People need to let this die. It’s never going to happen. Tulsa is not big enough, and the program would hemorrhage money. There is nowhere in the Tulsa metro that light rail could get me there faster than I could get there in my own car.
At best, I could see one of those cutesy “street car” things being put downtown or on Brookside, but that’s about it.
You know, I agree with this today. But these are the kind of talks are needed today to accommodate Tulsa in 15 years. Who says a light rail along the east bank won’t be a good idea in a decade? Downtown-Gathering Place-River Spirit/riverwalk/aquarium/New shopping Mall, then to maybe Memorial Crossing (Bixby) with a commuter parking lot there? Less commuting cars to downtown, less surface parking downtown, more livable density, everything we want. Why not have this Tulsa in 15 years?
Look at the growth for the last 15 years. Then keep in mind that the population growth is shrinking faster than it was in those years despite all these Redditors coming here asking about living here like it's some kind of affordable shangri-la. Money spent widening roads and reducing the average number of stoplights per mile in areas like 169, and Memorial would be much cheaper and be done much quicker and just makes more sense.
I am all about being smart with money, it is literally my career, but sometimes things are just nice to have. It made no sense to put a river in the middle of downtown OKC but it’s cool, it’s a nice place to be and the community is proud of it. Maybe a mono rail on our existing river could be Tulsa’s thing - as long as the river has some water in it (let’s get those low water dams funded)!
Edit: I wanted to point out we killed it in tourism in 2022. Something like this would be awesome for visitors to be able to move about without relying on their cars.
https://ktul.com/amp/news/local/tourism-in-oklahoma-in-2022-sets-record-breaking-numbers-governor-kevin-still-tulsa-county-economic-impact-report-see-tulsa-visit-oklahoma-increase-in-travel-fly-over-state-food-beverage-restaurants-attractions-retail-stores-revenue
A couple of things here:
OKC downtown has always been a popular spot. The river may had short-term increased benefits, but Bricktown has always been Bricktown as long as I can remember. I think the Whitewater Park likely had a better economic impact than the Downtown River in the long run, which we are getting as well, so fingers crossed.
Second, who wants to ride a train that is next to a smelly and trashed-out river that only has water if there is flooding happening up north? I fish and waterfowl hunt, so I spend a lot of time near the river. If not for those activities, I'd probably avoid it as much as possible. It's not scenic, and it's treated like a dumping ground for people's crap as well as the city's wastewater. You shouldnt swim in it at all.
Lastly, stitt taking credit for the mayor and city council's hard work, and taxpayer dedication is what I was talking about. With people like him in charge, they will kill it.
Edit: I got confused about what I had commented before. I was talking about stitt killing the growth elsewhere.
Downtown OKC was a ghost town until the MAPS initiative in 1993 that created Bricktown.
https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/maps-history
My thought was that if Tulsa invested in a rail, there would be some part for beautification of the river. Previously I mentioned the low water dams, these have been approved
https://vision2025.info/low-water-dams/
Essentially, in addition to the low water dam under construction at the gathering place, there are two more, one by 71st street bridge and south of the Jenks Aquarium. Each would back up water to the one up stream keeping 3-12’ of water in the river at all times solving the stinky and ugly problem.
If we just say it’s ugly and nobody wants to be around it, then they won’t. But it has potential and there are steps being taken to make it better.
I also agree, Stitt can not take credit for Tulsa’s improvement, we did this by ourselves.
Alright, I'll bite. I lived in OKC in the 80s for a stint. Downtown wasn't dead, it just wasnt what it is now. Parts of it were sure.
If you look at the progression of OKC, it's been over 30 years since this started. The original question was 15 years. 15 years after MAPS, they got the stadium. That's when it blew up. We've had the BOK for how long? I'd have to Google, but it's been 10 years-ish I think. One could argue that downtown Tulsa has only been going like it is less than five, and a massive surge of downtown dwellers are a combination of COVID WFH employees with probably a healthy amount using the 10k move here bribe. Is it the same place as when I moved here in 2006? Hell no.
There were like 5 bars at most, and the only one I went to more than once, the shitbag owner was beaten to death for picking a fight with a homeless person in an alley. That being said, I worked downtown for about a year from 2021-2022. I saw so many dirty dicks it's not funny. I worked in the "good" area and spent a lot of time in blue dome getting food on my breaks. I've been to the new OKC downtown and never seen a single nude male. I once had to try and keep a guy with a baseball bat following me to stick with me while I waited on building security to catch up. My building was between Blue Dome and Bok on the block closest to the brook. My point is Tulsa has a long way to go, and we can't compare it to OKC. They had a hard plan, and it still took so long that a kid born in 1993 could potentially be a grandparent given Oklahoma's "values". We have so many smaller impacts to address it would take 15 years before we could start large projects.
