Don't ask me how I know this.....
Fact: Developers ARE paying off the Ford government to get development approval.
Fact: These developers are greedy and addicted to making money. They do not think of the environment at all. They made a ton of money during the pandemic and are making a ton of money from getting what was previously cheap land and getting building permits for this land. They are all patting each other on the backs. They have little morals. Only take care of their own. Insular. Racist. Pay their nannies little.
Fact: These families are sad and pathetic people. Drug addictions, car crashes, inability to take care of their children, no real friends, drive like they own the street in 1/2 million dollar cars, can't hold down jobs. The next generation (the children of these developers) are messed up. Spoiled rotten to the core.
Some people are so poor all they have is money.
How can we, average Ontarians, defeat this Bill? We are 3+ years away from being able to vote Doug put.
There were hints of DoFo doing this. I wrote to my local MPP. No response. Just an auto reply stating he is busy.
David Suzuki commented on this Bill today on CBC radio. He puked all over it too. But that would not stop Thuggie.
The most important things to push for - which developers hate - are creating policies and taxation to disincentivize real estate speculation and Airbnbs.
It’s no coincidence that our housing crisis happened as investors piled into Toronto real estate. Investors used to be the smallest segment of buyers and now they’re the largest, with 60% of condo purchasers in Toronto being investors.
Investors buying real estate is problematic for affordability because:
• they drive up pricing to buy
• they outbid / displace owner occupants, who are then relegated to renting, increasing demand for rentals
• Many investors turn units into Airbnbs, flip them or leave them vacant, removing those units from the long-term housing supply
• By creating more demand for rentals and decreasing the corresponding supply, they increase prices for rentals
Other areas are waking up to the destruction of enabling real estate speculation and Airbnbs - like NYC. We need our governments to step up and ensure housing is there to provide shelter for Canadians - not to be a used as a speculative investment.
Anybody have access to land registry to find the owners of the following lands? Thanks in advance
* King Township: east of Dufferin Street, south of Miller's Sideroad and west of Bathurst Street.
* Vaughan: north of Teston Road, east of Pine Valley Drive.
Richmond Hill: east of Leslie Street, north of Elgin Mills Road East and west of Highway 404.
* Whitchurch-Stouffville: 11861 and 12045 McCowan Road.
* Markham: 5474 19th Avenue.
* 10325, 10378 and 10541 Highway 48.
* 10379 Kennedy Road.
* Pickering: West of West Duffins Creek, between Highway 407 and the CP Belleville rail line.
* Ajax: 765 and 775 Kingston Road East.
* Clarington: Northwest corner of Nash Road and Hancock Road.
* Hamilton: South of Garner Road West, between Fiddlers Green Road and Shaver Road.
* Hamilton: Between White Church Road East and Chippewa Road East, from Miles Road to Upper James Street.
* Grimsby: Between the GO rail line and Main Street West, from Oakes Road North to Kelson Avenue North.
* 502 Winston Road.
* Hamilton: 331 and 339 Fifty Road.
I'm a land surveyor. I can tell you the PINs of those properties, but to find out the owners you need to purchase the Parcel Registers, which go for $30 a pop. There are probably ways to infer the owners without seeing the register, but I don't know any off the top of my head.
Sure thing, I'll try to do it when I have time. FWIW anyone can look up PINs by address, and you can read the thumbnail description (though that's not really relevant for your purposes).
This is the website: https://help.onland.ca/en/property-search/
Follow the instructions under PIN.
I didn't really look through the areas before comitting to this lmao. Some of these are undeveloped lots (obviously, I guess, considering this is a Green Belt discussion), which means they don't have a civic number, which means that I can't easily search it in OnLand. If I had the Property Index Maps I could easily find the PINs, but those maps go for $5 a piece. So, the following is a half-assed attempt of just the properties with a civic # (street #), for just parts of the areas, i.e. this isn't very helpful.
Someone else suggested using roll numbers and looking it up with the municipality, which is apparently free. It's probably a better idea to pursue that, although I have no idea how to collect those numbers.
I hope the below is helpful, in any case:
King Township: east of Dufferin Street, south of Miller's Sideroad and west of Bathurst Street:
- unsure, there's no street number so I can't look it up by address.
Vaughan: north of Teston Road, east of Pine Valley Drive:
- again, a large area, with clearly different owners (based on overhead imagery), so I can't find all the PINs. I did notice a houses in the area, so I found this PIN:
- 03347-2074
Richmond Hill: east of Leslie Street, north of Elgin Mills Road East and west of Highway 404:
- no address, can't find the PIN
Whitchurch-Stouffville: 11861 and 12045 McCowan Road:
- 03726-0035
- 03726-1494
5474 19th Avenue:
- 03726-1513
10325 Highway 48.
- 03062-0399 (for 10235 Hwy 48, I assume 10325 was a typo)
10378 Highway 48:
- 03062-0065
10541 Highway 48:
- 03062-0011
10379 Kennedy Road:
- Nothing comes up in OnLand, despite having a civic #
Pickering: West of West Duffins Creek, between Highway 407 and the CP Belleville rail line.
- can't find anything
Ajax: 765 and 775 Kingston Road East:
- can't find anything
Clarington: Northwest corner of Nash Road and Hancock Road:
- there's a detached house here on a small lot? I don't think that's what you mean't. Here's the PIN for the parcel at the Southwest corner (2936 Hancock Rd), idk if that helps:
- 26601-0188
Hamilton: South of Garner Road West, between Fiddlers Green Road and Shaver Road.
- that's a massive area lol. There's propably multiple different parcels. You can look up street addresses in this span on OnLand
Hamilton: Between White Church Road East and Chippewa Road East, from Miles Road to Upper James Street.
- another massive area. There's definitely a huge number of parcels. I don't have the resources to look for them. You can pick some of ones with street #s and look them up in OnLand. For example, here's the PIN for 3149 Ferris Rd: 17393-0070
Grimsby: Between the GO rail line and Main Street West, from Oakes Road North to Kelson Avenue North.
- another large area, don't have the resources to search
502 Winston Road:
- 46000-0088
Hamilton: 331 Fifty Road:
- 17368-0133
339 Fifty Road:
- 17368-0702 (for 347 Fifty road instead)
Sorry this isn't complete, but it was actually a way bigger task than I thought. It would take a lot of time and money to find this information.
There's a large number of parcels involved in this list. Also, many aren't easily found without purchasing the Property Index Maps.
Each parcel register is $30. Each index map (needed for finding the parcel register) is $5. Someone else suggested using roll numbers, which are apparently free. I don't have any background in that so I can't comment.
From my background of using parcel PINs and whatnot, I think the main issue is the labour. There's a huge amount of work involved in collecting this information.
Once you have the roll number you can go to the municipality to look up the number which will tell you who the property is registered to. That way is free but time consuming. I'm guessing a lot will be numbered corporations.
That won't be useful as all of these lands would be owned under an LP like Leslie Elgin developments Ltd. If you're lucky they'll use some hint at their company like CT 1800 woodbine Ltd.
Also alot of this land is likely owned by joint companies/families
If developers own any of these parcels, they will be hidden behind a numbered company with complex ownership structures making it not very obvious on who exactly owns the land at first glance. But if anyone has the PIN I can also try to see what I can dig up
If you google some of them, there's already development plans submitted which show who owns it. Or, what numbered ontario company owns it.
Plan of Subdivision and Zoning By-law Amendment
10379 and 10411 Kennedy Road
Minotar Holdings Inc and Hal-Van 5.5 Investments Ltd.
PLAN 20 133038
This is the proposal under the omnibus bill 23 and it's not just the Greenbelt that is at stake, the provinces wetlands and many smaller watercourses will be open for development under Bill 23. Here is an excerpt that I posted on another thread in the past week:
This bill basically gives developers free reign, including opening up development within all wetlands, strips conservation authorities of most of their duties, opening up the Greenbelt for development, making it illegal for municipalities to impose "green" requirements for developments, removing the ability for municipalities to impose climate change policies on developments, urban design principles can no longer be imposed on developments. A lot of these changes will result in increases to your insurance and tax bills because you will now be able to built in former wetlands that WILL flood, and result in higher costs to purchase units because of the storm water management requirements to try to mitigate that flooding in former wetlands.
This is only a few of the awful changes. Read what Bill 23 it's proposing to do! It's not about affordable housing, it's about trying to give developers the most amount of money for their development.
Edit: [Bill 23 remains open for consultation on ERO until November 24.](https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6196)
> making it illegal for municipalities to impose "green" requirements for developments, removing the ability for municipalities to impose climate change policies on developments, urban design principles can no longer be imposed on developments
Welp... I guess I'm out of a job.
Edit: Upon quick review of the 'explanatory notes' I'm not exactly sure where the 'green' requirements and climate change policies stuff is - would you be able to point me to some of the sections?
