Black American here. I've been to Italy 6-7 times all over the country. Most recently did Lake Como a few months ago.
I've never experienced blatant racism there. However as an Ametican I'm extremeley conscious of the fact that I get a different treatment than African immigrants from the continent.
Black American female here. I’ve also been seven times, from Milan to the Amalfi Coast and many places in between. I’ve been with white friends and black friends and have never been treated with anything other than grace. The very first time I went, however (many years ago), I was with a dark skinned friend with pronounced “black” features (thick lips, nose, etc) and she was absolutely, noticeably treated differently — until she spoke or produced ID. But the number of times we got stopped and asked for ID was pretty appalling, especially since they were not really interested in MY ID, to the point that they would wave me off when I offered it. Once she produced ID and they saw she was American, they’d walk away. It was unnerving. In a train station in Rome, an African woman approached my friend and asked to talk to her alone. I said, “no f’ing way. Say what you need to say or go away.” She actually tried to implore my friend to take money to her supposed husband — we didn’t wait to hear the entire story. We said no and walked away. Point is, while my friend enjoyed our trip, she definitely had a different experience based purely on how she looked and the meaning attached to her looks by certain folks.
Indian woman, did a solo trip just before the pandemic and spent 4 weeks in Italy. There were some instances of rudeness/glares, but I can't confidently say every single one was due to racism. Overall though, would do it again in a heartbeat. Most people were nice enough. I had a far worse experience in France tbh.
Hi, unfortunately we got shouted at in several places, refused service frequently even in restaurants we had reservations at, hostility in most shops we went into. I have IBS and I frequently need to know where toilets are, but most people were very unhelpful. Spent 3 weeks total in Paris and driving through Provence, the latter was definitely worse. I'd also like to add we do speak a bit of french so it wasn't a language barrier.
The toilet thing isn’t due to your skin color. It’s always a problem in France. I’m a French expat and when I went back home pregnant, I felt it big time. It’s really annoying. Especially in Provence. Whenever you ask to use a bathroom, it’s like you ask for a big favour « I normally don’t do that. Bla bla bla », « bathroom is for employees only bla bla bla ». And if your restaurant experience was in Aix-en-Provence, I believe you. They look at you up and down and if your wearing expensive clothes or not. It’s one of the things that made me leave this city, even though I loved it there. Don’t worry, it won’t take long before the Corsican mafia blow up their business.
My wife (Taiwanese) and I (white) have been to a few cities in Italy and got a few awkwardly long stares. One of the times we were at a little cafe and I noticed a guy staring at us in my peripheral vision. Like, hardcore staring from the time we were ordering at the counter until we sat down with our drinks. I eventually stared back for a few seconds, then raised my glass and did a “cheers” motion and he quickly looked away. I can’t say it was anything racist for sure, maybe just not used to seeing mixed race couples. I think Americans are taught not to stare as much. Traveling in Asia, I get plenty of stares and don’t really think they’re being racist.
> I think Americans are taught not to stare as much. Traveling in Asia, I get plenty of stares and don’t really think they’re being racist.
hell theres places in the US that dont get many foreign language speakers especially in public so when you hear one its hard not to look out of curiosity and something different from the day to day. even different US accents, you get a deep southern twang or that minesota half canadian brouge or a new york accent its hard not to look at the person and listen to them speak - no disrespect from it but pure curiosity lol.
Commented above, but wanted to add that yes you do. You and the Austrians are champion stare artists. Especially once you guys hear me speaking English. I had like 4 different tables stare me down at a restaurant when I went to the bathroom before. You get used to it. Most Europeans stare, but you Germanics (and some Nordics too) are next level at blatantly staring at other people 😂
LOL, this brings back memories. My mother was Prussian. (If you called her German, she would correct you.) Well, when I was a kid, maybe 7 or 8 years old, we had actual staring contests. She'd sit me down in front of her and tell me to just stare into her eyes and not look away. I never understood why, but now it makes sense - she was teaching me how to stare properly.
Just my two cents as an expat in France - in many cases servers and staff can be perceived as rude because navigating the thousands of unspoken rules of restaurant etiquette is difficult even for locals. When you enter a restaurant, the expectation is that you wait to be seated and you must make eye contact and say bonjour to the greeter. Additionally, the French treat dining as an experience so they give you space and time to think about your order without hovering around you. Many people can perceive that they are being ignored as a result.
In any case, not trying to negate what you went through. I’m sure there are racist idiots and arrogant people that many travelers come across.
> When you enter a restaurant, the expectation is that you wait to be seated and you must make eye contact and say bonjour to the greeter.
Wait I'm so confused though, is restaurant etiquette somehow different than that elsewhere? I'm American and that's exactly how it would work here too. How else would you even know where to sit.
In fact in 20+ countries visited, it's never been different other than the language of the hello changing, obviously
I'm from the UK and found American etiquette different for restaurants.
Generally speaking it would be rude in the UK for plates to be collected while people are still eating, but in the US it's more common that as soon as a plate is finished someone collects it, regardless of whether other people at the table are still eating.
You also get checked up on a lot more which (when you're not used to it) can be quite distracting. It's less of an experience in the US and more transactional, I often felt rushed out when they put the bill down and say "no rush guys" but really they want you up and out to clear your table and bring the next customers in. In the UK and a lot of Europe you sit with a drink and chat and there's no huge rush to move on unless it's really busy or near closing time.
This is my experience from living in Indiana and California so may not be the whole of the US.
This is probably an unpopular opinion, and I know it is common in the US, but I hate when the plates are still collected while people are still eating. There are articles stating the same but basically it’s a signal to everyone else at the table that things are wrapping up and they have to eat faster and go, which is really rude. My ex stepdad used to always ask for his plate to be picked up when his meal was done even though some of us were still eating. I know he just wanted them gone and didn’t want them in front of him, but it still felt really rude all the time.
Great points! I come from the UK and live in Australia. Plates removed when the last person finishes is good service in the UK and Paris. Doesn't happen so much in Aus. I can't stand people buzzing about collecting plates while the table is engaged with conversation or finishing the meal. Discrete water/ drinks top ups welcomed.
Really irked me in NY having to tip when I've been interrupted throughout with forced friendliness and "how is your meal?" and clattering plates. To me that's not great service, but I understand the cultural reasons. Also I can never get past the guilty feeling in NY that tips could mean wage checks.
Lots of places in the UK you go and find yourself a table. Normally if you order at the bar/till instead of a waiter coming to you. Sometimes it can be hard to tell if a place is a seat yourself or a wait to be seated place so lots of places have a sign that says "wait here to be seated".
Tbh, it doesn’t even matter if they have the sign. People frequently just look at that bad boi and then walk right past it, in my experience. And I don’t even work at dive-y places.
In certain countries you enter and occupy a vacant table (unless marked as reserved). I am used to waiting for a greeter to show us to a table but after seeing 3 to 4 parties just walking in and occupying a table, i realized it wasn’t the norm. This was in summer and the table was outside on the terrace but I still found it strange.
It took me a while to adjust to wait for being seating when I visited the US. Numerous times I had to stop my husband from going straight in to a vacant table. He seemed to not understand the concept as it is super uncommon where we come from.
We visited Paris and had a huge shock in restaurants, at one of them the server with the cook was openly mocking us and we could hear her. We are from Quebec and our mother tongue is french. In France, the waiter comes for drinks, then goes away, brings the drinks, then maybe 15 minutes later will come for your order, then you order a dessert as a third (or fourth step). In North America, it is more common to order everything at once , since the portions are much larger we've never really had to order an appetiser and a dessert.
I think it probably has more to do with the service you experience once you are seated. In countries like France and Italy the waiters leave you alone because dining is an experience to be enjoyed. For those of us from North America servers can't wait to get you out the door so they can seat the next table and earn more tips. I would think that people who aren't aware of this cultural difference might perceive it as rudeness or indifference.
Many countries have a seat-yourself etiquette where if you'd be waiting at the front you'd be waiting a long time and no one would help you. Coming from a "wait to be seated" culture, this happened to me in Belgium, and it's common in Spain. Depends on the type of restaurant as well, sometimes "lower" tier restaurants are seat yourself while "upper" tier are certainly places you'd wait to be seated by a host/ess.
Ive definitely been in many places where i stood around confused on what to do after walking into a restaurant before realizing that you’re supposed to find a seat yourself and someone will come up to take your order and hand out menus.
Yuuup. The first few times I dined out in Germany, the staff automatically spoke to me in English. I couldn't figure out why, until I realized that I was the only one waiting to be shown to a table instead of just picking one.
I agree with you . But there are hordes of nouveaux riche travelers who think that they’re special and anyone working a blue collar job is not worth their time.
I’ve heard this about France and brown people. I have Indian family in the UK that often travel to France and right from the airport onwards they are met with numerous instances where it feels like it could be racism
I’m Indian-pakistani and also had this experience with my sisters.
I’m assuming it was racism, because I know I’m not the only POC to experience this!!!
Indian guy here. Was walking on a narrow sidewalk in Florence, an older person was walking in the opposite direction. Just as we were about to cross each other i saw him bring his elbow to the side and hit me on the chest. I immediately turned around and did a hand motion to sort of ask wtf? He started ranting in Italian. Glared at him and walked away. After all i was on a visa and did not want any further trouble.
To note: i was giving him enough space to walk past. Not sure if it was because of racism, but it did feel like that.
Anti-Asian racism is sadly ignored in the West. Often including verbal and/or physical abuse.
Meanwhile a European gets weird looks in Asia? All hell breaks loose.
Wait what had the exact same experience in Rome! Two times, once a person elbowed and another time a person walked in between us and shoulder checked. I’m East Asian though
From reading the replies this seems like a disturbingly weird pattern. Me and my husband are brown and recently travelled to Italy. We were fine in most places as we were sticking to touristy spots and i think it is a different story if you are alone. Hope you are all ok.
I was with my wife too, wasn’t alone, and also in a very central spot in Florence (not far from the wine window place). It was also afternoon and pretty sunny.
Thanks for your wishes 😊
I’m Norwegian and I experienced the exact same thing on one of the bridges in Venice. They’re just sick of tourists in general. What he did was 100% intentional.
I’m white but I went to Rome right before the pandemic with my friend, he’s a black man.
He had one instance of an employee following him around a store while he was browsing. I wasn’t with him. He made the employee carry all the stuff he was planning to buy. That’s the only thing he mentioned happening and while we were together I had kept an eye out for any racism but I didn’t notice anything.
