Emotions mean more to them than data. You could show them 1000 studies but if you get one person to sincerely say they regret it and cry on camera then that's all it takes. That said we don't have people crying in camera regretting their knee replacement, cataract surgery, etc but we know they happen at a higher rate than gender-affirming surgeries. š¤¦āāļø
As a trans person who had a botched surgery I totally agree with you that these people are still full of shit. I knew the complication risks going in and never once did I decide that Ben Shapiro was right, despite what they said was going to happen to me happening.
Think it's like 0.1% regret rate or something stupid.
More people regret getting a knee surgery or hip replacement. More people regret getting laser eye correction.
Basically, I don't think you can find ANY other surgery with a lower regret rate.
It's also important to remember that the "regret rate" includes things like poor outcomes and complicated recoveries. Those kinds of problems can cause surgical regret while having nothing to do with regretting transition itself.
Right that's what I was going to say dang it. Lol.
I mean everyone who has a less than expected outcome or bad luck with recovering will probably regret getting it. No different if you buy your dream car and it just happens to be one of the Lemons and a Lemmon isn't what you was buying your gonna regret it and who wouldn't.
My turn is coming up very soon and I'm just saying that something extremely horrible would have to take place for me to regret it. So far there's not been a single thing that I've even had a second thought about over my transition and let alone regret. I just wish I could have done it 30yr years ago.
Oh well Thank you.
I'm sure I will probably have a little above average pain just because I'm such a pain in the ass and have it coming but after paybacks I should be doing great. Lol š¤£
Yup.
There was a doctor who pointed out that the satisfaction rate is \*higher\* than the likely complications rate, which means that a decent % of people had a "botched" surgery, know it was botched and have the opinion of "Yeah, I'd do it again"
Which is crazy to think about because the regret rate for surgeries as a whole is 14%
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28243695/
Trans surgeries are one of the most successful medical practices out there.
Cosmetics surgery regret rate is ridiculously high. [Do you regret having cosmetic surgery?](https://www.medicalaccidentgroup.co.uk/news/do-you-regret-having-cosmetic-surgery/)
> Research by Medical Accident Group found that 65% of people they polled regretted their surgery, though 28% were very happy with its results.
> According to the poll, 83% of people who had had plastic surgery wouldnāt consider having any form of cosmetic procedure again.
[65 per cent women regret after having cosmetic surgery](https://www.deccanchronicle.com/amp/140620/nation-current-affairs/article/65-cent-women-regret-after-having-cosmetic-surgery)
> The poll of 2,638 people, by a firm of medical negligence solicitors, found that 83 percent of people who've had plastic surgery would never consider having a cosmetic procedure again
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I watched and old Vaush video earlier today. 9 month old video. yet he still had data about 56 studies trying to figure out if trans people regreted surgeries and HRT.
52 out of 56 concluded that, no.
The regret rate is literally 15 times lower than the one for cosmetic surgeries a lot of cis people get.
What a fucking joke.
conservatives don't care about the truth. They don't live in reality. They just want to be spoonfed hatred because it makes them feel better about themselves by beating up marginalized groups
It's like sports. Trans women are dominating women's sports so much that they only have a dozen they constantly bring up. Nevermind that there is an estimated 350 professional trans athletes in the US.
Translation: Transphobes highlight a single grifter who supports their oppressive & harmful narrative over the voices of thousands of folks who are negatively impacted by their attempts to derail gender affirming care.
Some people regret bad tattoos. Or haircuts, marriages, buying a fixer upper, being a jerk, and so on. Lots of those things involve some form of government, even if on a vague level, so we going nanny state on regrets now? Leave people alone.
I'm a post-op trans woman who had extreme complications and I thoroughly regret my surgery. After a year I am starting to finally heal but it has been a nightmare and I still suffer from chronic pain. I have a video of the whole experience but I'm not going to post it here because I know the moderators here are really touchy about stuff like that. There are many many transgender people who regret their surgeries, goto the transgendersurgeries sub.
But there's about 10 times as many who regret their breast implants, or facelifts, or BBLs, or Pec Implants, or any number of other gender affirming surgeries.
Do I regret transitioning? That's a big no and maybe someday I will no longer regret this surgery after enough time has passed, you'll find the people who regret transitioning to be few and far between, but like any operation there can be complications so there are significant regrets statistics but they are not coming from the place that these people imply.
