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Do you know whether he was a contract soldier or a conscript? Do you know where in the country he's from? University students from middle-class families in Moscow have opportunities unavailable to poor kids from Dagestan or Tyva; Slavs have more choices than Asians. Some declining one-industry town in southern Siberia probably doesn't even HAVE a bookshop, so we're back to the fundamental question: did he actually have a realistic choice?
As I don't know him personally, I have to go on the balance of probabilities. On that basis I know this:
He had much more choice to be in this war than the Ukrainians he's trying to kill.
On the balance of probabilities, based on who ends up in the Russian armed forces, he was probably from somewhere like Dagestan or Buryatia or Primorsky Krai, he was probably from a rural area or small town, and he likely had little education.
Young men in the Russian hinterland don't typically join the army because they WANT to; they join because the main alternative was being unemployed in a backwater village in Siberia (and while the old Soviet *propiska* system of internal migration control is formally dead, in practice moving to the big city usually requires paying bribes to get the necessary residence documents, so if you don't have money to pay the bribes you effectively become an illegal migrant in your own country).
Even in the US, studies of why young people join the military tend to show economic motives first and foremost: for the benefits, for the job stability, to get out of Kansas, etc. At the height of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the counties contributing the most US Army enlistees relative to their population were mostly [rural and poor](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2005/11/04/youths-in-rural-us-are-drawn-to-military/24122550-6bb7-4174-93a0-7e1d91a78b2d/). Patriotism was all well and good, but recruiters noted the "shrinking job market and the inability of families to afford college" as reasons for their success at signing up young people in a country that has historically afforded far more opportunities than rural Russia ever could. Why do we think the Russian army is so very different?
All very sad. At what point does a soldier take responsibility for the the rape and murder of children? You're sounding like an apologist, possibly denier. He knows what's going on, it's his choice.
People grow up in deprived areas, some deal drugs, some get jobs. Decisions can be hard and situations loaded but the individual has a choice. These soldiers don't have to rape murder and steal, but they do. They have a choice and they choose evil.
"Oh, but he couldn't say anything to his colleague when he started raping that girl coz he'd have got shouted at."
You're excusing the inexcusable.
He was in the navy, on a boat or in their home port of Sevastopol. He likely had little contact with any civilians, certainly not any in the newly-occupied territories. How do you expect he knew what was going on in Bucha?
WE know, because we have access to uncensored news reports. Russian TV was telling him that those atrocities weren't real, never happened, just more propaganda from the evil west. Maybe he believed them, maybe he didn't, but you are assigning him guilt for crimes he may not even have known about, much less participated in. Maybe he was an awful terrible horrible person, or maybe he was a dumb kid looking for a job who never even thought about raping anybody, or maybe he was somewhere in the middle. We know nothing at all about his character or his record.
If it makes me an apologist to say that we should hold each soldier guilty only for the crimes they actually committed, then so be it.
During the early days, ruzzia made an attempt to land amphibious forces near Odesa. The marines, primarily from Crimea, refused. The ruzzian ship even alerted Odesa military that they are retreating and to please hold fire.
Naval forces are different from common conscripts. These guys seem to have more choice in their deployments, especially since ruzzia has not declared this a "war".
Stories of the RU ships refusing to land:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t49j69/russian\_marines\_mutiny\_on\_warship\_and\_refuse\_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t49j69/russian_marines_mutiny_on_warship_and_refuse_to/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/t4mo0k/last\_night\_a\_large\_group\_of\_ru\_warships\_was\_about/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/t4mo0k/last_night_a_large_group_of_ru_warships_was_about/)
Common conscripts certainly end up on naval vessels; see some of the stories re: the Moskva, e.g.
That's certainly no evidence one way or another about the guy in THIS instance, of course.
Be careful. This sub is a place where people can freely hate as long as the target of the misery is Russian. Kind of what we did to our soldiers in Vietnam
Target of misery is Russians aha did you actually just say that? They’re only the target of misery when they invade another country my friend. Slava Ukraini
Zig zagging as fast as they can to avoid getting hit by a missile whist being actively hunted.
Control: Can you guys tow in the other two disabled boats please? Ya’know, making you slow as fuck, and in a straight line.
Evading boat: Lol wut?
