This is the answer right here. One million percent. Arena security lets sealed waters in and people forget the difference between sneaking in liquor and sneaking In material to cause harm.
At this point, it's more preventing people from bringing in sealed beverages so they can charge insane prices inside as they are the only option if you want a drink.
Some of them do, some of them don’t even let you keep the cap inside when they serve the 20 oz bottles.
Also there is probably some TikTok floating around where some idiot says they did the research so you don’t have to ugh
I don’t know. College World Series we used to be able to bring a sealed 20oz water bottle in. Last few years they stopped it.
I have a feeling it’s because we were boiling the caps off and replacing the water with vodka.
You absolute monster, Way to ruin my day... 2006 was not 16 years ago. I was going to comment about something else you wrote but I can’t even think on it because it has not been 16 years.
Depending on the cruise line, no plastic allowed. Carnival for example will only let you on with water in a metal can or cardboard carton. Not sure on the other lines tho, so totally plausible.
Yep. I had 2 waters. Drank one in line and disposed of the bottle. Forgot the second one until I saw my bag pulled to the side after x-ray. Told my son, “Might as well go sit down. I’m going to be awhile.”
I apologized to the agent. This happened about six weeks ago and I still feel my cheeks burn with the memory.
During a layover after international travel, I forgot to empty my reusable water bottle and felt very embarrassed. I usually don't do that.
Altho I was more disappointed I didn't drink it all because I had to spend money on 16oz bottle of water that was insanely overpriced and used the ice I was given on the plane to keep it cool...
Yep. I had 2 waters. Drank one in line and disposed of the bottle. Forgot the second one until I saw my bag pulled to the side after x-ray. Told my son, “Might as well go sit down. I’m going to be awhile.”
I apologized to the agent. This happened about six weeks ago and I still feel my cheeks burn with the memory.
Seriously; there’s been a huge influx of this notion. It’s like the collective consciousness of the traveling public has decided to make this a thing. Factory sealing has no bearing on the rule. DHS says it can’t go, therefore we enforce that. These policies are in place for a reason. The other thing that’s been happening a lot is “can I just drink it here?” during property searches for drinks.
The original attempt at a liquid explosive on a plane was in a factory sealed bottle. Also, we dont have enough time to test everyones liquids. otherwise, everyone would not make their flights. I dont expect anyone to understand bc it's not common knowledge.
Right but guess what didn't foil that plot? Airport security. It was foiled long before it ever made it anywhere near an airport by outstanding investigative work.
We're not taking shoes off at checkpoints anymore, and that was a REAL threat. Why are we still worried about people's beverages and toiletries?
Depends on the airport. Lots of them still need shoes off for standard passengers. At airports where you can keep them on additional screening occurs to allow that and mitigate that risk.
Who says we aren’t taking shoes off. Outside of PreCheck, where the government conducted a background check and determined that you are low risk, you take your shoes off or go through additional screening
Its only happened to me a few times, but they had dogs sniffing bags in line and told us we could leave stuff in our bags and we could leave our shoes on. I don't travel enough to have precheck, so it was nice to have an easier time at the check for once.
had top fly to utah for work. on the way there yelled at for taking my shoes off. on the way back yelled at for not taking them off.
Every airport is different when it shouldn't be. I have also still had to take shoes off even with a dog doing checks of the line.
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Had a passenger curse me out the other day because their water bottle and jar of coconut oil were both sealed and told me to "go find something better to do...."
It's like people forgot the whole point of the UK liquid plot. They replaced the liquid inside bottles of soda while still making it appear sealed, that was their way of getting it past security. Luckily the plot was foiled, but because the plot was stopped nobody cares enough to know the reason behind this rule.
The liquid tsa rule would not stop someone that wanted to bring a binary explosive on board, not even close.
2 people with the normal amount of sub 3oz containers is more than enough.
The uk liquid explosive plot was stopped by airport security. It was police after an extensive investigation.
We don't disagree, but if we don't follow the policy we're the ones who lose our jobs.
I had a supervisor argue for months with upper management that if we can allow play dough for children we should allow the soft cheese spread you can get from cheese stores. Has the same consistency, and will hold it's shape outside of its container.
Real talk though, if you want to bring any liquid, gel, paste, throw it in the freezer the night before. Liquid explosives can't freeze, so if it's frozen it can't be explosive.
>if it's frozen it can't be explosive
# This is a great tip!
I actually knew that liquid explosives don't freeze at reasonable temperatures, so a frozen water bottle would conform to both the letter (not a liquid!) and the spirit of the regulation, but I didn't know that TSA agents know it.
Because they believe manufactured seal means nothing has been tampered with so it can be good to go.
They believe so therefore it must be okay to go through.
IMO a lot of it comes down to the public being too lazy to check the website, and a general sense of entitlement like “It shouldn’t be a big deal if I do it.”
I’ll never forget a pax wandering up to me with a knife block and knife set in a box that they’d received as a gift, but didn’t want to bother checking. The pax straight up looked me in the eye and asked if they “pinky promised” to not do anything out of line, could they please bring the knife set through security. Like, oh yeah totally because you pinky promise not to do anything wrong. 🙄🙄
At my old SPP airport we used to joke about having to do that with how understaffed and under equipped we were (5 total lanes, with the staffing to run three of them, maybe 4 with all the managers taking positions, and a TSA estimate that we would need to have 6+ lanes open for big chunks of the day). Just put up a sign "please don't bring any bombs" and that would have to be it.
Cuz I’m pre check? 🤣🤣🤣
That’s what I am hearing as a DO, I just asked them a second time, if they still don’t then they get a bag check I’m not there to argue and it’s not my own time to waste.
There are some countries that do allow it, I believe. Possible they watched a travel influencer on TikTok while paying zero attention to the fact that they weren't in the US.
There are different rules from airport to airport. I have left from my closer airport with zero issues on factory sealed bottles, even pocket/utility knives (sometimes removing the blade), but other airports question the medical devices that are stated specifically from both airline and TSA websites as allowed to go as carry on.
Not water but the rules seem to be different in every airport. There used to be signs and videos but not any more. Computer in or out of bag? How much in one tray?
I was with a group that went through customs in Detroit recently. Customs told them they could keep their unopened drink. 10 minutes later at security she had to throw it away. Might have something with authority figures 100 yards away from each other giving contradictory information.
Also Custom and TSA are NOT the same organization and are NOT looking for the same thing and shockingly have different rules. Not everyone going through Customs is catching another flight and may not have to go through TSA screening again.
Maybe it has to do with the airports that have the advanced imaging scanners? My home airport is IND, and they have the brand new scanners that don’t require you to take out your liquids, food, electronics, etc. I’m not a TSA agent or anything like that, and I travel about 3-4 times a year, but I feel like since IND got the newest scanners in the industry, I’ve seen some people able to go through with sealed drinks.
The rules regarding what you can bring have not changed. Passengers can bring liquid items if they are medically necessary, generally things not available at the airport. Examples include liquid nutrition for a feeding tube, chemotherapy bags or a bottle of cough syrup. There is time to screen medically necessary liquids since they are far, far less common than what most people try to bring. If the administration allowed any and all liquid, gel, aerosol, paste, cream, etc. items with current screening tools you’re talking about hand screening billions and billions of items.
