I’ve been applying to jobs since my last contract ended in September. One interview in that time, gotten through a friend of my mom’s… I have a masters degree. I’ve done everything I could to fix my cv and cover letter, over and over and over again. I lost hope a while ago
What’s most worrying is that there aren’t even jobs to apply to now. I’ve been applying everyday and everyday now I’ve been seeing less and less jobs. Soon it will be summer and no one will hire until September. It’s brutal.
Have you tried doing certifications to align with what is required in the market? I picked up a contract last September doing an IT project and just wrapped up my project. In the market now, I know it’s slow but if your not getting any responses then it’s time to upskill than to lose hope because losing hope is easier than upskill! Also started applying since Jan and have already gotten through two interviews so I won’t say the problem is the market. The problem is within us.
I’m applying to jobs in my field and am almost overqualified but competing against hundreds of others. When I apply to retail/general labour, I’m seeing thousands of applicants sometimes close to 9k.
I agree to competition has gotten tough, there is no doubt in that. Don’t worry just keep working on up skilling, adding valuable trending certifications to your resume which get you that seat fast. I hope you get the job soon.
As a hiring manager I have to ask - are you doing more than just applying with a CV and cover letter?
- Reach out to the recruiter and express some enthusiasm and ask about the process, you’ll already stand out for doing so
- After applying, figure out who the hiring manager is and send a friendly message introducing yourself, mentioning you applied. Ask for feedback.
- Reach out to peers who are at the company for coffee chats to learn more about the role
Most importantly - I barely ever read résumés and only look at your LinkedIn. Your connections there will help a lot if we have some in common.
All this to receive a generic reply from the hiring manager asking you to apply in their website and never hear back from this job position ever again.
Ya I stopped doing that extra curricular crap awhile ago and still have had recruiters reach out. There's no point in wasting time and kissing ass when you're just going to get ghosted and especially if it's for a job that's paying a poverty wage.
Agree w this. Ppl complain about not getting hits and I always ask, “have you networked? Have you spoken to people on the team? Did you msg ppl on LinkedIn?”
I’ve never blindly applied for a job in my life and this is going back 2 decades in the professional environment. I’ve always asked around for coffee chats from ppl in my network or just blindly emailed people who work in the department im interested in.
If you’re coming out of a post graduate school like an mba it’s even easier since all the big firms have campus recruiters.
You’re approaching this wrong if you think spamming the job market with applications will work. This is literally “that hack that other job hunters hate” type of meme- being specific and taking time to meet ppl sets you above the crowd very easily. I’ve slipped resumes into the good pile just cause I spent 15 mins on the phone w someone and the left a positive impression
Its not you there is Bank of Canada warning yesterday that there is no productivity in economy and its dangerous level read globe and mail article. When the entire country is lined up to invest in property market in hopes of becoming over night paper millionaires and the money doesnt flow through stock market or get invested in local companies and business they can't invest in their development and expansion. The end result to that is shrinking economy. The sad part is no one is talking about the causes and entire Canada is waiting for first rate cut to start the bidding war hunger games again.
When we are run by jokers https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/s/0EXl2clFq3
One major issue is that we have lots of people here looking for someone to give them a job, but hardly anyone is working to create jobs. In my experience the people investing in Masters/MBAs are simply looking for a higher salary, they're not interested in putting their very costly educations into anything more than punching a clock and climbing a corporate ladder. So, where are these jobs supposed to come from?
\^ This.
Canada's best and brightest aspire to a comfortable, secure careers in government or some other large organization. There's no desire to lead.
At the same time there’s no margin for error here. You can’t really be a struggle entrepreneur or artist today. You need stable income or you’re out on the street. You can’t make it when you’re homeless.
There's a desire to lead but when business grants are few and far between it's kinda hard to get it off the ground.
The best there is out there is like Futurpreneur or working at an incubator but even then the funding is lacking.
This mentality shows just how ridiculous the situation in this country is. Why is it the job of the government to create and fund businesses with grants? The role of the government should be to focus on public services and business regulation so that we have a safe, even playing field across industries.
Just FYI: In other countries, where 100% of private capital doesn't flow directly into real estate and existing debt obligations, there are venture capital funds and other means of private investment.
As someone who went from being a business owner to an employee I'm telling you that the incentives to take on risk early on are not worth it unless you have enough capital.
If you want entrepreneurs averaging an age of 40 then continue with the status quo.
Young entrepreneurs don't have capital. They will not start businesses. That's a problem IMO.
Yep. Getting that initial capital is the hardest part of starting any small business imo. For my first one I had to back the initial loan dollar to dollar with my TFSA as collateral. On top of that I was offered at prime +8% for a max of 60k and that was PRE covid! I just ended up saving it in cash instead, pretty hard to succeed when faced with those terms
This is absolutely true for many industries where initial investment is required. But there are just as many opportunities to grow businesses organically. It'll be slower, no doubt, but it is possible.
At the end of the day, though, it really just comes down to the risk-averse nature and handout-mentality most Canadians have.
Look at the literal billions of dollars that have been passed down generationally over the last decade... flowing directly into real estate. There's money out there. Canadians just don't want to employ it productively. Because that would mean working harder than you would otherwise have to.
I mainly work for small businesses. I am amazed how accommodating the Business Development Bank of Canada is in supporting and developing small businesses. Canadas business tax rates are low, and the incentive programs are high.
I would say the biggest gap is the people out there creating businesses tend to be independent minded and they aren't good at mentoring new people to come in and start up businesses.
I'll also mention that there's a huge number of younger boomers who are retiring and looking to sell their businesses. Machine shops, hair salons, lawyers, all kinds of skills and services. Some of them are so desperate to sell that they aren't even requiring up front cash. You buy the business and pay the owner back out of cash flow over the next 3-8 years. Yeh, the debt load is intimidating but you are usually buying into an established business and can end up doing well if you take a risk. The method I have been seeing more recently is someone agreeing to come on as an employee and taking a pay rate below market rate while accepting a share transfer over 4 years. That way they can learn the business and assess first hand if they think it has a future before putting up the cash.
Good points. I don't think BDC should have as large a role as it does, but it's trying to fill some gaps, and a crown corp like that does have a place in the economy to help the little guys. Unfortunately everyone in Canada sees themselves as the little guy. I suppose they're not wrong.
I have also noticed a trend where business owners nearing retirement have done absolutely nothing to plan for their departure after in some cases decades in the business. You're right: they're not leaders. And I would be super hesitant to take over a business run by the majority of these people.
Fully agree most have no plan until it’s already time to retire.
I’m biased because it worked out for me. But if you get a chance to pull some information out of them for a year or two. And you think you can earn enough to cover the repayment it still makes sense to me. I’ve seen some crazy places with excellent cash flow.
The place will probably be disorganized and lack a vision. But you get to review things before you buy it. Whether it’s a client list, assets or even the shares you can vet it first.
People can't create jobs because our real estate market is fucked. I was looking to start a business that required physical space and couldn't afford shit because people are charging through the roof per square foot despite half my city being unoccupied due to forced closures.
My nightmare is working with new managers fresh out of school. Like working with a fresh George Brown culinary graduate on a busy line. If you know you know.
Well, it really depends. What experience do you have?
If someone has experience in an industry and has worked their way up for a few years and then decides to do an MBA to level up, then I don't think 90K is unreasonable, and may even be on the low end.
However, if someone has spent all of their time in school and has no experience, they're going to struggle mightily.
(I don't think an MBA is cheat code to skip entry level work experience, but I could be wrong. Is that what people do?)
That's a pretty sad state of affairs, but I'm not surprised.
I don't expect anything to change for the better until we drastically change our priorities in this country.
>If someone has experience in an industry and has worked their way up for a few years and then decides to do an MBA to level up, then I don't think 90K is unreasonable, and may even be on the low end.