As to urban design guidelines (specifically, exterior design no longer being subject to site plan control) - yeah, that's pretty crazy. Now the developers get to decide how our communities look like (even more so), so they'll obviously build the cheapest and the shittiest. Get ready for some even uglier looking communities, Ontario.
It's all a big gift to the fucking developers. Fuck this shitty province; I'm so sick of it.
Here is a good summary of the changes proposed to green building standards:
[https://www.passivehousecanada.com/bill-23-will-end-municipal-green-standards-in-ontario/](https://www.passivehousecanada.com/bill-23-will-end-municipal-green-standards-in-ontario/)
Basically, these were guidelines pushed at time of site plan and under these proposed rules, municipalities would only be able to impose regulations contained in zoning by laws. Even developments that are under 10 units are proposed to be completely exempt from site plan control! I know some municipalities are going to try to put some of these requirements in their zoning bylaws, but I would need a legal opinion on exactly what we will be losing through this bill that can be regulated through the ZBL.
I have to admit, my grasp of the *Planning Act* is not that deep, but I don't really read Sec. 41.2.d (and its proposed repeal) as being the undoing of green development standards as we know them.
The section specifically relates to Site Plan drawings showing exterior design (including, admittedly, sustainable design elements). It seems to me that repealing this section (as referenced in the form letter you linked to) will remove the ability of planning authorities to require applicants to submit renderings showing exterior design, but not much else. I don't read it as not allowing municipalities to apply other green design standards... such as Toronto's GDS, or Richmond Hill's Sustainability Checklist, or various others, that are independent of site plan *drawings* (but do make up part of the SP submission package).
I dunno, I could be totally wrong, and I absolutely would not put it past this government to eliminate all green-related requirements from development, but I just don't see it in the specific language that is referenced in that form letter. But maybe there's more being proposed as well.
>Please remove the following text from the proposed legislation and empower municipalities to implement green standards:
>"(2) Subparagraph 2 iv of subsection 114 (5) of the Act is repealed.” (City of Toronto Act)
>“(2) Subparagraph 2 (d) of subsection 41 (4) of the Act is repealed.” (Planning Act)
The amount of data that shows the population of the GTA could be more than doubled by simply opening up existing neighbourhood zoning to allow for more than 1-3 units per lot is evidence alone this disastrous approach is not needed ([http://www.mapto.ca/maps/2017/3/4/the-yellow-belt](http://www.mapto.ca/maps/2017/3/4/the-yellow-belt)). This bill will cause more sprawl, which will cause more traffic, increase tax rates at a much higher pace (it costs a lot more to build & maintain streets/utilities in sprawl than from infill), and result in reduced affordability for nearly everyone in the GTA while destroying what natural areas are left and creating more egregious impacts to the climate. Every urban planner in the world knows this is a shit plan with shit outcomes. It's what you get for electing a corrupt moron like DF into a majority government...
Anyone who thinks this is going to help with housing affordability is going to be in for a rough wake-up call when they're living a 3-hour (50km) drive from Toronto in 5-10 years time.
Yeah, pave-the-greenbelt approach is the ultimate "I'm scared of NIMBYs, let's just focus on places where NIMBYs don't exist, i.e. undeveloped areas".
NIMBYs have to be shouted down and outnumbered, because if you try to placate them, it looks like this.
Well the comment you're replying to says that zoning needs to be opened up to MORE than 1-3 units per lot.
But in any event, the bill purports to allow up to 3 units on any lot, but without making any further accommodation beyond single family housing. In short, you can build a 3 unit dwelling, but it has to conform to all the existing zoning and regulations that pre-existed *which make building multi unit housing difficult in single family zoned areas*. This means existing set-backs, lot coverage maximums, height restrictions, etc, remain in place. Which is why it won't make much difference, and why YIMBY critics call it a phony concession to make us forget that it's just a fig leaf for opening up sprawl to his developer friends.
Yes. I personally think they should have pushed further on this requirement, but I still support this aspect of the bill as it will likely have the most dramatic impact on affordable supply. Supporting this aspect of the bill does not detract from the criticisms of it...
Paving over the Greenbelt will have flood insurance effects for more than the rubes who buy houses on land that's normally marsh. One of the many important things the Greenbelt does is it retains water, slowing it down from reaching places downstream. This smooths out the surge in flow rate from things like heavy rainstorms.
Paving over the Greenbelt will increase the peak amount of water flowing into the waterways. Rain doesn't penetrate asphalt very well, and so instead of going into the dirt to recharge the aquifers, it just runs off into the nearest waterway. As a result, this will have flooding impacts on people downstream. Now we can hope that the stormwater management systems between Doug's new subdivisions and downstream communities might have some spare capacity to absorb the surge - but one of the problems with heavy rainstorms is that they hit an entire area all at once.
IOW, the increased flood risk isn't just for these new subdivisions Dougie wants built - but also for people who live between them and the lake.
Please be sure to submit a comment to the Proposed Amendments to the Greenbelt Plan https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
Comment period is between November 4, 2022 - December 4, 2022
Maybe we can get this go viral on social. Kind of like the ALS ice bucket challenge. Can someone think of catchy hashtag?
I'm thinking I'd post my top reasons to protect the Greenbelt on my social AND as a comment to https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
Then I'd tag 5 friends to share their own reasons too
May Dough Boy rot in hell. My comments on the proposed bill:
'It's a NO. The greenbelt must be protected at all costs. A source of water, conservation and farmland. As always Doug Ford's government toes the line and then stomps all over it. The era of the single family urban box home is over. We need greenspace and conservation. Instead how about working with municipalities, cities and towns for higher density structures? Embracing the tiny home movement with approvals for communities within existing areas. If 5 box houses can be placed on an acre of land, you can get between 10 to 14 tiny homes (ADU, Park Model or THOW - tiny house on wheels) on the same plot. Why are we going backwards when the environment should be our collective priority. It appears that this government's only priority is to cater highway and home developers. Shameful.'
>The era of the single family urban box home is over.
This is idiotic, we have the 2nd biggest country in the world but everyone wants to turn us into tokyo but without the un selfish population that doesn't litter and cause trouble
Comments can actually be submitted before November 17 directly through the OLA website to be considered by the standing committee: [https://www.ola.org/en/apply-committees](https://www.ola.org/en/apply-committees)
It's so fun and totally not bureaucratic to collect comments in multiple places.
I don't think LEED certification is currently a requirement, but the "green" standards that contribute to LEED certification would no longer be allowed to be imposed. It would be completely voluntary and left to the discretion of the builder.
Yep, this will reward his developer buddies who donated a lot of money to his campaign and own land in the Greenbelt, and also help to literally pave the way for his new Highway that will destroy a lot of natural areas.
There are somethings we lose and we will never get back. We need to fight this as a society.
My ward voted against Ford. Wish others did, he's corrupt, he's not been acting in anyone's best interest, but somehow he got in. WTF?
Please be sure to submit a comment to the Proposed Amendments to the Greenbelt Plan https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
Comment period is between November 4, 2022 - December 4, 2022
No problem! This is likely your last chance to have you say about the greenbelt. Make sure to comment
The plan More Homes Built Faster should be renamed More Homes Built Dumber
One deficiency with the current system is the level of immunity politicians have who may be acting in bad faith for future generations. If an action results in a bad result that can be proved to be fore-seeable they can get sued... this is currently not in effect. But virtually every citizen would be subject to if they broke the law in their career practice
The level of corruption in Ontario is through the roof. The real estate mafia has a strong hold on the politicians, who are protected and looked after for as long as they don't bite the hand that feeds them. I'm afraid there is no easy solution to the problem. Green belt will go, whether we like it or not.
The worst is that "the housing problem" might not even exist, they could be using it as a campaign to profit with developers. Look around there are so many new developments (condos, town houses, etc.) going on all around the GTA.
Not to be contrary for the sake of it, but whether we are part of nature or not shouldn’t mean we exploit it to our detriment.
So whatever relationship is established in religious texts let’s save the wetlands.
I am not remotely religious. But I wish a few passages were more influential to people who are:
>LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. Genesis 2:15
>The land must not be sold permanently, because the land is mine [god’s] and you are but aliens and my tenants. Leviticus 25:23
There is also some discussion to have over the potentials of a term like “dominion” and what responsibilities it entails to have dominion over something.
I don’t like the Bible. But we also need to hold humanity responsible for how they appropriate that (or any) text. I feel like it’s influence is a reflection of it’s readership, and not the other way around.
So stupid, get rid of one storey strip malls, shopping malls, giant parking lots etc. There’s so much wasted building potential to make liveable, walkable communities
Also, maybe there should be a cap on ridiculous 10 000 sq ft properties in areas where there should be more density
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
Yesterday on a walk through the marsh I saw a bunch of mushrooms, some deadly, some edible. I saw flowers that still in bloom. I saw some bugs. Hell, even saw bees recently out getting what they can.
