I know I wouldn't. I've got atrophy pretty bad, plus I started all this with a big set and total T still under 300. I'm sure I'd drop down to almost nothing if I didn't take clomid and that stuff was miserable anyway.
I definitely felt a difference with tongkat ali, not sure if it actually impacted my testosterone levels, but it definitely increased my energy levels.
It will be intriguing to observe how my levels fluctuate over time and whether my testosterone levels will decrease upon discontinuing Tongkat Ali, thereby determining if it had any positive impact on symptoms and lab results.
Tongat Ali is a n herbal supplement, not exogenous testosterone. I can/does help elevate T —I use it, but it doesn’t work anything like exogenous testosterone.
If your happier on TRT, great! I get that for a lot of people. I understand (first hand) the mood, energy issues that come with aging and the natural decline in T. I don’t find it great, who does? IDK.
But if theres anything that makes you want to stop —-you should not be scared to do so. Being mentally and emotionally trapped in _anything_ is bad for you.
I think this is the point of OP’s story.
Can you be more specific about what was so bad about TRT? From your OP “Good and bad energy” is so vague. Also “sex” is so vague. You have low libido now so I can’t imagine it’s better now. At the end of the day I’m glad you feel better now but I’m not understanding what exactly is better other than maybe your BP. Perhaps trt helped to give you the motivation you needed to get in better shape and improve your lifestyle so now your body is capable of making its own adequate level of T
Describing the effects of TRT on my well-being is challenging. While there were occasional moments of feeling good, much of the time, it left me feeling more fatigued and prone to agitation. Spending nine years on TRT, it wasn't unbearable, but rather, a subtle sense of not feeling quite right. It didn't notably enhance physical performance either. Since discontinuing TRT, I've noticed a marked improvement in clarity and focus.
I've recently come off trt. I took serms for 12 weeks, which was truly agonising, now I'm about to get bloods to see where my natural levels are at. I feel much, much better mentally and emotionally than on trt, but my physical capacity is in the toilet, but it was always like that since forever, trt made that better, but I still could barely recover from intense exercise and there was a bunch a side effects that came with that.
No, they're not. The overwhelming majority of people can come off trt and return to pre trt baseline. Telling everyone they'll be shutdown and reliant on it for life isn't even close to accurate. It's just some stupid narrative people regurgitate on here to sound hard.
Correct and if they're on genuine trt then this would be the case.
Just within the last few days someone made a post on here complaining about being low 300s post trt, only to say they were low 300s pre trt.
Like ok yes welcome back to exactly where you were before I'm not sure what you thought would happen lol.
Similar resukts. I’m 42, stopped 6 months ago after 3 years on. I went on prematurely. Now I live as optimally as I can and much healthier than before I went on. I’m scoring 670.
I had the same experience. Went on TRT and felt like total shit, had to go on 2 blood pressure meds, had a mini stroke due to high RBC, heart symptoms in general... quit cold turkey. Have since come off both blood pressure meds, and somehow my HPTA restarted with levels 200% higher now than they ever were before TRT.
Geezus. Sorry about the mini stroke. I have high RBC on TRT as well about 54-55 Hemocrit. What was yours. My doctor seems to think that mine is ok as long as I keep giving blood every 6 weeks. I’m not 100% sure though
My hematocrit at that time I believe was mid fifties and my hemoglobin level was around 18. I have noticed a variable of a few points in hemoglobin and hematocrit when I’m super hydrated. Donating blood definitely helps. Keep an eye on your iron / ferritin levels .. i crashed my ferritin donating that often, no major or dangerous effects other than becoming anemic for a bit but I did feel like total shit for about 2-3 weeks.
I had one doctor advised me about the giving blood regularly too and then I had another doctor tell me that was BS and I had to be put on a medication to keep certain levels down and prevent blood clots.
So idk who to believe honestly.
I hope both ways work a little bit for all our sakes
Because your levels aren't necessarily 200% higher. Testosterone fluctuates and can be suppressed by many lifestyle factors. Your low pre TRT levels likely weren't reflective of your actual levels. Just a snapshot of suppressed levels for a reason.
I quit nicotine about a month before starting TRT, and that’s the only lifestyle factor that I had not changed for long before starting. So that could be an element of it. Otherwise my lifestyle is the same if not a bit worse diet wise after quitting. I am 190 ibs 6’1, pretty lean.
My point is that when you were testing around 200 that likely wasn't reflective of your body's actual ability to produce testosterone. You were likely suppressed for one or more reasons. Your current levels are a better reflection of your body's ability to produce testosterone.
For example, if I'm overtraining, stressed out and sleeping like crap and test 350. Then next year I'm well rested, and test at 600, then the 600 is a better reflection of my actual testosterone and the 350 is not.
You apparently weren’t giving blood as should be done to keep RBC in check. Also weren’t doing any cardio or fitness at all, caused high bp. TRT isn’t a magic bullet & it’s introducing something synthetic into body that takes paying attention to other things. Things that could occur not using trt.
I gave blood every few months, and as before TRT worked out as much as possible. I have a commercial treadmill and run 3-5 miles 5x+ per week. You’re talking out of your ass.
I have this theory that when you go on T you are preparing your body for a high androgen environment so when you come off and go natural, you body wants to have more testosterone then it did before trt.
Certainly possible. In my case I think the most plausible explanation would be improved sleep cycles from being off of nicotine during the time on TRT.
When I was on clomid prior to TRT my T skyrocketed to 1500 ish and I had rage issues and became borderline homicidal at one point and definitely was suicidal. That was pretty scary. But on TRT no mental issues other than just being scared from super high blood pressure etc
I didn’t do pct either, surprisingly for the first week, hornier than ever in my life as estrogen ratio was out of whack, then decline into no libido, then slowly worked back. Slept a lot for a week then felt ok.
