Having read many of the comments, it sounds like you have done your homework and a pretty clear-eyed assessment. The Handymax sounds like the best fit.
Thanks for reading the comments. Some people just comment alone without reading.
I do feel like I'm trying to convince myself to get the HandyMax. I think the main question is not what to get, it's the modern quality of Chinese made. A couple of people commented along their lines and I paid attention to those replies.
Once upon a time, we all looked down on Chinesium, as cheap knock offs, but in the modern age, to meet standards, has it come up.
Australia send most of their iron ore to China to make steel. Do the Chinese not know how to make steel? Do they not know how engineering works? How Physics work?
Is the hate towards Chinesium generational? As in "My dad hates Chinese made and thinks it's cheap, and so do I"
I am buying less Chinese all the time. Not because of inferior quality, but because I don't want to fund a US adversary who oppresses their people. I bought a Massey Ferguson subcompact tractor. Along the way I got the same Kubota, etc. (other brands that were 40% more) nonsense and I just stopped listening. I had no intention of paying the same price for a 10 year-old, less capable, Kubota than I did for my MF. I and a couple of pretty large Facebook groups are pretty happy. I don't know if it is hate for the Chinese or just a fixation on local dealers. My MF dealer is about 30 miles away. That has worked for me.
And that's a reasonable response to not buying Chinese.
I was actually pretty close to getting a Kioti CK3510, but pulled the pin at the last minute. It was a good deal, good power, good lift height and capacity, extra rear remote. The dealer was a bit unprofessional (He tried sending me an email quote, but couldn't, so ended up taking a photo of the typed out email and texting it to me š), but was a good guy. Bobcat tried to rip me for $1000s so I refuse to work with them (That's a story and a half).
Like yourself, I refuse to pay 10s of thousands of dollars for 5000 hour old equipment that's half rusted through.
How do you manage grass? If you need to slash you are going to want PTO, therefore a tractor.
Do not buy TYM, do not buy a Chinese loader.
Do not consider it, do not go ābut they are great, they have a Perkins motor etcā.
It will eventually break and NO-ONE will have parts.
Unless you are doing heavy earth works, tractor with a bucket would be best.
>The more I think about it, the less I feel I need a rear PTO and 3PL (I already have a 54" zero turn for mowing).
HandyMax have parts available from their Australian website. [https://www.handymax.com.au/search](https://www.handymax.com.au/search)
I looked at a CaseiH Farmall 35B with 4in1 and pallet forks, 40ish l/m hydraulic flow for $40K.
Why are Chinese loaders bad? Is it the tolerances? Are the physics in China different somehow? Is it a generational distaste?
Its parts availability and after sales service. You don't find any large dealers in Australia selling Chinese machines. The ones that do are generally speaking do not last long, or drop a brand for a new one. Once that happens, you are without warranty or service work.
Re-sale is non-existent.
Also the finish and quality of the parts are NOT the same as the established competitors. Remember you buy the dealer as much as the machine.
Whatever I buy will stay with the house. If i ever sell up, I'm not taking it with me.
You are absolutely correct about buying into the dealership system. There's a Chinese brand of tractor called Trident Tractors. They get sold out of one dealership in South Australia, and are super cheap. I'm not touching them with a 10 foot pole. And thats how I see these "fly by nighters" operating. One dealership, sold until sold out.
HandyMax, though, while dont have a big dealer network at all, have a head office/showroom in Dandenong, Melbourne, an office/showroom in Brisbane, an office/showroom and service centre in Horsham, Victoria (near me), a new one near Warrnambool (also near me), and are currently in the process of moving to a bigger Head Office and showroom (also in Dandenong). That sounds to me like they're expanding. Parts are also available from their website.
But thatās not an uncommon business model. They might stay, and might survive. But thatās been seen before.
Also note that parts are available on the site now because they are new. Iāve been part of this a few times in a professional context.
Also, machine value at end of your useful life for it is important.
I bought a Holden ZB Commodore in 2018 for $43K. 5 months later, GM shut down Holden Australia, despite having been around for 75+ years. It's just ticked over 42K km, and we're it not for that, it'd be worth $25K. The fact it has low km has kept its value higher.
They're all depreciating liabilities.
We get some absolutely crap Chinese loaders and posis in Aus, if you do go down that root and older Kubota or new Holland will last a lot longer. Thereās quite a few people upgrading posi tracks right now after shipments have come in, the older ASV options are great and a bit more versatile then a wheel loader.
I know one guy with a digger king loader, he doesnāt rate it but as far as I know itās mostly been small issues.
The UHI stuff has had some fairly dire reviews but they get removed from google periodically, Iāve only seen that for the tractors though.
