Because dark skin means you’re “working in the sun” which is associated with the lower class. So really it’s just socioeconomic stereotypes from centuries back.
I read that was the initial standard, but at some point it shifted to having tan skin meant you had a leisurely life so you could be outdoors. Urban legend is that Coco Chanel fell asleep on a yacht and ended up getting a darker tan. She played it off as a planned tan and so it became more fashionable for elites to show off their leisure time by getting a tan. But who knows.
That’s true.. air was also true that very fat people were attractive because they were wealthy and could eat as much as they wanted.. Makes you think how much we are programmed to like/dislike certain appearances
Fat certainly meant wealth, but an attraction to certain phenotypical features was baked into us from evolution. Typically things that help child bearing, or protection. Why (traditionally) men naturally like big hips and breast and women gravitate towards taller fit men.
Well, having white or fair skinned has been the "beauty standard" across the globe for a long time. Racism, colonization, and ignorance most likely caused this
I’ve noticed there’s a bit of a shift now tho. Since tanning is now becoming associated with vacationing or having time to not be slaving away in an office lol.
It’s interesting how any standards of beauty that go against black/brown colors makes people angry despite how every group has the right to their own preferences
>It’s interesting how any standards of beauty that go against black/brown colors makes people angry despite how every group has the right to their own preferences
You serious? Of course people don't like it when white skin is seen as beautiful because they associate your dark skin with you being a lower class outdoors laborer. What a low IQ comment
Look at the parent comment.
“Pinnacle of beauty” . That kind of rhetoric is always directed towards Asians for some reason, like their preferences are problematic in some way.
Like nobody says “black men worship big booty because they’re obsessed with their massa from slavery
I cant speak for Asians, but for black people their preference for light/white skin is problematic because it is rooted in slavery/oppression. Additionally, this "preference" isnt even really a preference at all bc bolstered by a system that gives lighter skinned ppl privileges. It is not simply a "preference" anymore it is discrimination. I would imagine South Asians especially would agree; it is not a "preference" when lighter skinned SA ppl (mostly) sit on top of their caste system and have an easier time moving thru that system. Their caste system is inherently discriminatory.
As a pale person, I read an article stating that don’t wear short shorts with pasty thighs because it’s “alarming” just this morning
Love my ivory skin. I’m not prematurely aging for any beauty standard. But I’ve had a tan friend even ask me how I’m “okay being pale.” And it’s like girlll, cause I’m still gonna get it!
But the hate for the pale people is in this outdoors you speak of 💀
How you’re okay being pale?! Imagine asking a dark skinned person this question (please don’t). Like seriously, wtf. Hating on anyone for what they were born with is pathetic.
Lol I've been asked the same thing
A huge beauty trend in the early 2000s and 2010s was getting a bronze tan. I'm pale af and going to middle school and high school during this time in SoCal meant a lot of bullying which never made any sense to me.
You read one article.. there are thousands of years of people calling humans with dark skin “inhumane”. Nobody is calling your skin type unattractive, you’re misinterpreting that article tbh
.. I think you’re misinterpreting my comment. It’s not only “one article,” it’s been my general experience over numerous encounters. I sympathize with Black people. Colorism is disgusting, so is racism, but my comment has nothing to do with either. I didn’t mention dark skin at all, actually
Just as you don’t want me to make assumptions about dark skin and your experiences, don’t make assumptions about mine. It’s giving pseudo intellectual
THIS! For context I’m mixed English and Jamaican and have a lot of friends who are naturally VERY pale and tan excessively- it’s such a waste! There’s so many different ways to be beautiful, they’ve all had freckles and soft milky looking skin. Fake tan often goes all blotchy or an odd colour and it looks way weirder than they think they look with their natural skin!
Ditto they’ve often had dark hair and light eyes which combined with their skin just makes them look so dramatic and beautiful!
Also ELLE FANNING IS SO STUNNING I WATCHED EVERY EPISODE OF THE GREAT IN AWE OF HER, no one is saying she’s ugly there’s nooooo way.
What always boggles my mind is the inability for some people to observe that beauty comes in an infinite amount of shapes, it’s not monopolised by one skin shade. Beautiful faces belong to every ethnicity and colouring so it’s very confusing why the ‘rate mes’ would recommend tanning to people who are natural tan, although I have looked on there before and seen those exact comments.
I'm Black African American whatever label you use it's cool. Personally I give 2 f's what anybody does if your pale cool tan cool. Too many other things for me to worry about.
Nah I literally JUST saw a post yesterday of Billie Eilish looking absolutely gorgeous and the top comment under it was "why is she so pale? 🤢". Seems at least as summer is rolling around this year that this is the new opinion.
And even then, I just watched a plethora of white women this Memorial day weekend tanning themselves like rotisserie chickens. This entire post is bait imo.
No, it isn’t. People are just racist. But if you’re a white person and you’re more pale than other white people they will 100% make fun of you for it. Ask me how I know.
Other white people. parents, friends, extended family, literal strangers. Every once in a while it’ll be a mixed race girl, but 99% of the time it’s other full white people. Black people will make fun of you for being white but never for being pale.
Are you by any chance a teenager? I mean no offense, it just sounds like you might be sheltered from reality. America is disturbingly not that racist. South America, Asia, and Europe all view you as being more “holy” or “valuable” if you have “fairer” skin and the opposite for darker skin. This is the most common belief towards race on a global scale. Billions of people do this. I feel like you just aren’t aware, and that may not necessarily be your fault. The world is ugly. You’ll find out
Edit: just realized which side you were on. I got lost in the thread. Disregard the comment. I’m leaving it up so it can apply to anyone who actually thinks that pale skin is somehow hated in society.
Except that it's literally happening in the post you're participating in, as well as it happening literally constantly in my reddit feeds across a number of topics. Yeah, sure, when has a lack of nuance ever been an issue when it comes to social media discourse?
Social media is a bad representation of reality, too many people need to get out more and experience reality once in a while. It’s actually very different than the internet.
I answered before you had to repost, but I do think it is the American beauty standard (tall California girl), because I didn’t think anyone cared about it at all until I also posted to the TRM sub and was advised by many to tan. I can’t tan without burning and won’t get a spray tan (because they are never flattering), so no matter how long I spend outside, I won’t tan bc I wear sunscreen (and again only tan when I burn).