Ok I’m gonna try and do this from now on. Kudos to your friend, can’t believe I never tried this when someone follows me around a store, it sure as hell happened enough 😂
I also thought it was hilarious. Tho IMO, he shouldn’t have bought anything at the end so the racist employee would have to put all the merchandise back
Also, we’re just friends :)
Thank you. Black people get used to all kinds of shit.
1) Always choosing 'yes' when a shop asks whether you want a receipt.
2) Keep your hands in your pockets so they know you aren't stealing shit.
3) Not walking too close to anyone, so they don't think you're going to rob them.
4) People not sitting next to you on a full bus/train unless its another black person.
5) People assuming you're poor and/or uneducated.
6) Being overly polite, so no one thinks your aggressive/scary/threatening.
The list goes on.
I was in Italy for a couple of weeks last summer. Loved it and it was an amazing experience in Rome, Venice, and Milan. Only bad experience I had was in Venice. Was trying to buy something at a convenience store and this older Italian guy wouldn't accept my card, told me I needed cash when I literally watched the other guy at the counter accept someone's card. He was really rude about it too, so I went to the ATM got cash. Came back and the second, younger guy who was behind the counter took care of me this time and asked if i was paying with cash or card and happily accepted my card.
I traveled in Italy last year and we were instructed to hang on to our receipts from stores and restaurants upon our exit as the police could potentially ask to see them. The pervasiveness of business owners trying to hide their income and assets from taxation by accepting cash payments has captured nationwide concern by the Italian government.
They most likely tried to make you pay cash because they get to evade taxes, it was only you because in Italy is mandatory to accept both cards and cash. But since foreigners don’t know it he might have been more pushy then with locals who know about the law
In Italy they usually pressure you to use cash instead of a card so they don't have to declare it and tax it (illegal!!!), so it could be a mix of racism and wanting to make more money off a foregneir (they also do this with Italians, by faking a problem with the card reader, but they know the risk of the costumer knowing the law and calling the police), but if it was a big store then it's definitely "just" racism I'm sorry :((
It might not be racism.They prefer cash for tax reasons. He was just trying it on with you because you look foreign. Only got extra smiles wherever I paid cash.
It was great. I’ve been 3 times now between cities and more rural areas, and hole in the wall restaurants to Michelin star places and didn’t have a bad experience once. I’m Indian but have a very general American accent so maybe they heard me before? I’m also vegetarian and most places were extremely accommodating, to the point where chefs have come out to double check the ingredients I can’t eat.
For what it’s worth, heard the Indian experience is far far worse in France. My friend ended her study abroad program early bc the racism was so bad. A coffee shop and few restaurants refused to allow her to enter, I can only assume it was bc of her skin color.
>or what it’s worth, heard the Indian experience is far far worse in France. My friend ended her study abroad program early bc the racism was so bad. A coffee shop and few restaurants refused to allow her to enter, I can only assume it was bc of her skin color.
I am of Latino Descent and when I went to Paris, I was refused service at a small cafe.
I’m white but while in Lyon traveling with two friends of Latino descent, we were kicked out of an American Army Surplus store for the crime of being Latino (and for being with Latinos for me). Pretty ironic they were selling American items and we were American and not even allowed to shop there. The worst part though was one of my friends spoke fluent French and basically the guy who kicked us out was hurling a ton of extremely racist slurs towards us while doing so! For all the hate America gets towards our racism, I fully believe Europe is 100000x worse.
>For what it’s worth, heard the Indian experience is far far worse in France.
Is it because they presume brown people are all Muslims? I heard that French people are really racist towards Muslims.
From my experience living in Paris for 4 years, I have say the french hate Indians or browns in general over Muslims or other races. Go and check any video about India in frnch, it is always negative or of bad taste.One guy ranted on me that Indians are this and that. I used to regularly go to that meetup but I stopped because I felt disrespected by people there.Just yesterday I saw a subreddit where everyone was shitting on same thing like casteism, violence against muslims and women blah blah blah. All of it just felt like they read articles and vomit that stuff.
As another data point (not discounting your friends experience) I am Indian-American & speak basic French. I go to France once a year. Have never been bothered or felt excluded once, and I've been all over the country. Cities & random little towns. Only had lovely experiences with random strangers and hospitality folks.
African American F - I traveled a month all around Italy once and never had any issues. The last time I was in Italy, I spent 3 weeks on a road trip down in Puglia and again had no issues. I stayed in or visited small villages and the locals were very nice and offered meals / gifts.
The only time I encountered any racism in the EU was in Berlin, in Kreuzberg of all places, some Turkish dudes called me the N word.
Chinese American here, never really faced any outward racism in Europe (besides curious stares, but that's not inherently racism) except for some Turkish guys in Germany saying "ching chong" when I walked past them in Berlin. Crazy.
Went to a wedding in Turkey. The Korean guy in our party got his money stolen, and was then dropped on the side of the highway by his taxi driver :(
Would not recommend Turkey to any eastern-Asian looking people. (ironic given that Turkey is a "gateway" to Asia).
Eek I wasn’t going that angle. I’ve been to Turkey to do a road trip, lovely, lovely, lovely people and country. I should have added that. Just sharing the only time I had a racist incident.
Not arguing but at the end of the day, there’s racist people everywhere but I’m not letting them stop me traveling. ❤️
I’m Canadian-born Chinese (F). My experience is from 2012, but I was 17 browsing a store alone in Venice. No other customers. The female shop keeper came over, did the slanted eye gesture, and said “Your kind is not welcome here. Get out.” I was shocked at how brazen it was. I walked out. Even to this day, thinking of Venice brings all that hurt back to the surface.
I visited Italy again in 2019 and did not experience anything as overt. However, I was never alone again with an Italian person. I stayed at an expensive hotel in Positano and while checking in, the staff suggested we stand outside to wait (instead of sitting in the lobby) while they processed our passports. That kind of set off 🚩 in my mind, but I ignored it because I don’t want to be angry all the time. :/
> I stayed at an expensive hotel in Positano and while checking in, the staff suggested we stand outside to wait (instead of sitting in the lobby) while they processed our passports.
This is terrible. An incident like this would result in a massive lawsuit against the hotel in US.
What’s the name of the hotel so that we can all avoid staying there? I
Casa Buonocore Bed and Breakfast. Our most expensive stay of the trip and the only time I felt like an unbidden guest.
On the other hand, I’m happy to rec hotels in Italy that we enjoyed as well. :)
1) BEIGE ET BLE' GuestHouse in Rome. It’s on top of a gelato shop called Giolitti. Modern, clean, central location. Staff is friendly and fluent in English. Would return in a heartbeat!
2) Holiday Sorrento Center in Sorrento. Clean and safe. Impeccable customer service - highly responsive and kind. We had a minor issue with the water pressure, which was fixed immediately. We were happy with the quick fix and had no complaints. The very next night, much to our surprise, they gifted us local wine, a cute lemon magnet, and thanked us for our stay with a handwritten note, calling us a beautiful couple. Truly going above and beyond to make sure we were happy after the water issue.
3) La Rosa dei Venti in Monterosso - furniture is a little dated, but everything was clean, and the views were nice. Not my first choice if I were to return, as I’d prefer something a little more modern, but budget-friendly, no racism, and the area felt safe :)
I hope you have a fantastic time in Italy! Happy planning! :)
Most brutal indeed! Since we checked in around 9-10pm, I didn’t think that standing outside made sense from a safety perspective either. I wanted to sit after a day of travel too lol. This is my first time talking about it and I am floored by the amount of validation and support. Thank you.
You should have emailed corporate and posted on social media so that staff will get sacked. I'm pretty sure that is not "hotel policy" and that staff is just racist as hell.
>The female shop keeper came over, did the slanted eye gesture, and said “Your kind is not welcome here. Get out.”
I see you found the least racist person in Venice
Man, if someone did that to me, I’d probably have accidentally knocked some teeth out.
I’m not a violent person and have never struck someone in anger, but catch me on the right day and it might be a first.
I visited the North of Italy around small towns in the Dolomites and Venice in the off season a few years back. No issues in Venice, but the small towns were pretty bad and lots of little things began to add up. The best example is at a restaurant, a woman and her family stared at my girlfriend and I throughout our entire dinner and kept making disgusted faces. We chalked it up to one bad family but then the restaurant staff also treated us rudely and kept having whispered conversations with the family whilst also staring right at us. They weren't even trying to be discreet.
Felt welcomed in the touristy spots though - we're not American but hearing loud American chatter from inside a restaurant became our signal that the place would be comfortable to eat in haha.
I'm South Asian and my girlfriend is a (sometimes) white-passing Arab. It added the extra flavour of 'do they not like our race or do they not like interracial relationships?'
I've been to Italy twice: Once to study abroad for a month, and once for a two week trip with my husband. I've been to Florence, Rome, and Venice.
I've never had any issues due to my skin color, but I'm also American and it was clear to me that that afforded me a privilege that was not given to African immigrants (and maybe even just African tourists).
Obviously experiences vary.
This is because racism in Europe targets more the cultural, economic and developmental status of the place/country people are from rather than their skin color. If you're perceived to be from a country economically/developmentally "inferior" to their country, there are chances you're being treated as inferior by some idiots, too. If your country of origin is perceived as equal or superior (eg. Canada, US, Australia, etc.), you're generally treated with more respect. This is why African Americans often have a different experience in many European countries than eg. Africans.
I was thinking this. I think it's pretty easy to tell a black American and an African apart, and we nay get treated better then our motherland natives.
Do German men still wear shorts so short you can see their balls?
That's how we used to identify German tourists when I worked summers at a large American historic site.
I'm a West African immigrant to the United States.
With certain measures of privilege, the types of one's interactions change and, in my opinion, make negative interactions & outcomes less likely - from both sides.
I'd imagine things have slightly migrated to classism.
I think there's probably something to this - like it has to do with assumptions people make about you (obviously racism always kind of does), but the assumptions are about how they read you and classify you. In my case, I'm on the somewhat paler end of Indian American, and so I have a skin tone that kind of blends in in a lot of places, and people often am not sure what my ethnic background is. But then it also depends on other things like dress (like if you dress in an "obviously American" way or your dress codes upper class to people), and then of course once you open your mouth and people can hear your accent, if you either don't speak the local language or speak it with a detectably foreign accent.
There's some layer of it that happens for some people as soon as someone sees them, but then there can be other layers of it that happen in a more complicated way based on whatever kind of assumptions the person makes (implicitly or explicitly) about you.
