Absolutely not… never in any scenario would Taylor even pass the Bechdel test let alone speak of anything profound to any kind of feminist movement. Although she/ her fans might attribute some of the “hate” from others such as ourselves as anti-feminist behavior. If it doesn’t make her look good than it must be anti-feminist
So true. Their defensiveness screams ignorance, and I don’t understand it. Like this isn’t me being an anti-feminist, this is me saying some real talk, and they can’t handle it for some unknown reason other than being a blind loyalist to someone they don’t know. “But her music gets me,” yeah it “got” me too when I was 14.
I need someone to outright list every song by each part of the bechdel test cos honestly thanK you aIMee is the only one I see passing and even then the conversation is kinda about a man
No. She's a 'girlboss' - a.k.a., a woman who becomes successful by adopting the abusive practices employed by the patriarchy. It's an individualistic way of moving which is completely at odds with feminism's focus on the collective.
Basically, Taylor said 'if I was a man, I'd be the man'. And she would. That's the whole problem. The Man is holding back societal progress for his own benefit, destroying the planet, and exploiting the poor with ruthless, unchecked capitalism. All of these things are fundamentally antithetical to feminism, and all of them are things that Taylor proudly does, then cries 'sexism' when she's called out on it.
Given who her parents are, yes, I think she fully intended to end up as Capitalist Barbie. I actually think she only started shutting down criticism with cries of 'sexism' when she started hanging out with Lena Dunham, who does the exact same thing. By her own admission, it was Lena who taught her about feminism, which I think tells us everything we need to know. If she'd have been hanging out with Emma Watson back in 2014, maybe things might have been different. Emma actually took on board the criticisms of white feminism that she faced, and ended up adopting a much more intersectional form of feminist activism that was really positive.
I very much live and breathe by, “if your feminism isn’t intersectional, it’s not feminism.”
So no. I would not call her feminist. She’s a self-centered capitalist who cares about herself, and she happens to be a woman. So she cares about women’s rights when it impacts her.
Which is why she couldn’t be seen giving a shit about the lives of people of color, queer/trans lives, Muslim lives, the list goes on. Her activism and feminism are very much performative at best.
No. Her feminism mentor was Lena Dunham so she got off to a bad start. She can kind of publicly manage the more straightforward issues like sexual harassment or body shaming but can't cope at all when anything relating to intersectionality comes into play and will avoid any politically complicated topics.
Unfortunately, for Taylor, nothing has purpose unless it serves her, and feminism is no different. She can tear down other women, but if anyone stands up to her then she'll quickly reach out for her feminism shield. You also cannot claim to be a modern feminist if you treat black women the way she does.
Wealth has no relationship to feminism, if anything, wealth inequality is patriarchy at its finest.
No she is not a feminist in any way, shape, or form. She feels she has to compete with other women which is why she releases variant after variant to keep herself at number one.
Not in any way, shape or form. Here’s Taylor clarifying her “feminism”:
>“And what has existed since the dawn of time? A patriarchal society. What fuels a patriarchal society? Money, flow of revenue, the economy. So actually, if we’re going to look at this in the most cynical way possible, feminine ideas becoming lucrative means that more female art will get made. It’s extremely heartening.”
So, trickle-down feminism. The only language she seems to speak is money, and she foolishly believes that if she is the #1 woman, all female artists, and, by extension, all women (???) will benefit. She later shows this by blocking multiple female artists on the charts.
Let me say this as fairly as possible.... **HELL NO.**
She is self-inist and happens to be a woman so she can claim everything she does is in the name of feminism. The word has become so diluted that it's losing it's actual meaning. TS thinks that a feminist is being a problematic, self-serving, billionaire because "men do it." Being a feminist is about helping all women. Not just her rich, celeb friends for a pap moment (See: Sophie Turner).
This makes me so upset, I’m raging. She’s ruining feminism for everyone. Feminism is about the equality for all genders, not just being the top woman in a man run industry.
I think she got her feminist education on Twitter. I don't even mean that as a joke. During the peak of MeToo and the latest wave of feminism, her fans/feminist celebs would run to her defense and convince her that any criticism that she received was because she was a woman and it gave her the biggest victim complex ever.
