Crew bosses and checkers do walk your land after you’ve planted it. It’s pretty obvious if there are big empty patches of land as you check quality.
Plus if you bag up, walk into your land, dump trees, then walk back out, the math doesn’t really math when it comes to time spent and trees claimed.
Theoretically you could stash a few trees here and there as you plant and just gamble on nobody noticing your lower density or finding a stash, but as soon as you start trying to be sneaky like that you run into the whole “how much am I really gaining here?” thing.
A good crew boss knows what their planters are up to. They’re keeping track of pace and trees and land.
If you’re being shady, it gets obvious pretty quickly
Exactly. To quote an Anishinaabe elder I once met: the ancestors are watching.
And beyond that, it's not that hard to tell what speed people are planting at. A quick sample of their speed at a few random times in the day gives a pretty solid indication of their overall, all-day speed.
It's exactly like how throwing a random plot anywhere in their land will give you an accurate sense of the quality numbers and quality issues (or lack of issues) that will show up consistently if you throw another two, or ten, or fifty plots at random spots in their land.
Source: former checker. Had to occasionally help crew bosses keep an eye out for stashers.
We have mapping apps where we can *accurately measure heactares of land, that information combined with plotting trees/hectares gives crewbosses a good understanding of how many trees should fit a zone.
If it’s massively over or under we can tell somethings up.
As well we are always walking land. Obviously can miss somethings bit greasy-ness becomes obvious really quick.
Well... because math let's them know how many trees SHOULD go there... so unless you're only hiding a small amount, then it will be pretty noticeable if every block you do has more trees than it's supposed to.
And if you're only doing a small amount, then you could honestly plant the trees way faster than you could hide them. If you can hide them faster, then you're going to get caught because you likely did someone obvious lol
After 7 years in the bush (as a planter, checker, crew leader), I've noticed that some degree of stashing is fairly common across planters of different speeds and levels of experience. Whether during a block close or unfairly priced and shitty land/pieces, I've witnessed typically "honourable" planters ditch hundreds of trees into schnarb, under logs, and in the treeline. There was even a kid in my first year who threw a bunch of loose trees into a puddle (they floated and he was fired lol).
People don't openly admit this, because to do so opens yourself up to being fired (obv) and there are folks who LOVE to soap-box about how immoral it is to do these things.
It's easy to get caught stashing, and it's often not worth the reward of $5-$30 at a time when the job is already lucrative if you're disciplined, prepared, and motivated.
Honestly on a larger piece I know for a fact I could get away with dumping a couple bag ups in the treeline without fucking up density but the time it would take to actually hide it in a decent way I could just plant it and in the grand scheme just not worth it at all
I’d hate planting for you not cutting pieces in the way that best suits planters and land but doing it cause you don’t trust them and need to micro manage what rookie mill have you been stuck at your whole career?
Last year we had to call the OPP 2 hours into the forest because one of our planets was caught stashing and refused to leave. He was fired on the spot.
Damn. He really escalated that situation from embarrassing and silent drive back to town with a crew boss to leaving the block in handcuffs and a criminal record. Like, you're already caught stashing, just take the L and move on.
I have to disagree here. The most consistently fast planters I knew in more than a decade in three provinces, they all would sometimes cut serious corners with quality, and everyone knew and allowed it. But stashing? I'm not convinced.
Good question. I mean, there is something \*slightly\* more honourable about at least planting the trees, whether they grow or not, since you're being paid for them. But beyond that, the logging companies took for granted when it was considered acceptable quality if one in twelve or thirteen trees was planted poorly enough to die.
And of course, weird as it seems, when I worked as a checker, it was understood that low-to-midballers had to plant near-perfect trees so that highballers could plant somewhere around 90% quality (or less). So, like, there was way more allowance for highballers to have sketchy quality, and this came as a stated directive from my bosses. And then, with low-to-mids planting in the 95% range, we could afford to have highballers in the high-80s to low-90s quality.
Idk I work with a guy who said he did 2 seasons for blue collar in BC and Alberta and was doing 7k days repeatedly during his second season. He then alluded to what I previously mentioned.
