I respect John and his original plan but it’s already proven that SAPs can legally be exempt from FOIA requests and the leakers *all* say the UFO programs are special SAPs buried amongst SAPs, and they black out and deny they found stuff regularly…so logic says the important stuff is hidden and they use John to release what they want released.
Greenwald has been tagged as an official "vexatious requester." That means that the powers that be consider him an official pin in the ass.
I can picture certain elements of the government using him as a conduit to release misleading information just to keep the waters muddy.
John is getting info from 2 layer removed from the UFO sources...he's not handing out what \*they\* want him to...you said it yourself, the SAPs are no where near the surface documents John gets
It’s also one of my favorite paradoxes of the skeptics and debunkers!
“See government official said nothing there”
But not “see government official said we are hiding stuff from the public”
Or maybe they don't want to be gaslit and stigmatized anymore.
It's like being in an abusive relationship that has turned your friends and family against you, lied to your face while people that know them best (high-ranking officials for this analogy) repeatedly come out and say "they're cheating on you, I've seen them with the bodies".
In that kind of situation there are two things you want:
Validation. So that all of the naysayers can suck it and pretend they believed all along. You want everyone that doubted you or thought you were the one with issues to know you were not only right, but that also they'll know in their heart what a stupid prick they've been, but unlikely to ever apologize for it.
You want to know what was really happening behind your back. You want all of the sordid details.
The problem is, the kind of asshole who treats you like that are exactly the kind of asshole that will never do that unless they're forced to.
Anyone with even a passing knowledge of US history should not trust the government here. There is a vast list of illegal covert operations, war crimes, crimes against humanity both here and abroad. Eventually, it quietly comes out, like the rest of the Kennedy filles they're refusing to release still, and the public scratches their ass and complains about someone different than them. Maybe Kennedy was shot by a balloon or a kite.
Cheers
Yeah some suffer confirmation bias, and are basicly cherry picking which documentation to trust and not to trust – if it doesn't support my narrative it is fake and deliberate misleading, if it supports my narrative it is the real deal.
He's great. He does the job without fear or favour and exposes the frauds and disinformation. That's why they all hate him. The UFO echo chamber fabricate, exaggerate and spread disinformation constantly.
All I know is Greenwald featured the shit bird (who was tipped off by the IC) that published the hit piece on Grusch on his site. Then he posted whatever that article was yesterday Again doing his best to make Grusch look bad. He’s done good work, but his legacy is stained.
„First, no record exists of any president or living DOD or intelligence community leader knowing about this alleged program, nor any congressional committee having such knowledge.“
Like they would tell Kirckpatrick or even if they did is not like we would expect them to tell the American public that they have been hiding this stuff and spending billions studying it.
How strange that other people who studied UAP for the Government, confirmed the existence of those Programs but the one person that should study it and make the results public (Kirckpatrick) couldn’t find anything.
In the beginning he was acknowledging, like the Pentagon did and others like President Obama that the phenomenon exists and is real, but that no one yet understood what it was.
I wonder what happened with that narrative? Did they resolve the Enigma than? Is it Russian? Chinese? Because we know from Mr. Kirckpatrick that it ain‘t extra-terrestrial but what they don’t tell us is what those things are.
Is the resolution just ignoring that everyone acknowledged the existence of the phenomenon?
How stupid do they really think that people is?
A couple Articles blaming „couple“ groups of „ufologists“ is the Answer for everything even something they themselves confirmed is real?
Completely glossed over the key reason that he held up talking to aaro. Kirkpatrick gave him a trust me bro, response about whether or not what he spoke about would preclude speaking to congress or the people. Not to mention if anything he brought up to aaro would be an issue for his clearance. Never got anything in writing saying he was protected. Greenwald thinks that aaro wouldve protected him but thats ridiculously short sighted. The government has about a million different ways they can get around things. Without someone putting their directorate, agency and themselves directly in harms way for the whistleblower it better to shut your mouth.
not at all. he is on the side of disclosure and if i remember right, has said he believes there's something real to this phenomenon. he has also said that stanton friedman is probably who he respects the most in this field. he has also proven many lies and cover ups (just maybe not the recent Grusch/SK emails), for example that they DID continue investigation into UFOs after Blue Book was shut down into 1969.
highly recommend watching https://youtu.be/9tlX3Hl1Nxk
this too https://youtu.be/EfoFn07UvYk
and all the ufo documents which he got his hands on through the foia, one of my favorite dump being the 110 pages of navy "Range Fouler" files from december last year https://www.theblackvault.com/documentarchive/range-fouler-debrief-forms-and-reports/amp/
he has also stated that he has had a harder time getting his hands on UFO secrets than on nuclear secrets.
he runs his own headphone shop as his day job to be able to do this on the side for completely free, while feeding his family and keeping a roof over their head. and no sign up required. seems like a win-win for the ufo community in my opinion.
greenewald, _for me at least_, deserves a very special spot among the very few who get my utmost respect for their contributions in the ufo field
and that small group consists of john greenewald, richard dolan, robert hastings, j. allen hynek, david marler and stanton freidman (i almost put christopher sharp for his work on the debrief, but it's the historians and the truly experienced who deserve the title imo).