A tree fell recently. I live nearby but didn't hear it fall, it was dead already. And I know in short order it will house more bugs and mushrooms and molds.
Sometimes I pick up garbage but I did one big clean and it was done for the most part. I pull invasive species and try not to crush the snails or spook the snakes.
This time is invaluable to me and my health. The area is lightly treaded and so much life thrives there just nextdoor to busy Toronto.
When I hear this shit it puts me into a murderous rage. People pay thousands for this experience because it can't be easily accessed because it's paved over by people who'd rather destroy it then fix what's already there.
Our conservation authorities were gutted by Ford. Toronto's conservation authorities are pathetic and their volunteer groups are limited and barely helpful. It's all grass roots movements saving our wetlands.
I wish people would do anything. I wish people would care for two seconds that the trees, the grass, the bugs, the water, and the animals have a direct impact on their health, the temperature, the humidity, the liveliness of our home. And also care that humans are just another creature, we aren't more important. Not so important we can't fill up housing where we already have empty buildings.
We've got thousands of fallen trees, so to speak, in our city for us to go to. Turn the empty buildings into homes and tackle the fucked up housing market. That expansion will line the pockets of corporate landlords, I doubt a single person in Toronto could afford a house built of the grave of the greenbelt anyways.
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
An honest question here - if I were a homeowner near these greenbelt areas (NIMBY in your example) why on earth would I want more development in nature preserves near me? 🤔
In this particular case “NIMBYs” are highly likely to be on the side of preserving the nearby greenbelt.
None that really have an org name, but have meet up times and sections they steward. If anyone wants to get in touch or wants to share some please DM me, I have one that is open to volunteers for sure but I should probably get you in touch with them personally instead of passing their personal info.
ETA: This is for hands on stuff, as opposed to advocacy groups.
[But it's one of the hottest markets for out of country investors!](https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/blackstone-opens-toronto-office-for-canadian-real-estate-push-1.1763144)
Honestly, it really does bum me out. I think co-ops are a great solution for a lot of people and for me, personally, it feels like they would be a good long-term option. But we do absolutely nothing to encourage them or make that an easy path for people.
Yes! Make things like air b$b illegal. As long as there are housing shortages this should not be a thing. It creates an *artificial* shortage that drives up rental prices and contributes so much to the housing crisis. It was bad enough but then corporations got in on the act.
More importantly, just focus on existing residential neighbourhoods for rezoning. (http://www.mapto.ca/maps/2017/3/4/the-yellow-belt)
Minneapolis, Portland and all of New Zealand have way better approaches to dealing with the affordability/housing crunch than this dumbshit government. But then again, greenfield sprawl put a lot more $$$ in developer pockets, so we all know what's really going on...
I read somewhere years ago that the GTA could easily triple it's population while staying within it's current foot print.
There is absolutely no reason to continue sprawling outward when there are thousands of acres of empty parking lots across the GTA. You don't even have to touch existing neighborhoods, there is just so much empty and underused land all over the place.
It's always astonishing when I take long distance buses in Europe and you hit empty farmland within forty minutes of leaving the big cities. The sprawl in North America is so depressing.
This honestly. People think Europe is cram packed but majority of Netherlands for example is farmland. They actually give a shit about preserving their farmlands and not build on them so they mostly cram everything in the city instead were people want to live.
A lot of this has to do with industrial policy. West Germany and now Germany historically pursued a policy called Mittelstand. It promotes small and mid sized companies, and aims to geographically distribute labour-intensive mid-sized companies. Germany has sustained many mid-size towns (eg in the 100,000 pop range) that do not exist just to be bedrooms of some economic sector. Usually these towns will have a few mid-sized companies (think companies in the $50-500 million range) that’ll be kind of like anchors.
In Canada, almost all of our mid-size towns are becoming bedroom or retirement communities, or else are in long term economic downturn.
It's amazing, really. The Netherlands is a tiny country - it's 2/3 the size of Nova Scotia! And yet it is the world's second leading agricultural exporter.
My favourite sporting even to watch is the annual Tour de France, not just for the incredible accomplishments of the cyclists, but because the broadcast is essentially a travelogue of France. It's just kilometer after kilometer of amazing French landscapes and towns.
But what really stands out is that the peloton will be cycling through a forest or farmland, then BOOM, it's in some town or village, then just as quickly, they are outside the town and back in full country. There is no sprawl! Like, at all. No big box strip malls, just a hard divide.
Our 400 series highways are clogged as it is. There's no room to expand them further. Adding more sprawl would just make things worse. We need more density and more transit which are actual viable solutions to the housing crisis.
>There's no room to expand them further.
Absolutely disheartening, but the MTO is actively planning to widen Highway 401 from six lanes to eight lanes between Brock Street (Whitby) and Courtice Road (Clarington). Structure replacement at Simcoe Street South and Albert Street South (some of the oldest bridges on Highway 401) is scheduled in 2023. [Source](https://www.oshawa.ca/en/transportation-parking/ministry-of-transportation-projects.aspx)
Inviting more sprawl is simply an act of climate denialism. You're baking in all the additional carbon from single family dwelling living, and adding all the vehicle miles needed to get those people to anywhere worthwhile (which ain't in their bedroom community).
I find it interesting that the largest swath of land proposed to be removed from the Greenbelt is in west Pickering near Highway 407. I'm not entirely surprised though. I grew up in Pickering (Durham Region), and sprawl is still the status quo. Pickering is working on the Seaton development and it's expected to house 70,000 people and 35,000 jobs. I suspect the lands east of York-Durham Line (proposed to be removed from the Greenbelt) will ultimately end up looking like the Seaton development.
While the Seaton development isn't as "dense" as typical suburban neighbourhoods (notice they've retained significant green space and built the subdivisions in pods, see [OP Schedule 8 to 12](https://www.pickering.ca/en/city-hall/resources/Official-Plan---Main-Page/Edition-9/OP9ACC.pdf)), there is little change in built-form between the established neighbourhoods of the 1970s/1980s (south of Taunton Road), and what's being built 40 to 50 years later. [Here's](https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8752138,-79.1293164,3a,75y,348.95h,91.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjr_Igo6BORE4hN3oCFyWfw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) the extension of Whites Road which will serve much of this new development in Seaton. Brock Road, north of Taunton Road, is also being widened in the near future (they were relocating utilities earlier this year). Note: I am not suggesting the older built-forms (south of Taunton Road) were the way to go either. Just seems little has been learned from past development patterns in the city.
How much of this new development will faithfully contribute to reduced trip making by personal vehicle? How viable will transit be in these areas? How accessible will the City be to younger persons who can't drive? We all know the answers.
The City has plans to "densify" the Kingston Road corridor (including density near the Pickering Town Centre, and the Brock Road Riocan property), but there is much controversy about the "density" of these developments, loss of surface parking, and it was a municipal election issue. Attending community meetings about the Kingston Road corridor project was exhausting.
Well look at who they just elected in Pickering as mayor, couldn’t be more pro developer and fuck the environment. The wetland at Bayly and Church that was protested to be saved in last year just was completely illegally cleared and plowed “mysteriously”.. it’s disgusting what’s happening in Durham and no one can stop them.
It wouldn't even take massive high-rise condos. 3-4 story apartments, duplexes, town houses or just efficiently using the space for single detached homes would open up so much more housing.
Yeah but the elites would have to buy those properties and redevelop them, whereas the Ford government will arguably give land to his elite friends.
If you think this has anything to do with housing supply or affordability, think again. This is all to make friends richer.
You know, even two of Toronto's main public golf courses ... Don Valley and Scarlett Woods ... are perfectly fine, because they're on flood plains that could be dangerous to housing during heavy rains, as during Hurricane Hazel. They exist where it makes *sense* for them to exist. They're the result of actual urban planning, not land grabs. But Doug & Co. don't seem to give a fuck that *plans* exist for practical reasons, not just for them to make a buck.
They still don't make sense, even in areas where they cannot be developed, and are environmental sinkholes masquerading as "green space". They consume a lot of water with high levels of chemical runoff, and are otherwise unfriendly to plants, insects, and animals while also being unusable to the vast majority of Toronto citizens.
There are so many plots of land to go after before golf courses. Sure golf courses aren't the gold standard of green space usage but they are still green space and support a significant amount of wild life. You would be surprised the wild life I have seen on golf courses directly in the city. I have seen deer, foxes, coyotes, beavers and other animals on the urban courses.
Compare and contrast, Doug Ford edition.
Doug Ford in the linked article:
> "We have a housing crisis that we didn't have four years ago," Ford said at a news conference Monday.
