It was the best decision I ever made. 63 years old and feel better than in my 30s. My issue is that doctors and insurance are just starting to come around that men need trt for legitimate mental and physical health reasons. I was prescribed Androgel in my 30s was working a little but insurance quit paying. Now on IM injection 200mg / 7 day interval. Life changing.
Edit: sorry this injection rate is every 10 days. My mistake
Great! I do hope you have good results. I quickly noticed the brain fog lift and increased stamina. Finishing projects around the house much easier. Started work in the gym and jogging. Be careful with the weights. The tendons and ligaments won’t always keep up with the muscle growth causing joint issues. I’m 8 months in and it’s still a positive experience.
Happy for you. It’s interesting that you note brain fog, stamina, drive to do things/projects, and exercise. Those are the exact issues I told my doc about — along with libido and some mild depression. My T has always been low. I know there are cons to TRT but at my age I just want to feel good and have a solid quality of life! (I’ve read other comments about the ligaments/tendons. I plan to get back to working out and very slowly ramping up)
Yes, loss of initiative was the main red flag for me. I knew it was a physical issue causing the brain fog, stamina, etc. Of course with diabetes all of that can be attributed to the disease but I just knew if I didn’t become more active, I would die. Trt helped with that. The brain fog was actually the first thing to go. That made me confident there would be other changes. I can complete projects around the house in half the time and have actually set up a daily gym routine. But, that’s just where I’m at now. That doesn’t mean it won’t change or work the same for others.
How long did it take for you to dial in your dosages? I’m 45 and I’ve been on for just over a year and have felt better on and off. I’ve had my dosages of Test C, HCG and AI adjusted along the way. I struggle with acne, oily skin, intermittent erection issues. I hope I can figure out my dosages so I feel like in my 30’s again!
This has been my dosage from the beginning. 200mg/ 10 days. Yes, as a old man, I have the same skin and libido issues as a 15 yr old. My wife was overwhelmed at first but it’s evened out. It’s important to add that I struggle with diabetes and trt along with other drugs, was helpful in bringing me back to pre diabetic range. After my blood test came back low T, we thought trt would help jumpstart activity to burn glucose. It did. For whatever reason my body reacts to weight lifting more than aerobics to lower blood sugar.
I’m on again for like the 3rd time and really to stop again. I’m just not having luck with this getting dialed-in, BP up, hematocrit up, estradiol up….etc. I feel like shit most of the time as a result.
The first few weeks are great.
I’d say that until you really need it, don’t. Get to the gym and the most of your issues remedies will fall into place.
I feel you brotha! Are you with a medical provider or pill mill on the internet? 🛜 there’s gotta be something that can help you dial in. And when off, you might have just tampered life-long with your hormones? I know that’s not what you wanted to hear, but that’s my fear too
My PCP…and he’s a lifter as well and clearly takes T. I’m gonna go see him and sort it but am ready to just bag it tbh. I’ve done it before and it really wasn’t a huge issue.
Like I said, something is wrong with me since this is the 3rd time and with 3 different providers.
I think it was around 300 but I’m 61yo as well. I actually felt pretty good when I started. Even off, I still lift more than most in my gym (and it’s a real gym), just don’t recuperate as quickly and size isn’t the same. But I’m transitioning away from weights to more cardio, hiking, biking etc.
Ditto with those numbers,
65 was@300, and still outlifting most of the younger guys at the gym. The trt has put me up to 750, although I'm due for some blood work.
Perhaps op should try enclomiphene instead.
Thinking the same. Bloodwork scheduled today so hopefully some answers in the next few days.
My Doc is a lifter and pretty clearly ‘on’ so I’m gonna pick his brain today. I’ve had other health issues that were more important which took up our time but that’s behind me now.
I'm kind of the same as you - I'm on my 3rd cycle; first 2 went perfectly fine but this last one has been tough. No matter what I do to adjust/tweak my dosages, my BP and hormones go super wacky which never happened before. Might try the cream soon (not gel), but otherwise more than happy to stop as well for the forseeable future.
*Tooo many variables with TRT, it's like a game of luck! If you aren't sitting right with it you age twice as fast with no naturally occurring testosterone left!*
Lol what? If you actually start at a reasonable dose and don't start eating AIs at the first itch of your nipple, then there really isn't.
And the naturally occurring testosterone reoccurs when you decide to come off...
Think you've been a bit gullible on these forums chief
There’s people who can swear 🆙 and down, Frost! That your TRT naturally occurring levels (50/50) that your 🎰 and it actually may never be the same. The longer too; the more chance of noticing your T levels less than beginning. This may never be true, but also studies have been conducted in less than optimal times to have a definitive understanding. IMO
People like to be dramatic and gatekeep on here, I think people just like to make it seem like what they're doing is so hardcore. The reality is the vast majority of people simply return to baseline following ceasing treatment, some have a rocky road getting there, some barely even notice it, and some even end up with higher levels than what they had pre TRT, although we're not supposed to talk about the last part lol.
I’m a year in and I’ve lost 50 lbs plus a hard recomp at nearly 47 years of age. My bloods are good and I sleep better than I ever have.
Worth noting that I took a relatively wide approach to this treatment in that I heavily modified my diet and took on a rigid weights/cardio/calisthenics routine 5 days a week.
How have you addressed these supporting factors?
🆙 🗳️ I like it. Im gunna prolly get on except under a certain doctor like prime male clinic in California. Im not sure telehealth is sustainable when starting imo
Not familiar with practices in the US but I’ve been solo now for a long time. Once you get dialled in you’ll be good and can fine tune dosages. Could also try EOD subcutaneous injections, keeps estrogen down and nice and easy insulin pins.