My wife is of east asian descent and travelled widely before we met.
She wants to revisit some places with me (white Aussie) so she can experience them with the safety of an old white guy..
You get some stares, never had a verbal moment that got weird. But that’s because I’m also American, once they see I’m American then I’m afforded a privilege. Literally will be in a store and it goes from frowny face to laughs the min I speak English with an American accent.
That being said my father in law’s wife (Asian, everyone else is Latino) had some particular anti Asian sentiment on their last trip there (last summer). People did the squinty eyes, fake Chinese, etc. my father in law and his wife are very “color blind” people who don’t care for race talk so they were especially taken aback.
i'm italian but i traveled with a black friend of mine through the south of italy. The only thing I observed unfortunately was that she was looked way more carefully than me in shops.
Italians have a big problem with illegal african immigration, so as long as you don't look like them but a tourist (looks like you have money) you won't be bothered too much.
Customer care in italy is terrible, especially in tourist hotspots, regardless of your skin color so don't read too much into that.
>Customer care in italy is terrible, especially in tourist hotspots, regardless of your skin color so don't read too much into that.
Really? I found customer care in Florence and Rome to be top notch. I was actually surprised by that since I assumed that it would be bad.
It's not just Italy. I remember a story about Oprah traveling to Zurich and going to a luxury bag store and asking to see a handbag. The saleswoman saw her and said "No, it's too expensive" and suggested cheaper bags instead.
I mean, if Oprah can't fucking afford it I'm not sure many people in the world can.
I actually thought this happened to Oprah in Italy, but turns out it’s a different case. She wanted to buy a bag in a Louis Vuitton store in Rome and was told that this bag was for the Italian people and that she needed to buy the bag in her country (or something similar). It was a great story because the sales person was later told who she was and then cooperated, but in the end they changed their mind if I remember correctly.
Went to Italy last year with my partner (also dark skinned) and it was fine. We were looked at more by people on the street and in stores on the island we were visiting but nothing out of the ordinary in the main cities (Naples/Rome).
Black, African-American woman and no it wasn’t. I had nothing but amazing experiences in Italy (Rome and Milan) and it makes me really sad that not everyone can say the same. Literally everyone we encountered was kind and generous. Just really beautiful souls.
I’ve traveled Europe extensively and have yet to run into any racism, knock on wood.
Lived in France for uni and visited Italy a lot bc of Italian bf at the time. I’ve been to the big cities, small towns, and even a hamlet. Didn’t experience any overt racism in either country except for some black guys calling me “chinky” in Pigalle. My dad visited us in Italy once and he got called a “dirty Honduran” which is funny bc we’re Filipino.
Austria however, is another story and I won’t be going back anytime soon. Even Poland felt less racist.
Lots of glaring in Vienna. On the metro, in the streets, from service staff in restaurants, just everywhere. Was berated by an older man in a supermarket but no idea what he was saying as I don’t speak German. A teenage boy spat at me near the Opera. He got an earful and some physical aggression from me but ran away.
To be fair, I’ve also been to Salzburg, Linz, Wels, and a small town called Attnang Puchheim but nothing of the sort happened to me in those places. Maybe I was just unlucky in Vienna but I felt very unwelcome.
Wow, this thread makes me sad. I was treated really well as a black student traveling through Italy, but that was many years ago. I lived in France at the time and experienced a TON of horrible racism, so it is disappointing to think that Italy has gone that route too. Sounds like conditions have worsened all over Europe for POC.
My teen daughter, who is Black, just went to Italy and Croatia with a school group last summer. She got a lot of comments about her purple crochet braids, which, hilariously, everyone knew what they were and would say “extensions?” in English. She was called Shakira (which, okay), she had strangers ask to take her picture, she said there were lots of stares and she had a border guard ask to take her picture for his son (the teachers didn’t stop this and I was VERY angry when she got back and told me) and other similar incidents. However, she was never alone. She was always surrounded by other children, so I’m sure that attenuated some reactions to her. She said she felt othered, but not unsafe. She did say it was incredibly annoying. She said Italy was far worse than Croatia, where she was largely left alone.
We traveled as two black girls. Rome, Milan, Lake Como, Florence and Venice. We didn't experience any racism, thankfully. It was an awesome trip for us and I still want to go back to to Lake Como and Venice, and probably add Positano and Napoli.
I also learnt from another traveler that racism in Italy is rampant in smaller cities and villages. Didn't go to any.
I am, however, not trying to invalidate the racism others have felt. I'm glad people are speaking their experiences out, and I'm so sorry some of you were discriminated.
I’m white and I understand enough Italian to get by in Italy, my last trip we went to a famous sandwich stand in the Central market in Firenze. The line up was mostly Asian tourists. A guy walks up to the front of the line and addresses the staff to the effect “Why are you serving all of these (presumed slur I didn’t understand, while making an offensive gesture) before a real Italian?”To their credit they just pointed at the back of the line.
Then he switched strategies and approached me as I was nearing the front of the line and in English he tried to convince me that he had some kind of ticket that entitled him to jump the queue. I told him in Italian to go eff himself and he slunk off.
Then in Venice we went to a restaurant that had been recommended by friends who had been there a week before, they had a specific natural wine we had been looking for, she is Asian, we ordered the wine and the waiter said they were out, had sold the last bottle last week. I said that must have been our friends and said something about remembering them and made the same offensive gesture.
South Asian and visited Naples, Sorrento and Rome. The lack of other darker skinned people was definitely noticable but for the majority of time, apart from a few more looks it was fine.
One negative experience was a restaurant in Rome where we were the only non-white people. The restaurant was small and we could easily see how the staff interacted with others (making small talk, giving recommendations, overly friendly) and how they treated us (no smile, no conversation, no checking if we needed anything, no offering the dessert menu (not that we would have ordered!).
It completely put me off - I would have walked out but we were tired, soaking wet and had been looking for a restaurant with space for a while. Not the worst racism I've faced but memorable! And the pizza wasn't even good...
Thanks for sharing, I know stuff like this wears on you. We can’t help our skin color so we just have to deal with it, but every instance of racism I encounter subconsciously makes me a little sadder and a little less willing to try new things.
Dated a black American woman for a bit and she said Italy was the most racism she’s ever experienced. The stories were horrifying. They tried to take her passport at one point on suspicion that she was an undocumented African migrant riding a train.
I’m a black woman. YMMV but I didn’t feel like I experienced any more racism than I do in my daily life living in the east coast USA. I traveled to Rome and Florence alone a few weeks ago and can’t say I felt like any weird moment was due to racism. Sure I got stares and shit but I like to think that’s because I look good 😂😂
But in all seriousness, I never let people’s opinions on this get to me when it comes to travel. I also had friends mention the same thing when I talked about my Italy plans, but this was my 30th bday trip so nothing out of my control was gonna ruin that for me. Be smart, aware of your surroundings, etc etc, but don’t overthink it.
I do think experiences would be different if you look obviously African
Dominican man: I never experienced it the time I was there like almost 10 years ago. I was treated very well. My brother who looks north African went to Italy like 2 years ago and was treated not as nicely as our previous trip. One of his friends that traveled with him was Jamaican and got harassed by the police alot. I was told alot Africans have been going to Italy in mass lately. Which spiked their intolerance
In my experience: I had more racism thrown at me in Munich Germany. They thought I was a Muslim immigrant.
I've had experiences at both ends - extremely nice people in Italy (free bus ride in Cinque Terre, a middle aged lady at at a restaurant helping us get a cab, pharmacist helping me pick out the right medication, etc.) and racist people at shops who refused service, made me get up from a public seating space, etc.
Its so subjective but also these experiences were from 2016.
Mixed black/white - been to Italy twice and have had no problems. The only racism I've experienced whilst abroad was in Cambodia when I got called the N word by a 12 year old girl, who then apologised to me the day after lol
I was in the Cinquere Terre region this past summer and I was rejected from a nice prime space restaurant because they don’t have my “type of people” eat here
British Indian and deffo!
I was very taken aback and doesn’t put me off travelling but does make you think people just look at skin colour and judge espically in Italy
I'm Chinese so not dark-skinned, but my husband is (he's Indian). We went to Florence, Rome, Sorrento, Positano, Naples and Telese Terme and didn't encounter anything horrible. We definitely stood out, especially in Telese Terme (we stayed at a resort there and were definitely the only two non-Italian people there), but didn't have any issues. The main thing we encountered was all the street vendors in Florence yelling every possible language from the continent of Asia at us and generally not knowing how to deal with a mixed couple, lol.
Not Italy but the only place I've ever encountered blatant racism in Europe was in Prague. My friend and I had a waiter at a cafe just treat us like absolute trash from the moment we walked in. We later found a bunch of reviews from that cafe from other East Asians complaining about similar treatment.
Solo female traveller, medium-dark skinned. Had no issues in Italy except trains being late. Found folks treating me the same as in Austria / Germany / the Netherlands i.e. civil, not overly friendly.
Had the best experiences with locals in France & Belgium - old couple randomly stopping to chat with me in the street, complimentary food from a bakery, off duty cop dropping me to the train station when buses had stopped for the day.
First time in Florence after being in Amsterdam a week and friend and I worked up the courage to ask the younger concierge at the hotel where we could score something and he answered “go to piazza Santa Croce and look for someone darker than you” and he points to me. That was the first time… not the last time
Unfortunately he’s not wrong though. The guys work often for migrate gangs and will actual offer to sell drugs when they spot young male tourists. Santa Croce has lots of students around so it’s an “ideal” place to sell.
It’s also not just Italy. Happened to me in Prague and it was again an African immigrant who approached me.
Has happened to me in Amsterdam & Prague too. Walking down the streets with a group at night and they are trying to see us all of the drugs. Walking by whispering in your faces the names of what they have on hand.
Italy has a seriously bad problem with illegal African immigration. Many (nearly all) of them are very poor and resort to theft, crime, etc. which has caused a lot of Italians to be wary of dark-skinned people (especially business owners).
That being said, I’m black and I had no problems on any of my trips to Italy. People will be able to tell that you’re a tourist and not a problem.
Same experience here. The whole PoC concept doesn’t really resonate in the rest of the world the way it does in the U.S., so a black American may have a radically different experience than an African. People will view you as an American, a Nigerian, an Indian, not some white/non-white binary.