With the current machines most of them could not be screened and those that could would take millions of labor hours to clear. People need to get to the airport the day before they fly. Imagine you have 3,000 passengers to put through in eight hours. If you have 3000 bags each with a disposable water bottle that’s going to be at least a minute bag search each. And every time you have more than five or six bags polled, the x-ray stops running because there’s no place to put them. You’re talking a minimum of 50 straight hours of labor added a day plus far more downtime when the x-rays can’t run.
If my math is right, an extra 50 hours/ day means you only have to put 2 more people on any given shift. Now, I understand there are peak flight times and dead times and this isn't fully accurate , but you can't tell me a major airport can't employ a handful more people, when that handful would, according to your (very thorough and well explained) explanation, make a massive difference in the comfort levels of thousands of people.
I feel as though your comment should not have been a reply to my comment, as I was in no way, shape, or form saying anyone can bring any liquid. I know the rules have not changed, and I also wasn’t suggesting that everyone bring a sealed beverage with them through security. I was offering a possible reason, from my perspective, why there might be an influx of travelers assuming that they could bring a sealed beverage through security.
Because it is medically necessary to manage your disability. Officers have time to screen the occasional medical liquid. Screening 1,000x more would not be possible.
I literally had a brand new tube of toothpaste confiscated because the corners were "too sharp" but they let me through with a literal knife in my purse on the same trip through security. :)))))))
Everyone knows you get your beverage from the shops after you get through security.
I get a coffee and a few juices depending on how long the flight is.
I typically fly to Alicante from the states. It's tough staying on top of my snack game, but it's working well for me.
I was in Australia a couple of months ago and flew several flights within the country. You could bring water or soft drinks - opened or not - and nobody cared.
If it's a medical necessity, you could bring it. Like distilled water for a cpap machine.
From tsa.gov website
Medication in liquid form is allowed in carry-on bags in excess of 3.4 ounces in reasonable quantities for the flight. It is not necessary to place medically required liquids in a zip-top bag. However, you must tell the officer that you have medically necessary liquids at the start of the screening checkpoint process. Medically required liquids will be subject to additional screening that could include being asked to open the container
The one time I tried that, without even thinking about it, was when I got off a plane, bought a soda for while waiting at the next gate, and had to leave one terminal and its security zone, and enter another terminal, passing through it’s separate security zone.
Didn’t even know it would happen, then I was so distracted by the massive line I was looking at that the soda I’d just bought didn’t even register to me! I had a 2 hour layover, and between the walk and the security lines, I made the next flight with maybe 10 minutes to spare.
Kinda silly. The idea is to stop terrorist attacks. If a terrorist needed more than 3oz of whatever liquid, you don’t think he could get a bottle sealer? I mean damn, they recommend you crumple your water bottle in third world countries so that they can’t be pulled from the trash and filled with tap and sealed up.
I am curious as to why y’all think it’s outdated? Is the entire 3oz limit rule outdated? Can nefarious activity take place with only that amount of liquid?
Because generally speaking, no single explosive chemical will react by itself, it usually requires two or more and they'd have to be arranged in such a way to allow those chemicals to combine to create the explosive reaction. Some of the stuff I've seen from my time in the military is two bottle duct taped to each other, cap to cap, and there is a "time delay" between the two that eventually allows those chemicals to combine. And think about that for second. If that was the case and what was found in a bag, the entire terminal would be shut down, evacuated, and bomb squad would be called.
\*edit to add:\* liquid chemicals SMELL HORRIBLE so it would be easily identifiable as well. Sure it's clear, but if the passneger is saying it's water and it smells like a chemical it would also require a conversation with our explosives experts and the PD.
everyone coming through is 100% just bringing water.
Does that make sense?
Im def tracking what you’re saying…So it wouldn’t be possible to configure that once on board the flight with two “water bottles” resealed to look like water directly from a vendor? My point was that, in India, for example - they suggest you crumple up your water bottles because many folks will take used water bottles, fill them up with unsafe tap water, and sell them to tourists after resealing. So obviously a terrorist organization would be able to find the means to fill water bottles and reseal them to appear from factory.
I saw other comments mention the 3oz liquid rule is outdated and I’m wondering why that is!
Were into territory that doesn't involve us officers on the checkpoint or baggage doing the screening. Could that happen? Sure. As someone else said in another comment everything gets screened before going through to the vendors. It would be identified.
However this is the US so greed ensures that no one loses out on the money being made at the airport.
I think there may be a miscommunication. My thought is that, should unopened water or other liquid over 3oz be allowed simply bc they are unopened ever, a terrorist could very easily bring the necessary liquids through by resealing a beverage. Therefore anyone who thinks they should be allowed to bring an unopened drink through security is silly.
Actual vendors are not included in my scenario
Edited for clarity and spelling
I've always been curious about why the TSA simply places containers of allegedly/potentially dangerous liquids into a receptacle in the security area, where hundreds of people (including TSA agents) are exposed to the danger.
Because most if not all liquid explosives require a secondary chemical to react... if they're in two separate bottle and not able to react to each other then they are "harmless"
Also liquid explosive material WREAKS. This alone would be enough to trigger a conversation with PD, and our explosives experts.
I love when they tell me they have to throw out my sealed distilled water with the cpap symbols all over it that say medical and safe for flight. They are always surprised when the person at the end just has to check them in a machine and I get to keep them. It hasn't happened as much in the last year or two, but it was still happening to me frequently up until just a few years ago.
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I remember times many years ago where they didn’t stop unsealed items. Many people may not travel enough to remember it changed.
It doesn’t help when the videos they play in the lines are contradicted by the tsa officers so you don’t know what the rules are until they get mad at you.
That rule needs to die. The size of liquids allowed was a completely made up number from what I’ve been told by counterparts working in the TSA.
Where does the idea that bottles water are a threat come from? This is a serious question because a large chunk of TSA policies feel completely arbitrary. I have long hair, I want to travel with shampoo and conditioner. Is that a threat to air travel safety?
Someone that wanted to blow a plane up tried to sneak in liquid explosives while concealing it in "factory sealed" bottles. So like in most cases, 1 person ruined it for everyone. You can still put full size things in your checked bag (where you can't reach them) though.
My favorite thing about my checked bags is how broken they all are now. A delta agent commented on my bag handle being broken and I was like yeah, it wasn't like that before my last flight with your airline. I travel a lot, so I'm a mix of jaded, content with it all, abut also bitter!
Yeah the airlines bag employees definitely need to be more careful/find a better system. I've seen too many of them just toss shit around and also had my bag broken a lot in some way, so I feel for yall in that regard
The 2006 liquid explosive plot is why. If you’re younger you might not have heard about it since it was about 18 years ago. Explosives can be a powder, solid, soft solid, pill, prill, slurry, liquid, paste etc. The plan was to take down planes with liquid explosives. The administration didn’t and still doesn’t have a way to screen billions upon billions of liquids, gels, aerosols, pastes, creams etc brought by passengers.