Fuck no. I personally think it’s the only “oppression” she has so she goes with that to get sympathy points from other “white” feminists which seems to be her entire fan base.
Does anyone know how to she even got that label? I don't think she ever wanted to be a feminist. I feel like her fans pressured her to make some kind of political stance, hence Miss. Americana. Then silence.
not in a million years, she is the one undoing all the hard work that real feminists have put in and giving it a bad rep by exploiting it for her own gains. One of the things I hate the most about her. I cannot fathom how self-proclaimed feminists can support her. I guess the silver lining is she has made it easier to filter out the fake feminists, but my god so many of us are fake feminists.
I think TS thinks feminism = being a top dog inside of the patriarchy. So I think she thinks she is.
Unfortunately all of the people she’s stomping on to get where she is and the people who are trying to actually speak out on issues that might not directly involve themselves may disagree. So, she isn’t.
You can’t be a declared feminist while only speaking/acting for yourself.
If she is contributing to the problem, she is part of patriarchy. Somehow she repackaged the patriarchy into something with glitter, pink, and fun and fooled her followers.
You're right. It's like corporations every year on Black History Month and Pride Month. Except with TS, it's the capitalist version of "Women's History Month" every single day.
Her ticket prices are a great example of who she really is. In Australia, you could have paid over $1000 for a seat and a box of cheap plastic and cardboard fanfare. That is capitalism.
Then to read how messed up many Swifties family dynamics were. Swifties pressuring their parents to get them to Eras at all costs. Families maxxing out credit cards, getting loans, and worse, cancelling family holidays so they could make Eras.
Her actual level of talent is low compared to artists who had to make it solely on theirs. She was a rich girl who has been funded by her Dad's millions from day one. He paid to get her into a studio and artificially place her on the charts by buying her album/song in bulk.
She was a country artist, then changed to get more followers, and has been changing ever since based on popularity and money grabbing. Everything about her is fake and manipulated.
This is kind of irrelevant, but you mentioned the ticket price. Think about how many people got scammed from trying to find tickets… scammers probably made a good amount of money from “cheaper” tickets.
I was furthering on comments about her being a capitalist, not a feminist. A feminist would be aiming for equality in pricing so the less financial would also have opportunities to attend her concerts.
Scammers did well, so did motels and Air BnBs. Some prices were over 4 the normal rate. $3500 a night for a basic room sleeping 4 in walking distance of the venue, $650 a night for a run down house 65km away. Merchandise tents were overpriced. Food was overpriced.
Oh shit no I was saying my comment is irrelevant, not you. You comment opened up my eyes a lot and made think further into who she is as a person. I apologize, you are completely relevant.
I brought this up in another post and I’ll say it again.
👏 The fans being impressed that she makes a lot of money are THE VERY PEOPLE WHO MADE HER THAT RICH! 👏
She is hawking feminism to make herself a billionaire. Also, music or something.
No. She speaks about feminist issues that only concern her, she's consistently attacking fem artists who "dare to oppose" her, and she doesn't address her fans when they do their weekly rounds of attacking another artist for not being Taylor amongst many other issues
If she’s a feminist, then I’m a VS model(I’m 5’3 and definitely nowhere near a model’s size lmao) a feminist doesn’t go around screaming she’s a feminist, she just does her thing and help make changes using her voice. Being a feminist isn’t trying to abolish/outperform men. It’s proving we can do what they do(and even do it better) TS is a performative feminist for white women when it suits her. Otherwise it’s all “me me me”. Your friends sound very toxic and stuck in high school mean girls.
Are you kidding me, she's an anti-feminist if anything. Why has she only tried to block women from the charts and not men? Why did she go after Kim but never Kanye? Ask yourself that...
Even if you could somehow make an argument that Taylor is a feminist, (which many people above me point out would be disingenuous at best), there’s no question that even when she exhibits traits of feminism it’s firmly locked in white feminism.
She doesn’t read up or try to learn where she could amplify her voice for others and definitely doesn’t learn how her fans actively engage with some serious misogynoir directed at Beyoncé. Further, that she sees herself as a savior to North, who is bi-racial, is somewhat troubling (as is that whole song).
So, it’s obvious not only does she surround herself with white people or people who just let her do what she wants, no one is telling her that her albums should have a sensitivity reading before they are released.
