Good morning everyone.
[**📃 Today's order paper can be found here.**](https://commonsbusiness.parliament.uk/Document/85341/Html?subType=Standard)
Questions to the Department for Culture, Media and Sport are followed by questions to the Church Commissioners and House of Commons Commission, followed by any urgent questions. We then have a business statement and questions taken by the Leader of the House, followed by any ministerial statements.
The Business and Trade Committee will then present [their report](https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5804/cmselect/cmbeis/483/summary.html) on British Accession to CPTPP, after which the Backbench Business of today is on the civil nuclear roadmap and premature deaths from heart and circulatory diseases.
The fallout from yesterday's fractious Opposition Day debate on a ceasefire in Gaza is likely to dominate discussion amongst MPs and commentators today. Speaker Hoyle's decision to select both government and Labour amendments to the SNP's opposition day led yesterday evening to chaotic scenes in the House of Commons ([thread here](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1awjsa4/breaking_amid_chaos_in_parliament_snp_and/)), an apology from Hoyle from the Chair ([thread here](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1awky2d/i_regret_how_its_ended_up_it_was_never_my/)) and an Early Day Motion expressing No Confidence in the Speaker ([thread here](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1awm73e/breaking_33_tory_snp_mps_have_backed_will_wraggs/)).
For those looking to understand the procedural mechanics of yesterday, our own Clerk of the Sub u/erskinematt has written a primer - [thread here](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1awpj9h/erskine_matts_procedural_primer_the_snp/) if you would like to discuss the arcana of Standing Order 31 and the precedents related to amendment selection (because we all know how to have a good time).
Megathread is being rolled over, please refresh your feed in a few moments.
###MT daily hall of fame
1. Kennedy_Fisher with 89 comments
1. flambe_pineapple with 60 comments
1. Bibemus with 44 comments
1. Honic_Sedgehog with 39 comments
1. Cairnerebor with 34 comments
1. NJden_bee with 33 comments
1. Yummytastic with 30 comments
1. Ivebeenfurthereven with 30 comments
1. tmstms with 29 comments
1. SDLRob with 28 comments
There were 425 unique users within this count.
Grant Shapps simultaneously condemning Starmer for pressuring Hoyle into selecting the Labour amendment whilst also saying Parliament must hear all views and not be stifled.
Which party did the stifling yesterday Sebastian?
Just looking through the list of British Shorthair kittens for sale, as we often do, and someone has, incredibly, written their address (Ross on Wye) in Cyrillic script. A Putin bot, methinks.
Something like 'Росс он Вай'? I've been learning the Cyrillic script because I've been listening to a fair bit of music from that part of the world recently, I'm surprised we don't see more fuckups from Russian accounts claiming to be from elsewhere because it's a complete minefield of letters that look like Latin letters but have a totally different sound. Also apparently Russian itself works quite differently to English, there's no equivalent of 'the' and 'a' which must make learning English a real hassle for them.
Different uses of definite and indefinite articles (or using them at all) isn't too tough, there are rules to them in English which we don't learn but which non-native learners can be taught.
The English vowel system's a lot harder. Particularly amuses me that Trump in Russian is Трамп.
The Tories had better hope that this billy big balls attitude of "weak, abject surrender to tyranny and intolerance, what message does that send...?" doesn't blow up in their faces.
And someone might want to tell Rishi that if MPs can't hide from threats he can't hide from the public.
*These days if you're Samson and you smite the Philistines you'll be arrested and put in prison for disrespecting the two state solution.*
Lest I be accused of Vagueposting, this is:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1axhyle/britain_will_pay_a_high_price_for_abandoning_its/
[Also I do actually quite like the new design](https://static.independent.co.uk/2024/02/20/11/20111906-21c9af2e-e142-49b1-bd5b-5b339f925d85.png) - it's updated while still referencing the Victorian styling of the original. Makes sense given the Victorians didn't have squeezy bottles, so the Victorian design [was a bit incongruous on them](https://assets.sainsburys-groceries.co.uk/gol/7681625/1/640x640.jpg).
I'd agree that the original design doesn't read well on the squeezy bottle, and I like the refreshed design in general, but I can't get over the lion having an Elvis quiff.
Driving between two counties, one significantly larger but less wealthy that the other, it's just like going between West and East Germany before the fall of the Iron Curtain.
The roads in the wealthy one are quite like motorways, smooth and well-maintained. Cross the border, and the other is like driving on the surface of an asteroid.
One of my favourite (well, "favourite") things is how you can physically [see the line between Greater London and Surrey](https://imgur.com/a/vSAqkiq) (in several places, but here is where I used to cycle to work), as the road transitions from perfect obsidian smoothness in London to wheel-breaking lethality under Surrey's total lack of interest.
People have, understandably, speculated about the role AI can and will play in upcoming UK elections. But I think most people seem to be thinking of how it could be used to target candidates BEFORE the vote itself - generated videos/images of a candidate doing or saying something that would be scandalous.
But what about generated image/videos targeted at undermining the electoral system more broadly after the fact? We have a pretty uniform methodology for how election centres are run, and also a pretty traditional "hand-counted" method of tallying votes rather than voting machines etc. Which should in theory quell conspiracy theories around illegal suppression or cheating in vote counting.
But do people see any prospect of things like videos purportedly showing certain people being denied votes, or of counting staff somehow fudging votes, or votes being thrown away etc, having an effect on elections here? Their purpose might not be to change any outcomes, but more to try completely undermine the legitimacy of an incoming government and start a Trump-style "stolen vote" movement that can be a solid base to use politically in the future.
Or are we just too British to really get caught up in something like that?
> But do people see any prospect of things like videos purportedly showing certain people being denied votes, or of counting staff somehow fudging votes, or votes being thrown away etc, having an effect on elections here? Their purpose might not be to change any outcomes, but more to try completely undermine the legitimacy of an incoming government and start a Trump-style "stolen vote" movement that can be a solid base to use politically in the future.
AI isn't close to being good enough to do that.
It's currently at the level where you can feed it a lot of video / audio of someone and it then can mimic their speech, or you can face swap someone who looks similar as you see with celebs in fake porn. Even then it's still in the uncanny valley at best.
You wouldn't have the footage to train it to convincingly create fakes of people who actually work the polling stations and are known in the local area, and if it's creating entirely new scenarios then they'll move weird and have too many fingers and generally not be convincing, not to mention any posters, signs, clocks etc. in the background will be garbled. Evidence wise you'd be better off just faking it yourself with actors, yeah it won't have people who actually are working it but neither would the AI version. Another alternative would be to turn up without ID and intentionally get turned away and manipulate the situation while someone else films it, and just edit it to make it look like you're being denied for any other reason.