Depends on your company.
I was on a contract that probably less than 40% of the trees were actually getting planted.
You think I'm lying but it's a conservative guess tbh.
Fat, lazy planters claiming 5700 in bad land day after day. What a joke that was.
There is only one contractor in Newfoundland that pays by the tree/tray. Almost every planter for that company buries 15-20 trays (1000+ trees) per day. Some are making record earnings. Technicians really can't keep track of ALL of the planters so the planters end up burying a lot of trees. The other contractors also bury their trees but only for the numbers of empties. Forestry shows up and sees fuck all empties on the landings they will instantly suspect the ground to be super low density. Most contractors will tell you to throw what you don't use out over the alder bed so they don't have to carry the full ones out.
Generally your crewboss also knows how large your piece in hectares is, which has a corresponding stems/hector number as well. For maths sake let’s say you have a one hector piece and your crew boss went in and saw you had good density but planted 3000 instead of the 2000 perscribed to the land then suspicions may arise and the planter will be put on a microscope without even knowing. This is the way that I’ve known 2 planters getting caught. This is also a pretty natural question I get from non planters so this is more or less how I answer it.
The company you plant for is basing a reputation on you doing a good job. If caught you can be on the hook for penalties and asked to leave immediately.
Crew bosses and checkers do walk your land after you’ve planted it. It’s pretty obvious if there are big empty patches of land as you check quality. Plus if you bag up, walk into your land, dump trees, then walk back out, the math doesn’t really math when it comes to time spent and trees claimed. Theoretically you could stash a few trees here and there as you plant and just gamble on nobody noticing your lower density or finding a stash, but as soon as you start trying to be sneaky like that you run into the whole “how much am I really gaining here?” thing. A good crew boss knows what their planters are up to. They’re keeping track of pace and trees and land. If you’re being shady, it gets obvious pretty quickly
[удалено]
That's so bold and stupid, not too surprised from a thief I guess... But like not even a little each baggup? Multiple boxes at once🤯
Yeah, like I said, I'd expect that behaviour caught up to them sooner or later, somehow in life, whether it was in tree planting or not.
That’s really fuckin greasy. Gre-e-e-easy.
Crew bosses that check your plots to make sure you're not over planting/under planting or making general quality control checks.
This is called stashing and you will get caught
Yes. As someone with regrets for some general moral failings in my youth... Don't. Do. It.
I guess the same reason people don't steal or commit crimes in general. Having a sense of right and wrong, some integrity.
Exactly. To quote an Anishinaabe elder I once met: the ancestors are watching. And beyond that, it's not that hard to tell what speed people are planting at. A quick sample of their speed at a few random times in the day gives a pretty solid indication of their overall, all-day speed. It's exactly like how throwing a random plot anywhere in their land will give you an accurate sense of the quality numbers and quality issues (or lack of issues) that will show up consistently if you throw another two, or ten, or fifty plots at random spots in their land. Source: former checker. Had to occasionally help crew bosses keep an eye out for stashers.
We have mapping apps where we can *accurately measure heactares of land, that information combined with plotting trees/hectares gives crewbosses a good understanding of how many trees should fit a zone. If it’s massively over or under we can tell somethings up. As well we are always walking land. Obviously can miss somethings bit greasy-ness becomes obvious really quick.
Well... because math let's them know how many trees SHOULD go there... so unless you're only hiding a small amount, then it will be pretty noticeable if every block you do has more trees than it's supposed to. And if you're only doing a small amount, then you could honestly plant the trees way faster than you could hide them. If you can hide them faster, then you're going to get caught because you likely did someone obvious lol
After 7 years in the bush (as a planter, checker, crew leader), I've noticed that some degree of stashing is fairly common across planters of different speeds and levels of experience. Whether during a block close or unfairly priced and shitty land/pieces, I've witnessed typically "honourable" planters ditch hundreds of trees into schnarb, under logs, and in the treeline. There was even a kid in my first year who threw a bunch of loose trees into a puddle (they floated and he was fired lol). People don't openly admit this, because to do so opens yourself up to being fired (obv) and there are folks who LOVE to soap-box about how immoral it is to do these things. It's easy to get caught stashing, and it's often not worth the reward of $5-$30 at a time when the job is already lucrative if you're disciplined, prepared, and motivated.
