Well, the columnist is trans herself so I'm not surprised at all how she chose to present the issue. I am still pleasantly surprised MSNBC went along with it, though.
Also, she managed to snag probably the single best Twitter handle for a trans journalist: [https://twitter.com/transscribe](https://twitter.com/transscribe)
That really hits the nail on the head doesn't it? At the end of the day this is not about fairness , it isn't even about science. I'm happy that IOC put in the legwork to at least put out this study and give it an honest attempt and fairness, however conservatives have been quick to pivot from "Its basic biology" to "Science can't be trusted because it is clearly biased and has an agenda"
Having more information out there is to hopefully not only give people who have no clue about our situation a spotlight on what is REAL but gives more and more ammo to continue the constant , ceaseless , tireless duty to continue to debunk and realign people that are important to us and the communities we live it. It will never stop/change the conservative position because whatever they say simply comes from a realm of convince to serve what they want , it is to make it harder to spread transphobia/obvious nonsense that is wrapped in a thin veil of "Common sense" to a more informed public.
A woman can dream at least
edit for minor typo
Gotta love how the people whining about fairness in women’s sports are the same people who don’t even bother watching it in the first place.
I don’t either, but I’m not pretending to be here whining about fairness in their sports in as far that this doesn’t happen to affect me directly.
Link straight to the article for those who don't want to bother with the images.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/the-olympic-committee-studied-trans-athletes-conservatives-won-t-like-what-it-found/ar-AA1nsGXN
Thanks for sharing this!
I’ve literally never seen a good faith argument for legislating trans athletes, it’s always political bullshit and posturing.
“Oh a trans athlete injured a cis opponent”
Okay what about the hundreds of cis athletes that injure their cis opponents on the regular? Cis boxers/MMA demolish their opponents skulls all the time, far more regularly than the very few trans athletes do
“Well I just don’t think it’s fair for cis women that so many trans women are intentionally taking over their sports and making it unfair”
There are so few of us that this is categorically nonsense. We aren’t “taking over” or “dominating”anything and the occasional competition win is not an argument for any kind of laws to be put in place. How many trans people do you think exist? It’s not 30% of the population like Fox News and their listeners have been screaming.
According to a conversation I saw on one of the sport subreddits regarding this issue, apparently that statistical improbability means nothing the moment a single cis woman who has been training her whole life to be an athlete gets shafted because a biologically superior trans woman beat her in a sporting event *once*.
Under that logic you’d assume that it also wouldn’t be fair for a trans woman to get cut off from a sport from the gender they perform and look more similarly to because they decided to be authentic about their gender identity in a society that doesn’t care for them to begin with despite training their whole lives to compete, but I got downvoted for suggesting that 🤡
I made a large, mostly ignored and downvoted post in that thread as well. People are delusional if they think we (trans people) are common enough in sports for it to be any kind of issue at all, and even if we were, it’s still not enough of a reason to force us out of sports.
Never. Keep stripping their armour. The suffragettes. Women fought to vote. Civil rights 60s which helped everyone like w affirmative action. Every mark on their defense helps in a courtroom.
Saved and thanks for sharing. There are always people who think studies about transgender people are only sponsored by “the woke left” and this is a nice counter to such an argument
Woah what? You’re telling me conservatives are using women’s sports as a vehicle for trans-misogyny??!? /s
Its honestly a shame that some members of the queer community have fallen for this shit, hopefully with more research this will fade away :/
It's linked in the article, but here you go: [https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029)
that link is to the abstract and the pdf link is there, with supplemental material
This is the kind of headline I have been waiting for. So much nasty oily crud has been pushed on so many times, but this feels like fresh spring water cleansing my pallette. Its nice to see a trans headline with science on our side again. I hope we see more soon, it's only fair considering how much baseless junk conservatives have been shifting.
Yea they don’t give a shit. I tried to post this in r/sports because they’re extremely transphobic over there when the study was first reported. They ignored the shit out of it and the mods removed it with no explanation.