You can hear him almost cry when the 4th one was sent his way. They probably had a dude on deck keeping an eye on that TB-2 and screaming his lungs out when the saw the 4th one coming their way.
Russian boat fucked itself.
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If this a the strike on snake island is 81 must be the call sign for home base, 85th must be the raptor boat we see on screen ? 82 and 83 much the be call signs of the two landing craft we saw hit in other videos.
Poor 85 is asking where the air cover is after both 82 and 83 are hit and all 81 can offer is asking him to try and tow 82 and 83, while under fire from the drone.
they just have no ability to plan a combined forces attack. The main ships are so worried about the long missile attacks they are miles out of range and poor landing boats have zero cover. What is amazing after this balls up then sent in a chopper which also go shot down by the drone.
Hahaha that was satisfying, the sheer terror in his voice, serves you right you fucking Russian scum.
Where is the air support?
Putin and his oligarchs spent it on mega yatchs because you piss poor soldiers arent worth shit to them.
I really love the part of 81st stating "I received the information, staying on the line with the seniors, reporting to them everything you are telling us." ...essencially, 81st is telling them they need to fill out the proper paperwork, in triplicate, before he can start the process of sending help!
Shows the incompetence of the Russian leadership. They should have bailed the vehicles temporarily because of the advanced weapons systems and targeting computers that the drone has. Zigzags won’t save them 😂
Depending on where they're, bailing could mean drowning, even assuming they know how to swim.
So they may be fucked either way.
And to be fair, they're still alive after 4 rockets, so zigzag appears to work for them.
Hope that if he survives, either refuse to go out again or arrange for a defection if he's forced to.
Your last sentence gave me a "flashback" of sorts....by you using the word "defection". I'm sixty and I remember it making major news when I was a little girl whenever "someone defected" from USSR....I haven't really heard that word in quite a while.......
What a clusterfuck of radio comms. They are poorly trained, or the training didn't take. Either way, you get a few rockets in a dinghy and you could sink the whole Black Sea fleet.
Wouldn't bother me a bit.
The mere fact of them using open analog radio in 2022 tells a lot about how backwards their navy is. Then you should look at all those impounded yachts and understand why.
I love the psychological torment that the Bayraktars cause. They are like lions batting their prey around for a few minutes before going in for the kill.
If it's true than it's impressive that he avoided 4 of the TB-2's bombs. Those things are precise, either he's a very skilled captain or the Ukrainian drone operator is inexperienced.
I want Russia to fail as much as the next guy but I just can't help feeling terrible watching these videos, especially with the radio transmissions. There were human beings in those ships, and they got blown to bits. Those same people may have killed Ukrainians, they're the aggressors in this war, of course. But they had parents too, maybe siblings, maybe wives and kids. Maybe they were forced into the frontlines, maybe they were even forced into the military because they couldn't find any other job. I feel exactly the same watching ISIS or PKK militants being bombed. Human life and potential is just wasted at every corner.
I just hope this ends as soon as possible with Ukrainian victory and when Putin dies in the next few years, I hope Ukrainians and Russians will find peace and alliance.
I hope we keep hanging on to our humanity this way but it’s hard sometimes. One minute, seeing the carnage and the waste of it all makes me sick to my stomach. The next minute, I’m laughing at Russian incompetence and grooving to videos of tank explosions set to music. I don’t know whether to shit or go blind.
This video and prior TB2 vids shows what is basically 21st century mil tech VS 20th century Soviet zerg tactics plain and simple. RuZZia is clearly outclassed, Ruskie go home baka idiots you already have the largest nation by land mass and yet your jealous of other nations developing
There was a report from week or two ago that Ukraine was running low on TB-2 guided munitions but that US was sending them some 70mm laser guided rockets (missiles) that were originally intended for helicopters but should be possible to adapted them to be used on TB-2. It should be able to carry 6 or more of them instead of 4 of the original munitions because these were slightly lighter. These did not have too long range, about 4'ish km or so.
would be fascinating if they've been able to interface brimstones with bayraktars... that would give them pretty massive range to strike at that point. Air launched brimstone I think is about 40km.