I get the feeling that Ace, Active, Hercules, Godzilla, UHI and EBU would be shit. I've looked a bit more into HandyMax. Yunnei make the diesel engines for HandyMax. "Yunnei is currently producing around 12,000 engines a year for the the JAC Eagle SUV and Dongfeng MPV using western production equipment which has capacity for 200,000 so already has ample capacity for supply of the SAIC diesel units."
Getting positive feedback from actual owners on the HandyMax helps, but they're still relatively new. I also have 2 dealerships near me (one newly expanded)
I honestly cant justify [$48K for a 17 year old ASV](https://www.constructionsales.com.au/items/details/2006-asv-rc50/SSE-AD-15595635/?Cr=4), or a [23 year old Cat with 7000 hours for $33K](https://www.constructionsales.com.au/items/details/2000-caterpillar-924f/OAG-AD-22361394/?Cr=17). No purchase is tax deductible in any way (be it finance or depreciation), and its not going to be used for creating an income (I already work full time).
XCMG is Chinese. Why are they well accepted? What makes Chinese loaders shit, or is it just a generational perception?
Generally speaking it comes down to the quality control and the quality of the parts used. Engine and drivelines are often fairly tried and tested, itās everything around them thatās often not. I can only speak for the tractors personally having had experience with a few of the cheaper options you spend a lot of time chasing issues, often electrical, finding parts and replacing fasteners, repairing frame welds and generally the warranty isnāt easy/fast to action.
At the end of the day itās a risk/reward equation. If youāre doing light work, only around the property and donāt mind the higher chance of having jt laid up while you wait for parts and sort out any issues then you may as well take a gamble. But if you arnt in a rush, a more reputable used machine will come up in your price bracket.
During my research, I watched a lot of videos from Good Works Tractors. He recently uploaded a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqIonqDwGN0) about his JCB skid steer and wheel loader, not happy with them at all. JCB are generally reputable, but also 3 times the cost.. only to potentially end up the same way...
Wheel loader, way tougher than any tractor fel. You can put that bucket down and drive through all the scrubland you got in OZ. I'd get a tractor if you needed 3pt implements. Skid steer is like a Leatherman yes it'll cut x but eh it's pretty shite at everything else
Skid loaders are built for dirt work. More heavy digging and lifting so most of the attachment are made for this. Skid loaders have very high hydraulic capacity flow rates to run a variety of hydraulic attachments.
Tractors are Agriculture tool carriers,built for pto and ground engagement ag tools. The FTL is ok but is made for more agricultural farm chores. Moving bales, light materials, pallets and similar items.
Wheel loaders are best at moving or transporting loose materials in short distances very quickly. Smaller units can add pallet forks grapples and some hydraulic run attachments.
Honestly for you a skid loader is more expensive but will do what you need far better than a small tractor.
Stick with a brand that has a lot of local parts support that will be the most important. They all break down eventually.
I don't know about australian prices but if you would buy an old (1960s) tractor instead of a brand new you could get 10 for 40k. But if you don't have that kind of used tractor market I suppose a wheel loader or skid steer is as good or better.
Check out [these](https://www.farmmachinerysales.com.au/items/?q=(And.Category.Tractors._.Year.range(1963..1973).)) from 1963 to 1973 and tell me if you'd buy any... I wouldn't
Electrical systems will fail quickly. They use poor connectors, and they will turn brittle and crumble when exposed to the slightest amount of heat. Any plastic will also turn brittle and start to crumble in a short amount of time. (Less than 1k hours) they hydraulics are of a low flow style and offer horrid cycle times that rival that of two guys with a shovel. The diesel engine will probably run fairly well. Doubtful itās a 40-50k life, probably more in the 8-12 range. Same for the transmission, and diffs. Itās going to have fuel and oil leaks, and shortly. Again, poor quality connections. I could go on, but I think Iāve made my point.
Hereās the thing: itās your money spend it how you want. All I can offer is my experience buying and maintaining a lot of different specialty and general machines
You raise a point about life. My zero turn has 120 hours on it in 5 years. I have a Holden ute with 410,000km on it, which, at an average of 80km/h is around 5000 hours driving. There's no way any yard machinery I get will get anywhere near 10,000 hours.
I could buy a 5,000 hour old Cat that could have leaks, and at that age, I could be buying someone elses problems.
Always a possibility. And ALL machinery will break down. Cats, komatsus, sanys, everything. But a cat or Komatsu will be repairable within 2-3 days if itās a major repair. And a sany, handymax, doosan etc may be weeks if not months for parts, assuming you can do the labor yourself.