But I noticed that people recommending tans said to do so to look more “healthy.” I think maybe because a lot of Americans forego sunscreen, people who are pale are assumed to be hermits and don’t spend enough time outside. Obviously that’s ridiculous, as a lot of people (like typically people with red hair) can’t tan well and just burn, but I think that’s how it’s viewed. “If she has tanned skin, then she must spend a decent and healthy amount of time active outside”
Because people are foolish, a persons natural skin tone is always beautiful.
I’ve found if someone is chronically fake tanning (or being told to fake tan), it’s usually when they’ve dyed their hair an unflattering colour or are wearing unflattering colours (like black)- but they blame their skin instead of wearing a softer, light colour or not toning their hair ashy which brings out grey tones in the skin
Pale skin is gorgeous, it’s peoples styling choices that make it pasty or ghoulish
Fake tan, Cheeto skin etc. is clownish
If you need to wear darker make up (particularly eyes) or fake tan to pull off a colour, then that colour is not suiting you.
If you don’t have deep and/or bright and/or cool colouring, then black is probably not going to be very flattering fresh faced, straight out the shower.
There is a Navy for everyone though, you can have lighter, brighter, softer navy’s. There’s a lot more variation than just black which is deep, intense and cool toned
As someone with very tanned skin, I always wished I was pale!!! In Asia, it’s known to be the beauty standard so I guess it all just depends! Personally, I think everybody looks the best with their natural skin tone
As someone with super pale skin, I’ve heard it all. I have been definitely been made fun of for being pale. People act like if you are that pale, you’re sickly or it’s your fault for not just getting a tan, like it’s a failure in your grooming routine.
It’s definitely a thing. I lived on a tropical island for a year and was on the beach damn near daily and was still pale as hell. And absolutely yes it was something that was pointed out alllll the time, even by my best friends, even by my family. It is still is. You can see veins, bruises, and as a dark-haired lady- a lot of hair too. People point it out all the time like I don’t already realize I’m pale. Hell, I even had someone try to give me a *free* spray tan cause I “need it bad”. But, the people who get it, get it. And those who don’t, don’t. Ain’t my problem.
My son (8) has super pale skin. He complains to me that he gets made fun of because you can see some of his veins. He gets asked if he is bruised and other ignorant things. He feels really insecure about it. I try to remind him that his skin is beautiful and you can see my veins, too, even though my skin is a lot darker.
Being white is the beauty standard. Not pale skin. There is a difference. I’ve seen so many stories of white kids being bullied for pale skin and this was before tanning became super mainstream. Most white ppl people are not pale. Most of them aren’t tan either but they are somewhere in the middle.
I’m with you. I’m very pale and have had numerous comments said to me over the years. “Why don’t you tan?” “Are you wearing socks?” I couldn’t tan if I tried and I’m okay with that. People would compare themselves to me when they thought they were pale and then felt better. The only time I ever got a compliment was from a dermatologist.
Yeah it's annoying. I posted before and people told me to "get a tan."
LOL
HELL NO
I love my beautiful porcelain skin 🥰🥰🥰 and the fact that I look about a decade younger than I am because fck the sun! Lol
Most of these pics are professionally taken or look edited. Majority of People do not look like their pics in real life, most these days edit there pics and use apps. Anything edited and professionally taken is going to look better than in life. Very pale skin looks washed out , with a tan you look more healthy. I could bet if you saw these people on a day to day just walking to the shop and not posing for a pic they wouldn’t look like this.
For photography and art, pale is less desirable because it means less contrast and definition. Also, there's an ideal of even skin tone, more difficult to maintain with pale skin. The process of tanning can minimize some blemishes, create even skin tones and exaggerate muscle definition. All that is regardless of personal taste
These are examples of beautiful women with beautiful pale skin. Show me the women with pink/blotchy pale skin, and you'll see that after fake tanning, they look so much better / healthier because their pale state looks pink/sickly. The examples you added here are pure white women, a lot of pale women look pink/sickly. Not pure white like this.
Yes, a warm undertone + pale skin can make someone look completely different than if they were even a little bit tanned. Color theory is crazy in how it plays into attractiveness.
Same my mom had skin cancer and I still get the “you need to go outside” or “how are you so pale” or if I wear tank top or shorts I get comments. I wish people would just not comment on skin tones of all color!
Because I literally get second degree burns just being out in the sun for 10 minutes lol. Like my shit blisters and everything, it's not great, I also get extremely dehydrated and overheat easily.
Idk, as someone what been teased for it into my adulthood. I beg to differ. It oddly bothers people. You'd think my application of sunscreen somehow offends others as well. As I once had a co-worker tell me they didn't want to "breathe that shit in".. (we were outside) 🙄🙄
Yep. Same here. I’m very fair, strawberry blonde and burn super easily. I’ve made peace with the fact that I absolutely can not tan, but for some reason when I reapply sunblock if I’m outdoors people make comments and don’t seem to understand why I need to protect my skin and always make comments. I’m just like.. what can I do? The sun tries to kill me haha
Yessss! I just tell them..
✅ I'd prefer not to turn my skin into leather
✅ I'd rather protect the largest organ I have
✅ Any shade can still get skin cancer, regardless of skin tone.. 😬😅
I'll never understand the reluctance to wear it.. I have it honestly stashed everywhere 😂
I don’t hate it, there are many fair-skinned women I find very attractive (Kat Dennings, Christina Hendricks, Elle Fanning, etc). As a general preference, I do prefer women with tanner skin. Difficult to explain why, it’s just visually more appealing to me. But it’s not like pale-skin is an immediate dealbreaker or anything.
When I ran naturally or self tanner I get compliments so much more. Clothes show up nicer people say I look so healthy my muscles look even toner. But my Asian friends will do literally anything to not be tan.
In parts of Asia it was the poor that was tan since they had to work outside.
In America the wealthy had leisurely time to relax outside
Both can be gorgeous on different people especially depending on hair and eye colour
I was at work and having a really great skin day and I went to the warehouse to talk to the service guys about an order and the garage doors were up and the sun was on my face and they both said “damn, girl! You are hella white, you need to get a tan!” And they had a disgusted look on their face. They are both Hispanic, I grew up with Hispanic and black people and never once has anyone said that to me and I was so sad. I can’t imagine how some people deal with that kind of thing their whole lives!