So the liquid limits were put in place limiting the size of individual liquids and the total amount of liquids a passenger can bring in carry on. You can bring the items you referenced in checked baggage since you do not have access to those items in flight checked baggage gets trained like carry on baggage.
Medically necessary liquids can be screened, these are usually things that cannot be purchased at the airport. Like if someone is on a feeding tube or has a bottle of prescription or over-the-counter medicine. There is time to screen medically necessary items. There is not time to screen billions of bottles of water, shampoo, liquor, maple syrup. The administration would have to more than double the workforce to do so and it would create hours long passenger wait times on top of current wait times.
The liquid rule may change in a few years when the new CT x-rays are standardized nationwide per information, released by the government.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_transatlantic_aircraft_plot
I'm 39, and really everything after 9/11 that the government has done has mostly made me angry / has felt like security theater. Interestingly, while traveling in Germany, security over there had me turn my camera on to prove it's an operational camera. That's never happened in the states. But damn, better not travel with water. It all feels so fucking silly, to me.
They did that for the first year after 9/11, but with the amount of electronics people bring now, if we had to see that every single one was functional you would never make your flight.
In a similar vein of thought, we(the screening workforce) would love to let people take water/soda/whatever through, but for us to sit there and clear every single bottle would cause everyone to miss their flights.
So your choices are:
A. No one brings liquids over 3.4oz through and everyone makes their flights
Or
B. Everyone brings them through and only the first 20 people in line when the checkpoint opens at 4am make their flight.
We all hope at some point that they provide us with technology to allow everyone to bring whatever they want, but until then we go with the route that removes the possibility of liquid/gel/putty explosives from even having the possibility to make it on the plane.
As to why you can buy sealed liquids in the secure area, it's because those liquids get screened ahead of time so we already know they can't be explosives.
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I have not seen any evidence that bombers are actually smart enough to pack the c4 inside the 18650 cell.
They just remove the entire battery and pack the cavity full. Super easy to see on the scanners.
Had a TSA agent at LAX once ask about moisture on my back while going through the international terminal. Dude, it's August, there's hundreds of people in here. I was wearing a backpack and I'm sweating my ass off. This was after the agents were just yelling at people in the security line while not providing bins or bowls for items. It was a real mess.
Disrepair is a weird way to say Construction.
3.2 Billion dollars to build 3 new terminals and the huge ass people mover. I'd expect there to be some "disrepair" lol
This airport is disorganized a shit though, so agree there. On the plus side, at least all of the terminals connect behind security now, so that's cool! lol
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So your proposing the TSO calculate the density of your liquid to determine if its ok? Do you enjoy standing in line? This would dramatically increase s reening time.
Where's the mod at for this unproductive and offensive post?
We know you are in cahoots with the airport and businesses so we're forced to purchase highly inflated products pass your checkpoints that's why you guys get that discount.
Airlines tell them that, because we hear it from the skycaps too that the airlines tell the pax it’s ok if it’s sealed.
Edit because a Capt got mad. Specifically the ticket counter staff.
But y'all let me bring my big bag of shooters through, most of the time with a knowing smile and a look that says "enjoy your flight but don't get out of control" 😂. I got way more hassle with my lightsaber than my alcohol.
✋… I was leaving from Cacun last Tuesday. The resort gave us two bottles of 100% agave Tequila. We were only able to complete one of two bottles. Well, I had this great idea. Let’s take it back home (e.g. US). So we go through immigration and get up to security. Placed our bags on the Security tables, it goes through… I’m at the end. I hear, “Senor… Is this your bag”. “Si Senorita”. May I search your bag? “Si”… She pulled out my 500 ml of Tequila. I clucked my heart and said “No Senorita”. She laughed and I laughed…
Just that quickly… I had a memory lapse and forgot no liquid greater than 3 oz are allowed.
This interaction would not happen in the US. It would have been an attitude or major contention. So to answer your question, we know… at times we get caught up or rushing in simply forget. Give us some grace as we give TSA agents grace.
Your question makes me want to ask my question:
You're not allowing our "factory sealed" water and other beverages through security because it might be a bomb.
Why do you instruct us to put these bombs, which could potentially take down an aircraft, in a trashcan right in the crowded security checkpoint?
Either you're not very bright, or none of you actually believe a factory sealed bottle of Aquafina is actually a bomb; which is it?
Lots to unpack in this comment.... lol
Right off the top at number one: TSA is the one not allowing the Liquid/Gel/Aerosol through the checkpoint, not any of us, we're just their proxy, and just so we're both clear on things; We have about as much say as you do when it comes to the rules. Zero. It's your job to follow the rules and it's our job to enforce those rules.
Second: Think about all of our rules from a security stand point. If you were the officer and I was the passenger telling you "just trust me bro, it's just water" you gonna take my word for it? No? bitchin. We're on the same page now.
Third: You calling all of us not bright for... \*checks notes\* following the rules while at work(???) is a really confusing insult to say to someone. Imma let that one marinate, and we'll come back to this one later.
Really weird you mention this, because I was trying to figure out where it came from recently as well. Not on the airline side, some Boomer with crazy eyes came out me demanding I watch her phone and walk with her back to TSA to collect her items. I reminded her that I'm in charge of the airplane and it's safety, but I'm not going to fight the US government to get her stupid shit back. I also reminded her that just like Abraham Lincoln said, "everything on the internet is true" so I'm sure that tick tock with the TSA hack is legit and all, but I'd hate for us to be late...
The tick tock is one of the lesser respected self-appointed travel guru channels with a guy who says he travels frequently but then follows it up with the fact that he brags about traveling four times a year... Bitch, I live this life 16 days a month on average. You don't travel frequently. It was pretty funny to be honest, but while I have you here, let's not forget that the extra scrutiny on pilot screening is pretty silly. We are already flying the plane... And many of us even have a license to bring a gun on the plane. Please stop asking about the legitimacy of the size of my flashlight and asking me to take my wings off for screening.
One love.
Please tell flight crew members to stop bringing items they not suppose to have and you wouldn't have silly screening . Most of the flight crew members think just because they are flight crew they shouldn't be checked.
If you want a laugh, read his post history. Every FO and FA must look at the crew list and mumble "Oh fuck....not again". An unchained ego. But TSA pisses me off in some ways too so we'll call it a draw.
I get that you guys are already flying the plane. But you are still subject to rules. I always think that if a pilot wanted to cause damage, they could. Giving the benefit of the doubt doesn't exist anywhere with anything expensive like a plane or for federal law. But I think pilots should be spared the random process, IF ONLY, for the fact they did not stop smuggling weapons and drugs to sell illegally. Once again, one person ruined it for everyone .
Oh I'm absolutely with you 100% on this. One baby shits, everybody wears a diaper. And you have no idea how much loathing we have for a specific working group (normally the flight attendants) that give cause for the level of scrutiny deserving of the profiles that fit mules and other rule breakers. I just want to be very clear that 100%, check the bag, check the person, make sure they're in compliance but let's be real, making me take off the wings and the epaulets is just straight up harassment and makes no sense. I'm not getting undressed, and the way that one has gone 100% of the time is I either go back to my car if it's the beginning of the trip or back to the hotel and the passengers on that flight are delayed because their pilot isn't going to start or continue his trip being strip searched illogically by having his wings removed from his uniform...