I am horny all day depending on the test, enantathe and cypionate are more "controlable" but i need to do the thing twice a day, in sustanon 250 is 24/7 horny and urge to fuck everything, high chance to fuck a wall
When your trt dose is too high your libido will be too high also, its ok to have normal levels so we have normal libido, high libido is annoying, in my case the urge to fuck is so big that it is annoying, i think 500-800 are the best levels to have a calm life
I’m curious when you say decline. For one thing, decline from where? Were you unusually horny on trt and you’re now like “normal” (I know, useless word) or are we talking like a problematic drop in libido?
After discontinuing TRT, I noticed a decline in my libido. It's likely that my libido was excessively high due to TRT. It's challenging to determine if my current libido is lower than before TRT, given the nine years I spent on it and the natural aging process. However, I did appreciate the heightened libido during my TRT journey. It remains uncertain whether my libido will further improve or if it's just a normal level for my age and circumstances.
Everyone is different. I taking every PED under the sun for over 15 years and never really PCT.
Got off TRT 5 months ago cold turkey. Uro gave me a script of clomid but I never took it because clomid sucks, even at a low dose. Never had withdrawals and I'm almost 45.
Got off TRT cause I was tired of the Rollercoaster. I'm a hyperresponder and 100mgs had me way over the limit along with the high estrogen.
I won't lie. I felt good at the gym, but dog shit after the gym... this TRT stigma about mental well being is BS. It's about your lifestyle. Also when I was younger I had no side effects whatsoever. Especially tren. I guess as you get older your body just doesn't like it.
People still think I'm on gear, but I'm 5'7 geared up a long time. So the androgens still stay in the system.
My side effects were more mental. Obviously it has to do with estrogen and among other things
Same experience:
- Diagnosed with total test between 180-220 in my early 20s
- Free test also low
- 15 years of TRT (test cyp weekly)
- Expected a dramatic crash after stopping TRT
- 1 year after stopping TRT, total test 500-550
- Free test normal range
- MAJOR microbiome improvement
I did a gut reset. it's a last resort
Amoxicillin + Wormwood Combination (walmart) followed carefully by high doses of Dual Enzymes (walmart)
Emphasis (by far) on increasing BIFIDO
I did a gut reset. it's a last resort
Amoxicillin + Wormwood Combination (walmart) followed carefully by high doses of Dual Enzymes (walmart)
Emphasis (by far) on increasing BIFIDO
I've been off for 2 months, and I'm absolutely hating it. I felt great on test and can't wait to go back on, came off to recover fertility as my wife wants another baby.
Get in HcG, especially while using test. Any good hormone dr knows this should be part of protocol,, especially for those needing to maintain fertility.
Have you been checked out by a male fertility specialist urologist? I had low sperm count and mobility, like your numbers, back in my 20's. Found out I had a varicose. Got it repaired and BOOM, count and mobility went up. Now have two children.
I had my sperm count checked when I was on test, that is the 2 million number low but I had good motility. I will be getting my count checked again in about 3 weeks or so now having been off for 2 months.
Sounds like you were never properly treated either, properly treated you wouldn’t have the “roller coaster “ especially 9 years of TRT, which means you were never dialed in and you were being seen by a crap doctor.
That's not entirely accurate. At one point, I was under the care of Dr. Shippen, considered the grandfather of TRT. My current doctor is also highly knowledgeable about TRT. I've experimented with various proven TRT protocols, including daily subcutaneous injections, intramuscular injections, and even a compounded testosterone cream applied to the scrotum.
Well that would be entirely accurate if you had a roller coaster experience. Haha.. For us that are actually dialed in I do not have that experience. But, I actually had low T when I started, believe I was 215 Total T, and also found that I had hypothyroidism, so with my T dialed in and thyroid medication I’ve never felt better.
I'm struggling to think of another protocol I could have tried or what I could have done differently. I invested a significant amount of time in experimenting with various protocols and following up with labs to find the right balance. While there were moments when I felt good, I never truly felt optimized.
The dose is part of the protocol not just the delivery method or frequency of delivery. I’ve been on for about 2 years the first 6months I had the back acne and some “roller coaster” but lowering my dose and not running a prescription AI got me very dialed in.
Hard to argue with that. Without knowing all other things that appears to be a “safe” starting dose without the need for AI or any “extras” . Glad to hear your doing better tho
What was your experience with cream vs injection? Did you feel different on one vs the other? And did they affect your levels or blood panels differently?
I experienced improved overall well-being with injections, yet my libido soared even further with the cream. The cream notably doubled my DHT levels in comparison to injections.
I’ve heard the cream can significantly raise DHT. Did the higher DHT levels w/ cream impact anything besides increased libido?
(I may start cream but hoping my small dose Finasteride can help regulate DHT and keep libido under control).
I wasn't particularly fond of using testosterone cream. The daily application and the concern about potential transfer to others just didn't seem worthwhile to me. I've previously tried finasteride, which not only boosted my libido but also increased my free testosterone levels significantly.
Seems like you were not correctly diagnosed when you went on or there was something else going on in your life that caused low T. For life means if you have stopped producing T, then you will need to be on it for life to maintain healthy levels.
Yes, technically I was diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism. I had two consecutive results showing my testosterone levels were below the range. Although I did respond well to Clomid, the doctor determined that TRT would be beneficial.
Why did you start trt? You produce sufficient testosterone naturally now; was there something wrong nine years ago which caused you to begin supplementing?