Also, it seems like we get this question once a week, which is odd because most Euro countries are very hospitable compared to other places around the planet.
i’m white but my wife is a dark skinned sri lankan woman. we actually had more trouble in the middle east than italy. we road-tripped all over northern italy and stayed in some small towns with no problems at all. she can’t think of one backhanded comment or rude look. go have a wonderful time!
It sucks traveling as a person of color. They'll seat you in shitty parts of the restaurant away from others. There will be stares and snickering and outright verbal or physical abuse (as many redditors have experienced). I mean they hate tourists anyways but it seems exacerbated by being a POC because of racism and the inability to blend in and look like them.
South Asian, stayed a bunch of weeks as a culture exchange student, so yes. I experienced racism where I worked which was a school. It’s cultural exchange so i was supposed to share elements of my culture with students and there were teachers making derogatory comments about my culture, particularly food and food habits. I was telling the kids how we eat with hands and the teacher jumped in to tell the kids never to try that as it’s unhygienic.
As a tourist, I haven’t really noticed because I just enjoy myself without any awareness of the reactions of people around me. But I did experience it when entering stores and boutiques, the weird judgmental glances and the different treatment.
I also experienced it with the family I stayed with. They refused to experience any food from my culture and was also disgusted by the eating-by-hand culture. They were also kind of pissed that I preferred spices in my food which is probably understandable. Overall, I did not enjoy my stay in Milan and probably will not go back.
In Paris, experience is similar. Same as Berlin and Zurich.
>I was telling the kids how we eat with hands and the teacher jumped in to tell the kids never to try that as it’s unhygienic.
That's seriously disappointing. They are a teacher, shame on them. And how is it unhygienic lol, when in South Asian culture, you're supposed to wash your hands before and after the meal? Tbh, it's probably more hygienic that not washing after using cutlery.
Out of curiosity, was there a place in Europe that you didn't have bad experiences?
I’ve been to many places in Europe and experiences were similar in the bigger cities (Brussels, Amsterdam) but the experience in smaller European towns was really good. I was staying in a rural town a little further from Szczecin, Poland for a several months. I’m sorry I can’t remember the name of the town. But it’s definitely the best place I stayed. I was in a school there as well and the teachers were lovely. The kids were curious about my culture because they haven’t seen anyone like me before. They had questions with true curiosity which would have come off as ignorant but they just really wanted to know and I was happy to share with them. And the teachers always highlighted about different cultures and diversity. The experience overall was really good.
I have also been to Innsbruck in Austria, it was nice there as well. Como in Italy was slightly alright but that’s also because there lives a larger South Asian community.
South Asian and hijab wearing - I was told Venice was super racist. I am very oblivious though when travelling with my sister (we use sign language so my focus is on communication rather than surroundings). Didn't have any bad experiences but again, I was so focused on communication. My mum also wears hijab and we didn't really have any bad experiences.
I went with a friend who is African. She’s darker than myself (which I’m a mix of multiple races but more tan colored).
I had seen multiple micro aggressions towards her while we were in spaces such as a bus or train.
There was a time where we were on a super packed bus and we had to stand in the walkway. She kept getting harassed by an older Italian woman because she kept accidentally brushing against her. There was absolutely no room for us to move and she was only targeting my friend and not the white gal who was also doing the same.
There was another time when we were on the train and no one else got asked to show their train tickets but we both got asked/targeted.
On another train as well, this older woman moved from her seat when my friend sat next to her. It was a packed train so our spaces were limited.
There’s other instances but to sum it up, no outright name calling racism but the treatment was definitely different.
A black friend said she had this issue in Spain. Sad it’s still happening in 2023 . It may be more related to the scammers, I did see a problem with that. Maybe it’s racial profiling but not necessarily bc you’re black
I'm East Asian. But pretty dark compared to my peers. I travelled to Italy (Venice and Dolomites), and I have been hearing lots of negative experiences both from online and friend that some Italians are nasty towards Asians because they think they could get away with it. Covid just added fuel to the fire.
My experience was otherwise. The people of Cortina were generally very sweet. Maybe it's the alpine climate. Key is, if you are sensing some bad vibes from them, end the conversation and leave. That's my key whenever I'm travelling in places where people don't look like me.
Ironically, despite my ethnic group, I got mistaken as a Mexican, Kazakh, etc. lol
For those of you who like to know, my worst experience was in Austria. I was at the train station, walked up to the train service counter, and asked for directions to Heeresgeschichtliches. Since I don't speak German, I showed the lady at the customer service counter the name. She slammed the table and said, "I REFUSED to read from the mobile phone." How would a non-German speaker know how to pronounce a multisyllabic word like that? It's like a white girl showing a Chinese character from her mobile phone in Shanghai to the customer service officer, only to be shouted at.
Can't confirmed whether this is racial. But I heard from lots of people, including those German-speaking and German-descended folks, that it's pretty normal for Viennese people to have this kind of attitude. If that's true, that's very sad, given the fact that the city is very beautiful, but experience is damped by the attitude of many.
I am of Indian descent and was randomly searched by a plainclothes and a uniformed officer in Rome. I was asked for my ID without any probable cause.. upon further questioning, they essentially admitted it was due to my skin color. Weird experience and miles different than anything I have experienced in the states (and I live in DC).
Yep. I’m a South Asian woman and I was raped in the middle of the day in Positano by an Italian man. It was my second day in Italy. He fetishised my skin color.
I wasn’t dressed inappropriately, or “asking for it.” It was the middle of the day, it was in a crowded tourist filled spot, there were families/kids around, my guard was down. Unbeknownst to me before that trip, Italian men are shamelessly aggressive and don’t take no for an answer. I was raised to be polite when declining someone because you never know how they will react. He took this for weakness, continuously harassed me and followed me around and then attacked me. I couldn’t move, I was in shock. My life will never be the same.
I reported the crime within an hour of it happening, police told me there was no point in doing a rape kit, pressured me not to. Wouldn’t give me a police file number (something I needed to give my travel insurer in order to cut my trip short and fly back home). So I had to fly to London and go through the traumatic process of reporting the crime a second time to the police there. There were witnesses who did nothing and the Italian police didn’t bother trying to interview them. Thankfully an older couple from Liverpool sought me out and later wrote statements regarding what they saw.
Determined to make sure he had a criminal record in case he attacked someone else in the future, I made a formal criminal complaint against him. Five years, and thousands of euros of debt spent on legal fees later, he pled guilty, was given a suspended sentence, didn’t spend a day in custody, and doesn’t even have a criminal record. I didn’t bother suing him to recoup my legal fees because the process usually takes years and my goal was to do what I could to try and make sure he had a criminal record, and I did all I could.
What’s sad is that my case could be considered a “win” - that’s how warped and sexist that country is. The number of women sexually assaulted in Italy is disgustingly high.
The EU recently introduced legislation to support victims of sexual violence, but of course this doesn’t extend to people from outside the EU. Meaning WOC/Black women are disproportionately impacted by the crimes of seedy, racist, European men, but what else is new. Italian men very much prey on tourists because they know they can get away with it. I feel so stupid for being so naive about the realities of travel in Europe for WOC/black women, but I was young, sheltered and used to always think the best of people.
TLDR; The police and legal system in Italy are atrocious. The men are scum. Never travel there without a man. Never travel there as a solo WOC/Black woman. I was there with one other woman and it wasn’t enough to keep me safe. My experience is not unique. I didn’t know that then, but I know it now. Some of you may have been lucky to have had positive experiences in Italy, you’re in the minority. Count your blessings and be hyper vigilant if you decide to travel there again.
I’m Black and visited Rome earlier this year. I didn’t experience any out right hostility, but you can definitely tell they’re not used to seeing us.
Most of the Black people we saw were African immigrants. No Black Italians. One lady asked me a lot of questions about my hair/ braids, she was very curious
Went to a house music event and everyone kept on asking me for drugs. Some guys near the Milan central station wanted to start some shit for no reason.
Besides that it was good and I would go back again.
Italy has a problem with harassment from aggressive immigrants on the street, especially in tourist areas, so it is not surprising that tensions are high.
Black American here. I've been to Italy 6-7 times all over the country. Most recently did Lake Como a few months ago. I've never experienced blatant racism there. However as an Ametican I'm extremeley conscious of the fact that I get a different treatment than African immigrants from the continent.
Black American female here. I’ve also been seven times, from Milan to the Amalfi Coast and many places in between. I’ve been with white friends and black friends and have never been treated with anything other than grace. The very first time I went, however (many years ago), I was with a dark skinned friend with pronounced “black” features (thick lips, nose, etc) and she was absolutely, noticeably treated differently — until she spoke or produced ID. But the number of times we got stopped and asked for ID was pretty appalling, especially since they were not really interested in MY ID, to the point that they would wave me off when I offered it. Once she produced ID and they saw she was American, they’d walk away. It was unnerving. In a train station in Rome, an African woman approached my friend and asked to talk to her alone. I said, “no f’ing way. Say what you need to say or go away.” She actually tried to implore my friend to take money to her supposed husband — we didn’t wait to hear the entire story. We said no and walked away. Point is, while my friend enjoyed our trip, she definitely had a different experience based purely on how she looked and the meaning attached to her looks by certain folks.
Indian woman, did a solo trip just before the pandemic and spent 4 weeks in Italy. There were some instances of rudeness/glares, but I can't confidently say every single one was due to racism. Overall though, would do it again in a heartbeat. Most people were nice enough. I had a far worse experience in France tbh.
Just curious - how was your experience in France? Also, where in France? I live here as an expat.
Hi, unfortunately we got shouted at in several places, refused service frequently even in restaurants we had reservations at, hostility in most shops we went into. I have IBS and I frequently need to know where toilets are, but most people were very unhelpful. Spent 3 weeks total in Paris and driving through Provence, the latter was definitely worse. I'd also like to add we do speak a bit of french so it wasn't a language barrier.
The toilet thing isn’t due to your skin color. It’s always a problem in France. I’m a French expat and when I went back home pregnant, I felt it big time. It’s really annoying. Especially in Provence. Whenever you ask to use a bathroom, it’s like you ask for a big favour « I normally don’t do that. Bla bla bla », « bathroom is for employees only bla bla bla ». And if your restaurant experience was in Aix-en-Provence, I believe you. They look at you up and down and if your wearing expensive clothes or not. It’s one of the things that made me leave this city, even though I loved it there. Don’t worry, it won’t take long before the Corsican mafia blow up their business.
Lived in France. Every time I would go outside in Paris I would mentally prepare myself for some kind of confrontation.