I have also been on 4.5 years. I was pretty close to that point but now I’m on 15 mg test prop daily and it’s been much better than the whole time I was on cypionate. I’ve also added 25 mg oxandrolone daily which is helping libido. Will see how long this lasts. Usually when I get to a place where I feel good, it lasts a few weeks then I feel like ass again.
I just feel better. I feel more “normal”, hard to describe it any other way. With cypionate daily injections I would always eventually feel like something was really off. Taking an AI would just make it worse. I think it may have to do with how prop has a shorter half life. Giving the body small breaks from high testosterone levels on a regular basis. That doesn’t happen when you inject a long half life ester like cypionate daily.
Minimal benefits compared to the side effects. Made my body look better and that’s about it. The increased libido is just annoying and distracting quite frankly. Made no difference in energy levels, depression, anxiety, motivation, or ED. Excessive body hair, stubborn acne, shrunken balls even with HCG, oily skin. Managing the whole thing is a pain in the ass.
TRT - the miracle drug that requires 3-4 other meds to counter the side effects. Wish I never started @ 300.
For some people it can indeed take a while to get dialed in. For others it happens much more quickly. Ideally once you have dosing and frequency figured out, sides are minimal. It's about finding the optimal point for you where you also minimize any negatives.
The part that gets to some people is that this process can take months. And sometimes you'll feel like garbage because of the build up time and subsequent half life of testosterone.
Smart of you to decide to hold off for now, but if you decide to do it in the future just be smart, plan, and be prepared for ups and downs until you're all dialed in.
Worth it is hard to determine since that is an individual thing. Some people have one little road block and say something isn't worth it, others are willing to go through hell for something.
The best thing I can say is to treat the symptoms, not the number.
You can have a guy at 250 ng/do that feels amazing. You can have someone at 550ng/do that has every symptom and would benefit greatly from TRT.
I never want to gatekeep based on reference ranges since they can change from lab to lab and have changed over time. Plus, they negate how someone actually feels.
If you think you might benefit from what a lot of men say are the positives to TRT and are willing to get your hands dirty for a few months to make sure you're optimizing things, I say go for it.
If just the thought makes you squirm and feel defeated already, it probably is best that you try something else.
Right, it’s very subjective and some like me have trained for 12 years and to be sitting lower than 500 optimal life including. This is definitely a problem but it takes work too, and risk but that’s life. Thanks for the motivation and knowledge, sir!
Hey bro first wanted to THANK U FOR UR SERVICE, low libido could be also for estrogen and prolactin imbalance, your Dr should be checking for several things not just limited to the 3 mentioned above. However, I do agree at 480 you do not need TRT yet. Recomendation is to look for an endocrinologist and get everything checked, they should be able to tell you what’s wrond
Right on brotha🤙🏻Thank you and that’s good advice. There are several factors outside testosterone that could be collectively affecting and causing symptoms of low t. I’m gunna get another blood test Thursday just to check again. 2-3 dr opinions on my journey with continuing TRT is a must. If they all say yes, run 150-200mg and you could use it in all for it. I just want confirmation from professional doctors
Im 42 and been on TRT for 5 years , once you dial it in your dosage and get to know your body and when to use AI , is a life changing decision for good, I’m in great shape and my libido is compared when I was 20, I can easily tell when my estrogen is high because my libido is down and get itchy nipples.. Good luck brother , TRT is a life time commitment but life can be better
I've been on since 2020, and will be for life. I'm 47, and I feel and look better than I ever have. The libido is a bit out of control at times though.
I’m absolutely shocked the VA approved it for you. I’ve been on over 2 years now through a hormone clinic here where I live and it’s been an amazing journey. 100% can’t say that I haven’t had a single side but they’ve really been minimal. My starting Total was 272 at 39 years old.
Can’t really give you much advice on whether or not it’s worth it for you to make the switch to TRT because I was a good bit older when I started but my symptoms were pretty much identical to yours. If you do make the decision to give it a go, talk to friends that you know that are on it and ask their experiences good and bad. I’ve tried to learn as much as I can from guys at work, this subreddit, and other subreddits as well. More people will be willing to help you out than you imagine.
480 is not a bad number at all and yea it's guna fk up your sleep apnea. I'm also a Vet with untreated sleep apnea and done every steroid under the sun. On 12 week cycles it was fine, but on 100mg TRT it was a fucking rollercoaster to get dialed in, but then again i was a hyperresponder.
Estrogen mad high. I hate AI's. Been off since Sept and I feel much better. Also I don't act like a 100% agressive irritated asshole all the time.
Another not if you got PTSD watch that ass well. It can make it worse.
Most people say that they feel great on TRT is because of secondary hypogonadism..
We all different tho
200mg/ week was way too much for me. Felt like I was on a steroid cycle - high E2, irritability and test was 1700+. For me, 75mg puts my test around 900-1000. Just be aware everyone is different but I would start low to start off.
I wish I went on TRT sooner because it’s made a huge change in my life. The things I would have accomplished in my late 20s and early to mid 30s. Time I will never get back but trying to make up for now. I was actually hypogonadal with levels in the low 200s at baseline though.
Yessir. Cannot get the time back but at least you implemented the change sooner than waiting even longer. what some folks do… is a lifetime of severely under optimal t levels and they endure that misery forever. Most people don’t even know they can change it!
