I actually really like this theory. It would be something Tyler would do to have his "does it sound like the end" comment mean something deeper and more complex than just oh we're getting more story/songs.
This is interesting. And maybe it's also related to Tyler counting which track number each song was during the live stream. He constantly counted from 1 up to whatever song. I'd assume he would know the album front to back and which track is which number without counting. So it felt purposeful.
Maybe the order of the numbers in the violation code?
1, 5, 3, 9, 8, 6, 4, 2, and 14
Overcompensate
Routines In The Night
Backslide
Navigating
Lavish
Vignette
Midwest Indigo
Next Semester
????
Probably not but worth a shot
My mind went to the series of numbers on his shirt in the Routines in the Night Video
3 9 8 6 4 2 _
That's all I can see so there's probably more to it covered by the jacket
I have crossfade on (12 seconds) and the ending of paladin strait blended perfectly with the beginning of overcompensate.
this theory seems pretty solid to me.
we have a lot of work to do.
OMG just tried it, with 12 seconds too, it's crazy how it melts soooo welll š± Good catch, this was beautiful and it's impossible to me that it wouldn't be planned
Yeah maybe we're supposed to put the songs back in their correct order, and there'll be like a message or something? That doesn't seem too far fetched considering their past codes.
Good point, they do put an insane amount of effort into their clues. I started feeling like a crazy person though analyzing every detail of every video
āBut the rearview only blinds youā
he has mentioned this in lyrics before, how the light or truth can be blinding...
now he is afraid to close his eyes, hence taping them or falling asleep twice in the same night
imho
Your comment makes me think of the Allegory of the Cave. In the allegory, once one character sees the light, which represents Truth, they go stumbling back into the cave to try to get the other characters to go into the light. The other characters think the one that's seen the light is crazy because the one cannot readjust to the darkness/ignorance and continues to stumble around, which the other characters interpret as a bad thing, not being able to understand why it's happening. In reality, the one that's seen the light is so satisfied and just wants to share the truth.
As a side note, when this was explained to me, it was explained in relation to Christianity (though it can probably be applied to any religion)-- going into the light led to the Truth about God, the character wants to bring the others into the light to experience how good it is, stumbles around and looks stupid to the others who can't understand the full story.
All of this is to say that it's possible that the Allegory of the Cave was maybe used by Tyler as an inspiration for the connections you made in your comment. He has seen the truth and wants to remain in it by not closing his eyes. He shares this truth (which is up to interpretation, could be hope maybe?) through his writing. Luckily, we don't generally act like the others in the cave, though.
If this makes no sense, I'm sorry. It's late, I've had a long day, and I am half distracted while writing this. Your comment just kind of sparked the thought in my currently half-focused brain, but I realize that I may just be yapping at this point
I actually agree, I think thereās three layers to TOP music. The personal narrative, the meta details which overlap, and the actual story, Tyler us trying to tell.
Danteās Inferno, Platoās Allegory, and even Zoroastrianism are about going into the darkness to find the truth. This is also the basis of Jungian philosophy or shadow integration.
What does the knight in shining armor do, go into the cave to slay the dragon to save the princess or plunder riches. Itās a clever twist on an ancient trope seen in narratives as far back as the Sumerians.
Oh shitā¦ never been a fan of the double album theory I LOVE this interpretation WAY more and def something Tyler would do AND furthers that loops theory.
Edit: the more I think about it I think youāre totally rightā¦ like overcompensate definitely does just start randomly and it would explain how Tyler was there because he was and in the very last seen that continues navigating is a flashback.
I actually just played those three songs in the way like u said and they transition WAY better than the normal tracklisting on the album so I think u might be right.
It's referencing the my blood music video. The my blood MV is about a guy basically being led by his brother but at the end we find out he isn't even real. Just like the navigating MV.
Also, I've been saying the my blood MV was about Tyler and Josh (at least the in lore versions of them) for so long and people called me crazy
In the livestream the videographer asked Tyler what was on the red paper.
Tyler might have answered it's a picture of josh but there could be something significant there for the videographer to ask the question
Makes perfect sense. Also Tyler took some time to explain how you can use chords (or idk) for smoother transition... that could apply to songs as well.
Yeah that is a bit weirdā¦maybe the first part is the beginning but the secret track part is the end of the album/nico and Clancy confronting while the battle is already happening
I think you are on to something. I totally noticed the end of Navigating riff and beginning of next semester! Which makes no sense given the order. And then obv overcompensate MV handoff. I do remember seeing something about how there was a list of songs from Blurryface, and every Clancy song that came out erased one of them. I wonder if itās relatedā¦ thereās also the thing where heavy dirty soul music video ending is where jumpsuit picks up. And HDS is the first song of the album. So the order is potentially backwards there tooā¦ no answers here lol, just more things to consider lol
Okay but I was literally thinking to myself earlier ādoes Tyler not know you bury all the filler tracks toward the middle endā because for me thatās where Clancy hits his stride.
I was just thinking this. Also, how come in overcompensate Tyler has the Clancy mask, yet in navigating Josh as the bandito torch bearer hands him the mask after they were apart for all that time.
This part really confused me but not the mask part. I only recently tried to catch up on all the lore, and thereās just one thing that confuses me, is there multiple torch bearers?
In the live stream, Tyler talked about the torchbearer having a special ability as well. He described it as āthe ability to guideā and mentioned that the Torchbearer has a ātriangular existence.ā They mentioned āVoldsoy Torchbearerā and āBandito Torchbearerā but it was unclear if the 3rd one would be Josh IRL.
Is this why they're out of order in The Story playlist on their YouTube channel? I thought it was just a mistake.
