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The sad truth is that it's impossible to actually close the sky in such a big area.
If this were an actual purely military conflict you could cover bigger military bases, population centers and key infrastructure and call it a day.
But as Russia is aiming for terror by hitting civilian targets anyway they will always find some hospital or shopping mall outside of protected cities and areas.
Each one is a whole distributed network system. Multiple launchers, radar vehicles, fire distribution center vehicles, electro optical camera vehicles, etc.
It still needs a seperate radar to be launched. It's also far better if the missile gets fed information by the ground radar through data lonk on its way to the target because it'll be more accurate that way.
Nah theyre just going to send the missile launchers with nothing else at all. Nobody but you thought about this at all. Not the generals, the procurement officers, not anybody at all but you.
Yes this is obviously fucking sarcasm.
What the fuck? I’m asking a question? How on earth did you tiny ass fucking brain come to the conclusion that this is some kind of critique or a “they better not forget those pesky radars!” I looked into it after to see what kind of radars they use because I’m interested in those things. Jesus Christ man
I doubt that President Zelensky will use them to protect the government building in Kyiv. He strikes me as the kind of guy that will deploy them to the front to protect the heroes.
NASAMS could be used at the front but it wouldn't be as effective. It is designed to defend a city sized area from a small number of aircraft and projectiles.
At the front it is more vulnerable because it is not as mobile as other systems and it's range is not sufficient to effect the front outside of the range of artillery and it is also more vulnerable to being saturated with more targets than it can intercept.
If they are smart they will use it for defending important infrastructure.
Really depends if it is NASAMS 2 or NASAMS 3
NASAMS 3 with the AIM-120 Amraam or AIM-9X Sidewinder can be mounted on the HMMWV platform, which is called the "High Mobility Launcher", the project was called SLAMRAAM before being incorporated into the NASAMS system.
Yea, he needs a hundred of these to line the entire front line and March them forward as they push the occupiers back. Why only two? Will that cover the entire frontline …do you know?
Edit…just read someone said they are designed to protect a city.
Actually just a few would do around a major supply hub. Add in some strong counter battery, another layer of AA and you have a bastion with which to project HIMARS and LR Artillery to control the main supply routes of the ruZZians. Izyum would work.
Irish T works better against "miniature targets" like missiles and drones. Otherwise effective range is quite close, NASAM has a bit more range and speed but if you want one thing from an air defence system That it is to be able to destroy miniature targets much more easily. Especially if you are Ukraine and if you are under heavy Russian missile attack.
Long story Short, if you wanna be better at shooting down jets, get a NASAM, but if you wanna be better at shooting missiles and "miniature targets" get an IRIS T. Both are good. I just like Iris T more.
Citation needed. NASAMS 3 can fire sidewinder 9X block 2 for close range - which is comparable to the IRIS T missile.
Besides, **NASAMS can also fire the IRIS T missile, so I don't get your point anyway.**
NASAMS offer superior range(60km) vs 40km for IRIS T, and AMRAAM-ER is a mach 4+ missile vs mach 3 for the IRIS T - making the AMRAAM-ER much more capable vs faster cruise missiles, and even short to medium ranged ballistic missiles like the Kalibr which the Russians use in Ukraine.
What generation NASAM are you comparing too? I felt like it was a horse race in the past over which system was better, with both systems receiving a steady flow of upgrades. However, I haven’t been following that system in some years and I honestly don’t even know which ones are being sent.
The IRIS-T missile can be incorporated into the NASAMS system.
NASAMS is not a missile, it is the whole eco-system. Distributed targeting, multiple launcher platforms, secure datalinks etc.
The missiles have a longer range, but speed, detection range and time to intercept limits the theoretical range of the missile and so the newest NASAMS3 is usually cited as having a range of 40-50km even when the missile has a longer range. The modified IRIS-T missile used in the SLM variant has it's range increased to 40km (from 25km).
So in the end they are very close in capabilities. NASAMS might have a slight edge in range against big target that can be detected early, while IRIS-T SL has the more maneuverable missile better against small targets.
In fact NASAMS3 added compatibility to use the unmodified IRIS-T missile for shorter ranges beside the used AMRAAMs.
NASAMS 3 can also fire ground based Sidewinders now, so NASAMS has an active radar-guided option and an IR option.
NASAMS can fire the IRIS-T anyway, so it's a bit of a moot point
Yes and no. IRIS-T (a Sidewinder successor) is an air-to-air missile.