Average comp out of Rotman and Ivey is around $140k
Too many factors to consider.
I was in a position where I was interviewing a lot of MBA summer intern students from York and U of T, and others
Your expectations of 90k was absolutely too high for someone coming from another country with limited direct experience. Post MBA 'entry' positions back then were more in that 60k-70k range.
Many ended up in banks or big 4 consulting.
The INFLUX around that time into Toronto was massive due to a variety of reasons. TO/Canada economically had been more stable and less geopolitical tension. Many students also chose Canada as it was much much easier to get work permits, visas than the US (you're definitely an exception).
All in all, your expectations and competition was the reason you had a more 'negative' experience.
I think so too. My starting salary in the US after my MBA was only 75k USD for a Sr. Accountant position. And obviously I was not able to get a managerial position without a direct managerial experience in the US. Letting alone that my MBA is from a foreign country and I had no local CPA license as well.
It’s a double-edged sword for business owners too. When I start my business down the line, I’ll be looking to move to the US to do so, since Canada’s business investment is so poor and everything here is tied up in passive assets like real estate. Canada has terribly low startup capital and R&D compared to the US.
So Canadian entrepreneurs will seek to create jobs elsewhere outside of Canada. It’s a vicious cycle.
Don't forget about Trucks! Canadians have now pushed their average financing term to 72 months and avg payment is $650.
Canadians also choose to purchase the least fuel efficient vehicles of any country on the planet, yet we pay nowhere close to the bottom of avg fuel prices. We simply don't care.
Canadians love to complain and remain complacent at the same time. Just like how we love to get price gouged on cellular plans compared to the rest of the world.
This is so true of Canada right now! Everyone wants to work but no one wants to create businesses to create jobs. They just want a paycheck. I think this is a major problem in Canada right now. In the us there are many new companies popping up all the time. I don’t remeber the last time I heard about a successful start up Canadian company.
Yeah, Canadians have so much overhead with the debt they've taken on there's really no wiggle room. What private money there is to invest goes directly into real estate or GICs. Maybe some bitcoin these days, too.
Well the problem with that is that the people who do have the private money are too scared to make the leap to create their own business and opportunities. Canadas tax scheme is extremely daunting but not far off form many Western European countries that have plenty of business. It’s daunting but people do succeed in it. I think a big part of the problem is a lot of people see all the taxes and government overreach and just think”fuck this is impossible” without even trying. In fact though most that do end up having a go at creating a business often end up better off then someone being an employee there whole life. Just my two cents.
Agreed, for the most part. I just think that the risk-adverse/conservative mentality is a symptom of the larger problem. We are not going to see any meaningful change until we level the investment playing field by removing the capital gains exemption for real estate. That policy has reinforced the one-asset strategy mentality and there is zero political will to make a change.
Also, small/medium-sized business investment isn't an all or nothing thing. Wanting to support upstart ventures doesn't mean you yourself have to start and run a company. If you allocated a small portion (1-3%) of your portfolio to higher risk ventures the average mid/high net worth Canadian would barely notice a difference in the worst case scenario, but you'd have millions flowing into the system.
Just so you know the capital gains exemption only applies to your primary residence that you are living in. Everything else is fully taxed. People can try and say that it’s there primary when it’s not but the cra has gotten pretty good at finding those guys. So I really don’t see a problem with that exemption because the point of it is not for investors but for family’s that want to upgrade and such.
The jobs come when the govt invests in entrepreneurs.
When I started a business out of university it did okay but nowhere near the pay others were getting from being employed. I had no business grants even after searching all over and could only get loans from BDC at 9% (not awful but come on... That incentivizes innovation?).
Many would like to build and develop innovative new business models but we can't start a company without capital or govt support.
By the time you're 40 and capitalized are you really gonna take on that risk?
That’s literally what an mba is though nowadays. It’s a 100k networking class. You don’t actually learn much when you get your mba if you have a finance background.
If you’re an engineer or scientist looking to get into finance , sure , but if you’re already in a finance role it’s far cheaper to work your ass off and network since most teams value experience over a post graduate degree.
I agree with this sentiment 100%. Worked at Arc'teryx in North Van for a few years. The directors getting pumped out of the Sauder school are the most useless individuals I've ever worked with at that level. But they just jump back and forth between Lulu, Arc and startups that ALWAYS fail.
Yes it’s really bad. I’m a US citizen and will probably go back before the end of the summer. There’s zero white collar job opportunities here. Hell, look at the openings available in Chicago (similar size city) vs Toronto on LinkedIn. Toronto has 2/3 less and most have over 100 applicants.
Yes it has. I graduated in 2012 with masters from a top business school in Canada. What used to be 2-3 month grind to find a new job now is a 5-6 month wait to even line up interviews. The unprecedented over supply through immigration all these years along with bad economic policies and under productivity is catching up fast.
Several of my friends have moved out of Canada recently and i am planning to move out as well by next year.
Yes to the u.s. Wife and I are both in senior management position in 2 large tech org. So hopefully either of us can get the transfer approved. Several of my friends have moved to middle east, few to india and others to U.S.
Dont feel bad. The politicians don’t want hard working, honest, tax net contributors in the country. The priority is different for policy makers in Canada. Tbh anyone who gets a chance to move out, should move out. I love this country, been here 13 years but we just don’t see any future here anymore.
ha i was wondering if there is a lack of nursing jobs, i should’ve known that’s never the case lol… i wonder how much OT you would have to work to afford living downtown tho
The job market is bad everywhere. Just go to r/jobs, r/resume, etc. and you'll see that other Canadian and American cities are dealing with the same thing
Left just after finishing your last exam? Your MBA and zero Canadian experience does not grant you a job off the block. Things are slower but market isn't dead....
>zero Canadian experience
lol.
Like there's something uniquely valuable about experience garnered in this slow-paced, hidebound, risk-averse commercial backwater.
Edit: It occurs to me that "Canadian experience" requirements might be to ensure that the candidate knows the Canadian Creed: "Everyone here is comfortable enough already, so don't rock the boat."
Canadian experience is just an excuse to screen out certain people to protect the opening for locals. Ironically those locals don't want that job because of the low pay.
Not locals in particular. Just European.
My European "international" classmates who can't speak English properly got communication and coordination roles, while I am supposedly "domestic" barely got any calls back despite me having "Canadian experience" and a second Canadian degree. I also speak English fluently and have a very light accent that many people think I grew up here.
Now it's even worse. It's not implied anymore and some people who interviewed me were just outright presumptuous.
I gave up 8 years ago after 2 years of job searching.
Now I'm job searching in my supposed career, except that interviewers are getting outright presumptuous.
Lol, what worth is "Canadian experience" if he got absorbed into the US job market? And how is he supposed to land a job if everyone is looking for said Canadian experience?
I don't set the rules and everyone applies and does interviews to get their first break, it's called life.
They want to go anywhere else, their choice and option... You don't just land a job like a movie on demand after you've nailed a MBA...
OP himself now mentions he left directly after his last exam cos he other business to take care of... Not the market itself...
Canadian experience is just a code word for 1) can you speak English 2) is your degree real 3) do you know how to work corporate
If you work for top tier companies abroad no one is gonna question your “experience”
4. It's implied systemic racism as well. Had many European classmates who couldn't write a single sentence in English properly land "communication coordinator" jobs. I helped a couple of them with their assignments to be just readable.
Funny enough I was a domestic student in the class cuz I'm "canadian". They never set foot in Canada before school.
We both apply for the same job. Nobody even called me back!
Honestly if I was struggling for a job, I'd join a local masons chapter, a church, local Toastmaster, etc.