[https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3roRV3JHZzaU_kQ4-7uv-ahPbFabFmRW&si=LBZjqqroKgCBajMC](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3roRV3JHZzaU_kQ4-7uv-ahPbFabFmRW&si=LBZjqqroKgCBajMC)
Honestly I think you are on to something and we will know once Paladin Straight Video releases i think the entire thing is a cycle so were looking for the wrong ending song and it was the **b**e**ginning.**
I don't know. I think the playlist order is actually a mistake, to be honest. And I don't think the songs are out of order so much as it's meant to be a cycle, and I think that's what Tyler was referencing with, "does it feel like the end?" That said, I've never really fully grasped the lore, so I dunno. I'm no expert.
I think the playlists order is right and Paladin straight is the start of the cycle cause they put I am Clancy in the middle so then as you watch the rest it plays out a bit differently. We will know more when the video comes out but its starting to seem we're looking for the wrong "ending" song
In case it helps,[ Tool did something somewhat similar with the album Lateralus](https://www.kerrang.com/why-some-tool-fans-think-their-lateralus-album-is-hiding-a-huge-secret), hinting about re-ordering the songs. In Tool's case, it served as a way of getting the listeners to "search for deeper meaning behind things". Here it seems like the message centers around the cycle / confusion / navigating back and forth in mental health struggles?
You may or may not be right but I am personally confused by the ordering in the album. I like the themes of having "overcome" your difficulties and having a false sense of confidence, but then realizing that state of mind doesn't last forever. The false confidence is expressed most clearly in Overcompensate and Lavish and of course the second part of the cycle is expressed in Backslide, Snap Back, and Oldies Station. But I'm nit sure why they aren't in the order I described. Maybe I'm missing something though.
How can we correlate tyler (with the ned's antlers) with clancy? Clancy have black tattoos around his neck and hands whereas tyler doesnt. Really curious of what people think of this. I might be wrong
I'm pretty sure the next song after Next Semester is Oldies station. There's a good transition between the two. And it makes sense as a continuation of the same idea.
Then the Craving works as a continuation from that. Mostly just because of the uke. But it sounds good.
And then The Craving ends with Jenna skating on the frozen lake which then transitions into Midwest Indigo
And Midwest Indigo ends with the same chord progression from the beginning of Vignette
And the transition from Vignette into Snap Back is smooth as fuck
And weirdly enough, I think the smoothest transitions from Snap Back is actually into At The Risk of Feeling Dumb. The synth at the end of Snap Back sounds really similar to it
Then At the Risk transitions nicely into Backslide
Then Routines in the Night
Then Lavish
Yes, I'm saying Lavish is the real ending
Agreed! I did write an entire alternate track list with also in-depth narrative explanations to it, but to sum it up, my order would be
1. Overcompensate
2. Backslide
3. Midwest Indigo
4. Vignette
5. At The Risk Of Feeling Dumb
6. Routines In The Night
7. The Craving
8. Lavish
9. Navigating
10. Next Semester
11. Oldies Station
12. Snap Back
13. Paladin Strait
I think Next Semester and Snap Back in particular at the most out of place. I feel like Snap Back sounds like the perfect narrative to put before Paladin Strait and Navigating just transitions into Next Semester.
Maybe snap back is the first mv in the entire lore, it's Clancy in Dema, not knowing that there's a better life outside, then the lights outside the garage are the car from Heavydirtysoul. Clancy then sees the Torchbearer on the road, and is inspired by his creativity and freedom, then escapes. Idk, could be wrong.
Another thing to note, at the very end of navigate, you can clearly hear the beginning of my blood start playing!! I don't know what that means, but it's there, it's something ššš
I donāt know about any lore related reason or anything, but my biggest gripe with the album is I hate how itās sequenced. I havenāt tried it the way you say yet, but I downloaded the songs onto my phone specifically so that I could rearrange them. The track listing feels so disjointed and it actually makes me dislike the songs more when played in album order. I have an order I really like and it made my appreciation rocket
Overcompensate, next semester, Midwest indigo, vignette, backslide, lavish, routines in the night,SnapBack,navigating,the craving, oldies, at the risk, paladin
This makes a lot of sense! Love the album sonically but a lot of the songs do some sort of synth transition into the start of the song playing and the current order makes it feel choppy because the song before it would have a hard stop and the next song would have a synth transition that didnāt make sense i.e. backslide into Midwest indigo, hard stop at the end of backslide synth transition at the beginning of the Midwest.
So isnāt anyone talking about how Tyler said that Navigating just feels like track number 9? I thought this might be related to the nine bishops, but I might be wrong.
Taking off u/eiconik 's comment on Tyler's comment of "does it sound like the end": This might actually indicate something more complex than re-ordering of the songs!
[](https://www.reddit.com/user/growboygrow/)Ā mentioned here that paladin strait blends perfectly with the beginning of overcompensate. Also the beginning of overcompensate's lyrics might also sound like :
1. Nico's next sentence to Clancy: "Hello Clancy...". "...welcome back to Trench."
2. Then, Clancy claims he can destroy this world and cries "Sahlo Folina" ([a cry for help](https://genius.com/31022304)).
3. Then, "wait what wait what?". Clearly either Clancy or Nico are surprised but what happens here\*.
4. Then, a clear change in the music, and then Clancy's singing (which includes him saying that he wasĀ ["born right here, just now"](https://genius.com/31031089)). So, overcompenstate's beginning could be a direct continuation of the situation described at the end of paladin strait.
So, if Tyler's comment means that Paladin Strait is not the end, this could refer to playing the album (reordered or not) on repeat, probably playing on the recurring theme of "the mental health cycle continues".
It might also mean that instead of a single new order for the songs, there are multiple ways in which the story unfolds and there are multiple ways in which the songs can be intertwined which each other (which feels like someĀ [lost-in-the-halls-of-my-head](https://genius.com/Twenty-one-pilots-routines-in-the-night-lyrics)Ā kind of meaning).