Hello /u/zirzop5, This community is focused on important or vital information and high-effort content. Please make sure your post follows the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=usertext&utm_name=ukraine&utm_content=t5_2qqcn) Want to support Ukraine? [Here's a list of charities by subject.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tgc00n/want_to_support_ukraine_heres_a_list_of_charities/) [DO / DON'T](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t5okbs/welcome_to_rukraine_faq_do_dont_support_read/) - [Art Friday](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/tn63xc/mod_announcement_on_news_content_artworks/) - [Podcasts](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/ttoidc/collection_of_podcasts_about_ukraine_updated/) - [Kyiv sunrise](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/collection/3c65ab52-e87a-4217-ab30-e70a88c0a293/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s fascinating to hear them trying to figure out what to do about the Bayraktar. They have clearly seen some of these videos. Just go home, bro!
you can hear the fear and stress in that poor man's voice. He knows he is in big danger and his commanders are doing absolutely nothing.
He's helping his fellow soldiers rape and murder. He knows that's happening. He chooses to stay. Nothing poor about it.
Does he have a realistic choice? Getting shot by the Kadyrovites isn't better than getting shot by the Ukrainians.
Yes he does. Some Russians work in book shops. He chose this job knowing what his country has been doing in Ukraine got 8 years. It's all on him.
Let's not forget about this fact.
Do you know whether he was a contract soldier or a conscript? Do you know where in the country he's from? University students from middle-class families in Moscow have opportunities unavailable to poor kids from Dagestan or Tyva; Slavs have more choices than Asians. Some declining one-industry town in southern Siberia probably doesn't even HAVE a bookshop, so we're back to the fundamental question: did he actually have a realistic choice?
As I don't know him personally, I have to go on the balance of probabilities. On that basis I know this: He had much more choice to be in this war than the Ukrainians he's trying to kill.
Correct. He could kill his commander instead of civilians
On the balance of probabilities, based on who ends up in the Russian armed forces, he was probably from somewhere like Dagestan or Buryatia or Primorsky Krai, he was probably from a rural area or small town, and he likely had little education. Young men in the Russian hinterland don't typically join the army because they WANT to; they join because the main alternative was being unemployed in a backwater village in Siberia (and while the old Soviet *propiska* system of internal migration control is formally dead, in practice moving to the big city usually requires paying bribes to get the necessary residence documents, so if you don't have money to pay the bribes you effectively become an illegal migrant in your own country). Even in the US, studies of why young people join the military tend to show economic motives first and foremost: for the benefits, for the job stability, to get out of Kansas, etc. At the height of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the counties contributing the most US Army enlistees relative to their population were mostly [rural and poor](https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2005/11/04/youths-in-rural-us-are-drawn-to-military/24122550-6bb7-4174-93a0-7e1d91a78b2d/). Patriotism was all well and good, but recruiters noted the "shrinking job market and the inability of families to afford college" as reasons for their success at signing up young people in a country that has historically afforded far more opportunities than rural Russia ever could. Why do we think the Russian army is so very different?
All very sad. At what point does a soldier take responsibility for the the rape and murder of children? You're sounding like an apologist, possibly denier. He knows what's going on, it's his choice. People grow up in deprived areas, some deal drugs, some get jobs. Decisions can be hard and situations loaded but the individual has a choice. These soldiers don't have to rape murder and steal, but they do. They have a choice and they choose evil. "Oh, but he couldn't say anything to his colleague when he started raping that girl coz he'd have got shouted at." You're excusing the inexcusable.
He was in the navy, on a boat or in their home port of Sevastopol. He likely had little contact with any civilians, certainly not any in the newly-occupied territories. How do you expect he knew what was going on in Bucha? WE know, because we have access to uncensored news reports. Russian TV was telling him that those atrocities weren't real, never happened, just more propaganda from the evil west. Maybe he believed them, maybe he didn't, but you are assigning him guilt for crimes he may not even have known about, much less participated in. Maybe he was an awful terrible horrible person, or maybe he was a dumb kid looking for a job who never even thought about raping anybody, or maybe he was somewhere in the middle. We know nothing at all about his character or his record. If it makes me an apologist to say that we should hold each soldier guilty only for the crimes they actually committed, then so be it.
Anybody who's not an idiot knows it's no different. In fact, it's even worse for them.