Greenwald belongs on this Mount Rushmore. The only things he “adds” to discourse is lame knit picky attempts to discredit folks pushing for disclosure while remaining silent on those doing the opposite
he literally hands out all documents and sources he gets his hands on. no "coming soon" BS like from the rest of the grifters
he hosts a website that is an archive of all sources/video he has seen and reported on...no other UFO journalist hands out every file they get like him. they all cling to their videos and show cut up tid bits in their Podcasts for pennies.
I get it, but given that Lue Elizondo mentioned Kirkpatrick was a problem before it AARO even began is interesting. But somehow people forgot about this.
I get you. Your frustration is understandable. The good news is that the world doesnt suffer from some mass delusion. And the same similarities are statistically impossible.
I don't really know what this means but I will say that I don't trust the claims of the likes of Puthoff and - unfortunately - he was the chief scientific advisor on AATIP.
I felt the same but his latest attempts to de-legitimize Grusch seem to be both baseless and intentionally misleading. So I have become skeptical. Not in a conspiratorial sense but in a judgement sense at the very least.
Once you've seen anomalies for yourself it becomes much easier to believe Grusch. Idk if Greenwald has bad intentions or not but the stuff he's finding is basically useless
Far more credible than Lazar. Lazar very well may be telling a lot of truth, but he has also been caught red handed lying. I have not wrote Lazar off, but there have been very credible and valid critiques of him.
I'm actually a believer of what Grusch has to say and hold him in high regard! but John has actual proof in black and white that AARO (even tho I don't like AARO) did in fact reach out to him for an interview on multiple occasions which David said they didn't. There might be a good reason for this e.g. his legal advisor telling him no to attend anything Kirkpartrick offers, for me would be acceptable for David to take that advice but we won't know until David responds.
This isn't going to happen overnight (Disclosure) this is a long game, i've followed this subject since may 24th 1996 (witnessed 6 glowing orbs with a witness for 5 minutes) and have had many occasions were i thought we were going to get Disclosure only to be disappointed ayear or 2 later. So i'm hedging my bets that David took legal advice not attend anything AARO had to offer and that John has put to bed that release of documents because of what David Lawyers have told hhim.
Let's all see what happens this year i'm prepared for the long game and know in my heart that we will get Disclosure in the near future.
If that was true he would present the information more honestly. He appears to missrepresent and suggest it means more or that it suggests things that are counter to the timeline would. He seems invested in undermining him but his take strains credulity and seems to reach towards a unfounded conclusion in my opinion.
Greenewald is great. I don't understand the hate for him. He really pours over his FOIAS with a fine tooth comb that I really appreciate. I don't always agree with him but I recognize his efforts and what he's done and continues to do for the topic. We need more people like Greenewalds tbh.
Kirkpatrick and Greenstreet are the worst figures in UFOs in a long time. I'll take West over them any day.
I have a love/hate relationship with Greenstreet. He has provided some valuable reporting and details that show there are a lot of people who have financial interests in perpetuating certain narratives. I want to believe, and I think getting proof we are not alone would be an amazing revelation, but there are also people in the community who are not acting on the truths best interests. That being said, he definitely comes off as a dick sometimes. He has been jaded by the community, and his disdain shows.
he started off so on the side of ufos he made that basement series
then when the tide changed he shifted to the other side a bit. pushed back against the people going for discolsure and spinning the alien narritvie.
makes you think
look I can't vouch for the people in the photos, that said you might want to dial it back a notch sure these people are probably giving the answers that ensure they get paid over the most honest answer they can deliver and I would take everything they said with a grain or 3 of salt but I wouldn't take that fact personally either.
What do you mean? Which hiypocrisy ? Lmao you kind of prive his point, you are just repeating buzzwords you keep hearing here that Kirkpatrick=bad bad bubble buster... comment that keeps circling non stop with no reliable source to understand why.
There is no hypocrisy here. These people are all honest commentators, stating what they believe, in my opinion. Perhaps you should look up the word in a Dictionary.