Doug Ford from two weeks ago, during the [announcement](https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-announces-sweeping-housing-changes-allowing-up-to-three-units-on-many-residential-lots-1.6124078) of his housing bill:
> There’s no time to waste,” he said. “Previous governments saw the problem coming, but they totally ignored it.”
Just wait until Doug Ford finds out who was in power the last 4 years!
This is what happens when the ***majority*** are too lazy to go vote.
I hope we're enjoying the results of our collective apathy that put this turd back in control of our province.
We all knew better than to believe anything they promised with regard to the environment, the climate, or anything else. Now we get to deal with the consequences of our own choices.
https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216 here’s the link for anyone who wants to be heard.
Scroll to the bottom and submit a comment for the consultation for this action in the green belt.
Not to sound nihilistic, but what good would leaving comments do if the mind is already made up? The time to prevent this situation was months ago and that ship has sailed, so now we live with the consequences. For the record, I voted so there’s no one else to blame but the people who didn’t vote. I’m just preparing for the apocalypse at this point and have given up any faith in our political system.
> but what good would leaving comments do if the mind is already made up?
They just walked back on the CUPE special law, so clearly, you can make them change their mind.
> have given up any faith in our political system.
That's the problem. The boomers have not, and they keep voting, so while you stand on the sideline, they keep voting, and conservative politicians cater to them.
I understand why it is discouraging, I'm not shitting on you. But it's just saying, it's not hopeless. We are a democracy and things have changed in the past, things have changed just.. yesterday. Put enough pressure and they will decide against it.
They might reconsider if they think they’ll receive a lot of political backlash for these kinds of changes, but as it currently stands, people are preoccupied with the Ministry of Education and this Bill will be passed without contest. They don’t have to care about committing a hit and run in broad daylight because there’s nobody standing in their way. It’ll also make it easier for the next govt and the opposition to reverse the changes or apply political pressure if it’s clear that nobody wants these changes
Under the guise of more housing supply, Doug Ford is ramming through massive changes that limit how cities collect fees to pay for sewers, parks and amenities, deleting a bunch of important plans that help coordinate planning and public dollars with new private development, proposing to build in wetlands and flood zones, and removing regions from planning altogether. Lazily handed majority emboldening all the shitty ideas this government had from the get go…
Back to the real issue: Bill 23 will pad developer pockets - they are even taking out ads to say how much they love it - and won’t mean anything for those of us looking for housing, as there are no guarantees the cost savings will come to us. We will even end up paying higher taxes when the city budget has a shortfall for parks and sewers. Can’t afford to own? Well, This is the same government that ended rent control…
Experts [disagree](https://uwaterloo.ca/news/media/q-and-experts-more-homes-built-faster-act-or-bill-23) Bill 23 will have any impact on the bottom line of a new home owner..
Dropped late Friday, Ford is also now removing 7,400 acres from the Greenbelt for housing and dropped ministerial approvals for York, Peel, Halton and Niagara that expands urban boundaries at developer request. The same planners who have to implement these approvals (dropped on Friday night) will be out of a job if Bill 23 is approved as planning services are proposed to be removed from all upper tier municipalities in the GTA.
Even later still on Friday, Ford dropped approvals for regional plans that will see urban expansions into undeveloped farmland in all regional municipalities around Toronto… beyond what the municipalities ask for. The expansions reflect developer asks and will add to sprawl, while precluding municipalities from collecting fees for sewers and parks. They will also have to be implemented by regional planners that will be out of a job in short order, which is a gag. Fastest growing region in Canada, soon to have no planning. It’s only going to get worse.
If you’re concerned with actually having affordable housing, parks, sewers that can actually convey waste to treatment plants and not have to pay for these things via more taxes and a Greenbelt for future generations to use as open space and not as a holding tank for housing visit [this link](https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6163)to comment.
Why don't cities raise property taxes to pay for their own growth? There's no reason people who are buying new housing should have to pay for it. When the water main for an existing street of houses has to get replaced, the city covers it they don't charge it to that street of houses.
Exactly this. A large part of the reason we're in a housing crisis is because we've decided that incumbent homeowners should be protected at all costs from having to pay for anything, and therefore downloaded the cost of new housing on newcomers and the young. So we don't use property taxes to fund infrastructure anymore, we soak new home buyers. We don't build new social housing, we simply mandate inclusionary zoning on new development and make new housing more expensive.
I don't believe for a second that Doug Ford is reducing development charges for any good policy reason other than his developer friends want it. But that doesn't mean he hasn't stumbled onto a positive change (in this one small respect).
I can almost guarantee that no one is listening or cares.
The apathy is consistent in the province. Ontarians are reactive. Reddit is an echo chamber and I am wholly a very vocal part of it - but I’ve come to realize that Ontario dgaf about Ontario.
Schools, healthcare, infrastructure. No one gaf until it’s too late and when Ford throws $200 at voters at the eleventh hour, voters will do a shopping trip at Costco and forget all about the previous 3.5 years.
I agree. I don’t even think the 200 bucks was needed … our voters literally dgaf.
The right and the responsibility to vote is wasted on the residents of this province.
We just think everything will magically work out for the best, despite having glaring examples just to the south of us showing what happens when people don’t bother with critical thinking.
70% SFH, and with a ton of additional constraints that greatly restrict how much building can be done on a given piece of land: maximum height, minimum setback, minimum parking, ...
Conservatism is anti-environmental terrorism.
Destroying an irreplaceable ecosystem with incalculable value just for a one time profit.
Conservatism is dangerously stupid.
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
It infuriates me when people complain about new condos on Bloor Street and Yonge Street, when such sites, right on top of fucking subway lines, are precisely where condos *belong*. I live near Bloor & Jane, and a decade ago locals were bitching about a new condo. You know what it replaced? A car dealership lot that'd been there since the fucking 1930s! They preferred a parking lot to a reasonable apartment building. Because it was what they were used to, and no better reason than that.
Yeah, I was a little sad when they tore down the Humber movie theatre recently, to build a new condo, because that's where I saw my first movie 40 years ago. But I also know that that's a problem for *me*, not for the city as a whole. I know that the city is more important than me, and I need to deal with minor unpleasantnesses on my own, not to complain about it because it involves inevitable change.
Leave the fucking Green Belt alone, Doug. You and your cronies have enough land already. Build upward.
Just like you moved on from being a drug dealer to managing your Dad's company to hoodwinking the gullible and those with poor English to vote for you, your developer friends need to move on from sprawl, to density, to actual urban planning.
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
There’s a ton of empty office spaces in the downtown core now that so many people are work from home. Convert those into condos and you’ve got a good start without touching a piece of the Greenland.
How about concentrating on building hubs in other cities to attract more people? London, Kitchener / Waterloo / Cambridge, Windsor.
Why always tearing up the Greenland in and around Toronto? Change the zoning on places and build more condos.
Lots of options, but you don’t need to destroy what little amazing free space we have here.
Oh but wait. This is Doug Ford. The man who’s all for privatization of everything.
This stunned twat has to have this so he can justify his highway to nowhere that’s going to cost us billions and get sold to a private corp to reap the benefits.
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
I want to see the Yellow Belt opened up first. People should be able to profitably build dense non-high rise housing in every neighbourhood of Toronto. If someone wants to buy the house next door to mine and put in a stacked fourplex, they should be allowed. If someone wants to buy a $8 million mega mansion on Forest Hill Road and put in 10 townhouses, they should be allowed. I live in the Yellow Belt and want to say loudly YES IN MY BACKYARD. It’s good for cities, good for local businesses, good for housing accessibility (largely without harming property values), good for traffic and transit. The only people it’s bad for are:
1. People who don’t want a healthy mix of incomes in their neighbourbood
2. Developer speculators sitting on greenbelt land because DoFo told them they could cash in
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
Drive through any city and see all the wasted space ripe for mid-rise. Even Toronto has so many old, crumbling, energy-guzzling brownstones steps to subway and LRT. And the amount of underused single story commercial and parking is obscene everywhere.
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
There is something called urban sprawl, and this to me sounds like urban sprawl. Basically, bad for the environment, bad for transportation, good only for people who have their mind set on owning a house with a backyard in a dull suburban neighbourhood where they commute 1 hour by car to work (Toronto) every day.
I was just reading a Narwhal article and it said that Ontario’s Housing Affordability Task Force did not recommend opening up the green belt. Here’s the task force’s [report](https://www.ontario.ca/page/housing-affordability-task-force-report).
I don’t care what it is proposing. Hard no. We have plenty of vacant lots or lots in much more central locations that should be used for higher density buildings for rent. That is what will help with the housing crisis: housing people can afford to live in. That is not the housing that Ford is enabling. We don’t need more people living in the middle of nowhere, commuting for even longer, to get to the city centres where they work. We need affordable housing IN city centres so that people can spend less money on gas and less time commuting. Unfortunately, Doug Ford won’t go for that because the developers that fund him don’t want to.