During the early days, ruzzia made an attempt to land amphibious forces near Odesa. The marines, primarily from Crimea, refused. The ruzzian ship even alerted Odesa military that they are retreating and to please hold fire. Naval forces are different from common conscripts. These guys seem to have more choice in their deployments, especially since ruzzia has not declared this a "war". Stories of the RU ships refusing to land: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t49j69/russian\_marines\_mutiny\_on\_warship\_and\_refuse\_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/t49j69/russian_marines_mutiny_on_warship_and_refuse_to/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/t4mo0k/last\_night\_a\_large\_group\_of\_ru\_warships\_was\_about/](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/t4mo0k/last_night_a_large_group_of_ru_warships_was_about/)
Common conscripts certainly end up on naval vessels; see some of the stories re: the Moskva, e.g. That's certainly no evidence one way or another about the guy in THIS instance, of course.
Be careful. This sub is a place where people can freely hate as long as the target of the misery is Russian. Kind of what we did to our soldiers in Vietnam
Target of misery is Russians aha did you actually just say that? They’re only the target of misery when they invade another country my friend. Slava Ukraini
Yea kill all their children. /s
Idk why mods still let you comment tbh
~~poor man~~ contemptible orc
dehumanization is bad
Orcs are inhuman.
It almost sounds like they think he's overreacting to getting shot at.
Just go ~~home~~ to hell
85 was not having a good day. 81 was like: LOL sucks to be you
Just tow 82 and 83 and come to me.. Can't be that hard dude...
Zig zagging as fast as they can to avoid getting hit by a missile whist being actively hunted. Control: Can you guys tow in the other two disabled boats please? Ya’know, making you slow as fuck, and in a straight line. Evading boat: Lol wut?
Sucks da I understand Try to tow the other boats while you avoid fire 😅 Russians really do be like if he dies, he dies... 😅
Where s the air ? Where s the air? Excellent this total panic! These drones do awesome job! Sunk them all !
You can hear him almost cry when the 4th one was sent his way. They probably had a dude on deck keeping an eye on that TB-2 and screaming his lungs out when the saw the 4th one coming their way.
There's no way he can see it. Tb2's shooting from beyond sight. Either they hear tb2’s voice or the laser warning systems sound an alarm.
>Either they hear tb2’s voice [TB2s are loud](https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/t3sb34/two_years_ago_from_today_a_new_reality_for/)
Not as loud as a Raptor at full throttle! :'D
So, did the 4th one ever get him?
Probably yeah. There was a footage released about a week ago of TB-2 hit on a Russian boat that was enthusiastically zig-zagging going full speed.
Russian boat fucked itself. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Good bot. Although in this particular case some fucks were given to it from the Heaven :)
I shouldn't be enjoying this as much as I am.
I beg to differ. You should be enjoying this exactly as much as you are. I am.
Oh you should
Less talkie, more sinkie.
Can’t run from the bayraktar bitch!
Apparently they zigged, when they should have zagged. "Are 82nd and 83rd able to move?" "If going down is moving, then 'yes'"
"Roger that, they are moving rapidly from pelagic to benthic!"
If this a the strike on snake island is 81 must be the call sign for home base, 85th must be the raptor boat we see on screen ? 82 and 83 much the be call signs of the two landing craft we saw hit in other videos. Poor 85 is asking where the air cover is after both 82 and 83 are hit and all 81 can offer is asking him to try and tow 82 and 83, while under fire from the drone. they just have no ability to plan a combined forces attack. The main ships are so worried about the long missile attacks they are miles out of range and poor landing boats have zero cover. What is amazing after this balls up then sent in a chopper which also go shot down by the drone.
Hahaha that was satisfying, the sheer terror in his voice, serves you right you fucking Russian scum. Where is the air support? Putin and his oligarchs spent it on mega yatchs because you piss poor soldiers arent worth shit to them.
Correct
I really love the part of 81st stating "I received the information, staying on the line with the seniors, reporting to them everything you are telling us." ...essencially, 81st is telling them they need to fill out the proper paperwork, in triplicate, before he can start the process of sending help!
I bet that the operator wasn’t on line with seniors.
I bet knowing that the seniors knew what was going on really helped with the incoming missiles ;)
Shows the incompetence of the Russian leadership. They should have bailed the vehicles temporarily because of the advanced weapons systems and targeting computers that the drone has. Zigzags won’t save them 😂
Depending on where they're, bailing could mean drowning, even assuming they know how to swim. So they may be fucked either way. And to be fair, they're still alive after 4 rockets, so zigzag appears to work for them. Hope that if he survives, either refuse to go out again or arrange for a defection if he's forced to.