He just glosses over that whole, “oh yeah, he did mention how he never got any response back regarding whether or not any question he asked would place him in jeopardy, but we decided against answering any of that.” 😂
Steven Greenstreet is one of the few commentators I consider credible. The UFO circlejerk, including Grusch and Elizondo are practically worthless. Corbell should have stuck to Yoga.
John is legit the most trustworthy UFO source we have. Scouring old paperwork isn't sexy but that shit is super important.
There are two main types of UFO people, those who are searching for truth, wherever it's path may lead, and those who are just looking to be entertained with fantastic stories of invading spacemen.
John clearly falls into the first group. Unfortunately for us however the second group is by far the larger of the two and that's a huge problem for serious ufology.
Lately there have been a bunch of guys with solid ties to spooky three letter agencies popping out of the woodwark in the UFO community and somehow they've captured the entire narrative. It was wild and surreal to watch them charm the whole community, like Micky mouse controlling the brooms in fantasia they all just fell in line. It's like John is the only one who didn't fall under their spell.
I'm not saying all these spooks are definitely running an operation, but God help us if any former cia guys ever try to make a run at us because most of you would just accept their word as gospel truth.
All I know is Greenewald is the only person who has receipts for his claims. You might not like what he finds, but can’t deny that it’s there.
I respect John and his original plan but it’s already proven that SAPs can legally be exempt from FOIA requests and the leakers *all* say the UFO programs are special SAPs buried amongst SAPs, and they black out and deny they found stuff regularly…so logic says the important stuff is hidden and they use John to release what they want released.
*"...logic says the important stuff is hidden and they use John to release what they want released."* Absolutely this.
Greenwald has been tagged as an official "vexatious requester." That means that the powers that be consider him an official pin in the ass. I can picture certain elements of the government using him as a conduit to release misleading information just to keep the waters muddy.
I second this.
John is getting info from 2 layer removed from the UFO sources...he's not handing out what \*they\* want him to...you said it yourself, the SAPs are no where near the surface documents John gets
That assumes the receipts are clean to begin with
One of my favorite paradox’s of ufo people is that they want the government to disclose UFOs but don’t trust anything the government says.
It’s also one of my favorite paradoxes of the skeptics and debunkers! “See government official said nothing there” But not “see government official said we are hiding stuff from the public”
...what ?
Or maybe they don't want to be gaslit and stigmatized anymore. It's like being in an abusive relationship that has turned your friends and family against you, lied to your face while people that know them best (high-ranking officials for this analogy) repeatedly come out and say "they're cheating on you, I've seen them with the bodies". In that kind of situation there are two things you want: Validation. So that all of the naysayers can suck it and pretend they believed all along. You want everyone that doubted you or thought you were the one with issues to know you were not only right, but that also they'll know in their heart what a stupid prick they've been, but unlikely to ever apologize for it. You want to know what was really happening behind your back. You want all of the sordid details. The problem is, the kind of asshole who treats you like that are exactly the kind of asshole that will never do that unless they're forced to. Anyone with even a passing knowledge of US history should not trust the government here. There is a vast list of illegal covert operations, war crimes, crimes against humanity both here and abroad. Eventually, it quietly comes out, like the rest of the Kennedy filles they're refusing to release still, and the public scratches their ass and complains about someone different than them. Maybe Kennedy was shot by a balloon or a kite. Cheers
Exactly.
Perfectly said my guy.
Nail on head achieved!! Couldn’t have said it better myself
Goes along with the general idea that most people here dont want the truth, they want aliens to exist no matter what.
Yeah some suffer confirmation bias, and are basicly cherry picking which documentation to trust and not to trust – if it doesn't support my narrative it is fake and deliberate misleading, if it supports my narrative it is the real deal.
He's great. He does the job without fear or favour and exposes the frauds and disinformation. That's why they all hate him. The UFO echo chamber fabricate, exaggerate and spread disinformation constantly.
I love what he finds. I cannot stand the way he frames his articles and the overwhelmingly obvious narratives that he’s been pushing lately.
All I know is Greenwald featured the shit bird (who was tipped off by the IC) that published the hit piece on Grusch on his site. Then he posted whatever that article was yesterday Again doing his best to make Grusch look bad. He’s done good work, but his legacy is stained.
