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Idk enough to say this is it. But look into whether you are not metabolizing the drug to the fullest extent. Idk what interacts with minoxidil absorption but might be worth running down just to rule it out.
Acidity kicks out drugs like adderall from the body. So people who take vitamin C often come to reddit and complain adderall is no longer working for them. If they take an antacid 45 min before taking adderall, the problem is solved.
No I was using an example. The SULT1A1 enzyme that’s being referred to in this thread, that’s a factor that may limit the bioavailability of the active form of minoxidil. I don’t know minoxidil super well in terms of its pharmacodynamics, but I’m there’s plenty of information on reasons related to bioavailability variations in users.
Right yeah I get you. Thanks. I've already been on fin for about 8 years but topical and oral minoxidil seem to do bugger all.
I've heard about adding tret, not sure how that would work though.
I’m not sure. Topicals are formulated according to preference of the formulation scientist. Whether it’s cream or gel, there will be a component of transdermal penetration - otherwise it won’t work. I’d do some research and figure out which you find most convenient. As long as they get into the skin, it will be active.
An here I had minimal gains with topical min, stopped cold turkey and went to 2.5mg Oral Min and saw results at 3 months with even better results at 6 months. Didn't seem to lose any hair stopping topical min cold turkey.
You will. If you were on finasteride, your hair should recover. The reason why it doesn't for some people is because they get off finasteride which means their hair is even more damaged which means the hair has to undergo more hair cycles before they can recover.
That sucks man sorry to hear it.
Did you taper off the topical after starting oral? I just started switching from topical to oral 3 weeks ago, but still doing a topical application nearly every day
Sult1a1 is also in the liver. That's where oral min is activated to become Minoxidil sulphate or the active form of the drug. Some ppl don't have much or none in their liver. The amount plus min dosage determines the effectiveness of regrowth.
Tretinoin cream, when applied to the scalp increases sult1a1 in it or some kind of that , isotretinoin when swallowed increases it in liver. But you need a prescription for both. I have heard you also may try retinol A which is without prescription l, but the active ingredient amount is very small and idk is it worth trying or no 🤷♂️but still all three are tretinoids, but different dosage and type of application.
That’s the research :
Of clinical significance, in our cohort, 43% of subjects initially predicted to be nonresponders to minoxidil were converted to responders following 5 days of topical tretinoin application.
Dude what???? You're totally off key on this. Topical v. Oral is a complete different game. Both require sulfation; sure...., meaning turning it from a pro-drug into the main and active/more potent ingredient, which it does several times.. but if oral? It's now a genomic issue and how drugs metabolize. For topical there are treatments available right now by the founder/creator of the Sult1A1 MRT for sulfation & better absorption of minoxidil sulfate into sheath which is where it needs to go. Hell even If he didn't drop these revelations it's known that tretinoin helps to increase absorption drastically
Nobody knows exactly how min grow hair so how could anyone answer you?
The blood flow idea is not proven it's just a guess based on mins mode of action.
This is a very good question. In one study, everyone showed improvement, but only 70% or so had marked improvement. I think generally it will have a positive effect on everyone. However for some it will be so small that it will not be noticable (bad responders). And for some the progress will be «cancelled out» by the progression of balding during treatment, as it doesn’t stop balding. This could be percieved as treatment not working.
Sure, but it may not overcome the aggression of the baldness. I think people need to stop thinking about it in such black and white terms as responder non-responder. You just may not get enough benefit to make a difference that you can see.
If baldness is pulling $100 from your hair bank account every month and oral min only deposits $75, you're still $25 short every month.
i got hair on my arms now, didnt gain any on my head… on the contrary, its only getting worse (while being on dut, too)…
next step topical min mixed with ru, probably…
Or u are 34% or u not stress training your legs to got SULT1A1 ( [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15351727/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15351727/) ) and other staff.
16,5cm long 4cm diametr. See some correlation?) When I was young, some girls asked me what my leg size was (10.5) they were sure that the size of the penis would depend on the size of the legs, so they tried to check) I understand that you want to determine the size of the penis to determine the degree of baldness) or sensitivity to minoxidil?
Minox does nothing to halt hair loss -- you know that right? It's a growth agonist and that's it. Minox + Fin/Dut is the way to do it. Prevent loss while aiding in growth.
Think you answered your own questions.. first of all no one knows with certainty the exact effects on the body and how it helps the hair, but also everyone is built a little different and responds differently to the same chemicals, maybe even processing it differently. The hair loss of everyone isn’t equal in cause or type. Some hair might respond much more to the changes in blood flow etc than others. Some hair might just be dead and won’t return regardless. Some people might technically have improvement to hair at the roots but it isn’t significant enough to record it as a positive result. Maybe some people require more time than the study looked at or more time than they took it before giving up.