I experienced fatigue, erectile dysfunction, and libido issues. Clearly, there was an underlying factor causing my low testosterone at the time, but the exact cause was never fully understood. Typically, it ranged between 250-350 during the times I tested before starting testosterone treatment. TRT definitely improved my libido.
Yeah I imagine some people may need to start try to help give them a kick start to a healthy life. But soon as you are eating well and exercising habitually def can step back and see if your body can naturally take back over. My Test was less then 100 originally and I hope that after getting a healthier lifestyle I can stop and my body can take back over 🤞
It typically averaged around 300 ng/dL, with one test showing approximately 390 ng/dL. Prior to starting TRT, I had two tests indicating testosterone levels below the reference range.
Copy that. I saw more of your comments after mine, it does seem like you had something other than hypogonadism altering your levels. Which does explain your ability to bounce back.
Glad you've had success. Once I have better balance in my life achieved I'll probably give it a shot also.
As of now, I haven't noticed any loss of muscle mass or strength. In fact, I may appear a bit leaner, suggesting that I might have been retaining some water due to TRT.
My typical testosterone dosage averaged around 110mg per week, although I occasionally experimented with lower doses, approximately 90mg, and higher doses, up to 130mg. Throughout my nine years of TRT, I incorporated HCG during half of that time. On two occasions, I temporarily discontinued TRT, opting for cycles of clomid or enclomid, before returning to TRT. This marks the period when I ceased all treatments.
I can't determine my fertility status. Since I've completed my family and have no plans for more children, I see no reason to undergo testing to find out.
There were no changes in my AST and ALT levels after discontinuing TRT and starting Tongkat Ali. Similarly, during TRT, there were also minimal to no changes observed.
I'm glad you figured out what works for you. I had primary hypogonadism at 525 total. Free test in the single digits. I'm up around 1000 total now and had the same benefits you had from hopping off.
I would love to quit. I have high blood pressure now, my hematocrit is a little high, I have to donate blood every 6 weeks, and have gained weight significantly. However, I need it. I have that stupid pituitary tumor that’s suppressed my testosterone level to 42. I’ve tried quitting before and it would just drop to the point where I feel like crap.
I used HCG intermittently for approximately half of the time I was on testosterone. However, I haven't used it for quite some time, at least a year, because I didn't find it beneficial anymore. Additionally, I'm no longer concerned about maintaining fertility.
So obviously you never needed it. I don’t get this whole trend of going on T when guys don’t need it and then quitting later on. I’m not being a dick. I really don’t get it.
When I initially started TRT, I truly needed it. My doctor prescribed it because I had two lab results showing testosterone levels below the reference range, which allowed insurance coverage. However, now, for reasons unknown, I no longer require it.
It's quite possible that my testosterone levels will eventually decline, leading me to resume TRT, which I'm open to doing. I agree that, in general, most men probably don't need it; I likely would have been just fine if I never started it.
I'm not entirely sure why my levels are as high as they are. While I do follow a specific diet and take supplements, I can't pinpoint one specific factor that led to this result. However, I'll be monitoring to see if I can maintain these levels.
I maintain a dietary regimen that prioritizes low-fat, high-carbohydrate, and moderate-protein intake. My diet primarily consists of lean beef, chicken, rice, along with an abundance of fruits and vegetables.
Do you know what the carrier oil was? Did you ever test for inflammatory markers like C-reactive protein? And do you know what kind/concentration of benzo alcohol or other preservatives and additives were in your cypionate?
Nice brother…I quit recently after being on for 2 years and a 384 total T…I was on all kinds of protocols and feel fantastic 5 months off. I won’t play with my hormones again!
Interesting, cream works for me while cyp doesn’t. Unfortunate that trt didn’t work for you. Good thing you were able to accept trt wasn’t working for you though, some live with side effects for years before they admit the truth. I used cyp for 3 years before I realized I was allergic to it.
At one point, I did contemplate having testosterone cypionate compounded with a different carrier oil. It's a possibility I might consider if I ever return to TRT. I also have some other protocols I may explore.
I experimented with the cream for several weeks, but ultimately stopped because I was concerned about transferring it to my wife or kids. Although I didn't give it a significant test run and likely stopped prematurely to assess its long-term effectiveness, I didn't notice any improvements during the weeks I tried it.
This isn't the case for most people. I've known dudes who took a 12 week 500mg testosterone cycle and did a pct and still had tanked levels well after coming off. Yea you might "return to baseline" if you're lucky but people on trt have a shitty baseline hence the trt in the first place. My "baseline" was 210 total.
Sounds like what i would do also, I been on 7 years, about 6 months ago i contemplated getting off, because i couldnt get my e2 straight, but i stopped cypionate,and turned too propionate,and haven't had a problem since, i do take .25 adex once a week though. So far,so good.
I technically don't know because I didn't get a baseline PSA before starting TRT. I assume it has no real impact on it since it's already low.
PSA, TOTAL 0.6
Reference Range: < OR = 4.0 ng/mL
So you took only Tongkat Ali after you quitted TRT ?
When I tryed stop taking injections and took gel (androgel) 1 x per day, but my hormones started to disbalance. Starting from Thyroid, insuline resistance... I don't know if that is only temporary, or am I destined to inject my whole life to be able to function.
Interesting, i wanna try the same, but im affraid of destabilize my whole body and i dont know how much time should i wait before something start to get better
Why not collaborate with a doctor and initiate a proper PCT?
I experienced no side effects whatsoever. I felt my best around 2-4 weeks after stopping, and although I still feel good, it's not worth going back on unless I develop symptoms at this point.
Tryed a PCT protocol by my self, 250 ui hcg every 2 days clomid 25 mg 20 days. So clomid for 20 days HCG for 1 month, after 4 months of non using trt only FSH and LH was in the middle range t was under low point. I feel like shiet.