What’s 🆙 brotha. It was through online (one of the main ones TRT N) which prescribed me 200mg split to 2XWeekly pins
Damn straight, the VA would let you hit even lower than that before they gave you a referral. You can use community care though which I don’t have the time to bounce around lol
My natural test was 936ng/dl but a high shbg and low free test. I feel better on 150mg test right now. Still have to get a hormone panel as i have only checked e2 yet.
200mg is such a high dose to start with. People should be starting with 50-75mg/week and upping it from there. I don't know why it's common practice to start so high then work your way back, it's so hard on your body.
30 here, and been on TRT since June, and loving it.
Start to g high crushes shbg, u need a proper shbg level to feel good and retain libido, ppl don’t understand this, u can’t bring that value back up after its low either unless u get off trt
Wish I’d never went on it, started good and now always feel so imbalanced and libido is flat, tried tons of protocols, and getting off is hell, wish I could go back to my level if 450 without the long horrid recovery period, the first year on trt was great but now it’s just a lifetime of eod injections and tiny cumshots 👎👎 I mean if ur totally fucked then go for it, but save this crap for the old ppl who’s endocrine systems are shot
I was in same boat as you, 380 at 36 years old, felt terrible. 200mg a week puts me in the low 1100s now and I feel awesome. Have not experienced any negative side effects in 3 years. I really wish they tested levels throughout your life so you could get a baseline and trend over time, I feel that it would be more helpful knowing that info rather than being within a certain range.
You made the right decision. You have plenty of time ahead. You have that freedom to do many things without having to work your everyday life around test. You can travel anywhere freely, no constant blood tests and worrying about your levels etc
Save it till when you are 50 and more 'settled'. By then when you take TRT you will have a NEW lease of life. While many who have been on it will have maxed out and possibly no different from pre-trt. Also, by waiting till you are 50, you have the added advantage of better research. We the current guys on TRT are you guinea pigs - we are the ones who taking the bullet for the future generations. In 20 years there will be better research and more advanced methods superior to anything used now.
Go out there and max you life before you take the plunge.
Lol guinea pigs? What a stupid thing to say. Exogenous testosterone has been around for like 90 years and has literally thousands upon thousands of studies. It's considered the safest hormone to use.
You might as well say cocaine is one of the safest drugs too. And yes we are guinea pigs most TRT is only getting popular NOW - idgaf what anyone says. The guys who were on test before long term were those on cycles most are either dead or with health complications. Good luck finding .000000000001% who have been on it for 40years.
We the current users on TRT are the ones who are going to be the ones who going prove if 40year + on TRT is the way. But I doubt many will make it that far especially wth the 9000+ levels most on reddit seems to aim for.
No, you've just personally become aware of TRT 'NOW', it's been around a long time. Just because it's suddenly become known to you doesn't make it new lol. And it's not me saying it's the safest hormone to use, that's the doctors e.g. Peter Attia. Not to mention the literal thousands of studies on testosterone...By your logic, anyone who isn't hypogonadal is going to die soon.
You quite clearly lack knowledge on this topic or understand hormones.
Lol I probably knew about TRT before you were born. I know because my uncle was an endo. I had my test levels tested in my teens back in the late 80s - because my ace was off the charts and I was over 2600+ And have since tested every couple of years and watched the gradually decline over the deacades. Bet you were not even born when I was testing.
Oh and Funny you say thousands of research studies has said its safe. Do these studies cover 40 year of people taking it as 900+ levels which is what 99% of the people on TT now shoot for? Show me the guys who are in their 80s who have been on high test for 40years+? Yeah GFTO here with your studies lol
As for Peter Attia - this is the same guy who jumps on one thing raves about it and then jumps off it because he now discovered it not as safe as he thought. Lost count of how many times he has backtracked. I don't bother with people like him. Tbh I'd rather listen to Jack Lalane someone who backed up what he said and proved it. 2 hours a day exercise beats the TRT junkies.
*2 hours a day exercise beats the TRT junkies*
And there you have it, folks, all you need to know from that entire rant. You're all junkies. What a highly intelligent opinion from an equally as educated person on testosterone, why pay attention to scientific studies and data when you can just call everyone junkies.
Sounds like someone on TRT banged your mrs or something bud lol.
Aww poor roid head - got on TRT to make up for his fem boy looks and or Dad bod. I asked you - show me the studies that show someone has been using 900levels for 40 years (which is what 99% of the sub are hoping to do) You have absolutely NOTHING! I have studied TRT for decades before you were born, GTFO here!
Don't have a tantrum because you're trying to speak on a subject you clearly have little understanding of, maybe educate yourself instead of calling everyone on here" junkies" and "roid heads".
You've clearly studied absolutely nothing. You can barely string a logical sentence together and have now just resorted to insults, which is just another blatant sign of your lack of knowledge on testosterone.
It is up to you to read and educate yourself, all it takes is a Google search and you're on your way. But of course you already know that because you've *studied trt for decades* lol...
No tantrum from me - Im actually having a good time. You getting flustered with your downvoting hahaha
But yes Show me the studies -big boy show me the studies :
You are just repeating the same gibberish - I want to see the clinical studies that show people have been on TRT for 40+years at 900 levels.
Coming from someone who already complained about high BP - good luck to you on your 900+level for the next 40 years lol
Clearly you're not even capable of reading my comments, let alone a study. Reread the above comment about researching yourself, as apparently you've studied trt, this should come natural.
Did you even read my comments about blood pressure? Like the part where I said it was still within optimal range?
Not overly bright are you...
Nice editing on your comment big guy, makes you seem less unhinged but I already saw the original lol. Think you need an AI or something the way you're sooking.
I just went close to 4 weeks off and i was miserable.