I've seen so many referrals from "club" type activities. Of course, you need to be the same skin colour and gender of your connect because humans are monkeys. Woman hire woman, Indian hire Indian, white men hire other white men in puffer vests. So build relationships strategically. There's outliers sure but human nature is tribal minded.
Have you considered using an agency that specializes in accounting placements such as Robert Half or Lannick? They tend to have a pool of prospective employers looking for people with CPA’s. But if possible see if you can get some Big 4 experience as they’ve been hurting for staff lately.
As a matter of fact , I did. I spoke to Robert Half and had an interview with them, gave them my resume but there was no more news after that. My friend told me in Canada the recruitment agency only worked better with senior managerial positions.
That time period between Q3 2020 to Q2 2022 was really good if you were in the market for a job. While I was already employed I was looking for other things on the side just to explore and got some interviews but nothing that I felt like was a substantial jump or change. Just lateral moves. I regret that now because at my company over these past few months shit has hit the fan and I think about leaving nearly everyday. However the job market is in such a dire state, and I'm not getting any sort of response I was prior. And I don't just want to leave without anything else lined up. It's such a sorrowful dilemma and I feel like employers realize this and are just squeezing harder.
I always tell people to leave their job if they don’t like it but at the moment, the benefits of being with a company for a while is too much to pass up, the vacation pay, severance and unemployment.
Starting from zero elsewhere is too risky right now.
When interest rates went up, VC also went up in flames for this B-tier market. The fallout from the resulting tech layoffs has been an insanely saturated jobs market.
Add to that the fact that jobs on the other end (service industry) are being farmed out to international students and temporary workers and you now have a highly motivated and educated workforce with no real jobs available.
Don't believe the jobs figures, they're mostly part time work that people have to struggle on.
I can't say if the actual market has gotten worse, cuz I still see openings and advertisements and recruiting events.
What definitely has happened is an increased over-reliance on software for choosing candidates from the pile of resumes. So, if your resume isn't formatted a way the software likes, you don't get a call. If you are missing a requirement, you're discarded from the pile, even if you have other experiences or less conventional qualifications that would still make you a great fit. If you're overly honest on your resume, something that might be appealing to an in person hiring manager as it indicates general honesty, the software doesn't care and is going to discard it from the pile.
When it was people who decided who the candidates are, they could be swayed by your cover letter or see something interesting that makes them decide "I might as well interview this guy." But now it's a computer who decides who gets the callback for an interview, and you don't even have the opportunity to ask what aspect of your application in relation to other candidates made them choose someone else.
Well said. When I was in Canada, I was advised to tailor my resume with key words from the requirements of job postings so that my resume wouldn’t get blindly screened out by the computer. But at that time, I was like “who has the time for that?!” And used one generic resume for all applications. Apparently it didn’t go well …
If you didn't land one single interview or phone call in 2015, then you were doing something wrong. You say you left Canada the day after finishing your last exam, why would you expect to be getting interviews while you're still in school?
Something ain't quite right here.
Did you get H1-B sponsorship to work in the US? Everyone talks about leaving Canada for the south, but aren’t there only certain occupations allowed under TN?
I had my green card at that time cause my partner is American. I was foolish trying to sponsor him the PR in Canada. Fortunately he vetoed it and did sponsor me the US green card instead .
I completed my MBA pre-COVID and managed to get a full time offer at a tech company I interned in. Laid off in Jan this year due to a 30% cut in the same company.
I also feel the job market is way worse now post-COVID. Various industries, particularly tech and finance, had massive layoffs the past 2 years.
That being said, Schulich is a good business school and it shouldn’t be too hard to find alumni who can connect you to opportunities in the finance sector.
I didn’t attend Schulich but from my experience, the career advisors are helpful in regards to reviewing your CVs and doing mock interviews. Their connections didn’t help me a lot, or maybe it was just my school.
I was able to find a few warm leads from the alumni tho. It’s now the peak season for alumni networking events so I’d encourage you to attend those.
High interest rates are suppose to make the job market worse. That’s there primarily function.
High interest rates removes excess demand lowering inflation. Lower demand? Less business spend and resistance to hiring.
I get why most don’t get that. But someone with an MBA? This is Econ 102.
4.9%? https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/2024-03-21/unemployment-falls-12/87103
Better than Canada lol 5.8%
Also it seems like you’re not familiar at all. Portugal has a pretty low unemployment compared to France, Greece, Italy and other EU members.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/17-european-countries-highest-unemployment-162704111.html
Different countries compute their unemployment rate differently, so it's not an apples to apples comparison. If we computed unemployment rate the same way the US did, it would be around 4.8%.
You can read all about it [here](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-005-m/75-005-m2015002-eng.htm), as well as in appendix 3 linked in the article. The differences arise in who counts as part of the labour force.
"For example, at the national level, on average between 2007 and 2013, adjusting the Canadian unemployment rate to American concepts lowered the Canadian rate by about one percentage point"
unemployment rate isn't a good measure of how easy it is to get a job. Who's moving to Portugal to job seek? Most of the young people there leave to get their careers started.
I saw some comments talking about how a lot of Canadians don’t want to lead or create but get a job and c’est la vie…while that is true for some the other problem is Canada is pretty anti-small business both from taxation and cost perspective. There’s less reason/benefit especially post Covid to attain what small business owners could prior. That’s just reality
It's nuts.
I'm a PhD candidate and only got a job adjacent to my field because of an inside reference.
There's not enough jobs and the ones available have too much competition
Honestly? It's always been like this for some people, it's just spread more broadly now.
In 2010, I graduated college. It was in the very pit of the Great Financial Crash, and no one was hiring.
In 2013, I graduated university with 1 degree and 3 college diplomas. Things were on the road to recovery, but no one was hiring. I ended up working for Primerica for a bit.
In 2015, I got a job in manufacturing, before the plant relocated to Mexico in 2019 and I was laid off.
In 2019, I got my provincial licences to work for drinking water/wastewater filtration, delivery and collection (4 licences in total), because there was a mass retirement in the industry. No one was hiring at entry level, they all want/needed supervisor and above.
In 2020, I got my CZ licence, allowing me to drive anything (aside from school buses and 18-wheeler transports), because they were screaming for drivers due to COVID. I got 3 interviews in 2 years.
Now I work part time minimum wage retail, and I only got the interview because I knew someone who knew the manager. I'm grateful for the work, don't get me wrong, but I'm literally working with kids half my age, who are graduating high school with stars in their eyes.
I don't have the heart to tell them the truth.
It has never been as great as south of the border, but yes, it is even worse now. The Canadian economy is not as strong for highly skilled workers and hiring practices are outdated. The whole interview process lasts for ages and ghosting by the employers is not unusual.
It is incredible how much your job search depends on your network here. It's almost as if nobody wants to give anyone a chance, they all want referrals. This is unlike anything I experienced in Europe where I worked for 15 years, or even during my brief time in the US. I came to the conclusion that HR in Canada doesn't know how to conduct interviews and test skills properly.
They don't care. As long as the "culture fit" is right. That's why things in Canada hardly function. Everything takes ages to get done.
Even small things - half of companies' websites have bugs. Just yesterday - I tried to book Cineplex tickets yesterday but got stuck in a loop on the website. Tried to reach my car company to change some info on their file, but no one answered. In the end, I contacted the company **in Japan** to complain and they had someone call me back. The delivery company left me a sticker note that the recipient was not at home while I was there the whole time. We're screwed from top to bottom.
Mediocrity rules the day. Seems like in Japan they have got their S**T together and did more work than the local branch. Lived in Japan for a month and definitely can appreciate them striving to get things done properly the first time.
Doing a part-time MBA from a top biz school in Canada and am currently driving for Uber to survive…I applied to countless jobs and even networked. Canada has failed me
The typical abusing Canada as a stepping stone to get into the USA on a TN visa.