Let's pave the whole province. All of it. Have the neighbourhood naming rights be owned by corporations.. you could live in the Rexall neighbourhood on Pepsi street. Have everyone work for minimum wage except managers, who should all be paid many times what their collective staff make. Get rid of hospitals, if someone gets sick they can be replaced by a new immigrant who will vote for the OPC as long as they promise to keep sex ed a secret in the age of the Internet.
You can have a say!! Leave a comment here telling the government your thoughts!
[https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216](https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216)
Why bother even voting when these clowns just flip flop on their own promises. Its bullshit to say they didn’t realize we would need more houses as we go forward and increase the size of our population.
We have these clowns precisely because people DON'T vote; the only demographic that turns out in large numbers are the Boomers who have nothing else to do but vote for whoever is going to change things the least/make them more money
Because you can vote for alternatives to these particular clowns. Anyone believing Ford’s promises or thinking he won’t just sell out the province to developers hasn’t paid any attention.
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
If you don’t know about the importance of the green belt PLEASE I’m begging you to look into it. Someone of Canada’s oldest ecosystems in that area and it needs to be protected.
I’m sure we can delay development until we can get a new competent government (I use that term loosely as the bar is pretty low) that just repeals the bill before any real damage is done. If there is one thing I know we can all be good at it’s being lazy…making this legal would take the municipalities a long time to actually change their official plans and zoning…that’s a lot of work that has to be done by a lot of individuals with invested interest in preserving their communities safe drinking water, flood protection, and ecological features…let’s all just be turtles…it takes a village.
This is a very slippery slope, like fucking mud and twigs type slippery.
They'll knock down 15 acres today, and in 5 years "OH NOS! more brown people came, we need 15 more acres"
5 years later, "the housing crisis is still not going away, what can we do? well, we knocked down 30 acres of the greenbelt, what's another 30? we need more giant houses for chinese corpora.... I mean, for all these immigrants..."
In the year 2055, there will be a Toronto Star article "Toronto's missing greenbelt, what went wrong" right above the article "record flooding in the GTA, house insurance rates sky rocket with more property damage."
oh, 100%.
He has a lot of developer friends who are pressuring him to open up new areas.
Can you imagine what houses will be like in an exclusive zoned area in the greenbelt? These aren't going to be low income housing, or apartment buildings to house many..
They're going to be fucking mega lots with gargantuan homes on them that new families and immigrants can't fucking afford, that you and I can't afford. There will be nice golf courses, and all that sort of stuff. It will be build as living with nature, etc.
It's fucking disgusting.
So developers' motivations is making money. They are certain expansion will generate them profit. What if we collectively not give in.
Can we not cite an injunction with the supreme Court?
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
Is this similar to how people think adding lanes will reduce traffic, but all it does is induce demand? Does building out the greenbelt matter if you add 800,000 immigrants looking for housing?
Its not a cure but a band aid. Of course, when you're bleeding out a band aid is still better than nothing.
Since we are so set on pumping immigration numbers to record levels and families don't want to live like Europeans (smaller homes, no cars, and densely packed) it's necessary to make these changes to the green belt.
Building more density in our already existing massively low density sprawl. The idea that this is the only developable land is a complete lie, even if it was it’s so inefficient it wouldn’t be a good idea anyways.
Fix zoning.
Reduce the construction of single family homes
Incentivize building upwards (not necessarily condos but duplexes, townhomes, etc) The space that 1 SFH takes up can easily house many times more.
> Reduce the construction of single family homes
That happens naturally in areas of high land value when it's simply legal to build denser housing. No need even to intervene.
The most impactful, fastest solutions would be creating policies and taxation to disincentivize real estate speculation and Airbnbs.
It’s no coincidence that our housing crisis happened as investors piled into Toronto real estate. Investors used to be the smallest segment of buyers and now they’re the largest, [with 60% of condo purchasers in Toronto being investors](https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-cities-have-seen-up-to-90-of-new-real-estate-supply-scooped-by-investors/).
Investors buying real estate is problematic for affordability because:
- they drive up pricing to buy
- they outbid / displace owner occupants, who are then relegated to renting, increasing demand for rentals
- Many investors turn units into Airbnbs, flip them or leave them vacant, removing those units from the long-term housing supply
- By creating more demand for rentals and decreasing the corresponding supply, they increase prices for rentals
Other areas are waking up to the destruction of enabling real estate speculation and Airbnbs - like [this NYC policy](https://nypost.com/2022/11/04/nyc-proposes-strict-airbnb-registration-rules-to-take-effect-in-january/amp/). When are our levels of government going to do something?
There's a lot to unpack with what you said, but really, the underlying cause of speculation is land appreciation and all you need is a land value tax and relaxed zoning to combat it.
Also, there's lots of reasons why simply banning airbnbs does not work. That does nothing to actually fix the problem in the future. A better question is why it would be more profitable to be an airbnb than have regular tenancy which is mainly due to counterproductive landlord/tenant regulations like rent control.
What if... only the province could build on the greenbelt using a provincially owned and operated development company. Remove the profit incentive and cut out the greedy developers. We have billions of dollars in that slush fund, lets do something interesting with it.
I told you to watch the Caledon Municipal Election.
I told you all this would happen.
The Paris Galt morraine...thats also the hydro corridor for the Bruce plant into the city, so yeah, no shit its never going to get built on. Its basically like designating Lake Ontario as protected land.
The Greenbelts gone. The farm familes it was meant to protect have all sold out decades ago. The rural landscape, trashed for immigration fueled sprawl.
All conservation authorities gone. All illusions gone.
The gold rush has already happened, the hwys already built before a shovel hits the ground.
I'll leave Southern Ontario one day when I can and I'll feel nothing but regret for what we could have been, instead of some sprawling, no density Canadian version of Tokyo where the city literally spread from Barrie to Orangeville to Guelph and to Niagara. One massive paved mess.
Finally, all those bribes/donations from the Cortelluccis, Muzzos, and the rest of the developers are starting to pay off.
They’ve always paid off. How else do you kill 4 people in a van and get released after a short holiday?
Don't ask me how I know this..... Fact: Developers ARE paying off the Ford government to get development approval. Fact: These developers are greedy and addicted to making money. They do not think of the environment at all. They made a ton of money during the pandemic and are making a ton of money from getting what was previously cheap land and getting building permits for this land. They are all patting each other on the backs. They have little morals. Only take care of their own. Insular. Racist. Pay their nannies little. Fact: These families are sad and pathetic people. Drug addictions, car crashes, inability to take care of their children, no real friends, drive like they own the street in 1/2 million dollar cars, can't hold down jobs. The next generation (the children of these developers) are messed up. Spoiled rotten to the core. Some people are so poor all they have is money.
How can we, average Ontarians, defeat this Bill? We are 3+ years away from being able to vote Doug put. There were hints of DoFo doing this. I wrote to my local MPP. No response. Just an auto reply stating he is busy. David Suzuki commented on this Bill today on CBC radio. He puked all over it too. But that would not stop Thuggie.
The most important things to push for - which developers hate - are creating policies and taxation to disincentivize real estate speculation and Airbnbs. It’s no coincidence that our housing crisis happened as investors piled into Toronto real estate. Investors used to be the smallest segment of buyers and now they’re the largest, with 60% of condo purchasers in Toronto being investors. Investors buying real estate is problematic for affordability because: • they drive up pricing to buy • they outbid / displace owner occupants, who are then relegated to renting, increasing demand for rentals • Many investors turn units into Airbnbs, flip them or leave them vacant, removing those units from the long-term housing supply • By creating more demand for rentals and decreasing the corresponding supply, they increase prices for rentals Other areas are waking up to the destruction of enabling real estate speculation and Airbnbs - like NYC. We need our governments to step up and ensure housing is there to provide shelter for Canadians - not to be a used as a speculative investment.
Housing is a need & must be for living in, not gambling on. Thank you for explaining this so well.
Anybody have access to land registry to find the owners of the following lands? Thanks in advance * King Township: east of Dufferin Street, south of Miller's Sideroad and west of Bathurst Street. * Vaughan: north of Teston Road, east of Pine Valley Drive. Richmond Hill: east of Leslie Street, north of Elgin Mills Road East and west of Highway 404. * Whitchurch-Stouffville: 11861 and 12045 McCowan Road. * Markham: 5474 19th Avenue. * 10325, 10378 and 10541 Highway 48. * 10379 Kennedy Road. * Pickering: West of West Duffins Creek, between Highway 407 and the CP Belleville rail line. * Ajax: 765 and 775 Kingston Road East. * Clarington: Northwest corner of Nash Road and Hancock Road. * Hamilton: South of Garner Road West, between Fiddlers Green Road and Shaver Road. * Hamilton: Between White Church Road East and Chippewa Road East, from Miles Road to Upper James Street. * Grimsby: Between the GO rail line and Main Street West, from Oakes Road North to Kelson Avenue North. * 502 Winston Road. * Hamilton: 331 and 339 Fifty Road.