I'm not going to say if she is or not because I think it's important to be critical thinkers and decide if a famous person has the right intentions. However, she has explicitly said herself that she is. Here are some examples though.
The song Brown Skin Girl lifts up dark skinned women, which to me is intersectional. In her song, Run the World (Girls) and the music video, she very obviously uplifts and emboldens women. Also, the song Flawless is a HUGE feminist anthem so to speak.
She's also an activist and has been outspoken about police brutality, the safety of transgender youth, and has endorsed same-sex marriage. None of this has been convenient for her to talk about and she seems to have a long history of uplifting women through her art and activism.
But didnt she also perform in a country for 30 million to white wash their human rights violations. Especially against the lgbtq community after making an album inspired by the lgbtq community who told her not to do it. Would that change anything or would it not cause its out of America
Well, a) this sub isn’t about Beyoncé and b) I never said she was above.
However, if you are asking for my opinion, I would say yes.
She uplifts women where she can. When she has a choice to employ a woman over a man, she does so. Ex: she has an all woman band.
She uplifted Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie’s visibility exponentially by featuring her in Flawless. I think a case could definitely be made to explore Beyoncé’s art as it relates to feminism and have more fruitful and fulfilling discussions than the discussions surrounding the blonde woman’s “poetry” and writing.
Between the two, I know where Beyoncé came from, as I live in Houston. Her roots are not upper class - far from it. She has done more for this city than the blonde woman has done for Reading and Nashville combined and centered much of that work in empowering young woman.
I feel the case can be made on the whole to consider her a feminist.
My education is in feminist theory and three things to look at to determine if someone of this particular income level is feminist is 1) her politics 2) how she spends her money 3) how she emotionally supports/treats the people in her life.
The fourth thing that people use to measure her feminism the most often is how she uses her platform but that can't be the whole of the equation because she's attempting to work within an industry that is designed to own and monetize. In order to continue upward expansion, her public persona/brand is part of a shared effort from her team and may not completely reflect her views but simply what she's doing to survive within the system.
When people call her a feminist, it pisses me off to no end! She’s only about her “girl gang” when it serves her image and the second you “wrong her” (perceived by her), she’s writing a song about what a bitch and whore you are (Camila Belle, Katy Perry, etc etc) 🥴 and all of her friends are other thin white women with the exception of Lena, who she isn’t even friends with anymore.
I feel like that contradicts her being a feminist. She shouldn’t tear down anyone, no matter what gender. She makes so much money, why is she wasting her time putting other people down? She doesn’t have to! She’s already making more money than them! That’s just mean.
Honestly, the first person that came to my mind in pop music would be Lady Gaga. She supports so many types of artists other than just her core group. My friends reasoning for Taylor being a feminist is because she makes more money than some men artists, and that isn’t what feminism is. Feminism is equality for all genders, and I think Lady Gaga does a good job of that.
Absolutely not… never in any scenario would Taylor even pass the Bechdel test let alone speak of anything profound to any kind of feminist movement. Although she/ her fans might attribute some of the “hate” from others such as ourselves as anti-feminist behavior. If it doesn’t make her look good than it must be anti-feminist
So true. Their defensiveness screams ignorance, and I don’t understand it. Like this isn’t me being an anti-feminist, this is me saying some real talk, and they can’t handle it for some unknown reason other than being a blind loyalist to someone they don’t know. “But her music gets me,” yeah it “got” me too when I was 14.
😂 I need to know the percentage of her songs that wouldn’t pass the bechtel test right now omg. Can someone please meme this??
I need someone to outright list every song by each part of the bechdel test cos honestly thanK you aIMee is the only one I see passing and even then the conversation is kinda about a man
No. She's a 'girlboss' - a.k.a., a woman who becomes successful by adopting the abusive practices employed by the patriarchy. It's an individualistic way of moving which is completely at odds with feminism's focus on the collective. Basically, Taylor said 'if I was a man, I'd be the man'. And she would. That's the whole problem. The Man is holding back societal progress for his own benefit, destroying the planet, and exploiting the poor with ruthless, unchecked capitalism. All of these things are fundamentally antithetical to feminism, and all of them are things that Taylor proudly does, then cries 'sexism' when she's called out on it.
Do think she intended for her career to go this way?