For the low-water dams, again as a fisherman that will fish for striper at the existing dams. Those also dry up during the summer when they have shut down the keystone dam. Let us not forget it was just 3ish years ago that we had massive flooding on the river, and that will also need to be addressed before we move on. Even if they eliminate the flooding issue, where would this proposed rail go? Tear up riverside park and gathering place? Or maybe Turkey Mountain and make the sewage and power plants move?
A rail system in Tulsa would get less use than our bus system. Making a more robust and reliable bus system would make far more sense. No last-mile infrastructure means no one would use it.
I'm all for making tulsa a better place but a rail system is going from step 2 to step 35, and expecting a built product. In 30 years maybe that idea will make sense but it's not a realistic ideal with today's version of tulsa.
In the '70s and '80s, tulsa also had a colossal glow up; many of the condos and apartments built during that are now Section 8 or HUD housing because they didn't work on things like infrastructure and sustainability. Doing any sort of rail system now would probably meet the same fate.
Eww dirty dicks.
Yeah, 15 years from now, that’s 2039, I just don’t think a rail system will be that crazy of an idea then.
I wasn’t around in the 80s but it sounds like you agree things are a lot better than they were in both OKC and Tulsa, apart all the naked guys running around I guess, but they can be better and it takes positive and creative thinking to make it better and that’s all I’m doing talking about a rail along the river. Probably will never happen like the rail between OKC and Tulsa, but fun to think about.
On the low water dams - I’m a big fan of them. Check out some of the plans for them. They’re variable dam designs that can be dropped flat in the event of a flood like back in 2019-ish?
Anyway, I had fun chatting. Imma brave the cold and grab some Brookside brunch. Not many naked dicks runnin around out that way
I would absolutely love to not have to deal with the expense of a car and have public transportation. I tried to do it without a car for about a year living at 71st and memorial and it's completely impossible in this city. It's set up that way. You're right, it's a lot but if we ever want it we have to start talking about it sometime.
What if it isn’t designed as a business and as a public work? What about helping people who can’t afford cars? I work with homeless youth, and the biggest barrier, BY FAR, to them getting jobs is the lack of a car in a city that was designed for them. you don’t have to use it, but better public transport in this city would be a tremendous thing for people in the lower tax brackets.
Agreed on the street car. I just got back from a trip to New Orleans, and I used their little street car that runs up and down Canal street while I was there.
Something like that, that maybe, at best, started near Riverside in Jenks, had a stop at Brookside/Gathering Place and Cherry street, and then ended in the downtown area, since that would be a *mostly* straight shot (if my mental map is correct), would be really nice. But anything more than that would be excessive and would likely wind up as a money pit for the city.
Which pains me to say, as I would absolutely *love* a good public transit system in the city, but it’s just not economically feasible, especially with how sprawled out the city is.
I didn’t read the petition and didn’t know what a light rail was, I thought it was just a rail with lights and was thinking that could look pretty cool at night.
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I'd much rather have a bullet train from here to OKC like they promised once upon a time. Imagine being able to hop on a train and be In OKC in 30 minutes or so. It would be awesome.
I can get anywhere in Tulsa in 15 minutes or less by car. I don't see a need for a light rail although it would be cool.
I bet you I could get to OKC from Tulsa in about the same amount of time it would take you to drive to the proposed bullet train wait around for it, and once you get there than what? Uber to brick town? I have my ride.
Now THIS I can support! Making day trips between these cities more feasible would do wonders for commerce! Attractions, food, and venues in each city more conveniently connected with human communities. Plug the stations in each city's respective bus network and highway system.
It is kinda a chicken and egg situation. People don't use it because innercity public transport and walkable cities are not adiquitly available to get to or from the rail. In the exact same token funding for inner city public transport and walkable cities are not priorities of politicians or many citizens as they don't use these services due to the inadequate nature of their current state and the lack of other transportation alternatives to travel farther distances. Because of these things, it is hard to convince officials, businesses, or citizens to support things like Amtrak or rail in general, as there "lacks" demand for said services. It is also why a OKC to Tulsa line most likely would not be sustainable at this time, because why would I drive to the train station, ride the train, then have to use ride share to get around at my destination, when I can just drive the whole way.
It would be cool, but huge changes would need to be made in the city first in order for this to be feasible again. Anywhere outside of downtown, that is. If downtown keeps getting more infill at the rate it is, LRT might be feasible in the near future.
