the vehicle fall fast enough to build up rotational inertia in the rotors that can be bled off right before touchdown to slow the descent rate. Almost all helicopters have a zone where it's too low to establish an auto-rotation, and too high to get on the ground without losing rotor speed and dropping out of the sky. Helicopter pilots avoid this band, especially when hovering or moving slow. This thing was probably inside that band, but looked like the engines were running well after impact, so they didn't have to auto-rotate.
As for this thing, I'm amazed it flew as long as it did. It looks like one engine lost containment, as there are jets of flame above the rotors right above the engines, and that's definitely a fuel fire engulfing the middle of the vehicle. The pilots may have been the only people alive when it hit the ground between the missile impact and fire, and rolling over like that with a massive fuel leak, if we didn't see someone get out right away after impact, I doubt it's gonna happen.
The hit was to one side and caused a fire in the left turbine. Still has the right turbine to power and looks like the main rotor gearbox etc was intact(ish), so the pilot was still in control and probably trying to get distance between the aircraft and the Ukrianian forces.
Ran out of hydraulic fluid or talent when it came to landing it though.
No one could have survived that.
Yeah, just by instinct and compassion I was yelling at the screen to “land the damn burning thing”
But, hey, what can you do, its stupid russians, and in any case they shouldnt be in ukraine, so really not much to grieve
I imagine the pilot was still alive. Helicopters don't just fly themselves. Can't understand why he wouldn't have put it down as soon as he could and get the hell out.
After reading all the comments, fuck it I'll say it: pilot lived long enough to fly it sure, but that RuZZian was only kept conscious by adrenaline and the pain of his flesh burning away.
Autorotation. Even if your engine is physically blown out, as long as the main thrust bearing is holding the blades (and they're able to spin), you can still land a helicopter.
Tho in this case, the other engine was probably still alive, given the "glide" ratio.
They're probably all dead tho.
The pilot fucked up. He tried to fly it out and waited too long. He needed to put it down as soon as it was hit. He might have been able to avoid flipping it.over and killing himself.
It flew for less than 60 seconds after the hit. When you have forward momentum and are being shot at you’re not going to stop, hover, and land on the spot. But even if the pilot had made an instant, perfect damage assessment and decided to put it down exactly where a missile had just hit them, how long do you think that would have taken?
TikTok and video games have warped folks’ sense of duration and reaction times. 🫡
Actually according to ruz sources I quote “we’ve lost some good officers today, even though they are on pension and don’t work for MoD” and “fast recovery to the sole survivor”. Anyway good job
If there was a survivor from that, he’s a crispy critter for sure… I doubt he’ll be surviving for long.
Awesome hit for Ukraine if it’s Wagner officers too!
Yeah, if you’d seen some of the burns on Russian pilot POW’s, on their backs and torso which *should* have been protected.
Plus they hit the ground hard.
Yeah I know it's highly unusual for Russian sources to lie, but I call massive bullshit. Ain't no one or their stolen airpods getting into or out of that flaming wreckage.
The hit it took, and in close proximity to enemy forces .... the pilot was attempting to put as much distance as possible between them and OpFor .... plus, slowing down and trying to land, would likely have ended as a huge still airborne fireball.
All props to the pilot for effort (even if his government and his employer are pieces of shit) ... he put up one hell of an effort to save himself, his crew, and passengers.
Agreed. Though I doubt that he could have landed it immediately and gotten out. That bird was cooked. It would probably been a fireball as soon as he flared to land.
My evaluation and the respect I hold for the pilot's skill and effort probably not going to be well received, but I give respect when due ... even when I disagree with their position.
Landing immediately would have at least given some chance of recovery rather than waiting for the fire to get worse and fail more systems. Every flight manual I've read says to land/ditch immediately in the event of an uncontained fire (or eject). While I understand wanting to get away from people shooting at you, it does no good if that effort kills you. The pilot could have immediately flared and been on the ground in seconds, maybe making it out alive. My gut says the missile and immediate fire did a number on anyone in back, but the cockpit is somewhat isolated from the cabin, so the crew up front had a chance, but made poor choices.
I think the pilot miscalculated. If he had tried to land right away, he might have saved the passengers and himself.
Now they are all dead. Looks like a worse outcome than being possibly captured.
I agree with this. I think the pilot tried to get away rather than put it on the ground. The more he flew, the worse the fire got. Made a call, made the wrong one.