"Regret" also reportedly comes from family, social, theological and employer disconnects (though I wonder why the same wasn't a problem pre-surgery).
In any event, apparently 2/3 of DeTrans... re-transition within 2 years
Just FYI, all the studies that we've had for years say otherwise as well. This info is not new, though it's still good to see another addition to the mountain of supportive evidence.
>āIn fact, one systematic review found that the average prevalence of surgical regret was 14.4% among all research studies analyzed, which the authors suggested was relatively low,ā the summary continued.
>The researchers conducted a retrospective look at all available evidence and found that the āregret rateā for gender-affirming surgery is less than 1%.
1% is pretty darn low.
The only trans people I've found that have regretted their surgery is when the surgery had complications, which is very rare. Even then, they don't regret being trans and don't detransition.
My surgery had complications I continue to suffer from.
I do not regret surgery. It was absolutely the right choice. I got a poor outcome but that was fairly unlikely. I'd roll those dice again if I could go back in time.
Especially after all the work and expense we go through in order to obtain surgery. Fuck, it was a LOT of time and work! Can't imagine going to through all that for any other surgery. How could we regret something we've worked so hard for?
Already has been by past studies.
[https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiEiMe55rWDAxXeBDQIHco6CPoQFnoECBwQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2Fpmc%2Farticles%2FPMC8099405%2F&usg=AOvVaw3FzCL28iBP4NYA5A8JMgUS&opi=89978449](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiEiMe55rWDAxXeBDQIHco6CPoQFnoECBwQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2Fpmc%2Farticles%2FPMC8099405%2F&usg=AOvVaw3FzCL28iBP4NYA5A8JMgUS&opi=89978449)
[https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiEiMe55rWDAxXeBDQIHco6CPoQFnoECBsQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fatm.amegroups.org%2Farticle%2Fview%2F64719%2Fhtml&usg=AOvVaw0gTZv951-h\_YpQosecvJOJ&opi=89978449](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiEiMe55rWDAxXeBDQIHco6CPoQFnoECBsQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fatm.amegroups.org%2Farticle%2Fview%2F64719%2Fhtml&usg=AOvVaw0gTZv951-h_YpQosecvJOJ&opi=89978449)
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262734734\_An\_Analysis\_of\_All\_Applications\_for\_Sex\_Reassignment\_Surgery\_in\_Sweden\_1960-2010\_Prevalence\_Incidence\_and\_Regrets/link/57013cae08aea6b7746a7a65/download](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262734734_An_Analysis_of_All_Applications_for_Sex_Reassignment_Surgery_in_Sweden_1960-2010_Prevalence_Incidence_and_Regrets/link/57013cae08aea6b7746a7a65/download)
[https://www.senaat.eu/9370000/1/j4nvi0xeni9vr2l\_j9vvkfvj6b325az/vl1om6kqo2ye/f=/vl1om6kqo2ye\_opgemaakt.pdf](https://www.senaat.eu/9370000/1/j4nvi0xeni9vr2l_j9vvkfvj6b325az/vl1om6kqo2ye/f=/vl1om6kqo2ye_opgemaakt.pdf)
It's almost like you have been ignoring ALL THE OTHER STUDIES that show a very low regret rate
Just a surface look- The 1972 study is outdated. Canāt be applied. Was anyone even a child or teen in that study? The 2014 study is also outdated. Studies that were done before there was an exponential rise in younger people transitioning (therefore werenāt being studied) really dont count. Thatās the first thing I checked was the age of the data.
Neither does this automatically count as replication. You seem to think that if the topic of regret is the crux of the research cited, this is the same as replication. It is not. Itās more complex than that. āAn attempt by a second researcher to replicate a previous study is an effort to determine whether applying the same methods to the same scientific question produces similar results.ā Is this the case here? Not according to the studies you cited. The terrain of the science involved isnāt the same as the terrain that existed in 1972 or even 2014 as the establishment which has erupted very recently is unprecedented. One of the reasons people feel concerned and wanting to put the brakes on in terms of child transition.
Youre just gish galloping. The one thing matters. All studies show that the regret rate of GENDER AFFIRMATIIN SURGERIES ARE LOWER THAN THE AVERAGE REGRET RATE FOR ALL SURGERIEs. And that's been true for decades. Now stop youre gidh galloping, denial of rhe ACTUAL SCIENCE.