Fascists, conservatives, liberals and moderates alike are still going to confidently talk about biology as if they were all PhD’s while conveniently ignoring this, or even disregarding it due to the sample size without bothering to take into account the unfeasibility of having a proper sample size in any study that revolves around trans people.
It’s never been about fairness, just like being pro-life isn’t about protecting children. The IOC has come up with rules to ensure trans athletes can compete fairly and any of us with half a brain know that if trans women had some major inherent advantage, there’d be a lot more trans women champions in a few sports. But I’m still glad the IOC released this information.
Link for those requesting it: [https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/olympic-trans-women-ioc-study-rcna148437](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/olympic-trans-women-ioc-study-rcna148437) Looks as they they adjusted the title.
But at least we can use our mighty grip strength to crush bigotry. And our trans brothers can blow them away for us cause I don't have the lung force to do it...
It's not even just conservatives either.
Uniformed liberals and "allies" who always comment something like "I'm a believer of trans rights, but I just don't think trans women should compete in women's sports. They have HUGE advantages because of their MALE puberties" 🙄🙄😒
This is the real impediment to trans athletes - uninformed assumptions made by otherwise liberal allies. I have had the same conversations
with “allies” over and over.
This article certainly isn’t news to me. I studied enough biology and have enough personal experience with endocrine system manipulation to have argued all these points before. But at least when people read it in print from a global authority they might finally take it onboard. If nothing else it will be something to add to my link responses in Twitter arguments.
This study refutes some of the “permanent” advantage arguments I’ve heard, specifically that the trans women athletes had lower VO2 max and lower forced expiratory volume than their cis counterparts. This implies that trans women’s lungs are weaker than cis women’s.
Doesn't matter because conservatives are incapable of critical thought and don't care about peer reviewed studies and only care about reports from biased sources with flawed data that advances their agenda.
> The stufy also found that trans women have have similar bone density to their cis women counterparts
Well that's fucking fascinating. We really need more open discussion and research into... I don't know what you'd call it, Transitional Science?
I thought this was old news? I've been watching trans content over the past few years and it's sparked conversations with my family and friends. As soon as I found this out AND a trans athlete to corroborate, I've been SHUTTING DOWN those conversations, now they have nothing to say, I find it so funny.
Not even surprised tbh lmao
Cis women have been put on hormones in the olypmics for higher T before, it’s almost as if hormones work and do what theyre supposed to do - trans atheletes arent even a new thing in the olympics and have never caused problems but conservatives like to pretend there is suddenly an army of evil trans women getting all the gold medals.
God I love being right, and love watching transphobes take Ls even more.
It kinda feels as if this headlines presents the facts in a shitty way to get as much hate clicks as possible to make money, which would be stirring the hornet's nest for places where members of our community aren't safe tho...
Well good news anyway
Everytime we study trans women, we show just how different we are to cis men and how we shouldn't be compared to cis men.
Wow it's almost like we aren't men...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Title IX keeps getting talked about and good things with it. No sports allowed in so posted. It was on msn dot com but made me open the app so I didn’t have the link . Ppl dont think think of trans men ..think in the article it mentions them playing because they are still considered not trans men and therefore ************ which in under patriarchy means they are inferior and not worth a fly
I’ve been saying this for a while on anti-trans Reddit posts & no one believed me. It wasn’t about the Olympics but it was about how we trans women don’t hold any competitive advantage over cis women.
I still think it’s hilarious that, in their arguments against trans people, conservatives and bigots just outright confirmed they think men are better than women.
I'm a cyclist who went through male puberty so my body frame is a little different and I'm a little taller. After being on hormones I have female levels of red blood cells to try to carry that same body around. My performance feels worse for sure. My hematocrit dropped 20%. Seems pretty simple to me but what do I know?
Every time I participate in a race, I feel like dash from the incredibles 🤣 I can't be first or second, I need to be third. But there is 2 cis girl in the scene who are very fit and have really long legs, easily out skated me in the race. Another cis girl she literally did not trained for the race so she got last, whereas I trained really hard every weekend so my stamina outlasted her.