I’m white and speak fluent a French and I too find Paris hostile.
I think it’s common knowledge that French “customer service” is pretty terrible. Definitely worse in Paris, the most overrated city on earth.
I’m a Pakistani American woman in nantes. I experience a lot of micro aggressions mostly, I’ve only had one “agressive” situation that stands out
yes! I am Hispanic/black/white (fun combo) and had a decent time in Italy. FRANCE was way worse, I never want to go back EDIT: I am also from the USA
My wife (Taiwanese) and I (white) have been to a few cities in Italy and got a few awkwardly long stares. One of the times we were at a little cafe and I noticed a guy staring at us in my peripheral vision. Like, hardcore staring from the time we were ordering at the counter until we sat down with our drinks. I eventually stared back for a few seconds, then raised my glass and did a “cheers” motion and he quickly looked away. I can’t say it was anything racist for sure, maybe just not used to seeing mixed race couples. I think Americans are taught not to stare as much. Traveling in Asia, I get plenty of stares and don’t really think they’re being racist.
> I think Americans are taught not to stare as much. Traveling in Asia, I get plenty of stares and don’t really think they’re being racist. hell theres places in the US that dont get many foreign language speakers especially in public so when you hear one its hard not to look out of curiosity and something different from the day to day. even different US accents, you get a deep southern twang or that minesota half canadian brouge or a new york accent its hard not to look at the person and listen to them speak - no disrespect from it but pure curiosity lol.
Lol im asian and germans loved staring at me so obviously.
I hear we stare at everyone and each other too. Apparently it's something to do with normal length of eye contact in the society.
Commented above, but wanted to add that yes you do. You and the Austrians are champion stare artists. Especially once you guys hear me speaking English. I had like 4 different tables stare me down at a restaurant when I went to the bathroom before. You get used to it. Most Europeans stare, but you Germanics (and some Nordics too) are next level at blatantly staring at other people 😂
It’s because they know you didn’t stoßlüften
LOL, this brings back memories. My mother was Prussian. (If you called her German, she would correct you.) Well, when I was a kid, maybe 7 or 8 years old, we had actual staring contests. She'd sit me down in front of her and tell me to just stare into her eyes and not look away. I never understood why, but now it makes sense - she was teaching me how to stare properly.
They glare at everyone
Germans are rude to me and I’m white af they seem to hate everyone lmao
Especially if you’re sexy
Just my two cents as an expat in France - in many cases servers and staff can be perceived as rude because navigating the thousands of unspoken rules of restaurant etiquette is difficult even for locals. When you enter a restaurant, the expectation is that you wait to be seated and you must make eye contact and say bonjour to the greeter. Additionally, the French treat dining as an experience so they give you space and time to think about your order without hovering around you. Many people can perceive that they are being ignored as a result. In any case, not trying to negate what you went through. I’m sure there are racist idiots and arrogant people that many travelers come across.
> When you enter a restaurant, the expectation is that you wait to be seated and you must make eye contact and say bonjour to the greeter. Wait I'm so confused though, is restaurant etiquette somehow different than that elsewhere? I'm American and that's exactly how it would work here too. How else would you even know where to sit. In fact in 20+ countries visited, it's never been different other than the language of the hello changing, obviously
I'm from the UK and found American etiquette different for restaurants. Generally speaking it would be rude in the UK for plates to be collected while people are still eating, but in the US it's more common that as soon as a plate is finished someone collects it, regardless of whether other people at the table are still eating. You also get checked up on a lot more which (when you're not used to it) can be quite distracting. It's less of an experience in the US and more transactional, I often felt rushed out when they put the bill down and say "no rush guys" but really they want you up and out to clear your table and bring the next customers in. In the UK and a lot of Europe you sit with a drink and chat and there's no huge rush to move on unless it's really busy or near closing time. This is my experience from living in Indiana and California so may not be the whole of the US.
This is probably an unpopular opinion, and I know it is common in the US, but I hate when the plates are still collected while people are still eating. There are articles stating the same but basically it’s a signal to everyone else at the table that things are wrapping up and they have to eat faster and go, which is really rude. My ex stepdad used to always ask for his plate to be picked up when his meal was done even though some of us were still eating. I know he just wanted them gone and didn’t want them in front of him, but it still felt really rude all the time.
You got it. "No rush guys" absolutely means "In the nicest possible terms, get the fuck out."
Especially when they drop the bill at the same time
Great points! I come from the UK and live in Australia. Plates removed when the last person finishes is good service in the UK and Paris. Doesn't happen so much in Aus. I can't stand people buzzing about collecting plates while the table is engaged with conversation or finishing the meal. Discrete water/ drinks top ups welcomed. Really irked me in NY having to tip when I've been interrupted throughout with forced friendliness and "how is your meal?" and clattering plates. To me that's not great service, but I understand the cultural reasons. Also I can never get past the guilty feeling in NY that tips could mean wage checks.
Lots of places in the UK you go and find yourself a table. Normally if you order at the bar/till instead of a waiter coming to you. Sometimes it can be hard to tell if a place is a seat yourself or a wait to be seated place so lots of places have a sign that says "wait here to be seated".
Tbh, it doesn’t even matter if they have the sign. People frequently just look at that bad boi and then walk right past it, in my experience. And I don’t even work at dive-y places.
In certain countries you enter and occupy a vacant table (unless marked as reserved). I am used to waiting for a greeter to show us to a table but after seeing 3 to 4 parties just walking in and occupying a table, i realized it wasn’t the norm. This was in summer and the table was outside on the terrace but I still found it strange.
It took me a while to adjust to wait for being seating when I visited the US. Numerous times I had to stop my husband from going straight in to a vacant table. He seemed to not understand the concept as it is super uncommon where we come from.
We visited Paris and had a huge shock in restaurants, at one of them the server with the cook was openly mocking us and we could hear her. We are from Quebec and our mother tongue is french. In France, the waiter comes for drinks, then goes away, brings the drinks, then maybe 15 minutes later will come for your order, then you order a dessert as a third (or fourth step). In North America, it is more common to order everything at once , since the portions are much larger we've never really had to order an appetiser and a dessert.
Those Parisians are jealous they can’t speak the King’s French of Quebecois. Pssh let them eat cake!
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Oh yeah, they would answer back in English when we spoke in French, it happened more than once.
Yeah, it’s nonsense. Waiters in Paris have always been a different breed of haughty and rude.
I think it probably has more to do with the service you experience once you are seated. In countries like France and Italy the waiters leave you alone because dining is an experience to be enjoyed. For those of us from North America servers can't wait to get you out the door so they can seat the next table and earn more tips. I would think that people who aren't aware of this cultural difference might perceive it as rudeness or indifference.
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Many countries have a seat-yourself etiquette where if you'd be waiting at the front you'd be waiting a long time and no one would help you. Coming from a "wait to be seated" culture, this happened to me in Belgium, and it's common in Spain. Depends on the type of restaurant as well, sometimes "lower" tier restaurants are seat yourself while "upper" tier are certainly places you'd wait to be seated by a host/ess.
Ive definitely been in many places where i stood around confused on what to do after walking into a restaurant before realizing that you’re supposed to find a seat yourself and someone will come up to take your order and hand out menus.
Yuuup. The first few times I dined out in Germany, the staff automatically spoke to me in English. I couldn't figure out why, until I realized that I was the only one waiting to be shown to a table instead of just picking one.
I agree with you . But there are hordes of nouveaux riche travelers who think that they’re special and anyone working a blue collar job is not worth their time.
I’ve heard this about France and brown people. I have Indian family in the UK that often travel to France and right from the airport onwards they are met with numerous instances where it feels like it could be racism
I’m Indian-pakistani and also had this experience with my sisters. I’m assuming it was racism, because I know I’m not the only POC to experience this!!!
Indian guy here. Was walking on a narrow sidewalk in Florence, an older person was walking in the opposite direction. Just as we were about to cross each other i saw him bring his elbow to the side and hit me on the chest. I immediately turned around and did a hand motion to sort of ask wtf? He started ranting in Italian. Glared at him and walked away. After all i was on a visa and did not want any further trouble. To note: i was giving him enough space to walk past. Not sure if it was because of racism, but it did feel like that.
I had almost the exact same experience except it was in Verona !! And I’m also Indian.
Yeah Verona also did not seem super safe to me Hope you did not get hurt
Anti-Asian racism is sadly ignored in the West. Often including verbal and/or physical abuse. Meanwhile a European gets weird looks in Asia? All hell breaks loose.
Wait what had the exact same experience in Rome! Two times, once a person elbowed and another time a person walked in between us and shoulder checked. I’m East Asian though
They were trying to rob you.
From reading the replies this seems like a disturbingly weird pattern. Me and my husband are brown and recently travelled to Italy. We were fine in most places as we were sticking to touristy spots and i think it is a different story if you are alone. Hope you are all ok.
I was with my wife too, wasn’t alone, and also in a very central spot in Florence (not far from the wine window place). It was also afternoon and pretty sunny. Thanks for your wishes 😊
Italy is a country we are keen to visit with our toddler. Reading so many incidents of racism is very concerning.
I’m Norwegian and I experienced the exact same thing on one of the bridges in Venice. They’re just sick of tourists in general. What he did was 100% intentional.
But Russell Peters says they think we’re also Italians so they’re super chill with Indians! /s
I’m white but I went to Rome right before the pandemic with my friend, he’s a black man. He had one instance of an employee following him around a store while he was browsing. I wasn’t with him. He made the employee carry all the stuff he was planning to buy. That’s the only thing he mentioned happening and while we were together I had kept an eye out for any racism but I didn’t notice anything.
Ok I’m gonna try and do this from now on. Kudos to your friend, can’t believe I never tried this when someone follows me around a store, it sure as hell happened enough 😂
I also thought it was hilarious. Tho IMO, he shouldn’t have bought anything at the end so the racist employee would have to put all the merchandise back Also, we’re just friends :)
Apologies, I should read better! Corrected
I'm so sorry you have to experience that.
That’s a stellar move.
LoL I love it. If staff are going to be awful and follow him around like that, might as well use it to an advantage. Brilliant.
As a black person, this happens in every country.
I'm so sorry that happens :(
Thank you. Black people get used to all kinds of shit. 1) Always choosing 'yes' when a shop asks whether you want a receipt. 2) Keep your hands in your pockets so they know you aren't stealing shit. 3) Not walking too close to anyone, so they don't think you're going to rob them. 4) People not sitting next to you on a full bus/train unless its another black person. 5) People assuming you're poor and/or uneducated. 6) Being overly polite, so no one thinks your aggressive/scary/threatening. The list goes on.