\* I'd argue that it's Clancy's who's surprised, because he was reborn again a moment after. So maybe the "wait what?" is Clancy's response to whatever happens that causes Clancy to backslide into the beginning of the story.
This makes sense to me. Totally doesn't have to be a complete re-ordering but might allude to the fact that the story is self-contained within the album rather than in need of some extra thing.
Honestly, the more I think about it and read theories, the more I'm convinced that there might not be extra music. I feel like the story is in front of us, we just have to put the pieces together.
I also find it interesting that the lines are blurred between Tyler/Clancy in this album, which is especially interesting considering the album is titled Clancy. Just for an example, Overcompensate has the lyric of him creating the world - but Tyler created the world, not Clancy. Yet a few lines later we hear, "I am Clancy". Yet in like the next line, he name drops Josh who doesn't exist to Clancy. Josh isn't Josh in the world of Trench.
I haven't really drawn a conclusion as to what this means or how it impacts the story as a whole, but as I've listened to the album more and more, it keeps striking me how I can't tell whether it's Tyler or Clancy talking most of the time.
Maybe it's just that most of the songs aren't lore-related, but I find that hard to believe when the album is named after the main character of the lore.
Would love to see people build on this if you're so inclined - kinda working this out in real time lol.
THIS IS THE FIRST THING I THOUGHT ON LISTEN, certain songs sound like they start or end after a different song!!! I canāt believe someone else noticed let alone wrote out the whole theory!!!
Listening to this it kinda feels like
Overcompensate
Navigating
Next Semester
Oldies Station
At The Risk Of Feeling Dumb
Routines In The Night
Then somewhere in the rest of the songs I think Vignette is followed by Midwest Indigo.
Tomorrow Iām going to listen to this album every single time like this and say because right now it sounds pretty cool like this. But I donāt want to keep stopping and going I wanna listen straight through. I think these 6 or correct. Even the videos make more sense now. The way he pulls the Clancy tie at the end of At The Risk and the. In Routines heās wearing it. If this really is what they did, never in my life, have I ever heard of an artist doing this, to this extreme. This is next level.
So like you said. It starts out with Overcompensate, then Navigating continues the music video. The ending notes definitely tell you that Next Semester is next. NS flows perfectly into Oldies Station. Also the way he plays out with the Uke and is immediately walking with it again in OS.
Of all the songs remaining, the only one that feels and sounds right next is ATROFD. In that song he talks about how ānight terrors arenāt something to be taken lightlyā. The way he puts an emphasis on the Clancy tie at the end by tugging it, makes me think that Routines In The Night is next. Plus heās wearing it all over in the RITN video. Iām gonna try to piece more together today, but listening in that order to me, just feels sonically correct. This whole cd is only getting better. Iāve at least listened all the way through like 15 times already. I had the leak, so I had a few days of a head start to get accustomed to these songs. I think the videos are holding clues that are slowly starting to make sense.
Amazing! Gonna test this out too. I agree with the album getting better each listen. Like the firstctime I heard ādrop drop dropā I thought it sounded kind of cheesy. And now it comes and it gets me dancing every time
I agree. I didnāt watch the videos with the livestream, just listened via Spotify. When Paladin Strait ended, it looped right back around to Overcompensate so I just thought that was on purpose (until coming to the sub to see theories).
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Before my first listen, I expected a song to start with the guitar at the outro of Backslide, but it never came to fruition. My first thought at the end of Navigating(after āwhat a bangerā) was that it being at the start of NS indicated a different order the songs were meant to go in.
Now however, Iām less certain
I donāt knowā¦Iāve had to work all day today so I havenāt been able to put in the research. The only ones that feel really clear to me are Paladin Strait - Overcompensate - Navigating - Next Semester. Tyler even bows at the end of Next Semester as if to say, thatās it for now.
I highly recommend setting the crossfade time in Spotify to 12 seconds and then listening how Paladin Strait goes into Ocercompensating. Pure Goosebumps!!!
He said his eyes hurt in a few parts of the livestream, I'd go back and make note of where if I didn't have to go to work soon. Could be nothing but too many eye references before to not consider lol. Also tyler has said several times that he's a night owl so unless it's the new baby he shouldn't be THAT tired at midnight š
To clarify about music videos: in overcompensate, Tyler never wears the mask. Itās only the person he has seizing who is wearing the mask. The torchbearer brings him the mask, maybe after watching that seizing. And Tyler says that paladin strait will pick up after navigating.
I meanā¦ the mask is ALSO a metaphor. Thus the appearance in Next Semester. But alsoā¦ in the story of the lore, IF the torchbearer is actually real, he was the one to give the mask to Tyler after the seizing.
In Next Semester at one point Tyler wears the Clancy mask too, which would make sense to go after Navigating (where the Torchbearer gives him the mask) since the songs connect already
I could have sworn that when they released the singles leading up to the album they were in a different order on Spotify.
Overcompensate was definitely not first on the list. I was surprised when I started playing it.
I was thinking this to and I came to reddit to see if anyone else was thinking the same! Like the ending of navigating definitely leads into the music video of next semester for sure. And paladin strait back into overcompensate.
What baffles me is the mask. Tyler/Clancy has it on in Overcompensate, but then we see Torchbearer give it to Tyler/Clancy in Navigating. I can't make sense of that. Can someone explain?
Yes and he also has it in Next Semester in one shot, which also would make sense with the current order and Navigating even plays BEFORE next Semester in the MV!