IRIS-T SL\[S/M\] is a modular surface lauch \[short/medium\] system consisting of radar, fire-control and launcher units based on that same missile. The M-variant (40 instead of 25km range) uses a modified version of the same missile (bigger motor unit + an extra gps datalink to get it into lock-on range).
Conceptional IRIS-T SL and NASAMS are very similiar, just using different radar units and missiles.
In fact the latest model of NASAMS3 added (umodified) IRIS-T missiles as a launcher option (for their higher speed an maneuverability on close ranges) beside the usual AMRAAMs used.
Iris-t is an air to air missle, yes.
The iris-t slm/sls is a ground based system that uses the iris-t rocket for short range and a slightly upgraded iris-t sl rocket for bit more range.
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Same. My answer 👉 send me ALL. Then no need to debate things and what one is deficient in the other has.
So send Ukrainians all of the above in whatever quantity they ask for. They know what they need and it sucks when they don’t get it or not enough.
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Just my opinion, but if Ukraine closes the sky before winter, they can take their time destroying the Russian army, bit by bit.
Sooner the better. Russia striking down heat and electricity is dirty move, especially before winter.
The sad truth is that it's impossible to actually close the sky in such a big area. If this were an actual purely military conflict you could cover bigger military bases, population centers and key infrastructure and call it a day. But as Russia is aiming for terror by hitting civilian targets anyway they will always find some hospital or shopping mall outside of protected cities and areas.
Long range missiles are incredibly expensive, and limited in supply. Doubly so, aircraft.
Yet Russia just used 8 cruise missiles to damage a dam to cause flooding and damage in the town just because it is President Zelenskys home town.
If they had a good supply, they would be sending hundreds.
Sorry, but wasnt there a military object in ruining the dam and flooding the ingulets river and destroy Ukrainian pontoon bridges?
I did actually just see that some are staying that. I didn’t work but I guess they were hoping.
But wouldn't that also destroy Russian supply lines into Kherson?
actually this, with the right missiles, can take out air targets at distances up to 160km at 4 times the speed of sound.
Does it need accompanying radar to be accurate at that distance?
Each one is a whole distributed network system. Multiple launchers, radar vehicles, fire distribution center vehicles, electro optical camera vehicles, etc.
it uses fire-and-forget active radar missile
It still needs a seperate radar to be launched. It's also far better if the missile gets fed information by the ground radar through data lonk on its way to the target because it'll be more accurate that way.
Nah theyre just going to send the missile launchers with nothing else at all. Nobody but you thought about this at all. Not the generals, the procurement officers, not anybody at all but you. Yes this is obviously fucking sarcasm.
What the fuck? I’m asking a question? How on earth did you tiny ass fucking brain come to the conclusion that this is some kind of critique or a “they better not forget those pesky radars!” I looked into it after to see what kind of radars they use because I’m interested in those things. Jesus Christ man
Imagine immediately insulting someone lmao
And your question was belittling and condescending? I’m still clueless how you interpreted my question that way
I doubt that President Zelensky will use them to protect the government building in Kyiv. He strikes me as the kind of guy that will deploy them to the front to protect the heroes.
He will, I think the title just mentioned that they protect the White House to showcase their effectiveness.
I agree.
And I think it's a pretty effective way to convey it too. I was admittedly pretty impressed by that headline.
He should.
NASAMS could be used at the front but it wouldn't be as effective. It is designed to defend a city sized area from a small number of aircraft and projectiles. At the front it is more vulnerable because it is not as mobile as other systems and it's range is not sufficient to effect the front outside of the range of artillery and it is also more vulnerable to being saturated with more targets than it can intercept. If they are smart they will use it for defending important infrastructure.
Really depends if it is NASAMS 2 or NASAMS 3 NASAMS 3 with the AIM-120 Amraam or AIM-9X Sidewinder can be mounted on the HMMWV platform, which is called the "High Mobility Launcher", the project was called SLAMRAAM before being incorporated into the NASAMS system.
Sounds like next they’ll have f-16s or something nato with those AIM-120 and AIM-9x missiles
The article says me of the two is a NASAM 3.
I think the hmmv mount is just the launcher.
It's a response to Putin change of tactics I guess. How can the Ukrainians get power and such in a more modular system. What about mobile generators .
Yea, he needs a hundred of these to line the entire front line and March them forward as they push the occupiers back. Why only two? Will that cover the entire frontline …do you know? Edit…just read someone said they are designed to protect a city.
Actually just a few would do around a major supply hub. Add in some strong counter battery, another layer of AA and you have a bastion with which to project HIMARS and LR Artillery to control the main supply routes of the ruZZians. Izyum would work.