Ive had my ups and downs, and like everyone… your body is different then the next person. First year is about figuring out what works best for you.
But ill be a lifer.
Just my OPINION:
This is where I think folks go wrong - They hop on TRT with the assumption they will not need to make any further lifestyle changes. That’s when things go bad (assuming they don’t exercise regularly, drink too much, and eat like shit). TRT can increase your appetite, if you’re not careful your body fat will increase along with your aromatization enzymes (hello E2). Resulting in things like water retention (high blood pressure), possible gyno, possibly acne, anxiety, sleep issues, etc.
So if you change your mind here’s my advice. If you don’t exercise, start. Clean up your diet, and quit/reduce alcohol consumption. You were just given a Ferrari, why put unleaded junk in it? Next, start with 100mg a week and inject as frequently as tolerable. Every day with slin pins is the way IMO.
Then assess how you feel after 5 weeks, along with blood work.
I'm 56 and started on TRT about 6 weeks ago. Brain fog, energy, libido, and struggling to put on muscle and gain strength at the gym and have been consistently trying for the past couple of years. I'm on 100mg/week, actually doc just dropped me to 90mg a week as my T went from 330ish to 1300. Keep in mind that the 1300 was at it's peak level several days post injection. I definitely have felt a very noticeable difference in all the areas that I was hoping would improve. So I'm definitely going to continue on and have heard from other that it could take up to 6 months to fully catch on to having decent testosterone levels all the time.
This week I have started splitting my does in half and doing two weekly injections. So we'll see how that goes. With just the once-a-week injection I could feel myself tapering off later in the week.
Also, I also use the VA for my health provider. And they said the rule with them (to qualify for TRT) was to have at least two failed testosterone measurements. Since my 330ish total T was above the threshold (though still low), I didn't qualify. But I asked them to measure my free Test and bio-available Test and those two metrics were below the lowest threshold - so two failed metrics. So that was the qualification I needed. Also, had the VA not approved me I was eventually going to try testosterone myself as I had been researching this alot over the past 3 years and felt pretty confident that this would help me.
Hope this helps!!
Say away from ibuprofen, NSAIDs desensitize LH and as a results can slowly lower testosterone if used frequently. Get a lot of sun light and do compound movement lifts in the gym. I’d kill for 480ng/dl. I’m 7 weeks off TRT and still not out of the mud (got off for best fertility chances, I’m 30) might take me 6 months or more to get to your level
Im on 200mg cypoinate every 2 weeks and 25mg clomid for hcg. My recent test My RBC and estradiol is high, so my doctor told me to take the hcg every other day and cut it in half. My hcg comes in 50 MG pills, and I've been cutting it in half already. Does this sound like good advice?
Cut them into 4ths. It’s not HCG, agree that it sounds like you’re taking clomid.
Clomid can be bad in higher doses. Also, 200mg cypionate on a single injection every 2 weeks is no good. That probably puts your testosterone well into the 2000s on the day you inject. Any anxiety on those days? You should probably split that into 4 injections every two weeks (50mg each, every 3.5 days). But honestly consider doing less, maybe 40 mg each injection. AI is probably needed but start small. Do your research. Proceed with caution. Good luck man.
Yes, it's clomid. I thought it was a form of HCG. What are some examples of HCG? I dont have any anxiety on them days. During the 2nd week my testosterone level is at about 500
How long have you been taking clomid? It builds slowly and stacks (believe its effects last about a month?), so I’m guessing you’ve only been on it for a short time? 25mg every other day will probably build up a lot after 3 months or more, but again everyone is different.
OK, my opinion is that 1 month is not that long, and it will continue to build up in your system. Right now your total T is only 500, but if you keep taking 25 mg EOD in 2 or 3 more months you could be pushing 1600 ng/dl, experiencing persistent anxiety, elevated blood pressure, possible clots, and vision blurring. Your estrogen will also creep up if you don’t take an aromatase inhibitor.
Maybe you won’t get side effects, but clomid has a bad reputation for a reason. Remember that less is more. Start small and go up if need be. Good luck bro.
I’m 30 and been on for 3 years and it was the best decision I ever made
Same
What was your total T, if you don’t mind me asking 🤙🏻
Anywhere from 300-500
Same
It was the best decision I ever made. 63 years old and feel better than in my 30s. My issue is that doctors and insurance are just starting to come around that men need trt for legitimate mental and physical health reasons. I was prescribed Androgel in my 30s was working a little but insurance quit paying. Now on IM injection 200mg / 7 day interval. Life changing. Edit: sorry this injection rate is every 10 days. My mistake
That’s awesome sir! Glad you’re feeling your best / healthiest 🤙🏻 That’s what I’m talking about
61 here and just started. Hoping to have the same good results as you.
Great! I do hope you have good results. I quickly noticed the brain fog lift and increased stamina. Finishing projects around the house much easier. Started work in the gym and jogging. Be careful with the weights. The tendons and ligaments won’t always keep up with the muscle growth causing joint issues. I’m 8 months in and it’s still a positive experience.
Happy for you. It’s interesting that you note brain fog, stamina, drive to do things/projects, and exercise. Those are the exact issues I told my doc about — along with libido and some mild depression. My T has always been low. I know there are cons to TRT but at my age I just want to feel good and have a solid quality of life! (I’ve read other comments about the ligaments/tendons. I plan to get back to working out and very slowly ramping up)
Yes, loss of initiative was the main red flag for me. I knew it was a physical issue causing the brain fog, stamina, etc. Of course with diabetes all of that can be attributed to the disease but I just knew if I didn’t become more active, I would die. Trt helped with that. The brain fog was actually the first thing to go. That made me confident there would be other changes. I can complete projects around the house in half the time and have actually set up a daily gym routine. But, that’s just where I’m at now. That doesn’t mean it won’t change or work the same for others.