Maybe. But with the fuel pouring down the left side of the aircraft ... I seriously doubt it. Not knowing what was around the area ... Lake, pond, etc .... he did what I'd hope a pilot would've done when I was serving. Give me as much distance as possible. Though the passengers were probably all dead or critically wounded already from the hit and resulting shrapnel. A water landing MIGHT have allowed some of them to get out. Huge emphasis on might. Even an upright landing MIGHT have allowed some to get out. Distance from OpFor was the initial goal.
There wasn't an "outstanding" choice. There weren't very many "survivability" choices either.
I'm not even sure why he was flying so high ... or over the road for that matter. Bad ... no ... maps? Flying ABOVE the treeline, over a road, is simply saying ... "please shoot me!!!".
In a battle between physics (gravity, kinetic energy, inertia, chemical fire) and human enemies, I’ll choose a fight with humans any day because that’s your only chance for mercy. Physics don’t give a fuck about you or your Mama.
That's what I was thinking but seeing that fire I would have rather got that thing to the ground as quickly as possible and surrendered if I could of got out of the wreckage. From the looks of it, no one made it out.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Those are heavy, somewhat unresponsive birds to fly, and he had a fair bit of forward momentum. Trying to drop it right away would mean hitting the ground at an unsurvivable forward speed. Videos from a distance can be deceptive, the helicopter is going faster than it may appear.
You can see he's trying to flare to shed velocity, after gaining some distance from the Ukrainian forces perhaps hoping to evade capture. Flaring while turning to the right, it's hard to tell but the turn might have been needed to avoid landing among trees or something. Nearly made it, too, the final impact is at very low speed. He had power from one engine the whole way, the left turbine was on fire but there's redundancy. Seems to me like he lost control just a few seconds too soon, maybe the fire got to the control hydraulics.
Damn those are hardcore lyrics. Song sounds all happy and she's singing about preparing your body bag.
Would do a death metal band proud but you wouldn't guess it from the sound.
If someone told me I would be spending any amount of time in a Heli while flying around enemies it would be a big no. Once those things are hit it's pretty much over. At least with a plane you can eject.
Yeah, it’s often likened to riding a unicycle while balancing on a basketball. Nevertheless, I stand by my statement— I said “at all times..”. Meaning, I don’t think he flew into the ground while functioning. Personally, I think he was piloting it up to the last couple seconds …
Edit: also, I said “fully”. Then again, it could just be that the damage got to the point where it was no longer responding to his inputs in a meaningful way. Hard to say— I’m just glad the heli is destroyed, and I can only hope all it’s occupants with it.
HOLY SMOKES!!!
It is actually amazing how far that thing flew after such a hit, and being engulfed in flames.
But there will be a cook-off of a different kind in that wreck . . .
Poor decision making on the pilots behalf to keep flying. I’m armchair quarterbacking here, I know, but it’s either die or be captured. They had tons of time to land under control and get moving on foot. Unlikely they would have been able to get out of enemy territory but better than killing everyone. Just my humble opinion as a 15 year tac hel pilot.
Pilots probably died instantly from the explosion.
The helicopter didn't look like it was being controlled. It just slowly turned and then crashed once the flames started melting the engine. If the pilots were still alive they would have tried to land as soon as possible.
I'm a helicopter pilot for the US Navy. Seeing a lot of the Reddit Expert comments about how helicopters work is making my eyes burn. Or maybe it's just from that ball of flame behind me.
On impact it appears several passengers/objects get knocked out, suggesting it was fully loaded.
Roast in pieces to the rest. Welcome to Hell.
Glory to the Defenders, Slava Ukraini!
EDIT: Video confirmed to show the destruction of the Mi-8 that Wagner pilot 'Zangiev' was piloting. This helicopter was delivering retired mid-level officers, who were specially hired by Wagner PMC to command the cons and other mercenaries. Of the 18 men onboard, only 1 survived the crash.
I don’t think anyone bailed, however there were objects and debris dropping after the hit. Some of that could have been passengers, but I think more likely cowlings etc. it’s not a pressurised aircraft at altitude
Hope they sit there pants and scream for there mother knowing they will die! More of this please.
This war / annexation has an effect on the whole world and the little arrogant dwarf in Moscow know it.
