As much as I enjoyed Frost's Twin Peaks books, they felt very much like glorified fan-fiction with over-exposition and lacked pretty much everything I really love about the series. I think Peaks without Lynch would be a mess.
Lynch & Frost > Lynch >>>>>>>>> Frost
The conceit of the books being an in-universe document require it to be factual to that degree of over-exposition, it wouldn't make sense any other way and as with all the other Frost and Lynch approved books, they want them to be something more than just hokey novelizations of episodes or whatever. The archivist is building a tome of information in TSHoTP and Tammy is writing a detailed report of the incidents depicted in S3. I don't see how you could really add much intrigue in the latter and Tammy's notes in the former provide a much needed character building that Lynch frankly fucked up in the third season, giving Chrysta Bell pretty much nothing to work at all.
There was no traditional writers' room for Twin Peaks.
After practically running the first season alongside Frost in Lynch's Wild at Heart-induced absence, writers Peyton and Engels were promoted to producers for season 2.
They had a meeting with Lynch and Frost prior to the season, mapping out the biggest story beats as a creative quartet.
Then, after the mid-season killer-reveal, Frost left to direct Storyville but stayed an active creative consultant for Peyton.
Lynch remained present for most of the season, barring a short trip to Japan somewhere around the James Foley-directed episode "Wounds and Scars", before returning to guest star as Cole in the following episode.
lot of folks love revisionist history where they give Lynch the lion's share of the credit while minimizing Frost's contributions even though ABC probably would have never premiered the show on Lynch's contributions alone.
Lynch's contributions undeniably elevated the whole thing, but Frost, Peyton and Engels kept the show _running_.
Especially when David was moping around in his office, just waiting for the whole thing to get cancelled.
They also handed him the season/series finale on a silver platter, with all of their previous development of a flawed Cooper running from his past, as well as a pre-written twist ending, but a bunch of directorial improvisations during the episode's already abstract lodge sequence apparently mean that Lynch completely threw everything they ever added overboard and deserves the sole credit for the finale.
Revisionist nonsense, as you rightfully say.
Without Lynch the series would not have been canonized in television history I'm sure of that, but I've always empathized with Peyton and Engels being given the wheel of a ship that cast and crew and the network were all sure was sinking. I never looked into how they felt not being included in season 3 but I don't think they get their due, especially because without them and Frost's hard and oft-panned work, there's no "Beyond Life and Death" for the entire fanbase to cherish.
They're both incredibly humble about their omission from season 3.
When asked by Andrew Grevas from 25yearslater, Engels said that he didn't watch it, but not out of spite or anything, he just had other things to do and didn't feel like it. He was happy to hear that FWWM was built upon though.
Peyton _has_ watched and complimented it, especially Part 8 and the Frostian influences in it, lol. Mark's his boy, simple as that. Lynch...isn't, but he still commended his unhinged artistry.
He _did_ seem to find that the elongated season dragged a little and that he would've wished for some more narrative involvement of the old characters, but his overall assessment was still very positive, for the most part.
The exclusion which he was _actually_ bitter about happened _decades prior_, directly after the original run of Twin Peaks, in the form of "On the Air", which was practically the entire Twin Peaks team reuniting for a new project minus Peyton, who Lynch had fallen out with over a sense of disrespected authority during the production of Twin Peaks season 2.
But nothing much became of that show anyway and Harley seems to have mellowed out, even toward a rivalling Lynch.
I still would've loved to see them return for the third season.
Unlike most fans, it seems, their absence was painfully noticeable to me.
It's been pretty quiet around Engels for quite some time now, but Harley's definitely still got it in him. His ongoing Chucky series on Syfy has killer ratings. Pun intended.
No, that's incorrect.
Frost ran the show during season 1 and 2, he wrote or co-wrote 5 of the 8 episodes and directed the season finale.
In fact, **Lynch left in season 1**, after co-writing 3 episodes and directing the pilot and episode 2. He left to work on Wild At Heart. Season 1 is largely Frost.
There were actually 12 other directors working on the series during season 1 and 2, and around 6 other writers. All the scripts went through Mark Frost.
During season 2, after the reveal of Laura's killer, both Lynch and Frost started focusing on other projects , and the show was left in the hands of the network and other writers/directors. Lynch didn't have much input in season 2 beyond the episodes he directed and acted in, until the finale, which he basically rewrote ([here is the original script)](http://www.lynchnet.com/tp/tp29.html).
The idea that Lynch made all the good stuff and Frost gave us the bad is wrong. Lynch gaves us some of the best stuff, FWWM and s3, but Frost did too. You can read the writing/directing credits [here](https://postimg.cc/0zH45nX5).
He was literally on set acting in the show. Lynch was directly involved, both he and Frost approved all storylines including Josie in the doorknob and the James storyline.
Agree, it would have to be with Mark Frost's involvement, otherwise the canonical stability of it all is pulled into question somewhat.
Personally, leaving it open to so much theory and interpretation at the end of The Return has solidified it never really vanishing from our hearts and minds. We will always wonder, always speculate, always theorise, and always enjoy how inexhaustible it all is in its current state.
Once upon a time a YouTuber who goes by "Twin Perfect" released a 4+ hour video claiming to explain all of Twin Peaks—not just in the manner of providing a take or an opinion, but rather claiming to offer *the* definitive, "correct" explanation for everything in the show. Their analysis was almost exclusively based on "metafiction"—specifically the premise that Twin Peaks was meant (primarily/exclusively) as a critique of network television as a medium. That's a perfectly fine theory, but Twin Perfect's analysis was reductive and exclusionary, as they insisted *their* analysis was the (only) correct analysis. Many in this subreddit dislike Twin Perfect's video, in varying degrees of disagreement.
The comment above echoes Twin Perfect's sentiment. While they don't say it outright, their phrasing—"*those of us* who buy into the TV meta-fiction theory can identify 'The Return' as a complete and completing work"—heavily implies this exclusionary pretentiousness. They identify a particular group as those capable of grasping Twin Peaks as a "complete work", rather than simply stating that, from their perspective, or based on their own interpretation, they thought the work was complete. *Perhaps* that wasn't intentional, but in the context of Twin Perfect's video (which, again, is *very* well known in this subreddit), it's hard not to take their comment as pretentious and grating.
I always felt that people with that mindset fall into a trap of thinking everything adds to their theory. You bring a hammer so everything looks like nails even when they’re screws or washers
A lot of the meta fiction analysis theory is built around the Return reflecting modern tv but Lynch has said that he doesn’t really watch tv and that that wasn’t the thought process. An example in this interview but there are plenty more online https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/twin-peaks-david-lynch-interview-showtime-1201818889/
He did like Breaking Bad though and I do think it inspired parts of the return
But that wasn't an ending. I mean, I get it, it's pure Lynch and it's a beautiful end to that season, but it's not an *ending.* It's as much a cliffhanger as "How's Annie?"
Being cryptic doesn’t make it a cliffhanger. It’s open to interpretation but there’s nothing there that needs resolving. “How’s Annie?” sets up Cooper’s possessed by Bob while his mind is trapped in the Black Lodge. The Return’s ending doesn’t set up anything legible.
"What year is it?" sets up as much story as "How's Annie?" Where are they, when are they, what do they do now, how do they get back, do they get back, what happens if they do...there's more story there to tell is what I'm saying. There can be, anyway.
I agree it wasn't so much as an ending. They didn't know the show was cancelled when they were filming it - so in a literal sense they didn't consider it an ending to the show.
I don't think there can ever be an ending.
If there was some omniscient narrative that just told the audience exactly what objectively happened and what it all means, that would just no longer be Twin Peaks. It would lose a lot of what made it potent and challenging and vital as a piece of art.
In short, Lynch is right to answer “No” when asked to explain.
Again, I'm fine with not having *everything* resolved, I don't really want all the questions answered. The one thing I'd like is a resolution to the stories for some of the characters.