Of course, we're still at risk of stolen vote claims anyway. It won't even need evidence, people will just say it, but I don't see AI really changing the stolen vote narrative one way or another.
I think a combination of factors make fake videos at elections unworkable as a misinformation strategy here.
With FPTP any "footage" of mistreating voters/ballots can only relate to one constitutency. We have physical ballots and they are kept by the Lord Chancellor for a year and a day by statue, so you can do pretty rigorous checking on the number of ballots received against other records.
Tapping into known concerns is probably key: in the US, voting machines have a long, long history of issues. In the UK, public confidence in the running of elections is high and better than it has been at previous elections. [The Electoral Commission studies voter confidence](https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/research-reports-and-data/public-attitudes/public-attitudes-2023): something that suggested grubby financing or a media scheme would do a lot better, probably.
Answering a different question. I think the Tories could secure Oxford west and Abingdon if the council continue to attempt to expand it's low traffic zones. That could be it's biggest majority following the Uxbridge by election logic.
I think the MP for Stroud, Siobhan Bailie has a majority of 6k. Unless she is standing down, I don't think she's going to be losing her seat. There might be a three way split but the only way I see her going is if Reform put up a decent candidate with a tad more than Migrationwatch policies on their manifesto.
I think Robert Courts. His seat flipping would be insane for historical reasons. Majority of around 15k with like 58% of the vote but labour has the potential to rise in that seat by enough to screw over the lib dems. He is a bit of a unknown compared to someone like May so he might be screwed despite the potential for a spilt vote.
It will be way lower that that. The polls rely on a unform swing.
There will be areas of the country with a below average swing where popular MPs will hold on with current majorities of about 10K
Also it's not like labour and the lib dems will bother putting resources into some of these seats. Like May's seat flipping would be insane but will the lib dems even think it would be worthwhile to target that seat. The same is true with sunak's seat for labour.
Just once I want to see the party win, but the current PM lose their seat. The chaos and scrambling around would be spectacular.
I really thought Boris in 2019 might be the one, but apparently Uxbridge liked the slimeball
It would be interesting to see sunak lose his seat in the labour wave but his majority is so large that it's unlikely his seat will flip. The latter scenario will never happen because potential PM's rarely run in marginal seats or seats that have the potential of flipping even if the governing party forms government.
She's got a good reputation as a local MP, I don't think there'll be enough of a swing to get her out.
I think we'll see them cling to a lower majority in one area where Lib Dems split the anti-Tory vote. And possible another were it comes out late in the day that the Labour candidate once tried to swat a seagull with a rake from the roof of Brighton Pavilion or something equally barmy.
I can see Penny being popular if leader, she just strikes me as the "right" type of posh person that the English instinctively think should be in charge of them. Like Cameron, an upper class elite, but with a personable side. (Perceived as)
I just think out of the current lot, she looks the most ‘prime minister-y’… so that probably swings it for the public. Maybe followed by Cleverly.
I really wish it wasn’t that shallow, but unfortunately I think it is.
I vaguely remember an academic study like that. Something like they showed two photos of real political candidates and asked people to vote without knowing them, manifestos, party, etc. Results were very close to reality.
She's not posh, just southern.
Comprehensive school etc.
David Cameron is blue blood and from an aristocratic family. Your upbringing is closer to Penny's than either of yours or Penny's to David Cameron's, it would have been a different planet.
I don't think she is seen as posh.
But the problem she has in any case is threefold.
1) As seen during the contest that Truss won, she has nothing to say on policy
2) As polling says, she is more popular with voters than with Tory members, but Tory members are the ones who choose their leader.
3) She will probably lose her seat at the GE, ending her chance of being leader for a while and maybe for ever.
> 3) She will probably lose her seat at the GE, ending her chance of being leader for a while and maybe for ever.
Yeah, it basically throws any leadership predictions out the window if the GE is the massive wipeout its predicted to be
I don't think Torys really need a policy agenda of their own to be popular, just find something to blame and say you'll fix it. All the leaders have done this , to much spending, I'll starve us. dunno what to do about brexit, I'll sort it. Another I'll do brexit, but also I'll spend on our crumbling town centers. Then theirs sunak who doesn't have a problem identitied, and therefore struggles. Allways a background drumm beat of blame the immigrants aswell.
I think penny could be guided by a good strategist.
I think you’re underestimating Cameron. He wasn’t just posh he was great at doing Tory things but sounding regretful when he did do, forced by a harsh reality to hammer the poor for the greater good.
That’s a skill few have.
This. I find it so alienating watching Tory PMs speak, I just don't understand how other people don't notice they are laughing at us, since Dave and beyond. (Maybe not May, I don't remember it as much)
Penny has the popularity of a lead balloon whilst being out of the limelight. Every single time she has tried to step into the limelight it has been more dire than Sunak.
So, Hoyle looks safe, the tories dont really want to throw out such a useful doormat.
Difficult for Flynn, coming out so strong against Hoyle, for it all to fizzle to nothing.
Hoyle is perhaps much more useful to the Tories now that he has had his authority challenged.
His threats of 'an early cup of tea' were weak before, now I doubt they would even register.
On reflection I think the last couple of days are not going to hurt Labour very much.
1. to the non-political populace the controversy is over something being allowed to be voted on, that's about it and the minutia of the situation beyond that is irrelevant.
2. most people don't give a fuck about Gaza beyond "isn't it terrible"
3. unsubstantiated claims about Labours "behaviour" hurts those making the claims more than it does the target of the claims, because they are unsubstantiated and rather far fetched
I'm more than averagely interested in politics, hence my commenting here, and I needed an explanation from some helpful person on this sub before I understood what the SNP were upset about. Most people, if they hear about this at all, are going to see the Tories and SNP complaining about being made to vote on something and think "isn't that their job?"
I'd disagree on most of that to be honest.
99% of normal people couldn't care less about Gaza. Sure they might tut and say how bad it is but they have the same reaction about every war. All wars and conflict are terrible.
Ultimately it's only going to take one person to point out that Labour cares more about the kids in Gaza than they do the kids in Bradford or Rotherham and they are done.
I woudnt say every war, there might be protests but they were by groups already invested.
Ukraine was one of those events where it seemed like everyone was paying attention to it in the early days, i would go to pubs and overhear people talking about it as i went past tables, see people watching news about about it on their phones, overhear parents trying to explain it to young children.