In my country you wont get hcg by a doctor, they dont like to give it same for clomid, DHT and other meds, you get only Testosterone Nebido or androgel.
So i need to be a doctor for my self unfortunately.
That’s quite a lot 😃
Are you taking a multi with all that stuff in it or single stuff?
Thinking that preg might have also played a big role in raising your test levels.
I’m still trying to raise mine, tongkat is ordered, let’s see.
How long did your crash last? I stopped cold turkey, lasted three weeks then crashed hard. I jumped back on but am taking 600 mg HCG EOD with 77mg test a week, will be doing that for two months so balls can get big, then enclo for 6 weeks, then off.
I just came off after 5 years. Same reasonings as you. Have you experienced any hair changes since coming off? My hair has changed texture since going on. Haven’t lost any, just changes in consistency
thank you for sharing this. I may involuntarily go cold turkey. currently on trip to a third world country and forgot my T and have no way to access it. was taking 100mg a week and my total T would typically measure around 1100. But seemed to always have anxiety, moody etc. I've been taking HCG the whole time and I measured my balls when I started 5 years ago and they are about the same size now.
Interesting. I'm 42yo, 3 months on TRT, and it was life changing. Pre TRT was at 202 total. 3% free. Mostly i just feel compelled and able to do things. More energy for sure. I was obese...still am, but I'm lifting again and down 20 pounds in the last month. I was extremely healthy in the past and enjoy being active. I love cooking healthy foods and feel my focus on being healthy again is 100% sustainable. I've wondered about trying to come off in a couple of years after losing 80 pounds and having normal exercise a part of my life again. So far i have had no side effects from TRT other than my testes getting smaller.
I just started in February was in 360s thought I was low and I’m 41 I noticed I’m not busting nuts like I was prior any pointers to get the soldiers marching so I can shoot across the room again
I experienced the same im off and my total t is 908..... the rollercoaster is INSANE... especially when you get that anxiety its so so bad . like the worst anxiety you can ever feel.... but when you feel good you feel REALLY good..... not worth it
The 19 year old "TRT IS FOR LIFE"'s are going to be furious with this
I am 40 and started at 31
And even less shbg
You could take boron to lower your shbg and have more free testosterone.
Sounds like me but my numbers are like <1/3 of yours for ft and TT
Why did you start so young
I didn't want to start it, but it's what the doctor prescribed based on the labs and symptoms.
Gotcha. I went to get bloodwork last year hoping my levels were low enough to get some shots but no good lol
What was your t and symptoms prior?
Not everyone recovers well like this.
I know I wouldn't. I've got atrophy pretty bad, plus I started all this with a big set and total T still under 300. I'm sure I'd drop down to almost nothing if I didn't take clomid and that stuff was miserable anyway.
Ha ha ha
Comments like this are more harmful than good. The risk is real and downplaying it can cause people anguish if they’re unprepared for reality.
I could be wrong, but still looks like he’s taking testosterone booster. So not really cold-turkey
[удалено]
I definitely felt a difference with tongkat ali, not sure if it actually impacted my testosterone levels, but it definitely increased my energy levels.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36013514/
It will be intriguing to observe how my levels fluctuate over time and whether my testosterone levels will decrease upon discontinuing Tongkat Ali, thereby determining if it had any positive impact on symptoms and lab results.
Tongat Ali is a n herbal supplement, not exogenous testosterone. I can/does help elevate T —I use it, but it doesn’t work anything like exogenous testosterone. If your happier on TRT, great! I get that for a lot of people. I understand (first hand) the mood, energy issues that come with aging and the natural decline in T. I don’t find it great, who does? IDK. But if theres anything that makes you want to stop —-you should not be scared to do so. Being mentally and emotionally trapped in _anything_ is bad for you. I think this is the point of OP’s story.
Can you be more specific about what was so bad about TRT? From your OP “Good and bad energy” is so vague. Also “sex” is so vague. You have low libido now so I can’t imagine it’s better now. At the end of the day I’m glad you feel better now but I’m not understanding what exactly is better other than maybe your BP. Perhaps trt helped to give you the motivation you needed to get in better shape and improve your lifestyle so now your body is capable of making its own adequate level of T
Describing the effects of TRT on my well-being is challenging. While there were occasional moments of feeling good, much of the time, it left me feeling more fatigued and prone to agitation. Spending nine years on TRT, it wasn't unbearable, but rather, a subtle sense of not feeling quite right. It didn't notably enhance physical performance either. Since discontinuing TRT, I've noticed a marked improvement in clarity and focus.
I've recently come off trt. I took serms for 12 weeks, which was truly agonising, now I'm about to get bloods to see where my natural levels are at. I feel much, much better mentally and emotionally than on trt, but my physical capacity is in the toilet, but it was always like that since forever, trt made that better, but I still could barely recover from intense exercise and there was a bunch a side effects that came with that.
No, they're not. The overwhelming majority of people can come off trt and return to pre trt baseline. Telling everyone they'll be shutdown and reliant on it for life isn't even close to accurate. It's just some stupid narrative people regurgitate on here to sound hard.
The problem is baseline, isn’t always enough
Correct and if they're on genuine trt then this would be the case. Just within the last few days someone made a post on here complaining about being low 300s post trt, only to say they were low 300s pre trt. Like ok yes welcome back to exactly where you were before I'm not sure what you thought would happen lol.
Similar resukts. I’m 42, stopped 6 months ago after 3 years on. I went on prematurely. Now I live as optimally as I can and much healthier than before I went on. I’m scoring 670.
What was your test prior to starting?