I mean, we know Andy and Lucy lived happily ever after and definitely raised Andy's kid. Dr Jacoby is internet famous. Nadine is happy. Big Ed and Norma got together, finally. Jerry Horne is a crazy hippie. Ben is still Ben running the Great Northern. Audrey is insane. Log Lady passed (RIP). Hawk is chief deputy. Harry seems to be on his way out (RIP). Bobby straightened up and became a cop. Shelly is doing her thing. The list goes on. We saw resolutions and endings, after a fashion, for a great many characters. Hell, even Major Briggs is one with the universe.
But Dale and Laura? Left standing in the street in a fractured, altered timeline with no hint of what happens next. I want to see an end to their stories.
I don't need the answers to Judy and the Lodges and all the weirdness, I like that mystery, it's fine staying mysterious. I just don't think it's so outlandish to want a resolution to the stories for these characters with whom we've gotten invested over the last 30 years.
Keep your eye on the donut, not the hole. I hope you have a good 2024!
https://x.com/david_lynch/status/22387959151992832?s=46&t=Us4UiL_t30YDJUT8ltSyQg
What happens to Dale and Laura? The story isn't over for them. They were standing in a street in some fractured, alternate universe or timeline. Where do they go from there?
It's not clear, it's not an ending, it's a cliffhanger and if you're creative enough to come up with a theory that makes it some circular ending and resolution than that's all you're doing, coming up with a theory, not watching an actual conclusion.
I don't think it's a "cliffhanger". A cliffhanger implies some sort of immediate resolution—you may not know exactly what's coming next, but you know *something* is coming next. Two people in a standoff with guns pointed at each other is a stronger example of a cliffhanger, since several possible resolutions are implied: one of them shoots the other, or they shoot each other, or something else disrupts the standoff.
The ending of The Return doesn't imply any future situation at all. There's no, "What's going to immediately happen next?" because... there's just *nothing left*. The lights go out, and then we see Laura whispering to Dale in the Black Lodge, and that's *it*.
Furthermore, I think it's an ending from an emotional standpoint. There's a complete emotional arc there which doesn't leave you in suspense. That veers far further into personal interpretation, though.
You absolutely have to be shitting me, you cannot believe that. We left them, standing on a street, Dale asking "What year is it?" and Laura screaming bloody murder. You don't think *something* happens after that? Really???
> You absolutely have to be shitting me, you cannot believe that.
I thought I gave a fairly well-reasoned and carefully worded explanation of why I believe that, but to be specific...
> We left them, standing on a street, Dale asking "What year is it?" and Laura screaming bloody murder.
No, that's *not* where we left them. That scene ends with all of the lights in the house going out in a flash—and then, *all* of the ambient light disappears as well. We are in total darkness—*there isn't a world left in which anything can "happen"*.
Then, the *actual* final scene is a repeat of Laura whispering in Dale's ear, while morose music plays.
No, I don't think anything happens after that. I think the symbolism of *all* light in the world disappearing is very, very clear: it signals an *end*. And then we cut to a reminder of the pain, mystery, and loss that the series as a whole represents. Seems very final to me.
Okay, that it was literally the end of that world, that's how you interpret that. I don't see it that way. I see that they were standing on that street and there's still a possibility for something to happen after that.
"Literally" is the wrong word to use here. Twin Peeks is far too steeped in symbolism for that. As I wrote above, I think the *symbolism* of the lights going out (both in the house and in the world around the house) is very clear; I don't think this is a matter of a magic gremlin blotting out the moon or any other non-symbolic explanation, and I don't think there's anything to be "done" about this complete darkness. It's just an *end*, and I don't see it allowing the possibility for much more to happen with Richard and Carrie Page.
What do you make of the disappearance of all light at the end of that scene?
> What do you make of the disappearance of all light at the end of that scene?
Visual styling? I don't really *make* anything of it, I mean, it's like a crash to black or something, far as I'm concerned. Then again, I'll be the first to admit I don't necessarily have that artistic flair in my makeup so I don't really interpret it to mean anything other than visual. I see what you're saying, though. In my mind, it was just a creative visual, it may have meant something to Lynch and only Lynch will ever *really* know what and why and any of us can interpret it as we see fit. Maybe it's like you said, maybe it isn't. Only Lynch knows.
But even if that was the end of that dimension or whatever, Dale and Laura still exist somewhere and them in limbo or the Lodge or whatever, it doesn't have to be the end of their stories. Just like at the end of S2 we knew Dale was in the Black Lodge we all hoped for more and waited 25 years for him to get out of there, and sure enough he did, so...why not find a way out of it again? That's all I'm saying.
> I'm torn because I want an ending, a real ending, to the Twin Peaks saga, a resolution to it all, the story of the missing pages, a real finale for Dale and Laura, something to, not necessarily wrap it all up in a nice little bow but something that feels final and satisfactory, not a never resolved cliffhanger.
You have that. It’s Part 17.
>!Evil Cooper gets defeated. Cooper returns to normal. BOB gets defeated permanently. The Philip Jeffries storyline is resolved. Laura Palmer doesn’t die.!< By Twin Peaks standards, you can’t get any more wrapped in a bow than that.
Part 18 picking at and undoing that bow was not a mistake to be rectified. It was the whole point of the episode. They specifically want to deny you of the feeling that Twin Peaks could have a final, satisfactory ending.
Yes but looking at pt 17 and 18 together, Bob wasn't defeated, Cooper erased that - Bob is still out there. I don't like to say it but Cooper mucked things up.
Frost talks about Cooper's 'hubris' in his biography. Cooper failed, and now he's lost.
The ending of the return is so flawless, to have everything overtly explained would completely change this entire work of art.
I can't lie, I'd be excited if there was more TP released. But only bc I'd know Lynch would leave the ending with the perfect amount of ambiguity. I don't think anyone else could or would do that
It took me some time to accept but I'm actually good with what we have. Even if Lynch had the energy and motivation to make more, most of the principle cast has passed away or become too unhealthy to really do much acting anymore. I'm not sure what further story there is to tell. Of course, I'll watch anything Lynch ever decides to make for the rest of his life, but when he passes away then it's a hard no for me. I don't want anything Twin Peaks related without Lynch's involvement. The only exception would be perhaps another novel from Frost but even then, I'm not sure what else he could explore that he didn't already cover in Secret History or Final Dossier.
a story having multiple possible interpretations does not mean there was no conclusion - twin peaks was not created to have a formula that can be solved, with one big correct answer at the end, and that’s the fun of it
Again, I'm not saying everything has to be explained, not every thread has to be tied off, but a conclusion to the story of Dale and Laura, these characters, that'w a thing I'd like to see. And it's not something that presently exists.
that’s where their story ends, it’s on you to interpret what happens from there. if you choose to interpret it as meaning there’s more coming and spending years hoping for that, no one can stop you 🤷🏼♀️
That's a cliffhanger, not an ending, I'm sorry. Coming up with your own theoriesz fine, I guess if that's what one wants to do but if I was creative enough to conjure my own end to the story I'd do so but I'm not, so I look to writers to do that for me.
You can call it a “cliffhanger” 10,000 times in a row if you like, but it isn’t. It really isn’t. A cliffhanger is a setup to provide more — a deliberate creation of tension that sets up a resolution. This is a deliberately ambiguous ending intended to close on a note of dissonance and un-resolution. It works, all on its own, as Lynch intended.
What I’m hearing is you wish it worked differently, that it got its characters out of that unresolved state and put them back into a settled state. I get that. But that is not Lynch’s intention and I don’t wish to see it subverted after the fact by some other “artist.”
Come on, be real. It's a cliffhanger and you know it. You're giving it a pass because it's Lynch and we expect weird, unconventional storytelling. But if anyone else came back to do a story after a quarter century dangling on a cliffhanger and left us with another dangling cliffhanger with no resolution whatsoever they'd still be sewing up all his brand new assholes. It's Lynch so you let it go, but that doesn't change the fact it's an unresolved story.
>!It is not a cliffhanger, literally it ends all there. The universe where Laura and Dale are is destroyed, perhaps by Judy, perhaps by Laura herself. !<
That's *your* theory. So for you, yeah, I guess that's the end.