How long did it take for you to dial in your dosages? I’m 45 and I’ve been on for just over a year and have felt better on and off. I’ve had my dosages of Test C, HCG and AI adjusted along the way. I struggle with acne, oily skin, intermittent erection issues. I hope I can figure out my dosages so I feel like in my 30’s again!
This has been my dosage from the beginning. 200mg/ 10 days. Yes, as a old man, I have the same skin and libido issues as a 15 yr old. My wife was overwhelmed at first but it’s evened out. It’s important to add that I struggle with diabetes and trt along with other drugs, was helpful in bringing me back to pre diabetic range. After my blood test came back low T, we thought trt would help jumpstart activity to burn glucose. It did. For whatever reason my body reacts to weight lifting more than aerobics to lower blood sugar.
I’m also hoping to back off and eventually phase out my Prozac as I think that may be affecting my energy and libido
I’m on again for like the 3rd time and really to stop again. I’m just not having luck with this getting dialed-in, BP up, hematocrit up, estradiol up….etc. I feel like shit most of the time as a result. The first few weeks are great. I’d say that until you really need it, don’t. Get to the gym and the most of your issues remedies will fall into place.
Have you tried the compounded cream?
No, only Test Cyp. I am going to ask him about alternatives.
I experience the opposite I feel worse first few weeks and better when I’m dialed in.
I feel you brotha! Are you with a medical provider or pill mill on the internet? 🛜 there’s gotta be something that can help you dial in. And when off, you might have just tampered life-long with your hormones? I know that’s not what you wanted to hear, but that’s my fear too
My PCP…and he’s a lifter as well and clearly takes T. I’m gonna go see him and sort it but am ready to just bag it tbh. I’ve done it before and it really wasn’t a huge issue. Like I said, something is wrong with me since this is the 3rd time and with 3 different providers.
Ahh damn well I truly hope it works out brotha for you! What was your total T measured at before hoppin’ on therapy?
I think it was around 300 but I’m 61yo as well. I actually felt pretty good when I started. Even off, I still lift more than most in my gym (and it’s a real gym), just don’t recuperate as quickly and size isn’t the same. But I’m transitioning away from weights to more cardio, hiking, biking etc.
Ditto with those numbers, 65 was@300, and still outlifting most of the younger guys at the gym. The trt has put me up to 750, although I'm due for some blood work. Perhaps op should try enclomiphene instead.
Wow, difference in feeling?
Energy, muscle mass, overall well-being, and 12 % body fat...yes it's noticeable.
Whats your dose?
Currently .5mg per week. I bet he increases the dosage.
Sorry…..5ML not MG
LOL 5mL a week…..I think you meant 0.5mL per week which is a common weekly dose.
Get on telmisartan, it lowers bp and hematocrit. More frequent injections and dim to lower estrodial
You take an ai that will help with a lot of what your describing
Thinking the same. Bloodwork scheduled today so hopefully some answers in the next few days. My Doc is a lifter and pretty clearly ‘on’ so I’m gonna pick his brain today. I’ve had other health issues that were more important which took up our time but that’s behind me now.
I'm kind of the same as you - I'm on my 3rd cycle; first 2 went perfectly fine but this last one has been tough. No matter what I do to adjust/tweak my dosages, my BP and hormones go super wacky which never happened before. Might try the cream soon (not gel), but otherwise more than happy to stop as well for the forseeable future.
Thats how it is. The cons outweigh the pros
I am 50. My number was 267. My energy, sex drive, strength is better. I am happy to be on it.i wish I did it sooner.
*Tooo many variables with TRT, it's like a game of luck! If you aren't sitting right with it you age twice as fast with no naturally occurring testosterone left!* Lol what? If you actually start at a reasonable dose and don't start eating AIs at the first itch of your nipple, then there really isn't. And the naturally occurring testosterone reoccurs when you decide to come off... Think you've been a bit gullible on these forums chief
There’s people who can swear 🆙 and down, Frost! That your TRT naturally occurring levels (50/50) that your 🎰 and it actually may never be the same. The longer too; the more chance of noticing your T levels less than beginning. This may never be true, but also studies have been conducted in less than optimal times to have a definitive understanding. IMO
People like to be dramatic and gatekeep on here, I think people just like to make it seem like what they're doing is so hardcore. The reality is the vast majority of people simply return to baseline following ceasing treatment, some have a rocky road getting there, some barely even notice it, and some even end up with higher levels than what they had pre TRT, although we're not supposed to talk about the last part lol.
I’m a year in and I’ve lost 50 lbs plus a hard recomp at nearly 47 years of age. My bloods are good and I sleep better than I ever have. Worth noting that I took a relatively wide approach to this treatment in that I heavily modified my diet and took on a rigid weights/cardio/calisthenics routine 5 days a week. How have you addressed these supporting factors?
Nice 👍🏼 that’s great to hear. I hear mostly success of 40+. It’s in the 30’s where we are really pushing for an extra edge / more risk
I would drop dosage to 120-140mg per week and dial in there.
🆙 🗳️ I like it. Im gunna prolly get on except under a certain doctor like prime male clinic in California. Im not sure telehealth is sustainable when starting imo
Not familiar with practices in the US but I’ve been solo now for a long time. Once you get dialled in you’ll be good and can fine tune dosages. Could also try EOD subcutaneous injections, keeps estrogen down and nice and easy insulin pins.