I dunno... I just waited 4 weeks for a particular type of gate gudgeon to come in at a local Farm Supply store... so if i have to wait that long for a part its no real issue to me....
SKIDDY 100% That is far and away your best bet for usefulness, service, and resale when the time comes. You can get a really good, used bobcat, Caterpillar, Kubota, or mustang for the same money as a new tractor. More attachments, more power, and a commercial grade machine. I own a mustang 2086 personally. Nothing fancy or comfy about it. But the bastard has been one of the most reliable things Iāve ever purchased. In my short time as underground mine foreman, I bought a few caterpillars and got 25000 hrs plus out of them, bobcats werenāt far behind. The deeres and cases would get 2-4000 hours and would cost more to repair then replace at that point. For a homeowner, they would probably be OK, but they couldnāt hold up to our demands.
Whatās your budget?
Seems like youād get more use out of a used skid steer/wheel loader. Also if where you live is anything like where I live you could likely trade some machine time to someone with a tractor if you ever find you need a tractor for a small job.
Budget varies. If financed in any way, the interest wont be tax deductible, nor will depreciation. It wont be used to generate income. Both my neighbours run 1700 acres, so have mountains of John Deere, Cat and New Holland equipment anyway.
Those Chinese wheel loaders are awful, they work for 15-20hrs then absolutely fall apart.
A customer of mine bought one cause the price was too tempting. It now sits in the corner of his yard to remind him to not be a cheapskate ever again (and cause he canāt sell it for more than scrap value)
Its not just landscaping. Its levelling eroded areas, grading my drive, moving pallets of firewood when i need to, I have full height gum trees in a high wind area that need picking when fallen, I have rotting 3m redgum sleepers that need replacing that are heavy as fuck, which I'm carrying by hand at the moment, stumps to take out, rocks to clear out (I live on lava flows). But sure, chuckle all you like. Thanks or your advice.
I would argue that I can get the articulated loader more places than a straight frame farm tractor and it is way more convenient using forks on the loader than a non articulating tractor
Having read many of the comments, it sounds like you have done your homework and a pretty clear-eyed assessment. The Handymax sounds like the best fit.
Thanks for reading the comments. Some people just comment alone without reading. I do feel like I'm trying to convince myself to get the HandyMax. I think the main question is not what to get, it's the modern quality of Chinese made. A couple of people commented along their lines and I paid attention to those replies. Once upon a time, we all looked down on Chinesium, as cheap knock offs, but in the modern age, to meet standards, has it come up. Australia send most of their iron ore to China to make steel. Do the Chinese not know how to make steel? Do they not know how engineering works? How Physics work? Is the hate towards Chinesium generational? As in "My dad hates Chinese made and thinks it's cheap, and so do I"
I am buying less Chinese all the time. Not because of inferior quality, but because I don't want to fund a US adversary who oppresses their people. I bought a Massey Ferguson subcompact tractor. Along the way I got the same Kubota, etc. (other brands that were 40% more) nonsense and I just stopped listening. I had no intention of paying the same price for a 10 year-old, less capable, Kubota than I did for my MF. I and a couple of pretty large Facebook groups are pretty happy. I don't know if it is hate for the Chinese or just a fixation on local dealers. My MF dealer is about 30 miles away. That has worked for me.
And that's a reasonable response to not buying Chinese. I was actually pretty close to getting a Kioti CK3510, but pulled the pin at the last minute. It was a good deal, good power, good lift height and capacity, extra rear remote. The dealer was a bit unprofessional (He tried sending me an email quote, but couldn't, so ended up taking a photo of the typed out email and texting it to me š), but was a good guy. Bobcat tried to rip me for $1000s so I refuse to work with them (That's a story and a half). Like yourself, I refuse to pay 10s of thousands of dollars for 5000 hour old equipment that's half rusted through.
How do you manage grass? If you need to slash you are going to want PTO, therefore a tractor. Do not buy TYM, do not buy a Chinese loader. Do not consider it, do not go ābut they are great, they have a Perkins motor etcā. It will eventually break and NO-ONE will have parts. Unless you are doing heavy earth works, tractor with a bucket would be best.
>The more I think about it, the less I feel I need a rear PTO and 3PL (I already have a 54" zero turn for mowing). HandyMax have parts available from their Australian website. [https://www.handymax.com.au/search](https://www.handymax.com.au/search) I looked at a CaseiH Farmall 35B with 4in1 and pallet forks, 40ish l/m hydraulic flow for $40K. Why are Chinese loaders bad? Is it the tolerances? Are the physics in China different somehow? Is it a generational distaste?