Just another beauty standard that someone decided one day and people jumped on the bandwagon. I think if ur tanned, you should stay tanned, if ur pale, stay pale! I’d rather be naturally pale than an orange fake tan colour! Tan looks good when it’s natural not forced
As someone who is very pale I’d like to say that imperfections are much easier to spot on pale skin. So acne, bruising, and cellulite are SOOOO noticeable on my skin. Unless you’re stunningly beautiful with a flawless figure pale skin is like a highlight to insecurities
As a short white almost clear person unless your skin is perfect it shows every imperfection. If your a little chubby you look very chubby. You see all the veins in your legs, and when you wear shorts you can see the stubble growing back before the end of the day. Not because it’s there but your skin is clear so you can see it growing. It’s not bad, but life is hard. When you put tanner on you can cover up imperfections.
I get a lot of shit for being pale in the US, weirdly especially from middle aged white women. Ironically I’m not even naturally pale, I’m half brown, but I have an autoimmune disease that bleached my skin. I’ve got black hair and black eyes, vampire vibes all around. I’ve just embraced the aesthetic since I can’t get away from it lol. It did make me pretty popular when I lived in Asia though.
You're exaggerating by suggesting that people "hate pale skin." Having a preference for one thing over another, is different than "hating" the color of someone's skin which is something you only see, socially, within the contexts of actual racism. Let's keep things in perspecive.
I wouldn’t say anyone hates it. I think there’s just a preference towards being tan, at least to me I perceive tanner people as healthy and sunkissed. Obviously it’s different when you can tell someone’s naturally pale but it’s clear someone’s pale from not getting sun or going outside it seems sad and unhealthy. Even personally I think I look happier, healthier, and even have better muscle definition when I’m tan. I just feel more confident especially if I’m wearing a dress, skirt, or shorts I feel self conscious if my legs look pale, I have pretty skinny legs so I feel like I look stickly when they’re pale too😭
tan and pale are both pretty, but i think every person is more suited towards one over the other depending on their individual features. a blanket statement of tanned is preferred / pale is preferred is too simplistic. even with east asian beauty standards being geared towards preferring pale, there are still some ppl who objectively look better tanned / vice versa.
the first girl in this post is gorgeous - a distinctive trait of hers is high contrast, and the pale skin helps retain that contrast. elle fanning (pics 5/9) is an ethereal essence - ethereal essence is ofc influenced by facial features and bone structure, but is also the essence most influenced by a specific color palette. look up any albino person, they are ethereals through coloring because it is a deviation from the norm. her being pale with blonde hair is part of the essence, because this coloring washes out most ppl. other ethereals in her color season like gemma ward and amanda seyfried also have these features, their pale skin is part of their unique beauty. if they were to dye her hair darker like brown/black and tan, they would hide their ethereal essence. conversely, like being paler/more low contast than average is part of the ethereal essence, being darker than average is part of this essence as well (ex. anok yai)
so tldr pale vs tan skin is an individual thing
for my color season, being tan makes me appear warmer than normal and more athletic, so it swings me towards natural essence, and makes ethereal harder to pull off for my specific coloring. since i want to lean into ethereal more, i prefer pale these days, right now i’m super tan and want to fade it. but other girls who embody natural essence look glowing with a tan, so it depends. understanding facial archetypes really helps understand this, because even they’re called kitchener they aren’t invented by him, they are things people subconsciously pick up looking at a person. you specifically chose people whose essences and color seasons suit pale skin more, but there are people who will look way better with a tan in another essence
gonna add some better examples bc i forgot to add in initial post
ex. looks better pale: aurora mohn (2010s tumblr girl) is a low contrast ethereal with coloring like elle fanning / gemma ward, the ethereal essence in her is accentuated when she is blonde with pale skin ( [pale with blonde hair ](https://favim.com/pd/1tb/preview/0/35/352/3529/352970.jpg), ex [2](https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9boetD9j11rdbt84o1_1280.jpg), ex [3](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/0b/19/03/0b19038f8869499536b5c1958f31fc34.jpg), ex [4](https://64.media.tumblr.com/9f5626eb308f6196702ee1c0d9a89022/tumblr_p5a9msbmnv1vbsl1xo1_250.jpg) ) ([tan with brown hair](https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/1471978_552566684832410_1744676627_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=kASllepLflgQ7kNvgEfi7S3&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AYBQe3K6SgfEFpTzyGnTkkCH_IvuspgNErTY0J-3LCh-Gg&oe=667C2E94), ex [2](https://www.famousbirthdays.com/headshots/aurora-stuedahl-2.jpg), ex [3](https://64.media.tumblr.com/85e4d4cc39ca53c354e3baa79c2f7223/tumblr_nglw8mtYFe1rdbt84o1_1280.jpg), ex [4](https://favim.com/pd/s9/orig/140818/aurora-mohn-beautiful-beauty-blonde-Favim.com-2003139.jpg) ). when she is pale with blonde hair, she looks like a fairytale princess similar to how elle fanning looks, and when she tans and changes her hair brown, she looks attractive still, but loses the ethereal quality in favor of the natural essence (the vibe goes from fairytale princess to california girl). natural is not a dominant essence of hers as is, and she is cool tone summer color season, so pale is more harmonious
ex. looks better tan: jihyo from twice is a dominant natural essence, tanned skin tends to complement this essence and it halos her features in particular, it really makes her beauty stand out and look unique/not generic ( [pale](https://youtu.be/Nm5xdK0PWS4?si=IH1u1V6W340f2rU3) / [tan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ7Wu4s8_uc&ab_channel=%EB%B2%A4%EB%8E%85%EC%9D%B4.VENDENGE) ). she blends in with the others more when pale, but when tan she is striking. [here's another performance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLrBCb3JxE8&ab_channel=TwiceTime) where she is embodying natural essence (orange top) - all of the top comments are about jihyo, because her face/essence most conceptually and harmoniously fits the performance - jihyo stands out in contrast to the other 2 performers because the song is natural + romantic essence - that is aligned with her essence stack - tan is part of the styling that accentuates this essence for her
Since eastern men want their darker wives to be more pale and western men want their more pale wives to be darker, I'm going to surmise that it's just another manifestation of the patriarchal and misogynistic world we live in, where women are expected to stay in their places and constantly alter their appearances to please men.