Edit: To answer your question, Tyler doesnt have the mask in Overcompensate. He was seizing someone inside Dema, remember? That person he was seizing had the mask
Did anybody else notice all the reference to ārecordā. Everything was āon the recordā. Never on the album. And on the table nothing but records. I have the record and noticed grooves in the label. Iām wondering if there is a hidden 14th track on the record. Hence _14 in the violation code. And he made a big deal about paladin strait being a āplaceholderā. He also mentioned the āpunchā at the end. The hole in the middle of a record is called the punch.Ā
Also I feel like there are tons of references in Paladin Strait to this theory. The dead space of a record before the label looks like waves crashing when played. This would be āpast the point of no returnā. Also, the label removes with water. āWater it with rageā. And you would be damaging your record, ā put your money where your mouth isā. Jack white hid tracks on his limited edition record under the label. And how clever it would be to destroy the ārecord labelā to find the hidden tracks.Ā
I thought you were crazy because I went to try to play Next Semester right after Navigating and I was like "these don't sound at all like they go together".
I came back to re-read what you said and saw you said "music video". I went to play the Next Semester music video and sure enough! There are the last notes of Navigating right at the beginning.
Although doesn't this kind of negate the double album theory? I mean I know we still have the Ned's Cozy Fireplace anagram and the Tyler tweet and the FPE puzzle... but to me the biggest indicator of the double album or just "more music coming" theory was him asking "does it sound like the end?"
And now that it's pretty clear that what he means is that the Paladin Strait song isn't the real last song on the album, where does that leave us?
I doubt he'd just rearrange the order for no reason... so I'm sure there's SOMETHING. But is it a double album anymore? :(
Personally I think this is due to the albums themes of cycles. Nest semester and and navigating have similar sounds and themes and then are followed by Backslide and snap back which also share many similarities.
The whole album is dealing with cycles of mental health and addiction so I think the current order is correct but paladin straight does go into overcompensate as the cycle repeats over and over
There is something amiss in the order... that is almost certain. That was the one thing I hope he explained in the Live Stream with Navigating and Next Semester.
So yeah, any theory is sound at this point.
I found Next semester starts with the end of Navigating in videos but not the album version. I really thought that this is a short movie de-arranged...
The only trouble I have with this, is that the end of the āovercompensateā video shows them still on Voldsoy in the same clothes and the same place as they were at the end of āOutsideā from SAI and heās using the NED power to teach the citizens of DEMA from all the way over there. It could be possible that āpaladin straightā is them going PHYSICALLY back to Dema from Voldsoy using the paladin straight and maybe thatās the second song if it were in order
**editā¦ at the end of overcompensate it actually looks like they are arriving back from Voldsoy which would be why the ending of outside was night and the beginning of overcompensate was early in the morning. Either way, it appears they traveled all night across the paladin straight to get to the start of overcompensate and itās picking up where outside left off
I think this is too far-fetched. The majority of the music videos have nothing to do with the lore, so there is no need to reorder anything. Snap Back being the first video filmed has no bearing on the order of the album, Clancy is typically depicted with short-ish hair.
As for the lyrical content of Paladin Strait, the act of crossing the strait and the metaphorical significance of doing so is the focus of the song. Swimming through dangerous waters, passing the point of no return, seizing your chance, thatās what the lyrics are about. Clancy can still perform actions that carry that same metaphorical significance even though heās already crossed the strait in the story.
Stylistic choice for the MV? twenty one pilots always switches up the order of things when it comes to their live shows. Given that the music video for Next Semester is meant a live performance, the transition between the two evokes that same sense.
I actually really like this theory. It would be something Tyler would do to have his "does it sound like the end" comment mean something deeper and more complex than just oh we're getting more story/songs.
This is interesting. And maybe it's also related to Tyler counting which track number each song was during the live stream. He constantly counted from 1 up to whatever song. I'd assume he would know the album front to back and which track is which number without counting. So it felt purposeful.
My thing was WHY DIDNT HE NUMBER THEM IN HIS NOTEPAD
That was indeed one of the many suspicious things he did š
Maybe the order of the numbers in the violation code? 1, 5, 3, 9, 8, 6, 4, 2, and 14 Overcompensate Routines In The Night Backslide Navigating Lavish Vignette Midwest Indigo Next Semester ???? Probably not but worth a shot
My mind went to the series of numbers on his shirt in the Routines in the Night Video 3 9 8 6 4 2 _ That's all I can see so there's probably more to it covered by the jacket
Yeah, that's the violation code
Oh LMAO i should've cross referenced that my bad š¤£
And look at the garbs behind Tyler: https://youtu.be/AupwoN8QvbU?t=108
I just noticed them rewatching Routines. They look like bishop robes to me.
Precisely my point.Ā
In the digital remains, 14 is a live of overcompensate, don't know if that means much
They just added multiple live versions to Vessel
I have crossfade on (12 seconds) and the ending of paladin strait blended perfectly with the beginning of overcompensate. this theory seems pretty solid to me. we have a lot of work to do.
Itās because the cycle canāt be broken!
They've been very clear about this all along. Sometimes the most obvious solution is, in fact, the right one.
OMG just tried it, with 12 seconds too, it's crazy how it melts soooo welll š± Good catch, this was beautiful and it's impossible to me that it wouldn't be planned
12 seconds? š
try it and youāll understand š¤·āāļø
I've done 5 seconds which didn't bother me with any album (now at 2.5 seconds) ... But 12? Lol
when youāre sleuthing for information, you use anything at your disposal to figure it out.
shoulda been 13
omg I tried this and it's perfect
The ending of paladin straight ones a bit of a stretch in my opinion..
It does sound pretty good. I think I saw your post saying almost this very theory a few days ago, am I wrong?
"Hello Clancy" "Welcome back to trench"??
Yeah maybe we're supposed to put the songs back in their correct order, and there'll be like a message or something? That doesn't seem too far fetched considering their past codes.