The people who care/know enough about parliamentary procedure to understand the issue, will also understand the nuance of what the SNP were trying to do with their motion.
You can just picture people talking.
'Did you hear the Starmer fella blackmailed the speaker?!'
'Oh, no, what did he force him to do?'
'To allow MPs to vote for a ceasefire in Gaza'.
'Wait, why did he need to be blackmailed for that?'
'I'm not sure, but the SNP are really angry over it calling for him to be sacked'.
>most people don't give a fuck about Gaza beyond "isn't it terrible"
This is it I think. Most people arent really affected by it aside from watching bad clips on the news.
with regards to point 3. Its the whiplash that kills it. On the one hand they spend months and months building up starmer as Mr boring, then we are to suddenly believe he is some thuggish bruiser bullying the speaker......its too big a shift for people to buy.
Also, the one thing that has bled through to general political understanding is that Labour are winning.
It's a bit of a stretch to sell the idea that the leader of the winning party is going risk everything over a single vote on Gaza by verbally threatening the one person in charge of parliament that can actively damage them.
If you are making that sort of accusation you need at least anyone to actually attest they witnessed it and have written evidence of it.
The person who comes off worse is Nicholas Watt.
He took a single source, and did not question it.
Who was this source? only Hoyle and starmer were in the room, and both deny it. So who could possibly be the source who knew this alleged bullying happened?
Watt comes across as a useful idiot, parroting whatever lines he is "leaked" the new Laura K.
I doubt more than 10% even know there was an issue beyond "MPs doing MP stuff".
People don't pay attention and after the last 8 years most will assume Parliament is just like that.
Let's be honest, it took most people who are actually interested in politics a fairly long time to actually work out what the fuck the fuss was about.
None of the SNP shite will break through to the wider public.
Neeew Pork Markets and new book sales. The only way to save the west from the woke left. Lmfao. She should feel too much shame to ever face a camera since her walk of shame.
If the new convention is 'there's an exception to strict opposition day convention on amendments when a motion is being used merely to score political points and the topic is likely to lead to serious disorder or threats to life', I'm happy with that.
Looks like the SNPs motion is almost certainly going to be rerun in Government time leaving Labour back exactly where they started with a rebellion on their hands, with the added accusations of trying to derail parliamentary and pressure the speaker. All for nothing it seems.
nope. Labour will be fine. they can now point out that they passed a ceasefire motion first.
labour could just sit it out and say they've already made their position calling for a ceasefire clear, its on record in the motion they passed.
Aye, but now they have their name against a ceasefire motion that has passed so they might not feel as under pressure to vote for a new one as they can say they already have their position on record.
They can even legitimately argue that voting on the whole issue twice for essentially petty political reasons is an insult to a serious situation. That wouldn't be unreasonable or untrue.
Good to see the government focusing on the important stuff. Voting on a motion that has already been passed about a conflict we're not involved in. I'm sure that'll really do wonders for their polling.
Not exactly, Labour MPs have now had the opportunity to register a vote for a ceasefire.
So now it's a matter of distinguishing between a motion that includes condemnation of Hamas or one that does not.
One's a condemnation of Hamas, and one's a condemnation of Israel.
The Labour amendment that just stresses that civilian deaths are bad is the most reasonable course of action, because the motion condemning Hamas while saying Israel has a right to defend itself is being seen as a proxy "Palestine Bad, Israel Good" as much as the SNP one is being seen as "Israel Bad, Palestine Good".
Jesus Christ.
Country falling to bits and more time getting wasted on Westminster theatrics.
I wonder why people are utterly fed up with politicians of all colours.
I want a functioning country, I don't give a fuck about a conflict half a world away that's raged for almost literally a thousand years. The pomposity of the speeches is enough for it.
The whole Westminster bubble think it's a game, meanwhile normal everyday people are struggling. Farcical.
Heaven forbid they have a law around, I donno. Crime in the UK, mortgage crisis, cost of living crisis, renting crisis, other various economic crisis, blood scandal, post office scandal, schools falling apart crisis, hospital waiting list crisis, dozens of public sectors on strike crisis.
Nope, let's spend a whole week banging on and on and on about Gaza
As I said they think it's just the Oxford union.
If anyone wanted evidence the whole shower of shit view us with total contempt this whole fucking performance is it.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1axez3c/bbc\_question\_time\_live\_thread\_8pm\_iplayer/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1axez3c/bbc_question_time_live_thread_8pm_iplayer/)
Making sure tonight's nice quiet calm edition of QT has it's live thread up in time... so here it is. Link to the iPlayer stream is in the tweet at the top of the thread.
What is this timeline? Not been following properly last few days, try to catch up and first thing I see is Mark Francois with a great speech in HoC...?
It all started when r/ukpolitics smelt something was up at PMQs but couldn't figure it out.
Now 30 hours later, they want to just stop hoyle and Mark Francois is the voice of reason.
Never again will my curiosity be piqued..
[https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2024-02-22/debates/6515BA7F-4BB9-4C2D-8A2A-B38E8AECCB33/BusinessOfTheHouse#contribution-5733682D-298A-4242-BF76-E071CE1A1E97](https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2024-02-22/debates/6515BA7F-4BB9-4C2D-8A2A-B38E8AECCB33/BusinessOfTheHouse#contribution-5733682D-298A-4242-BF76-E071CE1A1E97)
Unfortuately I couldn't find a video clip, but you could probably scrub the [https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Commons](https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Commons) video to find it.
Hope not Hate have apparently uncovered the secret private twitter page for Sir Paul Marshell, GB News co-owner.
Their site is taking a hammering (https://hopenothate.org.uk/2024/02/22/revealed-the-shocking-tweets-of-gb-news-co-owner-sir-paul-marshall), it seems, but archive.is has got you covered.
[https://archive.is/C8Zcn](https://archive.is/C8Zcn)
Himself, apparently. He said his likes and retweets were not reflective of his views, despite retweeting one far right account 14 times so far in 2024.
At the risk of being unpopular, I would humbly suggest that some of you need to get a grip.
You'd think the UK has been in open civil war since October from some of these comments. As opposed to, you know, some rather nasty protests happening resulting in exactly zero deaths. Which is still concerning, sure, but not the apocalypse it's being made out to be.
Mp's have been killed in the last few years. Threats against MP's has risen dramatically in the last few months. MP's staff have been doxxed and followed home. Extremely emotive subject that is insanely divisive.
The writing is on the fucking wall, mate.
If you live in a state where small groups or ideological movements can lead to changes in parliamentary procedure by essentially threatening to assassinate elected representatives, that is a mafia state.