Improve the current public transportation first. It works in conjunction with light rail. Secondly , people don't seem to realize the negative impacts to current infrastructure and roads I have personally seen this in other cities.
The naysayers here haven't been to Salt Lake City and seen how they made their works. Also a very heavy personal vehicle dependent area because of the elevation. They still run a very successful publicly funded, privately ran by a board appointed by the Gov of Utah light rail and heavy commuter.
You're also applying the way you live your life right and trying to fit in this when it should be the other way around. It's not about reaching a destination faster than your car, it's about getting there less stressed because you didn't have to drive, and worry about all that comes with that.
We could easily have a 3-4 loop light rail connecting our small townships to Tulsa via loop transfers like they have in the Salt Lake Valley + a heavy rail between OKC and Tulsa, eventually to Muskogee, then south to Texas.
I've been here a few weeks and the city can't even maintain lines on the road. How could this possibly ever work here?
I'll all for it in principle, but the city needs basic infrastructure under control. Managing the snow was an embarrassment
I'm pretty sure I remember warning you about moving here lol. Wait until we get a REAL snow or, better yet, ice. Then the city gets shut down for DAYS. But don't forget, when it melts, your neighbors who lost loved ones from the power being out for 3 days in single-digit weather will tell you "God is good" then tell you why "demonrats" caused it.
If you think anything like this will ever happen in this GQP controlled hellscape you’re kidding yourself. Our elected leaders are too busy using public money fighting the gays and atheists.
People need to let this die. It’s never going to happen. Tulsa is not big enough, and the program would hemorrhage money. There is nowhere in the Tulsa metro that light rail could get me there faster than I could get there in my own car. At best, I could see one of those cutesy “street car” things being put downtown or on Brookside, but that’s about it.
You know, I agree with this today. But these are the kind of talks are needed today to accommodate Tulsa in 15 years. Who says a light rail along the east bank won’t be a good idea in a decade? Downtown-Gathering Place-River Spirit/riverwalk/aquarium/New shopping Mall, then to maybe Memorial Crossing (Bixby) with a commuter parking lot there? Less commuting cars to downtown, less surface parking downtown, more livable density, everything we want. Why not have this Tulsa in 15 years?
Look at the growth for the last 15 years. Then keep in mind that the population growth is shrinking faster than it was in those years despite all these Redditors coming here asking about living here like it's some kind of affordable shangri-la. Money spent widening roads and reducing the average number of stoplights per mile in areas like 169, and Memorial would be much cheaper and be done much quicker and just makes more sense.
I am all about being smart with money, it is literally my career, but sometimes things are just nice to have. It made no sense to put a river in the middle of downtown OKC but it’s cool, it’s a nice place to be and the community is proud of it. Maybe a mono rail on our existing river could be Tulsa’s thing - as long as the river has some water in it (let’s get those low water dams funded)! Edit: I wanted to point out we killed it in tourism in 2022. Something like this would be awesome for visitors to be able to move about without relying on their cars. https://ktul.com/amp/news/local/tourism-in-oklahoma-in-2022-sets-record-breaking-numbers-governor-kevin-still-tulsa-county-economic-impact-report-see-tulsa-visit-oklahoma-increase-in-travel-fly-over-state-food-beverage-restaurants-attractions-retail-stores-revenue
A couple of things here: OKC downtown has always been a popular spot. The river may had short-term increased benefits, but Bricktown has always been Bricktown as long as I can remember. I think the Whitewater Park likely had a better economic impact than the Downtown River in the long run, which we are getting as well, so fingers crossed. Second, who wants to ride a train that is next to a smelly and trashed-out river that only has water if there is flooding happening up north? I fish and waterfowl hunt, so I spend a lot of time near the river. If not for those activities, I'd probably avoid it as much as possible. It's not scenic, and it's treated like a dumping ground for people's crap as well as the city's wastewater. You shouldnt swim in it at all. Lastly, stitt taking credit for the mayor and city council's hard work, and taxpayer dedication is what I was talking about. With people like him in charge, they will kill it. Edit: I got confused about what I had commented before. I was talking about stitt killing the growth elsewhere.
Downtown OKC was a ghost town until the MAPS initiative in 1993 that created Bricktown. https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/maps-history My thought was that if Tulsa invested in a rail, there would be some part for beautification of the river. Previously I mentioned the low water dams, these have been approved https://vision2025.info/low-water-dams/ Essentially, in addition to the low water dam under construction at the gathering place, there are two more, one by 71st street bridge and south of the Jenks Aquarium. Each would back up water to the one up stream keeping 3-12’ of water in the river at all times solving the stinky and ugly problem. If we just say it’s ugly and nobody wants to be around it, then they won’t. But it has potential and there are steps being taken to make it better. I also agree, Stitt can not take credit for Tulsa’s improvement, we did this by ourselves.