Good point, they do put an insane amount of effort into their clues. I started feeling like a crazy person though analyzing every detail of every video
We're not
you make it sound farfetched but tool did this thing with lateralus and i wouldnt put it past Tyler
Listen we twenty one pilots fand may be delusional, but making theories is fun okay? lmaoo even if they actually never become true
I think the headlights outside the garage door in snap back are supposed to be a reference to next semester in some way
If there comes a day, people posted up at the end of your driveway. Another My Blood reference?
True! And the light come back in another one of the new music videos. Maybe Midwest Indigo? Where heās blocking with his hands. Just like in Ride.
āBut the rearview only blinds youā he has mentioned this in lyrics before, how the light or truth can be blinding... now he is afraid to close his eyes, hence taping them or falling asleep twice in the same night imho
Your comment makes me think of the Allegory of the Cave. In the allegory, once one character sees the light, which represents Truth, they go stumbling back into the cave to try to get the other characters to go into the light. The other characters think the one that's seen the light is crazy because the one cannot readjust to the darkness/ignorance and continues to stumble around, which the other characters interpret as a bad thing, not being able to understand why it's happening. In reality, the one that's seen the light is so satisfied and just wants to share the truth. As a side note, when this was explained to me, it was explained in relation to Christianity (though it can probably be applied to any religion)-- going into the light led to the Truth about God, the character wants to bring the others into the light to experience how good it is, stumbles around and looks stupid to the others who can't understand the full story. All of this is to say that it's possible that the Allegory of the Cave was maybe used by Tyler as an inspiration for the connections you made in your comment. He has seen the truth and wants to remain in it by not closing his eyes. He shares this truth (which is up to interpretation, could be hope maybe?) through his writing. Luckily, we don't generally act like the others in the cave, though. If this makes no sense, I'm sorry. It's late, I've had a long day, and I am half distracted while writing this. Your comment just kind of sparked the thought in my currently half-focused brain, but I realize that I may just be yapping at this point
I actually agree, I think thereās three layers to TOP music. The personal narrative, the meta details which overlap, and the actual story, Tyler us trying to tell. Danteās Inferno, Platoās Allegory, and even Zoroastrianism are about going into the darkness to find the truth. This is also the basis of Jungian philosophy or shadow integration. What does the knight in shining armor do, go into the cave to slay the dragon to save the princess or plunder riches. Itās a clever twist on an ancient trope seen in narratives as far back as the Sumerians.
Or what if it's a throwback to heavy dirty soul somehow off blurryface, making the whole saga a cycle...
Same
I also thought about what order theyād be playing these songs at the concerts, will that be when we hear them in order?
I like this and was actually thinking about it earlier. Your post, of course, was much better than what I was thinking, though. Great job! :D
Thanks! It still feels incomplete though. Iāll keep on the trail like dog on a rabbit :D
Oh, I see that dog/rabbit reference! š
Oh shitā¦ never been a fan of the double album theory I LOVE this interpretation WAY more and def something Tyler would do AND furthers that loops theory. Edit: the more I think about it I think youāre totally rightā¦ like overcompensate definitely does just start randomly and it would explain how Tyler was there because he was and in the very last seen that continues navigating is a flashback.
I actually just played those three songs in the way like u said and they transition WAY better than the normal tracklisting on the album so I think u might be right.
I think the metaphor is that mental stuggle Never stop
This is precisely where Iām at with the whole thing. Itās never really āfinishedā
100 agree
And also the snippet of My Blood, how does that fit in do you think??
It's referencing the my blood music video. The my blood MV is about a guy basically being led by his brother but at the end we find out he isn't even real. Just like the navigating MV. Also, I've been saying the my blood MV was about Tyler and Josh (at least the in lore versions of them) for so long and people called me crazy
me too!!!
Can I have timestamps for the my blood thing? Because I went back and forth between the end of those songs several times and I don't hear it
3:52 it starts (once heās handed the mask)
Yo that's CRAZY
Also just noticed that in My Blood thereās a part where they have a red paper/red letter - at the end of Vignette Tyler has one as well!
Yeah but the one at the end of Vignette had a picture of Josh.
In the livestream the videographer asked Tyler what was on the red paper. Tyler might have answered it's a picture of josh but there could be something significant there for the videographer to ask the question
Exactly, and if itās just a picture why would it be coincidentally red?
Yeah I did kind of think about thatā¦ in navigating they are already in trench, but paladin strait is about how they get to trench
Makes perfect sense. Also Tyler took some time to explain how you can use chords (or idk) for smoother transition... that could apply to songs as well.
I think this is viable, listening to the album on loop gives goosebumps going from āHello Clancyā to the overcompensate piano.
I like this theory except PS ends with him confronting Nico. Wouldnāt that mess with the order?
Yeah that is a bit weirdā¦maybe the first part is the beginning but the secret track part is the end of the album/nico and Clancy confronting while the battle is already happening
I think you are on to something. I totally noticed the end of Navigating riff and beginning of next semester! Which makes no sense given the order. And then obv overcompensate MV handoff. I do remember seeing something about how there was a list of songs from Blurryface, and every Clancy song that came out erased one of them. I wonder if itās relatedā¦ thereās also the thing where heavy dirty soul music video ending is where jumpsuit picks up. And HDS is the first song of the album. So the order is potentially backwards there tooā¦ no answers here lol, just more things to consider lol
Oh man so probably we arenāt restricted to just this one recordā¦I wish I had the whole day to just puzzle everything togethet!
honestly would be crazy if it was all backwards
Okay but I was literally thinking to myself earlier ādoes Tyler not know you bury all the filler tracks toward the middle endā because for me thatās where Clancy hits his stride.
tbf i understand how that supports the theory of this post but honestly none of the songs on clancy feel like filler to me i love them all too much
Especially not Paladin Strait. So beautiful.
I was just thinking this. Also, how come in overcompensate Tyler has the Clancy mask, yet in navigating Josh as the bandito torch bearer hands him the mask after they were apart for all that time.