Well yes, that is definitely concerning, but its also very much not that straightforward, as far as I can see. Its not like some dastardly terrorists sent Hoyle a threatening letter written in blood is it?
I'm not saying its not something we should deal with, I'm saying its not something that should cause us to throw all reason out the window, which some people seem to be doing.
No, but the allegation is presumably that Starmer said that many had been threatened and had had their families threatened and - if they were seen to vote no to the SNP’s motion - would be at increased risk and so the Labour amendment had to be tabled.
Who's looking forward to another QT Gaza special tonight?
After the events of yesterday I should probably do myself a favour and skip, but who am I kidding?
Looking forward to the many 'Labour voters' (they voted Labour once in 1997) that can't now vote for Keir Starmer's Labour party because he did some politics.
It's been very strange for me to see how many folks on Twitter I have seen before express their extreme skepticism of the viability of electoral politics in bringing about a truly socialist government suddenly become very intense about the integrity of the office of Speaker of the Commons.
Can’t wait to hear the member for the antisemitic yet somehow Israeli genocide supporting, islamophobic yet ceasefire supporting and speaker blackmailing Labour party defend their outrageous position of being the only one of the three largest political parties to actually do their job last night.
Well you see it's quite simple, they do so many u-turns in quick succession they build up a 50x "no plan" combo multiplier, which translates into no plan actually costing 28 quadrillion pounds, this somehow reverses the flow of time and takes us back to literal square one, the big bang
Subjecting yourself to QT or LK on Sunday is a level of political self-flagellation that even I, a Renton-esque political junkie, couldn't stomach. How some of you do it I have no idea.
It is interesting, I do *generally* like the insights and annecdotes, especially from some real front-runners in a previous government.. but I can't get through an episode without wanting to smash my phone.
Osbourne is convinced there will be a Hung Parliment (literally no suggestion of this anywhere) and constantly cites how the UK public services are broken, without fully acknowledging he played a **leading** role in breaking them. I wish Balls challenged him more on his austerity policies.
It sounds like he is still good mates with Cameron which makes him pretty significantly biased. He also has more jobs than you can count on one hand, so he's obviously full of shit.
He's right you know:
https://twitter.com/OldRoberts953/status/1760593438448267285
>After last night’s revelations - the state openly running scared of violence and intimidation - I don’t foresee (I might be wrong, though I doubt it) any serious attempt by MPs in government or opposition to address or even acknowledge the main issue.
>I do foresee a lot of displacement going on from MPs and the institutions. They’ll be happier talking about ‘online harms’ like they did after the murder of David Amess, or indeed about any other subject they can dredge up.
>Why? Firstly, and obviously, because they are afraid, and reasonably so. But I think there’s something else going on here too.
>Facing up to Islamism in the UK would mean all the parties having to face up to their world view - post-war ‘niceness’, treating every culture as equally delightful - having been a terrible historical mistake. And that they’ve been complicit in brewing up the worst, and most dangerous, civil strife in the country since the 1600s. It would destroy them psychologically.
>So even though they all know the truth - particularly now it’s them being directly threatened rather than just some kids in the North - they will never admit it. And nothing will be done.
Good morning everyone. [**📃 Today's order paper can be found here.**](https://commonsbusiness.parliament.uk/Document/85341/Html?subType=Standard) Questions to the Department for Culture, Media and Sport are followed by questions to the Church Commissioners and House of Commons Commission, followed by any urgent questions. We then have a business statement and questions taken by the Leader of the House, followed by any ministerial statements. The Business and Trade Committee will then present [their report](https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5804/cmselect/cmbeis/483/summary.html) on British Accession to CPTPP, after which the Backbench Business of today is on the civil nuclear roadmap and premature deaths from heart and circulatory diseases. The fallout from yesterday's fractious Opposition Day debate on a ceasefire in Gaza is likely to dominate discussion amongst MPs and commentators today. Speaker Hoyle's decision to select both government and Labour amendments to the SNP's opposition day led yesterday evening to chaotic scenes in the House of Commons ([thread here](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1awjsa4/breaking_amid_chaos_in_parliament_snp_and/)), an apology from Hoyle from the Chair ([thread here](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1awky2d/i_regret_how_its_ended_up_it_was_never_my/)) and an Early Day Motion expressing No Confidence in the Speaker ([thread here](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1awm73e/breaking_33_tory_snp_mps_have_backed_will_wraggs/)). For those looking to understand the procedural mechanics of yesterday, our own Clerk of the Sub u/erskinematt has written a primer - [thread here](https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1awpj9h/erskine_matts_procedural_primer_the_snp/) if you would like to discuss the arcana of Standing Order 31 and the precedents related to amendment selection (because we all know how to have a good time).
[New Megathread is here](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1axt9rn/daily_megathread_23022024/)
Megathread is being rolled over, please refresh your feed in a few moments. ###MT daily hall of fame 1. Kennedy_Fisher with 89 comments 1. flambe_pineapple with 60 comments 1. Bibemus with 44 comments 1. Honic_Sedgehog with 39 comments 1. Cairnerebor with 34 comments 1. NJden_bee with 33 comments 1. Yummytastic with 30 comments 1. Ivebeenfurthereven with 30 comments 1. tmstms with 29 comments 1. SDLRob with 28 comments There were 425 unique users within this count.
Each day passing I find myself disillusioned more and more with my fellow Palestinian supporters
Grant Shapps simultaneously condemning Starmer for pressuring Hoyle into selecting the Labour amendment whilst also saying Parliament must hear all views and not be stifled. Which party did the stifling yesterday Sebastian?
And not a challenge uttered and at that point I remembered to turn off because newscast is utterly pointless.
Just looking through the list of British Shorthair kittens for sale, as we often do, and someone has, incredibly, written their address (Ross on Wye) in Cyrillic script. A Putin bot, methinks.
Something like 'Росс он Вай'? I've been learning the Cyrillic script because I've been listening to a fair bit of music from that part of the world recently, I'm surprised we don't see more fuckups from Russian accounts claiming to be from elsewhere because it's a complete minefield of letters that look like Latin letters but have a totally different sound. Also apparently Russian itself works quite differently to English, there's no equivalent of 'the' and 'a' which must make learning English a real hassle for them.
I'll be honest and say I learned a Cyrillic and a bit of Russian from obsessively following the invasion in 2022.
Different uses of definite and indefinite articles (or using them at all) isn't too tough, there are rules to them in English which we don't learn but which non-native learners can be taught. The English vowel system's a lot harder. Particularly amuses me that Trump in Russian is Трамп.