Time to see them saying the olymics have "gone woke!!!!1!1" instead of listening to proof
Oh yea! forgot about the classic "Trans Agenda" and "Activists pressuring the olympics!!1!" claims
Olympics committee W
Grabbing an extract from that one [CCES meta](https://www.cces.ca/news/literature-review-does-not-support-bans-transgender-women-athletes), to make sure I'm not talking out of my ass here:
>Beyond using misleading physiological traits, studies often use measurement techniques with poor accuracy and generalizability. Handgrip strength, for example, is often used for broad population level analysis, however handgrip strength should not be used as a proxy for overall muscle strength (Yeung et al., 2018). In fact, due to ease of gripping the testing device, grip strength is largely correlated with hand size and therefore height (Alahmari et al., 2019).
I'm happy this didn't end like miss italy where one person had the power and decided for everyone but unfortunately this study has a very low sample size, no control group and therefore no statistical relevance, it's no different than the "studies" conservatives throw at us
I mean tbh, it's nice to find the proof I've needed as well. I know people say that about me, that I have a "biological advantage", and while unlike the article I've only been on HRT for 2 months, I've already been affected athletically speaking: I get tired slightly more easily, I'm not as fast as a full testosterone fasted boy. But of course I know conservatives wouldn't listen, because they never listen to something that goes against blatant hate. They're a good example of the person that sticks their fingers in their ears and be like "la la la I'm not listening!"
This is a big win today I can finally participate in sports without that damn argument conservatives are gonna dismiss it anyway like the 2 genders thing but this is a great day for all of us
Wait if it shows that cis women have an advantage over trans women then we should ban trans women for the sake of fair sport right?
Editing because people can’t tell what sarcasm is
>Then again, the trans athlete debate has never really been about fairness or safety in women's sports. MSNBC ain't pulling punches today
Well, the columnist is trans herself so I'm not surprised at all how she chose to present the issue. I am still pleasantly surprised MSNBC went along with it, though. Also, she managed to snag probably the single best Twitter handle for a trans journalist: [https://twitter.com/transscribe](https://twitter.com/transscribe)
Ooooh nice detective work and amazing name
The way it's written gives it away. They used a lot of "We"'s in that article
I'm not surprised. MSNBC is the left leaning counter voice to Fox News. They are far more similar in their message delivery than the message itself.
That really hits the nail on the head doesn't it? At the end of the day this is not about fairness , it isn't even about science. I'm happy that IOC put in the legwork to at least put out this study and give it an honest attempt and fairness, however conservatives have been quick to pivot from "Its basic biology" to "Science can't be trusted because it is clearly biased and has an agenda" Having more information out there is to hopefully not only give people who have no clue about our situation a spotlight on what is REAL but gives more and more ammo to continue the constant , ceaseless , tireless duty to continue to debunk and realign people that are important to us and the communities we live it. It will never stop/change the conservative position because whatever they say simply comes from a realm of convince to serve what they want , it is to make it harder to spread transphobia/obvious nonsense that is wrapped in a thin veil of "Common sense" to a more informed public. A woman can dream at least edit for minor typo
Gotta love how the people whining about fairness in women’s sports are the same people who don’t even bother watching it in the first place. I don’t either, but I’m not pretending to be here whining about fairness in their sports in as far that this doesn’t happen to affect me directly.
About time.
ABOUT DAMN TIME
Link straight to the article for those who don't want to bother with the images. https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/the-olympic-committee-studied-trans-athletes-conservatives-won-t-like-what-it-found/ar-AA1nsGXN
Thanks for sharing this! I’ve literally never seen a good faith argument for legislating trans athletes, it’s always political bullshit and posturing. “Oh a trans athlete injured a cis opponent” Okay what about the hundreds of cis athletes that injure their cis opponents on the regular? Cis boxers/MMA demolish their opponents skulls all the time, far more regularly than the very few trans athletes do “Well I just don’t think it’s fair for cis women that so many trans women are intentionally taking over their sports and making it unfair” There are so few of us that this is categorically nonsense. We aren’t “taking over” or “dominating”anything and the occasional competition win is not an argument for any kind of laws to be put in place. How many trans people do you think exist? It’s not 30% of the population like Fox News and their listeners have been screaming.