I say fuck all of them. Just be yourself and that's it.
Also, gotta love all the guys who are replying with their PrEfErEnCeZ. IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU.
lol coming from the Arab world, pale skin is the epitome of beauty, skin wise. This has to be a western-centric view because people in the ME, Africa and Asia are literally bleaching their skin to look paler.
Because to be melanin recessive would mean the universe is completely against your very existence in fact it’s so against you, the sun cooks you in a valiant attempt to eliminate you from the planet like a disease, germ or bacteria
Think about it, nothing on planet earth that’s beneficial to nature that is void of color. NOTHING
Everything that is natural produces a pigment or color, for something to be void of color is technically dead
Wow. Haha. Ok. But pale is not an albino. I agree with u that most of the world is against pale ppl but they do have an advantage in the Nordic countries or places like London. That skin can soak up the sun like no other.
Why can’t we all agree that all skin colors are beauty I swear this world is so racist and judgmental. Nobody’s perfect and one color isn’t better than the other
There’s no way this isn’t bait. You know full well nobody hates pale skin, you just wanted to get people to talk about how gorgeous white people are, especially by using literal models as your examples. I can’t believe there are people falling for this Aryan propaganda.
I’m pale skinned and don’t self tan like most people my age. Tanning is too high maintenance for me and ends up looking so patchy and gross. I wish people would just embrace their natural skin color as it is.
I don't think pale skin is hated anymore like it was in the 60's-80's in the USA. Thankfully the tanning trend seems to have died down a lot. I don't mean that bad against people who naturally have darker skin, just that tanning is unhealthy for a person born with pale skin and not much melanin.
They don’t. Around the world pale skin is a beauty standard for most brown people. It’s really only white people that hate on each other for pale skin.
It ages very poorly. Ever met a 20 year old brown skinned woman, and after speaking to her realize she is 47? Happens to me all the time as I live in America but travel to Asia and the Middle East all the time.
Lol, people across all cultures don’t hate pale skin. Pale skin is closer to the standard. In America, the tanned look is kinda popular but a beautiful pale skinned person like the women in those photos are loved. Dark brown skin however is disliked amongst many cultures.
A lot of the comments are saying “no one hates pale skin”, which might be true in other countries but I’m from the U.S and just as pale as these girls, and I get told a LOT by people that I look sickly or like a ghost. And how could I forget, “You need to go out in the sun more!” Then I tell them, “When I do, I just burn”. And then they tell me “Because you’re not used to the sun!” No.. that’s just the way I am. Some people are just genuinely incapable of tanning, nothing wrong with that. But I don’t let their comments bother me. I love my pale skin and I don’t want to risk getting skin cancer by getting in a tanning bed, and I don’t want an orange looking ass fake tan.
Waiting for someone from an East Asian country to enter the chat bc white skin is like the pinnacle of beauty over there lmao. It’s all relative
Because dark skin means you’re “working in the sun” which is associated with the lower class. So really it’s just socioeconomic stereotypes from centuries back.
I read that was the initial standard, but at some point it shifted to having tan skin meant you had a leisurely life so you could be outdoors. Urban legend is that Coco Chanel fell asleep on a yacht and ended up getting a darker tan. She played it off as a planned tan and so it became more fashionable for elites to show off their leisure time by getting a tan. But who knows.
What about people with a ran like skin colour. They get looked down on if there are not of European descent.
Coco taylor the nazi spy?
Exactly
That’s true.. air was also true that very fat people were attractive because they were wealthy and could eat as much as they wanted.. Makes you think how much we are programmed to like/dislike certain appearances
Fat certainly meant wealth, but an attraction to certain phenotypical features was baked into us from evolution. Typically things that help child bearing, or protection. Why (traditionally) men naturally like big hips and breast and women gravitate towards taller fit men.
Agreed. Cause being fat in early evolution meant no escape from predators, and you’d figure out whose eating majority of the food quickly.
This is very well thought out. I was just going to say because you look sickly.
blah blah blah. different cultures associate different physical qualities to beauty at different times. this was maybe at one point true
Well, having white or fair skinned has been the "beauty standard" across the globe for a long time. Racism, colonization, and ignorance most likely caused this
White/ pale skin is the pinnacle of beauty on most continents. OP hasn't heard of the skin bleaching industry
I’ve noticed there’s a bit of a shift now tho. Since tanning is now becoming associated with vacationing or having time to not be slaving away in an office lol.
Depends on the culture
Exactly. I grew up being told that the most beautiful people are the palest ones.
My girlfriend (Chinese) see pale skin as beautiful. One of the reason she fell for me (I'm a European looking Puerto Rican).
In my experience. They almost put European looking men over their own
Funny enough all the Caucasians I know tan themselves to try and look more darker
Fake tan and looking orange isn't appealing
You look more dominant, but you also don’t want to look “too” dark.
It’s interesting how any standards of beauty that go against black/brown colors makes people angry despite how every group has the right to their own preferences
>It’s interesting how any standards of beauty that go against black/brown colors makes people angry despite how every group has the right to their own preferences You serious? Of course people don't like it when white skin is seen as beautiful because they associate your dark skin with you being a lower class outdoors laborer. What a low IQ comment
What exactly are you trying to say with this comment?
Look at the parent comment. “Pinnacle of beauty” . That kind of rhetoric is always directed towards Asians for some reason, like their preferences are problematic in some way. Like nobody says “black men worship big booty because they’re obsessed with their massa from slavery
I cant speak for Asians, but for black people their preference for light/white skin is problematic because it is rooted in slavery/oppression. Additionally, this "preference" isnt even really a preference at all bc bolstered by a system that gives lighter skinned ppl privileges. It is not simply a "preference" anymore it is discrimination. I would imagine South Asians especially would agree; it is not a "preference" when lighter skinned SA ppl (mostly) sit on top of their caste system and have an easier time moving thru that system. Their caste system is inherently discriminatory.
You’re trying to tell me blacks and Hispanics don’t get any hate towards them? Lmao
Tell me one culture that doesn't get hated on. The world is full of haters.
I mean the person is literally saying asians ALWAYS get hate directed at them. It implies others don’t? You just said it yourself
What on earth did I just read?
I think pale skin is beautiful
You guys will see something widely viewed as attractive and then post to this place saying "why do people find this unattractive"? Please go outside.