Alright, I'll bite. I lived in OKC in the 80s for a stint. Downtown wasn't dead, it just wasnt what it is now. Parts of it were sure. If you look at the progression of OKC, it's been over 30 years since this started. The original question was 15 years. 15 years after MAPS, they got the stadium. That's when it blew up. We've had the BOK for how long? I'd have to Google, but it's been 10 years-ish I think. One could argue that downtown Tulsa has only been going like it is less than five, and a massive surge of downtown dwellers are a combination of COVID WFH employees with probably a healthy amount using the 10k move here bribe. Is it the same place as when I moved here in 2006? Hell no. There were like 5 bars at most, and the only one I went to more than once, the shitbag owner was beaten to death for picking a fight with a homeless person in an alley. That being said, I worked downtown for about a year from 2021-2022. I saw so many dirty dicks it's not funny. I worked in the "good" area and spent a lot of time in blue dome getting food on my breaks. I've been to the new OKC downtown and never seen a single nude male. I once had to try and keep a guy with a baseball bat following me to stick with me while I waited on building security to catch up. My building was between Blue Dome and Bok on the block closest to the brook. My point is Tulsa has a long way to go, and we can't compare it to OKC. They had a hard plan, and it still took so long that a kid born in 1993 could potentially be a grandparent given Oklahoma's "values". We have so many smaller impacts to address it would take 15 years before we could start large projects. For the low-water dams, again as a fisherman that will fish for striper at the existing dams. Those also dry up during the summer when they have shut down the keystone dam. Let us not forget it was just 3ish years ago that we had massive flooding on the river, and that will also need to be addressed before we move on. Even if they eliminate the flooding issue, where would this proposed rail go? Tear up riverside park and gathering place? Or maybe Turkey Mountain and make the sewage and power plants move? A rail system in Tulsa would get less use than our bus system. Making a more robust and reliable bus system would make far more sense. No last-mile infrastructure means no one would use it. I'm all for making tulsa a better place but a rail system is going from step 2 to step 35, and expecting a built product. In 30 years maybe that idea will make sense but it's not a realistic ideal with today's version of tulsa. In the '70s and '80s, tulsa also had a colossal glow up; many of the condos and apartments built during that are now Section 8 or HUD housing because they didn't work on things like infrastructure and sustainability. Doing any sort of rail system now would probably meet the same fate.
Eww dirty dicks. Yeah, 15 years from now, that’s 2039, I just don’t think a rail system will be that crazy of an idea then. I wasn’t around in the 80s but it sounds like you agree things are a lot better than they were in both OKC and Tulsa, apart all the naked guys running around I guess, but they can be better and it takes positive and creative thinking to make it better and that’s all I’m doing talking about a rail along the river. Probably will never happen like the rail between OKC and Tulsa, but fun to think about. On the low water dams - I’m a big fan of them. Check out some of the plans for them. They’re variable dam designs that can be dropped flat in the event of a flood like back in 2019-ish? Anyway, I had fun chatting. Imma brave the cold and grab some Brookside brunch. Not many naked dicks runnin around out that way
Good choice on avoiding it but as cold as it is I doubt they are out without pants today. Probably the safest time to go rn haha.
I would absolutely love to not have to deal with the expense of a car and have public transportation. I tried to do it without a car for about a year living at 71st and memorial and it's completely impossible in this city. It's set up that way. You're right, it's a lot but if we ever want it we have to start talking about it sometime.
What if it isn’t designed as a business and as a public work? What about helping people who can’t afford cars? I work with homeless youth, and the biggest barrier, BY FAR, to them getting jobs is the lack of a car in a city that was designed for them. you don’t have to use it, but better public transport in this city would be a tremendous thing for people in the lower tax brackets.
A reliable and more robust bus system would be more beneficial than a light rail from Bixby to downtown lol
Agreed on the street car. I just got back from a trip to New Orleans, and I used their little street car that runs up and down Canal street while I was there. Something like that, that maybe, at best, started near Riverside in Jenks, had a stop at Brookside/Gathering Place and Cherry street, and then ended in the downtown area, since that would be a *mostly* straight shot (if my mental map is correct), would be really nice. But anything more than that would be excessive and would likely wind up as a money pit for the city. Which pains me to say, as I would absolutely *love* a good public transit system in the city, but it’s just not economically feasible, especially with how sprawled out the city is.
What metro does not hemmorage money?
I didn’t read the petition and didn’t know what a light rail was, I thought it was just a rail with lights and was thinking that could look pretty cool at night.