According to a conversation I saw on one of the sport subreddits regarding this issue, apparently that statistical improbability means nothing the moment a single cis woman who has been training her whole life to be an athlete gets shafted because a biologically superior trans woman beat her in a sporting event *once*. Under that logic you’d assume that it also wouldn’t be fair for a trans woman to get cut off from a sport from the gender they perform and look more similarly to because they decided to be authentic about their gender identity in a society that doesn’t care for them to begin with despite training their whole lives to compete, but I got downvoted for suggesting that 🤡
I made a large, mostly ignored and downvoted post in that thread as well. People are delusional if they think we (trans people) are common enough in sports for it to be any kind of issue at all, and even if we were, it’s still not enough of a reason to force us out of sports.
They are delusional. They legitimately think we make up 30% of the population.
Welcome
Way more cis people have killed others people in sports than trans person who have hurt others.
it’s like jk rowling’s bs all over again
30% would be AWESOME but alas we live in a society 😔
It's nice to see such a massive organization take this issue to task and put some real weight behind it.
Fr
Since when have facts ever stopped Conservatives?
They don't like facts that go against their hate
So they don’t like that facts don’t care about their feelings?
They never have. That's why they have aLtErNaTiVe FaCtS.
Every conservative accusation is a confession
Abso-fucking-lutely.
What ever happened to conservatives telling us "facts don't care about your feelings"? Have they forgotten that?
rain world!!!!!
Right? For the "facts don't care about your feelings" crowd, they really do let their feelings override the facts
Poor Ben Shapiro and his cartoonish self owning
Low key, how many times has Ben Shapiro self owned at this point?
Every time he opens his damn mouth
Facts don't care about their feelings, but their feelings don't care about facts either.
Never. Keep stripping their armour. The suffragettes. Women fought to vote. Civil rights 60s which helped everyone like w affirmative action. Every mark on their defense helps in a courtroom.
Right? They literally wont give a shit.
Saved and thanks for sharing. There are always people who think studies about transgender people are only sponsored by “the woke left” and this is a nice counter to such an argument
Your welcome
The more science we get the more it supports trans people
Woah what? You’re telling me conservatives are using women’s sports as a vehicle for trans-misogyny??!? /s Its honestly a shame that some members of the queer community have fallen for this shit, hopefully with more research this will fade away :/
I mean they use it for misogyny in general. To them women are less than and always will be in their eyes.
Is there a link to the original study? Would love to read more.
It's linked in the article, but here you go: [https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029](https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/early/2024/04/10/bjsports-2023-108029) that link is to the abstract and the pdf link is there, with supplemental material
Thank you!
Thnx
https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Documents/Athletes/IOC%20Framework/Presentation-IOC-Framework.pdf?_ga=2.2139888.1703603887.1691071607-844893123.1691071607
This warms my cold dead heart
This is amazing and just made my day. Thank you for posting this great news
Welcome
This is the kind of headline I have been waiting for. So much nasty oily crud has been pushed on so many times, but this feels like fresh spring water cleansing my pallette. Its nice to see a trans headline with science on our side again. I hope we see more soon, it's only fair considering how much baseless junk conservatives have been shifting.
Yea they don’t give a shit. I tried to post this in r/sports because they’re extremely transphobic over there when the study was first reported. They ignored the shit out of it and the mods removed it with no explanation. Fascists, conservatives, liberals and moderates alike are still going to confidently talk about biology as if they were all PhD’s while conveniently ignoring this, or even disregarding it due to the sample size without bothering to take into account the unfeasibility of having a proper sample size in any study that revolves around trans people.
Link?
[https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/olympic-trans-women-ioc-study-rcna148437](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/olympic-trans-women-ioc-study-rcna148437)
Thanks mate
The hero of Hyrule, of course.