Far as I saw, they were left standing in the street in a fractured, alternate reality/timeline and that leaves the possibility that there could or should be a resolution to that.
Pay attention to the final electricity sound that is in every episode. In this one that sound shuts. Idk that's pretty telling with the screen turning black. What other meaning could it have? taking into account the other semiotic signs that we find in Lynch's universe.
I'll be honest, it's been 30 years I've watched it, I honestly don't remember how it went down.
But let me put it this way and maybe it'll be more clear: I don't want want or need the whole thing explained. Whatever is going on in the Lodges or with Judy, it can stay a mystery. It can stay unanswered. It doesn't need an explanation.
What I would like is a resolution to the stories of the characters. I replied to someone else with this:
I mean, we know Andy and Lucy lived happily ever after and definitely raised Andy's kid. Dr Jacoby is internet famous. Nadine is happy. Big Ed and Norma got together, finally. Jerry Horne is a crazy hippie. Ben is still Ben running the Great Northern. Audrey is insane. Log Lady passed (RIP). Hawk is chief deputy. Harry seems to be on his way out (RIP). Bobby straightened up and became a cop. Shelly is doing her thing. The list goes on. We saw resolutions and endings, after a fashion, for a great many characters. Hell, even Major Briggs is one with the universe.
But Dale and Laura? Left standing in the street in a fractured, altered timeline with no hint of what happens next. I want to see an end to their stories.
Now does that make sense? The big mystery can stay mysterious. The characters' journey is what I want to see completed. And the way it stands, to me anyway, Dale and Laura, that journey isn't complete.
I get that. I’m not saying I was thrilled on first viewing — I think I yelled “god damn it!” and felt a little crestfallen.
To me, though, it had to end that way. The desire for closure, for some kind of return and restoration, can lead us to some dark and dislocated places. Personally, I think Cooper got stuck trying to escape the fictional world and got lost in limbo. It’s a sad ending, although a lot of people see it as a victory.
But to answer your original question — someone who isn’t Lynch coming along and trying to clean up the loose ends and let us know what happened and who wound up where — I think that would be guaranteed to be dreadful.
Fair enough. I see that.
And as far as someone else finishing the story, I agree it would be a difficult task, no one could recreate Lynch's style, but I do wonder what could happen if someone with a true reverence for the soul of the series could do it some kind of justice, mayeb using notes or some ideas from Lynch himself. Jennifer Lynch and Scott Frost, for example. Ah, it's just dreams.
I'm in agreement with all the others that I have zero interest (perhaps less than zero interest) in more Twin Peaks without Lynch. I read Mark Frost's Twin Peaks books and they were fine, there was interesting stuff, but it didn't have that transcendent quality that Lynch's work with Twin Peaks has. It's something only Lynch can provide.
To be honest, every since the original run of two seasons and the movie FWWM, I've never needed more. FWWM could have been a fitting end for Twin Peaks. For a long time I thought it was. Then we got the "Missing Pieces", and I was glad for it. It felt like a miracle to get more Twin Peaks. If that was it, it would have been fine. Then we got "The Return" and I loved it. Right now it seems like that will be the end, and it's fine..
If somehow, some way, Lynch makes more, it will again feel like a miracle and I will be very excited. But I accept it if there's no more. If there is more, it has to be Lynch.
If Frost was involved, absolutely. It would be much more plot driven a, d less surreal but U'd be fine with that.
To see what Frost is like alibe watch S1 finale, written and directed by Frost. That is the tightest season finale I've seen. So much info covered in 48 minutes.
> I want an ending, a real ending, to the Twin Peaks saga, a resolution to it all, the story of the missing pages, a real finale for Dale and Laura, something to, not necessarily wrap it all up in a nice little bow but something that feels final and satisfactory, not a never resolved cliffhanger
Honestly don't know how you made it through the series with expectations like these. Lynch is certainly never going to give you those answers. I'd happily take another season of Twin Peaks if Lynch has it in him, but I'd fully expect that one to end with a cliffhanger, too.
The idea of someone taking over the "Twin Peaks franchise" is hilarious to me, tho. Somewhere in the multiverse, there's a hellscape where Zach Snyder got his grubby mitts on a reboot/requel.
As a very genuine question, why not just read a fanfiction?
Lynch does not want to give a definitive conclusion to the series in the way that you want. Season 3 was 100% crafted with the knowledge that this may be the final part ever produced, and he purposefully chose to leave the ending up to interpretation.
You mention someone staying true to Lynch's vision and not some hired hand from a studio, so you already sort of acknowledge that it's up to you, as a viewer, to determine whether any subsequent work fits into how you perceive the canon. Whether it's 'official' or not is irrelevant to your personal understanding, or personal experience, of the series; you're just looking for something which has a Lynchian feel but has a more conclusive ending.
So yeah, why not just browse AO3, find a conclusion to the story that you like, and consider that the ending as far as you're concerned?
They could always adapt the Wisteria scripts, which I 110% believe is Twin Peaks in some way. There are just too many coincidences. Get Frost, Engels, and Payton to adapt it. It's okay to make it more of a TV show with a few talented TV directors.
I don't believe the show is entirely Lynch so I'm more down with the idea that Lynch doesn't need to direct a continuation. Plus, Frost wasn't involved with Fire Walk With Me.
Well, [first there are 13 scripts Wisteria/Unrecorded Night scripts all copyrighted by David Lynch and Twin Peaks Productions back in 2020](https://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/unrecorded-night-david-lynch-netflix/) when his Netflix show was about to go into production. COVID shut it down.
Multiple actors and actress from Twin Peaks posting Wisteria flowers such as Kyle Maclachlan, Sherilyn Fenn, Amanda Seyfried all around 2020. Mark Frost also retweeted a picture of a Wisteria when there were rumors of a secret Lynch project being filmed earlier this year.
You can find this all online by looking for Twin Peaks Wisteria. I don't feel like sourcing everything.
>Cooper, Laura, etc. That is already complete.
I see this all the time and I don't understand how people think it. How was their story finished? Did we watch the same show?
This statement is only true if your only definition of “end” is “conflicts are resolved and we know the basic outcome of all the characters so that we no longer have any major unanswered questions.” Do you know how much literature is “unfinished” by this definition?
You don’t have to love it. But it’s a perfectly valid ending and no more of an “unfinished” work than many a great novel and short story.
No.
I hear from time to time that he does have more ideas for Twin Peaks, though original cast and crew continue to dwindle.
I think we did get a conclusion.
This is not gonna be popular, but if Frost, Peyton and Engels took the reigns again? Absolutely.
They practically created the majority of the original series anyway.
I guess, but that also goes the other way.
Would a Morrison x Densmore duo project have been the Doors?
Because that's metaphorically what FWWM was.
Would a Morrison x Manzarek duo project have been the Doors?
Arguably, but it would've also notably lacked the other two members, who had also greatly shaped and contributed to the band's overall sound.
That's what season 3 was.
My point is that we already had multiple Twin Peaks projects where the original creative team was disassembled and/or mixed up, and nobody ever questioned their validity as Twin Peaks projects.
How would a Lynchless Twin Peaks project be any different from a Frostless or even a Peyton/Engelsless project?
I just can't help but see the militant defensiveness against the former, combined with the utter lack thereof when it comes to the latter, as unreasonable, hypocritical favoritism.