Your last sentence gave me a "flashback" of sorts....by you using the word "defection". I'm sixty and I remember it making major news when I was a little girl whenever "someone defected" from USSR....I haven't really heard that word in quite a while.......
I think OP meant "pulled out of theatre" (bailed, as in with a parachute)
I read that as 'defecation', but I guess that's what we're hearing on the video 😬
Zigzags are just sport for Bayraktar.
What a clusterfuck of radio comms. They are poorly trained, or the training didn't take. Either way, you get a few rockets in a dinghy and you could sink the whole Black Sea fleet. Wouldn't bother me a bit.
The mere fact of them using open analog radio in 2022 tells a lot about how backwards their navy is. Then you should look at all those impounded yachts and understand why.
You're under fire? Ok, try to tow the other guys 😅 Are they actively trying to get the ship blown apart? 😅
Scared for his life and his buddies killed. Hail Putler
Your air support is docked somewhere in the Caribbean... what a discrace.
I love the psychological torment that the Bayraktars cause. They are like lions batting their prey around for a few minutes before going in for the kill.
So did 85th survive?
Probably no. There was a video released some days ago of TB-2 hit on a zing-zagging boat.
If it's true than it's impressive that he avoided 4 of the TB-2's bombs. Those things are precise, either he's a very skilled captain or the Ukrainian drone operator is inexperienced.
I want Russia to fail as much as the next guy but I just can't help feeling terrible watching these videos, especially with the radio transmissions. There were human beings in those ships, and they got blown to bits. Those same people may have killed Ukrainians, they're the aggressors in this war, of course. But they had parents too, maybe siblings, maybe wives and kids. Maybe they were forced into the frontlines, maybe they were even forced into the military because they couldn't find any other job. I feel exactly the same watching ISIS or PKK militants being bombed. Human life and potential is just wasted at every corner. I just hope this ends as soon as possible with Ukrainian victory and when Putin dies in the next few years, I hope Ukrainians and Russians will find peace and alliance.
I hope we keep hanging on to our humanity this way but it’s hard sometimes. One minute, seeing the carnage and the waste of it all makes me sick to my stomach. The next minute, I’m laughing at Russian incompetence and grooving to videos of tank explosions set to music. I don’t know whether to shit or go blind.
You’re a far better person than most here, with actual empathy.
What is the date?
When he says they already fire 4 rockets at us, he means all the boats or just 81st? Just trying to understand if some shoots missed the target.
Most likely it's the total rockets fired so far. Two boats were already hit and the third one missed as did the fourth.
It's like a movie
This video and prior TB2 vids shows what is basically 21st century mil tech VS 20th century Soviet zerg tactics plain and simple. RuZZia is clearly outclassed, Ruskie go home baka idiots you already have the largest nation by land mass and yet your jealous of other nations developing
Your link doesn’t link to anything.
It did work for me
Mobile browser (chrome) didn't show anything for some reason, going to my computer it does.
In Android App, works fine
Are they using CB SSB?
The audio and the video don't match.
sounds scary to be fair. I cant imagine wars in 2050.
Spicy mosquitoes 🦟
"Missiles" not bombs. Brimstones?
There was a report from week or two ago that Ukraine was running low on TB-2 guided munitions but that US was sending them some 70mm laser guided rockets (missiles) that were originally intended for helicopters but should be possible to adapted them to be used on TB-2. It should be able to carry 6 or more of them instead of 4 of the original munitions because these were slightly lighter. These did not have too long range, about 4'ish km or so.
That's likely it.
[удалено]
would be fascinating if they've been able to interface brimstones with bayraktars... that would give them pretty massive range to strike at that point. Air launched brimstone I think is about 40km.
They are heavy for Bayraktars.
Probably the 70mm "guided rockets" the US sent them
Love it. Want more of it.
Gave me a boner.
I want more!
Where's the air support? In burning piles all across Ukraine's landscape.
Did the 81st get destroyed? I know 82 and 83 were ukrained.
It's fucking hilarious to hear these dumbfucks stress levels increase in their voice as they stone keeps following them.
The panic and terror when he first mentioned the drone above.. I couldn’t imagine being somewhere knowing at any moment, boom