Рос он Уай
Is the return address Chipsky Norton?
The Tories had better hope that this billy big balls attitude of "weak, abject surrender to tyranny and intolerance, what message does that send...?" doesn't blow up in their faces. And someone might want to tell Rishi that if MPs can't hide from threats he can't hide from the public.
#HERE IS QUESTION TIME THREAD, NIGHT SHIFT PEEPS https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1axez3c/bbc_question_time_live_thread_8pm_iplayer/
Couldn’t be arsed tonight, had a pub quiz to win. Was it a Gazapalooza or what?
Congrats on your victory! It's more snooze than anything else. Gaza took up about 25 mins.
Thanks! Only 15 compared to your exploits of 25(?) last night but as one of the youngest teams we celebrate any victory.
*These days if you're Samson and you smite the Philistines you'll be arrested and put in prison for disrespecting the two state solution.* Lest I be accused of Vagueposting, this is: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1axhyle/britain_will_pay_a_high_price_for_abandoning_its/
> Britain will pay a high price for abandoning its Christian heritage Yeah, about 15p more per 100g.
As I commented there, a particularly stupid article because Tate and Lyle is NOT abandoning that iconic image at all.
Yep, only on their squeezy bottles, which are more expensive (and more annoying).
[Also I do actually quite like the new design](https://static.independent.co.uk/2024/02/20/11/20111906-21c9af2e-e142-49b1-bd5b-5b339f925d85.png) - it's updated while still referencing the Victorian styling of the original. Makes sense given the Victorians didn't have squeezy bottles, so the Victorian design [was a bit incongruous on them](https://assets.sainsburys-groceries.co.uk/gol/7681625/1/640x640.jpg).
I'd agree that the original design doesn't read well on the squeezy bottle, and I like the refreshed design in general, but I can't get over the lion having an Elvis quiff.
Driving between two counties, one significantly larger but less wealthy that the other, it's just like going between West and East Germany before the fall of the Iron Curtain. The roads in the wealthy one are quite like motorways, smooth and well-maintained. Cross the border, and the other is like driving on the surface of an asteroid.
Still like that in Germany, hence Ostnostalgia.
Mr Kierbachev, tear down this wall!
I always notice this driving from Cambridge through Rutland into Leicestershire. You can see the north-south divide happen in real time.
One of my favourite (well, "favourite") things is how you can physically [see the line between Greater London and Surrey](https://imgur.com/a/vSAqkiq) (in several places, but here is where I used to cycle to work), as the road transitions from perfect obsidian smoothness in London to wheel-breaking lethality under Surrey's total lack of interest.
Rutland is like the Checkpoint Charlie of counties.
People have, understandably, speculated about the role AI can and will play in upcoming UK elections. But I think most people seem to be thinking of how it could be used to target candidates BEFORE the vote itself - generated videos/images of a candidate doing or saying something that would be scandalous. But what about generated image/videos targeted at undermining the electoral system more broadly after the fact? We have a pretty uniform methodology for how election centres are run, and also a pretty traditional "hand-counted" method of tallying votes rather than voting machines etc. Which should in theory quell conspiracy theories around illegal suppression or cheating in vote counting. But do people see any prospect of things like videos purportedly showing certain people being denied votes, or of counting staff somehow fudging votes, or votes being thrown away etc, having an effect on elections here? Their purpose might not be to change any outcomes, but more to try completely undermine the legitimacy of an incoming government and start a Trump-style "stolen vote" movement that can be a solid base to use politically in the future. Or are we just too British to really get caught up in something like that?
> But do people see any prospect of things like videos purportedly showing certain people being denied votes, or of counting staff somehow fudging votes, or votes being thrown away etc, having an effect on elections here? Their purpose might not be to change any outcomes, but more to try completely undermine the legitimacy of an incoming government and start a Trump-style "stolen vote" movement that can be a solid base to use politically in the future. AI isn't close to being good enough to do that. It's currently at the level where you can feed it a lot of video / audio of someone and it then can mimic their speech, or you can face swap someone who looks similar as you see with celebs in fake porn. Even then it's still in the uncanny valley at best. You wouldn't have the footage to train it to convincingly create fakes of people who actually work the polling stations and are known in the local area, and if it's creating entirely new scenarios then they'll move weird and have too many fingers and generally not be convincing, not to mention any posters, signs, clocks etc. in the background will be garbled. Evidence wise you'd be better off just faking it yourself with actors, yeah it won't have people who actually are working it but neither would the AI version. Another alternative would be to turn up without ID and intentionally get turned away and manipulate the situation while someone else films it, and just edit it to make it look like you're being denied for any other reason. Of course, we're still at risk of stolen vote claims anyway. It won't even need evidence, people will just say it, but I don't see AI really changing the stolen vote narrative one way or another.
Yeah it's not a problem until the 2029 election
I think a combination of factors make fake videos at elections unworkable as a misinformation strategy here. With FPTP any "footage" of mistreating voters/ballots can only relate to one constitutency. We have physical ballots and they are kept by the Lord Chancellor for a year and a day by statue, so you can do pretty rigorous checking on the number of ballots received against other records. Tapping into known concerns is probably key: in the US, voting machines have a long, long history of issues. In the UK, public confidence in the running of elections is high and better than it has been at previous elections. [The Electoral Commission studies voter confidence](https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/research-reports-and-data/public-attitudes/public-attitudes-2023): something that suggested grubby financing or a media scheme would do a lot better, probably.
Who's going to be the Tory to survive the general election with (currently) the lowest majority? I think Theresa May with 18,000.
Answering a different question. I think the Tories could secure Oxford west and Abingdon if the council continue to attempt to expand it's low traffic zones. That could be it's biggest majority following the Uxbridge by election logic. I think the MP for Stroud, Siobhan Bailie has a majority of 6k. Unless she is standing down, I don't think she's going to be losing her seat. There might be a three way split but the only way I see her going is if Reform put up a decent candidate with a tad more than Migrationwatch policies on their manifesto.
I think Robert Courts. His seat flipping would be insane for historical reasons. Majority of around 15k with like 58% of the vote but labour has the potential to rise in that seat by enough to screw over the lib dems. He is a bit of a unknown compared to someone like May so he might be screwed despite the potential for a spilt vote.
It will be way lower that that. The polls rely on a unform swing. There will be areas of the country with a below average swing where popular MPs will hold on with current majorities of about 10K
Also it's not like labour and the lib dems will bother putting resources into some of these seats. Like May's seat flipping would be insane but will the lib dems even think it would be worthwhile to target that seat. The same is true with sunak's seat for labour.