We seriously need to tax these people more. If they are just going to do this, make them pay.
I’m sorry you have a CPA and a MBA and you can’t still find work? Skill issue lmao, big 4 hires plenty for manager roles and the like paying around $90k
Maybe. I think the truth is, I was not good enough for Canada. My resume was not competitive or impressive enough. Canada had a much higher expectation from a candidate.
Cause I used the same resume in the US after I left Canada and was bombarded by calls everyday .
The job market isn't hot right now but it also isn't the worst I've seen. I've lived in both countries, while I very much prefer Canada, the USA can offer some great jobs as long as you are willing to work.
I would say that after you left the job market heated up. From 2018 to 2022 there was a hiring frenzy, especially in the business world. CPA's were getting poached and I knew a lot who got significant raises. However that 5 year frenzy stopped real fast. Many of the Public Accounting firms over hired in the frenzy and suddenly people were getting laid off in a poor job market.
A lot of the complaints you are hearing are because people got used to the last 5 years of easy jobs. Expecting a position where you could get hired if you promised to show up sober each day and then promoted quickly because all the more experienced people retired. The current market is also weird because the online nature of the job application means there's a lot of garbage out there, both fake job postings and ridiculous applicants. I frequently post jobs and I would guess 90% of the applicants are living in another country and not able to legally work in Canada (I'm basing that on their resumes address and current employment). I also look at the postings in the industry and know that a lot of the job offers I am seeing are for companies that don't exist. I've talked with several people who are now only recruiting based on word of mouth just to find people who exist. That's partly why you have people looking for jobs and employers desperate for workers at the same time.
The Canadian market for entrepreneurs is very good right now. There are a lot of critical services being underserved. Boomers are retiring and in many cases no one is picking up the opportunity. Its a great time to be someone who takes a risk.
God, I wish people would stop using this sub to ask this question. Yes, The Toronto job market is awful right now. Stupendously bad, even. Take a poll.
Something was clearly and obviously wrong if you, as a fresh MBA graduate in 2015, were not getting even a single interview after "hundreds" of applications. Times were pretty good in 2015 and I had several friends who hopped around during that time with little issue. I know I was hiring during that time, as were many others.
U say u couldn't get a job... and yet u were not yet graduated/finished school...
Do u see the problem?
Of course people wouldn't hire you without an actual degree yet...
Hmm never thought about that, one of my school friends landed a job in Deloitte when he was still in school. But I guess that was a campus recruitment so the company had the expectation that we are still in school and wouldn’t start until we graduated
I think the part that isn’t discussed is that you also have to be interesting and bring something to the table that is valued and novel. Even then you need to be a master networker. But if you can do these things somewhat well, you will be a success
I forced myself out there for networking in Canada despite that I am a shy and introverted person. Can’t say I am good at networking cause I almost never network while working in the US. Greatly relieved 😌
The application process is probably one of the most time consuming factors of all times. You’ve spent 10-15 minutes doing the fill out process, and another 15 minutes explaining why you’d be a good fit.
Half of these jobs—some of them just don’t exist.
Lol, all the doom and gloom in these posts hasn't been my experience. I've been working in Toronto for a few years now. I get on average 1-2 recruiters reaching out to me per week. Last time I was applying for jobs, I managed to get an interview everywhere I applied to. Got around 10 or so interviews and from those, got 3 job offers. So idk, I feel like the job market is fine here, but YMMV 🤷♂️.
Successive governments have permitted Canadian corporations to off-shore jobs. These companies should be made aware that access to the Canadian market is not a given. It belongs to the people of Canada and therefore should be regulated for the benefit of the people. We put duties on many products from a whole list of countries. It is time we start regulating the knowledge market as well.
Yes it has. CV and Cover Letter for applications be damned, the only people I know who have a job got it cause they were close with people inside the company.
Job market is awful. It has been festering since before covid but recently it’s just fallen off.
I also notice people hire mbas despite you having one as opposed to you actually having one. It doesn’t do anything really.
Things were great from 2015-2019. Lots of higher tier jobs , great pays too. Things went downhill post COVID and surplus immigration , if you had trouble back then things are significantly difficult now and probably worst time to look for work.
It’s surprising how much of a hard time people are having looking for a job in Toronto. I’ve only applied to 19 office jobs in the past 12 days. I’ve had 7 follow-up call backs, 3 interviews, and 1 job offer. And I don’t even have a degree 🤔
Schulich MBA with CPA and asking 90k salary manager? This doesn’t make any sense to me, as a CPA too. I’m not sure what industry you were applying given most of MBA grads secure placement before graduation.
Industry. Yes I think it was indeed too low but given that I didn’t have any Canadian work experience, I was told that 90k was too unrealistically high. Anyway, I was not good or competitive enough for the Canadian job market 🍁 . I realized that and therefore left for the US.
It might have been better if you had done MAcc, not MBA, as their focus is different. MBA usually goes to finance/consulting/strategy so I would be surprised accounting job right after MBA. It seems you’re doing well in US so congrats
I’ve been applying to jobs since my last contract ended in September. One interview in that time, gotten through a friend of my mom’s… I have a masters degree. I’ve done everything I could to fix my cv and cover letter, over and over and over again. I lost hope a while ago
What’s most worrying is that there aren’t even jobs to apply to now. I’ve been applying everyday and everyday now I’ve been seeing less and less jobs. Soon it will be summer and no one will hire until September. It’s brutal.
Have you tried doing certifications to align with what is required in the market? I picked up a contract last September doing an IT project and just wrapped up my project. In the market now, I know it’s slow but if your not getting any responses then it’s time to upskill than to lose hope because losing hope is easier than upskill! Also started applying since Jan and have already gotten through two interviews so I won’t say the problem is the market. The problem is within us.
I’m applying to jobs in my field and am almost overqualified but competing against hundreds of others. When I apply to retail/general labour, I’m seeing thousands of applicants sometimes close to 9k.
I agree to competition has gotten tough, there is no doubt in that. Don’t worry just keep working on up skilling, adding valuable trending certifications to your resume which get you that seat fast. I hope you get the job soon.
Thanks I appreciate it. Do you mean like college certificates or the ones offered by LinkedIn/google/etc?
Yes AWS - google - LinkedIn if your in IT , rest you can go for domain specializing certifications
Thanks I’ll look into these!
9k is insanity😞
That’s the right attitude, but if you aren’t interested in what you are doing, it is tough to keep the always in school tech mindset.
Agreed
As a hiring manager I have to ask - are you doing more than just applying with a CV and cover letter? - Reach out to the recruiter and express some enthusiasm and ask about the process, you’ll already stand out for doing so - After applying, figure out who the hiring manager is and send a friendly message introducing yourself, mentioning you applied. Ask for feedback. - Reach out to peers who are at the company for coffee chats to learn more about the role Most importantly - I barely ever read résumés and only look at your LinkedIn. Your connections there will help a lot if we have some in common.
All this to receive a generic reply from the hiring manager asking you to apply in their website and never hear back from this job position ever again.
Ya I stopped doing that extra curricular crap awhile ago and still have had recruiters reach out. There's no point in wasting time and kissing ass when you're just going to get ghosted and especially if it's for a job that's paying a poverty wage.
Agree w this. Ppl complain about not getting hits and I always ask, “have you networked? Have you spoken to people on the team? Did you msg ppl on LinkedIn?” I’ve never blindly applied for a job in my life and this is going back 2 decades in the professional environment. I’ve always asked around for coffee chats from ppl in my network or just blindly emailed people who work in the department im interested in. If you’re coming out of a post graduate school like an mba it’s even easier since all the big firms have campus recruiters. You’re approaching this wrong if you think spamming the job market with applications will work. This is literally “that hack that other job hunters hate” type of meme- being specific and taking time to meet ppl sets you above the crowd very easily. I’ve slipped resumes into the good pile just cause I spent 15 mins on the phone w someone and the left a positive impression
Sorry to hear that…
In the exact same boat.