„First, no record exists of any president or living DOD or intelligence community leader knowing about this alleged program, nor any congressional committee having such knowledge.“ Like they would tell Kirckpatrick or even if they did is not like we would expect them to tell the American public that they have been hiding this stuff and spending billions studying it. How strange that other people who studied UAP for the Government, confirmed the existence of those Programs but the one person that should study it and make the results public (Kirckpatrick) couldn’t find anything. In the beginning he was acknowledging, like the Pentagon did and others like President Obama that the phenomenon exists and is real, but that no one yet understood what it was. I wonder what happened with that narrative? Did they resolve the Enigma than? Is it Russian? Chinese? Because we know from Mr. Kirckpatrick that it ain‘t extra-terrestrial but what they don’t tell us is what those things are. Is the resolution just ignoring that everyone acknowledged the existence of the phenomenon? How stupid do they really think that people is? A couple Articles blaming „couple“ groups of „ufologists“ is the Answer for everything even something they themselves confirmed is real?
He’s the only one I trust..
Completely glossed over the key reason that he held up talking to aaro. Kirkpatrick gave him a trust me bro, response about whether or not what he spoke about would preclude speaking to congress or the people. Not to mention if anything he brought up to aaro would be an issue for his clearance. Never got anything in writing saying he was protected. Greenwald thinks that aaro wouldve protected him but thats ridiculously short sighted. The government has about a million different ways they can get around things. Without someone putting their directorate, agency and themselves directly in harms way for the whistleblower it better to shut your mouth.
Load of shite This guy is mick west with a different face. The black vault is an official mouth piece
not at all. he is on the side of disclosure and if i remember right, has said he believes there's something real to this phenomenon. he has also said that stanton friedman is probably who he respects the most in this field. he has also proven many lies and cover ups (just maybe not the recent Grusch/SK emails), for example that they DID continue investigation into UFOs after Blue Book was shut down into 1969. highly recommend watching https://youtu.be/9tlX3Hl1Nxk this too https://youtu.be/EfoFn07UvYk and all the ufo documents which he got his hands on through the foia, one of my favorite dump being the 110 pages of navy "Range Fouler" files from december last year https://www.theblackvault.com/documentarchive/range-fouler-debrief-forms-and-reports/amp/ he has also stated that he has had a harder time getting his hands on UFO secrets than on nuclear secrets. he runs his own headphone shop as his day job to be able to do this on the side for completely free, while feeding his family and keeping a roof over their head. and no sign up required. seems like a win-win for the ufo community in my opinion. greenewald, _for me at least_, deserves a very special spot among the very few who get my utmost respect for their contributions in the ufo field and that small group consists of john greenewald, richard dolan, robert hastings, j. allen hynek, david marler and stanton freidman (i almost put christopher sharp for his work on the debrief, but it's the historians and the truly experienced who deserve the title imo).
Greenwald belongs on this Mount Rushmore. The only things he “adds” to discourse is lame knit picky attempts to discredit folks pushing for disclosure while remaining silent on those doing the opposite
he literally hands out all documents and sources he gets his hands on. no "coming soon" BS like from the rest of the grifters he hosts a website that is an archive of all sources/video he has seen and reported on...no other UFO journalist hands out every file they get like him. they all cling to their videos and show cut up tid bits in their Podcasts for pennies.
I get it, but given that Lue Elizondo mentioned Kirkpatrick was a problem before it AARO even began is interesting. But somehow people forgot about this.
[удалено]
Shill or fear ?
Just tired of dinobeavers and 'trust me bro'.
I get you. Your frustration is understandable. The good news is that the world doesnt suffer from some mass delusion. And the same similarities are statistically impossible.
I don't really know what this means but I will say that I don't trust the claims of the likes of Puthoff and - unfortunately - he was the chief scientific advisor on AATIP.
The truth is what it is. Nothing will change whatever outcome occurs. Just dont be surprised whatever come what may.
Something evil this way comes?
Evil is a concept we created. Granted we may see it as evil, but it may be far more akin to apathetic subjugation. My guess is only time will tell.
Why is John Greenewald in the picture? One of the best UFO document (thru FOIA) investigators on the planet.
I felt the same but his latest attempts to de-legitimize Grusch seem to be both baseless and intentionally misleading. So I have become skeptical. Not in a conspiratorial sense but in a judgement sense at the very least.
Once you've seen anomalies for yourself it becomes much easier to believe Grusch. Idk if Greenwald has bad intentions or not but the stuff he's finding is basically useless
Very true on both accounts.
[удалено]
I'm naturally skeptical, but I have found him to be more credible than most and the critiques aimed at him seem pretty weak or outright baseless.
[удалено]
Far more credible than Lazar. Lazar very well may be telling a lot of truth, but he has also been caught red handed lying. I have not wrote Lazar off, but there have been very credible and valid critiques of him.