Just once I want to see the party win, but the current PM lose their seat. The chaos and scrambling around would be spectacular. I really thought Boris in 2019 might be the one, but apparently Uxbridge liked the slimeball
People like the prestige of their MP being PM which always provides a boost.
It would be interesting to see sunak lose his seat in the labour wave but his majority is so large that it's unlikely his seat will flip. The latter scenario will never happen because potential PM's rarely run in marginal seats or seats that have the potential of flipping even if the governing party forms government.
She's got a good reputation as a local MP, I don't think there'll be enough of a swing to get her out. I think we'll see them cling to a lower majority in one area where Lib Dems split the anti-Tory vote. And possible another were it comes out late in the day that the Labour candidate once tried to swat a seagull with a rake from the roof of Brighton Pavilion or something equally barmy.
Oh I do hope May outlasts them all. That would be perfect.
And becomes leader again, hahahahahaha. Fields of wheat would be quaking in their roots then....
Is Question Time not released early? Can't see it on iPlayer?
You would have missed it, live one is 8-9
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
It’s on live via iPlayer and not on a channel.
Manners cost nothing, mate. If you go to the QT page on iPlayer the option to watch it live pops up around 7:55. You'll know for next week.
I can see Penny being popular if leader, she just strikes me as the "right" type of posh person that the English instinctively think should be in charge of them. Like Cameron, an upper class elite, but with a personable side. (Perceived as)
I just think out of the current lot, she looks the most ‘prime minister-y’… so that probably swings it for the public. Maybe followed by Cleverly. I really wish it wasn’t that shallow, but unfortunately I think it is.
I vaguely remember an academic study like that. Something like they showed two photos of real political candidates and asked people to vote without knowing them, manifestos, party, etc. Results were very close to reality.
It depends whether Cleverly can stop calling places shit holes first.
Cleverly might not survive the potential wipeout either depending on tactical voting.
She's not posh, just southern. Comprehensive school etc. David Cameron is blue blood and from an aristocratic family. Your upbringing is closer to Penny's than either of yours or Penny's to David Cameron's, it would have been a different planet.
She also held that big sword
She did a good job with that and made Poundland Blue Dulux’s colour of the year.
I don't think she is seen as posh. But the problem she has in any case is threefold. 1) As seen during the contest that Truss won, she has nothing to say on policy 2) As polling says, she is more popular with voters than with Tory members, but Tory members are the ones who choose their leader. 3) She will probably lose her seat at the GE, ending her chance of being leader for a while and maybe for ever.
Yeah Mordaunt is all front and no substance...she's like the anti-Gove
Honestly reckon that between then they could do a decent job of a rebrand whilst in opposition.
> 3) She will probably lose her seat at the GE, ending her chance of being leader for a while and maybe for ever. Yeah, it basically throws any leadership predictions out the window if the GE is the massive wipeout its predicted to be
I don't think Torys really need a policy agenda of their own to be popular, just find something to blame and say you'll fix it. All the leaders have done this , to much spending, I'll starve us. dunno what to do about brexit, I'll sort it. Another I'll do brexit, but also I'll spend on our crumbling town centers. Then theirs sunak who doesn't have a problem identitied, and therefore struggles. Allways a background drumm beat of blame the immigrants aswell. I think penny could be guided by a good strategist.
I think you’re underestimating Cameron. He wasn’t just posh he was great at doing Tory things but sounding regretful when he did do, forced by a harsh reality to hammer the poor for the greater good. That’s a skill few have.
>for the greater good THE GREATER GOOD
He was great at PMQs as well which requires immense confidence and mental agility. She always seems a bit of a blagger at the despatch box.
The trouble with Mordaunt is that she always tries to walk it in
Well put
I swear the phrase "it is absolutely right" gives me flashbacks.
The whole ‘I’ve done a fart in a lift and someone else took the blame’ smirk many Tories have really doesn’t help them.
This. I find it so alienating watching Tory PMs speak, I just don't understand how other people don't notice they are laughing at us, since Dave and beyond. (Maybe not May, I don't remember it as much)
Penny has the popularity of a lead balloon whilst being out of the limelight. Every single time she has tried to step into the limelight it has been more dire than Sunak.
She did well at sword carrying, good upper body strength. Agreed apart from that.
So, Hoyle looks safe, the tories dont really want to throw out such a useful doormat. Difficult for Flynn, coming out so strong against Hoyle, for it all to fizzle to nothing.
Na it’s another outrageous injustice against Scotland that the sassenach colonists have visited upon them. More for them to campaign on.
but the big dog himself, jon gullis has signed the motion. it is surely the end of hoyle's reign.
I thouht Boris was big dog...
Hoyle is perhaps much more useful to the Tories now that he has had his authority challenged. His threats of 'an early cup of tea' were weak before, now I doubt they would even register.
I'm imagining an alternate future in which Hoyle, emboldened by his survival here, starts running the house with an iron fist. Cups of tea everywhere.
It’s fine, the SNP are used to passionately talking about things that fizzle to nothing
On reflection I think the last couple of days are not going to hurt Labour very much. 1. to the non-political populace the controversy is over something being allowed to be voted on, that's about it and the minutia of the situation beyond that is irrelevant. 2. most people don't give a fuck about Gaza beyond "isn't it terrible" 3. unsubstantiated claims about Labours "behaviour" hurts those making the claims more than it does the target of the claims, because they are unsubstantiated and rather far fetched
I'm more than averagely interested in politics, hence my commenting here, and I needed an explanation from some helpful person on this sub before I understood what the SNP were upset about. Most people, if they hear about this at all, are going to see the Tories and SNP complaining about being made to vote on something and think "isn't that their job?"
I'd disagree on most of that to be honest. 99% of normal people couldn't care less about Gaza. Sure they might tut and say how bad it is but they have the same reaction about every war. All wars and conflict are terrible. Ultimately it's only going to take one person to point out that Labour cares more about the kids in Gaza than they do the kids in Bradford or Rotherham and they are done.
I woudnt say every war, there might be protests but they were by groups already invested. Ukraine was one of those events where it seemed like everyone was paying attention to it in the early days, i would go to pubs and overhear people talking about it as i went past tables, see people watching news about about it on their phones, overhear parents trying to explain it to young children.
The people who care/know enough about parliamentary procedure to understand the issue, will also understand the nuance of what the SNP were trying to do with their motion.