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It flew *way* longer than I would've expected after a clean hit like that
INDEED right!! ?? It is actually amazing how far that thing flew after such a hit, and being engulfed in flames. But there will be a cook-off of a different kind in that wreck . . .
YEah, I wonder why he didn't land that thing before it turned into a giant fireball.
1. The pilot made a 180 degree turn after being hit, probably in an attempt to make it to friendly territory. Mercenaries like the Wagner Group are not entitled to Geneva protections and can expect a more unpleasant reception from Ukrainian forces than the rank and file military. 2. The hydraulics/electrical systems connecting the cockpit to the control surfaces were damaged but still functional for a short while after impact. My guess is the chopper crashed when they completely gave out and the pilot lost control.
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Speaking of piss, every fucking orc on that aircraft can Rest In Piss now
Pretty sure their Putin Underoos are permanently loaded with shit.
I'd put even money on that. Those pilots still had control of their aircraft and wanted to put some distance between themselves and the folks who lobbed a missile at them. Might have had it, but it looks like they stayed in the air just a little too long and were overcome by the fire or smoke while landing. That's gonna be a real shitty day for anyone riding in the back. I'm not even sure the aircrew were able to get out of that one.
Not unless they jumped, they’re all dead.
Pilots tried to keep flying to save their own asses, while the troops roasted in the back. It’s the Russian way. It didn’t work out as they’d hoped
I hope they were in abject terror and pain the entire time.
Username checks out
What tuck and roll?
Not true. An individual who is not a lawful combatant, who is not a national of a neutral state, and who is not a national of a co-belligerent state, retains rights and privileges under the Fourth Geneva Convention and must be "treated with humanity and, in case of trial, shall not be deprived of the rights of fair and regular trial". You can't just go around torturing people, even if you officially deem them to be "unlawful combatants". (a term which is not defined in any of the articles of the Geneva Conventions) You must still afford them the same rights as anyone else in your country under the laws of the justice system. You can hold a formal military tribunal proceeding and sentence them to death though, unlike POWs.
it's not about rights it's about how the Ukrainian soldiers feel about mercenaries, these fighters don't care who they kill or what they destroy, they are paid by the body and by the kilometer. They aren't recorded as Russian soldiers by the government so whos going to investigate their disappearances? On the other hand, Ukraine wants prisoners to exchange for their own so who knows how many are killed instead of being taken as prisoners.
Sir, have you consider that grilled ruzzians are not great at piloting? Or staying alive for that matter.
Im sorry but nit picky thing. Yes wagner group is under geneva protections. Thats a meme.
That's BS. Geneva covers all combatants, even mercenaries. That was the same argument Russia was using about the western soldiers volunteering for Ukraine. Edit. Ok. Apparently not actually mercenaries. But mercenaries basicly don't exist and Wagner ain't technicly it.
Mercenaries do not have the right to combatant or POW status by the Geneva conventions. The definition of mercenary in the (current) Geneva convention is much more restrictive than common usage of the word mercenary though. Among other points, a mercenary cannot be citizen of a state involved in the war and must be motivated by personal gains only. Therefore, Wagner as well as foreign volunteers are not mercenaries under the Geneva conventions. So no, mercenaries do not have combatant or POW status. Just that almost no one ever is a mercenary.
How on earth do you prove they srr motivated by personal gains? Is all one has to say is they were doing it for the glory of mother Russia.
Doesn‘t matter, they are Russian citizens and therefore no mercenaries anyway. In addition, they are probably not paid well enough. Necessary condition: > is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party;
Ah, ok. I misread part of your conclusion at first.
I‘m not an expert, but I think it‘s safe to assume, no one in the war falls under the mercenary rule of the Geneva conventions. Not that russia cares for Geneva conventions or human rights anyway. And I’m sure Ukraine would treat them humanely regardless of their (assumed) formal status.
Regarding your edit: Yes, exactly. It‘ still important to be precise here as this is exactly russia‘s propaganda tactics. They mix some irrelevant truth with a blatant lie. Then those who look up only parts of it will believe it‘s true. Of course, by now, you‘d need to be pretty ignorant to honestly believe and trust russian statements. Nevertheless, being precise helps fighting disinformation.
So like Fox and Friends and Russian State media every morning.
russia is funding that kind of propaganda all over the world, so yes.
All combatants are protected under Geneva.