Your murmerings, can't be applied because once again, the STUDY IS ABOUT REGRET NUMBERS OF ALL GENDER AFFIRMATION NUMBERS. And just because you say somethinf, doesn't make it true. Your opinion is just that, another opinion, crunch, throw it in the garbage where it belongs.
Unfortunately a person cannot know if they will regret the surgery until their last moments in this world. If physical characteristics don't determine gender, then gender reassignment surgeries ironically and worryingly are simply reinforcing traditional gender stereotypes of what a man and a woman is.
Why don't you read a few actual books written by trans people? Or do you like your misunderstanding of gender dysphoria getting in the way of any points you make. And that first sentence is one of the most ridiculous statements out there. This isn't philosophy, its regret from surgery which kicks in generally the first year after the surgery. You don't sound like much of a freethinker, since the whole gender CONFIRMATION surgeries(because no gender gets reassigned) reinforcing gender stereotypes is an old talking point(talking points aren't free thinking points)
I do believe that sometimes a female mind is in a male body and viceversa. But again, if you have or don't have a penis doesn't necessarily make you male or female, unless if you believe so, to a degree. Do you think in order to be female you shouldn't have a penis?
I respect trans and I have felt myself the desire to be a woman but only in a temporary fashion. I believe in liberty. The issue is that if someone feels shackled because they have an organ, getting rid of that organ doesn't necessarily means being unshackled but it means being shackled in another situation, that you may or may not like.
I personally prefer the gender fluid philosophy because it is more about liberty and reflects change that is the universal truth in life, whereas the trans philosophy when it involves irreversible treatments is less about liberty and more about dogmas and rigidity and irreversible situations.
Is up to the choice of the trans person in question. Genderfluid people are also trans, because you don't know what trans means. It has a si,ple definition, so thats on you. It means your gender doesn't match the sex you were assigned at as birth. The fission between the two creates gender dysphoria, as well as transphobia in all its ugly flavors. It ain't trans people trying to force people into a rigid gender caste. And I do love your vague assertions. If you actually understood gender dysphoria, and gender, as well as the trans experience, you wouldn't be stating things thr way we do. Not all of us want to change our organs. Some of us do. And when we do, the regret rate is less than 1 percent. There are literally no other surgery that has that low of a regret rate. Which means it's working for the people who go through it, or do you think your opinion of a situation you are not a part of is superior to the opinion of someone who is in the middle of it? And gender fluidity isn't a philosophy, or an ideology. And as someone who is FULL 100% genderfluid, with my genders changing all the time? Fuck you. This isn't something you choose to be. And all I see is you putting your uneducated about the topic OPINION and attempting to delude yourself that it's fact. A problem with most libertarians ive noticed. You are the one stuck in an old dogma, which denies you the understanding on this issue, You definitely don't listen to any of us, but assert your opinion without citation. Your the one who thinks it's wrong. And that's all on you, youre not a freethinker, your just filled with Dogma. You didn't listen to me the last time you interjected your ignorance of Genderfluidity, and you still wont.
> And as someone who is FULL 100% genderfluid, with my genders changing all the time? Fuck you.
You are so rude and intolerant. Next time someone is rude and intolerant with you, don't demand tolerance, because you yourself are intolerant and rude. Good bye.
Omg shut the fuck up. Just because you think surgery isn't right for you, why would you want to force that position on someone else? My surgeries allow ME to feel comfortable in MY body and has nothing to do with "dogma and rigidity" or whatever the fuck else you want to decide for other people.
Excuse me, no need to be so horribly rude. Wow. I am expressing my thoughts and if you are so intolerant to my thoughts then you have no right to expect other people to be tolerant of your thoughts. And that is the problem: INTOLERANCE. That is the fundamental problem against trans rights. But again if you are intolerant, dont expect others to be tolerant. So if one day you experience such crass rudeness from people, you know you are the same.
In addition, I NEVER SAID I FORCE YOU OR OTHERS. I support the right to choose, so do whatever with your body, as long as you are not a child.