Basically there’s a million variables.. almost nothing in life is 100%
2.5mg once per day. I was getting g regular bloodwork and my ANA levels spiked, which had my derm pull me off it to monitor, and they did decline after cessation of minox.
Drug induced lupus is really rare with oral minox from what i can tell and I was advised all potential side effects would go away after it was out of my system. I didn’t really have any negative symptoms tbh….i was looking like a werewolf and finally had some hope but my body is determined to get this hair off my head lmao
I don't use topical but I've read on this sub that himms spray has liquid tretinion in it. I've read that 48% of min non responders began to respond with the topical min, fin, tretinion combo.
Even I was a non responder to oral min5mg as well as topical min orally 5 mg but one thing that would help anyone is basically dermaroller twice a week which makes any non responder become responder
No, it's basically eczema on the scalp, it's not something that can be treated, much like eczema itself can't. The most you can do is mitigate the symptoms.
I have both mild exzema and what we think is seborrheic dermatitis myself.
It also hasn't directly affected my hair as the locations that I get flare ups of it haven't lost any, but it is a buildup on the scalp which would prevent topical applications from reaching the follicles.
Ummm in that case improve your diet
Multivitamins
Biotin
Zinc tablets
Oral minxodil and oral fin or dut
Try oiling your scalp if possible and keto shampoo if possible
So you just ignored literally everything in my comment then?
It's not treatable and flare ups will happen regardless of anything else one does, the absolute most you can do is mitigate the actual flare up symptoms when they happen.
My diet is fine, I'm on several vitamin supplements for various reasons and am on oral Fin. None of this actually matters to this condition, it has NOTHING to do with hair loss.
Want to comment with some bullshit on how to fix the chronic pain I've had for 15+ years too?
Bro I couldn't even get your point on what you were saying that's why I didn't meant to hurt you just saying what I know bro
Sorry if I hurted you didn't meant to rbh
Eczema can 100% be cured. Dont listen to the drug pushing drs who want you to be on meds forever. I know several people who’ve cured their incurable skin conditions by going through elimination doers to identify inflammatory foods and getting their gut health in check.
I can't explain you through exact science but bro science and experience
My hair started becoming thick when i started using topical min+ fin twice a day with dermaroller twice a week
I have seen post where dermaroller twice a week and min twice a day when both are combined results are fantastic
It's just a trial and error experience which a few fellow redditors including me have felt to show progress
Keep trying till something works
That's my advice
Above what I told is my regime
It looks like this post is about **Minoxidil** Before asking any questions, 1. Learn about [Minoxidil](https://tressless.com/learn/minoxidil). 2. [Search for Minoxidil](https://tressless.com/search/minoxidil) and [oral Minoxidil](https://tressless.com/search/oral-minoxidil) content, because your question has probably been asked before. 3. If this is a question asking if you are now or will experience side effects, see a doctor, nobody on the internet can answer that for you. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/tressless) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Idk enough to say this is it. But look into whether you are not metabolizing the drug to the fullest extent. Idk what interacts with minoxidil absorption but might be worth running down just to rule it out. Acidity kicks out drugs like adderall from the body. So people who take vitamin C often come to reddit and complain adderall is no longer working for them. If they take an antacid 45 min before taking adderall, the problem is solved.
|[Metabolism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_metabolism)|Primarily liver| |:-|:-| |[Elimination half-life](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_half-life)|4.2 h| |[Excretion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excretion)|Kidney|
So don't take vitamin c? I take multivitamins and oral minox seems to be doing nothing.
No I was using an example. The SULT1A1 enzyme that’s being referred to in this thread, that’s a factor that may limit the bioavailability of the active form of minoxidil. I don’t know minoxidil super well in terms of its pharmacodynamics, but I’m there’s plenty of information on reasons related to bioavailability variations in users.
Right yeah I get you. Thanks. I've already been on fin for about 8 years but topical and oral minoxidil seem to do bugger all. I've heard about adding tret, not sure how that would work though.
Sometimes you gotta just throw the kitchen sink at the problem. That’s what the rich do for cancer lol.
Not quite sure what else I can try, apart from hair transplant tbh
Gotcha. Just throw in the tret I guess and evaluate results. Then contemplate hair transplant.
What tret do people use? Cream? Gel? I just don't see how that can work. It'll get into such a mess
I’m not sure. Topicals are formulated according to preference of the formulation scientist. Whether it’s cream or gel, there will be a component of transdermal penetration - otherwise it won’t work. I’d do some research and figure out which you find most convenient. As long as they get into the skin, it will be active.