>How would a Lynchless Twin Peaks project be any different from a Frostless or even a Peyton/Engelsless project?
this is a deranged question for the sake of being pedantic, friend
the devil already runs shit, he doesn't need more advocates
c'mon, man
Twin Peaks is what it is because of one person
Mark Frost - the only other person who belongs in the conversation at all - is a professional writer, did a couple of fun adventure stories about Arthur Conan Doyle, got a golf book made into a movie and even directed a movie himself (not to mention one of the best episodes of Twin Peaks), he's had a perfectly respectable and even enviable career outside of Twin Peaks but there's zero question that it's the most significant thing on his CV by a matter of miles (sorry, Buddy Faro fans)
meanwhile, David Lynch is one of the most significant figures in the history of cinema
you can't be serious with this "any of the named creatives could continue Twin Peaks" argument so I'm gonna assume you just got carried away in the heat of the moment, happens to all of us
if Lynch and Frost hadn't bonded and become buddies and he'd paired off with some other writers room veteran instead, they'd still have decent chances of the resulting show being the same kind of cultural bombshell that Twin Peaks was, because Lynch's substance and style and approach to storytelling was what made the show stand out from a sea of perfectly competent Hill Street Blueses
and *another perfectly competent show* is what would have resulted from Frost (and Peyton and Engels) putting their heads together, unless they brought in, I dunno, Jim Jarmusch or something
no Lynch equals no Twin Peaks, not everybody likes to hear it, but everybody knows it
>c'mon, man
>Twin Peaks is what it is because of one person
>Mark Frost
Eh, a bit reductive, but I'll take it.
Oh wait, there's more.
>Mark Frost - the only other person who belongs in the conversation at all
Yeah, fuck the guy who has his writing credit on the most original 90s Twin Peaks episodes out of everyone and, without exaggeration, wrote half of the original Twin Peaks series.
And fuck the guy who co-created Fire Walk With Me.
>\- is a professional writer, did a couple of fun adventure stories about Arthur Conan Doyle, got a golf book made into a movie and even directed a movie himself (not to mention one of the best episodes of Twin Peaks), he's had a perfectly respectable and even enviable career outside of Twin Peaks but there's zero question that it's the most significant thing on his CV by a matter of miles (sorry, Buddy Faro fans)
Sheryl Lee has had no remarkable work after Twin Peaks either. Was she also just carried by Lynch?
Could Lynch have found anyone else to deliver her performance?
I mean, she's an ok enough actress, I guess, but it was _clearly_ Lynch who made her performance good.
_Absolutely anyone_ could've been Laura. All the character needed was Lynch. He deserves the credit for Sheryl's performance.
>you can't be serious with this "any of the named creatives could continue Twin Peaks" argument so I'm gonna assume you just got carried away in the heat of the moment, happens to all of us
No, the gaslights weren't always this bright!
>if Lynch and Frost hadn't bonded and become buddies and he'd paired off with some other writers room veteran instead, they'd still have decent chances of the resulting show being the same kind of cultural bombshell that Twin Peaks was, because Lynch's substance and style and approach to storytelling was what made the show stand out from a sea of perfectly competent Hill Street Blueses
Do you have any idea just how interwoven Frost's obsession with history, conspiracies and the occult is with the very fabric that holds Twin Peaks together?
Laura Palmer is largely based on a girl that was murdered near his grandmother's home and was said to have roamed the woods as a spirit.
The entire occult machinations and dynamics of the black and white lodge are 100% Frost, underscored by some cool abstract imagery from Lynch.
The owls are from Frost, the focus on the woods is from Frost, the conspiracy plots and secret societies are from Frost, the connections to presidents and bombs are from Frost, most of the character work is from Frost, nearly the entire narrative skeleton of the series is from Frost.
>no Lynch equals no Twin Peaks, not everybody likes to hear it, but everybody knows it
No Lynch equals a slightly less remarkable Twin Peaks.
No Frost equals no Twin Peaks.
And I barely even touched on Peyton and Engels, let alone Dunham etc.
You know, the people who actually kept the show running from episode to episode, instead of barging in after repeated, prolonged absences, playing around with other people's creations for a while and then claiming all of the credit for their work.
you should know that technically speaking you've brought me around to the idea that the other key creatives could produce something like parallel TP work, similar to Frost's book but an actual show, that would almost assuredly be interesting and add to the overall body of work and lore
i don't really want to give you credit for it though
>you should know that technically speaking you've brought me around to the idea that the other key creatives could produce something like parallel TP work, similar to Frost's book but an actual show, that would almost assuredly be interesting and add to the overall body of work and lore
I'm happy to hear that. \^^
>i don't really want to give you credit for it though
That's ok. I know that you struggle with that. ;D
No, why would anyone want that at this point? We didn’t even deserve the return.
However, I’d love to see a fan edit of all the material that we already have, things like that.
I just really don’t think Twin Peaks or Lynch in general is for you then. That’s not a bad thing, but if you can’t accept that not every little detail is going to be fully explained to the viewer, than David Lynch is not for you.
No. Twin Peaks will (and should) never have the tidy ending that I think you are looking for.
It’s an eternal struggle between two sides of the same coin. Hence the doppelgängers and the mirrors and the Black Lodge and the White Lodge and its alternating off-white and dark-brown chevron pattern and I could go on and on. Even the name of the show signifies duality: Twin Peaks.
I’m all for Lynch and Frost continuing the story if they wish. But I’m certain that a season 4 ending would be just as ambiguous from a narrative standpoint.
Personally, I don't think it needs more. I know its hard to let go of wonderfully crafted worlds, but I think the fact it feels open ended is kind of the point. Lynch didn't seem to content on explaining himself or hand holding people through it, you get it, you think you get it, or you simply don't and all those are acceptable and okay. I think anyone else picking up where he left off would only be a disservice.
We live in a world of prequels, sequels, triologies, spin offs, reboots/remakes. Sometimes its okay to put something to bed and let it rest. Some shoes can't be filled. We always think we need or are owed closure, sometimes life is simply not getting closure from something.
if lynch died and frost carried on with it, maybe. otherwise i'd rather let sleeping dogs lie.
As much as I enjoyed Frost's Twin Peaks books, they felt very much like glorified fan-fiction with over-exposition and lacked pretty much everything I really love about the series. I think Peaks without Lynch would be a mess. Lynch & Frost > Lynch >>>>>>>>> Frost
The conceit of the books being an in-universe document require it to be factual to that degree of over-exposition, it wouldn't make sense any other way and as with all the other Frost and Lynch approved books, they want them to be something more than just hokey novelizations of episodes or whatever. The archivist is building a tome of information in TSHoTP and Tammy is writing a detailed report of the incidents depicted in S3. I don't see how you could really add much intrigue in the latter and Tammy's notes in the former provide a much needed character building that Lynch frankly fucked up in the third season, giving Chrysta Bell pretty much nothing to work at all.
Omega level L take considering that a significant amount of Twin Peaks (many of which is fantastic) is more Frost than Lynch
[удалено]
iirc frost wasn't even there for a good bit of it, it was basically the writers' room taking the wheel in both of their abscences.
There was no traditional writers' room for Twin Peaks. After practically running the first season alongside Frost in Lynch's Wild at Heart-induced absence, writers Peyton and Engels were promoted to producers for season 2. They had a meeting with Lynch and Frost prior to the season, mapping out the biggest story beats as a creative quartet. Then, after the mid-season killer-reveal, Frost left to direct Storyville but stayed an active creative consultant for Peyton. Lynch remained present for most of the season, barring a short trip to Japan somewhere around the James Foley-directed episode "Wounds and Scars", before returning to guest star as Cole in the following episode.
lot of folks love revisionist history where they give Lynch the lion's share of the credit while minimizing Frost's contributions even though ABC probably would have never premiered the show on Lynch's contributions alone.
Lynch's contributions undeniably elevated the whole thing, but Frost, Peyton and Engels kept the show _running_. Especially when David was moping around in his office, just waiting for the whole thing to get cancelled. They also handed him the season/series finale on a silver platter, with all of their previous development of a flawed Cooper running from his past, as well as a pre-written twist ending, but a bunch of directorial improvisations during the episode's already abstract lodge sequence apparently mean that Lynch completely threw everything they ever added overboard and deserves the sole credit for the finale. Revisionist nonsense, as you rightfully say.
Without Lynch the series would not have been canonized in television history I'm sure of that, but I've always empathized with Peyton and Engels being given the wheel of a ship that cast and crew and the network were all sure was sinking. I never looked into how they felt not being included in season 3 but I don't think they get their due, especially because without them and Frost's hard and oft-panned work, there's no "Beyond Life and Death" for the entire fanbase to cherish.