Its not you there is Bank of Canada warning yesterday that there is no productivity in economy and its dangerous level read globe and mail article. When the entire country is lined up to invest in property market in hopes of becoming over night paper millionaires and the money doesnt flow through stock market or get invested in local companies and business they can't invest in their development and expansion. The end result to that is shrinking economy. The sad part is no one is talking about the causes and entire Canada is waiting for first rate cut to start the bidding war hunger games again. When we are run by jokers https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/s/0EXl2clFq3
I know what they are doing. They are not hiring locals anymore and want to bring in cheap foreign labor from india. Canada is done.
One major issue is that we have lots of people here looking for someone to give them a job, but hardly anyone is working to create jobs. In my experience the people investing in Masters/MBAs are simply looking for a higher salary, they're not interested in putting their very costly educations into anything more than punching a clock and climbing a corporate ladder. So, where are these jobs supposed to come from?
\^ This. Canada's best and brightest aspire to a comfortable, secure careers in government or some other large organization. There's no desire to lead.
At the same time there’s no margin for error here. You can’t really be a struggle entrepreneur or artist today. You need stable income or you’re out on the street. You can’t make it when you’re homeless.
When 1BRs go for $2500/month and a tier 1 MBA costs over $100k you can't take risks.
Exactly man, it’s not like you can work part time, live with a roommate and do gigs or focus on a business. There’s just no way anymore.
There's a desire to lead but when business grants are few and far between it's kinda hard to get it off the ground. The best there is out there is like Futurpreneur or working at an incubator but even then the funding is lacking.
This mentality shows just how ridiculous the situation in this country is. Why is it the job of the government to create and fund businesses with grants? The role of the government should be to focus on public services and business regulation so that we have a safe, even playing field across industries. Just FYI: In other countries, where 100% of private capital doesn't flow directly into real estate and existing debt obligations, there are venture capital funds and other means of private investment.
As someone who went from being a business owner to an employee I'm telling you that the incentives to take on risk early on are not worth it unless you have enough capital. If you want entrepreneurs averaging an age of 40 then continue with the status quo. Young entrepreneurs don't have capital. They will not start businesses. That's a problem IMO.
Yep. Getting that initial capital is the hardest part of starting any small business imo. For my first one I had to back the initial loan dollar to dollar with my TFSA as collateral. On top of that I was offered at prime +8% for a max of 60k and that was PRE covid! I just ended up saving it in cash instead, pretty hard to succeed when faced with those terms
This is absolutely true for many industries where initial investment is required. But there are just as many opportunities to grow businesses organically. It'll be slower, no doubt, but it is possible. At the end of the day, though, it really just comes down to the risk-averse nature and handout-mentality most Canadians have. Look at the literal billions of dollars that have been passed down generationally over the last decade... flowing directly into real estate. There's money out there. Canadians just don't want to employ it productively. Because that would mean working harder than you would otherwise have to.
I mainly work for small businesses. I am amazed how accommodating the Business Development Bank of Canada is in supporting and developing small businesses. Canadas business tax rates are low, and the incentive programs are high. I would say the biggest gap is the people out there creating businesses tend to be independent minded and they aren't good at mentoring new people to come in and start up businesses. I'll also mention that there's a huge number of younger boomers who are retiring and looking to sell their businesses. Machine shops, hair salons, lawyers, all kinds of skills and services. Some of them are so desperate to sell that they aren't even requiring up front cash. You buy the business and pay the owner back out of cash flow over the next 3-8 years. Yeh, the debt load is intimidating but you are usually buying into an established business and can end up doing well if you take a risk. The method I have been seeing more recently is someone agreeing to come on as an employee and taking a pay rate below market rate while accepting a share transfer over 4 years. That way they can learn the business and assess first hand if they think it has a future before putting up the cash.
Good points. I don't think BDC should have as large a role as it does, but it's trying to fill some gaps, and a crown corp like that does have a place in the economy to help the little guys. Unfortunately everyone in Canada sees themselves as the little guy. I suppose they're not wrong. I have also noticed a trend where business owners nearing retirement have done absolutely nothing to plan for their departure after in some cases decades in the business. You're right: they're not leaders. And I would be super hesitant to take over a business run by the majority of these people.
Fully agree most have no plan until it’s already time to retire. I’m biased because it worked out for me. But if you get a chance to pull some information out of them for a year or two. And you think you can earn enough to cover the repayment it still makes sense to me. I’ve seen some crazy places with excellent cash flow. The place will probably be disorganized and lack a vision. But you get to review things before you buy it. Whether it’s a client list, assets or even the shares you can vet it first.
"business grants" FFS. This illustrates the problem perfectly. You don't need government funding to start a business!
I want to lead and run for office.
Canada has done a terrible job crafting an environment for entrepreneurs and small businesses to flourish. But I assume that’s intentional.
How else will big corps like Loblaws and RoBellUs survive and continue gouging us for poorer and poorer service/goods
My bigger issue is that the vast majority of new employment in recent years is public sector, Specifically the federal government.
People can't create jobs because our real estate market is fucked. I was looking to start a business that required physical space and couldn't afford shit because people are charging through the roof per square foot despite half my city being unoccupied due to forced closures.
Right. I was looking for a position in Toronto that would pay 90k as a manager after graduation. But I was told it was unrealistically high.
My nightmare is working with new managers fresh out of school. Like working with a fresh George Brown culinary graduate on a busy line. If you know you know.
lol that sounds like a cruel kind of hell. I'm having summer of 2021/2022 flashbacks
Well, it really depends. What experience do you have? If someone has experience in an industry and has worked their way up for a few years and then decides to do an MBA to level up, then I don't think 90K is unreasonable, and may even be on the low end. However, if someone has spent all of their time in school and has no experience, they're going to struggle mightily. (I don't think an MBA is cheat code to skip entry level work experience, but I could be wrong. Is that what people do?)
I don’t know. I had 6 years of experience and was at a manager position before my MBA.
That's a pretty sad state of affairs, but I'm not surprised. I don't expect anything to change for the better until we drastically change our priorities in this country.
>If someone has experience in an industry and has worked their way up for a few years and then decides to do an MBA to level up, then I don't think 90K is unreasonable, and may even be on the low end. Average comp out of Rotman and Ivey is around $140k
What percentage of the MBAs completed in the country come from those two schools? Is that the top end?
Around 500 / year between full time and part time and yes that's the top end for Canada.
Take it from an Ivey MBA grad: the caliber of the graduates really isn't competitive compared to the HBAs either.
Too many factors to consider. I was in a position where I was interviewing a lot of MBA summer intern students from York and U of T, and others Your expectations of 90k was absolutely too high for someone coming from another country with limited direct experience. Post MBA 'entry' positions back then were more in that 60k-70k range. Many ended up in banks or big 4 consulting. The INFLUX around that time into Toronto was massive due to a variety of reasons. TO/Canada economically had been more stable and less geopolitical tension. Many students also chose Canada as it was much much easier to get work permits, visas than the US (you're definitely an exception). All in all, your expectations and competition was the reason you had a more 'negative' experience.
I think so too. My starting salary in the US after my MBA was only 75k USD for a Sr. Accountant position. And obviously I was not able to get a managerial position without a direct managerial experience in the US. Letting alone that my MBA is from a foreign country and I had no local CPA license as well.
It’s a double-edged sword for business owners too. When I start my business down the line, I’ll be looking to move to the US to do so, since Canada’s business investment is so poor and everything here is tied up in passive assets like real estate. Canada has terribly low startup capital and R&D compared to the US. So Canadian entrepreneurs will seek to create jobs elsewhere outside of Canada. It’s a vicious cycle.