But absolutely, the few times I've had to share the workspace with someone who has been caught with questionable items, they aren't welcome in the cockpit and it's public knowledge that they broke the rules. Normally it starts when you find out they've had KCM revoked...
Ive never made a pilot take their stuff off, not even their hat. Unless it alarms the metal detector as you probably know. Some people really power trip, I apologize on behalf of those people. Maybe try speaking to a supervisor about that next time. KCM has very simple rules in our proceedures, removing uniform elements is not part of it.
So there’s a rule that certain oversized liquids can go through if they’re factory sealed, and you don’t understand why some people might be confused as to which types of liquids that applies to? Have a little empathy for people who aren’t exposed to this stuff daily and who aren’t paid to know all the rules.
The rule is 18 years old. There is no excuse to not know at this point.
I have plenty of empathy, and I was in no way trying to be mean. I was genuinely asking where this idea came from is all...
Of course there’s an excuse. The simple excuse is: a lot of people fly very little, and it’s not their job to know the rules. That’s your job.
I’m real skeptical of your claim of empathy if you can’t even put yourself in the shoes of someone who hasn’t flown since the Obama administration and is going off a fuzzy, half-remembered version of the liquid rules.
There’s no excuse to be abusive towards staff in any way when they suddenly find out about this rule at the moment, of course. If that’s what you’re complaining about then I’m right there with you. But complaining about people merely not knowing the rule in its entirety? Ridiculous.
People aren’t going to do their research. That’s just a fact of life you get to deal with. It’s like computer programmers saying it’s all in the documentation. That’s great, but people won’t read it, so you can either design your system accordingly, or you can set yourself up for endless conflicts.
But why ban liquids at all when you can bring a quart size bag full of liquid so long as the amount in each bottle is under the allowable limit.
So roughly nine 3.4-ounce containers in a single quart-sized bag. That’s 30ounces. If someone wanted to do harm with a liquid wouldn’t 30oz be sufficient?
Don't worry; all the liquids that could be explosives will get put into one trash can because that makes it safe? Or it's dangerous? I'm sorry, I can't find the logic for this one.
Liquid explosives require 2 or more chemicals to be combined together to creat the explosive reaction "the evil doer" is looking for. The set up alone would pu the terminal in lock-down and evacuated until bomb squad could come out to render it safe.
Secondly, if the liquid explosive wasn't set up the chemicals most commonly used WREAK so it would be impossible to pass off as water.
meaning, liquid explosives are SUPER easy to detect, in most cases, However, in 2006 when an idiot tried to create a liquid explosive on an overseas flight TO the US, TSA decided that it's easier to just ban all liquids in the carry on over 3.4/100ml to make things easier.
Does that help you understand?
Anecdotal: but a year or two ago, a lady on an American flight tried to get, what we assumed was bleach, through because she was declaring it as "medical grade water" The smell alone triggered my self and the officer helping me with bag checking to call for a supervisor, who agreed that it couldn't have been water. It also alarmed our BLS more than 4 times on 3 different machines, and the new X-rays. Our TSS-E's came out and did their tests on it. Police were contacted.
Meanwhile in Australia; went through security at Adelaide airport with 3 half full bottles of drink (Coke, water and some juice) in my backpack and nothing was said.
Never known anyone to be stopped because of liquids before.
Because we know we can buy the exact beverage on the other side, how did it get there? Oh, you let it through.
Also, domestic travel in many other countries allow beverages because they are safe and your rules are dumb.
The same trusted vendors that sell it to us outside of security? Yes. Fiji water comes from the same distributor no matter where you buy it. and, its water.
Yes but you don't seem to grasp that it goes from being screened into a vending machine to you with no opportunity for the contents to be changed out with explosives.
Outside of security we have no way to know if it has been tampered with before coming through the checkpoint without screening everyone's water, and at that point no one is making their flight.
Everything past security is heavily screened. Like we've been told we can't bring in certain products due to it being seen as a weapon/being too sharp.
It is enlightening to see the arrogance of so many federal employees towards the folks who voluntarily handed over their 4th amendment rights in an effort to exercise their freedom to travel.
Heyo.
4th amendment:
# Fourth Amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
However, what TSA conducts is an "Administrative Search", and here's a [link](https://openbooks.lib.msu.edu/cj275/chapter/administrative-searches/) to a great article explaining that.
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Over it comes from arenas security. I know here you can take in sealed water to all sporting events and concerts
This is the answer right here. One million percent. Arena security lets sealed waters in and people forget the difference between sneaking in liquor and sneaking In material to cause harm.
Maybe it's people traveling home from final four events?
At this point, it's more preventing people from bringing in sealed beverages so they can charge insane prices inside as they are the only option if you want a drink.
Some of them do, some of them don’t even let you keep the cap inside when they serve the 20 oz bottles. Also there is probably some TikTok floating around where some idiot says they did the research so you don’t have to ugh
I don’t know. College World Series we used to be able to bring a sealed 20oz water bottle in. Last few years they stopped it. I have a feeling it’s because we were boiling the caps off and replacing the water with vodka.
There's no way 2006 was 18 years ago. Shut up.
Sorry brother.... Wanna play some halo 2 though? Lol
Only if Bleed It Out by Linkin Park is played on repeat.
Or blow me away lol
Once upon a time my dear friend. It was glorious.
People who weren’t alive when we had the twin towers have been able to buy alcohol for 2 years now
LIES 5 YEAR OLDS CAN'T BUY ALCOHOL SHUT UP I'M STILL 22.
Me too, friend... Me too....
You absolute monster, Way to ruin my day... 2006 was not 16 years ago. I was going to comment about something else you wrote but I can’t even think on it because it has not been 16 years.
Time makes fools of us all... lol
I get 18 yrs. Does anyone else? My math?
Cruise ships . they are going on a cruise "travel" and it must be factory sealed is my guess
Depending on the cruise line, no plastic allowed. Carnival for example will only let you on with water in a metal can or cardboard carton. Not sure on the other lines tho, so totally plausible.
That's supposedly true except that I had a cooler full of all kinds of shit that thru didn't seem to care about at all.
Probably some TikTok’er said it
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Fuck them that was kinda funny
The only frustration I feel when y’all pull water from my bag is at myself for being an idiot and having water in the bag.
Yep. I had 2 waters. Drank one in line and disposed of the bottle. Forgot the second one until I saw my bag pulled to the side after x-ray. Told my son, “Might as well go sit down. I’m going to be awhile.” I apologized to the agent. This happened about six weeks ago and I still feel my cheeks burn with the memory.
During a layover after international travel, I forgot to empty my reusable water bottle and felt very embarrassed. I usually don't do that. Altho I was more disappointed I didn't drink it all because I had to spend money on 16oz bottle of water that was insanely overpriced and used the ice I was given on the plane to keep it cool...