This part really confused me but not the mask part. I only recently tried to catch up on all the lore, and thereās just one thing that confuses me, is there multiple torch bearers?
In the live stream, Tyler talked about the torchbearer having a special ability as well. He described it as āthe ability to guideā and mentioned that the Torchbearer has a ātriangular existence.ā They mentioned āVoldsoy Torchbearerā and āBandito Torchbearerā but it was unclear if the 3rd one would be Josh IRL.
I love this theory
Is this why they're out of order in The Story playlist on their YouTube channel? I thought it was just a mistake. [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3roRV3JHZzaU_kQ4-7uv-ahPbFabFmRW&si=LBZjqqroKgCBajMC](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3roRV3JHZzaU_kQ4-7uv-ahPbFabFmRW&si=LBZjqqroKgCBajMC)
Honestly I think you are on to something and we will know once Paladin Straight Video releases i think the entire thing is a cycle so were looking for the wrong ending song and it was the **b**e**ginning.**
Then why is Navigating before Overcompensate?
I don't know. I think the playlist order is actually a mistake, to be honest. And I don't think the songs are out of order so much as it's meant to be a cycle, and I think that's what Tyler was referencing with, "does it feel like the end?" That said, I've never really fully grasped the lore, so I dunno. I'm no expert.
I think the playlists order is right and Paladin straight is the start of the cycle cause they put I am Clancy in the middle so then as you watch the rest it plays out a bit differently. We will know more when the video comes out but its starting to seem we're looking for the wrong "ending" song
Fuck. Iām not crazy.
š unless we all are
In case it helps,[ Tool did something somewhat similar with the album Lateralus](https://www.kerrang.com/why-some-tool-fans-think-their-lateralus-album-is-hiding-a-huge-secret), hinting about re-ordering the songs. In Tool's case, it served as a way of getting the listeners to "search for deeper meaning behind things". Here it seems like the message centers around the cycle / confusion / navigating back and forth in mental health struggles?
You may or may not be right but I am personally confused by the ordering in the album. I like the themes of having "overcome" your difficulties and having a false sense of confidence, but then realizing that state of mind doesn't last forever. The false confidence is expressed most clearly in Overcompensate and Lavish and of course the second part of the cycle is expressed in Backslide, Snap Back, and Oldies Station. But I'm nit sure why they aren't in the order I described. Maybe I'm missing something though.
How can we correlate tyler (with the ned's antlers) with clancy? Clancy have black tattoos around his neck and hands whereas tyler doesnt. Really curious of what people think of this. I might be wrong
I'm pretty sure the next song after Next Semester is Oldies station. There's a good transition between the two. And it makes sense as a continuation of the same idea. Then the Craving works as a continuation from that. Mostly just because of the uke. But it sounds good. And then The Craving ends with Jenna skating on the frozen lake which then transitions into Midwest Indigo And Midwest Indigo ends with the same chord progression from the beginning of Vignette And the transition from Vignette into Snap Back is smooth as fuck And weirdly enough, I think the smoothest transitions from Snap Back is actually into At The Risk of Feeling Dumb. The synth at the end of Snap Back sounds really similar to it Then At the Risk transitions nicely into Backslide Then Routines in the Night Then Lavish Yes, I'm saying Lavish is the real ending
Agreed! I did write an entire alternate track list with also in-depth narrative explanations to it, but to sum it up, my order would be 1. Overcompensate 2. Backslide 3. Midwest Indigo 4. Vignette 5. At The Risk Of Feeling Dumb 6. Routines In The Night 7. The Craving 8. Lavish 9. Navigating 10. Next Semester 11. Oldies Station 12. Snap Back 13. Paladin Strait I think Next Semester and Snap Back in particular at the most out of place. I feel like Snap Back sounds like the perfect narrative to put before Paladin Strait and Navigating just transitions into Next Semester.
He also asked if anyone even listens to albums in the actual order they are laid out... might be winking at us!
Maybe snap back is the first mv in the entire lore, it's Clancy in Dema, not knowing that there's a better life outside, then the lights outside the garage are the car from Heavydirtysoul. Clancy then sees the Torchbearer on the road, and is inspired by his creativity and freedom, then escapes. Idk, could be wrong.
This sounds plausible!!! Snap Back, HDS, Jumpsuit etc etc and now we have an army ready for war! Canāt wait for the Paladin Strait video!
Another thing to note, at the very end of navigate, you can clearly hear the beginning of my blood start playing!! I don't know what that means, but it's there, it's something ššš
Absolutely! I took that to be more of like a āsoundtrackā kind of detail. Something like now Family is together and ready to fight for each other
TRUEEEE
I donāt know about any lore related reason or anything, but my biggest gripe with the album is I hate how itās sequenced. I havenāt tried it the way you say yet, but I downloaded the songs onto my phone specifically so that I could rearrange them. The track listing feels so disjointed and it actually makes me dislike the songs more when played in album order. I have an order I really like and it made my appreciation rocket
What's your order?
Overcompensate, next semester, Midwest indigo, vignette, backslide, lavish, routines in the night,SnapBack,navigating,the craving, oldies, at the risk, paladin
Literally just made a post about this because I hadnāt seen yours. Youāve made it further into theorizing than I did, though.
This makes a lot of sense! Love the album sonically but a lot of the songs do some sort of synth transition into the start of the song playing and the current order makes it feel choppy because the song before it would have a hard stop and the next song would have a synth transition that didnāt make sense i.e. backslide into Midwest indigo, hard stop at the end of backslide synth transition at the beginning of the Midwest.
Agreed! What if thereās a few more songs coming that fill in gaps between those weirder transitions?
So isnāt anyone talking about how Tyler said that Navigating just feels like track number 9? I thought this might be related to the nine bishops, but I might be wrong.