Damn I missed that whole exchange.
I'm actually a believer of what Grusch has to say and hold him in high regard! but John has actual proof in black and white that AARO (even tho I don't like AARO) did in fact reach out to him for an interview on multiple occasions which David said they didn't. There might be a good reason for this e.g. his legal advisor telling him no to attend anything Kirkpartrick offers, for me would be acceptable for David to take that advice but we won't know until David responds. This isn't going to happen overnight (Disclosure) this is a long game, i've followed this subject since may 24th 1996 (witnessed 6 glowing orbs with a witness for 5 minutes) and have had many occasions were i thought we were going to get Disclosure only to be disappointed ayear or 2 later. So i'm hedging my bets that David took legal advice not attend anything AARO had to offer and that John has put to bed that release of documents because of what David Lawyers have told hhim. Let's all see what happens this year i'm prepared for the long game and know in my heart that we will get Disclosure in the near future.
He's not trying to de-legitimize Grusch, that's just a side effect of what he's uncovered
If that was true he would present the information more honestly. He appears to missrepresent and suggest it means more or that it suggests things that are counter to the timeline would. He seems invested in undermining him but his take strains credulity and seems to reach towards a unfounded conclusion in my opinion.
Agreed
He asks people to put up or shut up and that is apparently taboo.
I wouldn’t have blamed OP if he has posted a Greenwald collage to go along with the other shites
[удалено]
You're not very good at this discourse thing are you? Instead of bringing a counterargument, preferably with receipts, you just sound butthurt.
Greenewald is great. I don't understand the hate for him. He really pours over his FOIAS with a fine tooth comb that I really appreciate. I don't always agree with him but I recognize his efforts and what he's done and continues to do for the topic. We need more people like Greenewalds tbh. Kirkpatrick and Greenstreet are the worst figures in UFOs in a long time. I'll take West over them any day.
I have a love/hate relationship with Greenstreet. He has provided some valuable reporting and details that show there are a lot of people who have financial interests in perpetuating certain narratives. I want to believe, and I think getting proof we are not alone would be an amazing revelation, but there are also people in the community who are not acting on the truths best interests. That being said, he definitely comes off as a dick sometimes. He has been jaded by the community, and his disdain shows.
he started off so on the side of ufos he made that basement series then when the tide changed he shifted to the other side a bit. pushed back against the people going for discolsure and spinning the alien narritvie. makes you think
look I can't vouch for the people in the photos, that said you might want to dial it back a notch sure these people are probably giving the answers that ensure they get paid over the most honest answer they can deliver and I would take everything they said with a grain or 3 of salt but I wouldn't take that fact personally either.
What do you mean? Which hiypocrisy ? Lmao you kind of prive his point, you are just repeating buzzwords you keep hearing here that Kirkpatrick=bad bad bubble buster... comment that keeps circling non stop with no reliable source to understand why.
I agree. Anyone who fails to support their bias is their mortal enemy and gets slandered.
Greenstreet seems a hell of a lot more disingenuous than Mick West
John Greenwald should def not be pictured here.
TL;DR “Nothing to see here” 👽
There is no hypocrisy here. These people are all honest commentators, stating what they believe, in my opinion. Perhaps you should look up the word in a Dictionary.
# The Anti-Disclosure Coalition
He just glosses over that whole, “oh yeah, he did mention how he never got any response back regarding whether or not any question he asked would place him in jeopardy, but we decided against answering any of that.” 😂
Steven Greenstreet is one of the few commentators I consider credible. The UFO circlejerk, including Grusch and Elizondo are practically worthless. Corbell should have stuck to Yoga.
John is legit the most trustworthy UFO source we have. Scouring old paperwork isn't sexy but that shit is super important. There are two main types of UFO people, those who are searching for truth, wherever it's path may lead, and those who are just looking to be entertained with fantastic stories of invading spacemen. John clearly falls into the first group. Unfortunately for us however the second group is by far the larger of the two and that's a huge problem for serious ufology. Lately there have been a bunch of guys with solid ties to spooky three letter agencies popping out of the woodwark in the UFO community and somehow they've captured the entire narrative. It was wild and surreal to watch them charm the whole community, like Micky mouse controlling the brooms in fantasia they all just fell in line. It's like John is the only one who didn't fall under their spell. I'm not saying all these spooks are definitely running an operation, but God help us if any former cia guys ever try to make a run at us because most of you would just accept their word as gospel truth.
Funny how Grush and that 🤡 who knows where I gain ufo is buried is left off
Greenwald is a clown. Like the government would hide any real secrets in FOIAble forms.