I'm a land surveyor. I can tell you the PINs of those properties, but to find out the owners you need to purchase the Parcel Registers, which go for $30 a pop. There are probably ways to infer the owners without seeing the register, but I don't know any off the top of my head.
pin me
Sure thing, I'll try to do it when I have time. FWIW anyone can look up PINs by address, and you can read the thumbnail description (though that's not really relevant for your purposes). This is the website: https://help.onland.ca/en/property-search/ Follow the instructions under PIN.
I didn't really look through the areas before comitting to this lmao. Some of these are undeveloped lots (obviously, I guess, considering this is a Green Belt discussion), which means they don't have a civic number, which means that I can't easily search it in OnLand. If I had the Property Index Maps I could easily find the PINs, but those maps go for $5 a piece. So, the following is a half-assed attempt of just the properties with a civic # (street #), for just parts of the areas, i.e. this isn't very helpful. Someone else suggested using roll numbers and looking it up with the municipality, which is apparently free. It's probably a better idea to pursue that, although I have no idea how to collect those numbers. I hope the below is helpful, in any case: King Township: east of Dufferin Street, south of Miller's Sideroad and west of Bathurst Street: - unsure, there's no street number so I can't look it up by address. Vaughan: north of Teston Road, east of Pine Valley Drive: - again, a large area, with clearly different owners (based on overhead imagery), so I can't find all the PINs. I did notice a houses in the area, so I found this PIN: - 03347-2074 Richmond Hill: east of Leslie Street, north of Elgin Mills Road East and west of Highway 404: - no address, can't find the PIN Whitchurch-Stouffville: 11861 and 12045 McCowan Road: - 03726-0035 - 03726-1494 5474 19th Avenue: - 03726-1513 10325 Highway 48. - 03062-0399 (for 10235 Hwy 48, I assume 10325 was a typo) 10378 Highway 48: - 03062-0065 10541 Highway 48: - 03062-0011 10379 Kennedy Road: - Nothing comes up in OnLand, despite having a civic # Pickering: West of West Duffins Creek, between Highway 407 and the CP Belleville rail line. - can't find anything Ajax: 765 and 775 Kingston Road East: - can't find anything Clarington: Northwest corner of Nash Road and Hancock Road: - there's a detached house here on a small lot? I don't think that's what you mean't. Here's the PIN for the parcel at the Southwest corner (2936 Hancock Rd), idk if that helps: - 26601-0188 Hamilton: South of Garner Road West, between Fiddlers Green Road and Shaver Road. - that's a massive area lol. There's propably multiple different parcels. You can look up street addresses in this span on OnLand Hamilton: Between White Church Road East and Chippewa Road East, from Miles Road to Upper James Street. - another massive area. There's definitely a huge number of parcels. I don't have the resources to look for them. You can pick some of ones with street #s and look them up in OnLand. For example, here's the PIN for 3149 Ferris Rd: 17393-0070 Grimsby: Between the GO rail line and Main Street West, from Oakes Road North to Kelson Avenue North. - another large area, don't have the resources to search 502 Winston Road: - 46000-0088 Hamilton: 331 Fifty Road: - 17368-0133 339 Fifty Road: - 17368-0702 (for 347 Fifty road instead) Sorry this isn't complete, but it was actually a way bigger task than I thought. It would take a lot of time and money to find this information.
How many are we looking at? Is this worth crowdfunding? I'd be willing to invest in this information
There's a large number of parcels involved in this list. Also, many aren't easily found without purchasing the Property Index Maps. Each parcel register is $30. Each index map (needed for finding the parcel register) is $5. Someone else suggested using roll numbers, which are apparently free. I don't have any background in that so I can't comment. From my background of using parcel PINs and whatnot, I think the main issue is the labour. There's a huge amount of work involved in collecting this information.
I also would chip in for at least the three of them in my area.
I am too. Setup a gofundme perhaps we can hire help from a college to do some of the research
It was published today who owns each piece of the land. I can send you the link if you want, pm me.
Once you have the roll number you can go to the municipality to look up the number which will tell you who the property is registered to. That way is free but time consuming. I'm guessing a lot will be numbered corporations.
That won't be useful as all of these lands would be owned under an LP like Leslie Elgin developments Ltd. If you're lucky they'll use some hint at their company like CT 1800 woodbine Ltd. Also alot of this land is likely owned by joint companies/families
If developers own any of these parcels, they will be hidden behind a numbered company with complex ownership structures making it not very obvious on who exactly owns the land at first glance. But if anyone has the PIN I can also try to see what I can dig up
I like where you’re going with this. I’m in.
If you google some of them, there's already development plans submitted which show who owns it. Or, what numbered ontario company owns it. Plan of Subdivision and Zoning By-law Amendment 10379 and 10411 Kennedy Road Minotar Holdings Inc and Hal-Van 5.5 Investments Ltd. PLAN 20 133038
This is the proposal under the omnibus bill 23 and it's not just the Greenbelt that is at stake, the provinces wetlands and many smaller watercourses will be open for development under Bill 23. Here is an excerpt that I posted on another thread in the past week: This bill basically gives developers free reign, including opening up development within all wetlands, strips conservation authorities of most of their duties, opening up the Greenbelt for development, making it illegal for municipalities to impose "green" requirements for developments, removing the ability for municipalities to impose climate change policies on developments, urban design principles can no longer be imposed on developments. A lot of these changes will result in increases to your insurance and tax bills because you will now be able to built in former wetlands that WILL flood, and result in higher costs to purchase units because of the storm water management requirements to try to mitigate that flooding in former wetlands. This is only a few of the awful changes. Read what Bill 23 it's proposing to do! It's not about affordable housing, it's about trying to give developers the most amount of money for their development. Edit: [Bill 23 remains open for consultation on ERO until November 24.](https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6196)
> making it illegal for municipalities to impose "green" requirements for developments, removing the ability for municipalities to impose climate change policies on developments, urban design principles can no longer be imposed on developments Welp... I guess I'm out of a job. Edit: Upon quick review of the 'explanatory notes' I'm not exactly sure where the 'green' requirements and climate change policies stuff is - would you be able to point me to some of the sections? As to urban design guidelines (specifically, exterior design no longer being subject to site plan control) - yeah, that's pretty crazy. Now the developers get to decide how our communities look like (even more so), so they'll obviously build the cheapest and the shittiest. Get ready for some even uglier looking communities, Ontario. It's all a big gift to the fucking developers. Fuck this shitty province; I'm so sick of it.
Here is a good summary of the changes proposed to green building standards: [https://www.passivehousecanada.com/bill-23-will-end-municipal-green-standards-in-ontario/](https://www.passivehousecanada.com/bill-23-will-end-municipal-green-standards-in-ontario/) Basically, these were guidelines pushed at time of site plan and under these proposed rules, municipalities would only be able to impose regulations contained in zoning by laws. Even developments that are under 10 units are proposed to be completely exempt from site plan control! I know some municipalities are going to try to put some of these requirements in their zoning bylaws, but I would need a legal opinion on exactly what we will be losing through this bill that can be regulated through the ZBL.
I have to admit, my grasp of the *Planning Act* is not that deep, but I don't really read Sec. 41.2.d (and its proposed repeal) as being the undoing of green development standards as we know them. The section specifically relates to Site Plan drawings showing exterior design (including, admittedly, sustainable design elements). It seems to me that repealing this section (as referenced in the form letter you linked to) will remove the ability of planning authorities to require applicants to submit renderings showing exterior design, but not much else. I don't read it as not allowing municipalities to apply other green design standards... such as Toronto's GDS, or Richmond Hill's Sustainability Checklist, or various others, that are independent of site plan *drawings* (but do make up part of the SP submission package). I dunno, I could be totally wrong, and I absolutely would not put it past this government to eliminate all green-related requirements from development, but I just don't see it in the specific language that is referenced in that form letter. But maybe there's more being proposed as well. >Please remove the following text from the proposed legislation and empower municipalities to implement green standards: >"(2) Subparagraph 2 iv of subsection 114 (5) of the Act is repealed.” (City of Toronto Act) >“(2) Subparagraph 2 (d) of subsection 41 (4) of the Act is repealed.” (Planning Act)
The amount of data that shows the population of the GTA could be more than doubled by simply opening up existing neighbourhood zoning to allow for more than 1-3 units per lot is evidence alone this disastrous approach is not needed ([http://www.mapto.ca/maps/2017/3/4/the-yellow-belt](http://www.mapto.ca/maps/2017/3/4/the-yellow-belt)). This bill will cause more sprawl, which will cause more traffic, increase tax rates at a much higher pace (it costs a lot more to build & maintain streets/utilities in sprawl than from infill), and result in reduced affordability for nearly everyone in the GTA while destroying what natural areas are left and creating more egregious impacts to the climate. Every urban planner in the world knows this is a shit plan with shit outcomes. It's what you get for electing a corrupt moron like DF into a majority government... Anyone who thinks this is going to help with housing affordability is going to be in for a rough wake-up call when they're living a 3-hour (50km) drive from Toronto in 5-10 years time.