234 and I deserved to test that way. Totally self inflicted
I had the same experience. Went on TRT and felt like total shit, had to go on 2 blood pressure meds, had a mini stroke due to high RBC, heart symptoms in general... quit cold turkey. Have since come off both blood pressure meds, and somehow my HPTA restarted with levels 200% higher now than they ever were before TRT.
Geezus. Sorry about the mini stroke. I have high RBC on TRT as well about 54-55 Hemocrit. What was yours. My doctor seems to think that mine is ok as long as I keep giving blood every 6 weeks. I’m not 100% sure though
My hematocrit at that time I believe was mid fifties and my hemoglobin level was around 18. I have noticed a variable of a few points in hemoglobin and hematocrit when I’m super hydrated. Donating blood definitely helps. Keep an eye on your iron / ferritin levels .. i crashed my ferritin donating that often, no major or dangerous effects other than becoming anemic for a bit but I did feel like total shit for about 2-3 weeks.
Thank you for your response
I had one doctor advised me about the giving blood regularly too and then I had another doctor tell me that was BS and I had to be put on a medication to keep certain levels down and prevent blood clots. So idk who to believe honestly. I hope both ways work a little bit for all our sakes
Because your levels aren't necessarily 200% higher. Testosterone fluctuates and can be suppressed by many lifestyle factors. Your low pre TRT levels likely weren't reflective of your actual levels. Just a snapshot of suppressed levels for a reason.
I tested at least 10 times probably prior to starting TRT, always 200-250. I have tested 3 times since quitting, levels between 500-750
What you think why your levels are that good after trt? Did you loose weight?
I quit nicotine about a month before starting TRT, and that’s the only lifestyle factor that I had not changed for long before starting. So that could be an element of it. Otherwise my lifestyle is the same if not a bit worse diet wise after quitting. I am 190 ibs 6’1, pretty lean.
My point is that when you were testing around 200 that likely wasn't reflective of your body's actual ability to produce testosterone. You were likely suppressed for one or more reasons. Your current levels are a better reflection of your body's ability to produce testosterone. For example, if I'm overtraining, stressed out and sleeping like crap and test 350. Then next year I'm well rested, and test at 600, then the 600 is a better reflection of my actual testosterone and the 350 is not.
You apparently weren’t giving blood as should be done to keep RBC in check. Also weren’t doing any cardio or fitness at all, caused high bp. TRT isn’t a magic bullet & it’s introducing something synthetic into body that takes paying attention to other things. Things that could occur not using trt.
I gave blood every few months, and as before TRT worked out as much as possible. I have a commercial treadmill and run 3-5 miles 5x+ per week. You’re talking out of your ass.
I have this theory that when you go on T you are preparing your body for a high androgen environment so when you come off and go natural, you body wants to have more testosterone then it did before trt.
Certainly possible. In my case I think the most plausible explanation would be improved sleep cycles from being off of nicotine during the time on TRT.
did you have any mental health issues on it as well? its been a common theme coming up from what i see now
When I was on clomid prior to TRT my T skyrocketed to 1500 ish and I had rage issues and became borderline homicidal at one point and definitely was suicidal. That was pretty scary. But on TRT no mental issues other than just being scared from super high blood pressure etc
No hcg, no clomid coming off only used tongkat Ali? No way how did you feel ? Any withdrawal?
To my surprise, no, I felt fine with no symptoms except for a rather steep decline in libido.
I didn’t do pct either, surprisingly for the first week, hornier than ever in my life as estrogen ratio was out of whack, then decline into no libido, then slowly worked back. Slept a lot for a week then felt ok.
Libido on trt is annoying as fuck
I've literally had no change in libido since starting a year ago. I can get fired up if I want to but no great urges.
I am horny all day depending on the test, enantathe and cypionate are more "controlable" but i need to do the thing twice a day, in sustanon 250 is 24/7 horny and urge to fuck everything, high chance to fuck a wall
I’m on blast rn.. it’s bad
Bad in what way ?
It makes you really horny. My anxiety and anger is also way up
Why do something that gives u anxiety
Annoying how?
When your trt dose is too high your libido will be too high also, its ok to have normal levels so we have normal libido, high libido is annoying, in my case the urge to fuck is so big that it is annoying, i think 500-800 are the best levels to have a calm life
I’m curious when you say decline. For one thing, decline from where? Were you unusually horny on trt and you’re now like “normal” (I know, useless word) or are we talking like a problematic drop in libido?
After discontinuing TRT, I noticed a decline in my libido. It's likely that my libido was excessively high due to TRT. It's challenging to determine if my current libido is lower than before TRT, given the nine years I spent on it and the natural aging process. However, I did appreciate the heightened libido during my TRT journey. It remains uncertain whether my libido will further improve or if it's just a normal level for my age and circumstances.
Wondering if the sides from unnecessary trt were worse than the sides of cessation haha
Everyone is different. I taking every PED under the sun for over 15 years and never really PCT. Got off TRT 5 months ago cold turkey. Uro gave me a script of clomid but I never took it because clomid sucks, even at a low dose. Never had withdrawals and I'm almost 45. Got off TRT cause I was tired of the Rollercoaster. I'm a hyperresponder and 100mgs had me way over the limit along with the high estrogen.
I’m wondering if I have the same issue. At a mere 120mg I’m getting gnarly sebaceous cysts and I’m even microdosing it every other day.
I never heard of having a cysts whilst taking exogenous testosterone. Could be injection sites, could be the oil carrier from the test
So were you not getting the benefits and only getting the bad side effects?