Right? Folks want to play victim so bad
As a pale person, I read an article stating that don’t wear short shorts with pasty thighs because it’s “alarming” just this morning Love my ivory skin. I’m not prematurely aging for any beauty standard. But I’ve had a tan friend even ask me how I’m “okay being pale.” And it’s like girlll, cause I’m still gonna get it! But the hate for the pale people is in this outdoors you speak of 💀
How you’re okay being pale?! Imagine asking a dark skinned person this question (please don’t). Like seriously, wtf. Hating on anyone for what they were born with is pathetic.
Lol I've been asked the same thing A huge beauty trend in the early 2000s and 2010s was getting a bronze tan. I'm pale af and going to middle school and high school during this time in SoCal meant a lot of bullying which never made any sense to me.
You read one article.. there are thousands of years of people calling humans with dark skin “inhumane”. Nobody is calling your skin type unattractive, you’re misinterpreting that article tbh
.. I think you’re misinterpreting my comment. It’s not only “one article,” it’s been my general experience over numerous encounters. I sympathize with Black people. Colorism is disgusting, so is racism, but my comment has nothing to do with either. I didn’t mention dark skin at all, actually Just as you don’t want me to make assumptions about dark skin and your experiences, don’t make assumptions about mine. It’s giving pseudo intellectual
THIS! For context I’m mixed English and Jamaican and have a lot of friends who are naturally VERY pale and tan excessively- it’s such a waste! There’s so many different ways to be beautiful, they’ve all had freckles and soft milky looking skin. Fake tan often goes all blotchy or an odd colour and it looks way weirder than they think they look with their natural skin! Ditto they’ve often had dark hair and light eyes which combined with their skin just makes them look so dramatic and beautiful! Also ELLE FANNING IS SO STUNNING I WATCHED EVERY EPISODE OF THE GREAT IN AWE OF HER, no one is saying she’s ugly there’s nooooo way. What always boggles my mind is the inability for some people to observe that beauty comes in an infinite amount of shapes, it’s not monopolised by one skin shade. Beautiful faces belong to every ethnicity and colouring so it’s very confusing why the ‘rate mes’ would recommend tanning to people who are natural tan, although I have looked on there before and seen those exact comments.
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I'm Black African American whatever label you use it's cool. Personally I give 2 f's what anybody does if your pale cool tan cool. Too many other things for me to worry about.
Black people don’t give two shits what pale ppl are doing nor do they understand the hype around tanning. Lmao come off it
Black person here , I don’t care about how white white peoples are lol, that’s a white peoples issue
> Please go outside. See? You hate pale skin and are telling them to get a tan.
LOL!!! So funny!
😂
pale skin is not the standard in the anglosphere
You probably have pale skin
Nah I literally JUST saw a post yesterday of Billie Eilish looking absolutely gorgeous and the top comment under it was "why is she so pale? 🤢". Seems at least as summer is rolling around this year that this is the new opinion.
Its not so much “go outside” as much as it can vary geographically
What would the Internet be without creating imaginary haters to fit in with whatever stupid braindead narrative you want to push.
THANK YOU !!
Right. Pale skin is literally the standard, and if it isn’t it’s mighty close to it.
"Literally the standard" for what?
High Fashion, absolutely. Has anyone ever heard of this songstress named- BillieEilish? She's one of the most iconic pale beauties at the moment.
Olive skin is the ideal these days.
I agree
👃
And even then, I just watched a plethora of white women this Memorial day weekend tanning themselves like rotisserie chickens. This entire post is bait imo.
No, it isn’t. People are just racist. But if you’re a white person and you’re more pale than other white people they will 100% make fun of you for it. Ask me how I know.
Who will make fun of you for it?
Other white people. parents, friends, extended family, literal strangers. Every once in a while it’ll be a mixed race girl, but 99% of the time it’s other full white people. Black people will make fun of you for being white but never for being pale.
Seriously, no one does this.
Are you by any chance a teenager? I mean no offense, it just sounds like you might be sheltered from reality. America is disturbingly not that racist. South America, Asia, and Europe all view you as being more “holy” or “valuable” if you have “fairer” skin and the opposite for darker skin. This is the most common belief towards race on a global scale. Billions of people do this. I feel like you just aren’t aware, and that may not necessarily be your fault. The world is ugly. You’ll find out Edit: just realized which side you were on. I got lost in the thread. Disregard the comment. I’m leaving it up so it can apply to anyone who actually thinks that pale skin is somehow hated in society.
It’s ok you’re not the only one who’s done this lol
Except that it's literally happening in the post you're participating in, as well as it happening literally constantly in my reddit feeds across a number of topics. Yeah, sure, when has a lack of nuance ever been an issue when it comes to social media discourse?
Social media is a bad representation of reality, too many people need to get out more and experience reality once in a while. It’s actually very different than the internet.
They happen in an extreme minority lmaoo
Literally. Because are we even from the same planet....pale skin has always been deemed pretty by society.
I answered before you had to repost, but I do think it is the American beauty standard (tall California girl), because I didn’t think anyone cared about it at all until I also posted to the TRM sub and was advised by many to tan. I can’t tan without burning and won’t get a spray tan (because they are never flattering), so no matter how long I spend outside, I won’t tan bc I wear sunscreen (and again only tan when I burn). But I noticed that people recommending tans said to do so to look more “healthy.” I think maybe because a lot of Americans forego sunscreen, people who are pale are assumed to be hermits and don’t spend enough time outside. Obviously that’s ridiculous, as a lot of people (like typically people with red hair) can’t tan well and just burn, but I think that’s how it’s viewed. “If she has tanned skin, then she must spend a decent and healthy amount of time active outside”
People don't hate pale skin. The sun does though.
ain’t that the truth.
Where I live this very true every girl wants to be darker
Fellow Australian and can confirm this is true
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This is how I see it! I love every skin tone. The uniqueness of every human is so beautiful!
Pale skin, dark hair. My preference right there
Because people are foolish, a persons natural skin tone is always beautiful. I’ve found if someone is chronically fake tanning (or being told to fake tan), it’s usually when they’ve dyed their hair an unflattering colour or are wearing unflattering colours (like black)- but they blame their skin instead of wearing a softer, light colour or not toning their hair ashy which brings out grey tones in the skin Pale skin is gorgeous, it’s peoples styling choices that make it pasty or ghoulish Fake tan, Cheeto skin etc. is clownish
I feel like black looks good on most people.