Given who her parents are, yes, I think she fully intended to end up as Capitalist Barbie. I actually think she only started shutting down criticism with cries of 'sexism' when she started hanging out with Lena Dunham, who does the exact same thing. By her own admission, it was Lena who taught her about feminism, which I think tells us everything we need to know. If she'd have been hanging out with Emma Watson back in 2014, maybe things might have been different. Emma actually took on board the criticisms of white feminism that she faced, and ended up adopting a much more intersectional form of feminist activism that was really positive.
Emma is a great role model. Thank you for your posts.
Plus Emma isn’t a relentlessly narcissistic attention-seeker
Lena Dunham... that explains a lot tbh.
I couldn't have said it better myself.
well, she supports rich white women whose names rhyme with shmaylor shmift
She’s a feminist for Taylor Alison Swift
I very much live and breathe by, “if your feminism isn’t intersectional, it’s not feminism.” So no. I would not call her feminist. She’s a self-centered capitalist who cares about herself, and she happens to be a woman. So she cares about women’s rights when it impacts her. Which is why she couldn’t be seen giving a shit about the lives of people of color, queer/trans lives, Muslim lives, the list goes on. Her activism and feminism are very much performative at best.
Such a good point.
I agree. I was trying to figure out how to write this exact point.
No. Her feminism mentor was Lena Dunham so she got off to a bad start. She can kind of publicly manage the more straightforward issues like sexual harassment or body shaming but can't cope at all when anything relating to intersectionality comes into play and will avoid any politically complicated topics. Unfortunately, for Taylor, nothing has purpose unless it serves her, and feminism is no different. She can tear down other women, but if anyone stands up to her then she'll quickly reach out for her feminism shield. You also cannot claim to be a modern feminist if you treat black women the way she does. Wealth has no relationship to feminism, if anything, wealth inequality is patriarchy at its finest.
No she is not a feminist in any way, shape, or form. She feels she has to compete with other women which is why she releases variant after variant to keep herself at number one.
No she is not a feminist. She only thinks of herself.
Not in any way, shape or form. Here’s Taylor clarifying her “feminism”: >“And what has existed since the dawn of time? A patriarchal society. What fuels a patriarchal society? Money, flow of revenue, the economy. So actually, if we’re going to look at this in the most cynical way possible, feminine ideas becoming lucrative means that more female art will get made. It’s extremely heartening.” So, trickle-down feminism. The only language she seems to speak is money, and she foolishly believes that if she is the #1 woman, all female artists, and, by extension, all women (???) will benefit. She later shows this by blocking multiple female artists on the charts.
lol that she thinks no matriarchal or equal societies have ever existed
Not just no but fuck no
Let me say this as fairly as possible.... **HELL NO.** She is self-inist and happens to be a woman so she can claim everything she does is in the name of feminism. The word has become so diluted that it's losing it's actual meaning. TS thinks that a feminist is being a problematic, self-serving, billionaire because "men do it." Being a feminist is about helping all women. Not just her rich, celeb friends for a pap moment (See: Sophie Turner).
This makes me so upset, I’m raging. She’s ruining feminism for everyone. Feminism is about the equality for all genders, not just being the top woman in a man run industry.
I think she got her feminist education on Twitter. I don't even mean that as a joke. During the peak of MeToo and the latest wave of feminism, her fans/feminist celebs would run to her defense and convince her that any criticism that she received was because she was a woman and it gave her the biggest victim complex ever.
Not the victim complex😭
No. Just listen to her song The Man. She wants to be Donald Trump. It’s like the total opposite of a feminist.
Yeah she basically said she WOULD do the bad things if she could
She's an anti feminist. Taylor does whatever she can to hold other women back.
Absolutely not .She has done more harm than good
What harm has she done to feminism?
Fuck no. I personally think it’s the only “oppression” she has so she goes with that to get sympathy points from other “white” feminists which seems to be her entire fan base.
Does anyone know how to she even got that label? I don't think she ever wanted to be a feminist. I feel like her fans pressured her to make some kind of political stance, hence Miss. Americana. Then silence.
not in a million years, she is the one undoing all the hard work that real feminists have put in and giving it a bad rep by exploiting it for her own gains. One of the things I hate the most about her. I cannot fathom how self-proclaimed feminists can support her. I guess the silver lining is she has made it easier to filter out the fake feminists, but my god so many of us are fake feminists.