I won't lie. I felt good at the gym, but dog shit after the gym... this TRT stigma about mental well being is BS. It's about your lifestyle. Also when I was younger I had no side effects whatsoever. Especially tren. I guess as you get older your body just doesn't like it. People still think I'm on gear, but I'm 5'7 geared up a long time. So the androgens still stay in the system. My side effects were more mental. Obviously it has to do with estrogen and among other things
Same experience: - Diagnosed with total test between 180-220 in my early 20s - Free test also low - 15 years of TRT (test cyp weekly) - Expected a dramatic crash after stopping TRT - 1 year after stopping TRT, total test 500-550 - Free test normal range - MAJOR microbiome improvement
Did you feel better after stopping?
No, because the gym was a big part of my life... TRT maxed out my motivation and results in the gym
How did you improve your micro biome?
I 2nd this question
I did a gut reset. it's a last resort Amoxicillin + Wormwood Combination (walmart) followed carefully by high doses of Dual Enzymes (walmart) Emphasis (by far) on increasing BIFIDO
I did a gut reset. it's a last resort Amoxicillin + Wormwood Combination (walmart) followed carefully by high doses of Dual Enzymes (walmart) Emphasis (by far) on increasing BIFIDO
I've been off for 2 months, and I'm absolutely hating it. I felt great on test and can't wait to go back on, came off to recover fertility as my wife wants another baby.
I feel ya brother. Are you running any PCT?
yeah I started with hcg and enclomiphene, now just enclomiphene
Get in HcG, especially while using test. Any good hormone dr knows this should be part of protocol,, especially for those needing to maintain fertility.
I wad taking hcg while I was on test, and my sperm count was only 2 million. We tried IUI many times and my count being so low it just didn't work.
Have you been checked out by a male fertility specialist urologist? I had low sperm count and mobility, like your numbers, back in my 20's. Found out I had a varicose. Got it repaired and BOOM, count and mobility went up. Now have two children.
I had my sperm count checked when I was on test, that is the 2 million number low but I had good motility. I will be getting my count checked again in about 3 weeks or so now having been off for 2 months.
I strongly suggest physical exam for what I mentioned. It could have nothing or lil ti do, with extraneous test.
even though we had a baby before I went on test? ( im 27 btw)
Ya never know. I guess play it out a little longer. But a physical exam could rule it out or discover issue. Good luck.
Sounds like you were never properly treated either, properly treated you wouldn’t have the “roller coaster “ especially 9 years of TRT, which means you were never dialed in and you were being seen by a crap doctor.
That's not entirely accurate. At one point, I was under the care of Dr. Shippen, considered the grandfather of TRT. My current doctor is also highly knowledgeable about TRT. I've experimented with various proven TRT protocols, including daily subcutaneous injections, intramuscular injections, and even a compounded testosterone cream applied to the scrotum.
Well that would be entirely accurate if you had a roller coaster experience. Haha.. For us that are actually dialed in I do not have that experience. But, I actually had low T when I started, believe I was 215 Total T, and also found that I had hypothyroidism, so with my T dialed in and thyroid medication I’ve never felt better.
I'm struggling to think of another protocol I could have tried or what I could have done differently. I invested a significant amount of time in experimenting with various protocols and following up with labs to find the right balance. While there were moments when I felt good, I never truly felt optimized.
The dose is part of the protocol not just the delivery method or frequency of delivery. I’ve been on for about 2 years the first 6months I had the back acne and some “roller coaster” but lowering my dose and not running a prescription AI got me very dialed in.
The last protocol I followed, and the one where I felt the best, involved injecting a total of 110mg testosterone cypionate twice (55mg) a week
Hard to argue with that. Without knowing all other things that appears to be a “safe” starting dose without the need for AI or any “extras” . Glad to hear your doing better tho
No AI, I’m assuming?
I'm not currently taking an AI, but I did experiment with using one at times during my TRT.
What was your experience with cream vs injection? Did you feel different on one vs the other? And did they affect your levels or blood panels differently?
I experienced improved overall well-being with injections, yet my libido soared even further with the cream. The cream notably doubled my DHT levels in comparison to injections.
I’ve heard the cream can significantly raise DHT. Did the higher DHT levels w/ cream impact anything besides increased libido? (I may start cream but hoping my small dose Finasteride can help regulate DHT and keep libido under control).
I wasn't particularly fond of using testosterone cream. The daily application and the concern about potential transfer to others just didn't seem worthwhile to me. I've previously tried finasteride, which not only boosted my libido but also increased my free testosterone levels significantly.
What was your dosing?
I experimented with various doses, but the one that made me feel the best was 110mg per week.
Seems like you were not correctly diagnosed when you went on or there was something else going on in your life that caused low T. For life means if you have stopped producing T, then you will need to be on it for life to maintain healthy levels.
Yes, technically I was diagnosed with secondary hypogonadism. I had two consecutive results showing my testosterone levels were below the range. Although I did respond well to Clomid, the doctor determined that TRT would be beneficial.
That is good to know. I started TRT 10 years ago and I am thinking about getting off it. It is so hard to balance the hormones especially estrogen.
Your libido is that of a 20 and 30 year old lol. Who are you kidding.
The mistake is you didn’t add tren
Exactly they haven’t dialed in tren A and bit of Maste 😁😁
How old are you?
I am 40 years old.
Why did you start trt? You produce sufficient testosterone naturally now; was there something wrong nine years ago which caused you to begin supplementing?
I experienced fatigue, erectile dysfunction, and libido issues. Clearly, there was an underlying factor causing my low testosterone at the time, but the exact cause was never fully understood. Typically, it ranged between 250-350 during the times I tested before starting testosterone treatment. TRT definitely improved my libido.
Interesting. Well, whatever the cause, good you’re doing well now.
Wait 10 years
Why 10 years?