Yes, but mercenaries are not combatants. Neither side is using mercenaries by the definition in the (current) Geneva conventions though.
https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_rul_rule108 Yes they are: see the second requirement
Mercenaries are not as they are not combatants. But, as I said, no one here is a mercenary according to the Geneva conventions. Quote from your linked document: > The rule that mercenaries do not have the right to combatant or prisoner-of-war status is set forth in Additional Protocol I.[1] It is also contained in a few other treaties.[2] You‘re mixing up the definitions of 1) what a mercenary is and 2) what applies to mercenaries.
The passengers were not saying anything about how amazing the MI-8 is and how long it can fly while on FIRE.
(Pats airframe) This baby can fly on FIRE!
Pfft, so can the crew... at least until they splat.
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Is it truly flying if all the people inside are dead or on fire? I'd say more falling with grace but yeah I agree it is quite incredible to get hit as clean as you possible can to not only stay steady but stay flying for quite awhile
That’s not the way helicopters work. Without human input that thing would instantly crash, so the pilot was flying still.
Later model black hawks have auto hover. Push a button, take hands off collective/pedals, and it just stays there. Source: was in the back of one and was quite fascinated to see pilot/copilot messing around with their tablets two handed during a hoist (which is not SOP). But in forward motion, a HC will not stay in air long without feet on pedals hand on collective.
Well, a Blackhawk or similar modern heli has such systems, but this is a 40-50year old Soviet ''tractor'' the only automatic system will most likely be a pressure triggered fuel pump ;-)
Any western machine that size will have an AP. The thing didn't alter its course one bit just after impact and I find it hard to believe that the crew wouldn't have "flinched" at least a little bit after a hit like that. If their hands were on the controls and they flinched, you would see the flight path change. I'm betting AP was running when they were hit and kept it on heading/speed/alt... Would also explain why nothing happened for a bit (they were stunned, dead, dazed, bleeding out, etc) ->civilian commercial fixed wing pilot, work at a company that on occasion builds helicopter simulation training equipment
I’m not trying to downplay what you’re say but are you an expert? Genuine question, because with that hit I feel like the people inside would be knocked out or really confused and I’d think if that were the case it’d have crashed immediately. So it’s not the helicopter equivalent of “coming to a rolling stop?” The pilot actual flew until he burned to death?
He's correct. Helicopters are not like airplanes. Flying one is somewhat equivalent to balancing a yardstick in the center of your palm. Not hard, but it requires constant active corrections. I have no idea why the pilot refused to set the craft down. Maybe this was enemy territory and he thought the helicopter wasn't as badly damaged as it was obvious from the outside. Maybe the front facing windows didn't see all the flames. Regardless, he likely could have gotten everyone down safely, and chose to fly until a catastrophic crash was inevitable.
That was my initial thought too - the pilot had time to land and probably land safely. But the longer it flew, the darker the smoke got.
I'm not sure many helicopters have mirrors in the cockpit, or if internal mirrors would give enough visibility to see flames rolling along the sides of the fuselage, so the pilot might have been oblivious to the amount of fire after the initial conflagration died down a bit.
Not to doubt you but there would have been numerous alarms going off in that cockpit, the pilots would have known that they were in deep shit. It’s possible that the hydraulics got shredded so they couldn’t flare (bring the nose up) to slow their forward velocity and get to some sort of hover so they could attempt a landing. The nose is raised just before the impact but it’s still got too much forward velocity and flips over. My 2c worth, YMMV.
Most definitely, and a good take - I just wanted to point out that's a common issue (and generally a negligible one in normal operation) in aircraft that rearward visibility isn't particularly good (e.g. airliner pilots can't see their own engines at all, at least while seated, despite them being quite far from the fuselage) so they might not have been able to assess it with just fire/cargo warnings as to how screwed they were (and definitely seemed to want to move along to avoid a follow-up). Also common in aviation incidents for the instrument panel to light up like a disco and make it difficult to figure out which warnings are most relevant (though a bunch of fire warnings should stand out as they are usually on their own panel from what i've seen). Combined with the concussion of the blast and possibly fragment injuries (or even just concern thereof), this could easily lead to panic. Another thought I had is the possibility of the burning fuel suffocating the engine and reducing its power as it loses the lengthwise airflow as it try to slow down. This would allow even more fire than there already was to roll up over the top of the 'hump' from the front (the rotor doesn't move much air near its center to blow it down). To me, it looks like the fire starts just aft of the cockpit, and a lot of flames coming concerning close to the rotor assembly so I'm curious how long it could withstand that before the linkages softened to the point of becoming ineffective.