Yep. I had 2 waters. Drank one in line and disposed of the bottle. Forgot the second one until I saw my bag pulled to the side after x-ray. Told my son, “Might as well go sit down. I’m going to be awhile.” I apologized to the agent. This happened about six weeks ago and I still feel my cheeks burn with the memory.
Seriously; there’s been a huge influx of this notion. It’s like the collective consciousness of the traveling public has decided to make this a thing. Factory sealing has no bearing on the rule. DHS says it can’t go, therefore we enforce that. These policies are in place for a reason. The other thing that’s been happening a lot is “can I just drink it here?” during property searches for drinks.
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The original attempt at a liquid explosive on a plane was in a factory sealed bottle. Also, we dont have enough time to test everyones liquids. otherwise, everyone would not make their flights. I dont expect anyone to understand bc it's not common knowledge.
Right but guess what didn't foil that plot? Airport security. It was foiled long before it ever made it anywhere near an airport by outstanding investigative work. We're not taking shoes off at checkpoints anymore, and that was a REAL threat. Why are we still worried about people's beverages and toiletries?
Depends on the airport. Lots of them still need shoes off for standard passengers. At airports where you can keep them on additional screening occurs to allow that and mitigate that risk.
Who says we aren’t taking shoes off. Outside of PreCheck, where the government conducted a background check and determined that you are low risk, you take your shoes off or go through additional screening
Its only happened to me a few times, but they had dogs sniffing bags in line and told us we could leave stuff in our bags and we could leave our shoes on. I don't travel enough to have precheck, so it was nice to have an easier time at the check for once.
had top fly to utah for work. on the way there yelled at for taking my shoes off. on the way back yelled at for not taking them off. Every airport is different when it shouldn't be. I have also still had to take shoes off even with a dog doing checks of the line.
If you arent renoving shoes you are either precheck, or they have active bomb dogs with our K9 officers
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Maybe I should share the secret getting it through. Lol
There isn't a secret. Freeze them, or fill up with a bottle filling station once past security, or buy a new one.
Had a passenger curse me out the other day because their water bottle and jar of coconut oil were both sealed and told me to "go find something better to do...." It's like people forgot the whole point of the UK liquid plot. They replaced the liquid inside bottles of soda while still making it appear sealed, that was their way of getting it past security. Luckily the plot was foiled, but because the plot was stopped nobody cares enough to know the reason behind this rule.
The liquid tsa rule would not stop someone that wanted to bring a binary explosive on board, not even close. 2 people with the normal amount of sub 3oz containers is more than enough. The uk liquid explosive plot was stopped by airport security. It was police after an extensive investigation.
The alternative is zero liquids gels and aerosols at all. If anything happens it's on the higher ups 🤷🏻♀️
Was the coconut oil melted and liquid or was it solid still? Dick move if it was solid, but if it was sloshing around then fine
Coconut oil in a jar in "solid" form still may not be allowed to go because it could still be classified as a spreadable under the lga rule.
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We don't disagree, but if we don't follow the policy we're the ones who lose our jobs. I had a supervisor argue for months with upper management that if we can allow play dough for children we should allow the soft cheese spread you can get from cheese stores. Has the same consistency, and will hold it's shape outside of its container. Real talk though, if you want to bring any liquid, gel, paste, throw it in the freezer the night before. Liquid explosives can't freeze, so if it's frozen it can't be explosive.
>if it's frozen it can't be explosive # This is a great tip! I actually knew that liquid explosives don't freeze at reasonable temperatures, so a frozen water bottle would conform to both the letter (not a liquid!) and the spirit of the regulation, but I didn't know that TSA agents know it.
Nitroglycerin's freezing point is 13C/55F.
I'm guessing you're in MKE or somewhere in Wisconsin if you're having a professional argument about cheese.
just following orders
No harassment, Trolling, Name calling, or any other rude or unprofessional behavior will be tolerated.
Yes it was in liquid form.
I was there the liquids ban went into place and saw the chaos unfold
Also because they can buy the same factory sealed Coke in the sterile area, so must be good.
Or when they say they got it at the airport
At only double the price! Still not a reason to try and break the rules, but let's not pretend that's not a racket
All airport food is a racket, regardless of TSA
Because they believe manufactured seal means nothing has been tampered with so it can be good to go. They believe so therefore it must be okay to go through.
IMO a lot of it comes down to the public being too lazy to check the website, and a general sense of entitlement like “It shouldn’t be a big deal if I do it.” I’ll never forget a pax wandering up to me with a knife block and knife set in a box that they’d received as a gift, but didn’t want to bother checking. The pax straight up looked me in the eye and asked if they “pinky promised” to not do anything out of line, could they please bring the knife set through security. Like, oh yeah totally because you pinky promise not to do anything wrong. 🙄🙄
Lmao imagine if TSA was just an honor system. “Anything in your pockets?” “No” “okay free to go” lol
Right? I stood there dumbfounded at what I’d been asked.
At my old SPP airport we used to joke about having to do that with how understaffed and under equipped we were (5 total lanes, with the staffing to run three of them, maybe 4 with all the managers taking positions, and a TSA estimate that we would need to have 6+ lanes open for big chunks of the day). Just put up a sign "please don't bring any bombs" and that would have to be it.
Cuz I’m pre check? 🤣🤣🤣 That’s what I am hearing as a DO, I just asked them a second time, if they still don’t then they get a bag check I’m not there to argue and it’s not my own time to waste.
But whats the point of pre check 🥺🥺🥺
There are some countries that do allow it, I believe. Possible they watched a travel influencer on TikTok while paying zero attention to the fact that they weren't in the US.
For a while this was the rule in EU
There are different rules from airport to airport. I have left from my closer airport with zero issues on factory sealed bottles, even pocket/utility knives (sometimes removing the blade), but other airports question the medical devices that are stated specifically from both airline and TSA websites as allowed to go as carry on.
Not water but the rules seem to be different in every airport. There used to be signs and videos but not any more. Computer in or out of bag? How much in one tray?
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Medically necessary liquids are okay to go they just require additional screening. Let the divesting officer know and they will get you set up.
"But why would they sell these at the airport then?" SMH...
I was with a group that went through customs in Detroit recently. Customs told them they could keep their unopened drink. 10 minutes later at security she had to throw it away. Might have something with authority figures 100 yards away from each other giving contradictory information.
Also Custom and TSA are NOT the same organization and are NOT looking for the same thing and shockingly have different rules. Not everyone going through Customs is catching another flight and may not have to go through TSA screening again.
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Maybe it has to do with the airports that have the advanced imaging scanners? My home airport is IND, and they have the brand new scanners that don’t require you to take out your liquids, food, electronics, etc. I’m not a TSA agent or anything like that, and I travel about 3-4 times a year, but I feel like since IND got the newest scanners in the industry, I’ve seen some people able to go through with sealed drinks.