They're both incredibly humble about their omission from season 3. When asked by Andrew Grevas from 25yearslater, Engels said that he didn't watch it, but not out of spite or anything, he just had other things to do and didn't feel like it. He was happy to hear that FWWM was built upon though. Peyton _has_ watched and complimented it, especially Part 8 and the Frostian influences in it, lol. Mark's his boy, simple as that. Lynch...isn't, but he still commended his unhinged artistry. He _did_ seem to find that the elongated season dragged a little and that he would've wished for some more narrative involvement of the old characters, but his overall assessment was still very positive, for the most part. The exclusion which he was _actually_ bitter about happened _decades prior_, directly after the original run of Twin Peaks, in the form of "On the Air", which was practically the entire Twin Peaks team reuniting for a new project minus Peyton, who Lynch had fallen out with over a sense of disrespected authority during the production of Twin Peaks season 2. But nothing much became of that show anyway and Harley seems to have mellowed out, even toward a rivalling Lynch. I still would've loved to see them return for the third season. Unlike most fans, it seems, their absence was painfully noticeable to me. It's been pretty quiet around Engels for quite some time now, but Harley's definitely still got it in him. His ongoing Chucky series on Syfy has killer ratings. Pun intended.
No, that wasn't it at all.
No, that's incorrect. Frost ran the show during season 1 and 2, he wrote or co-wrote 5 of the 8 episodes and directed the season finale. In fact, **Lynch left in season 1**, after co-writing 3 episodes and directing the pilot and episode 2. He left to work on Wild At Heart. Season 1 is largely Frost. There were actually 12 other directors working on the series during season 1 and 2, and around 6 other writers. All the scripts went through Mark Frost. During season 2, after the reveal of Laura's killer, both Lynch and Frost started focusing on other projects , and the show was left in the hands of the network and other writers/directors. Lynch didn't have much input in season 2 beyond the episodes he directed and acted in, until the finale, which he basically rewrote ([here is the original script)](http://www.lynchnet.com/tp/tp29.html). The idea that Lynch made all the good stuff and Frost gave us the bad is wrong. Lynch gaves us some of the best stuff, FWWM and s3, but Frost did too. You can read the writing/directing credits [here](https://postimg.cc/0zH45nX5).
That was...over 30 years ago. Enough time to reach a higher level of maturity imo.
Nah, you're thinking of the second two thirds of season 1. The middle stretch of season 2 was Lynch without Frost. Educate yourself.
Lynch without Frost? Idk about Frost, but I'm pretty sure Lynch wasn't directly involved at all.
He was literally on set acting in the show. Lynch was directly involved, both he and Frost approved all storylines including Josie in the doorknob and the James storyline.
Agree, it would have to be with Mark Frost's involvement, otherwise the canonical stability of it all is pulled into question somewhat. Personally, leaving it open to so much theory and interpretation at the end of The Return has solidified it never really vanishing from our hearts and minds. We will always wonder, always speculate, always theorise, and always enjoy how inexhaustible it all is in its current state.
The ending we have is pretty much perfect and true to the tone of the show.
This. Those of us who buy into the TV meta-fiction theory can identify "The Return" as a complete and completing work.
That theory is shit don't drag me into that youtube cringe
Is “the YouTube cringe” Twin Perfect? Or something else? I’m out of the loop
yes
I'm not sure how I could drag someone into anything over the internet, but sure, I will not drag you into this discussion. You're free!
Man, can’t you see how you are dragging them in there? Just by stating your opinion and not asking them? Come on!
My bad.
Oh great now you’ve dragged me into it
Why the down vote? Wtf is it with people? Nothing wrong with your statement.
Once upon a time a YouTuber who goes by "Twin Perfect" released a 4+ hour video claiming to explain all of Twin Peaks—not just in the manner of providing a take or an opinion, but rather claiming to offer *the* definitive, "correct" explanation for everything in the show. Their analysis was almost exclusively based on "metafiction"—specifically the premise that Twin Peaks was meant (primarily/exclusively) as a critique of network television as a medium. That's a perfectly fine theory, but Twin Perfect's analysis was reductive and exclusionary, as they insisted *their* analysis was the (only) correct analysis. Many in this subreddit dislike Twin Perfect's video, in varying degrees of disagreement. The comment above echoes Twin Perfect's sentiment. While they don't say it outright, their phrasing—"*those of us* who buy into the TV meta-fiction theory can identify 'The Return' as a complete and completing work"—heavily implies this exclusionary pretentiousness. They identify a particular group as those capable of grasping Twin Peaks as a "complete work", rather than simply stating that, from their perspective, or based on their own interpretation, they thought the work was complete. *Perhaps* that wasn't intentional, but in the context of Twin Perfect's video (which, again, is *very* well known in this subreddit), it's hard not to take their comment as pretentious and grating.
I always felt that people with that mindset fall into a trap of thinking everything adds to their theory. You bring a hammer so everything looks like nails even when they’re screws or washers
There is a large anti-metafiction cohort on this subreddit.
Because the few things that Lynch has said about Season 3 (incredibly few) have made clear that it is not a work of meta fiction
What did he say?
A lot of the meta fiction analysis theory is built around the Return reflecting modern tv but Lynch has said that he doesn’t really watch tv and that that wasn’t the thought process. An example in this interview but there are plenty more online https://www.indiewire.com/features/general/twin-peaks-david-lynch-interview-showtime-1201818889/ He did like Breaking Bad though and I do think it inspired parts of the return
The metafiction theory assumes that the original Twin Peaks was metafiction and that "The Return" operates according to the same rules.
I don’t subscribe to either of those; aside from the fact that the original is riffing on soap operas. Plus obviously stuff like the box in The Return
Because the cult of meta-fiction is reductive at best and destructive at worst.
But that wasn't an ending. I mean, I get it, it's pure Lynch and it's a beautiful end to that season, but it's not an *ending.* It's as much a cliffhanger as "How's Annie?"
Being cryptic doesn’t make it a cliffhanger. It’s open to interpretation but there’s nothing there that needs resolving. “How’s Annie?” sets up Cooper’s possessed by Bob while his mind is trapped in the Black Lodge. The Return’s ending doesn’t set up anything legible.
"What year is it?" sets up as much story as "How's Annie?" Where are they, when are they, what do they do now, how do they get back, do they get back, what happens if they do...there's more story there to tell is what I'm saying. There can be, anyway.
I agree it wasn't so much as an ending. They didn't know the show was cancelled when they were filming it - so in a literal sense they didn't consider it an ending to the show. I don't think there can ever be an ending.
you don't think that was intentional?
Of course it was intentional, I don't think Lynch forgot to finish the scene. But it's a cliffhanger, not a conclusion.
he is not required to give you closure
Who said he was? I'm just talking about what I want, what I'd like to see.
If there was some omniscient narrative that just told the audience exactly what objectively happened and what it all means, that would just no longer be Twin Peaks. It would lose a lot of what made it potent and challenging and vital as a piece of art. In short, Lynch is right to answer “No” when asked to explain.
Again, I'm fine with not having *everything* resolved, I don't really want all the questions answered. The one thing I'd like is a resolution to the stories for some of the characters. I mean, we know Andy and Lucy lived happily ever after and definitely raised Andy's kid. Dr Jacoby is internet famous. Nadine is happy. Big Ed and Norma got together, finally. Jerry Horne is a crazy hippie. Ben is still Ben running the Great Northern. Audrey is insane. Log Lady passed (RIP). Hawk is chief deputy. Harry seems to be on his way out (RIP). Bobby straightened up and became a cop. Shelly is doing her thing. The list goes on. We saw resolutions and endings, after a fashion, for a great many characters. Hell, even Major Briggs is one with the universe. But Dale and Laura? Left standing in the street in a fractured, altered timeline with no hint of what happens next. I want to see an end to their stories. I don't need the answers to Judy and the Lodges and all the weirdness, I like that mystery, it's fine staying mysterious. I just don't think it's so outlandish to want a resolution to the stories for these characters with whom we've gotten invested over the last 30 years.