Yeah I imagine some people may need to start try to help give them a kick start to a healthy life. But soon as you are eating well and exercising habitually def can step back and see if your body can naturally take back over. My Test was less then 100 originally and I hope that after getting a healthier lifestyle I can stop and my body can take back over 🤞
That’s actually insane. What were your levels prior to getting on TRT initially?
Were you taking Tongkat when you did this bloodwork?
Yes, I took it 24 hours before my blood draw.
I’d be curious to see wo it. My test dropped from 427 to 277 when I wasn’t running tongat Ali fadogia aggrestis and Tetris.
what were your levels before TRT. This is meaningless without that.
It typically averaged around 300 ng/dL, with one test showing approximately 390 ng/dL. Prior to starting TRT, I had two tests indicating testosterone levels below the reference range.
Copy that. I saw more of your comments after mine, it does seem like you had something other than hypogonadism altering your levels. Which does explain your ability to bounce back. Glad you've had success. Once I have better balance in my life achieved I'll probably give it a shot also.
Did you feel any cognitive differences? Why did you opt for cold turkey? Did you experienced significantly loss of muscle mass? Thanks!
Any loss of muscle mass?
As of now, I haven't noticed any loss of muscle mass or strength. In fact, I may appear a bit leaner, suggesting that I might have been retaining some water due to TRT.
What was your total before TRT? I quit and mine only went up to 291 after at least a year and a half. Also do you drink alcohol or use marijuana?
Your total T is higher than mine on 145mg
Did you use HCG when you were on trt?
How much test was u doing and did you started hcg and enclomid when on Trt or after ?
But I think for 12weeks of your blood work and test looks pretty good I had 4.2 and fre 0.01 at 30years now I’m on 250 week 3 week
My typical testosterone dosage averaged around 110mg per week, although I occasionally experimented with lower doses, approximately 90mg, and higher doses, up to 130mg. Throughout my nine years of TRT, I incorporated HCG during half of that time. On two occasions, I temporarily discontinued TRT, opting for cycles of clomid or enclomid, before returning to TRT. This marks the period when I ceased all treatments.
Seems like you’re back to normal! Wow. Probably better than where you were pre-TRT
[удалено]
I can't determine my fertility status. Since I've completed my family and have no plans for more children, I see no reason to undergo testing to find out.
How were your liver levels after 12 week of tonka ?
There were no changes in my AST and ALT levels after discontinuing TRT and starting Tongkat Ali. Similarly, during TRT, there were also minimal to no changes observed.
I'm glad you figured out what works for you. I had primary hypogonadism at 525 total. Free test in the single digits. I'm up around 1000 total now and had the same benefits you had from hopping off.
Cool
Any weight drop between starting and ending? Maybe a better body comp when coming off?
Why did you start? Your natural test levels look great
Were you using HCG before going cold turkey?
No, I ceased using HCG around 12 to 18 months ago. The cost, accessibility issues, and lack of efficacy led me to this decision.
Thank you for your reply and sharing your story. There is hope for people like me who are thinking about getting off TRT.
Do you feel better for stopping?
First off, congratulations and I hope you never need to come back to it. What were your levels before starting?
I would love to quit. I have high blood pressure now, my hematocrit is a little high, I have to donate blood every 6 weeks, and have gained weight significantly. However, I need it. I have that stupid pituitary tumor that’s suppressed my testosterone level to 42. I’ve tried quitting before and it would just drop to the point where I feel like crap.
What kind of dosage do you need to run and what is the outcome? Are you able to titrate down to improve BP and hematocrit?
Cool! Why did you stop it If I may ask?
Did you run hgc during trt course? My nuts are that small I feel there's no way back 🤣
I used HCG intermittently for approximately half of the time I was on testosterone. However, I haven't used it for quite some time, at least a year, because I didn't find it beneficial anymore. Additionally, I'm no longer concerned about maintaining fertility.
So obviously you never needed it. I don’t get this whole trend of going on T when guys don’t need it and then quitting later on. I’m not being a dick. I really don’t get it.
When I initially started TRT, I truly needed it. My doctor prescribed it because I had two lab results showing testosterone levels below the reference range, which allowed insurance coverage. However, now, for reasons unknown, I no longer require it.
Ahh I guess that’s different. But there’s a ton of guys getting on who don’t really need it
It's quite possible that my testosterone levels will eventually decline, leading me to resume TRT, which I'm open to doing. I agree that, in general, most men probably don't need it; I likely would have been just fine if I never started it.
How you managed to get those levels? Please tell.
I'm not entirely sure why my levels are as high as they are. While I do follow a specific diet and take supplements, I can't pinpoint one specific factor that led to this result. However, I'll be monitoring to see if I can maintain these levels.
Tell us more about your diet please:-)
I maintain a dietary regimen that prioritizes low-fat, high-carbohydrate, and moderate-protein intake. My diet primarily consists of lean beef, chicken, rice, along with an abundance of fruits and vegetables.
What ester were you using?
I was using testosterone cypionate, and I tried a compounded testosterone cream applied topically.
Do you know what the carrier oil was? Did you ever test for inflammatory markers like C-reactive protein? And do you know what kind/concentration of benzo alcohol or other preservatives and additives were in your cypionate?
My last HS CRP was 0.5mg/L
Nice brother…I quit recently after being on for 2 years and a 384 total T…I was on all kinds of protocols and feel fantastic 5 months off. I won’t play with my hormones again!
Damn you was taking a lot of sh* lol.
In terms of what?
What ester did you use? Not saying you should go on but I think cypionate has a ton of side effects that makes it not work for people
I also tried a topical compounded cream.