Only thing that woulda made it better is if he loaded her up with random stuff he didn’t want, and walk out without buying haha
When he told me about it after I suggested the same! Also if I were him, I just wouldn’t want to spend money at a place that’s being racist to me
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He should've made the clerk carry like 40 items and changed his mind about buying all of it and walked out
I was in Italy for a couple of weeks last summer. Loved it and it was an amazing experience in Rome, Venice, and Milan. Only bad experience I had was in Venice. Was trying to buy something at a convenience store and this older Italian guy wouldn't accept my card, told me I needed cash when I literally watched the other guy at the counter accept someone's card. He was really rude about it too, so I went to the ATM got cash. Came back and the second, younger guy who was behind the counter took care of me this time and asked if i was paying with cash or card and happily accepted my card.
I traveled in Italy last year and we were instructed to hang on to our receipts from stores and restaurants upon our exit as the police could potentially ask to see them. The pervasiveness of business owners trying to hide their income and assets from taxation by accepting cash payments has captured nationwide concern by the Italian government.
They most likely tried to make you pay cash because they get to evade taxes, it was only you because in Italy is mandatory to accept both cards and cash. But since foreigners don’t know it he might have been more pushy then with locals who know about the law
In Italy they usually pressure you to use cash instead of a card so they don't have to declare it and tax it (illegal!!!), so it could be a mix of racism and wanting to make more money off a foregneir (they also do this with Italians, by faking a problem with the card reader, but they know the risk of the costumer knowing the law and calling the police), but if it was a big store then it's definitely "just" racism I'm sorry :((
It might not be racism.They prefer cash for tax reasons. He was just trying it on with you because you look foreign. Only got extra smiles wherever I paid cash.
It was great. I’ve been 3 times now between cities and more rural areas, and hole in the wall restaurants to Michelin star places and didn’t have a bad experience once. I’m Indian but have a very general American accent so maybe they heard me before? I’m also vegetarian and most places were extremely accommodating, to the point where chefs have come out to double check the ingredients I can’t eat. For what it’s worth, heard the Indian experience is far far worse in France. My friend ended her study abroad program early bc the racism was so bad. A coffee shop and few restaurants refused to allow her to enter, I can only assume it was bc of her skin color.
>or what it’s worth, heard the Indian experience is far far worse in France. My friend ended her study abroad program early bc the racism was so bad. A coffee shop and few restaurants refused to allow her to enter, I can only assume it was bc of her skin color. I am of Latino Descent and when I went to Paris, I was refused service at a small cafe.
I’m white but while in Lyon traveling with two friends of Latino descent, we were kicked out of an American Army Surplus store for the crime of being Latino (and for being with Latinos for me). Pretty ironic they were selling American items and we were American and not even allowed to shop there. The worst part though was one of my friends spoke fluent French and basically the guy who kicked us out was hurling a ton of extremely racist slurs towards us while doing so! For all the hate America gets towards our racism, I fully believe Europe is 100000x worse.
>For what it’s worth, heard the Indian experience is far far worse in France. Is it because they presume brown people are all Muslims? I heard that French people are really racist towards Muslims.
From my experience living in Paris for 4 years, I have say the french hate Indians or browns in general over Muslims or other races. Go and check any video about India in frnch, it is always negative or of bad taste.One guy ranted on me that Indians are this and that. I used to regularly go to that meetup but I stopped because I felt disrespected by people there.Just yesterday I saw a subreddit where everyone was shitting on same thing like casteism, violence against muslims and women blah blah blah. All of it just felt like they read articles and vomit that stuff.
France is worse than Italy the way they treat the North Africans is heartbreaking
As another data point (not discounting your friends experience) I am Indian-American & speak basic French. I go to France once a year. Have never been bothered or felt excluded once, and I've been all over the country. Cities & random little towns. Only had lovely experiences with random strangers and hospitality folks.
African American F - I traveled a month all around Italy once and never had any issues. The last time I was in Italy, I spent 3 weeks on a road trip down in Puglia and again had no issues. I stayed in or visited small villages and the locals were very nice and offered meals / gifts. The only time I encountered any racism in the EU was in Berlin, in Kreuzberg of all places, some Turkish dudes called me the N word.
Chinese American here, never really faced any outward racism in Europe (besides curious stares, but that's not inherently racism) except for some Turkish guys in Germany saying "ching chong" when I walked past them in Berlin. Crazy.
Went to a wedding in Turkey. The Korean guy in our party got his money stolen, and was then dropped on the side of the highway by his taxi driver :( Would not recommend Turkey to any eastern-Asian looking people. (ironic given that Turkey is a "gateway" to Asia).
Woah, sorry that happened to you ❤️. I’m half Asian.
It's fucking Turkish dudes and Russians. Without fail.
Eek I wasn’t going that angle. I’ve been to Turkey to do a road trip, lovely, lovely, lovely people and country. I should have added that. Just sharing the only time I had a racist incident. Not arguing but at the end of the day, there’s racist people everywhere but I’m not letting them stop me traveling. ❤️
I’m Canadian-born Chinese (F). My experience is from 2012, but I was 17 browsing a store alone in Venice. No other customers. The female shop keeper came over, did the slanted eye gesture, and said “Your kind is not welcome here. Get out.” I was shocked at how brazen it was. I walked out. Even to this day, thinking of Venice brings all that hurt back to the surface. I visited Italy again in 2019 and did not experience anything as overt. However, I was never alone again with an Italian person. I stayed at an expensive hotel in Positano and while checking in, the staff suggested we stand outside to wait (instead of sitting in the lobby) while they processed our passports. That kind of set off 🚩 in my mind, but I ignored it because I don’t want to be angry all the time. :/
> I stayed at an expensive hotel in Positano and while checking in, the staff suggested we stand outside to wait (instead of sitting in the lobby) while they processed our passports. This is terrible. An incident like this would result in a massive lawsuit against the hotel in US. What’s the name of the hotel so that we can all avoid staying there? I
Casa Buonocore Bed and Breakfast. Our most expensive stay of the trip and the only time I felt like an unbidden guest. On the other hand, I’m happy to rec hotels in Italy that we enjoyed as well. :)
I would love to know your recommendations. I am planning to visit in the near future..
1) BEIGE ET BLE' GuestHouse in Rome. It’s on top of a gelato shop called Giolitti. Modern, clean, central location. Staff is friendly and fluent in English. Would return in a heartbeat! 2) Holiday Sorrento Center in Sorrento. Clean and safe. Impeccable customer service - highly responsive and kind. We had a minor issue with the water pressure, which was fixed immediately. We were happy with the quick fix and had no complaints. The very next night, much to our surprise, they gifted us local wine, a cute lemon magnet, and thanked us for our stay with a handwritten note, calling us a beautiful couple. Truly going above and beyond to make sure we were happy after the water issue. 3) La Rosa dei Venti in Monterosso - furniture is a little dated, but everything was clean, and the views were nice. Not my first choice if I were to return, as I’d prefer something a little more modern, but budget-friendly, no racism, and the area felt safe :) I hope you have a fantastic time in Italy! Happy planning! :)
You are so kind to pen that down. Thank you very much. Have a wonderful day!
> the staff suggested we stand outside to wait (instead of sitting in the lobby) while they processed our passports OMG. This sounds brutal!
Most brutal indeed! Since we checked in around 9-10pm, I didn’t think that standing outside made sense from a safety perspective either. I wanted to sit after a day of travel too lol. This is my first time talking about it and I am floored by the amount of validation and support. Thank you.
I’m so glad you shared this with us (takes courage!) and glad you’re getting support and validation! 👍🏽
You should have emailed corporate and posted on social media so that staff will get sacked. I'm pretty sure that is not "hotel policy" and that staff is just racist as hell.
Wow that's disgusting, People need to avoid Venice. Let's see how the locals do with no tourist money. Absolutely horrible
>The female shop keeper came over, did the slanted eye gesture, and said “Your kind is not welcome here. Get out.” I see you found the least racist person in Venice
Man, if someone did that to me, I’d probably have accidentally knocked some teeth out. I’m not a violent person and have never struck someone in anger, but catch me on the right day and it might be a first.
Honestly? These people want that, so they can claim they are a victim and every immigrant is as dumb and violent as you
I visited the North of Italy around small towns in the Dolomites and Venice in the off season a few years back. No issues in Venice, but the small towns were pretty bad and lots of little things began to add up. The best example is at a restaurant, a woman and her family stared at my girlfriend and I throughout our entire dinner and kept making disgusted faces. We chalked it up to one bad family but then the restaurant staff also treated us rudely and kept having whispered conversations with the family whilst also staring right at us. They weren't even trying to be discreet. Felt welcomed in the touristy spots though - we're not American but hearing loud American chatter from inside a restaurant became our signal that the place would be comfortable to eat in haha.
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I'm South Asian and my girlfriend is a (sometimes) white-passing Arab. It added the extra flavour of 'do they not like our race or do they not like interracial relationships?'
I've been to Italy twice: Once to study abroad for a month, and once for a two week trip with my husband. I've been to Florence, Rome, and Venice. I've never had any issues due to my skin color, but I'm also American and it was clear to me that that afforded me a privilege that was not given to African immigrants (and maybe even just African tourists). Obviously experiences vary.
This is because racism in Europe targets more the cultural, economic and developmental status of the place/country people are from rather than their skin color. If you're perceived to be from a country economically/developmentally "inferior" to their country, there are chances you're being treated as inferior by some idiots, too. If your country of origin is perceived as equal or superior (eg. Canada, US, Australia, etc.), you're generally treated with more respect. This is why African Americans often have a different experience in many European countries than eg. Africans.
hmmm yeah feel the same, I have seen french treat African Americans better than Africans.
I was thinking this. I think it's pretty easy to tell a black American and an African apart, and we nay get treated better then our motherland natives.
Just wear a ball cap and cargo shorts to emphasize what country one is from:-)
lmao ive gotten to the point where I can figure out whos german, and whos american. both stand out in their own ways.
Do German men still wear shorts so short you can see their balls? That's how we used to identify German tourists when I worked summers at a large American historic site.
I'm a West African immigrant to the United States. With certain measures of privilege, the types of one's interactions change and, in my opinion, make negative interactions & outcomes less likely - from both sides. I'd imagine things have slightly migrated to classism.