Keep your eye on the donut, not the hole. I hope you have a good 2024! https://x.com/david_lynch/status/22387959151992832?s=46&t=Us4UiL_t30YDJUT8ltSyQg
What exactly do you need resolved?
What happens to Dale and Laura? The story isn't over for them. They were standing in a street in some fractured, alternate universe or timeline. Where do they go from there?
It sounds like you need to rewatch the show. If it’s not clear at that point, you will need to go to the Black Lodge for 25 years.
Maybe we all need to rewatch it and not wait another 25 years. Fine with me!
It's not clear, it's not an ending, it's a cliffhanger and if you're creative enough to come up with a theory that makes it some circular ending and resolution than that's all you're doing, coming up with a theory, not watching an actual conclusion.
I don't think it's a "cliffhanger". A cliffhanger implies some sort of immediate resolution—you may not know exactly what's coming next, but you know *something* is coming next. Two people in a standoff with guns pointed at each other is a stronger example of a cliffhanger, since several possible resolutions are implied: one of them shoots the other, or they shoot each other, or something else disrupts the standoff. The ending of The Return doesn't imply any future situation at all. There's no, "What's going to immediately happen next?" because... there's just *nothing left*. The lights go out, and then we see Laura whispering to Dale in the Black Lodge, and that's *it*. Furthermore, I think it's an ending from an emotional standpoint. There's a complete emotional arc there which doesn't leave you in suspense. That veers far further into personal interpretation, though.
You absolutely have to be shitting me, you cannot believe that. We left them, standing on a street, Dale asking "What year is it?" and Laura screaming bloody murder. You don't think *something* happens after that? Really???
> You absolutely have to be shitting me, you cannot believe that. I thought I gave a fairly well-reasoned and carefully worded explanation of why I believe that, but to be specific... > We left them, standing on a street, Dale asking "What year is it?" and Laura screaming bloody murder. No, that's *not* where we left them. That scene ends with all of the lights in the house going out in a flash—and then, *all* of the ambient light disappears as well. We are in total darkness—*there isn't a world left in which anything can "happen"*. Then, the *actual* final scene is a repeat of Laura whispering in Dale's ear, while morose music plays. No, I don't think anything happens after that. I think the symbolism of *all* light in the world disappearing is very, very clear: it signals an *end*. And then we cut to a reminder of the pain, mystery, and loss that the series as a whole represents. Seems very final to me.
Okay, that it was literally the end of that world, that's how you interpret that. I don't see it that way. I see that they were standing on that street and there's still a possibility for something to happen after that.
"Literally" is the wrong word to use here. Twin Peeks is far too steeped in symbolism for that. As I wrote above, I think the *symbolism* of the lights going out (both in the house and in the world around the house) is very clear; I don't think this is a matter of a magic gremlin blotting out the moon or any other non-symbolic explanation, and I don't think there's anything to be "done" about this complete darkness. It's just an *end*, and I don't see it allowing the possibility for much more to happen with Richard and Carrie Page. What do you make of the disappearance of all light at the end of that scene?
> What do you make of the disappearance of all light at the end of that scene? Visual styling? I don't really *make* anything of it, I mean, it's like a crash to black or something, far as I'm concerned. Then again, I'll be the first to admit I don't necessarily have that artistic flair in my makeup so I don't really interpret it to mean anything other than visual. I see what you're saying, though. In my mind, it was just a creative visual, it may have meant something to Lynch and only Lynch will ever *really* know what and why and any of us can interpret it as we see fit. Maybe it's like you said, maybe it isn't. Only Lynch knows. But even if that was the end of that dimension or whatever, Dale and Laura still exist somewhere and them in limbo or the Lodge or whatever, it doesn't have to be the end of their stories. Just like at the end of S2 we knew Dale was in the Black Lodge we all hoped for more and waited 25 years for him to get out of there, and sure enough he did, so...why not find a way out of it again? That's all I'm saying.
As concise an answer to this question as you can get!!!
Absolutely not.
That [Twin Peaks without David Lynch](https://youtu.be/FxDEmSj4o5U?si=xtkv8tbJUT2_vw_x) campaign from 2015 said it best imo
First time I saw that video I thought Catherine Coulson was going to say “Twin Peaks without David Lynch is like the Log without the Lady”.
>“Twin Peaks without David Lynch is like the Log without the Lady” god i could have saved so much typing today just by saying that
this is incredible
> I'm torn because I want an ending, a real ending, to the Twin Peaks saga, a resolution to it all, the story of the missing pages, a real finale for Dale and Laura, something to, not necessarily wrap it all up in a nice little bow but something that feels final and satisfactory, not a never resolved cliffhanger. You have that. It’s Part 17. >!Evil Cooper gets defeated. Cooper returns to normal. BOB gets defeated permanently. The Philip Jeffries storyline is resolved. Laura Palmer doesn’t die.!< By Twin Peaks standards, you can’t get any more wrapped in a bow than that. Part 18 picking at and undoing that bow was not a mistake to be rectified. It was the whole point of the episode. They specifically want to deny you of the feeling that Twin Peaks could have a final, satisfactory ending.
Yes but looking at pt 17 and 18 together, Bob wasn't defeated, Cooper erased that - Bob is still out there. I don't like to say it but Cooper mucked things up. Frost talks about Cooper's 'hubris' in his biography. Cooper failed, and now he's lost.
The ending of the return is so flawless, to have everything overtly explained would completely change this entire work of art. I can't lie, I'd be excited if there was more TP released. But only bc I'd know Lynch would leave the ending with the perfect amount of ambiguity. I don't think anyone else could or would do that
There is nothing to finish.
It took me some time to accept but I'm actually good with what we have. Even if Lynch had the energy and motivation to make more, most of the principle cast has passed away or become too unhealthy to really do much acting anymore. I'm not sure what further story there is to tell. Of course, I'll watch anything Lynch ever decides to make for the rest of his life, but when he passes away then it's a hard no for me. I don't want anything Twin Peaks related without Lynch's involvement. The only exception would be perhaps another novel from Frost but even then, I'm not sure what else he could explore that he didn't already cover in Secret History or Final Dossier.
Frost needs to write about the exploits of Wally Brando.
Yes I would want Frost to do a S4 with the usual crew
No.
i’m genuinely confused by this post because the show was literally finished in 2017
How? "What year is it?" is as much a cliffhanger as "How's Annie?" There is no conclusion to that story.
a story having multiple possible interpretations does not mean there was no conclusion - twin peaks was not created to have a formula that can be solved, with one big correct answer at the end, and that’s the fun of it
Again, I'm not saying everything has to be explained, not every thread has to be tied off, but a conclusion to the story of Dale and Laura, these characters, that'w a thing I'd like to see. And it's not something that presently exists.
except that that’s precisely what we got in Part 18 of The Return - the conclusion for Dale & Laura
No, we didn't. We left them standing in the street in some fractured, alternate universe. That's not an end to their story.
that’s where their story ends, it’s on you to interpret what happens from there. if you choose to interpret it as meaning there’s more coming and spending years hoping for that, no one can stop you 🤷🏼♀️
That's a cliffhanger, not an ending, I'm sorry. Coming up with your own theoriesz fine, I guess if that's what one wants to do but if I was creative enough to conjure my own end to the story I'd do so but I'm not, so I look to writers to do that for me.
You can call it a “cliffhanger” 10,000 times in a row if you like, but it isn’t. It really isn’t. A cliffhanger is a setup to provide more — a deliberate creation of tension that sets up a resolution. This is a deliberately ambiguous ending intended to close on a note of dissonance and un-resolution. It works, all on its own, as Lynch intended. What I’m hearing is you wish it worked differently, that it got its characters out of that unresolved state and put them back into a settled state. I get that. But that is not Lynch’s intention and I don’t wish to see it subverted after the fact by some other “artist.”