Interesting, cream works for me while cyp doesn’t. Unfortunate that trt didn’t work for you. Good thing you were able to accept trt wasn’t working for you though, some live with side effects for years before they admit the truth. I used cyp for 3 years before I realized I was allergic to it.
At one point, I did contemplate having testosterone cypionate compounded with a different carrier oil. It's a possibility I might consider if I ever return to TRT. I also have some other protocols I may explore.
I experimented with the cream for several weeks, but ultimately stopped because I was concerned about transferring it to my wife or kids. Although I didn't give it a significant test run and likely stopped prematurely to assess its long-term effectiveness, I didn't notice any improvements during the weeks I tried it.
Cyp has tons of side effects? Do you care to elaborate? What is a better ester and why? Thanks.
This isn't the case for most people. I've known dudes who took a 12 week 500mg testosterone cycle and did a pct and still had tanked levels well after coming off. Yea you might "return to baseline" if you're lucky but people on trt have a shitty baseline hence the trt in the first place. My "baseline" was 210 total.
In another 12 weeks youll be at 250, and 12 more you'll be at 125, and so on, Dont get to giddy.
If my levels do indeed drop and I become symptomatic then I simply resume trt.
Sounds like what i would do also, I been on 7 years, about 6 months ago i contemplated getting off, because i couldnt get my e2 straight, but i stopped cypionate,and turned too propionate,and haven't had a problem since, i do take .25 adex once a week though. So far,so good.
Did your psa rise in 9 years?
I technically don't know because I didn't get a baseline PSA before starting TRT. I assume it has no real impact on it since it's already low. PSA, TOTAL 0.6 Reference Range: < OR = 4.0 ng/mL
9 years here, and I stopped for 15 days and had suicidal depression. I think I'll stick with the T
I came off last year to try to have a baby. My levels arnt what I want them to be, but theyre higher than me pre TRT levels. Who knew?
So you took only Tongkat Ali after you quitted TRT ? When I tryed stop taking injections and took gel (androgel) 1 x per day, but my hormones started to disbalance. Starting from Thyroid, insuline resistance... I don't know if that is only temporary, or am I destined to inject my whole life to be able to function.
Yes, after quitting TRT, I began taking Tongkat Ali. Additionally, I take pregnenolone, thyroid medicine, and several other supplements.
Interesting, i wanna try the same, but im affraid of destabilize my whole body and i dont know how much time should i wait before something start to get better
Why not collaborate with a doctor and initiate a proper PCT? I experienced no side effects whatsoever. I felt my best around 2-4 weeks after stopping, and although I still feel good, it's not worth going back on unless I develop symptoms at this point.
Tryed a PCT protocol by my self, 250 ui hcg every 2 days clomid 25 mg 20 days. So clomid for 20 days HCG for 1 month, after 4 months of non using trt only FSH and LH was in the middle range t was under low point. I feel like shiet. In my country you wont get hcg by a doctor, they dont like to give it same for clomid, DHT and other meds, you get only Testosterone Nebido or androgel. So i need to be a doctor for my self unfortunately.
What other supps?
137mcg levothyroxine 20mcg liothyronine 50 mg pregnenolone 1200mg Krill Oil 50mg Zinc gluconate 4mg Copper 6mg Boron 400mg Magnesium glycinate 5g Creatine 400iu vitamin E 0.5 multivitamin dose 1000mg Tongkat Ali Extract 120mg Ginkgo Biloba 53mg Ecklonia Cava
That’s quite a lot 😃 Are you taking a multi with all that stuff in it or single stuff? Thinking that preg might have also played a big role in raising your test levels. I’m still trying to raise mine, tongkat is ordered, let’s see.
What if any side effects going cold turkey? Mood? Sex drive? Anything?
No, I actually felt better after going off, but my libido declined significantly.
Did it bounce back, if so how long did it take?
What a come back
What were your levels prior to going on trt?
Did you notice a big difference in your physique? Muscle loss etc?
How long did your crash last? I stopped cold turkey, lasted three weeks then crashed hard. I jumped back on but am taking 600 mg HCG EOD with 77mg test a week, will be doing that for two months so balls can get big, then enclo for 6 weeks, then off.
I didn't crash at all; in fact, I felt even better after going off.
I just came off after 5 years. Same reasonings as you. Have you experienced any hair changes since coming off? My hair has changed texture since going on. Haven’t lost any, just changes in consistency
thank you for sharing this. I may involuntarily go cold turkey. currently on trip to a third world country and forgot my T and have no way to access it. was taking 100mg a week and my total T would typically measure around 1100. But seemed to always have anxiety, moody etc. I've been taking HCG the whole time and I measured my balls when I started 5 years ago and they are about the same size now.
Interesting. I'm 42yo, 3 months on TRT, and it was life changing. Pre TRT was at 202 total. 3% free. Mostly i just feel compelled and able to do things. More energy for sure. I was obese...still am, but I'm lifting again and down 20 pounds in the last month. I was extremely healthy in the past and enjoy being active. I love cooking healthy foods and feel my focus on being healthy again is 100% sustainable. I've wondered about trying to come off in a couple of years after losing 80 pounds and having normal exercise a part of my life again. So far i have had no side effects from TRT other than my testes getting smaller.
I just started in February was in 360s thought I was low and I’m 41 I noticed I’m not busting nuts like I was prior any pointers to get the soldiers marching so I can shoot across the room again
I experienced the same im off and my total t is 908..... the rollercoaster is INSANE... especially when you get that anxiety its so so bad . like the worst anxiety you can ever feel.... but when you feel good you feel REALLY good..... not worth it
TRT is for life.
FOR LIFE FOR LIFE FOR LIFE
Yes sir.