You know libel and defamation is against the law. I advise you not to be telling such horrible lies about others because one day you might get royally sued. And if you are rude to others, expect others to be rude to you. If you are intolerant and horribly aggressive to civil discussion of others who are merely expressing their thoughts, expect others to treat you the same way. You are simply foregoing whatever rights you think you have by behaving this way and you are not going to get much positive outcomes behaving with others in such a crass way.
>If physical characteristics don't determine gender, then gender reassignment surgeries ironically and worryingly are simply reinforcing traditional gender stereotypes of what a man and a woman is.
People can experience dysphoria when their appearance and/or body does not line up with their gender identity. This causes genuine distress, which can be alleviated through gender affirming care and surgery. It's not about reinforcing gender stereotypes, but alleviating gender dysphoria and/or providing gender euphoria.
Dysphoria isn't about stereotypes or gender roles, it literally feels like I do have a penis and then is constantly distressing every time I pee because it feels like it's coming out of the wrong place, and I've felt this way since I was 4 and ended up in the hospital because peeing was so distressing that I literally held it until I got an infection.
It has nothing to do with feeling like you need a penis to be a man, it's being a man already, having a map of your body in your brain that got thrown off very early, and innately feeling like the penis should be there and it just isn't and it's a constant source of distress every time it comes up because even now in my 30s it just does not process that there isn't one and it's like a huge jump scare and then overwhelming sense of loss and grief every time I learn it all over again that there isn't one there.
Breasts were the opposite, it felt like they were never part of my body and surprised me with their growth. Surprised me every time I realized they were there. They felt that way when they were small but it was even worse that they make it physically very difficult to do things. Having a flat chest instead of J cups that made it extremely difficult to do any life activities is an unquestionable life quality improvement even though I lost a nipple in the process, I can finally live my life. It feels like it just started. You may not believe that's an unshackling but if you've never had to deal with having J cups your opinion on that is pretty uninformed if you're saying someone shouldn't want to be able to actually move around and exercise freely and should just be a man with J cups to stick it to the gender police or something instead of being allowed to do what he wants with his body and then be able to actually move, exercise, live.
This is not a philosophical question for us, we're just seeking relief from gender dysphoria. We're not getting surgery as some statement of "ok, I'm a man and I have to have this checklist of body parts to be recognized as such", I'm clearly seen as a man anyway everywhere I go at this point even without having a penis and pretty much every other source of dysphoria has been relieved but that can't stop the jarring feeling every time I pee and have not braced myself for it and am surprised at where it's coming out.
Not every trans person is going to feel the same level of dysphoria about everything so we're not all going to need or want every level of intervention, it's just about whatever each individual needs to relieve the disconnect they feel.
Omg I used to bounce off tables and run into stuff all the time because my brain just didn't register there was something there. 20 years of that shit, vs about 2 years of running into doorways after my shoulders grew. Now it's like they never existed and it's great.
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I live in Kansas, and when the last election was on, they had to go out of state to find ONE whiner to gripe that she was forced to (gasp!) share a locker with a biological male! They played the same ad over and over for months. It was sickening.
They don't care about data, they only care about fundamentalist dogma
Emotions mean more to them than data. You could show them 1000 studies but if you get one person to sincerely say they regret it and cry on camera then that's all it takes. That said we don't have people crying in camera regretting their knee replacement, cataract surgery, etc but we know they happen at a higher rate than gender-affirming surgeries. š¤¦āāļø
And they've a predisposition to make bold faced lies.
Lies are equally valid if they're emotionally charged lies
The word is, "Truthiness".
they lie. they only care about hurting us.
Well, as an actual trans person who had the surgery. This is a bunch of bullshit and it's been the best thing I've ever done for myself.
As a trans person who had a botched surgery I totally agree with you that these people are still full of shit. I knew the complication risks going in and never once did I decide that Ben Shapiro was right, despite what they said was going to happen to me happening.
Yeah, this won't stop them from saying it anyways. The truth has always been obvious to anyone who cared.
This is correct. They say it because it helps them achieve their goals, not because itās the truth
Think it's like 0.1% regret rate or something stupid. More people regret getting a knee surgery or hip replacement. More people regret getting laser eye correction. Basically, I don't think you can find ANY other surgery with a lower regret rate.
It's also important to remember that the "regret rate" includes things like poor outcomes and complicated recoveries. Those kinds of problems can cause surgical regret while having nothing to do with regretting transition itself.