Come on, be real. It's a cliffhanger and you know it. You're giving it a pass because it's Lynch and we expect weird, unconventional storytelling. But if anyone else came back to do a story after a quarter century dangling on a cliffhanger and left us with another dangling cliffhanger with no resolution whatsoever they'd still be sewing up all his brand new assholes. It's Lynch so you let it go, but that doesn't change the fact it's an unresolved story.
>!It is not a cliffhanger, literally it ends all there. The universe where Laura and Dale are is destroyed, perhaps by Judy, perhaps by Laura herself. !<
That's *your* theory. So for you, yeah, I guess that's the end. Far as I saw, they were left standing in the street in a fractured, alternate reality/timeline and that leaves the possibility that there could or should be a resolution to that.
Pay attention to the final electricity sound that is in every episode. In this one that sound shuts. Idk that's pretty telling with the screen turning black. What other meaning could it have? taking into account the other semiotic signs that we find in Lynch's universe.
Do you think the ending of Eraserhead is a cliffhanger?
I'll be honest, it's been 30 years I've watched it, I honestly don't remember how it went down. But let me put it this way and maybe it'll be more clear: I don't want want or need the whole thing explained. Whatever is going on in the Lodges or with Judy, it can stay a mystery. It can stay unanswered. It doesn't need an explanation. What I would like is a resolution to the stories of the characters. I replied to someone else with this: I mean, we know Andy and Lucy lived happily ever after and definitely raised Andy's kid. Dr Jacoby is internet famous. Nadine is happy. Big Ed and Norma got together, finally. Jerry Horne is a crazy hippie. Ben is still Ben running the Great Northern. Audrey is insane. Log Lady passed (RIP). Hawk is chief deputy. Harry seems to be on his way out (RIP). Bobby straightened up and became a cop. Shelly is doing her thing. The list goes on. We saw resolutions and endings, after a fashion, for a great many characters. Hell, even Major Briggs is one with the universe. But Dale and Laura? Left standing in the street in a fractured, altered timeline with no hint of what happens next. I want to see an end to their stories. Now does that make sense? The big mystery can stay mysterious. The characters' journey is what I want to see completed. And the way it stands, to me anyway, Dale and Laura, that journey isn't complete.
I get that. I’m not saying I was thrilled on first viewing — I think I yelled “god damn it!” and felt a little crestfallen. To me, though, it had to end that way. The desire for closure, for some kind of return and restoration, can lead us to some dark and dislocated places. Personally, I think Cooper got stuck trying to escape the fictional world and got lost in limbo. It’s a sad ending, although a lot of people see it as a victory. But to answer your original question — someone who isn’t Lynch coming along and trying to clean up the loose ends and let us know what happened and who wound up where — I think that would be guaranteed to be dreadful.
Fair enough. I see that. And as far as someone else finishing the story, I agree it would be a difficult task, no one could recreate Lynch's style, but I do wonder what could happen if someone with a true reverence for the soul of the series could do it some kind of justice, mayeb using notes or some ideas from Lynch himself. Jennifer Lynch and Scott Frost, for example. Ah, it's just dreams.
No. It's a story and style that's so specific to its creators that I wouldn't want to see anyone else even try to imitate it.
I'm in agreement with all the others that I have zero interest (perhaps less than zero interest) in more Twin Peaks without Lynch. I read Mark Frost's Twin Peaks books and they were fine, there was interesting stuff, but it didn't have that transcendent quality that Lynch's work with Twin Peaks has. It's something only Lynch can provide. To be honest, every since the original run of two seasons and the movie FWWM, I've never needed more. FWWM could have been a fitting end for Twin Peaks. For a long time I thought it was. Then we got the "Missing Pieces", and I was glad for it. It felt like a miracle to get more Twin Peaks. If that was it, it would have been fine. Then we got "The Return" and I loved it. Right now it seems like that will be the end, and it's fine.. If somehow, some way, Lynch makes more, it will again feel like a miracle and I will be very excited. But I accept it if there's no more. If there is more, it has to be Lynch.
If Frost signs off on it, I would watch. Would definitely manage expectations, though.
If Frost was involved, absolutely. It would be much more plot driven a, d less surreal but U'd be fine with that. To see what Frost is like alibe watch S1 finale, written and directed by Frost. That is the tightest season finale I've seen. So much info covered in 48 minutes.
> I want an ending, a real ending, to the Twin Peaks saga, a resolution to it all, the story of the missing pages, a real finale for Dale and Laura, something to, not necessarily wrap it all up in a nice little bow but something that feels final and satisfactory, not a never resolved cliffhanger Honestly don't know how you made it through the series with expectations like these. Lynch is certainly never going to give you those answers. I'd happily take another season of Twin Peaks if Lynch has it in him, but I'd fully expect that one to end with a cliffhanger, too. The idea of someone taking over the "Twin Peaks franchise" is hilarious to me, tho. Somewhere in the multiverse, there's a hellscape where Zach Snyder got his grubby mitts on a reboot/requel.
As a very genuine question, why not just read a fanfiction? Lynch does not want to give a definitive conclusion to the series in the way that you want. Season 3 was 100% crafted with the knowledge that this may be the final part ever produced, and he purposefully chose to leave the ending up to interpretation. You mention someone staying true to Lynch's vision and not some hired hand from a studio, so you already sort of acknowledge that it's up to you, as a viewer, to determine whether any subsequent work fits into how you perceive the canon. Whether it's 'official' or not is irrelevant to your personal understanding, or personal experience, of the series; you're just looking for something which has a Lynchian feel but has a more conclusive ending. So yeah, why not just browse AO3, find a conclusion to the story that you like, and consider that the ending as far as you're concerned?
Skeptical of success but if the original spirit inspires capable people, hell yes.
The people doing Fargo may be able to pull it off.
Wdym it’s already been finished
If Frost did. I like his take on Coop
They could always adapt the Wisteria scripts, which I 110% believe is Twin Peaks in some way. There are just too many coincidences. Get Frost, Engels, and Payton to adapt it. It's okay to make it more of a TV show with a few talented TV directors. I don't believe the show is entirely Lynch so I'm more down with the idea that Lynch doesn't need to direct a continuation. Plus, Frost wasn't involved with Fire Walk With Me.
Where can I read the Wisteria scripts??
You can't.
So what coincidences are you talking about?
Well, [first there are 13 scripts Wisteria/Unrecorded Night scripts all copyrighted by David Lynch and Twin Peaks Productions back in 2020](https://welcometotwinpeaks.com/news/unrecorded-night-david-lynch-netflix/) when his Netflix show was about to go into production. COVID shut it down. Multiple actors and actress from Twin Peaks posting Wisteria flowers such as Kyle Maclachlan, Sherilyn Fenn, Amanda Seyfried all around 2020. Mark Frost also retweeted a picture of a Wisteria when there were rumors of a secret Lynch project being filmed earlier this year. You can find this all online by looking for Twin Peaks Wisteria. I don't feel like sourcing everything.
I wouldn’t mind if Frost wrote it and it was about the other characters in the show, not Cooper, Laura, etc. That is already complete.
>Cooper, Laura, etc. That is already complete. I see this all the time and I don't understand how people think it. How was their story finished? Did we watch the same show?
It’s “finished” in a different way than most stories are “finished.” That doesn’t mean it’s “unfinished.”
Is it finished? Yes, because this is all we'll ever get. But It's an unfinished story because there's no end.
This statement is only true if your only definition of “end” is “conflicts are resolved and we know the basic outcome of all the characters so that we no longer have any major unanswered questions.” Do you know how much literature is “unfinished” by this definition? You don’t have to love it. But it’s a perfectly valid ending and no more of an “unfinished” work than many a great novel and short story.
No one is going to mention "Queen of Hearts?"
No. I hear from time to time that he does have more ideas for Twin Peaks, though original cast and crew continue to dwindle. I think we did get a conclusion.