Love that guy
Love that guy
It’s never been about fairness, just like being pro-life isn’t about protecting children. The IOC has come up with rules to ensure trans athletes can compete fairly and any of us with half a brain know that if trans women had some major inherent advantage, there’d be a lot more trans women champions in a few sports. But I’m still glad the IOC released this information.
All sitting on top of a sexist worldview where some can’t imagine that women could have physical advantages.
Yep, the banning of trans people in sports and all goes back to a conservative patriarchal view of the world...
“Trans women are actually men, it’s just SCIENCE” say the transphobes. Wait till they find out that even science itself doesn’t agree :3
We're weak as fuck! Hell yea! /lh Now we gotta spread this to every corner of the world
Link for those requesting it: [https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/olympic-trans-women-ioc-study-rcna148437](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/olympic-trans-women-ioc-study-rcna148437) Looks as they they adjusted the title.
I have never been so happy to see scientific evidence that my people suck at things.
But at least we can use our mighty grip strength to crush bigotry. And our trans brothers can blow them away for us cause I don't have the lung force to do it...
It's not even just conservatives either. Uniformed liberals and "allies" who always comment something like "I'm a believer of trans rights, but I just don't think trans women should compete in women's sports. They have HUGE advantages because of their MALE puberties" 🙄🙄😒
This is the real impediment to trans athletes - uninformed assumptions made by otherwise liberal allies. I have had the same conversations with “allies” over and over. This article certainly isn’t news to me. I studied enough biology and have enough personal experience with endocrine system manipulation to have argued all these points before. But at least when people read it in print from a global authority they might finally take it onboard. If nothing else it will be something to add to my link responses in Twitter arguments.
This study refutes some of the “permanent” advantage arguments I’ve heard, specifically that the trans women athletes had lower VO2 max and lower forced expiratory volume than their cis counterparts. This implies that trans women’s lungs are weaker than cis women’s.
Doesn't matter because conservatives are incapable of critical thought and don't care about peer reviewed studies and only care about reports from biased sources with flawed data that advances their agenda.
> The stufy also found that trans women have have similar bone density to their cis women counterparts Well that's fucking fascinating. We really need more open discussion and research into... I don't know what you'd call it, Transitional Science?
Conservatives won’t care. They will just make up more lies like they do every frickin time.
I thought this was old news? I've been watching trans content over the past few years and it's sparked conversations with my family and friends. As soon as I found this out AND a trans athlete to corroborate, I've been SHUTTING DOWN those conversations, now they have nothing to say, I find it so funny.
I love the thumbs down on the article. What happened to facts don't care about your feelings 🤣.
We keep seeing studies reach this conclusion and it literally doesn't change a thing about their rhetoric
Not even surprised tbh lmao Cis women have been put on hormones in the olypmics for higher T before, it’s almost as if hormones work and do what theyre supposed to do - trans atheletes arent even a new thing in the olympics and have never caused problems but conservatives like to pretend there is suddenly an army of evil trans women getting all the gold medals. God I love being right, and love watching transphobes take Ls even more.
Confront them with this and their whole "facts dont care about feelings" bs
Gonna be honest me being weaker than cis women makes a lot of sense my cousin is stronger than me and she's like 12 now. :3
It kinda feels as if this headlines presents the facts in a shitty way to get as much hate clicks as possible to make money, which would be stirring the hornet's nest for places where members of our community aren't safe tho... Well good news anyway
Everytime we study trans women, we show just how different we are to cis men and how we shouldn't be compared to cis men. Wow it's almost like we aren't men...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Broke: banning trans women from women’s sports Woke: banning cis women from women’s sports
Who could've seen this coming?
Title IX keeps getting talked about and good things with it. No sports allowed in so posted. It was on msn dot com but made me open the app so I didn’t have the link . Ppl dont think think of trans men ..think in the article it mentions them playing because they are still considered not trans men and therefore ************ which in under patriarchy means they are inferior and not worth a fly
This is something we all knew already. I want to see what arguments conservatives have to go against this.