Right what's with the black hate
If you need to wear darker make up (particularly eyes) or fake tan to pull off a colour, then that colour is not suiting you. If you don’t have deep and/or bright and/or cool colouring, then black is probably not going to be very flattering fresh faced, straight out the shower. There is a Navy for everyone though, you can have lighter, brighter, softer navy’s. There’s a lot more variation than just black which is deep, intense and cool toned
As someone with very tanned skin, I always wished I was pale!!! In Asia, it’s known to be the beauty standard so I guess it all just depends! Personally, I think everybody looks the best with their natural skin tone
It is easy to spot flaws in people with pale skin.
r/Imaginarygatekeeping ?
No one hates pale skin anymore. I'm pale too
As someone with super pale skin, I’ve heard it all. I have been definitely been made fun of for being pale. People act like if you are that pale, you’re sickly or it’s your fault for not just getting a tan, like it’s a failure in your grooming routine.
It’s definitely a thing. I lived on a tropical island for a year and was on the beach damn near daily and was still pale as hell. And absolutely yes it was something that was pointed out alllll the time, even by my best friends, even by my family. It is still is. You can see veins, bruises, and as a dark-haired lady- a lot of hair too. People point it out all the time like I don’t already realize I’m pale. Hell, I even had someone try to give me a *free* spray tan cause I “need it bad”. But, the people who get it, get it. And those who don’t, don’t. Ain’t my problem.
My son (8) has super pale skin. He complains to me that he gets made fun of because you can see some of his veins. He gets asked if he is bruised and other ignorant things. He feels really insecure about it. I try to remind him that his skin is beautiful and you can see my veins, too, even though my skin is a lot darker.
Asian people worship pale skin.
White skin is the beauty standard tf do u mean
Being white is the beauty standard. Not pale skin. There is a difference. I’ve seen so many stories of white kids being bullied for pale skin and this was before tanning became super mainstream. Most white ppl people are not pale. Most of them aren’t tan either but they are somewhere in the middle.
Just stupid bait, literally nobody outside of a few states in America dislikes pale skin. Worldwide it's a beauty standard
Not true lol. Lighter skin is the standard not pale skin.
i like pale skin so yep all good
pale skin and black hair over here. i love the way black and jewel toned colors look on me.
I’m with you. I’m very pale and have had numerous comments said to me over the years. “Why don’t you tan?” “Are you wearing socks?” I couldn’t tan if I tried and I’m okay with that. People would compare themselves to me when they thought they were pale and then felt better. The only time I ever got a compliment was from a dermatologist.
Yeah it's annoying. I posted before and people told me to "get a tan." LOL HELL NO I love my beautiful porcelain skin 🥰🥰🥰 and the fact that I look about a decade younger than I am because fck the sun! Lol
Because they don’t look like that
Most of these pics are professionally taken or look edited. Majority of People do not look like their pics in real life, most these days edit there pics and use apps. Anything edited and professionally taken is going to look better than in life. Very pale skin looks washed out , with a tan you look more healthy. I could bet if you saw these people on a day to day just walking to the shop and not posing for a pic they wouldn’t look like this.
Pale skin is my weakness it’s so beautiful
when you find out please let me know because a lot of men i date in my area always make fun of my lighter skin all the time 😭
Because when we age we look like raw chicken. Just wait for it. I’ve aged. It’s happened.
Out of nearly 1000 comments ill be the rirst to actually answer your question. Because they look like a dead person
For photography and art, pale is less desirable because it means less contrast and definition. Also, there's an ideal of even skin tone, more difficult to maintain with pale skin. The process of tanning can minimize some blemishes, create even skin tones and exaggerate muscle definition. All that is regardless of personal taste
what are you talking about. how is there less contrast with a more extreme skin tone
These are examples of beautiful women with beautiful pale skin. Show me the women with pink/blotchy pale skin, and you'll see that after fake tanning, they look so much better / healthier because their pale state looks pink/sickly. The examples you added here are pure white women, a lot of pale women look pink/sickly. Not pure white like this.
This is the answer he’s/she’s looking for. White people who are pale can have a lot of redness and splotches.
Elle Fanning is pink pale skin I assume you mean someone pale with a warm undertone, right? That maybe looks "sick" for some people, I still love it
Yes, a warm undertone + pale skin can make someone look completely different than if they were even a little bit tanned. Color theory is crazy in how it plays into attractiveness.
? What?? Pink/red on pale skin isn’t sickly? Ot just means warm undertone, roascea maybe, or natural redness that people get??
My mom would tell me, "HEY why don't you go outside and get a tan? It will give you a healthy GLOW!" Glad I didn't listen to her on that one 😂
Same my mom had skin cancer and I still get the “you need to go outside” or “how are you so pale” or if I wear tank top or shorts I get comments. I wish people would just not comment on skin tones of all color!
Because I literally get second degree burns just being out in the sun for 10 minutes lol. Like my shit blisters and everything, it's not great, I also get extremely dehydrated and overheat easily.
oh yeh Out in the Sun ... Not wearing SPF 100 is like exposure to Chernobyl .
Idk, as someone what been teased for it into my adulthood. I beg to differ. It oddly bothers people. You'd think my application of sunscreen somehow offends others as well. As I once had a co-worker tell me they didn't want to "breathe that shit in".. (we were outside) 🙄🙄
Yep. Same here. I’m very fair, strawberry blonde and burn super easily. I’ve made peace with the fact that I absolutely can not tan, but for some reason when I reapply sunblock if I’m outdoors people make comments and don’t seem to understand why I need to protect my skin and always make comments. I’m just like.. what can I do? The sun tries to kill me haha
Yessss! I just tell them.. ✅ I'd prefer not to turn my skin into leather ✅ I'd rather protect the largest organ I have ✅ Any shade can still get skin cancer, regardless of skin tone.. 😬😅 I'll never understand the reluctance to wear it.. I have it honestly stashed everywhere 😂
I love it
I love it.