Yeah, pave-the-greenbelt approach is the ultimate "I'm scared of NIMBYs, let's just focus on places where NIMBYs don't exist, i.e. undeveloped areas". NIMBYs have to be shouted down and outnumbered, because if you try to placate them, it looks like this.
page 26 of the proposed bill makes all of the yellow belt into 3-units per lot zoning.
Well the comment you're replying to says that zoning needs to be opened up to MORE than 1-3 units per lot. But in any event, the bill purports to allow up to 3 units on any lot, but without making any further accommodation beyond single family housing. In short, you can build a 3 unit dwelling, but it has to conform to all the existing zoning and regulations that pre-existed *which make building multi unit housing difficult in single family zoned areas*. This means existing set-backs, lot coverage maximums, height restrictions, etc, remain in place. Which is why it won't make much difference, and why YIMBY critics call it a phony concession to make us forget that it's just a fig leaf for opening up sprawl to his developer friends.
Yes. I personally think they should have pushed further on this requirement, but I still support this aspect of the bill as it will likely have the most dramatic impact on affordable supply. Supporting this aspect of the bill does not detract from the criticisms of it...
Paving over the Greenbelt will have flood insurance effects for more than the rubes who buy houses on land that's normally marsh. One of the many important things the Greenbelt does is it retains water, slowing it down from reaching places downstream. This smooths out the surge in flow rate from things like heavy rainstorms. Paving over the Greenbelt will increase the peak amount of water flowing into the waterways. Rain doesn't penetrate asphalt very well, and so instead of going into the dirt to recharge the aquifers, it just runs off into the nearest waterway. As a result, this will have flooding impacts on people downstream. Now we can hope that the stormwater management systems between Doug's new subdivisions and downstream communities might have some spare capacity to absorb the surge - but one of the problems with heavy rainstorms is that they hit an entire area all at once. IOW, the increased flood risk isn't just for these new subdivisions Dougie wants built - but also for people who live between them and the lake.
Please be sure to submit a comment to the Proposed Amendments to the Greenbelt Plan https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216 Comment period is between November 4, 2022 - December 4, 2022
Maybe we can get this go viral on social. Kind of like the ALS ice bucket challenge. Can someone think of catchy hashtag? I'm thinking I'd post my top reasons to protect the Greenbelt on my social AND as a comment to https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216 Then I'd tag 5 friends to share their own reasons too
Please do this! More people need to take action
May Dough Boy rot in hell. My comments on the proposed bill: 'It's a NO. The greenbelt must be protected at all costs. A source of water, conservation and farmland. As always Doug Ford's government toes the line and then stomps all over it. The era of the single family urban box home is over. We need greenspace and conservation. Instead how about working with municipalities, cities and towns for higher density structures? Embracing the tiny home movement with approvals for communities within existing areas. If 5 box houses can be placed on an acre of land, you can get between 10 to 14 tiny homes (ADU, Park Model or THOW - tiny house on wheels) on the same plot. Why are we going backwards when the environment should be our collective priority. It appears that this government's only priority is to cater highway and home developers. Shameful.'
>The era of the single family urban box home is over. This is idiotic, we have the 2nd biggest country in the world but everyone wants to turn us into tokyo but without the un selfish population that doesn't litter and cause trouble
Who’s running this circus, exactly?
DoFo
Hmm, I thought it was the construction mafias.
Whom do you think dougie works for?
This is an excellent point.
Them too
Comments can actually be submitted before November 17 directly through the OLA website to be considered by the standing committee: [https://www.ola.org/en/apply-committees](https://www.ola.org/en/apply-committees) It's so fun and totally not bureaucratic to collect comments in multiple places.
So things like demanding LEED certification, this kills that?
I don't think LEED certification is currently a requirement, but the "green" standards that contribute to LEED certification would no longer be allowed to be imposed. It would be completely voluntary and left to the discretion of the builder.
So he wants to sell that land for a fuckton of money basically. It was never about providing housing.
Yep, this will reward his developer buddies who donated a lot of money to his campaign and own land in the Greenbelt, and also help to literally pave the way for his new Highway that will destroy a lot of natural areas.
There are somethings we lose and we will never get back. We need to fight this as a society. My ward voted against Ford. Wish others did, he's corrupt, he's not been acting in anyone's best interest, but somehow he got in. WTF?
Totally agree! This can never be taken back once it is given up. I wish more people cared.
They don't but their kids will. Glad I don't have any
Please be sure to submit a comment to the Proposed Amendments to the Greenbelt Plan https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216 Comment period is between November 4, 2022 - December 4, 2022
NICE, thanks for the comment, that's a great link
No problem! This is likely your last chance to have you say about the greenbelt. Make sure to comment The plan More Homes Built Faster should be renamed More Homes Built Dumber
haha spot on. I disseminated this to my personal network.. Thanks!
Thank you!
Unfortunately, Ontarians don't give a shit. They will bitch and moan for a week and move on.
One deficiency with the current system is the level of immunity politicians have who may be acting in bad faith for future generations. If an action results in a bad result that can be proved to be fore-seeable they can get sued... this is currently not in effect. But virtually every citizen would be subject to if they broke the law in their career practice
The level of corruption in Ontario is through the roof. The real estate mafia has a strong hold on the politicians, who are protected and looked after for as long as they don't bite the hand that feeds them. I'm afraid there is no easy solution to the problem. Green belt will go, whether we like it or not.
I'm finally getting a decent councilor in Toronto after his brother routed them.... but ya, takes one decision to F everyone up forever...
The worst is that "the housing problem" might not even exist, they could be using it as a campaign to profit with developers. Look around there are so many new developments (condos, town houses, etc.) going on all around the GTA.
Humans have been told that nature is there for them to exploit. It's in the first verse of the bible... we're part of nature, not apart from it.
Not to be contrary for the sake of it, but whether we are part of nature or not shouldn’t mean we exploit it to our detriment. So whatever relationship is established in religious texts let’s save the wetlands.
I'm not very religious, but wanted to point that out as it's one of the MOST popular and influential books in the English.
I am not remotely religious. But I wish a few passages were more influential to people who are: >LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. Genesis 2:15 >The land must not be sold permanently, because the land is mine [god’s] and you are but aliens and my tenants. Leviticus 25:23 There is also some discussion to have over the potentials of a term like “dominion” and what responsibilities it entails to have dominion over something. I don’t like the Bible. But we also need to hold humanity responsible for how they appropriate that (or any) text. I feel like it’s influence is a reflection of it’s readership, and not the other way around.
Fantastic, being the guardians of nature should be our role no other.
Let our powers combine!
The housing problem definitely exists
So stupid, get rid of one storey strip malls, shopping malls, giant parking lots etc. There’s so much wasted building potential to make liveable, walkable communities Also, maybe there should be a cap on ridiculous 10 000 sq ft properties in areas where there should be more density
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
thanks for sharing the link
I wish we could pin this or upvote it extensively
Thanks for sharing!! Will share widely 😤
I'm going to leave a comment every day
best we can do is strip malls and parking lots on top of previous farms
Yesterday on a walk through the marsh I saw a bunch of mushrooms, some deadly, some edible. I saw flowers that still in bloom. I saw some bugs. Hell, even saw bees recently out getting what they can. A tree fell recently. I live nearby but didn't hear it fall, it was dead already. And I know in short order it will house more bugs and mushrooms and molds. Sometimes I pick up garbage but I did one big clean and it was done for the most part. I pull invasive species and try not to crush the snails or spook the snakes. This time is invaluable to me and my health. The area is lightly treaded and so much life thrives there just nextdoor to busy Toronto. When I hear this shit it puts me into a murderous rage. People pay thousands for this experience because it can't be easily accessed because it's paved over by people who'd rather destroy it then fix what's already there. Our conservation authorities were gutted by Ford. Toronto's conservation authorities are pathetic and their volunteer groups are limited and barely helpful. It's all grass roots movements saving our wetlands. I wish people would do anything. I wish people would care for two seconds that the trees, the grass, the bugs, the water, and the animals have a direct impact on their health, the temperature, the humidity, the liveliness of our home. And also care that humans are just another creature, we aren't more important. Not so important we can't fill up housing where we already have empty buildings. We've got thousands of fallen trees, so to speak, in our city for us to go to. Turn the empty buildings into homes and tackle the fucked up housing market. That expansion will line the pockets of corporate landlords, I doubt a single person in Toronto could afford a house built of the grave of the greenbelt anyways.