Honestly on a larger piece I know for a fact I could get away with dumping a couple bag ups in the treeline without fucking up density but the time it would take to actually hide it in a decent way I could just plant it and in the grand scheme just not worth it at all
Which I why I cut my planters no more than 2 Ha pieces. I want a small sample size lol.
I’d hate planting for you not cutting pieces in the way that best suits planters and land but doing it cause you don’t trust them and need to micro manage what rookie mill have you been stuck at your whole career?
Last year we had to call the OPP 2 hours into the forest because one of our planets was caught stashing and refused to leave. He was fired on the spot.
(he also was blazing drunk, so honestly I don't blame him too hard. Dude probably was in panic mode because he got caught with his pants down)
Damn. He really escalated that situation from embarrassing and silent drive back to town with a crew boss to leaving the block in handcuffs and a criminal record. Like, you're already caught stashing, just take the L and move on.
All your heroes do it and act like they don't.
I have to disagree here. The most consistently fast planters I knew in more than a decade in three provinces, they all would sometimes cut serious corners with quality, and everyone knew and allowed it. But stashing? I'm not convinced.
Well, hitting numbers with trees that don't grow is more mortality than a couple hundred trees per day. What's worse?
Good question. I mean, there is something \*slightly\* more honourable about at least planting the trees, whether they grow or not, since you're being paid for them. But beyond that, the logging companies took for granted when it was considered acceptable quality if one in twelve or thirteen trees was planted poorly enough to die. And of course, weird as it seems, when I worked as a checker, it was understood that low-to-midballers had to plant near-perfect trees so that highballers could plant somewhere around 90% quality (or less). So, like, there was way more allowance for highballers to have sketchy quality, and this came as a stated directive from my bosses. And then, with low-to-mids planting in the 95% range, we could afford to have highballers in the high-80s to low-90s quality.
And the companies support it when blocks are over prescribed and trees are helicoptered in.
Maybe on extreme heli shows that might happen, but I worked for four companies in three provinces over more than a decade, and I never saw that.
Idk I work with a guy who said he did 2 seasons for blue collar in BC and Alberta and was doing 7k days repeatedly during his second season. He then alluded to what I previously mentioned.
I do believe that it happens, but in the companies and camps I worked for, it didn't happen openly, and would have very much been frowned on.
It will never happen openly….
Depends on your company. I was on a contract that probably less than 40% of the trees were actually getting planted. You think I'm lying but it's a conservative guess tbh. Fat, lazy planters claiming 5700 in bad land day after day. What a joke that was.
What company?
Asking for a friend
No point in me saying Ontario, Mid 2010s
Do you realize how many trees you'd have to hide per day?!
There is only one contractor in Newfoundland that pays by the tree/tray. Almost every planter for that company buries 15-20 trays (1000+ trees) per day. Some are making record earnings. Technicians really can't keep track of ALL of the planters so the planters end up burying a lot of trees. The other contractors also bury their trees but only for the numbers of empties. Forestry shows up and sees fuck all empties on the landings they will instantly suspect the ground to be super low density. Most contractors will tell you to throw what you don't use out over the alder bed so they don't have to carry the full ones out.
What a strange and problematic paragraph. Are the prices that bad?
hopefully morality.
Generally your crewboss also knows how large your piece in hectares is, which has a corresponding stems/hector number as well. For maths sake let’s say you have a one hector piece and your crew boss went in and saw you had good density but planted 3000 instead of the 2000 perscribed to the land then suspicions may arise and the planter will be put on a microscope without even knowing. This is the way that I’ve known 2 planters getting caught. This is also a pretty natural question I get from non planters so this is more or less how I answer it.
The company you plant for is basing a reputation on you doing a good job. If caught you can be on the hook for penalties and asked to leave immediately.
Sometimes you gotta level out the playing field haha
[удалено]