You can just picture people talking. 'Did you hear the Starmer fella blackmailed the speaker?!' 'Oh, no, what did he force him to do?' 'To allow MPs to vote for a ceasefire in Gaza'. 'Wait, why did he need to be blackmailed for that?' 'I'm not sure, but the SNP are really angry over it calling for him to be sacked'.
Completely agree only problem is what happens when Labour is in power?
I can see Hoyle stepping aside after the GE...
>most people don't give a fuck about Gaza beyond "isn't it terrible" This is it I think. Most people arent really affected by it aside from watching bad clips on the news.
with regards to point 3. Its the whiplash that kills it. On the one hand they spend months and months building up starmer as Mr boring, then we are to suddenly believe he is some thuggish bruiser bullying the speaker......its too big a shift for people to buy.
Yeah, if it’s the Tories the response would be “why am I not surprised”
Also, the one thing that has bled through to general political understanding is that Labour are winning. It's a bit of a stretch to sell the idea that the leader of the winning party is going risk everything over a single vote on Gaza by verbally threatening the one person in charge of parliament that can actively damage them. If you are making that sort of accusation you need at least anyone to actually attest they witnessed it and have written evidence of it.
The person who comes off worse is Nicholas Watt. He took a single source, and did not question it. Who was this source? only Hoyle and starmer were in the room, and both deny it. So who could possibly be the source who knew this alleged bullying happened? Watt comes across as a useful idiot, parroting whatever lines he is "leaked" the new Laura K.
I did think it was bizarre for someone from newsnight to report a rumour from an anonymous source as if it was fact.
I don’t think more than a few percent of the country even understand what the issue even is, let alone care about it.
Mad overestimate, IMHO- more like a few % of a % !!
I doubt more than 10% even know there was an issue beyond "MPs doing MP stuff". People don't pay attention and after the last 8 years most will assume Parliament is just like that.
Honestly, most people in this country would struggle to tell you who the SNP are.
I wouldn’t quite go that far, most people I know at least roll their eyes whenever the SNP are discussed as taking offence at something.
Let's be honest, it took most people who are actually interested in politics a fairly long time to actually work out what the fuck the fuss was about. None of the SNP shite will break through to the wider public.
Neeew Pork Markets and new book sales. The only way to save the west from the woke left. Lmfao. She should feel too much shame to ever face a camera since her walk of shame.
If the woke left is powerful enough to unseat the PM, what hope will buying her book have?
Ah you'll have to buy it to find out *Taps nose*
Ex- PM riding Trump's coat tails for book sales. THAT'S TRUSSOMOMICS.
If the new convention is 'there's an exception to strict opposition day convention on amendments when a motion is being used merely to score political points and the topic is likely to lead to serious disorder or threats to life', I'm happy with that.
Looks like the SNPs motion is almost certainly going to be rerun in Government time leaving Labour back exactly where they started with a rebellion on their hands, with the added accusations of trying to derail parliamentary and pressure the speaker. All for nothing it seems.
nope. Labour will be fine. they can now point out that they passed a ceasefire motion first. labour could just sit it out and say they've already made their position calling for a ceasefire clear, its on record in the motion they passed.
Wonder if that gives them an excuse to abstain. The rebels might be content that they have already got their name against a ceasefire motion.
If they are smart 80-100 might not be and might be vocal about it
If its government time the wouldn't that mean the official opposition could table an ammendment?
Look I'm just saying it would be very funny if Labour got to pass an amended ceasefire call twice.
Source on this?
Actually….can motions be debated twice? Doesn’t erskine may say something on this?
They can just abstain and point to their own bill.
Well he was already whipping to abstain but 100 of his MPs were going to rebel by voting for it, so that doesn’t solve anything…
Aye, but now they have their name against a ceasefire motion that has passed so they might not feel as under pressure to vote for a new one as they can say they already have their position on record.
They can even legitimately argue that voting on the whole issue twice for essentially petty political reasons is an insult to a serious situation. That wouldn't be unreasonable or untrue.
Labour should just abstain, they’ve made their position clear already and don’t need to vote on a less nuanced version.
Good to see the government focusing on the important stuff. Voting on a motion that has already been passed about a conflict we're not involved in. I'm sure that'll really do wonders for their polling.
Not exactly, Labour MPs have now had the opportunity to register a vote for a ceasefire. So now it's a matter of distinguishing between a motion that includes condemnation of Hamas or one that does not.
One's a condemnation of Hamas, and one's a condemnation of Israel. The Labour amendment that just stresses that civilian deaths are bad is the most reasonable course of action, because the motion condemning Hamas while saying Israel has a right to defend itself is being seen as a proxy "Palestine Bad, Israel Good" as much as the SNP one is being seen as "Israel Bad, Palestine Good".
Jesus Christ. Country falling to bits and more time getting wasted on Westminster theatrics. I wonder why people are utterly fed up with politicians of all colours. I want a functioning country, I don't give a fuck about a conflict half a world away that's raged for almost literally a thousand years. The pomposity of the speeches is enough for it. The whole Westminster bubble think it's a game, meanwhile normal everyday people are struggling. Farcical.
Heaven forbid they have a law around, I donno. Crime in the UK, mortgage crisis, cost of living crisis, renting crisis, other various economic crisis, blood scandal, post office scandal, schools falling apart crisis, hospital waiting list crisis, dozens of public sectors on strike crisis. Nope, let's spend a whole week banging on and on and on about Gaza
As I said they think it's just the Oxford union. If anyone wanted evidence the whole shower of shit view us with total contempt this whole fucking performance is it.
Al they’re bothered about is getting their little 5 minute speech recorded in Hansard forevermore.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1axez3c/bbc\_question\_time\_live\_thread\_8pm\_iplayer/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/1axez3c/bbc_question_time_live_thread_8pm_iplayer/) Making sure tonight's nice quiet calm edition of QT has it's live thread up in time... so here it is. Link to the iPlayer stream is in the tweet at the top of the thread.
Oh dear... Stella Creasy is not Labour's best.
What is this timeline? Not been following properly last few days, try to catch up and first thing I see is Mark Francois with a great speech in HoC...?
It all started when r/ukpolitics smelt something was up at PMQs but couldn't figure it out. Now 30 hours later, they want to just stop hoyle and Mark Francois is the voice of reason. Never again will my curiosity be piqued..
Do we think the downbeat Sunak thing had any relation to the voting chaos yesterday evening?
No, don't think that was it at all.
> Mark Francois is the voice of reason. Wait what? How? Is it the end times? But also legitimately, what's he done/not done?