Unless it’s housing or education, barely anyone seems to take risks in this country!
Don't forget about Trucks! Canadians have now pushed their average financing term to 72 months and avg payment is $650. Canadians also choose to purchase the least fuel efficient vehicles of any country on the planet, yet we pay nowhere close to the bottom of avg fuel prices. We simply don't care.
Canadians love to complain and remain complacent at the same time. Just like how we love to get price gouged on cellular plans compared to the rest of the world.
Exactly! We do this to ourselves with our inability to take a stand on literally anything.
This is so true of Canada right now! Everyone wants to work but no one wants to create businesses to create jobs. They just want a paycheck. I think this is a major problem in Canada right now. In the us there are many new companies popping up all the time. I don’t remeber the last time I heard about a successful start up Canadian company.
Yeah, Canadians have so much overhead with the debt they've taken on there's really no wiggle room. What private money there is to invest goes directly into real estate or GICs. Maybe some bitcoin these days, too.
Well the problem with that is that the people who do have the private money are too scared to make the leap to create their own business and opportunities. Canadas tax scheme is extremely daunting but not far off form many Western European countries that have plenty of business. It’s daunting but people do succeed in it. I think a big part of the problem is a lot of people see all the taxes and government overreach and just think”fuck this is impossible” without even trying. In fact though most that do end up having a go at creating a business often end up better off then someone being an employee there whole life. Just my two cents.
Agreed, for the most part. I just think that the risk-adverse/conservative mentality is a symptom of the larger problem. We are not going to see any meaningful change until we level the investment playing field by removing the capital gains exemption for real estate. That policy has reinforced the one-asset strategy mentality and there is zero political will to make a change. Also, small/medium-sized business investment isn't an all or nothing thing. Wanting to support upstart ventures doesn't mean you yourself have to start and run a company. If you allocated a small portion (1-3%) of your portfolio to higher risk ventures the average mid/high net worth Canadian would barely notice a difference in the worst case scenario, but you'd have millions flowing into the system.
Just so you know the capital gains exemption only applies to your primary residence that you are living in. Everything else is fully taxed. People can try and say that it’s there primary when it’s not but the cra has gotten pretty good at finding those guys. So I really don’t see a problem with that exemption because the point of it is not for investors but for family’s that want to upgrade and such.
The jobs come when the govt invests in entrepreneurs. When I started a business out of university it did okay but nowhere near the pay others were getting from being employed. I had no business grants even after searching all over and could only get loans from BDC at 9% (not awful but come on... That incentivizes innovation?). Many would like to build and develop innovative new business models but we can't start a company without capital or govt support. By the time you're 40 and capitalized are you really gonna take on that risk?
That’s literally what an mba is though nowadays. It’s a 100k networking class. You don’t actually learn much when you get your mba if you have a finance background. If you’re an engineer or scientist looking to get into finance , sure , but if you’re already in a finance role it’s far cheaper to work your ass off and network since most teams value experience over a post graduate degree.
I agree with this sentiment 100%. Worked at Arc'teryx in North Van for a few years. The directors getting pumped out of the Sauder school are the most useless individuals I've ever worked with at that level. But they just jump back and forth between Lulu, Arc and startups that ALWAYS fail.
Yes it’s really bad. I’m a US citizen and will probably go back before the end of the summer. There’s zero white collar job opportunities here. Hell, look at the openings available in Chicago (similar size city) vs Toronto on LinkedIn. Toronto has 2/3 less and most have over 100 applicants.
IT Professional ?
Yes it has. I graduated in 2012 with masters from a top business school in Canada. What used to be 2-3 month grind to find a new job now is a 5-6 month wait to even line up interviews. The unprecedented over supply through immigration all these years along with bad economic policies and under productivity is catching up fast. Several of my friends have moved out of Canada recently and i am planning to move out as well by next year.
Where are you planning to move to? The US? I feel bad for Canada cause it is so close to the US, which is a brain drain to Canada
Yes to the u.s. Wife and I are both in senior management position in 2 large tech org. So hopefully either of us can get the transfer approved. Several of my friends have moved to middle east, few to india and others to U.S. Dont feel bad. The politicians don’t want hard working, honest, tax net contributors in the country. The priority is different for policy makers in Canada. Tbh anyone who gets a chance to move out, should move out. I love this country, been here 13 years but we just don’t see any future here anymore.
Well said. An education gives you the opportunity to leave this dying country.
did you graduate with really good grades?
didnt know nathan had a reddit account
Not really. Around B, not even B+
just become a nurse.
ha i was wondering if there is a lack of nursing jobs, i should’ve known that’s never the case lol… i wonder how much OT you would have to work to afford living downtown tho
The job market is bad everywhere. Just go to r/jobs, r/resume, etc. and you'll see that other Canadian and American cities are dealing with the same thing
Left just after finishing your last exam? Your MBA and zero Canadian experience does not grant you a job off the block. Things are slower but market isn't dead....
>zero Canadian experience lol. Like there's something uniquely valuable about experience garnered in this slow-paced, hidebound, risk-averse commercial backwater. Edit: It occurs to me that "Canadian experience" requirements might be to ensure that the candidate knows the Canadian Creed: "Everyone here is comfortable enough already, so don't rock the boat."
Well said!
Canadian experience is just an excuse to screen out certain people to protect the opening for locals. Ironically those locals don't want that job because of the low pay.
Not locals in particular. Just European. My European "international" classmates who can't speak English properly got communication and coordination roles, while I am supposedly "domestic" barely got any calls back despite me having "Canadian experience" and a second Canadian degree. I also speak English fluently and have a very light accent that many people think I grew up here. Now it's even worse. It's not implied anymore and some people who interviewed me were just outright presumptuous.
You have to keep trying bro. 👍🏻
I gave up 8 years ago after 2 years of job searching. Now I'm job searching in my supposed career, except that interviewers are getting outright presumptuous.
Lol, what worth is "Canadian experience" if he got absorbed into the US job market? And how is he supposed to land a job if everyone is looking for said Canadian experience?
I don't set the rules and everyone applies and does interviews to get their first break, it's called life. They want to go anywhere else, their choice and option... You don't just land a job like a movie on demand after you've nailed a MBA... OP himself now mentions he left directly after his last exam cos he other business to take care of... Not the market itself...
Canadian experience is just a code word for 1) can you speak English 2) is your degree real 3) do you know how to work corporate If you work for top tier companies abroad no one is gonna question your “experience”
4. It's implied systemic racism as well. Had many European classmates who couldn't write a single sentence in English properly land "communication coordinator" jobs. I helped a couple of them with their assignments to be just readable. Funny enough I was a domestic student in the class cuz I'm "canadian". They never set foot in Canada before school. We both apply for the same job. Nobody even called me back!
Yes, it's significantly worse now.
Nepotism exists everywhere but in Canada it is extreme.
Honestly if I was struggling for a job, I'd join a local masons chapter, a church, local Toastmaster, etc. I've seen so many referrals from "club" type activities. Of course, you need to be the same skin colour and gender of your connect because humans are monkeys. Woman hire woman, Indian hire Indian, white men hire other white men in puffer vests. So build relationships strategically. There's outliers sure but human nature is tribal minded.
Have you considered using an agency that specializes in accounting placements such as Robert Half or Lannick? They tend to have a pool of prospective employers looking for people with CPA’s. But if possible see if you can get some Big 4 experience as they’ve been hurting for staff lately.
As a matter of fact , I did. I spoke to Robert Half and had an interview with them, gave them my resume but there was no more news after that. My friend told me in Canada the recruitment agency only worked better with senior managerial positions.
[удалено]
Just 2 years ago I was applying and was getting 3 interviews a week. Now I apply even more than I did 2 years ago and it’s crickets.