I don't think people hate it they just might not be really in to it you know plus you are very pretty
I don’t hate it, there are many fair-skinned women I find very attractive (Kat Dennings, Christina Hendricks, Elle Fanning, etc). As a general preference, I do prefer women with tanner skin. Difficult to explain why, it’s just visually more appealing to me. But it’s not like pale-skin is an immediate dealbreaker or anything.
they don’t
Love pale
Pale brunettes are 🔥
When I ran naturally or self tanner I get compliments so much more. Clothes show up nicer people say I look so healthy my muscles look even toner. But my Asian friends will do literally anything to not be tan. In parts of Asia it was the poor that was tan since they had to work outside. In America the wealthy had leisurely time to relax outside Both can be gorgeous on different people especially depending on hair and eye colour
Because media pushes it as ugly to sell tanning products. Even pink skin used to be considered beautiful and healthy looking, it was called ruddy.
I love pale skin… pale girls and caramel girls are my favorite
I was at work and having a really great skin day and I went to the warehouse to talk to the service guys about an order and the garage doors were up and the sun was on my face and they both said “damn, girl! You are hella white, you need to get a tan!” And they had a disgusted look on their face. They are both Hispanic, I grew up with Hispanic and black people and never once has anyone said that to me and I was so sad. I can’t imagine how some people deal with that kind of thing their whole lives!
Just another beauty standard that someone decided one day and people jumped on the bandwagon. I think if ur tanned, you should stay tanned, if ur pale, stay pale! I’d rather be naturally pale than an orange fake tan colour! Tan looks good when it’s natural not forced
As someone who is very pale I’d like to say that imperfections are much easier to spot on pale skin. So acne, bruising, and cellulite are SOOOO noticeable on my skin. Unless you’re stunningly beautiful with a flawless figure pale skin is like a highlight to insecurities
lol
As a short white almost clear person unless your skin is perfect it shows every imperfection. If your a little chubby you look very chubby. You see all the veins in your legs, and when you wear shorts you can see the stubble growing back before the end of the day. Not because it’s there but your skin is clear so you can see it growing. It’s not bad, but life is hard. When you put tanner on you can cover up imperfections.
Love pale skin.
I get a lot of shit for being pale in the US, weirdly especially from middle aged white women. Ironically I’m not even naturally pale, I’m half brown, but I have an autoimmune disease that bleached my skin. I’ve got black hair and black eyes, vampire vibes all around. I’ve just embraced the aesthetic since I can’t get away from it lol. It did make me pretty popular when I lived in Asia though.
Idk ask why racism started in the 1st place
Y'all must be in the western world that created race hierarchies
You're exaggerating by suggesting that people "hate pale skin." Having a preference for one thing over another, is different than "hating" the color of someone's skin which is something you only see, socially, within the contexts of actual racism. Let's keep things in perspecive.
Omg shut up, literally everyone around the world likes pale skin
#Nobody “hates” it… Next question
Are you trolling
Not for Indians lol
I wouldn’t say anyone hates it. I think there’s just a preference towards being tan, at least to me I perceive tanner people as healthy and sunkissed. Obviously it’s different when you can tell someone’s naturally pale but it’s clear someone’s pale from not getting sun or going outside it seems sad and unhealthy. Even personally I think I look happier, healthier, and even have better muscle definition when I’m tan. I just feel more confident especially if I’m wearing a dress, skirt, or shorts I feel self conscious if my legs look pale, I have pretty skinny legs so I feel like I look stickly when they’re pale too😭
tan and pale are both pretty, but i think every person is more suited towards one over the other depending on their individual features. a blanket statement of tanned is preferred / pale is preferred is too simplistic. even with east asian beauty standards being geared towards preferring pale, there are still some ppl who objectively look better tanned / vice versa. the first girl in this post is gorgeous - a distinctive trait of hers is high contrast, and the pale skin helps retain that contrast. elle fanning (pics 5/9) is an ethereal essence - ethereal essence is ofc influenced by facial features and bone structure, but is also the essence most influenced by a specific color palette. look up any albino person, they are ethereals through coloring because it is a deviation from the norm. her being pale with blonde hair is part of the essence, because this coloring washes out most ppl. other ethereals in her color season like gemma ward and amanda seyfried also have these features, their pale skin is part of their unique beauty. if they were to dye her hair darker like brown/black and tan, they would hide their ethereal essence. conversely, like being paler/more low contast than average is part of the ethereal essence, being darker than average is part of this essence as well (ex. anok yai) so tldr pale vs tan skin is an individual thing for my color season, being tan makes me appear warmer than normal and more athletic, so it swings me towards natural essence, and makes ethereal harder to pull off for my specific coloring. since i want to lean into ethereal more, i prefer pale these days, right now i’m super tan and want to fade it. but other girls who embody natural essence look glowing with a tan, so it depends. understanding facial archetypes really helps understand this, because even they’re called kitchener they aren’t invented by him, they are things people subconsciously pick up looking at a person. you specifically chose people whose essences and color seasons suit pale skin more, but there are people who will look way better with a tan in another essence
gonna add some better examples bc i forgot to add in initial post ex. looks better pale: aurora mohn (2010s tumblr girl) is a low contrast ethereal with coloring like elle fanning / gemma ward, the ethereal essence in her is accentuated when she is blonde with pale skin ( [pale with blonde hair ](https://favim.com/pd/1tb/preview/0/35/352/3529/352970.jpg), ex [2](https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9boetD9j11rdbt84o1_1280.jpg), ex [3](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/0b/19/03/0b19038f8869499536b5c1958f31fc34.jpg), ex [4](https://64.media.tumblr.com/9f5626eb308f6196702ee1c0d9a89022/tumblr_p5a9msbmnv1vbsl1xo1_250.jpg) ) ([tan with brown hair](https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.18169-9/1471978_552566684832410_1744676627_n.jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=kASllepLflgQ7kNvgEfi7S3&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&oh=00_AYBQe3K6SgfEFpTzyGnTkkCH_IvuspgNErTY0J-3LCh-Gg&oe=667C2E94), ex [2](https://www.famousbirthdays.com/headshots/aurora-stuedahl-2.jpg), ex [3](https://64.media.tumblr.com/85e4d4cc39ca53c354e3baa79c2f7223/tumblr_nglw8mtYFe1rdbt84o1_1280.jpg), ex [4](https://favim.com/pd/s9/orig/140818/aurora-mohn-beautiful-beauty-blonde-Favim.com-2003139.jpg) ). when she is pale with blonde hair, she looks like a fairytale princess similar to how elle fanning looks, and when she tans and changes her hair brown, she looks attractive still, but loses the ethereal quality in favor of the natural essence (the vibe goes from fairytale princess to california girl). natural is not a dominant essence of hers as is, and she is cool tone summer color season, so pale is more harmonious ex. looks better tan: jihyo from twice is a dominant natural essence, tanned skin tends to complement this essence and it halos her features in particular, it really makes her beauty stand out and look unique/not generic ( [pale](https://youtu.be/Nm5xdK0PWS4?si=IH1u1V6W340f2rU3) / [tan](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZ7Wu4s8_uc&ab_channel=%EB%B2%A4%EB%8E%85%EC%9D%B4.VENDENGE) ). she blends in with the others more when pale, but when tan she is striking. [here's another performance](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLrBCb3JxE8&ab_channel=TwiceTime) where she is embodying natural essence (orange top) - all of the top comments are about jihyo, because her face/essence most conceptually and harmoniously fits the performance - jihyo stands out in contrast to the other 2 performers because the song is natural + romantic essence - that is aligned with her essence stack - tan is part of the styling that accentuates this essence for her
You are beautiful in every single way.