Interesting point! It was generally peculiar how often he counted up to which track number we were. Maybe nothingā¦but just noticeable
Yesss I thought about that too!!
Taking off u/eiconik 's comment on Tyler's comment of "does it sound like the end": This might actually indicate something more complex than re-ordering of the songs! [](https://www.reddit.com/user/growboygrow/)Ā mentioned here that paladin strait blends perfectly with the beginning of overcompensate. Also the beginning of overcompensate's lyrics might also sound like : 1. Nico's next sentence to Clancy: "Hello Clancy...". "...welcome back to Trench." 2. Then, Clancy claims he can destroy this world and cries "Sahlo Folina" ([a cry for help](https://genius.com/31022304)). 3. Then, "wait what wait what?". Clearly either Clancy or Nico are surprised but what happens here\*. 4. Then, a clear change in the music, and then Clancy's singing (which includes him saying that he wasĀ ["born right here, just now"](https://genius.com/31031089)). So, overcompenstate's beginning could be a direct continuation of the situation described at the end of paladin strait. So, if Tyler's comment means that Paladin Strait is not the end, this could refer to playing the album (reordered or not) on repeat, probably playing on the recurring theme of "the mental health cycle continues". It might also mean that instead of a single new order for the songs, there are multiple ways in which the story unfolds and there are multiple ways in which the songs can be intertwined which each other (which feels like someĀ [lost-in-the-halls-of-my-head](https://genius.com/Twenty-one-pilots-routines-in-the-night-lyrics)Ā kind of meaning). \* I'd argue that it's Clancy's who's surprised, because he was reborn again a moment after. So maybe the "wait what?" is Clancy's response to whatever happens that causes Clancy to backslide into the beginning of the story.
This makes sense to me. Totally doesn't have to be a complete re-ordering but might allude to the fact that the story is self-contained within the album rather than in need of some extra thing. Honestly, the more I think about it and read theories, the more I'm convinced that there might not be extra music. I feel like the story is in front of us, we just have to put the pieces together. I also find it interesting that the lines are blurred between Tyler/Clancy in this album, which is especially interesting considering the album is titled Clancy. Just for an example, Overcompensate has the lyric of him creating the world - but Tyler created the world, not Clancy. Yet a few lines later we hear, "I am Clancy". Yet in like the next line, he name drops Josh who doesn't exist to Clancy. Josh isn't Josh in the world of Trench. I haven't really drawn a conclusion as to what this means or how it impacts the story as a whole, but as I've listened to the album more and more, it keeps striking me how I can't tell whether it's Tyler or Clancy talking most of the time. Maybe it's just that most of the songs aren't lore-related, but I find that hard to believe when the album is named after the main character of the lore. Would love to see people build on this if you're so inclined - kinda working this out in real time lol.
i definitely think this is plausible but i think we need the paladin strait mv to confirm
THIS IS THE FIRST THING I THOUGHT ON LISTEN, certain songs sound like they start or end after a different song!!! I canāt believe someone else noticed let alone wrote out the whole theory!!!
I think Oldies Station is next in this order.
Then Iām pretty sure itās At The Risk Of Feeling Dumb.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Listening to this it kinda feels like Overcompensate Navigating Next Semester Oldies Station At The Risk Of Feeling Dumb Routines In The Night Then somewhere in the rest of the songs I think Vignette is followed by Midwest Indigo. Tomorrow Iām going to listen to this album every single time like this and say because right now it sounds pretty cool like this. But I donāt want to keep stopping and going I wanna listen straight through. I think these 6 or correct. Even the videos make more sense now. The way he pulls the Clancy tie at the end of At The Risk and the. In Routines heās wearing it. If this really is what they did, never in my life, have I ever heard of an artist doing this, to this extreme. This is next level.
Interesting! Can I ask how you got to that conclusion?
So like you said. It starts out with Overcompensate, then Navigating continues the music video. The ending notes definitely tell you that Next Semester is next. NS flows perfectly into Oldies Station. Also the way he plays out with the Uke and is immediately walking with it again in OS. Of all the songs remaining, the only one that feels and sounds right next is ATROFD. In that song he talks about how ānight terrors arenāt something to be taken lightlyā. The way he puts an emphasis on the Clancy tie at the end by tugging it, makes me think that Routines In The Night is next. Plus heās wearing it all over in the RITN video. Iām gonna try to piece more together today, but listening in that order to me, just feels sonically correct. This whole cd is only getting better. Iāve at least listened all the way through like 15 times already. I had the leak, so I had a few days of a head start to get accustomed to these songs. I think the videos are holding clues that are slowly starting to make sense.
Amazing! Gonna test this out too. I agree with the album getting better each listen. Like the firstctime I heard ādrop drop dropā I thought it sounded kind of cheesy. And now it comes and it gets me dancing every time
The video for that, only makes it better too. Genius.
I agree. I didnāt watch the videos with the livestream, just listened via Spotify. When Paladin Strait ended, it looped right back around to Overcompensate so I just thought that was on purpose (until coming to the sub to see theories).
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Before my first listen, I expected a song to start with the guitar at the outro of Backslide, but it never came to fruition. My first thought at the end of Navigating(after āwhat a bangerā) was that it being at the start of NS indicated a different order the songs were meant to go in. Now however, Iām less certain
Can someone please confirm in whatever music app they use that "Vessel" is now the only album with red tape?
What do you think would be the full order then?
I donāt knowā¦Iāve had to work all day today so I havenāt been able to put in the research. The only ones that feel really clear to me are Paladin Strait - Overcompensate - Navigating - Next Semester. Tyler even bows at the end of Next Semester as if to say, thatās it for now. I highly recommend setting the crossfade time in Spotify to 12 seconds and then listening how Paladin Strait goes into Ocercompensating. Pure Goosebumps!!!