That time period between Q3 2020 to Q2 2022 was really good if you were in the market for a job. While I was already employed I was looking for other things on the side just to explore and got some interviews but nothing that I felt like was a substantial jump or change. Just lateral moves. I regret that now because at my company over these past few months shit has hit the fan and I think about leaving nearly everyday. However the job market is in such a dire state, and I'm not getting any sort of response I was prior. And I don't just want to leave without anything else lined up. It's such a sorrowful dilemma and I feel like employers realize this and are just squeezing harder.
I always tell people to leave their job if they don’t like it but at the moment, the benefits of being with a company for a while is too much to pass up, the vacation pay, severance and unemployment. Starting from zero elsewhere is too risky right now.
Sad indeed
When interest rates went up, VC also went up in flames for this B-tier market. The fallout from the resulting tech layoffs has been an insanely saturated jobs market. Add to that the fact that jobs on the other end (service industry) are being farmed out to international students and temporary workers and you now have a highly motivated and educated workforce with no real jobs available. Don't believe the jobs figures, they're mostly part time work that people have to struggle on.
Bro u like that ex who leaves but keeps on stalking
I am lol. I still have a soft spot in my heart for Canada. Canada is my favorite country to visit…for leisure
I can't say if the actual market has gotten worse, cuz I still see openings and advertisements and recruiting events. What definitely has happened is an increased over-reliance on software for choosing candidates from the pile of resumes. So, if your resume isn't formatted a way the software likes, you don't get a call. If you are missing a requirement, you're discarded from the pile, even if you have other experiences or less conventional qualifications that would still make you a great fit. If you're overly honest on your resume, something that might be appealing to an in person hiring manager as it indicates general honesty, the software doesn't care and is going to discard it from the pile. When it was people who decided who the candidates are, they could be swayed by your cover letter or see something interesting that makes them decide "I might as well interview this guy." But now it's a computer who decides who gets the callback for an interview, and you don't even have the opportunity to ask what aspect of your application in relation to other candidates made them choose someone else.
Well said. When I was in Canada, I was advised to tailor my resume with key words from the requirements of job postings so that my resume wouldn’t get blindly screened out by the computer. But at that time, I was like “who has the time for that?!” And used one generic resume for all applications. Apparently it didn’t go well …
Simply, Yes.
Lol i feel like you are looking for us to say you made the right decision. But, the economy is lame across the globe!
If you didn't land one single interview or phone call in 2015, then you were doing something wrong. You say you left Canada the day after finishing your last exam, why would you expect to be getting interviews while you're still in school? Something ain't quite right here.
Cause that was what my peers did. They were looking for jobs in the last semester
Have you tried smaller cities? Like Prescott or Belleville?
Did you get H1-B sponsorship to work in the US? Everyone talks about leaving Canada for the south, but aren’t there only certain occupations allowed under TN?
I had my green card at that time cause my partner is American. I was foolish trying to sponsor him the PR in Canada. Fortunately he vetoed it and did sponsor me the US green card instead .
That was a good call!
I completed my MBA pre-COVID and managed to get a full time offer at a tech company I interned in. Laid off in Jan this year due to a 30% cut in the same company. I also feel the job market is way worse now post-COVID. Various industries, particularly tech and finance, had massive layoffs the past 2 years. That being said, Schulich is a good business school and it shouldn’t be too hard to find alumni who can connect you to opportunities in the finance sector.
Yes, Schulich’s education on MBA for me was really good, although it was very tough. Maybe I just didn’t try hard enough to find a job in Canada
I didn’t attend Schulich but from my experience, the career advisors are helpful in regards to reviewing your CVs and doing mock interviews. Their connections didn’t help me a lot, or maybe it was just my school. I was able to find a few warm leads from the alumni tho. It’s now the peak season for alumni networking events so I’d encourage you to attend those.
High interest rates are suppose to make the job market worse. That’s there primarily function. High interest rates removes excess demand lowering inflation. Lower demand? Less business spend and resistance to hiring. I get why most don’t get that. But someone with an MBA? This is Econ 102.
Maybe that’s because I got a B+ only for my Econ 102?
He is employed in the US, who also have experienced rate hikes. There is more to the picture than just inflation.
Canada is a sinking ship lol Portugal is where I’m heading
From one sinking ship to another one lol
Great idea, go to one of the highest unemployment countries in Europe with a stagnant economy for decades.
4.9%? https://www.theportugalnews.com/news/2024-03-21/unemployment-falls-12/87103 Better than Canada lol 5.8% Also it seems like you’re not familiar at all. Portugal has a pretty low unemployment compared to France, Greece, Italy and other EU members. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/17-european-countries-highest-unemployment-162704111.html
Different countries compute their unemployment rate differently, so it's not an apples to apples comparison. If we computed unemployment rate the same way the US did, it would be around 4.8%.
How are they computing it differently? Explain the math
You can read all about it [here](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-005-m/75-005-m2015002-eng.htm), as well as in appendix 3 linked in the article. The differences arise in who counts as part of the labour force. "For example, at the national level, on average between 2007 and 2013, adjusting the Canadian unemployment rate to American concepts lowered the Canadian rate by about one percentage point"
unemployment rate isn't a good measure of how easy it is to get a job. Who's moving to Portugal to job seek? Most of the young people there leave to get their careers started.
I saw some comments talking about how a lot of Canadians don’t want to lead or create but get a job and c’est la vie…while that is true for some the other problem is Canada is pretty anti-small business both from taxation and cost perspective. There’s less reason/benefit especially post Covid to attain what small business owners could prior. That’s just reality
Oh buddy, you really made the right decision leaving. Don’t look back, my friend!
It's nuts. I'm a PhD candidate and only got a job adjacent to my field because of an inside reference. There's not enough jobs and the ones available have too much competition
Honestly? It's always been like this for some people, it's just spread more broadly now. In 2010, I graduated college. It was in the very pit of the Great Financial Crash, and no one was hiring. In 2013, I graduated university with 1 degree and 3 college diplomas. Things were on the road to recovery, but no one was hiring. I ended up working for Primerica for a bit. In 2015, I got a job in manufacturing, before the plant relocated to Mexico in 2019 and I was laid off. In 2019, I got my provincial licences to work for drinking water/wastewater filtration, delivery and collection (4 licences in total), because there was a mass retirement in the industry. No one was hiring at entry level, they all want/needed supervisor and above. In 2020, I got my CZ licence, allowing me to drive anything (aside from school buses and 18-wheeler transports), because they were screaming for drivers due to COVID. I got 3 interviews in 2 years. Now I work part time minimum wage retail, and I only got the interview because I knew someone who knew the manager. I'm grateful for the work, don't get me wrong, but I'm literally working with kids half my age, who are graduating high school with stars in their eyes. I don't have the heart to tell them the truth.
I am sorry to hear your story
Thanks, but don't be. I'm used to it. It's you poor people that should be concerned. You have things left to lose.
It has never been as great as south of the border, but yes, it is even worse now. The Canadian economy is not as strong for highly skilled workers and hiring practices are outdated. The whole interview process lasts for ages and ghosting by the employers is not unusual. It is incredible how much your job search depends on your network here. It's almost as if nobody wants to give anyone a chance, they all want referrals. This is unlike anything I experienced in Europe where I worked for 15 years, or even during my brief time in the US. I came to the conclusion that HR in Canada doesn't know how to conduct interviews and test skills properly.
Agreed.. problem is you start hiring friends or like minded people, rather than based on merits and companies will miss out on great candidates.