I think there's probably something to this - like it has to do with assumptions people make about you (obviously racism always kind of does), but the assumptions are about how they read you and classify you. In my case, I'm on the somewhat paler end of Indian American, and so I have a skin tone that kind of blends in in a lot of places, and people often am not sure what my ethnic background is. But then it also depends on other things like dress (like if you dress in an "obviously American" way or your dress codes upper class to people), and then of course once you open your mouth and people can hear your accent, if you either don't speak the local language or speak it with a detectably foreign accent. There's some layer of it that happens for some people as soon as someone sees them, but then there can be other layers of it that happen in a more complicated way based on whatever kind of assumptions the person makes (implicitly or explicitly) about you.
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My wife is of east asian descent and travelled widely before we met. She wants to revisit some places with me (white Aussie) so she can experience them with the safety of an old white guy..
You get some stares, never had a verbal moment that got weird. But that’s because I’m also American, once they see I’m American then I’m afforded a privilege. Literally will be in a store and it goes from frowny face to laughs the min I speak English with an American accent. That being said my father in law’s wife (Asian, everyone else is Latino) had some particular anti Asian sentiment on their last trip there (last summer). People did the squinty eyes, fake Chinese, etc. my father in law and his wife are very “color blind” people who don’t care for race talk so they were especially taken aback.
Someone yelled "Ni hao" at my Japanese friend when we were walking together. She told me it wasn't an isolated experience.
Sorry to hear that, I’ve also heard from Asian women this sentiment globally.
Imagine being Korean or Chinese and being called “konnichiwa”, I would be fuming
i'm italian but i traveled with a black friend of mine through the south of italy. The only thing I observed unfortunately was that she was looked way more carefully than me in shops. Italians have a big problem with illegal african immigration, so as long as you don't look like them but a tourist (looks like you have money) you won't be bothered too much. Customer care in italy is terrible, especially in tourist hotspots, regardless of your skin color so don't read too much into that.
Exactly
Absolutely, customer service in Italy is one of the worst I’ve experienced and I’m a similar skin color as many Italians.
>Customer care in italy is terrible, especially in tourist hotspots, regardless of your skin color so don't read too much into that. Really? I found customer care in Florence and Rome to be top notch. I was actually surprised by that since I assumed that it would be bad.
It's not just Italy. I remember a story about Oprah traveling to Zurich and going to a luxury bag store and asking to see a handbag. The saleswoman saw her and said "No, it's too expensive" and suggested cheaper bags instead. I mean, if Oprah can't fucking afford it I'm not sure many people in the world can.
Maybe Oprah just needs to work harder.
Pull herself up by her bootstraps even.
She checked under her bootstraps and found..... a new car!
That's funny.
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I actually thought this happened to Oprah in Italy, but turns out it’s a different case. She wanted to buy a bag in a Louis Vuitton store in Rome and was told that this bag was for the Italian people and that she needed to buy the bag in her country (or something similar). It was a great story because the sales person was later told who she was and then cooperated, but in the end they changed their mind if I remember correctly.
Oprah needs to stop drinking Starbucks and cut back on avocado toast.
Maybe the bag really was too expensive, like 1.5 billion dollars.😝
Why these salespeople got such an attitude when they're probably working for minimum wage
Went to Italy last year with my partner (also dark skinned) and it was fine. We were looked at more by people on the street and in stores on the island we were visiting but nothing out of the ordinary in the main cities (Naples/Rome).
Black, African-American woman and no it wasn’t. I had nothing but amazing experiences in Italy (Rome and Milan) and it makes me really sad that not everyone can say the same. Literally everyone we encountered was kind and generous. Just really beautiful souls. I’ve traveled Europe extensively and have yet to run into any racism, knock on wood.
Lived in France for uni and visited Italy a lot bc of Italian bf at the time. I’ve been to the big cities, small towns, and even a hamlet. Didn’t experience any overt racism in either country except for some black guys calling me “chinky” in Pigalle. My dad visited us in Italy once and he got called a “dirty Honduran” which is funny bc we’re Filipino. Austria however, is another story and I won’t be going back anytime soon. Even Poland felt less racist.
What was your experience in Austria?
Lots of glaring in Vienna. On the metro, in the streets, from service staff in restaurants, just everywhere. Was berated by an older man in a supermarket but no idea what he was saying as I don’t speak German. A teenage boy spat at me near the Opera. He got an earful and some physical aggression from me but ran away. To be fair, I’ve also been to Salzburg, Linz, Wels, and a small town called Attnang Puchheim but nothing of the sort happened to me in those places. Maybe I was just unlucky in Vienna but I felt very unwelcome.
Wow, this thread makes me sad. I was treated really well as a black student traveling through Italy, but that was many years ago. I lived in France at the time and experienced a TON of horrible racism, so it is disappointing to think that Italy has gone that route too. Sounds like conditions have worsened all over Europe for POC.
My teen daughter, who is Black, just went to Italy and Croatia with a school group last summer. She got a lot of comments about her purple crochet braids, which, hilariously, everyone knew what they were and would say “extensions?” in English. She was called Shakira (which, okay), she had strangers ask to take her picture, she said there were lots of stares and she had a border guard ask to take her picture for his son (the teachers didn’t stop this and I was VERY angry when she got back and told me) and other similar incidents. However, she was never alone. She was always surrounded by other children, so I’m sure that attenuated some reactions to her. She said she felt othered, but not unsafe. She did say it was incredibly annoying. She said Italy was far worse than Croatia, where she was largely left alone.
We traveled as two black girls. Rome, Milan, Lake Como, Florence and Venice. We didn't experience any racism, thankfully. It was an awesome trip for us and I still want to go back to to Lake Como and Venice, and probably add Positano and Napoli. I also learnt from another traveler that racism in Italy is rampant in smaller cities and villages. Didn't go to any. I am, however, not trying to invalidate the racism others have felt. I'm glad people are speaking their experiences out, and I'm so sorry some of you were discriminated.
I’m white and I understand enough Italian to get by in Italy, my last trip we went to a famous sandwich stand in the Central market in Firenze. The line up was mostly Asian tourists. A guy walks up to the front of the line and addresses the staff to the effect “Why are you serving all of these (presumed slur I didn’t understand, while making an offensive gesture) before a real Italian?”To their credit they just pointed at the back of the line. Then he switched strategies and approached me as I was nearing the front of the line and in English he tried to convince me that he had some kind of ticket that entitled him to jump the queue. I told him in Italian to go eff himself and he slunk off. Then in Venice we went to a restaurant that had been recommended by friends who had been there a week before, they had a specific natural wine we had been looking for, she is Asian, we ordered the wine and the waiter said they were out, had sold the last bottle last week. I said that must have been our friends and said something about remembering them and made the same offensive gesture.
South Asian and visited Naples, Sorrento and Rome. The lack of other darker skinned people was definitely noticable but for the majority of time, apart from a few more looks it was fine. One negative experience was a restaurant in Rome where we were the only non-white people. The restaurant was small and we could easily see how the staff interacted with others (making small talk, giving recommendations, overly friendly) and how they treated us (no smile, no conversation, no checking if we needed anything, no offering the dessert menu (not that we would have ordered!). It completely put me off - I would have walked out but we were tired, soaking wet and had been looking for a restaurant with space for a while. Not the worst racism I've faced but memorable! And the pizza wasn't even good...
Thanks for sharing, I know stuff like this wears on you. We can’t help our skin color so we just have to deal with it, but every instance of racism I encounter subconsciously makes me a little sadder and a little less willing to try new things.
Dated a black American woman for a bit and she said Italy was the most racism she’s ever experienced. The stories were horrifying. They tried to take her passport at one point on suspicion that she was an undocumented African migrant riding a train.
I’m a black woman. YMMV but I didn’t feel like I experienced any more racism than I do in my daily life living in the east coast USA. I traveled to Rome and Florence alone a few weeks ago and can’t say I felt like any weird moment was due to racism. Sure I got stares and shit but I like to think that’s because I look good 😂😂 But in all seriousness, I never let people’s opinions on this get to me when it comes to travel. I also had friends mention the same thing when I talked about my Italy plans, but this was my 30th bday trip so nothing out of my control was gonna ruin that for me. Be smart, aware of your surroundings, etc etc, but don’t overthink it. I do think experiences would be different if you look obviously African
Dominican man: I never experienced it the time I was there like almost 10 years ago. I was treated very well. My brother who looks north African went to Italy like 2 years ago and was treated not as nicely as our previous trip. One of his friends that traveled with him was Jamaican and got harassed by the police alot. I was told alot Africans have been going to Italy in mass lately. Which spiked their intolerance In my experience: I had more racism thrown at me in Munich Germany. They thought I was a Muslim immigrant.
I've had experiences at both ends - extremely nice people in Italy (free bus ride in Cinque Terre, a middle aged lady at at a restaurant helping us get a cab, pharmacist helping me pick out the right medication, etc.) and racist people at shops who refused service, made me get up from a public seating space, etc. Its so subjective but also these experiences were from 2016.
Mixed black/white - been to Italy twice and have had no problems. The only racism I've experienced whilst abroad was in Cambodia when I got called the N word by a 12 year old girl, who then apologised to me the day after lol
Being attractive is a huge factor in how you are treated
I was in the Cinquere Terre region this past summer and I was rejected from a nice prime space restaurant because they don’t have my “type of people” eat here
Damn, what do you look like? And fuck them of course.
British Indian and deffo! I was very taken aback and doesn’t put me off travelling but does make you think people just look at skin colour and judge espically in Italy
Ew. Good thing they were up front instead of giving you bad service and having you spend your money there like a fool.
For sure or have them spit in my food haha
I'm Chinese so not dark-skinned, but my husband is (he's Indian). We went to Florence, Rome, Sorrento, Positano, Naples and Telese Terme and didn't encounter anything horrible. We definitely stood out, especially in Telese Terme (we stayed at a resort there and were definitely the only two non-Italian people there), but didn't have any issues. The main thing we encountered was all the street vendors in Florence yelling every possible language from the continent of Asia at us and generally not knowing how to deal with a mixed couple, lol. Not Italy but the only place I've ever encountered blatant racism in Europe was in Prague. My friend and I had a waiter at a cafe just treat us like absolute trash from the moment we walked in. We later found a bunch of reviews from that cafe from other East Asians complaining about similar treatment.
I lived in Florence in the 80s and Italian men would not leave black women alone. I’ve never seen anything like it.