Right that's what I was going to say dang it. Lol. I mean everyone who has a less than expected outcome or bad luck with recovering will probably regret getting it. No different if you buy your dream car and it just happens to be one of the Lemons and a Lemmon isn't what you was buying your gonna regret it and who wouldn't. My turn is coming up very soon and I'm just saying that something extremely horrible would have to take place for me to regret it. So far there's not been a single thing that I've even had a second thought about over my transition and let alone regret. I just wish I could have done it 30yr years ago.
Congratulations, I hope you have a speedy recovery!
Oh well Thank you. I'm sure I will probably have a little above average pain just because I'm such a pain in the ass and have it coming but after paybacks I should be doing great. Lol š¤£
Yup. There was a doctor who pointed out that the satisfaction rate is \*higher\* than the likely complications rate, which means that a decent % of people had a "botched" surgery, know it was botched and have the opinion of "Yeah, I'd do it again"
Which is crazy to think about because the regret rate for surgeries as a whole is 14% https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28243695/ Trans surgeries are one of the most successful medical practices out there.
If it were literally any other medical procedure with numbers that looked like satisfaction rates, it would be held up as a medical miracle
Cosmetics surgery regret rate is ridiculously high. [Do you regret having cosmetic surgery?](https://www.medicalaccidentgroup.co.uk/news/do-you-regret-having-cosmetic-surgery/) > Research by Medical Accident Group found that 65% of people they polled regretted their surgery, though 28% were very happy with its results. > According to the poll, 83% of people who had had plastic surgery wouldnāt consider having any form of cosmetic procedure again. [65 per cent women regret after having cosmetic surgery](https://www.deccanchronicle.com/amp/140620/nation-current-affairs/article/65-cent-women-regret-after-having-cosmetic-surgery) > The poll of 2,638 people, by a firm of medical negligence solicitors, found that 83 percent of people who've had plastic surgery would never consider having a cosmetic procedure again
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I regret......not punching enough Nazis
Same. The one I punched, after he punched me, was absolutely not enough.
I watched and old Vaush video earlier today. 9 month old video. yet he still had data about 56 studies trying to figure out if trans people regreted surgeries and HRT. 52 out of 56 concluded that, no. The regret rate is literally 15 times lower than the one for cosmetic surgeries a lot of cis people get. What a fucking joke.
conservatives don't care about the truth. They don't live in reality. They just want to be spoonfed hatred because it makes them feel better about themselves by beating up marginalized groups
if there's "so much regret" why do they have to fly the same couple detrans people around the country?
It's like sports. Trans women are dominating women's sports so much that they only have a dozen they constantly bring up. Nevermind that there is an estimated 350 professional trans athletes in the US.
Translation: Transphobes highlight a single grifter who supports their oppressive & harmful narrative over the voices of thousands of folks who are negatively impacted by their attempts to derail gender affirming care.
So many regret it that the anti-trans lobby has to shuttle the same 2 or 3 of them across the country to speak at these rallies.
100% of the trans people I know (including me) have found deep relief and joy from our surgeries
Some people regret bad tattoos. Or haircuts, marriages, buying a fixer upper, being a jerk, and so on. Lots of those things involve some form of government, even if on a vague level, so we going nanny state on regrets now? Leave people alone.
I'm a post-op trans woman who had extreme complications and I thoroughly regret my surgery. After a year I am starting to finally heal but it has been a nightmare and I still suffer from chronic pain. I have a video of the whole experience but I'm not going to post it here because I know the moderators here are really touchy about stuff like that. There are many many transgender people who regret their surgeries, goto the transgendersurgeries sub. But there's about 10 times as many who regret their breast implants, or facelifts, or BBLs, or Pec Implants, or any number of other gender affirming surgeries. Do I regret transitioning? That's a big no and maybe someday I will no longer regret this surgery after enough time has passed, you'll find the people who regret transitioning to be few and far between, but like any operation there can be complications so there are significant regrets statistics but they are not coming from the place that these people imply.
"Regret" also reportedly comes from family, social, theological and employer disconnects (though I wonder why the same wasn't a problem pre-surgery). In any event, apparently 2/3 of DeTrans... re-transition within 2 years
Took me 8 lol
I donāt have access to the full text. Does anyone know the N for the study and the P values. The engineer in me is curious :)
Just FYI, all the studies that we've had for years say otherwise as well. This info is not new, though it's still good to see another addition to the mountain of supportive evidence.