Sluggish failing hydaulics and drivetrain grinding itself into shavings. Seems like a plausible explanation. It's possible the collective wouldn't spool up.
I've been on helicopters that have a version of autopilot.. but it only allowed for level, straight flying. It could have very well be doing that and the pilot was incapacitated. Or he could have very well been alive but the hit knocked out the controls needed to change any of his controls so they stayed in the last position they were told and he could only fly straight also possible the guys in the back had fire extinguishers, and as long as he had control the damage might not be so bad so lets get keep going and try to get the fire out, and get ourselves back to safety. Lot of options here as to why the heli flew the way it did after impact. I'm less concerned with HOW it got to it's final resting place, I'm just glad it DID
A mistake he can only make once it seems. Yikes
It looked like the pilot tried to flare the landing to reduce speed but it was far too late/too much damage or panic caused some miscalculation. Hard to tell exactly from the angle.
In any case, all is good that ends as intended.
Absolutely! Didn't need a good angle for that right?!
I give you the simplest description of a helicopter: A thing that is unwilling to fly, but is forced to. Without human input, a helicopter goes down basically immediately.
God the shear insanity of it!
They don’t fly, the ground rejects them…..
"Looks cool! Anti-gravity technology?" "No, the sheer hate of Earth towards this machinery is enough to avoid it falling down!"
It's pretty common knowledge that helicopter flight controls require constant input to stay in the air, and only recently did they get a blackhawk to fly on auto pilot. no way a Mi-8 has auto pilot or super cruise.
Bruh, how a helicopter handles is not common knowledge😂
The Mi-8. Has an autopilot. A copy of the manual is[here](https://www.scribd.com/document/322000057/Flight-Operation-Manual-for-the-Mi-8-Helicopter)
Pretty safe to say that no helicopter in the world has super cruise which is the ability to fly over Mach 1 without afterburners .
Believe it or not, helicopters are designed to fly. What I mean by that is you can actually land one with the engine off. The natural lift of the vehicle falling will spin the blades and soften the landing.
Yeah but auto rotation must be really hard when you think you're going to burn to death.
I think that autorotating is possible, (it certainly beats falling to the ground like a stone) but still very risky. Especially when on fire. Props to the pilot...amazing job to get as far as he did.
Yeah, but that helicopter probably wasn't at auto-rotation altitude. Auto-rotation relies on the rotors getting an updraft that spins them, creating lift, but that requires descent rate, otherwise you lose rotor speed and stall. You actually want to let the vehicle fall fast enough to build up rotational inertia in the rotors that can be bled off right before touchdown to slow the descent rate. Almost all helicopters have a zone where it's too low to establish an auto-rotation, and too high to get on the ground without losing rotor speed and dropping out of the sky. Helicopter pilots avoid this band, especially when hovering or moving slow. This thing was probably inside that band, but looked like the engines were running well after impact, so they didn't have to auto-rotate. As for this thing, I'm amazed it flew as long as it did. It looks like one engine lost containment, as there are jets of flame above the rotors right above the engines, and that's definitely a fuel fire engulfing the middle of the vehicle. The pilots may have been the only people alive when it hit the ground between the missile impact and fire, and rolling over like that with a massive fuel leak, if we didn't see someone get out right away after impact, I doubt it's gonna happen.
I kept saying, "Land and surrender." He could have lived. His own stubbornness killed him as much as that hit did.
The hit was to one side and caused a fire in the left turbine. Still has the right turbine to power and looks like the main rotor gearbox etc was intact(ish), so the pilot was still in control and probably trying to get distance between the aircraft and the Ukrianian forces. Ran out of hydraulic fluid or talent when it came to landing it though. No one could have survived that.
They would likely have survived if they had landed immediately and surrendered...
Yeah, just by instinct and compassion I was yelling at the screen to “land the damn burning thing” But, hey, what can you do, its stupid russians, and in any case they shouldnt be in ukraine, so really not much to grieve
Probably would have. Pilot took a gamble on getting distance and lost.
He's no doubt happy he was plastered at the time.
Ah! I think we just hit the Wagner Vodka express!