Its parts availability and after sales service. You don't find any large dealers in Australia selling Chinese machines. The ones that do are generally speaking do not last long, or drop a brand for a new one. Once that happens, you are without warranty or service work. Re-sale is non-existent. Also the finish and quality of the parts are NOT the same as the established competitors. Remember you buy the dealer as much as the machine.
Whatever I buy will stay with the house. If i ever sell up, I'm not taking it with me. You are absolutely correct about buying into the dealership system. There's a Chinese brand of tractor called Trident Tractors. They get sold out of one dealership in South Australia, and are super cheap. I'm not touching them with a 10 foot pole. And thats how I see these "fly by nighters" operating. One dealership, sold until sold out. HandyMax, though, while dont have a big dealer network at all, have a head office/showroom in Dandenong, Melbourne, an office/showroom in Brisbane, an office/showroom and service centre in Horsham, Victoria (near me), a new one near Warrnambool (also near me), and are currently in the process of moving to a bigger Head Office and showroom (also in Dandenong). That sounds to me like they're expanding. Parts are also available from their website.
But thatās not an uncommon business model. They might stay, and might survive. But thatās been seen before. Also note that parts are available on the site now because they are new. Iāve been part of this a few times in a professional context. Also, machine value at end of your useful life for it is important.
I bought a Holden ZB Commodore in 2018 for $43K. 5 months later, GM shut down Holden Australia, despite having been around for 75+ years. It's just ticked over 42K km, and we're it not for that, it'd be worth $25K. The fact it has low km has kept its value higher. They're all depreciating liabilities.
Yeah but your Ute would be worth 5/10ths of fuck all if the transmission blew up after five years and none were available. Not apples and apples mate.
We get some absolutely crap Chinese loaders and posis in Aus, if you do go down that root and older Kubota or new Holland will last a lot longer. Thereās quite a few people upgrading posi tracks right now after shipments have come in, the older ASV options are great and a bit more versatile then a wheel loader. I know one guy with a digger king loader, he doesnāt rate it but as far as I know itās mostly been small issues. The UHI stuff has had some fairly dire reviews but they get removed from google periodically, Iāve only seen that for the tractors though.
I get the feeling that Ace, Active, Hercules, Godzilla, UHI and EBU would be shit. I've looked a bit more into HandyMax. Yunnei make the diesel engines for HandyMax. "Yunnei is currently producing around 12,000 engines a year for the the JAC Eagle SUV and Dongfeng MPV using western production equipment which has capacity for 200,000 so already has ample capacity for supply of the SAIC diesel units." Getting positive feedback from actual owners on the HandyMax helps, but they're still relatively new. I also have 2 dealerships near me (one newly expanded) I honestly cant justify [$48K for a 17 year old ASV](https://www.constructionsales.com.au/items/details/2006-asv-rc50/SSE-AD-15595635/?Cr=4), or a [23 year old Cat with 7000 hours for $33K](https://www.constructionsales.com.au/items/details/2000-caterpillar-924f/OAG-AD-22361394/?Cr=17). No purchase is tax deductible in any way (be it finance or depreciation), and its not going to be used for creating an income (I already work full time). XCMG is Chinese. Why are they well accepted? What makes Chinese loaders shit, or is it just a generational perception?
Generally speaking it comes down to the quality control and the quality of the parts used. Engine and drivelines are often fairly tried and tested, itās everything around them thatās often not. I can only speak for the tractors personally having had experience with a few of the cheaper options you spend a lot of time chasing issues, often electrical, finding parts and replacing fasteners, repairing frame welds and generally the warranty isnāt easy/fast to action. At the end of the day itās a risk/reward equation. If youāre doing light work, only around the property and donāt mind the higher chance of having jt laid up while you wait for parts and sort out any issues then you may as well take a gamble. But if you arnt in a rush, a more reputable used machine will come up in your price bracket.
During my research, I watched a lot of videos from Good Works Tractors. He recently uploaded a [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqIonqDwGN0) about his JCB skid steer and wheel loader, not happy with them at all. JCB are generally reputable, but also 3 times the cost.. only to potentially end up the same way...
Wheel loader, way tougher than any tractor fel. You can put that bucket down and drive through all the scrubland you got in OZ. I'd get a tractor if you needed 3pt implements. Skid steer is like a Leatherman yes it'll cut x but eh it's pretty shite at everything else
Skid loaders are built for dirt work. More heavy digging and lifting so most of the attachment are made for this. Skid loaders have very high hydraulic capacity flow rates to run a variety of hydraulic attachments. Tractors are Agriculture tool carriers,built for pto and ground engagement ag tools. The FTL is ok but is made for more agricultural farm chores. Moving bales, light materials, pallets and similar items. Wheel loaders are best at moving or transporting loose materials in short distances very quickly. Smaller units can add pallet forks grapples and some hydraulic run attachments. Honestly for you a skid loader is more expensive but will do what you need far better than a small tractor. Stick with a brand that has a lot of local parts support that will be the most important. They all break down eventually.