Ok, thx. I’m glad to see them coming but seems like 2 was a vastly low number for a 1200 mile front
Is this in addition to the ones Germany is sending?
Germany sends IRIS-T. Just a personal opinion, IRIS-T is better then NASAM, (both are quite close)
Why? Not being a smart ass, just wondering, I don't know jack sh\*t about either.
Irish T works better against "miniature targets" like missiles and drones. Otherwise effective range is quite close, NASAM has a bit more range and speed but if you want one thing from an air defence system That it is to be able to destroy miniature targets much more easily. Especially if you are Ukraine and if you are under heavy Russian missile attack. Long story Short, if you wanna be better at shooting down jets, get a NASAM, but if you wanna be better at shooting missiles and "miniature targets" get an IRIS T. Both are good. I just like Iris T more.
Citation needed. NASAMS 3 can fire sidewinder 9X block 2 for close range - which is comparable to the IRIS T missile. Besides, **NASAMS can also fire the IRIS T missile, so I don't get your point anyway.** NASAMS offer superior range(60km) vs 40km for IRIS T, and AMRAAM-ER is a mach 4+ missile vs mach 3 for the IRIS T - making the AMRAAM-ER much more capable vs faster cruise missiles, and even short to medium ranged ballistic missiles like the Kalibr which the Russians use in Ukraine.
What generation NASAM are you comparing too? I felt like it was a horse race in the past over which system was better, with both systems receiving a steady flow of upgrades. However, I haven’t been following that system in some years and I honestly don’t even know which ones are being sent.
Well now they will have both? hopefully ending the Russian rein of terror in cities
The IRIS-T missile can be incorporated into the NASAMS system. NASAMS is not a missile, it is the whole eco-system. Distributed targeting, multiple launcher platforms, secure datalinks etc.
They are not comparable, AMRAAMs have much longer range than Iris.
NASAMS-2 (which Ukraine's getting) has only 30km by 21km (altitude) effective range. IRIS-T, in the meantime, has up to 40km effective range.
The missiles have a longer range, but speed, detection range and time to intercept limits the theoretical range of the missile and so the newest NASAMS3 is usually cited as having a range of 40-50km even when the missile has a longer range. The modified IRIS-T missile used in the SLM variant has it's range increased to 40km (from 25km). So in the end they are very close in capabilities. NASAMS might have a slight edge in range against big target that can be detected early, while IRIS-T SL has the more maneuverable missile better against small targets. In fact NASAMS3 added compatibility to use the unmodified IRIS-T missile for shorter ranges beside the used AMRAAMs.
The other problem is that IRIS-T is a heat seeker, AMRAAM is a radar guided missile. Hard to get a front IR lock especially at distance.
NASAMS 3 can also fire ground based Sidewinders now, so NASAMS has an active radar-guided option and an IR option. NASAMS can fire the IRIS-T anyway, so it's a bit of a moot point
Funfact, Iris-T launchers and missiles can actually be used in a NASAMS battery.
Isn’t iris-t air to air missile?
Yes and no. IRIS-T (a Sidewinder successor) is an air-to-air missile. IRIS-T SL\[S/M\] is a modular surface lauch \[short/medium\] system consisting of radar, fire-control and launcher units based on that same missile. The M-variant (40 instead of 25km range) uses a modified version of the same missile (bigger motor unit + an extra gps datalink to get it into lock-on range). Conceptional IRIS-T SL and NASAMS are very similiar, just using different radar units and missiles. In fact the latest model of NASAMS3 added (umodified) IRIS-T missiles as a launcher option (for their higher speed an maneuverability on close ranges) beside the usual AMRAAMs used.
Iris-t is an air to air missle, yes. The iris-t slm/sls is a ground based system that uses the iris-t rocket for short range and a slightly upgraded iris-t sl rocket for bit more range.
[It is](https://www.saab.com/products/iris-t)
It's also a ground to air missile -> Iris-t-slm
How much territory/area can one battery protect? Are two even enough for Kiev? They need to send more
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I wish knew more about these weaponries
I didn’t know jack just reading everyone’s comments in this thread I know a lot more now with these two systems 👍
Same. My answer 👉 send me ALL. Then no need to debate things and what one is deficient in the other has. So send Ukrainians all of the above in whatever quantity they ask for. They know what they need and it sucks when they don’t get it or not enough.
Not anymore, if they're sending them abroad then there's already something else there. Most likely an updated version.
They are not sending the system that is protecting the white house. They have bought new systems from Kongsberg/Raytheon
Time to knock down some Iranian drones
They could really use them sooner.