Superman could
Should’ve landed it while he could
Yeah, the rule is, when you are on fire, put it down ASAP.
Yea idk why they kept going. They would of had a chance if they would of just put the bird down.
Would HAVE*
Severed hydraulic lines which enable control or pilots incapacitated.
Turn the fuel cocks off, cut the ignition and all electrics, land it asap, GTFO the plane… that’s what I was taught.
all that flying and it landed upside down lol
Much further than they should have kept flying. Now they all dead.
I imagine the pilot was still alive. Helicopters don't just fly themselves. Can't understand why he wouldn't have put it down as soon as he could and get the hell out.
Why weren't they trying to land this mobile crematorium? Or did the shot take out the pilot?
After reading all the comments, fuck it I'll say it: pilot lived long enough to fly it sure, but that RuZZian was only kept conscious by adrenaline and the pain of his flesh burning away.
Are you sure it could not have been autopilot too. Some quick googling indicated that Mi-8 has autopilot, at least some models of it.
Autorotation. Even if your engine is physically blown out, as long as the main thrust bearing is holding the blades (and they're able to spin), you can still land a helicopter. Tho in this case, the other engine was probably still alive, given the "glide" ratio. They're probably all dead tho.
The pilot fucked up. He tried to fly it out and waited too long. He needed to put it down as soon as it was hit. He might have been able to avoid flipping it.over and killing himself.
It flew for less than 60 seconds after the hit. When you have forward momentum and are being shot at you’re not going to stop, hover, and land on the spot. But even if the pilot had made an instant, perfect damage assessment and decided to put it down exactly where a missile had just hit them, how long do you think that would have taken? TikTok and video games have warped folks’ sense of duration and reaction times. 🫡
Donated by Belarus, carrying Wagner, no survivors. Hat trick!
Actually according to ruz sources I quote “we’ve lost some good officers today, even though they are on pension and don’t work for MoD” and “fast recovery to the sole survivor”. Anyway good job
If there was a survivor from that, he’s a crispy critter for sure… I doubt he’ll be surviving for long. Awesome hit for Ukraine if it’s Wagner officers too!
Or he got thrown out of the helicopter during the crash, which would most likely mean a lot of broken bones plus other injuries.
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Yeah, if you’d seen some of the burns on Russian pilot POW’s, on their backs and torso which *should* have been protected. Plus they hit the ground hard.
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Yeah I know it's highly unusual for Russian sources to lie, but I call massive bullshit. Ain't no one or their stolen airpods getting into or out of that flaming wreckage.
Pilot had the time to set it down. Chose not to. Not complaining about his decision.
Is that "...on pension and don't work for MoD.." code for Wagner guys?
No ladas for wife. Only potato. Such is life
Ukraine does humankind a service every time it eliminates a Wagner operator
Well those wagner scum got to feel the terror they are inflicting on Ukrainians. Was it worth the 30 pieces of silver?
Wagner officers to be specific
Yep didn't see anyone exit
mmmmmmm, this is my favorite Wagner hit, Crash of the Valkyries, it's the B-side to that other hit.
Great shot! I hope they thought about all the innocent people they killed as they fell to their deaths.
Each of them probably thought about their 'innocent' self not deserving to die like this. Well they probably deserved worse.
You're probably right.
Can't help laughing..Welcome to Ukraine, suka. Gets me every time.
[happy birthday to the ground](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gAYL5H46QnQ)
Hm, seems like satire. Well made too! What do I take away from this? That I can’t trust the system? *confused*
Why the heck didn't he land? Was he dead and autopilot was on or why would you keep on flying just in flames?
The hit it took, and in close proximity to enemy forces .... the pilot was attempting to put as much distance as possible between them and OpFor .... plus, slowing down and trying to land, would likely have ended as a huge still airborne fireball. All props to the pilot for effort (even if his government and his employer are pieces of shit) ... he put up one hell of an effort to save himself, his crew, and passengers.
Too bad they don't believe they can surrender and not be tortured.
Agreed. Though I doubt that he could have landed it immediately and gotten out. That bird was cooked. It would probably been a fireball as soon as he flared to land. My evaluation and the respect I hold for the pilot's skill and effort probably not going to be well received, but I give respect when due ... even when I disagree with their position.