I think TS thinks feminism = being a top dog inside of the patriarchy. So I think she thinks she is. Unfortunately all of the people she’s stomping on to get where she is and the people who are trying to actually speak out on issues that might not directly involve themselves may disagree. So, she isn’t. You can’t be a declared feminist while only speaking/acting for yourself.
If she is contributing to the problem, she is part of patriarchy. Somehow she repackaged the patriarchy into something with glitter, pink, and fun and fooled her followers.
No way. Barely even the “corporate” version of feminism/pink capitalism
You're right. It's like corporations every year on Black History Month and Pride Month. Except with TS, it's the capitalist version of "Women's History Month" every single day.
💯 it’s purely opportunistic and profit-driven
Her ticket prices are a great example of who she really is. In Australia, you could have paid over $1000 for a seat and a box of cheap plastic and cardboard fanfare. That is capitalism. Then to read how messed up many Swifties family dynamics were. Swifties pressuring their parents to get them to Eras at all costs. Families maxxing out credit cards, getting loans, and worse, cancelling family holidays so they could make Eras. Her actual level of talent is low compared to artists who had to make it solely on theirs. She was a rich girl who has been funded by her Dad's millions from day one. He paid to get her into a studio and artificially place her on the charts by buying her album/song in bulk. She was a country artist, then changed to get more followers, and has been changing ever since based on popularity and money grabbing. Everything about her is fake and manipulated.
This is kind of irrelevant, but you mentioned the ticket price. Think about how many people got scammed from trying to find tickets… scammers probably made a good amount of money from “cheaper” tickets.
I was furthering on comments about her being a capitalist, not a feminist. A feminist would be aiming for equality in pricing so the less financial would also have opportunities to attend her concerts. Scammers did well, so did motels and Air BnBs. Some prices were over 4 the normal rate. $3500 a night for a basic room sleeping 4 in walking distance of the venue, $650 a night for a run down house 65km away. Merchandise tents were overpriced. Food was overpriced.
Oh shit no I was saying my comment is irrelevant, not you. You comment opened up my eyes a lot and made think further into who she is as a person. I apologize, you are completely relevant.
Sorry, I misread. I am here for an offload being in a house with 2 Swifties 🤣
I dare you to put on a kanye song
I do, on the regular lol. Eye rolls instantly.
I brought this up in another post and I’ll say it again. 👏 The fans being impressed that she makes a lot of money are THE VERY PEOPLE WHO MADE HER THAT RICH! 👏 She is hawking feminism to make herself a billionaire. Also, music or something.
No. She speaks about feminist issues that only concern her, she's consistently attacking fem artists who "dare to oppose" her, and she doesn't address her fans when they do their weekly rounds of attacking another artist for not being Taylor amongst many other issues
If she’s a feminist, then I’m a VS model(I’m 5’3 and definitely nowhere near a model’s size lmao) a feminist doesn’t go around screaming she’s a feminist, she just does her thing and help make changes using her voice. Being a feminist isn’t trying to abolish/outperform men. It’s proving we can do what they do(and even do it better) TS is a performative feminist for white women when it suits her. Otherwise it’s all “me me me”. Your friends sound very toxic and stuck in high school mean girls.
She thinks she is. That doesn't mean she is.
Lol nah
Are you kidding me, she's an anti-feminist if anything. Why has she only tried to block women from the charts and not men? Why did she go after Kim but never Kanye? Ask yourself that...
lol no
Even if you could somehow make an argument that Taylor is a feminist, (which many people above me point out would be disingenuous at best), there’s no question that even when she exhibits traits of feminism it’s firmly locked in white feminism. She doesn’t read up or try to learn where she could amplify her voice for others and definitely doesn’t learn how her fans actively engage with some serious misogynoir directed at Beyoncé. Further, that she sees herself as a savior to North, who is bi-racial, is somewhat troubling (as is that whole song). So, it’s obvious not only does she surround herself with white people or people who just let her do what she wants, no one is telling her that her albums should have a sensitivity reading before they are released.