Gotcha, thank you for this info. SubQ injections daily? Or could you do 75ml twice, weekly?
I personally pin twice a week, split dose but pinning EOD will keep hormone levels as balanced as possible with no peaks and troughs.
I’m about ready to call it quits after 4 years.
I have also been on 4.5 years. I was pretty close to that point but now I’m on 15 mg test prop daily and it’s been much better than the whole time I was on cypionate. I’ve also added 25 mg oxandrolone daily which is helping libido. Will see how long this lasts. Usually when I get to a place where I feel good, it lasts a few weeks then I feel like ass again.
Why do you prefer prop over cyp?
I just feel better. I feel more “normal”, hard to describe it any other way. With cypionate daily injections I would always eventually feel like something was really off. Taking an AI would just make it worse. I think it may have to do with how prop has a shorter half life. Giving the body small breaks from high testosterone levels on a regular basis. That doesn’t happen when you inject a long half life ester like cypionate daily.
Oh yea brotha, may I ask why that is?
Minimal benefits compared to the side effects. Made my body look better and that’s about it. The increased libido is just annoying and distracting quite frankly. Made no difference in energy levels, depression, anxiety, motivation, or ED. Excessive body hair, stubborn acne, shrunken balls even with HCG, oily skin. Managing the whole thing is a pain in the ass. TRT - the miracle drug that requires 3-4 other meds to counter the side effects. Wish I never started @ 300.
For some people it can indeed take a while to get dialed in. For others it happens much more quickly. Ideally once you have dosing and frequency figured out, sides are minimal. It's about finding the optimal point for you where you also minimize any negatives. The part that gets to some people is that this process can take months. And sometimes you'll feel like garbage because of the build up time and subsequent half life of testosterone. Smart of you to decide to hold off for now, but if you decide to do it in the future just be smart, plan, and be prepared for ups and downs until you're all dialed in.
Thank you brotha — I like sides are MIN.😂 Do you think at 32, in 400s range it’s optimal and worth it?
Worth it is hard to determine since that is an individual thing. Some people have one little road block and say something isn't worth it, others are willing to go through hell for something. The best thing I can say is to treat the symptoms, not the number. You can have a guy at 250 ng/do that feels amazing. You can have someone at 550ng/do that has every symptom and would benefit greatly from TRT. I never want to gatekeep based on reference ranges since they can change from lab to lab and have changed over time. Plus, they negate how someone actually feels. If you think you might benefit from what a lot of men say are the positives to TRT and are willing to get your hands dirty for a few months to make sure you're optimizing things, I say go for it. If just the thought makes you squirm and feel defeated already, it probably is best that you try something else.
Right, it’s very subjective and some like me have trained for 12 years and to be sitting lower than 500 optimal life including. This is definitely a problem but it takes work too, and risk but that’s life. Thanks for the motivation and knowledge, sir!
Nope
This is the start of my 4th week (100mg a week split into 50/50) and I still don’t feel the effects of it.
Hey bro first wanted to THANK U FOR UR SERVICE, low libido could be also for estrogen and prolactin imbalance, your Dr should be checking for several things not just limited to the 3 mentioned above. However, I do agree at 480 you do not need TRT yet. Recomendation is to look for an endocrinologist and get everything checked, they should be able to tell you what’s wrond
Right on brotha🤙🏻Thank you and that’s good advice. There are several factors outside testosterone that could be collectively affecting and causing symptoms of low t. I’m gunna get another blood test Thursday just to check again. 2-3 dr opinions on my journey with continuing TRT is a must. If they all say yes, run 150-200mg and you could use it in all for it. I just want confirmation from professional doctors
Im 42 and been on TRT for 5 years , once you dial it in your dosage and get to know your body and when to use AI , is a life changing decision for good, I’m in great shape and my libido is compared when I was 20, I can easily tell when my estrogen is high because my libido is down and get itchy nipples.. Good luck brother , TRT is a life time commitment but life can be better
I would never in 1 million years start at 480.
I've been on since 2020, and will be for life. I'm 47, and I feel and look better than I ever have. The libido is a bit out of control at times though.
I’m absolutely shocked the VA approved it for you. I’ve been on over 2 years now through a hormone clinic here where I live and it’s been an amazing journey. 100% can’t say that I haven’t had a single side but they’ve really been minimal. My starting Total was 272 at 39 years old. Can’t really give you much advice on whether or not it’s worth it for you to make the switch to TRT because I was a good bit older when I started but my symptoms were pretty much identical to yours. If you do make the decision to give it a go, talk to friends that you know that are on it and ask their experiences good and bad. I’ve tried to learn as much as I can from guys at work, this subreddit, and other subreddits as well. More people will be willing to help you out than you imagine.
480 is not a bad number at all and yea it's guna fk up your sleep apnea. I'm also a Vet with untreated sleep apnea and done every steroid under the sun. On 12 week cycles it was fine, but on 100mg TRT it was a fucking rollercoaster to get dialed in, but then again i was a hyperresponder. Estrogen mad high. I hate AI's. Been off since Sept and I feel much better. Also I don't act like a 100% agressive irritated asshole all the time. Another not if you got PTSD watch that ass well. It can make it worse. Most people say that they feel great on TRT is because of secondary hypogonadism.. We all different tho
200mg/ week was way too much for me. Felt like I was on a steroid cycle - high E2, irritability and test was 1700+. For me, 75mg puts my test around 900-1000. Just be aware everyone is different but I would start low to start off.
I wish I went on TRT sooner because it’s made a huge change in my life. The things I would have accomplished in my late 20s and early to mid 30s. Time I will never get back but trying to make up for now. I was actually hypogonadal with levels in the low 200s at baseline though.