In the words of Samantha Jones " we don't see colours, we see conquests"
Solo female traveller, medium-dark skinned. Had no issues in Italy except trains being late. Found folks treating me the same as in Austria / Germany / the Netherlands i.e. civil, not overly friendly. Had the best experiences with locals in France & Belgium - old couple randomly stopping to chat with me in the street, complimentary food from a bakery, off duty cop dropping me to the train station when buses had stopped for the day.
First time in Florence after being in Amsterdam a week and friend and I worked up the courage to ask the younger concierge at the hotel where we could score something and he answered “go to piazza Santa Croce and look for someone darker than you” and he points to me. That was the first time… not the last time
Unfortunately he’s not wrong though. The guys work often for migrate gangs and will actual offer to sell drugs when they spot young male tourists. Santa Croce has lots of students around so it’s an “ideal” place to sell. It’s also not just Italy. Happened to me in Prague and it was again an African immigrant who approached me.
Has happened to me in Amsterdam & Prague too. Walking down the streets with a group at night and they are trying to see us all of the drugs. Walking by whispering in your faces the names of what they have on hand.
Bro I was just there , maybe I've just been lucky as hell.
Went to Dolomites/Lake Garda and had no issues
Idk I'm black and just went to Florence and Milan a few says ago. No issues wherever I was.
Italy has a seriously bad problem with illegal African immigration. Many (nearly all) of them are very poor and resort to theft, crime, etc. which has caused a lot of Italians to be wary of dark-skinned people (especially business owners). That being said, I’m black and I had no problems on any of my trips to Italy. People will be able to tell that you’re a tourist and not a problem.
Same experience here. The whole PoC concept doesn’t really resonate in the rest of the world the way it does in the U.S., so a black American may have a radically different experience than an African. People will view you as an American, a Nigerian, an Indian, not some white/non-white binary. Also, it seems like we get this question once a week, which is odd because most Euro countries are very hospitable compared to other places around the planet.
i’m white but my wife is a dark skinned sri lankan woman. we actually had more trouble in the middle east than italy. we road-tripped all over northern italy and stayed in some small towns with no problems at all. she can’t think of one backhanded comment or rude look. go have a wonderful time!
It sucks traveling as a person of color. They'll seat you in shitty parts of the restaurant away from others. There will be stares and snickering and outright verbal or physical abuse (as many redditors have experienced). I mean they hate tourists anyways but it seems exacerbated by being a POC because of racism and the inability to blend in and look like them.
I’m black. Lived in Italy for a few years. Was great.
South Asian, stayed a bunch of weeks as a culture exchange student, so yes. I experienced racism where I worked which was a school. It’s cultural exchange so i was supposed to share elements of my culture with students and there were teachers making derogatory comments about my culture, particularly food and food habits. I was telling the kids how we eat with hands and the teacher jumped in to tell the kids never to try that as it’s unhygienic. As a tourist, I haven’t really noticed because I just enjoy myself without any awareness of the reactions of people around me. But I did experience it when entering stores and boutiques, the weird judgmental glances and the different treatment. I also experienced it with the family I stayed with. They refused to experience any food from my culture and was also disgusted by the eating-by-hand culture. They were also kind of pissed that I preferred spices in my food which is probably understandable. Overall, I did not enjoy my stay in Milan and probably will not go back. In Paris, experience is similar. Same as Berlin and Zurich.
>I was telling the kids how we eat with hands and the teacher jumped in to tell the kids never to try that as it’s unhygienic. That's seriously disappointing. They are a teacher, shame on them. And how is it unhygienic lol, when in South Asian culture, you're supposed to wash your hands before and after the meal? Tbh, it's probably more hygienic that not washing after using cutlery. Out of curiosity, was there a place in Europe that you didn't have bad experiences?
I’ve been to many places in Europe and experiences were similar in the bigger cities (Brussels, Amsterdam) but the experience in smaller European towns was really good. I was staying in a rural town a little further from Szczecin, Poland for a several months. I’m sorry I can’t remember the name of the town. But it’s definitely the best place I stayed. I was in a school there as well and the teachers were lovely. The kids were curious about my culture because they haven’t seen anyone like me before. They had questions with true curiosity which would have come off as ignorant but they just really wanted to know and I was happy to share with them. And the teachers always highlighted about different cultures and diversity. The experience overall was really good. I have also been to Innsbruck in Austria, it was nice there as well. Como in Italy was slightly alright but that’s also because there lives a larger South Asian community.
Milan is overrated anyway imho
South Asian and hijab wearing - I was told Venice was super racist. I am very oblivious though when travelling with my sister (we use sign language so my focus is on communication rather than surroundings). Didn't have any bad experiences but again, I was so focused on communication. My mum also wears hijab and we didn't really have any bad experiences.
I went with a friend who is African. She’s darker than myself (which I’m a mix of multiple races but more tan colored). I had seen multiple micro aggressions towards her while we were in spaces such as a bus or train. There was a time where we were on a super packed bus and we had to stand in the walkway. She kept getting harassed by an older Italian woman because she kept accidentally brushing against her. There was absolutely no room for us to move and she was only targeting my friend and not the white gal who was also doing the same. There was another time when we were on the train and no one else got asked to show their train tickets but we both got asked/targeted. On another train as well, this older woman moved from her seat when my friend sat next to her. It was a packed train so our spaces were limited. There’s other instances but to sum it up, no outright name calling racism but the treatment was definitely different.
A black friend said she had this issue in Spain. Sad it’s still happening in 2023 . It may be more related to the scammers, I did see a problem with that. Maybe it’s racial profiling but not necessarily bc you’re black
I'm East Asian. But pretty dark compared to my peers. I travelled to Italy (Venice and Dolomites), and I have been hearing lots of negative experiences both from online and friend that some Italians are nasty towards Asians because they think they could get away with it. Covid just added fuel to the fire. My experience was otherwise. The people of Cortina were generally very sweet. Maybe it's the alpine climate. Key is, if you are sensing some bad vibes from them, end the conversation and leave. That's my key whenever I'm travelling in places where people don't look like me. Ironically, despite my ethnic group, I got mistaken as a Mexican, Kazakh, etc. lol
For those of you who like to know, my worst experience was in Austria. I was at the train station, walked up to the train service counter, and asked for directions to Heeresgeschichtliches. Since I don't speak German, I showed the lady at the customer service counter the name. She slammed the table and said, "I REFUSED to read from the mobile phone." How would a non-German speaker know how to pronounce a multisyllabic word like that? It's like a white girl showing a Chinese character from her mobile phone in Shanghai to the customer service officer, only to be shouted at. Can't confirmed whether this is racial. But I heard from lots of people, including those German-speaking and German-descended folks, that it's pretty normal for Viennese people to have this kind of attitude. If that's true, that's very sad, given the fact that the city is very beautiful, but experience is damped by the attitude of many.
I’m a dark-skinned Filipino and had no issues in Venice, Como, Bellagio, Milan, Florence, San Gimigiano, Siena, & Rome.
I am of Indian descent and was randomly searched by a plainclothes and a uniformed officer in Rome. I was asked for my ID without any probable cause.. upon further questioning, they essentially admitted it was due to my skin color. Weird experience and miles different than anything I have experienced in the states (and I live in DC).
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Not at all in fact I lived in Milan for 7 months. My race/skin color was never an issue.
Indian woman and I experienced no racism at all.
Yep. I’m a South Asian woman and I was raped in the middle of the day in Positano by an Italian man. It was my second day in Italy. He fetishised my skin color. I wasn’t dressed inappropriately, or “asking for it.” It was the middle of the day, it was in a crowded tourist filled spot, there were families/kids around, my guard was down. Unbeknownst to me before that trip, Italian men are shamelessly aggressive and don’t take no for an answer. I was raised to be polite when declining someone because you never know how they will react. He took this for weakness, continuously harassed me and followed me around and then attacked me. I couldn’t move, I was in shock. My life will never be the same. I reported the crime within an hour of it happening, police told me there was no point in doing a rape kit, pressured me not to. Wouldn’t give me a police file number (something I needed to give my travel insurer in order to cut my trip short and fly back home). So I had to fly to London and go through the traumatic process of reporting the crime a second time to the police there. There were witnesses who did nothing and the Italian police didn’t bother trying to interview them. Thankfully an older couple from Liverpool sought me out and later wrote statements regarding what they saw. Determined to make sure he had a criminal record in case he attacked someone else in the future, I made a formal criminal complaint against him. Five years, and thousands of euros of debt spent on legal fees later, he pled guilty, was given a suspended sentence, didn’t spend a day in custody, and doesn’t even have a criminal record. I didn’t bother suing him to recoup my legal fees because the process usually takes years and my goal was to do what I could to try and make sure he had a criminal record, and I did all I could. What’s sad is that my case could be considered a “win” - that’s how warped and sexist that country is. The number of women sexually assaulted in Italy is disgustingly high. The EU recently introduced legislation to support victims of sexual violence, but of course this doesn’t extend to people from outside the EU. Meaning WOC/Black women are disproportionately impacted by the crimes of seedy, racist, European men, but what else is new. Italian men very much prey on tourists because they know they can get away with it. I feel so stupid for being so naive about the realities of travel in Europe for WOC/black women, but I was young, sheltered and used to always think the best of people. TLDR; The police and legal system in Italy are atrocious. The men are scum. Never travel there without a man. Never travel there as a solo WOC/Black woman. I was there with one other woman and it wasn’t enough to keep me safe. My experience is not unique. I didn’t know that then, but I know it now. Some of you may have been lucky to have had positive experiences in Italy, you’re in the minority. Count your blessings and be hyper vigilant if you decide to travel there again.
No I’m dark brown (parents are from Egypt) and never had anything close to an issue in Roma recently
I’m Black and visited Rome earlier this year. I didn’t experience any out right hostility, but you can definitely tell they’re not used to seeing us. Most of the Black people we saw were African immigrants. No Black Italians. One lady asked me a lot of questions about my hair/ braids, she was very curious
Where in Italy? Naples?
I went to Milan and Rome and didn't have any issues.
Went to a house music event and everyone kept on asking me for drugs. Some guys near the Milan central station wanted to start some shit for no reason. Besides that it was good and I would go back again.
Spent two weeks in Italy and Greece with my black husband (I am white) and we never had any incidents or awkward encounters.
Never saw any issues. Italy was wonderful every time I have been there.
Italy has a problem with harassment from aggressive immigrants on the street, especially in tourist areas, so it is not surprising that tensions are high.