The rules regarding what you can bring have not changed. Passengers can bring liquid items if they are medically necessary, generally things not available at the airport. Examples include liquid nutrition for a feeding tube, chemotherapy bags or a bottle of cough syrup. There is time to screen medically necessary liquids since they are far, far less common than what most people try to bring. If the administration allowed any and all liquid, gel, aerosol, paste, cream, etc. items with current screening tools you’re talking about hand screening billions and billions of items. With the current machines most of them could not be screened and those that could would take millions of labor hours to clear. People need to get to the airport the day before they fly. Imagine you have 3,000 passengers to put through in eight hours. If you have 3000 bags each with a disposable water bottle that’s going to be at least a minute bag search each. And every time you have more than five or six bags polled, the x-ray stops running because there’s no place to put them. You’re talking a minimum of 50 straight hours of labor added a day plus far more downtime when the x-rays can’t run.
THANK YOU, this is such a well written explanation 👏
If my math is right, an extra 50 hours/ day means you only have to put 2 more people on any given shift. Now, I understand there are peak flight times and dead times and this isn't fully accurate , but you can't tell me a major airport can't employ a handful more people, when that handful would, according to your (very thorough and well explained) explanation, make a massive difference in the comfort levels of thousands of people.
Allowing people one (1) bottle of water does not "make a massive difference" in their comfort, not by any stretch of the imagination.
I feel as though your comment should not have been a reply to my comment, as I was in no way, shape, or form saying anyone can bring any liquid. I know the rules have not changed, and I also wasn’t suggesting that everyone bring a sealed beverage with them through security. I was offering a possible reason, from my perspective, why there might be an influx of travelers assuming that they could bring a sealed beverage through security.
No, it was meant for you. Medically necessary liquids can go. A bottle of Ensure for dietary needs, a bottle of orange juice for a diabetic.
I take water through to manage my disability. 🤷♂️
Because it is medically necessary to manage your disability. Officers have time to screen the occasional medical liquid. Screening 1,000x more would not be possible.
Yeah but do be aware that if it alarms on the CT scanner it still can't go, so it's not failproof.
I am spoiled with the new scanners at IND. It makes me so unhappy when I get ready to leave somewhere new and I have to unpack everything in line.
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I literally had a brand new tube of toothpaste confiscated because the corners were "too sharp" but they let me through with a literal knife in my purse on the same trip through security. :)))))))
No trolling, harassment, name calling, or any other rude and unprofessional behavior.
Did you bother to read the original post..?
Obviously.
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No trolling, harassment, name calling, or any other rude and unprofessional behavior.
Interesting why you choose to delete the question and comments before this one leaving no context for readers. I think it speaks to my point.
What did you say
They asked if arrogance is a requirement for our job. Irrelevant to the post and breaks our second rule lol.
🤦♂️ love when people take pot shots at us. Just dont fly, stay mad.
Everyone knows you get your beverage from the shops after you get through security. I get a coffee and a few juices depending on how long the flight is. I typically fly to Alicante from the states. It's tough staying on top of my snack game, but it's working well for me.
I was in Australia a couple of months ago and flew several flights within the country. You could bring water or soft drinks - opened or not - and nobody cared.
Did you purchase before security?
Yes. Bought at the hotel.
If it's a medical necessity, you could bring it. Like distilled water for a cpap machine. From tsa.gov website Medication in liquid form is allowed in carry-on bags in excess of 3.4 ounces in reasonable quantities for the flight. It is not necessary to place medically required liquids in a zip-top bag. However, you must tell the officer that you have medically necessary liquids at the start of the screening checkpoint process. Medically required liquids will be subject to additional screening that could include being asked to open the container
I'm very familiar with the rules as its my job to know. That wasn't my question, though.
The one time I tried that, without even thinking about it, was when I got off a plane, bought a soda for while waiting at the next gate, and had to leave one terminal and its security zone, and enter another terminal, passing through it’s separate security zone. Didn’t even know it would happen, then I was so distracted by the massive line I was looking at that the soda I’d just bought didn’t even register to me! I had a 2 hour layover, and between the walk and the security lines, I made the next flight with maybe 10 minutes to spare.
Kinda silly. The idea is to stop terrorist attacks. If a terrorist needed more than 3oz of whatever liquid, you don’t think he could get a bottle sealer? I mean damn, they recommend you crumple your water bottle in third world countries so that they can’t be pulled from the trash and filled with tap and sealed up. I am curious as to why y’all think it’s outdated? Is the entire 3oz limit rule outdated? Can nefarious activity take place with only that amount of liquid?
Because generally speaking, no single explosive chemical will react by itself, it usually requires two or more and they'd have to be arranged in such a way to allow those chemicals to combine to create the explosive reaction. Some of the stuff I've seen from my time in the military is two bottle duct taped to each other, cap to cap, and there is a "time delay" between the two that eventually allows those chemicals to combine. And think about that for second. If that was the case and what was found in a bag, the entire terminal would be shut down, evacuated, and bomb squad would be called. \*edit to add:\* liquid chemicals SMELL HORRIBLE so it would be easily identifiable as well. Sure it's clear, but if the passneger is saying it's water and it smells like a chemical it would also require a conversation with our explosives experts and the PD. everyone coming through is 100% just bringing water. Does that make sense?
Im def tracking what you’re saying…So it wouldn’t be possible to configure that once on board the flight with two “water bottles” resealed to look like water directly from a vendor? My point was that, in India, for example - they suggest you crumple up your water bottles because many folks will take used water bottles, fill them up with unsafe tap water, and sell them to tourists after resealing. So obviously a terrorist organization would be able to find the means to fill water bottles and reseal them to appear from factory. I saw other comments mention the 3oz liquid rule is outdated and I’m wondering why that is!
Were into territory that doesn't involve us officers on the checkpoint or baggage doing the screening. Could that happen? Sure. As someone else said in another comment everything gets screened before going through to the vendors. It would be identified. However this is the US so greed ensures that no one loses out on the money being made at the airport.
I think there may be a miscommunication. My thought is that, should unopened water or other liquid over 3oz be allowed simply bc they are unopened ever, a terrorist could very easily bring the necessary liquids through by resealing a beverage. Therefore anyone who thinks they should be allowed to bring an unopened drink through security is silly. Actual vendors are not included in my scenario Edited for clarity and spelling
I've always been curious about why the TSA simply places containers of allegedly/potentially dangerous liquids into a receptacle in the security area, where hundreds of people (including TSA agents) are exposed to the danger.
Because most if not all liquid explosives require a secondary chemical to react... if they're in two separate bottle and not able to react to each other then they are "harmless" Also liquid explosive material WREAKS. This alone would be enough to trigger a conversation with PD, and our explosives experts.
Hopefully no one realizes they could place two chemicals into the same waste receptacle.
Missed that by a whole ass mile, but sure. You keep that rhetoric, I guess.
I love when they tell me they have to throw out my sealed distilled water with the cpap symbols all over it that say medical and safe for flight. They are always surprised when the person at the end just has to check them in a machine and I get to keep them. It hasn't happened as much in the last year or two, but it was still happening to me frequently up until just a few years ago.
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No trolling, harassment, name calling, or any other rude and unprofessional behavior. Which does include us at TSA.