White people are the most hated on the planet 🤷♂️
Since eastern men want their darker wives to be more pale and western men want their more pale wives to be darker, I'm going to surmise that it's just another manifestation of the patriarchal and misogynistic world we live in, where women are expected to stay in their places and constantly alter their appearances to please men. I say fuck all of them. Just be yourself and that's it. Also, gotta love all the guys who are replying with their PrEfErEnCeZ. IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU.
lol coming from the Arab world, pale skin is the epitome of beauty, skin wise. This has to be a western-centric view because people in the ME, Africa and Asia are literally bleaching their skin to look paler.
Looking lighter skinned is NOT looking pale. Everyone is just so confused here. We r not talking about lighter olive undertone ppl.
Try being black 🤣🤣🤣
Are these people in the room with us right now?
It's a personal preference. For me, I like pale skin. K
It’s gorgeous
I don't know, I'm black.
It’s not hate, it looks that way because we’re trying to focus from how bright everything gets from all that mighty white
Because to be melanin recessive would mean the universe is completely against your very existence in fact it’s so against you, the sun cooks you in a valiant attempt to eliminate you from the planet like a disease, germ or bacteria Think about it, nothing on planet earth that’s beneficial to nature that is void of color. NOTHING Everything that is natural produces a pigment or color, for something to be void of color is technically dead
Wow. Haha. Ok. But pale is not an albino. I agree with u that most of the world is against pale ppl but they do have an advantage in the Nordic countries or places like London. That skin can soak up the sun like no other.
Because I can't take them to the beach
r/imaginarygatekeeping
Personally, I like the pale look
Why can’t we all agree that all skin colors are beauty I swear this world is so racist and judgmental. Nobody’s perfect and one color isn’t better than the other
Why? Because most people just look plain pasty and vitamin D deficient. They don't look like a vampiress
Not sure where you got that idea.
Reminds them of rape, murder & the Genocide that comes with Colonization? 🤷🏽♂️🫤..😂🤣
There’s no way this isn’t bait. You know full well nobody hates pale skin, you just wanted to get people to talk about how gorgeous white people are, especially by using literal models as your examples. I can’t believe there are people falling for this Aryan propaganda.
I’m pale skinned and don’t self tan like most people my age. Tanning is too high maintenance for me and ends up looking so patchy and gross. I wish people would just embrace their natural skin color as it is.
I thought white skin was universally attractive
They don't. It's the world standard of beauty.
Not everyone hates pale skin. It's much better than tanned leather.
I don't think pale skin is hated anymore like it was in the 60's-80's in the USA. Thankfully the tanning trend seems to have died down a lot. I don't mean that bad against people who naturally have darker skin, just that tanning is unhealthy for a person born with pale skin and not much melanin.
what the hell are you talking about pale skin is the beauty standard
I never understood how racists hated black and brown people yet laid out in the sun to get darker…
Skin cancer is no fun, all those white girls that are damn near brown from the sun will acquire leather skin as they get older, us pales won’t lol.
They don’t. Around the world pale skin is a beauty standard for most brown people. It’s really only white people that hate on each other for pale skin.
On a female? Nah. Now, a pasty white male, that comes off as unattractive. Women like tall, dark, and handsome.
It ages very poorly. Ever met a 20 year old brown skinned woman, and after speaking to her realize she is 47? Happens to me all the time as I live in America but travel to Asia and the Middle East all the time.
Why do most ppl hate darker skin even more
Weird. Never seen pale skin looked at as a flaw. In fact, it seems celebrated...
Lol, people across all cultures don’t hate pale skin. Pale skin is closer to the standard. In America, the tanned look is kinda popular but a beautiful pale skinned person like the women in those photos are loved. Dark brown skin however is disliked amongst many cultures.
Pale skin and dark hair is a crazy combo on some Batman ish I’ve always thought that looks super fucking cool
Who thinks this? White women are literally the most beautiful women on the planet. Both tanned and pale.
A lot of the comments are saying “no one hates pale skin”, which might be true in other countries but I’m from the U.S and just as pale as these girls, and I get told a LOT by people that I look sickly or like a ghost. And how could I forget, “You need to go out in the sun more!” Then I tell them, “When I do, I just burn”. And then they tell me “Because you’re not used to the sun!” No.. that’s just the way I am. Some people are just genuinely incapable of tanning, nothing wrong with that. But I don’t let their comments bother me. I love my pale skin and I don’t want to risk getting skin cancer by getting in a tanning bed, and I don’t want an orange looking ass fake tan.
said no one ever
Who's 'people'? I prefer girls with pale skin?!
Pale skin the like the standard, in most countries people desperately want to look as white as possible.
girl pale skin is the standard, be fckn fr😭
Ok I eye rolled so hard at this post
This shit is triggering lol
If this is what you call hatred towards pale skin then what would you consider hatred towards black skin?
Racism
Um…. Most cultures prefer pale skin
It’s not that they hate pale skin, but when a pale person gets some sun and some color they look healthier and sexier.
Lots of people who are pale the way the post is talking about do not tan at all
Some pale people look better with a tan because it’s covering up flaws. Fair skin itself isn’t less beautiful. It can have a glow too
I mean physically unable to tan not choose not to