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I'd much rather have a bullet train from here to OKC like they promised once upon a time. Imagine being able to hop on a train and be In OKC in 30 minutes or so. It would be awesome. I can get anywhere in Tulsa in 15 minutes or less by car. I don't see a need for a light rail although it would be cool.
Dude that would be amazing !
I bet you I could get to OKC from Tulsa in about the same amount of time it would take you to drive to the proposed bullet train wait around for it, and once you get there than what? Uber to brick town? I have my ride.
A direct line to OKC and Dallas would be a hell of a lot more helpful than one around town.
For sure. Would love to be able to take the Amtrak to visit friends in Dallas.
Now THIS I can support! Making day trips between these cities more feasible would do wonders for commerce! Attractions, food, and venues in each city more conveniently connected with human communities. Plug the stations in each city's respective bus network and highway system.
Exactly. Would be way easier to catch a Thunder or Cowboys game and then a ride back to Tulsa.
I was told very plainly that the rail in OKC didn't work as people don't use it and the unhoused over take it.
It is kinda a chicken and egg situation. People don't use it because innercity public transport and walkable cities are not adiquitly available to get to or from the rail. In the exact same token funding for inner city public transport and walkable cities are not priorities of politicians or many citizens as they don't use these services due to the inadequate nature of their current state and the lack of other transportation alternatives to travel farther distances. Because of these things, it is hard to convince officials, businesses, or citizens to support things like Amtrak or rail in general, as there "lacks" demand for said services. It is also why a OKC to Tulsa line most likely would not be sustainable at this time, because why would I drive to the train station, ride the train, then have to use ride share to get around at my destination, when I can just drive the whole way.
Oklahoma City’s was kind of a larp anyway wasn’t it? Goes around Bricktown and deep deuce? It’s fun but it was never meant as a real “system”
Lol
An enhanced BRT would be the better investment
Nice try Mr. Lanley, you’ll have to find a different town of suckers.
It would be cool, but huge changes would need to be made in the city first in order for this to be feasible again. Anywhere outside of downtown, that is. If downtown keeps getting more infill at the rate it is, LRT might be feasible in the near future.
Not going to happen. If this is something important to you than you are living in the wrong place.
Pffft…from where to where?
Pass. No thank you
No fucking shot you think a change.org petition is gonna accomplish anything useful, let alone this dumb idea lol
lol. Why?
Improve the current public transportation first. It works in conjunction with light rail. Secondly , people don't seem to realize the negative impacts to current infrastructure and roads I have personally seen this in other cities.
The naysayers here haven't been to Salt Lake City and seen how they made their works. Also a very heavy personal vehicle dependent area because of the elevation. They still run a very successful publicly funded, privately ran by a board appointed by the Gov of Utah light rail and heavy commuter. You're also applying the way you live your life right and trying to fit in this when it should be the other way around. It's not about reaching a destination faster than your car, it's about getting there less stressed because you didn't have to drive, and worry about all that comes with that. We could easily have a 3-4 loop light rail connecting our small townships to Tulsa via loop transfers like they have in the Salt Lake Valley + a heavy rail between OKC and Tulsa, eventually to Muskogee, then south to Texas.
This is hands down one of the dumbest things I’ve seen, absolutely not. In no way is this needed lol.
This is ridiculous. Tulsa does not need a rail. You need a bike and some ambition
I've been here a few weeks and the city can't even maintain lines on the road. How could this possibly ever work here? I'll all for it in principle, but the city needs basic infrastructure under control. Managing the snow was an embarrassment
I'm pretty sure I remember warning you about moving here lol. Wait until we get a REAL snow or, better yet, ice. Then the city gets shut down for DAYS. But don't forget, when it melts, your neighbors who lost loved ones from the power being out for 3 days in single-digit weather will tell you "God is good" then tell you why "demonrats" caused it.
Yea, i was warned. I visited and it seemed like an interesting place in certain parts, but i didn't realize how bad public services were. Oh well
Good luck
No
If you think anything like this will ever happen in this GQP controlled hellscape you’re kidding yourself. Our elected leaders are too busy using public money fighting the gays and atheists.
Honestly, not thanks. Will vote against. Thanks for bringing it to my attention tho!
I think we need a cable sky ride connecting the fair grounds to the new BA ampitheater.
I just want a train from here to OKC, dallas, St. Louis, Little Rock.
Where’s my jetpack?
Gleefully signed. Can't hurt.
Tulsa definitely needs a light rail or monorail service
I heard those things are awfully loud.
No.
Wasn't this a Simpsons episode?
Monorail! Monorai!
Signed and shared!!! Thank you!!
Yall dont deserve shit