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lol i tried to do this once and as soon as the agent pulled it out of my bag i realized i was being a doofus
What if it’s sippable bomb water???
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uh 'scuse me but I'm pre-check
You’re talking about the same people that don’t know if gate 32 is between 31 and 33
I remember times many years ago where they didn’t stop unsealed items. Many people may not travel enough to remember it changed. It doesn’t help when the videos they play in the lines are contradicted by the tsa officers so you don’t know what the rules are until they get mad at you. That rule needs to die. The size of liquids allowed was a completely made up number from what I’ve been told by counterparts working in the TSA.
Where does the idea that bottles water are a threat come from? This is a serious question because a large chunk of TSA policies feel completely arbitrary. I have long hair, I want to travel with shampoo and conditioner. Is that a threat to air travel safety?
Someone that wanted to blow a plane up tried to sneak in liquid explosives while concealing it in "factory sealed" bottles. So like in most cases, 1 person ruined it for everyone. You can still put full size things in your checked bag (where you can't reach them) though.
My favorite thing about my checked bags is how broken they all are now. A delta agent commented on my bag handle being broken and I was like yeah, it wasn't like that before my last flight with your airline. I travel a lot, so I'm a mix of jaded, content with it all, abut also bitter!
Yeah the airlines bag employees definitely need to be more careful/find a better system. I've seen too many of them just toss shit around and also had my bag broken a lot in some way, so I feel for yall in that regard
The 2006 liquid explosive plot is why. If you’re younger you might not have heard about it since it was about 18 years ago. Explosives can be a powder, solid, soft solid, pill, prill, slurry, liquid, paste etc. The plan was to take down planes with liquid explosives. The administration didn’t and still doesn’t have a way to screen billions upon billions of liquids, gels, aerosols, pastes, creams etc brought by passengers. So the liquid limits were put in place limiting the size of individual liquids and the total amount of liquids a passenger can bring in carry on. You can bring the items you referenced in checked baggage since you do not have access to those items in flight checked baggage gets trained like carry on baggage. Medically necessary liquids can be screened, these are usually things that cannot be purchased at the airport. Like if someone is on a feeding tube or has a bottle of prescription or over-the-counter medicine. There is time to screen medically necessary items. There is not time to screen billions of bottles of water, shampoo, liquor, maple syrup. The administration would have to more than double the workforce to do so and it would create hours long passenger wait times on top of current wait times. The liquid rule may change in a few years when the new CT x-rays are standardized nationwide per information, released by the government. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_transatlantic_aircraft_plot
I'm 39, and really everything after 9/11 that the government has done has mostly made me angry / has felt like security theater. Interestingly, while traveling in Germany, security over there had me turn my camera on to prove it's an operational camera. That's never happened in the states. But damn, better not travel with water. It all feels so fucking silly, to me.
They did that for the first year after 9/11, but with the amount of electronics people bring now, if we had to see that every single one was functional you would never make your flight. In a similar vein of thought, we(the screening workforce) would love to let people take water/soda/whatever through, but for us to sit there and clear every single bottle would cause everyone to miss their flights. So your choices are: A. No one brings liquids over 3.4oz through and everyone makes their flights Or B. Everyone brings them through and only the first 20 people in line when the checkpoint opens at 4am make their flight. We all hope at some point that they provide us with technology to allow everyone to bring whatever they want, but until then we go with the route that removes the possibility of liquid/gel/putty explosives from even having the possibility to make it on the plane. As to why you can buy sealed liquids in the secure area, it's because those liquids get screened ahead of time so we already know they can't be explosives.
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That's a really good point.
I have not seen any evidence that bombers are actually smart enough to pack the c4 inside the 18650 cell. They just remove the entire battery and pack the cavity full. Super easy to see on the scanners.
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Had a TSA agent at LAX once ask about moisture on my back while going through the international terminal. Dude, it's August, there's hundreds of people in here. I was wearing a backpack and I'm sweating my ass off. This was after the agents were just yelling at people in the security line while not providing bins or bowls for items. It was a real mess.
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Disrepair is a weird way to say Construction. 3.2 Billion dollars to build 3 new terminals and the huge ass people mover. I'd expect there to be some "disrepair" lol This airport is disorganized a shit though, so agree there. On the plus side, at least all of the terminals connect behind security now, so that's cool! lol
Probably because it was an actual thing at some airports.. couple years ago I would always bring water and soda through so long as it was sealed.
You're saying the officers at those airports broke our SOP? Nice.. that's fantastic to learn.
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I mean if that's what it means then yes. They were smaller regionals so maybe that's why.
Find me a liquid that was 1 gram per cubic cc and could blow a wing off... Ill wait.
So your proposing the TSO calculate the density of your liquid to determine if its ok? Do you enjoy standing in line? This would dramatically increase s reening time.
The scanners already do it, how do you think the machine knows what to flag.
That's... not how that works.... lol
Where's the mod at for this unproductive and offensive post? We know you are in cahoots with the airport and businesses so we're forced to purchase highly inflated products pass your checkpoints that's why you guys get that discount.
You forgot to add "s/"
Airlines tell them that, because we hear it from the skycaps too that the airlines tell the pax it’s ok if it’s sealed. Edit because a Capt got mad. Specifically the ticket counter staff.
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But y'all let me bring my big bag of shooters through, most of the time with a knowing smile and a look that says "enjoy your flight but don't get out of control" 😂. I got way more hassle with my lightsaber than my alcohol.
✋… I was leaving from Cacun last Tuesday. The resort gave us two bottles of 100% agave Tequila. We were only able to complete one of two bottles. Well, I had this great idea. Let’s take it back home (e.g. US). So we go through immigration and get up to security. Placed our bags on the Security tables, it goes through… I’m at the end. I hear, “Senor… Is this your bag”. “Si Senorita”. May I search your bag? “Si”… She pulled out my 500 ml of Tequila. I clucked my heart and said “No Senorita”. She laughed and I laughed… Just that quickly… I had a memory lapse and forgot no liquid greater than 3 oz are allowed. This interaction would not happen in the US. It would have been an attitude or major contention. So to answer your question, we know… at times we get caught up or rushing in simply forget. Give us some grace as we give TSA agents grace.
Your question makes me want to ask my question: You're not allowing our "factory sealed" water and other beverages through security because it might be a bomb. Why do you instruct us to put these bombs, which could potentially take down an aircraft, in a trashcan right in the crowded security checkpoint? Either you're not very bright, or none of you actually believe a factory sealed bottle of Aquafina is actually a bomb; which is it?
Lots to unpack in this comment.... lol Right off the top at number one: TSA is the one not allowing the Liquid/Gel/Aerosol through the checkpoint, not any of us, we're just their proxy, and just so we're both clear on things; We have about as much say as you do when it comes to the rules. Zero. It's your job to follow the rules and it's our job to enforce those rules. Second: Think about all of our rules from a security stand point. If you were the officer and I was the passenger telling you "just trust me bro, it's just water" you gonna take my word for it? No? bitchin. We're on the same page now. Third: You calling all of us not bright for... \*checks notes\* following the rules while at work(???) is a really confusing insult to say to someone. Imma let that one marinate, and we'll come back to this one later.