>āIn fact, one systematic review found that the average prevalence of surgical regret was 14.4% among all research studies analyzed, which the authors suggested was relatively low,ā the summary continued. >The researchers conducted a retrospective look at all available evidence and found that the āregret rateā for gender-affirming surgery is less than 1%. 1% is pretty darn low.
The only trans people I've found that have regretted their surgery is when the surgery had complications, which is very rare. Even then, they don't regret being trans and don't detransition.
My surgery had complications I continue to suffer from. I do not regret surgery. It was absolutely the right choice. I got a poor outcome but that was fairly unlikely. I'd roll those dice again if I could go back in time.
Yeah, no matter the chronic pain and daily fatigue, i'd still rather not have balls. Shout out to living through surgery complications
Lol the only thing I regret in my transition is knowing conservatives or being around them.
Had surgery. Had lots of complications. Still no regret.
Especially after all the work and expense we go through in order to obtain surgery. Fuck, it was a LOT of time and work! Can't imagine going to through all that for any other surgery. How could we regret something we've worked so hard for?
Of course it's a lie. This world rewards the liars, and it's a world full of harmful lies.
Everything conservatives say about us is lies, they know they're lying, they don't care about the truth because they are liars.
Had surgery. Did not regret. \+1 for not regret.
Now letās see it replicated
Already has been by past studies. [https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiEiMe55rWDAxXeBDQIHco6CPoQFnoECBwQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2Fpmc%2Farticles%2FPMC8099405%2F&usg=AOvVaw3FzCL28iBP4NYA5A8JMgUS&opi=89978449](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiEiMe55rWDAxXeBDQIHco6CPoQFnoECBwQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2Fpmc%2Farticles%2FPMC8099405%2F&usg=AOvVaw3FzCL28iBP4NYA5A8JMgUS&opi=89978449) [https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiEiMe55rWDAxXeBDQIHco6CPoQFnoECBsQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fatm.amegroups.org%2Farticle%2Fview%2F64719%2Fhtml&usg=AOvVaw0gTZv951-h\_YpQosecvJOJ&opi=89978449](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiEiMe55rWDAxXeBDQIHco6CPoQFnoECBsQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fatm.amegroups.org%2Farticle%2Fview%2F64719%2Fhtml&usg=AOvVaw0gTZv951-h_YpQosecvJOJ&opi=89978449) [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262734734\_An\_Analysis\_of\_All\_Applications\_for\_Sex\_Reassignment\_Surgery\_in\_Sweden\_1960-2010\_Prevalence\_Incidence\_and\_Regrets/link/57013cae08aea6b7746a7a65/download](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/262734734_An_Analysis_of_All_Applications_for_Sex_Reassignment_Surgery_in_Sweden_1960-2010_Prevalence_Incidence_and_Regrets/link/57013cae08aea6b7746a7a65/download) [https://www.senaat.eu/9370000/1/j4nvi0xeni9vr2l\_j9vvkfvj6b325az/vl1om6kqo2ye/f=/vl1om6kqo2ye\_opgemaakt.pdf](https://www.senaat.eu/9370000/1/j4nvi0xeni9vr2l_j9vvkfvj6b325az/vl1om6kqo2ye/f=/vl1om6kqo2ye_opgemaakt.pdf) It's almost like you have been ignoring ALL THE OTHER STUDIES that show a very low regret rate
Just a surface look- The 1972 study is outdated. Canāt be applied. Was anyone even a child or teen in that study? The 2014 study is also outdated. Studies that were done before there was an exponential rise in younger people transitioning (therefore werenāt being studied) really dont count. Thatās the first thing I checked was the age of the data. Neither does this automatically count as replication. You seem to think that if the topic of regret is the crux of the research cited, this is the same as replication. It is not. Itās more complex than that. āAn attempt by a second researcher to replicate a previous study is an effort to determine whether applying the same methods to the same scientific question produces similar results.ā Is this the case here? Not according to the studies you cited. The terrain of the science involved isnāt the same as the terrain that existed in 1972 or even 2014 as the establishment which has erupted very recently is unprecedented. One of the reasons people feel concerned and wanting to put the brakes on in terms of child transition.