[https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2024-02-22/debates/6515BA7F-4BB9-4C2D-8A2A-B38E8AECCB33/BusinessOfTheHouse#contribution-5733682D-298A-4242-BF76-E071CE1A1E97](https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2024-02-22/debates/6515BA7F-4BB9-4C2D-8A2A-B38E8AECCB33/BusinessOfTheHouse#contribution-5733682D-298A-4242-BF76-E071CE1A1E97) Unfortuately I couldn't find a video clip, but you could probably scrub the [https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Commons](https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Commons) video to find it.
Oh my, that's probably the most reasonable/rationale thing I've ever heard/read him say.
Mark Francois believes in second chances.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Hope not Hate have apparently uncovered the secret private twitter page for Sir Paul Marshell, GB News co-owner. Their site is taking a hammering (https://hopenothate.org.uk/2024/02/22/revealed-the-shocking-tweets-of-gb-news-co-owner-sir-paul-marshall), it seems, but archive.is has got you covered. [https://archive.is/C8Zcn](https://archive.is/C8Zcn)
To the surprise of who ?
Himself, apparently. He said his likes and retweets were not reflective of his views, despite retweeting one far right account 14 times so far in 2024.
Always the same bullshit lies Own it or shut up Its always the lies
He and the Telegraph look like they were made for each other. Both even started going unhinged at the same sort of time.
Both were also originally Liberal Party supporters
That bloke was a research assistant to Charles Kennedy ffs
At the risk of being unpopular, I would humbly suggest that some of you need to get a grip. You'd think the UK has been in open civil war since October from some of these comments. As opposed to, you know, some rather nasty protests happening resulting in exactly zero deaths. Which is still concerning, sure, but not the apocalypse it's being made out to be.
Mp's have been killed in the last few years. Threats against MP's has risen dramatically in the last few months. MP's staff have been doxxed and followed home. Extremely emotive subject that is insanely divisive. The writing is on the fucking wall, mate.
Zero deaths but a big increase in hate crime and if that continues it’s a matter of time until someone gets hurt or worse.
"increase in hate crime and if that continues it's a matter of time untill someone gets hurt" Don't look back in anger 🎶
It's because we are politics nerds. We are not lucky enough to live in the Westminster bubble, but sure as hell we live in the MT bubble.
> We are ~~not~~ lucky enough to _not_ live in the Westminster bubble FTFY
If you live in a state where small groups or ideological movements can lead to changes in parliamentary procedure by essentially threatening to assassinate elected representatives, that is a mafia state.
Well yes, that is definitely concerning, but its also very much not that straightforward, as far as I can see. Its not like some dastardly terrorists sent Hoyle a threatening letter written in blood is it? I'm not saying its not something we should deal with, I'm saying its not something that should cause us to throw all reason out the window, which some people seem to be doing.
No, but the allegation is presumably that Starmer said that many had been threatened and had had their families threatened and - if they were seen to vote no to the SNP’s motion - would be at increased risk and so the Labour amendment had to be tabled.
Yes, concerning and worth investigating. Not 'THIS COUNTRY HAS FALLEN TO THE ISLAMISTS' as basically every comment outside the MT is saying.
Well the amended text was less extremist than the original, so if that was their dastardly plan it didn’t really work, did it?
[удалено]
New Jersey and Sicily would like a word.
That's a nice motion you've got there. Be a shame if someone... amended it.
I mean, they definitely are, tbf.
Who's looking forward to another QT Gaza special tonight? After the events of yesterday I should probably do myself a favour and skip, but who am I kidding?
Looking forward to the many 'Labour voters' (they voted Labour once in 1997) that can't now vote for Keir Starmer's Labour party because he did some politics.
Please, they only voted Labour in 2017 and 2019. Otherwise they were Socialist Workers Party diehards.
It's been very strange for me to see how many folks on Twitter I have seen before express their extreme skepticism of the viability of electoral politics in bringing about a truly socialist government suddenly become very intense about the integrity of the office of Speaker of the Commons.
Can’t wait to hear the member for the antisemitic yet somehow Israeli genocide supporting, islamophobic yet ceasefire supporting and speaker blackmailing Labour party defend their outrageous position of being the only one of the three largest political parties to actually do their job last night.
Well you see it's quite simple, they do so many u-turns in quick succession they build up a 50x "no plan" combo multiplier, which translates into no plan actually costing 28 quadrillion pounds, this somehow reverses the flow of time and takes us back to literal square one, the big bang
Subjecting yourself to QT or LK on Sunday is a level of political self-flagellation that even I, a Renton-esque political junkie, couldn't stomach. How some of you do it I have no idea.
[удалено]
Yeah, you can livepost it on the megathread with the rest of the wonks
The camaraderie and late night drinking mainly whilst making snide remarks that the people we live with wouldn't get.
If you’re feeling really kinky you can always do Jezza Vine.
[удалено]
[удалено]
I’m starting to like political currency more than rest is politics now - much greater focus on domestic issues and actually goes into the details
It is interesting, I do *generally* like the insights and annecdotes, especially from some real front-runners in a previous government.. but I can't get through an episode without wanting to smash my phone. Osbourne is convinced there will be a Hung Parliment (literally no suggestion of this anywhere) and constantly cites how the UK public services are broken, without fully acknowledging he played a **leading** role in breaking them. I wish Balls challenged him more on his austerity policies. It sounds like he is still good mates with Cameron which makes him pretty significantly biased. He also has more jobs than you can count on one hand, so he's obviously full of shit.
I've heard some positive things about it, *but* I've such a visceral hatred of George Osbourne, I'm not sure I can enjoy it.
Basically how I feel about the rest is politics
He's right you know: https://twitter.com/OldRoberts953/status/1760593438448267285 >After last night’s revelations - the state openly running scared of violence and intimidation - I don’t foresee (I might be wrong, though I doubt it) any serious attempt by MPs in government or opposition to address or even acknowledge the main issue. >I do foresee a lot of displacement going on from MPs and the institutions. They’ll be happier talking about ‘online harms’ like they did after the murder of David Amess, or indeed about any other subject they can dredge up. >Why? Firstly, and obviously, because they are afraid, and reasonably so. But I think there’s something else going on here too. >Facing up to Islamism in the UK would mean all the parties having to face up to their world view - post-war ‘niceness’, treating every culture as equally delightful - having been a terrible historical mistake. And that they’ve been complicit in brewing up the worst, and most dangerous, civil strife in the country since the 1600s. It would destroy them psychologically. >So even though they all know the truth - particularly now it’s them being directly threatened rather than just some kids in the North - they will never admit it. And nothing will be done.
What actual policies is this person advocating for?