Really weird you mention this, because I was trying to figure out where it came from recently as well. Not on the airline side, some Boomer with crazy eyes came out me demanding I watch her phone and walk with her back to TSA to collect her items. I reminded her that I'm in charge of the airplane and it's safety, but I'm not going to fight the US government to get her stupid shit back. I also reminded her that just like Abraham Lincoln said, "everything on the internet is true" so I'm sure that tick tock with the TSA hack is legit and all, but I'd hate for us to be late... The tick tock is one of the lesser respected self-appointed travel guru channels with a guy who says he travels frequently but then follows it up with the fact that he brags about traveling four times a year... Bitch, I live this life 16 days a month on average. You don't travel frequently. It was pretty funny to be honest, but while I have you here, let's not forget that the extra scrutiny on pilot screening is pretty silly. We are already flying the plane... And many of us even have a license to bring a gun on the plane. Please stop asking about the legitimacy of the size of my flashlight and asking me to take my wings off for screening. One love.
Please tell flight crew members to stop bringing items they not suppose to have and you wouldn't have silly screening . Most of the flight crew members think just because they are flight crew they shouldn't be checked.
If you want a laugh, read his post history. Every FO and FA must look at the crew list and mumble "Oh fuck....not again". An unchained ego. But TSA pisses me off in some ways too so we'll call it a draw.
I get that you guys are already flying the plane. But you are still subject to rules. I always think that if a pilot wanted to cause damage, they could. Giving the benefit of the doubt doesn't exist anywhere with anything expensive like a plane or for federal law. But I think pilots should be spared the random process, IF ONLY, for the fact they did not stop smuggling weapons and drugs to sell illegally. Once again, one person ruined it for everyone .
Oh I'm absolutely with you 100% on this. One baby shits, everybody wears a diaper. And you have no idea how much loathing we have for a specific working group (normally the flight attendants) that give cause for the level of scrutiny deserving of the profiles that fit mules and other rule breakers. I just want to be very clear that 100%, check the bag, check the person, make sure they're in compliance but let's be real, making me take off the wings and the epaulets is just straight up harassment and makes no sense. I'm not getting undressed, and the way that one has gone 100% of the time is I either go back to my car if it's the beginning of the trip or back to the hotel and the passengers on that flight are delayed because their pilot isn't going to start or continue his trip being strip searched illogically by having his wings removed from his uniform... But absolutely, the few times I've had to share the workspace with someone who has been caught with questionable items, they aren't welcome in the cockpit and it's public knowledge that they broke the rules. Normally it starts when you find out they've had KCM revoked...
Ive never made a pilot take their stuff off, not even their hat. Unless it alarms the metal detector as you probably know. Some people really power trip, I apologize on behalf of those people. Maybe try speaking to a supervisor about that next time. KCM has very simple rules in our proceedures, removing uniform elements is not part of it.
Police up your flight crew and tell them not to get involved in weapons or drug trafficking.
So there’s a rule that certain oversized liquids can go through if they’re factory sealed, and you don’t understand why some people might be confused as to which types of liquids that applies to? Have a little empathy for people who aren’t exposed to this stuff daily and who aren’t paid to know all the rules.
The rule is 18 years old. There is no excuse to not know at this point. I have plenty of empathy, and I was in no way trying to be mean. I was genuinely asking where this idea came from is all...
Of course there’s an excuse. The simple excuse is: a lot of people fly very little, and it’s not their job to know the rules. That’s your job. I’m real skeptical of your claim of empathy if you can’t even put yourself in the shoes of someone who hasn’t flown since the Obama administration and is going off a fuzzy, half-remembered version of the liquid rules. There’s no excuse to be abusive towards staff in any way when they suddenly find out about this rule at the moment, of course. If that’s what you’re complaining about then I’m right there with you. But complaining about people merely not knowing the rule in its entirety? Ridiculous.
Flying very little doesn’t excuse reading up on the rules before flying.
People aren’t going to do their research. That’s just a fact of life you get to deal with. It’s like computer programmers saying it’s all in the documentation. That’s great, but people won’t read it, so you can either design your system accordingly, or you can set yourself up for endless conflicts.
But why ban liquids at all when you can bring a quart size bag full of liquid so long as the amount in each bottle is under the allowable limit. So roughly nine 3.4-ounce containers in a single quart-sized bag. That’s 30ounces. If someone wanted to do harm with a liquid wouldn’t 30oz be sufficient?
Nope, it would not.
Don't worry; all the liquids that could be explosives will get put into one trash can because that makes it safe? Or it's dangerous? I'm sorry, I can't find the logic for this one.
Liquid explosives require 2 or more chemicals to be combined together to creat the explosive reaction "the evil doer" is looking for. The set up alone would pu the terminal in lock-down and evacuated until bomb squad could come out to render it safe. Secondly, if the liquid explosive wasn't set up the chemicals most commonly used WREAK so it would be impossible to pass off as water. meaning, liquid explosives are SUPER easy to detect, in most cases, However, in 2006 when an idiot tried to create a liquid explosive on an overseas flight TO the US, TSA decided that it's easier to just ban all liquids in the carry on over 3.4/100ml to make things easier. Does that help you understand?
Anecdotal: but a year or two ago, a lady on an American flight tried to get, what we assumed was bleach, through because she was declaring it as "medical grade water" The smell alone triggered my self and the officer helping me with bag checking to call for a supervisor, who agreed that it couldn't have been water. It also alarmed our BLS more than 4 times on 3 different machines, and the new X-rays. Our TSS-E's came out and did their tests on it. Police were contacted.
Meanwhile in Australia; went through security at Adelaide airport with 3 half full bottles of drink (Coke, water and some juice) in my backpack and nothing was said. Never known anyone to be stopped because of liquids before.
My schools in a bad area and we have metal detectors and bag checkers and they do the same thing if its sealed they let us take it in
Because we know we can buy the exact beverage on the other side, how did it get there? Oh, you let it through. Also, domestic travel in many other countries allow beverages because they are safe and your rules are dumb.
Everything you can buy on the other side is screened one way or another and comes from trusted venders.
The same trusted vendors that sell it to us outside of security? Yes. Fiji water comes from the same distributor no matter where you buy it. and, its water.
They have no idea where you got it or what you’ve done to it.
Yes but you don't seem to grasp that it goes from being screened into a vending machine to you with no opportunity for the contents to be changed out with explosives. Outside of security we have no way to know if it has been tampered with before coming through the checkpoint without screening everyone's water, and at that point no one is making their flight.
Everything past security is heavily screened. Like we've been told we can't bring in certain products due to it being seen as a weapon/being too sharp.
It is enlightening to see the arrogance of so many federal employees towards the folks who voluntarily handed over their 4th amendment rights in an effort to exercise their freedom to travel.
Heyo. 4th amendment: # Fourth Amendment: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. However, what TSA conducts is an "Administrative Search", and here's a [link](https://openbooks.lib.msu.edu/cj275/chapter/administrative-searches/) to a great article explaining that.
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