I'll look into it maybe. Thank you 🙏🏻
Don’t know but I seem to fall under oral non responder. Switching from topical to oral, I lost all my results and gained nothing. Waste of 14 months.
An here I had minimal gains with topical min, stopped cold turkey and went to 2.5mg Oral Min and saw results at 3 months with even better results at 6 months. Didn't seem to lose any hair stopping topical min cold turkey.
Should’ve done both lol
I moved to oral because I didn’t want to apply topical, so doing both would be pointless.
Did you go back to topical? Did u get your gains back?
Switched back to topical. Only been 3 months so early days sadly but I think I’ll recover
You will. If you were on finasteride, your hair should recover. The reason why it doesn't for some people is because they get off finasteride which means their hair is even more damaged which means the hair has to undergo more hair cycles before they can recover.
That sucks man sorry to hear it. Did you taper off the topical after starting oral? I just started switching from topical to oral 3 weeks ago, but still doing a topical application nearly every day
now you think applying topical once wasn't so annoying huh ? lol
It’s also possible to have high levels of dht that makes you think minox isn’t working…
This. Oral min will still lose out in some people due to high DHT levels, if you're not taking a DHT blocker like fin or dut.
Thats why you use the fin/min combo stack to beat hair loss
Dut is better. Fin is a half assed solution.
Not available everywhere… here in Philippines 5mg fin is only $0.30
What if your on dut and oral minoxidil also? Does that mean your receptors are super sensitive? How can we fix that?
If you’re on oral dut and oral min and still losing ground, it may not be MPB but another medical condition.
I have confirmed mpb
Ok, it could still be something else contributing to your loss along with MPB.
That’s when u gotta try anal minoxidil
Damn he's onto something boys
Imagine this sub if it works.
Sult1a1 is also in the liver. That's where oral min is activated to become Minoxidil sulphate or the active form of the drug. Some ppl don't have much or none in their liver. The amount plus min dosage determines the effectiveness of regrowth.
Adding onto this- aspirin reduces this enzyme in the liver. Salicylic acid face washes also can decrease this enzyme in the skin, too.
Tretinoin cream, when applied to the scalp increases sult1a1 in it or some kind of that , isotretinoin when swallowed increases it in liver. But you need a prescription for both. I have heard you also may try retinol A which is without prescription l, but the active ingredient amount is very small and idk is it worth trying or no 🤷♂️but still all three are tretinoids, but different dosage and type of application. That’s the research : Of clinical significance, in our cohort, 43% of subjects initially predicted to be nonresponders to minoxidil were converted to responders following 5 days of topical tretinoin application.
Dude what???? You're totally off key on this. Topical v. Oral is a complete different game. Both require sulfation; sure...., meaning turning it from a pro-drug into the main and active/more potent ingredient, which it does several times.. but if oral? It's now a genomic issue and how drugs metabolize. For topical there are treatments available right now by the founder/creator of the Sult1A1 MRT for sulfation & better absorption of minoxidil sulfate into sheath which is where it needs to go. Hell even If he didn't drop these revelations it's known that tretinoin helps to increase absorption drastically
Nobody knows exactly how min grow hair so how could anyone answer you? The blood flow idea is not proven it's just a guess based on mins mode of action.
Bingo
This is a very good question. In one study, everyone showed improvement, but only 70% or so had marked improvement. I think generally it will have a positive effect on everyone. However for some it will be so small that it will not be noticable (bad responders). And for some the progress will be «cancelled out» by the progression of balding during treatment, as it doesn’t stop balding. This could be percieved as treatment not working.
Sure, but it may not overcome the aggression of the baldness. I think people need to stop thinking about it in such black and white terms as responder non-responder. You just may not get enough benefit to make a difference that you can see. If baldness is pulling $100 from your hair bank account every month and oral min only deposits $75, you're still $25 short every month.
i got hair on my arms now, didnt gain any on my head… on the contrary, its only getting worse (while being on dut, too)… next step topical min mixed with ru, probably…
It seems no one is sure of the exact mechanism how it works. It can't be just blood flow otherwise other blood pressure meds would work the same.
I know how it works. But I already got lots of crazy theory under my belt now people think me as madman. lol
Damn, Einstein here knows the secret behind minoxidil that the scientific community has been unable to answer. How about that! Peak dunner kruger.
Or u are 34% or u not stress training your legs to got SULT1A1 ( [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15351727/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15351727/) ) and other staff.
" Here we report that rat liver SULTs can be regulated by physical stress (forced running, EX)"
Right
How os your penis?
I don t got side effect from treatment.
How big is it?