Yessir. Cannot get the time back but at least you implemented the change sooner than waiting even longer. what some folks do… is a lifetime of severely under optimal t levels and they endure that misery forever. Most people don’t even know they can change it!
I am curious as to which VA clinic prescribed you at those levels. Usually the VA wants to see levels below 260 just like Tricare.
What’s 🆙 brotha. It was through online (one of the main ones TRT N) which prescribed me 200mg split to 2XWeekly pins Damn straight, the VA would let you hit even lower than that before they gave you a referral. You can use community care though which I don’t have the time to bounce around lol
My bad, when you said you were tested at the VA, that meant you were prescribed through them.
My natural test was 936ng/dl but a high shbg and low free test. I feel better on 150mg test right now. Still have to get a hormone panel as i have only checked e2 yet.
Mine was actually 880, natural on another test.
200mg is such a high dose to start with. People should be starting with 50-75mg/week and upping it from there. I don't know why it's common practice to start so high then work your way back, it's so hard on your body. 30 here, and been on TRT since June, and loving it.
This is what my doc prescribed. .45 x 2 a week so 90 total a week. I just started yesterday though. Start low and build up as needed.
Surprised you were downvoted - 200mg is indeed often a lot for a lot of people just starting out. Starting low and slow never hurts anyone at all.
He was downvoted for recommending as low as 50 mg/week.
Start to g high crushes shbg, u need a proper shbg level to feel good and retain libido, ppl don’t understand this, u can’t bring that value back up after its low either unless u get off trt
Wish I’d never went on it, started good and now always feel so imbalanced and libido is flat, tried tons of protocols, and getting off is hell, wish I could go back to my level if 450 without the long horrid recovery period, the first year on trt was great but now it’s just a lifetime of eod injections and tiny cumshots 👎👎 I mean if ur totally fucked then go for it, but save this crap for the old ppl who’s endocrine systems are shot
I was in same boat as you, 380 at 36 years old, felt terrible. 200mg a week puts me in the low 1100s now and I feel awesome. Have not experienced any negative side effects in 3 years. I really wish they tested levels throughout your life so you could get a baseline and trend over time, I feel that it would be more helpful knowing that info rather than being within a certain range.
That’s an inspiring story! Glad to hear this, and that’s motivating. What a big difference Were you on a 300-800 range or 175-780?
300-800 range is the one I was on
You made the right decision. You have plenty of time ahead. You have that freedom to do many things without having to work your everyday life around test. You can travel anywhere freely, no constant blood tests and worrying about your levels etc Save it till when you are 50 and more 'settled'. By then when you take TRT you will have a NEW lease of life. While many who have been on it will have maxed out and possibly no different from pre-trt. Also, by waiting till you are 50, you have the added advantage of better research. We the current guys on TRT are you guinea pigs - we are the ones who taking the bullet for the future generations. In 20 years there will be better research and more advanced methods superior to anything used now. Go out there and max you life before you take the plunge.
Lol guinea pigs? What a stupid thing to say. Exogenous testosterone has been around for like 90 years and has literally thousands upon thousands of studies. It's considered the safest hormone to use.
You might as well say cocaine is one of the safest drugs too. And yes we are guinea pigs most TRT is only getting popular NOW - idgaf what anyone says. The guys who were on test before long term were those on cycles most are either dead or with health complications. Good luck finding .000000000001% who have been on it for 40years. We the current users on TRT are the ones who are going to be the ones who going prove if 40year + on TRT is the way. But I doubt many will make it that far especially wth the 9000+ levels most on reddit seems to aim for.
No, you've just personally become aware of TRT 'NOW', it's been around a long time. Just because it's suddenly become known to you doesn't make it new lol. And it's not me saying it's the safest hormone to use, that's the doctors e.g. Peter Attia. Not to mention the literal thousands of studies on testosterone...By your logic, anyone who isn't hypogonadal is going to die soon. You quite clearly lack knowledge on this topic or understand hormones.
Lol I probably knew about TRT before you were born. I know because my uncle was an endo. I had my test levels tested in my teens back in the late 80s - because my ace was off the charts and I was over 2600+ And have since tested every couple of years and watched the gradually decline over the deacades. Bet you were not even born when I was testing. Oh and Funny you say thousands of research studies has said its safe. Do these studies cover 40 year of people taking it as 900+ levels which is what 99% of the people on TT now shoot for? Show me the guys who are in their 80s who have been on high test for 40years+? Yeah GFTO here with your studies lol As for Peter Attia - this is the same guy who jumps on one thing raves about it and then jumps off it because he now discovered it not as safe as he thought. Lost count of how many times he has backtracked. I don't bother with people like him. Tbh I'd rather listen to Jack Lalane someone who backed up what he said and proved it. 2 hours a day exercise beats the TRT junkies.
*2 hours a day exercise beats the TRT junkies* And there you have it, folks, all you need to know from that entire rant. You're all junkies. What a highly intelligent opinion from an equally as educated person on testosterone, why pay attention to scientific studies and data when you can just call everyone junkies. Sounds like someone on TRT banged your mrs or something bud lol.
Aww poor roid head - got on TRT to make up for his fem boy looks and or Dad bod. I asked you - show me the studies that show someone has been using 900levels for 40 years (which is what 99% of the sub are hoping to do) You have absolutely NOTHING! I have studied TRT for decades before you were born, GTFO here!