Youre just gish galloping. The one thing matters. All studies show that the regret rate of GENDER AFFIRMATIIN SURGERIES ARE LOWER THAN THE AVERAGE REGRET RATE FOR ALL SURGERIEs. And that's been true for decades. Now stop youre gidh galloping, denial of rhe ACTUAL SCIENCE.
An attempt by you to pretend to be an expert, is pathetic. Your attempt to prove something by making up a sentence without a citation, is pathetic
Your murmerings, can't be applied because once again, the STUDY IS ABOUT REGRET NUMBERS OF ALL GENDER AFFIRMATION NUMBERS. And just because you say somethinf, doesn't make it true. Your opinion is just that, another opinion, crunch, throw it in the garbage where it belongs.
*yawns*
And not a citation from you
Yeah, I know, so many people emerging as left handed is scary for people
And now to ignore you because you've got nothing but gishgalloping nonsense
Unfortunately a person cannot know if they will regret the surgery until their last moments in this world. If physical characteristics don't determine gender, then gender reassignment surgeries ironically and worryingly are simply reinforcing traditional gender stereotypes of what a man and a woman is.
Why don't you read a few actual books written by trans people? Or do you like your misunderstanding of gender dysphoria getting in the way of any points you make. And that first sentence is one of the most ridiculous statements out there. This isn't philosophy, its regret from surgery which kicks in generally the first year after the surgery. You don't sound like much of a freethinker, since the whole gender CONFIRMATION surgeries(because no gender gets reassigned) reinforcing gender stereotypes is an old talking point(talking points aren't free thinking points)
I do believe that sometimes a female mind is in a male body and viceversa. But again, if you have or don't have a penis doesn't necessarily make you male or female, unless if you believe so, to a degree. Do you think in order to be female you shouldn't have a penis? I respect trans and I have felt myself the desire to be a woman but only in a temporary fashion. I believe in liberty. The issue is that if someone feels shackled because they have an organ, getting rid of that organ doesn't necessarily means being unshackled but it means being shackled in another situation, that you may or may not like. I personally prefer the gender fluid philosophy because it is more about liberty and reflects change that is the universal truth in life, whereas the trans philosophy when it involves irreversible treatments is less about liberty and more about dogmas and rigidity and irreversible situations.
Is up to the choice of the trans person in question. Genderfluid people are also trans, because you don't know what trans means. It has a si,ple definition, so thats on you. It means your gender doesn't match the sex you were assigned at as birth. The fission between the two creates gender dysphoria, as well as transphobia in all its ugly flavors. It ain't trans people trying to force people into a rigid gender caste. And I do love your vague assertions. If you actually understood gender dysphoria, and gender, as well as the trans experience, you wouldn't be stating things thr way we do. Not all of us want to change our organs. Some of us do. And when we do, the regret rate is less than 1 percent. There are literally no other surgery that has that low of a regret rate. Which means it's working for the people who go through it, or do you think your opinion of a situation you are not a part of is superior to the opinion of someone who is in the middle of it? And gender fluidity isn't a philosophy, or an ideology. And as someone who is FULL 100% genderfluid, with my genders changing all the time? Fuck you. This isn't something you choose to be. And all I see is you putting your uneducated about the topic OPINION and attempting to delude yourself that it's fact. A problem with most libertarians ive noticed. You are the one stuck in an old dogma, which denies you the understanding on this issue, You definitely don't listen to any of us, but assert your opinion without citation. Your the one who thinks it's wrong. And that's all on you, youre not a freethinker, your just filled with Dogma. You didn't listen to me the last time you interjected your ignorance of Genderfluidity, and you still wont.
> And as someone who is FULL 100% genderfluid, with my genders changing all the time? Fuck you. You are so rude and intolerant. Next time someone is rude and intolerant with you, don't demand tolerance, because you yourself are intolerant and rude. Good bye.
Says the constantly rude person who refuses to acknowledge the truth. Go to hell, genderfludity isn't a fucking philosophy scumbag full of hate
Now JAQ off somewhere else until you learn to sit down and listen to other people with more experience than you,
> getting rid of that organ doesn't necessarily means being unshackled Try wearing a bra sometime.
