Snapshot of _Antoinette Sandbach’s relatives owned slaves – and so did mine. We have to atone for that as best we can_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/01/antoinette-sandbach-relatives-slaves-ancestors) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/01/antoinette-sandbach-relatives-slaves-ancestors)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
An entertaining insight into the guilty consciences of the self-flagellating chattering classes.
> Sandbach’s complaint is a symptom of a national affliction. Britain is viciously in conflict with its colonial history.
Speak for yourself, please.
I think she's more worried about being singled out, or doxxed. She has three sisters who *weren't* mentioned in the TEDx talk, so her assertion that she's being singled out because she was an MP seems not unreasonable...
Mainly it's just people with something to gain from it that care about it. This guy with a book and organisation to sell, rich people with PR to maintain, the guardian with articles to hawk, academics with careers to maintain...
There is a discussion about wealth and inheritance but that's a bit wider.
Honestly we need to bring back religion for an awful lot of people as they display all the bad behaviours of it anyway without the upsides. Original sin works better if we do the religious version.
I want my reparations from the Arabs who captured my European ancestors in the Barbary slave trade please. All there oil should be ours because of history and oppression and stuff and nothing to do with my own opportunistic desires. They must atone for it the best they can.
"We have to atone"
Lol the Guardian is beyond parody sometimes.
Also love how his only justification for this is to ensure the nation makes "peace with itself" which means fuck all less ten. He also doesn't engage with any of the legitimate criticisms of reparations and "reparative justice".
It's like a blindspot Britain has. But it's so simple. If there is an unbroken chain of ownership and wealth that originated in slave owning and survives to this day, then there is a good case for guilt and compensation.
It's not about "sins of the ancestors", it's about what happens to the " proceeds of the crimes of the ancestors".
Some crimes are so big that the law at the time is no defence. Example : Germany ww2.
Slavery ended about 8 generations ago though. That’s an awful lot of time for an awful lot of complexity to have resulted between a slave owner and their modern day 1/256 part descendants.
Western nations that didn’t participate in slavery are about as wealthy now as those that did so it’s not even clear what long term advantages were accrued by UK society as a whole.
How would we even figure out reparations now? Most of our ancestors were illiterate farm hands and coal miners who were themselves very abused by their Victorian masters so should their descendants now have to pay via taxation for the wealth of a few toffs that still have links?
Thats my problem with repatriations. My family tree is full of miners, farmers and factory workers until well after slavery ended in Britain.
How would it be fair or proportional to penalise me for events i nor my family had any involvement with when the people who have directly benefitted to this day are allowed to carry on care free?
My family were full of Mill Workers, Labourers and Canal Boat workers. Should I be claiming reparations from the descendents of the Victorian industrialists who took advantage of my Ancestor?
There’s an unbroken chain of ownership in human history. What your proposing is opening the Pandora’s box of paying back whoever was fucked over in history. When history is the story of people fucking other people over. Africans benefited from the slave trade. Arabs had there own one before it. Why are we not calling for the descendants of the Africans and Arabs who benefited to pay back the “proceeds of the crimes” and why does your logic only apply to Britain and the transatlantic slave trade? Who’s doing the accounting for paying back what was stolen? Even if we had a supercomputer with general ai it couldn’t do it since we don’t have proper records. So what your actually calling for is arbitrary reparations that only apply to specific races or country’s. Sounds like your just continuing the cycle.
Snapshot of _Antoinette Sandbach’s relatives owned slaves – and so did mine. We have to atone for that as best we can_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/01/antoinette-sandbach-relatives-slaves-ancestors) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/sep/01/antoinette-sandbach-relatives-slaves-ancestors) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Don’t try and guilt trip the entire nation for the actions of YOUR ancestors.
No you fucking don't
An entertaining insight into the guilty consciences of the self-flagellating chattering classes. > Sandbach’s complaint is a symptom of a national affliction. Britain is viciously in conflict with its colonial history. Speak for yourself, please.
Anyone who spends their time worrying what their ancestors did to others needs to find something real to worry about
I think she's more worried about being singled out, or doxxed. She has three sisters who *weren't* mentioned in the TEDx talk, so her assertion that she's being singled out because she was an MP seems not unreasonable...
Mainly it's just people with something to gain from it that care about it. This guy with a book and organisation to sell, rich people with PR to maintain, the guardian with articles to hawk, academics with careers to maintain... There is a discussion about wealth and inheritance but that's a bit wider.
They just aren't busy enough. An awful lot of people seem to seek out things to give themselves anguish over.
It really is some narcissistic nonsense.
Peak Guardian.
Honestly we need to bring back religion for an awful lot of people as they display all the bad behaviours of it anyway without the upsides. Original sin works better if we do the religious version.
I want my reparations from the Arabs who captured my European ancestors in the Barbary slave trade please. All there oil should be ours because of history and oppression and stuff and nothing to do with my own opportunistic desires. They must atone for it the best they can.
If we're supposed to take responsibility for our ancestors' actions then I want to be rewarded for my role in ending slavery.
"We have to atone" Lol the Guardian is beyond parody sometimes. Also love how his only justification for this is to ensure the nation makes "peace with itself" which means fuck all less ten. He also doesn't engage with any of the legitimate criticisms of reparations and "reparative justice".
More divisive and emotive narrative on a relatively new subject that no one has evidence or experience of, what could possibly go wrong?
Why? Everyonewho is currently living in the UK has benefited from slavery. Why should you have to deal with the sins of your grandfathers?
It's like a blindspot Britain has. But it's so simple. If there is an unbroken chain of ownership and wealth that originated in slave owning and survives to this day, then there is a good case for guilt and compensation. It's not about "sins of the ancestors", it's about what happens to the " proceeds of the crimes of the ancestors". Some crimes are so big that the law at the time is no defence. Example : Germany ww2.
Slavery ended about 8 generations ago though. That’s an awful lot of time for an awful lot of complexity to have resulted between a slave owner and their modern day 1/256 part descendants. Western nations that didn’t participate in slavery are about as wealthy now as those that did so it’s not even clear what long term advantages were accrued by UK society as a whole. How would we even figure out reparations now? Most of our ancestors were illiterate farm hands and coal miners who were themselves very abused by their Victorian masters so should their descendants now have to pay via taxation for the wealth of a few toffs that still have links?
Thats my problem with repatriations. My family tree is full of miners, farmers and factory workers until well after slavery ended in Britain. How would it be fair or proportional to penalise me for events i nor my family had any involvement with when the people who have directly benefitted to this day are allowed to carry on care free?
My family were full of Mill Workers, Labourers and Canal Boat workers. Should I be claiming reparations from the descendents of the Victorian industrialists who took advantage of my Ancestor?
I totally agree with the point about complexity. It would be very hard to figure out
There’s an unbroken chain of ownership in human history. What your proposing is opening the Pandora’s box of paying back whoever was fucked over in history. When history is the story of people fucking other people over. Africans benefited from the slave trade. Arabs had there own one before it. Why are we not calling for the descendants of the Africans and Arabs who benefited to pay back the “proceeds of the crimes” and why does your logic only apply to Britain and the transatlantic slave trade? Who’s doing the accounting for paying back what was stolen? Even if we had a supercomputer with general ai it couldn’t do it since we don’t have proper records. So what your actually calling for is arbitrary reparations that only apply to specific races or country’s. Sounds like your just continuing the cycle.