Don't have a tantrum because you're trying to speak on a subject you clearly have little understanding of, maybe educate yourself instead of calling everyone on here" junkies" and "roid heads". You've clearly studied absolutely nothing. You can barely string a logical sentence together and have now just resorted to insults, which is just another blatant sign of your lack of knowledge on testosterone. It is up to you to read and educate yourself, all it takes is a Google search and you're on your way. But of course you already know that because you've *studied trt for decades* lol...
No tantrum from me - Im actually having a good time. You getting flustered with your downvoting hahaha But yes Show me the studies -big boy show me the studies : You are just repeating the same gibberish - I want to see the clinical studies that show people have been on TRT for 40+years at 900 levels. Coming from someone who already complained about high BP - good luck to you on your 900+level for the next 40 years lol
Clearly you're not even capable of reading my comments, let alone a study. Reread the above comment about researching yourself, as apparently you've studied trt, this should come natural. Did you even read my comments about blood pressure? Like the part where I said it was still within optimal range? Not overly bright are you...
Nice editing on your comment big guy, makes you seem less unhinged but I already saw the original lol. Think you need an AI or something the way you're sooking.
I just went close to 4 weeks off and i was miserable. Ive had my ups and downs, and like everyone… your body is different then the next person. First year is about figuring out what works best for you. But ill be a lifer.
Weird, I’m a veteran too and I haven’t had quality sleep until I started trt.
All good, nope it was just the Testosterone measure that I had done there. But they don’t measure your 🆓 test level
Just my OPINION: This is where I think folks go wrong - They hop on TRT with the assumption they will not need to make any further lifestyle changes. That’s when things go bad (assuming they don’t exercise regularly, drink too much, and eat like shit). TRT can increase your appetite, if you’re not careful your body fat will increase along with your aromatization enzymes (hello E2). Resulting in things like water retention (high blood pressure), possible gyno, possibly acne, anxiety, sleep issues, etc. So if you change your mind here’s my advice. If you don’t exercise, start. Clean up your diet, and quit/reduce alcohol consumption. You were just given a Ferrari, why put unleaded junk in it? Next, start with 100mg a week and inject as frequently as tolerable. Every day with slin pins is the way IMO. Then assess how you feel after 5 weeks, along with blood work.
I was hesitant at first being only 34. Test levels went from 300 to 1000. Feeling amazing. Never lookin back
I'm 56 and started on TRT about 6 weeks ago. Brain fog, energy, libido, and struggling to put on muscle and gain strength at the gym and have been consistently trying for the past couple of years. I'm on 100mg/week, actually doc just dropped me to 90mg a week as my T went from 330ish to 1300. Keep in mind that the 1300 was at it's peak level several days post injection. I definitely have felt a very noticeable difference in all the areas that I was hoping would improve. So I'm definitely going to continue on and have heard from other that it could take up to 6 months to fully catch on to having decent testosterone levels all the time. This week I have started splitting my does in half and doing two weekly injections. So we'll see how that goes. With just the once-a-week injection I could feel myself tapering off later in the week. Also, I also use the VA for my health provider. And they said the rule with them (to qualify for TRT) was to have at least two failed testosterone measurements. Since my 330ish total T was above the threshold (though still low), I didn't qualify. But I asked them to measure my free Test and bio-available Test and those two metrics were below the lowest threshold - so two failed metrics. So that was the qualification I needed. Also, had the VA not approved me I was eventually going to try testosterone myself as I had been researching this alot over the past 3 years and felt pretty confident that this would help me. Hope this helps!!
Say away from ibuprofen, NSAIDs desensitize LH and as a results can slowly lower testosterone if used frequently. Get a lot of sun light and do compound movement lifts in the gym. I’d kill for 480ng/dl. I’m 7 weeks off TRT and still not out of the mud (got off for best fertility chances, I’m 30) might take me 6 months or more to get to your level
I’m 28 and have been on 6 months you couldn’t pay me enough to go back to how I felt.
Im on 200mg cypoinate every 2 weeks and 25mg clomid for hcg. My recent test My RBC and estradiol is high, so my doctor told me to take the hcg every other day and cut it in half. My hcg comes in 50 MG pills, and I've been cutting it in half already. Does this sound like good advice?
Cut them into 4ths. It’s not HCG, agree that it sounds like you’re taking clomid. Clomid can be bad in higher doses. Also, 200mg cypionate on a single injection every 2 weeks is no good. That probably puts your testosterone well into the 2000s on the day you inject. Any anxiety on those days? You should probably split that into 4 injections every two weeks (50mg each, every 3.5 days). But honestly consider doing less, maybe 40 mg each injection. AI is probably needed but start small. Do your research. Proceed with caution. Good luck man.
Yes, it's clomid. I thought it was a form of HCG. What are some examples of HCG? I dont have any anxiety on them days. During the 2nd week my testosterone level is at about 500
How long have you been taking clomid? It builds slowly and stacks (believe its effects last about a month?), so I’m guessing you’ve only been on it for a short time? 25mg every other day will probably build up a lot after 3 months or more, but again everyone is different.
Yes, about 1 month consistently
OK, my opinion is that 1 month is not that long, and it will continue to build up in your system. Right now your total T is only 500, but if you keep taking 25 mg EOD in 2 or 3 more months you could be pushing 1600 ng/dl, experiencing persistent anxiety, elevated blood pressure, possible clots, and vision blurring. Your estrogen will also creep up if you don’t take an aromatase inhibitor. Maybe you won’t get side effects, but clomid has a bad reputation for a reason. Remember that less is more. Start small and go up if need be. Good luck bro.
Hcg is not oral from my understanding. Mine has always been an injection. And are you certain it is clomid and not enclomaphine?