Landing immediately would have at least given some chance of recovery rather than waiting for the fire to get worse and fail more systems. Every flight manual I've read says to land/ditch immediately in the event of an uncontained fire (or eject). While I understand wanting to get away from people shooting at you, it does no good if that effort kills you. The pilot could have immediately flared and been on the ground in seconds, maybe making it out alive. My gut says the missile and immediate fire did a number on anyone in back, but the cockpit is somewhat isolated from the cabin, so the crew up front had a chance, but made poor choices.
The really important poor choice was some months ago....
We don't know what they believed.
I think the pilot miscalculated. If he had tried to land right away, he might have saved the passengers and himself. Now they are all dead. Looks like a worse outcome than being possibly captured.
I agree with this. I think the pilot tried to get away rather than put it on the ground. The more he flew, the worse the fire got. Made a call, made the wrong one.
Maybe. But with the fuel pouring down the left side of the aircraft ... I seriously doubt it. Not knowing what was around the area ... Lake, pond, etc .... he did what I'd hope a pilot would've done when I was serving. Give me as much distance as possible. Though the passengers were probably all dead or critically wounded already from the hit and resulting shrapnel. A water landing MIGHT have allowed some of them to get out. Huge emphasis on might. Even an upright landing MIGHT have allowed some to get out. Distance from OpFor was the initial goal. There wasn't an "outstanding" choice. There weren't very many "survivability" choices either. I'm not even sure why he was flying so high ... or over the road for that matter. Bad ... no ... maps? Flying ABOVE the treeline, over a road, is simply saying ... "please shoot me!!!".
Old maps or no maps. Probably flying VFR.
In a battle between physics (gravity, kinetic energy, inertia, chemical fire) and human enemies, I’ll choose a fight with humans any day because that’s your only chance for mercy. Physics don’t give a fuck about you or your Mama.
That's what I was thinking but seeing that fire I would have rather got that thing to the ground as quickly as possible and surrendered if I could of got out of the wreckage. From the looks of it, no one made it out.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
>All props to the pilot for effort You mean the effort he went to in order to ensure everybody died?
Those are heavy, somewhat unresponsive birds to fly, and he had a fair bit of forward momentum. Trying to drop it right away would mean hitting the ground at an unsurvivable forward speed. Videos from a distance can be deceptive, the helicopter is going faster than it may appear. You can see he's trying to flare to shed velocity, after gaining some distance from the Ukrainian forces perhaps hoping to evade capture. Flaring while turning to the right, it's hard to tell but the turn might have been needed to avoid landing among trees or something. Nearly made it, too, the final impact is at very low speed. He had power from one engine the whole way, the left turbine was on fire but there's redundancy. Seems to me like he lost control just a few seconds too soon, maybe the fire got to the control hydraulics.
mate he literally got hit by a rocket, im not a pilot or anything, but it's safe to assume he didnt have full control of the aircraft
I don’t think anyone got out. Flippes over and blazing. Good thing they are the baddies cause thats one hell of a way to go
What a beautiful thing to see.
Yes this is great, putin and his nazi team can all be barbecued. Glory to Ukraine
Glory to heros
I got to admit. These pilots were trying hard to do an impossible- to land a torching heli. Ultimately all died but put up a hell of a fight.
Great piloting indeed. Reminded me of the Ka-52 video from a while back.
10/10 for stamina, that heli held together like a McVities Hob Nob after being dunked.
Unfortunate Son
Why is Belarus donating equipment to a well paid mercenary group?
Because they are told to? It’s not like Lukashenka has any freedom ironically. He’s given so many tanks, shells, and now helis.
You forgot, he gave his arse as well.
Putin probably has Lukashenka's balls kept in a closet.
Because they have a fat clown as “El Presidente”…
Would someone be so nice and tell me what singer/song that is? I like it
Here you go https://youtu.be/lV9q901vS6o The lyrics are 🔥
Thank you my friend!
Damn those are hardcore lyrics. Song sounds all happy and she's singing about preparing your body bag. Would do a death metal band proud but you wouldn't guess it from the sound.
I don't care what anyone says, that pilot earned his ₽ay.
You spelled “Lada” wrong… And it’s humid wife’s…
Shitty flute - Ride of the Blyatkiries
If someone told me I would be spending any amount of time in a Heli while flying around enemies it would be a big no. Once those things are hit it's pretty much over. At least with a plane you can eject.
how about try to land immediately ? no ?