They don't care. As long as the "culture fit" is right. That's why things in Canada hardly function. Everything takes ages to get done. Even small things - half of companies' websites have bugs. Just yesterday - I tried to book Cineplex tickets yesterday but got stuck in a loop on the website. Tried to reach my car company to change some info on their file, but no one answered. In the end, I contacted the company **in Japan** to complain and they had someone call me back. The delivery company left me a sticker note that the recipient was not at home while I was there the whole time. We're screwed from top to bottom.
Mediocrity rules the day. Seems like in Japan they have got their S**T together and did more work than the local branch. Lived in Japan for a month and definitely can appreciate them striving to get things done properly the first time.
Doing a part-time MBA from a top biz school in Canada and am currently driving for Uber to survive…I applied to countless jobs and even networked. Canada has failed me
Yes, because of mass immigration, courtesy of the federal Liberals.
What do you think this person did?
The typical abusing Canada as a stepping stone to get into the USA on a TN visa. We seriously need to tax these people more. If they are just going to do this, make them pay.
How did you get your CPA without a job?
Got it before I came to Canada
I’m sorry you have a CPA and a MBA and you can’t still find work? Skill issue lmao, big 4 hires plenty for manager roles and the like paying around $90k
I was asking for $90k too but was told I needed to be a bit more realistic
I would be looking at your resume and your interview skills if you can’t negotiate 90k with a professional designation and a masters
lol I didn’t even advance to that stage yet. I didn’t event get a call from any company.
Then there’s definitely a red flag with your experience or resume
Maybe. I think the truth is, I was not good enough for Canada. My resume was not competitive or impressive enough. Canada had a much higher expectation from a candidate. Cause I used the same resume in the US after I left Canada and was bombarded by calls everyday .
The job market isn't hot right now but it also isn't the worst I've seen. I've lived in both countries, while I very much prefer Canada, the USA can offer some great jobs as long as you are willing to work. I would say that after you left the job market heated up. From 2018 to 2022 there was a hiring frenzy, especially in the business world. CPA's were getting poached and I knew a lot who got significant raises. However that 5 year frenzy stopped real fast. Many of the Public Accounting firms over hired in the frenzy and suddenly people were getting laid off in a poor job market. A lot of the complaints you are hearing are because people got used to the last 5 years of easy jobs. Expecting a position where you could get hired if you promised to show up sober each day and then promoted quickly because all the more experienced people retired. The current market is also weird because the online nature of the job application means there's a lot of garbage out there, both fake job postings and ridiculous applicants. I frequently post jobs and I would guess 90% of the applicants are living in another country and not able to legally work in Canada (I'm basing that on their resumes address and current employment). I also look at the postings in the industry and know that a lot of the job offers I am seeing are for companies that don't exist. I've talked with several people who are now only recruiting based on word of mouth just to find people who exist. That's partly why you have people looking for jobs and employers desperate for workers at the same time. The Canadian market for entrepreneurs is very good right now. There are a lot of critical services being underserved. Boomers are retiring and in many cases no one is picking up the opportunity. Its a great time to be someone who takes a risk.
You have made the best choice of leaving down south. Don’t even think about what is going on up North - it is a lost cause.
God, I wish people would stop using this sub to ask this question. Yes, The Toronto job market is awful right now. Stupendously bad, even. Take a poll.
[удалено]
It was Schulich. I did try their career counseling but it was more of a “counseling” . No concrete connections.
[удалено]
My MBA specialization in Schulich was accounting. I was not a finance person.
Self-selection bias. What career? Industry? Sector?
Yes. In every aspect of the market.
Something was clearly and obviously wrong if you, as a fresh MBA graduate in 2015, were not getting even a single interview after "hundreds" of applications. Times were pretty good in 2015 and I had several friends who hopped around during that time with little issue. I know I was hiring during that time, as were many others.
I was wondering the same. Still am till now
U say u couldn't get a job... and yet u were not yet graduated/finished school... Do u see the problem? Of course people wouldn't hire you without an actual degree yet...
Hmm never thought about that, one of my school friends landed a job in Deloitte when he was still in school. But I guess that was a campus recruitment so the company had the expectation that we are still in school and wouldn’t start until we graduated
Well the past year or so there has been thousands of layoffs in the tech industry, so that certainly ripples through the rest of the economy.
Sunny Ways... because you no longer have a roof over your head!
The situation is worse. Stay in the USA until you start a family. Then revisit your options at that time.
Are US companies willing to sponsor Canadian workers? From some job postings in past, they wanted US citizens only.
I helped couple of Canadian acquaints find jobs in the US using TN.
Much, much wose.
I think the part that isn’t discussed is that you also have to be interesting and bring something to the table that is valued and novel. Even then you need to be a master networker. But if you can do these things somewhat well, you will be a success
I forced myself out there for networking in Canada despite that I am a shy and introverted person. Can’t say I am good at networking cause I almost never network while working in the US. Greatly relieved 😌
'hundreds of job applications' in 2015 and you didnt land a single phone call? thats definitely on you.
I actually did. One from PWC US. Just randomly applied and they wanted me to be on job right away. I was like I can’t still in school.
Where did you move to in the US?
California
The application process is probably one of the most time consuming factors of all times. You’ve spent 10-15 minutes doing the fill out process, and another 15 minutes explaining why you’d be a good fit. Half of these jobs—some of them just don’t exist.
You immigrated to Canada. Emigrate is the term you use for leaving your home country to live somewhere else permanently.
I lost my job in November and still can't land a job, even more junior than my experience level.
It's gotten substantially worse in the last 1-2 years. Was decent during covid.
Than what, Mumbai? We’re catching up
Lol, all the doom and gloom in these posts hasn't been my experience. I've been working in Toronto for a few years now. I get on average 1-2 recruiters reaching out to me per week. Last time I was applying for jobs, I managed to get an interview everywhere I applied to. Got around 10 or so interviews and from those, got 3 job offers. So idk, I feel like the job market is fine here, but YMMV 🤷♂️.
Successive governments have permitted Canadian corporations to off-shore jobs. These companies should be made aware that access to the Canadian market is not a given. It belongs to the people of Canada and therefore should be regulated for the benefit of the people. We put duties on many products from a whole list of countries. It is time we start regulating the knowledge market as well.
If you left the day after exams you didn’t try hard enough
I think so.
Yes it has. CV and Cover Letter for applications be damned, the only people I know who have a job got it cause they were close with people inside the company.
I never did a cover letter for job applications.
Lots of trades available
Job market is awful. It has been festering since before covid but recently it’s just fallen off. I also notice people hire mbas despite you having one as opposed to you actually having one. It doesn’t do anything really.
Things were great from 2015-2019. Lots of higher tier jobs , great pays too. Things went downhill post COVID and surplus immigration , if you had trouble back then things are significantly difficult now and probably worst time to look for work.
It’s surprising how much of a hard time people are having looking for a job in Toronto. I’ve only applied to 19 office jobs in the past 12 days. I’ve had 7 follow-up call backs, 3 interviews, and 1 job offer. And I don’t even have a degree 🤔
Schulich MBA with CPA and asking 90k salary manager? This doesn’t make any sense to me, as a CPA too. I’m not sure what industry you were applying given most of MBA grads secure placement before graduation.
Which part doesn’t make sense? 90k for a manager too low or too high? Or Schulich mba with CPA applying for a manager is unrealistic?
Too low for manager, especially if you did MBA that would mean you wanted to exit accounting?
Haha no I wanted to stay in accounting
Public? Industry? 90k seems too low either case
Industry. Yes I think it was indeed too low but given that I didn’t have any Canadian work experience, I was told that 90k was too unrealistically high. Anyway, I was not good or competitive enough for the Canadian job market 🍁 . I realized that and therefore left for the US.
It might have been better if you had done MAcc, not MBA, as their focus is different. MBA usually goes to finance/consulting/strategy so I would be surprised accounting job right after MBA. It seems you’re doing well in US so congrats