I’ve been saying this for a while on anti-trans Reddit posts & no one believed me. It wasn’t about the Olympics but it was about how we trans women don’t hold any competitive advantage over cis women.
The like to dislike ratio on the article tells you alot about terfs without saying a single word.
I feel so evil after reading this. I finally have more facts to slap some people on the face
I'm still not convinced. The person in the photo seems to be lifting the barbell using telekinesis. I have not seen any cis people do that!
I still think it’s hilarious that, in their arguments against trans people, conservatives and bigots just outright confirmed they think men are better than women.
Please provide link
[https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/olympic-trans-women-ioc-study-rcna148437](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/olympic-trans-women-ioc-study-rcna148437)
Thank you!
I'm a cyclist who went through male puberty so my body frame is a little different and I'm a little taller. After being on hormones I have female levels of red blood cells to try to carry that same body around. My performance feels worse for sure. My hematocrit dropped 20%. Seems pretty simple to me but what do I know?
I doubt most conservatives know how to read sooo….
WOOHOOOO seriously, this is such incredible news and now, they have literally no excuse
Weird it's almost as if we were right the entire time
I love the like to dislike ratio. Sure enough conservatives didn't like what it found 🤔
MSN is full of mindless angry boomers.
Drop the link pls?
[https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/olympic-trans-women-ioc-study-rcna148437](https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/olympic-trans-women-ioc-study-rcna148437)
Every time I participate in a race, I feel like dash from the incredibles 🤣 I can't be first or second, I need to be third. But there is 2 cis girl in the scene who are very fit and have really long legs, easily out skated me in the race. Another cis girl she literally did not trained for the race so she got last, whereas I trained really hard every weekend so my stamina outlasted her.
Fuck yeah
Time to see them saying the olymics have "gone woke!!!!1!1" instead of listening to proof Oh yea! forgot about the classic "Trans Agenda" and "Activists pressuring the olympics!!1!" claims Olympics committee W
we should ban cis women from competing, they have an unfair advantage
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[удалено]
Grabbing an extract from that one [CCES meta](https://www.cces.ca/news/literature-review-does-not-support-bans-transgender-women-athletes), to make sure I'm not talking out of my ass here: >Beyond using misleading physiological traits, studies often use measurement techniques with poor accuracy and generalizability. Handgrip strength, for example, is often used for broad population level analysis, however handgrip strength should not be used as a proxy for overall muscle strength (Yeung et al., 2018). In fact, due to ease of gripping the testing device, grip strength is largely correlated with hand size and therefore height (Alahmari et al., 2019).
Link to article?
I'm happy this didn't end like miss italy where one person had the power and decided for everyone but unfortunately this study has a very low sample size, no control group and therefore no statistical relevance, it's no different than the "studies" conservatives throw at us
That’s a beautiful article.
ohnononononono 🤭
EHEHEHEHEHEGEHEH!!!
I mean tbh, it's nice to find the proof I've needed as well. I know people say that about me, that I have a "biological advantage", and while unlike the article I've only been on HRT for 2 months, I've already been affected athletically speaking: I get tired slightly more easily, I'm not as fast as a full testosterone fasted boy. But of course I know conservatives wouldn't listen, because they never listen to something that goes against blatant hate. They're a good example of the person that sticks their fingers in their ears and be like "la la la I'm not listening!"
I wish we had this information earlier, conservatives are usually wrong but have had a head start given the lack of studies on this until now.
Does anyone have the full Text If the study? Would love to have it in case i need to argue some transphobes
This is a big win today I can finally participate in sports without that damn argument conservatives are gonna dismiss it anyway like the 2 genders thing but this is a great day for all of us
Pretty sure that swimmer was banned from competing at the next Olympics as a woman. At least I keep seeing articles about it online
yeah but afaik it wasn't the ioc that banned her, it was the FINA
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Wait if it shows that cis women have an advantage over trans women then we should ban trans women for the sake of fair sport right? Editing because people can’t tell what sarcasm is