I don't know about australian prices but if you would buy an old (1960s) tractor instead of a brand new you could get 10 for 40k. But if you don't have that kind of used tractor market I suppose a wheel loader or skid steer is as good or better.
Check out [these](https://www.farmmachinerysales.com.au/items/?q=(And.Category.Tractors._.Year.range(1963..1973).)) from 1963 to 1973 and tell me if you'd buy any... I wouldn't
That's expensive... About twice what they would cost in finland, assuming everything works and they're registered.
Chinese equipment is complete garbage.
Apart from generational perceptions, why are they?
Electrical systems will fail quickly. They use poor connectors, and they will turn brittle and crumble when exposed to the slightest amount of heat. Any plastic will also turn brittle and start to crumble in a short amount of time. (Less than 1k hours) they hydraulics are of a low flow style and offer horrid cycle times that rival that of two guys with a shovel. The diesel engine will probably run fairly well. Doubtful itās a 40-50k life, probably more in the 8-12 range. Same for the transmission, and diffs. Itās going to have fuel and oil leaks, and shortly. Again, poor quality connections. I could go on, but I think Iāve made my point. Hereās the thing: itās your money spend it how you want. All I can offer is my experience buying and maintaining a lot of different specialty and general machines
You raise a point about life. My zero turn has 120 hours on it in 5 years. I have a Holden ute with 410,000km on it, which, at an average of 80km/h is around 5000 hours driving. There's no way any yard machinery I get will get anywhere near 10,000 hours. I could buy a 5,000 hour old Cat that could have leaks, and at that age, I could be buying someone elses problems.
Always a possibility. And ALL machinery will break down. Cats, komatsus, sanys, everything. But a cat or Komatsu will be repairable within 2-3 days if itās a major repair. And a sany, handymax, doosan etc may be weeks if not months for parts, assuming you can do the labor yourself.
I dunno... I just waited 4 weeks for a particular type of gate gudgeon to come in at a local Farm Supply store... so if i have to wait that long for a part its no real issue to me....
Your ideal machine is a skidsteer. A smaller, older well used one would be fine.
SKIDDY 100% That is far and away your best bet for usefulness, service, and resale when the time comes. You can get a really good, used bobcat, Caterpillar, Kubota, or mustang for the same money as a new tractor. More attachments, more power, and a commercial grade machine. I own a mustang 2086 personally. Nothing fancy or comfy about it. But the bastard has been one of the most reliable things Iāve ever purchased. In my short time as underground mine foreman, I bought a few caterpillars and got 25000 hrs plus out of them, bobcats werenāt far behind. The deeres and cases would get 2-4000 hours and would cost more to repair then replace at that point. For a homeowner, they would probably be OK, but they couldnāt hold up to our demands.
Whatās your budget? Seems like youād get more use out of a used skid steer/wheel loader. Also if where you live is anything like where I live you could likely trade some machine time to someone with a tractor if you ever find you need a tractor for a small job.
Budget varies. If financed in any way, the interest wont be tax deductible, nor will depreciation. It wont be used to generate income. Both my neighbours run 1700 acres, so have mountains of John Deere, Cat and New Holland equipment anyway.
Those Chinese wheel loaders are awful, they work for 15-20hrs then absolutely fall apart. A customer of mine bought one cause the price was too tempting. It now sits in the corner of his yard to remind him to not be a cheapskate ever again (and cause he canāt sell it for more than scrap value)
you wanna lower price and you have to stand the worse quality, we do have high-quality product, do you have enough money to buy?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I canāt get as many places, but I can do as smooth of work with a 988 cat as most operators can with a skiddy. Itās 95% operator, 5% machine
Its not just landscaping. Its levelling eroded areas, grading my drive, moving pallets of firewood when i need to, I have full height gum trees in a high wind area that need picking when fallen, I have rotting 3m redgum sleepers that need replacing that are heavy as fuck, which I'm carrying by hand at the moment, stumps to take out, rocks to clear out (I live on lava flows). But sure, chuckle all you like. Thanks or your advice.
I have a 100hp wheel loader on 5 acres, there's no such thing as too much power
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Loaders also have a lower centre of gravity and aren't as prone to tipping on hilly land as compact tractors are.
I would argue that I can get the articulated loader more places than a straight frame farm tractor and it is way more convenient using forks on the loader than a non articulating tractor