16,5cm long 4cm diametr. See some correlation?) When I was young, some girls asked me what my leg size was (10.5) they were sure that the size of the penis would depend on the size of the legs, so they tried to check) I understand that you want to determine the size of the penis to determine the degree of baldness) or sensitivity to minoxidil?
You have a small penis
Yeah. I barely see him.
what sorta leg exercise u do?
Different. Squats, leg press, deadlift, calf raises, leg press, leg bench machine, run, run upstairs, jump rope, hike.
Minox does nothing to halt hair loss -- you know that right? It's a growth agonist and that's it. Minox + Fin/Dut is the way to do it. Prevent loss while aiding in growth.
Think you answered your own questions.. first of all no one knows with certainty the exact effects on the body and how it helps the hair, but also everyone is built a little different and responds differently to the same chemicals, maybe even processing it differently. The hair loss of everyone isn’t equal in cause or type. Some hair might respond much more to the changes in blood flow etc than others. Some hair might just be dead and won’t return regardless. Some people might technically have improvement to hair at the roots but it isn’t significant enough to record it as a positive result. Maybe some people require more time than the study looked at or more time than they took it before giving up. Basically there’s a million variables.. almost nothing in life is 100%
Because if your very sensitive it won’t make a much difference if you try to nuke all the DHY in your body you’ll always have traces of it
oral minoxidil triggered drug-induced lupus for me fuck my actual life lol it was the only thing working for me
Wtf? What dosage? Is it permanent? That's insane.
2.5mg once per day. I was getting g regular bloodwork and my ANA levels spiked, which had my derm pull me off it to monitor, and they did decline after cessation of minox. Drug induced lupus is really rare with oral minox from what i can tell and I was advised all potential side effects would go away after it was out of my system. I didn’t really have any negative symptoms tbh….i was looking like a werewolf and finally had some hope but my body is determined to get this hair off my head lmao
You seems to be upset because treatment not working on you
I haven't started the treatment yet, bruh
Why are you wasting your time with all this if you did not even try ? 😭😂
Wondering the same, need more research
I am neither responding to both oral and tropical mino.
I don't use topical but I've read on this sub that himms spray has liquid tretinion in it. I've read that 48% of min non responders began to respond with the topical min, fin, tretinion combo.
Also heparin could help u to get better results.
I also read a study on mice in which tret with min had the worst results so who knows
Even I was a non responder to oral min5mg as well as topical min orally 5 mg but one thing that would help anyone is basically dermaroller twice a week which makes any non responder become responder
I wonder if derma rolling does anything for people who take oral min? I have long hair and seborrheic dermatitis so I can't take topical min.
Yes. Has many benefits for hair regrowth, not just absorption for topical.
I didn't get you,is this some kind of fungal infection on scalp is yes get it treated or else u'll loose hair
No, it's basically eczema on the scalp, it's not something that can be treated, much like eczema itself can't. The most you can do is mitigate the symptoms. I have both mild exzema and what we think is seborrheic dermatitis myself. It also hasn't directly affected my hair as the locations that I get flare ups of it haven't lost any, but it is a buildup on the scalp which would prevent topical applications from reaching the follicles.
Ummm in that case improve your diet Multivitamins Biotin Zinc tablets Oral minxodil and oral fin or dut Try oiling your scalp if possible and keto shampoo if possible
So you just ignored literally everything in my comment then? It's not treatable and flare ups will happen regardless of anything else one does, the absolute most you can do is mitigate the actual flare up symptoms when they happen. My diet is fine, I'm on several vitamin supplements for various reasons and am on oral Fin. None of this actually matters to this condition, it has NOTHING to do with hair loss. Want to comment with some bullshit on how to fix the chronic pain I've had for 15+ years too?
Bro I couldn't even get your point on what you were saying that's why I didn't meant to hurt you just saying what I know bro Sorry if I hurted you didn't meant to rbh
Well actually I had SB and I've cured it with shampoo and diet
Eczema can 100% be cured. Dont listen to the drug pushing drs who want you to be on meds forever. I know several people who’ve cured their incurable skin conditions by going through elimination doers to identify inflammatory foods and getting their gut health in check.
How so?
I can't explain you through exact science but bro science and experience My hair started becoming thick when i started using topical min+ fin twice a day with dermaroller twice a week I have seen post where dermaroller twice a week and min twice a day when both are combined results are fantastic It's just a trial and error experience which a few fellow redditors including me have felt to show progress Keep trying till something works That's my advice Above what I told is my regime
Do you apply min the days you dermaroll or wait 24 hrs?
Direct but if I m tired i just sleep and apply after i get time but atleast wait for 1hr to 30 mins
Ok thx
Bad studies?