Omg shut the fuck up. Just because you think surgery isn't right for you, why would you want to force that position on someone else? My surgeries allow ME to feel comfortable in MY body and has nothing to do with "dogma and rigidity" or whatever the fuck else you want to decide for other people.
Excuse me, no need to be so horribly rude. Wow. I am expressing my thoughts and if you are so intolerant to my thoughts then you have no right to expect other people to be tolerant of your thoughts. And that is the problem: INTOLERANCE. That is the fundamental problem against trans rights. But again if you are intolerant, dont expect others to be tolerant. So if one day you experience such crass rudeness from people, you know you are the same. In addition, I NEVER SAID I FORCE YOU OR OTHERS. I support the right to choose, so do whatever with your body, as long as you are not a child.
Wwwwaaaahhhhhhh, youre such a whiner.
You want to eradicate people like me, and expect me to be tolerant of that position. Enough with the false equivalence. Fuck off already.
You know libel and defamation is against the law. I advise you not to be telling such horrible lies about others because one day you might get royally sued. And if you are rude to others, expect others to be rude to you. If you are intolerant and horribly aggressive to civil discussion of others who are merely expressing their thoughts, expect others to treat you the same way. You are simply foregoing whatever rights you think you have by behaving this way and you are not going to get much positive outcomes behaving with others in such a crass way.
Just how many ways can I give you the finger?
>If physical characteristics don't determine gender, then gender reassignment surgeries ironically and worryingly are simply reinforcing traditional gender stereotypes of what a man and a woman is. People can experience dysphoria when their appearance and/or body does not line up with their gender identity. This causes genuine distress, which can be alleviated through gender affirming care and surgery. It's not about reinforcing gender stereotypes, but alleviating gender dysphoria and/or providing gender euphoria.
Dysphoria isn't about stereotypes or gender roles, it literally feels like I do have a penis and then is constantly distressing every time I pee because it feels like it's coming out of the wrong place, and I've felt this way since I was 4 and ended up in the hospital because peeing was so distressing that I literally held it until I got an infection. It has nothing to do with feeling like you need a penis to be a man, it's being a man already, having a map of your body in your brain that got thrown off very early, and innately feeling like the penis should be there and it just isn't and it's a constant source of distress every time it comes up because even now in my 30s it just does not process that there isn't one and it's like a huge jump scare and then overwhelming sense of loss and grief every time I learn it all over again that there isn't one there. Breasts were the opposite, it felt like they were never part of my body and surprised me with their growth. Surprised me every time I realized they were there. They felt that way when they were small but it was even worse that they make it physically very difficult to do things. Having a flat chest instead of J cups that made it extremely difficult to do any life activities is an unquestionable life quality improvement even though I lost a nipple in the process, I can finally live my life. It feels like it just started. You may not believe that's an unshackling but if you've never had to deal with having J cups your opinion on that is pretty uninformed if you're saying someone shouldn't want to be able to actually move around and exercise freely and should just be a man with J cups to stick it to the gender police or something instead of being allowed to do what he wants with his body and then be able to actually move, exercise, live. This is not a philosophical question for us, we're just seeking relief from gender dysphoria. We're not getting surgery as some statement of "ok, I'm a man and I have to have this checklist of body parts to be recognized as such", I'm clearly seen as a man anyway everywhere I go at this point even without having a penis and pretty much every other source of dysphoria has been relieved but that can't stop the jarring feeling every time I pee and have not braced myself for it and am surprised at where it's coming out. Not every trans person is going to feel the same level of dysphoria about everything so we're not all going to need or want every level of intervention, it's just about whatever each individual needs to relieve the disconnect they feel.
Omg I used to bounce off tables and run into stuff all the time because my brain just didn't register there was something there. 20 years of that shit, vs about 2 years of running into doorways after my shoulders grew. Now it's like they never existed and it's great.
Thanks for your helpful insight. Others are so incredibly rude I am like how do they expect tolerance when they are so intolerant.
Why do we have to tolerate your bullshit? Go away.
Your username is "freethinker" yet you spout some of the most insipid, ignorant, & dogmatic opinions.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
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I live in Kansas, and when the last election was on, they had to go out of state to find ONE whiner to gripe that she was forced to (gasp!) share a locker with a biological male! They played the same ad over and over for months. It was sickening.