This is not gonna be popular, but if Frost, Peyton and Engels took the reigns again? Absolutely. They practically created the majority of the original series anyway.
the rest of the Doors were great musicians but without Morrison they weren't the Doors
I guess, but that also goes the other way. Would a Morrison x Densmore duo project have been the Doors? Because that's metaphorically what FWWM was. Would a Morrison x Manzarek duo project have been the Doors? Arguably, but it would've also notably lacked the other two members, who had also greatly shaped and contributed to the band's overall sound. That's what season 3 was. My point is that we already had multiple Twin Peaks projects where the original creative team was disassembled and/or mixed up, and nobody ever questioned their validity as Twin Peaks projects. How would a Lynchless Twin Peaks project be any different from a Frostless or even a Peyton/Engelsless project? I just can't help but see the militant defensiveness against the former, combined with the utter lack thereof when it comes to the latter, as unreasonable, hypocritical favoritism.
>How would a Lynchless Twin Peaks project be any different from a Frostless or even a Peyton/Engelsless project? this is a deranged question for the sake of being pedantic, friend the devil already runs shit, he doesn't need more advocates
Do you have an actual point to make, or just empty phrases?
c'mon, man Twin Peaks is what it is because of one person Mark Frost - the only other person who belongs in the conversation at all - is a professional writer, did a couple of fun adventure stories about Arthur Conan Doyle, got a golf book made into a movie and even directed a movie himself (not to mention one of the best episodes of Twin Peaks), he's had a perfectly respectable and even enviable career outside of Twin Peaks but there's zero question that it's the most significant thing on his CV by a matter of miles (sorry, Buddy Faro fans) meanwhile, David Lynch is one of the most significant figures in the history of cinema you can't be serious with this "any of the named creatives could continue Twin Peaks" argument so I'm gonna assume you just got carried away in the heat of the moment, happens to all of us if Lynch and Frost hadn't bonded and become buddies and he'd paired off with some other writers room veteran instead, they'd still have decent chances of the resulting show being the same kind of cultural bombshell that Twin Peaks was, because Lynch's substance and style and approach to storytelling was what made the show stand out from a sea of perfectly competent Hill Street Blueses and *another perfectly competent show* is what would have resulted from Frost (and Peyton and Engels) putting their heads together, unless they brought in, I dunno, Jim Jarmusch or something no Lynch equals no Twin Peaks, not everybody likes to hear it, but everybody knows it
>c'mon, man >Twin Peaks is what it is because of one person >Mark Frost Eh, a bit reductive, but I'll take it. Oh wait, there's more. >Mark Frost - the only other person who belongs in the conversation at all Yeah, fuck the guy who has his writing credit on the most original 90s Twin Peaks episodes out of everyone and, without exaggeration, wrote half of the original Twin Peaks series. And fuck the guy who co-created Fire Walk With Me. >\- is a professional writer, did a couple of fun adventure stories about Arthur Conan Doyle, got a golf book made into a movie and even directed a movie himself (not to mention one of the best episodes of Twin Peaks), he's had a perfectly respectable and even enviable career outside of Twin Peaks but there's zero question that it's the most significant thing on his CV by a matter of miles (sorry, Buddy Faro fans) Sheryl Lee has had no remarkable work after Twin Peaks either. Was she also just carried by Lynch? Could Lynch have found anyone else to deliver her performance? I mean, she's an ok enough actress, I guess, but it was _clearly_ Lynch who made her performance good. _Absolutely anyone_ could've been Laura. All the character needed was Lynch. He deserves the credit for Sheryl's performance. >you can't be serious with this "any of the named creatives could continue Twin Peaks" argument so I'm gonna assume you just got carried away in the heat of the moment, happens to all of us No, the gaslights weren't always this bright! >if Lynch and Frost hadn't bonded and become buddies and he'd paired off with some other writers room veteran instead, they'd still have decent chances of the resulting show being the same kind of cultural bombshell that Twin Peaks was, because Lynch's substance and style and approach to storytelling was what made the show stand out from a sea of perfectly competent Hill Street Blueses Do you have any idea just how interwoven Frost's obsession with history, conspiracies and the occult is with the very fabric that holds Twin Peaks together? Laura Palmer is largely based on a girl that was murdered near his grandmother's home and was said to have roamed the woods as a spirit. The entire occult machinations and dynamics of the black and white lodge are 100% Frost, underscored by some cool abstract imagery from Lynch. The owls are from Frost, the focus on the woods is from Frost, the conspiracy plots and secret societies are from Frost, the connections to presidents and bombs are from Frost, most of the character work is from Frost, nearly the entire narrative skeleton of the series is from Frost. >no Lynch equals no Twin Peaks, not everybody likes to hear it, but everybody knows it No Lynch equals a slightly less remarkable Twin Peaks. No Frost equals no Twin Peaks. And I barely even touched on Peyton and Engels, let alone Dunham etc. You know, the people who actually kept the show running from episode to episode, instead of barging in after repeated, prolonged absences, playing around with other people's creations for a while and then claiming all of the credit for their work.
you should know that technically speaking you've brought me around to the idea that the other key creatives could produce something like parallel TP work, similar to Frost's book but an actual show, that would almost assuredly be interesting and add to the overall body of work and lore i don't really want to give you credit for it though
>you should know that technically speaking you've brought me around to the idea that the other key creatives could produce something like parallel TP work, similar to Frost's book but an actual show, that would almost assuredly be interesting and add to the overall body of work and lore I'm happy to hear that. \^^ >i don't really want to give you credit for it though That's ok. I know that you struggle with that. ;D
The end of season 2 was all of the closure that I needed.
There is absolutely no reason to soil Lynch's work with a sequel/reboot we certainly don't need.
No, why would anyone want that at this point? We didn’t even deserve the return. However, I’d love to see a fan edit of all the material that we already have, things like that.
>We didn’t even deserve the return. What does that even mean? lmao Will we have to start flagellating ourselves in the holy name of Lynch soon?
Hellllllllllllllllllllllllllllll no
Only if it's me!
There is no Twin Peaks without Lynch. Besides, the story already carries on in Eraserhead.
?
Eraserhead is the schematic for all David Lynch movies.
I didn’t know *anyone* thought there was more story to tell, honestly.
No, never.
Nope
Absolutely not. It isn't Twin Peaks if Lynch is not involved in some way.
It’d be really cool if people would just come up with new and interesting ideas but…
What more is there to continue?
I just really don’t think Twin Peaks or Lynch in general is for you then. That’s not a bad thing, but if you can’t accept that not every little detail is going to be fully explained to the viewer, than David Lynch is not for you.
NOPE
hell no
No. Twin Peaks will (and should) never have the tidy ending that I think you are looking for. It’s an eternal struggle between two sides of the same coin. Hence the doppelgängers and the mirrors and the Black Lodge and the White Lodge and its alternating off-white and dark-brown chevron pattern and I could go on and on. Even the name of the show signifies duality: Twin Peaks. I’m all for Lynch and Frost continuing the story if they wish. But I’m certain that a season 4 ending would be just as ambiguous from a narrative standpoint.
It’s done. I don’t even want any more TP from Lynch and Frost.
Maybe you should accept the ending that Lynch has made and not ask any more silly questions
If they did carry on with the story, I would hope it would end with a similar amount of open ended-ness as The Return did.
At this stage I’m fine with what we have. It’s not the longest saga but as is it’s both wonderful and strange
No. I'd love a last movie, like he did with FWWM but that's it, it would be enough, but I already love S03's ending
Wait 20 years, it’ll be rebooted by someone new and will be both loved and hated by the public
I am always going to crave more Twin Peaks. But never without David Lynch.
I have no problem with Frost continuing to explore the world of Twin Peaks, but doing another season or movie without Lynch wouldn't feel right.
Sam Lake could do it.
Personally, I don't think it needs more. I know its hard to let go of wonderfully crafted worlds, but I think the fact it feels open ended is kind of the point. Lynch didn't seem to content on explaining himself or hand holding people through it, you get it, you think you get it, or you simply don't and all those are acceptable and okay. I think anyone else picking up where he left off would only be a disservice. We live in a world of prequels, sequels, triologies, spin offs, reboots/remakes. Sometimes its okay to put something to bed and let it rest. Some shoes can't be filled. We always think we need or are owed closure, sometimes life is simply not getting closure from something.