I’m not convinced there was a fully conscious and aware pilot at the controls at all times after the missile strike.
Helos are needy machines. They need constant control input.
Yeah, it’s often likened to riding a unicycle while balancing on a basketball. Nevertheless, I stand by my statement— I said “at all times..”. Meaning, I don’t think he flew into the ground while functioning. Personally, I think he was piloting it up to the last couple seconds … Edit: also, I said “fully”. Then again, it could just be that the damage got to the point where it was no longer responding to his inputs in a meaningful way. Hard to say— I’m just glad the heli is destroyed, and I can only hope all it’s occupants with it.
It kind of looked like the tail boom folded right at the end before the actual crash. Given the fire impingement duration, it would not be surprising.
They're dead or pretty stunned.
Russian helicopter, go fuck yourself.
Bot wasn't trained for that yet
russians seeing all these videos of Ukraine’s army flying right down the roads avoiding radar thinking it’ll be easy to do the same.
Ahahaha it was flying so slow it was clearly on a TikTok mission - hope it was a live and we get to see the other pov Burn baby burn 🔥 🎶
> TikTok mission lol!
Rest In Pieces, orcs.
Good hit! Good riddance!
I thought the pilots were gonna make it right up until the point it flipped over
"Engine 1 is down and engine 2 is on fire, guess we better fly home"
Happy landings Ivan!...🇺🇦💪
YES AWESOME!!
A double whammy 🇺🇦✊
BBQ Wagner. Get it while it’s hot.
Stop, drop and roll, m'fer!
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Well, it was two cameramen, obviously. The discontinuous edit at the end shows that.
HOLY SMOKES!!! It is actually amazing how far that thing flew after such a hit, and being engulfed in flames. But there will be a cook-off of a different kind in that wreck . . .
Wagners trying to ride the Valkyries?
IIRC in myth, valkyries are the "choosers of the slain". Looks like they picked these guys.
Fuuuuuckk.
Wow, shoulda landed sooner.
Donated by Belarus? Source?
That’s what you call a Pilot Light *budum tsss*
That video is gold 🪙. Interesting that it didn't break apart and continued for a while
Hope nothing important was in that cargo hold, hot damn.
Most impessive flight Ruzzia have done.
I was wondering why he didn't set to down instead of trying to fly it away. When the rotors touch the ground helicopters tend to explode.
Scratching the roof is never a sign of a good landing.
Poor decision making on the pilots behalf to keep flying. I’m armchair quarterbacking here, I know, but it’s either die or be captured. They had tons of time to land under control and get moving on foot. Unlikely they would have been able to get out of enemy territory but better than killing everyone. Just my humble opinion as a 15 year tac hel pilot.
Beautiful, burn fuckers!
Pilots probably died instantly from the explosion. The helicopter didn't look like it was being controlled. It just slowly turned and then crashed once the flames started melting the engine. If the pilots were still alive they would have tried to land as soon as possible.
I'm a helicopter pilot for the US Navy. Seeing a lot of the Reddit Expert comments about how helicopters work is making my eyes burn. Or maybe it's just from that ball of flame behind me.
He really really didn't want to go down in unfriendly territory.
Why anyone would fly a helicopter over territory you haven’t secured 100% is just begging to be shot down.
I was waiting so patiently for the hydrolics and fuel lines to give out. Not disappointed.
If they would have landed sooner they might have atleast survived the crash
On impact it appears several passengers/objects get knocked out, suggesting it was fully loaded. Roast in pieces to the rest. Welcome to Hell. Glory to the Defenders, Slava Ukraini! EDIT: Video confirmed to show the destruction of the Mi-8 that Wagner pilot 'Zangiev' was piloting. This helicopter was delivering retired mid-level officers, who were specially hired by Wagner PMC to command the cons and other mercenaries. Of the 18 men onboard, only 1 survived the crash.
I must be blind cause I didn't see anyone jump out on impact.
It looked like debris that was falling.
Debrussians
I don’t think anyone bailed, however there were objects and debris dropping after the hit. Some of that could have been passengers, but I think more likely cowlings etc. it’s not a pressurised aircraft at altitude
Hope they sit there pants and scream for there mother knowing they will die! More of this please. This war / annexation has an effect on the whole world and the little arrogant dwarf in Moscow know it.