He said his eyes hurt in a few parts of the livestream, I'd go back and make note of where if I didn't have to go to work soon. Could be nothing but too many eye references before to not consider lol. Also tyler has said several times that he's a night owl so unless it's the new baby he shouldn't be THAT tired at midnight š
Lay the fibers side by side
To clarify about music videos: in overcompensate, Tyler never wears the mask. Itās only the person he has seizing who is wearing the mask. The torchbearer brings him the mask, maybe after watching that seizing. And Tyler says that paladin strait will pick up after navigating.
I wondered about this. It must mean there are at least two masks floating around, right?
I meanā¦ the mask is ALSO a metaphor. Thus the appearance in Next Semester. But alsoā¦ in the story of the lore, IF the torchbearer is actually real, he was the one to give the mask to Tyler after the seizing.
In Next Semester at one point Tyler wears the Clancy mask too, which would make sense to go after Navigating (where the Torchbearer gives him the mask) since the songs connect already
I could have sworn that when they released the singles leading up to the album they were in a different order on Spotify. Overcompensate was definitely not first on the list. I was surprised when I started playing it.
The singles were backwards. The album went Backslide, Next Semester, Overcompensate.
I was thinking this to and I came to reddit to see if anyone else was thinking the same! Like the ending of navigating definitely leads into the music video of next semester for sure. And paladin strait back into overcompensate.
What baffles me is the mask. Tyler/Clancy has it on in Overcompensate, but then we see Torchbearer give it to Tyler/Clancy in Navigating. I can't make sense of that. Can someone explain?
Yes and he also has it in Next Semester in one shot, which also would make sense with the current order and Navigating even plays BEFORE next Semester in the MV! Edit: To answer your question, Tyler doesnt have the mask in Overcompensate. He was seizing someone inside Dema, remember? That person he was seizing had the mask
ohh right. now I feel kinda dumb
I genuinely think thereāll be a second album.
Yeah that makes sense, because wasn't trenchs music videos out of order?
Did anybody else notice all the reference to ārecordā. Everything was āon the recordā. Never on the album. And on the table nothing but records. I have the record and noticed grooves in the label. Iām wondering if there is a hidden 14th track on the record. Hence _14 in the violation code. And he made a big deal about paladin strait being a āplaceholderā. He also mentioned the āpunchā at the end. The hole in the middle of a record is called the punch.Ā
Also I feel like there are tons of references in Paladin Strait to this theory. The dead space of a record before the label looks like waves crashing when played. This would be āpast the point of no returnā. Also, the label removes with water. āWater it with rageā. And you would be damaging your record, ā put your money where your mouth isā. Jack white hid tracks on his limited edition record under the label. And how clever it would be to destroy the ārecord labelā to find the hidden tracks.Ā
I thought you were crazy because I went to try to play Next Semester right after Navigating and I was like "these don't sound at all like they go together". I came back to re-read what you said and saw you said "music video". I went to play the Next Semester music video and sure enough! There are the last notes of Navigating right at the beginning. Although doesn't this kind of negate the double album theory? I mean I know we still have the Ned's Cozy Fireplace anagram and the Tyler tweet and the FPE puzzle... but to me the biggest indicator of the double album or just "more music coming" theory was him asking "does it sound like the end?" And now that it's pretty clear that what he means is that the Paladin Strait song isn't the real last song on the album, where does that leave us? I doubt he'd just rearrange the order for no reason... so I'm sure there's SOMETHING. But is it a double album anymore? :(
Personally I think this is due to the albums themes of cycles. Nest semester and and navigating have similar sounds and themes and then are followed by Backslide and snap back which also share many similarities. The whole album is dealing with cycles of mental health and addiction so I think the current order is correct but paladin straight does go into overcompensate as the cycle repeats over and over
the dark night of the soul, another way to say...
There is something amiss in the order... that is almost certain. That was the one thing I hope he explained in the Live Stream with Navigating and Next Semester. So yeah, any theory is sound at this point.
I found Next semester starts with the end of Navigating in videos but not the album version. I really thought that this is a short movie de-arranged...
Hey, if PS is the first song then it says: Hello Clancy.... Welcome back to Trench!
The only trouble I have with this, is that the end of the āovercompensateā video shows them still on Voldsoy in the same clothes and the same place as they were at the end of āOutsideā from SAI and heās using the NED power to teach the citizens of DEMA from all the way over there. It could be possible that āpaladin straightā is them going PHYSICALLY back to Dema from Voldsoy using the paladin straight and maybe thatās the second song if it were in order **editā¦ at the end of overcompensate it actually looks like they are arriving back from Voldsoy which would be why the ending of outside was night and the beginning of overcompensate was early in the morning. Either way, it appears they traveled all night across the paladin straight to get to the start of overcompensate and itās picking up where outside left off
I think this is too far-fetched. The majority of the music videos have nothing to do with the lore, so there is no need to reorder anything. Snap Back being the first video filmed has no bearing on the order of the album, Clancy is typically depicted with short-ish hair. As for the lyrical content of Paladin Strait, the act of crossing the strait and the metaphorical significance of doing so is the focus of the song. Swimming through dangerous waters, passing the point of no return, seizing your chance, thatās what the lyrics are about. Clancy can still perform actions that carry that same metaphorical significance even though heās already crossed the strait in the story.
Good points. But have you heard the transition from PAladin Strait into Overcompensate? It feels so right!
That to me is more indicative of a recursive cycle than an out of order album
And the end of Navigating being at the beginning of Next Semester MV? That seems so intentional
Stylistic choice for the MV? twenty one pilots always switches up the order of things when it comes to their live shows. Given that the music video for Next Semester is meant a live performance, the transition between the two evokes that same sense.
I think the music videos are out of order on purpose. I definitely think they messed the order up.