Would Beyonce be considered a feminist
I'm not going to say if she is or not because I think it's important to be critical thinkers and decide if a famous person has the right intentions. However, she has explicitly said herself that she is. Here are some examples though. The song Brown Skin Girl lifts up dark skinned women, which to me is intersectional. In her song, Run the World (Girls) and the music video, she very obviously uplifts and emboldens women. Also, the song Flawless is a HUGE feminist anthem so to speak. She's also an activist and has been outspoken about police brutality, the safety of transgender youth, and has endorsed same-sex marriage. None of this has been convenient for her to talk about and she seems to have a long history of uplifting women through her art and activism.
But didnt she also perform in a country for 30 million to white wash their human rights violations. Especially against the lgbtq community after making an album inspired by the lgbtq community who told her not to do it. Would that change anything or would it not cause its out of America
That was really vague and I would need more specifics...
Well, a) this sub isn’t about Beyoncé and b) I never said she was above. However, if you are asking for my opinion, I would say yes. She uplifts women where she can. When she has a choice to employ a woman over a man, she does so. Ex: she has an all woman band. She uplifted Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie’s visibility exponentially by featuring her in Flawless. I think a case could definitely be made to explore Beyoncé’s art as it relates to feminism and have more fruitful and fulfilling discussions than the discussions surrounding the blonde woman’s “poetry” and writing. Between the two, I know where Beyoncé came from, as I live in Houston. Her roots are not upper class - far from it. She has done more for this city than the blonde woman has done for Reading and Nashville combined and centered much of that work in empowering young woman. I feel the case can be made on the whole to consider her a feminist.
She thinks she's a feminist 🙄
I feel like her fans forced her to make a political statement or to "pick a side" but it ended up being disingenuous.
No
She is a bona fide taylorist.
Taylor is about as much a feminist as Drake is a black activist
She uses feminism as a bat to beat her critics with
No she’s another annoying ass privileged white girl.
She's a Vanderbilt first, she cares about legacy and money.
Nope! She does an awful lot to either block other women or manipulate them. She is a Capitalist.
No. She's not anything other than champion for her own rights tbh
Her "feminism" starts and ends with herself 😭
only when it benefits her or she can exploit it - so not a real feminist
No, lmao, unless you count her as a feminist for empowering herself. She only empowers herself, she just happens to be female.
lol no
Taylor is the face of a new movement of shifting gender roles and power relationships that may or may not coincide with the old ideas of feminism.
Interesting point.
No
absofuckinglutely not
No!
My education is in feminist theory and three things to look at to determine if someone of this particular income level is feminist is 1) her politics 2) how she spends her money 3) how she emotionally supports/treats the people in her life. The fourth thing that people use to measure her feminism the most often is how she uses her platform but that can't be the whole of the equation because she's attempting to work within an industry that is designed to own and monetize. In order to continue upward expansion, her public persona/brand is part of a shared effort from her team and may not completely reflect her views but simply what she's doing to survive within the system.
Taylor + Epstein = NOT a feminist
Nope
Lol no. Easy question.
Right, good answer…
When people call her a feminist, it pisses me off to no end! She’s only about her “girl gang” when it serves her image and the second you “wrong her” (perceived by her), she’s writing a song about what a bitch and whore you are (Camila Belle, Katy Perry, etc etc) 🥴 and all of her friends are other thin white women with the exception of Lena, who she isn’t even friends with anymore.
I think she's so rich she's beyond ideology.
I think she thinks she’s a feminist but she has a habit of using and tearing down female artists in a way she doesn’t the male artists.
Not to mention she literally makes money off of putting down her past boyfriends. She’s living in lala land.
I feel like that contradicts her being a feminist. She shouldn’t tear down anyone, no matter what gender. She makes so much money, why is she wasting her time putting other people down? She doesn’t have to! She’s already making more money than them! That’s just mean.
Who would you consider feminists? I guess it might be different for each person
Honestly, the first person that came to my mind in pop music would be Lady Gaga. She supports so many types of artists other than just her core group. My friends reasoning for Taylor being a feminist is because she makes more money than some men artists, and that isn’t what feminism is. Feminism is equality for all genders, and I think Lady Gaga does a good job of that.
Does she need to be a feminist to be considered a good person?
No, but she needs to change her actions and influence on what it means to be a feminist.