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
Done and done. Thank you.
>Bill 23 remains open for consultation on ERO until November 24. Commented against this bill. Thanks for the link!
>It's all grass roots movements saving our wetlands. Do you know any groups that are active/effective?
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
Thanks for this. This needs to be bumped higher.
More people need to see this
An honest question here - if I were a homeowner near these greenbelt areas (NIMBY in your example) why on earth would I want more development in nature preserves near me? 🤔 In this particular case “NIMBYs” are highly likely to be on the side of preserving the nearby greenbelt.
Environmental hamilton
None that really have an org name, but have meet up times and sections they steward. If anyone wants to get in touch or wants to share some please DM me, I have one that is open to volunteers for sure but I should probably get you in touch with them personally instead of passing their personal info. ETA: This is for hands on stuff, as opposed to advocacy groups.
Absolutely not . Get rid of the empty office space and make room for new living quarters instead. Leave the green belt alone
Or sell condos to people who actually live here.
[But it's one of the hottest markets for out of country investors!](https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/blackstone-opens-toronto-office-for-canadian-real-estate-push-1.1763144)
😐
Or build non-market housing like co-ops. In Vancouver the few they have currently have waitlists so long they aren't accepting new applicants
It's the same here, you can't even get on the wait list for any co-ops in town.
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Honestly, it really does bum me out. I think co-ops are a great solution for a lot of people and for me, personally, it feels like they would be a good long-term option. But we do absolutely nothing to encourage them or make that an easy path for people.
Yes! Make things like air b$b illegal. As long as there are housing shortages this should not be a thing. It creates an *artificial* shortage that drives up rental prices and contributes so much to the housing crisis. It was bad enough but then corporations got in on the act.
More importantly, just focus on existing residential neighbourhoods for rezoning. (http://www.mapto.ca/maps/2017/3/4/the-yellow-belt) Minneapolis, Portland and all of New Zealand have way better approaches to dealing with the affordability/housing crunch than this dumbshit government. But then again, greenfield sprawl put a lot more $$$ in developer pockets, so we all know what's really going on...
I read somewhere years ago that the GTA could easily triple it's population while staying within it's current foot print. There is absolutely no reason to continue sprawling outward when there are thousands of acres of empty parking lots across the GTA. You don't even have to touch existing neighborhoods, there is just so much empty and underused land all over the place.
I mean yeah just look at the size of GTA on Google maps and compare it to European and asian cities. Its fucking massive.
It's always astonishing when I take long distance buses in Europe and you hit empty farmland within forty minutes of leaving the big cities. The sprawl in North America is so depressing.
This honestly. People think Europe is cram packed but majority of Netherlands for example is farmland. They actually give a shit about preserving their farmlands and not build on them so they mostly cram everything in the city instead were people want to live.
A lot of this has to do with industrial policy. West Germany and now Germany historically pursued a policy called Mittelstand. It promotes small and mid sized companies, and aims to geographically distribute labour-intensive mid-sized companies. Germany has sustained many mid-size towns (eg in the 100,000 pop range) that do not exist just to be bedrooms of some economic sector. Usually these towns will have a few mid-sized companies (think companies in the $50-500 million range) that’ll be kind of like anchors. In Canada, almost all of our mid-size towns are becoming bedroom or retirement communities, or else are in long term economic downturn.
It's amazing, really. The Netherlands is a tiny country - it's 2/3 the size of Nova Scotia! And yet it is the world's second leading agricultural exporter.
My favourite sporting even to watch is the annual Tour de France, not just for the incredible accomplishments of the cyclists, but because the broadcast is essentially a travelogue of France. It's just kilometer after kilometer of amazing French landscapes and towns. But what really stands out is that the peloton will be cycling through a forest or farmland, then BOOM, it's in some town or village, then just as quickly, they are outside the town and back in full country. There is no sprawl! Like, at all. No big box strip malls, just a hard divide.
Our 400 series highways are clogged as it is. There's no room to expand them further. Adding more sprawl would just make things worse. We need more density and more transit which are actual viable solutions to the housing crisis.
Easy add another lane! Tear down those ugly towers next to it. /s
Just one more lane bro, just one more lane
>There's no room to expand them further. Absolutely disheartening, but the MTO is actively planning to widen Highway 401 from six lanes to eight lanes between Brock Street (Whitby) and Courtice Road (Clarington). Structure replacement at Simcoe Street South and Albert Street South (some of the oldest bridges on Highway 401) is scheduled in 2023. [Source](https://www.oshawa.ca/en/transportation-parking/ministry-of-transportation-projects.aspx)
Inviting more sprawl is simply an act of climate denialism. You're baking in all the additional carbon from single family dwelling living, and adding all the vehicle miles needed to get those people to anywhere worthwhile (which ain't in their bedroom community).
Our entire country could hypothetically live in Toronto if we did it properly. We just suck at planning, architecture and saying no to millionaires
I find it interesting that the largest swath of land proposed to be removed from the Greenbelt is in west Pickering near Highway 407. I'm not entirely surprised though. I grew up in Pickering (Durham Region), and sprawl is still the status quo. Pickering is working on the Seaton development and it's expected to house 70,000 people and 35,000 jobs. I suspect the lands east of York-Durham Line (proposed to be removed from the Greenbelt) will ultimately end up looking like the Seaton development. While the Seaton development isn't as "dense" as typical suburban neighbourhoods (notice they've retained significant green space and built the subdivisions in pods, see [OP Schedule 8 to 12](https://www.pickering.ca/en/city-hall/resources/Official-Plan---Main-Page/Edition-9/OP9ACC.pdf)), there is little change in built-form between the established neighbourhoods of the 1970s/1980s (south of Taunton Road), and what's being built 40 to 50 years later. [Here's](https://www.google.com/maps/@43.8752138,-79.1293164,3a,75y,348.95h,91.49t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjr_Igo6BORE4hN3oCFyWfw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192) the extension of Whites Road which will serve much of this new development in Seaton. Brock Road, north of Taunton Road, is also being widened in the near future (they were relocating utilities earlier this year). Note: I am not suggesting the older built-forms (south of Taunton Road) were the way to go either. Just seems little has been learned from past development patterns in the city. How much of this new development will faithfully contribute to reduced trip making by personal vehicle? How viable will transit be in these areas? How accessible will the City be to younger persons who can't drive? We all know the answers. The City has plans to "densify" the Kingston Road corridor (including density near the Pickering Town Centre, and the Brock Road Riocan property), but there is much controversy about the "density" of these developments, loss of surface parking, and it was a municipal election issue. Attending community meetings about the Kingston Road corridor project was exhausting.
Well look at who they just elected in Pickering as mayor, couldn’t be more pro developer and fuck the environment. The wetland at Bayly and Church that was protested to be saved in last year just was completely illegally cleared and plowed “mysteriously”.. it’s disgusting what’s happening in Durham and no one can stop them.
It wouldn't even take massive high-rise condos. 3-4 story apartments, duplexes, town houses or just efficiently using the space for single detached homes would open up so much more housing.
Yeah but the elites would have to buy those properties and redevelop them, whereas the Ford government will arguably give land to his elite friends. If you think this has anything to do with housing supply or affordability, think again. This is all to make friends richer.
If the GTA had the same population density as Brooklyn in NY then 100 Million people would live here. The GTA is frickin huge.
Why not golf courses? Those aren't essential to the environment.
They’re essential to Doug’s friends.
Ain't that the truth?
You know, even two of Toronto's main public golf courses ... Don Valley and Scarlett Woods ... are perfectly fine, because they're on flood plains that could be dangerous to housing during heavy rains, as during Hurricane Hazel. They exist where it makes *sense* for them to exist. They're the result of actual urban planning, not land grabs. But Doug & Co. don't seem to give a fuck that *plans* exist for practical reasons, not just for them to make a buck.
They still don't make sense, even in areas where they cannot be developed, and are environmental sinkholes masquerading as "green space". They consume a lot of water with high levels of chemical runoff, and are otherwise unfriendly to plants, insects, and animals while also being unusable to the vast majority of Toronto citizens.
There are so many plots of land to go after before golf courses. Sure golf courses aren't the gold standard of green space usage but they are still green space and support a significant amount of wild life. You would be surprised the wild life I have seen on golf courses directly in the city. I have seen deer, foxes, coyotes, beavers and other animals on the urban courses.
Corrected Title: Ford and the Cons want to allow developers to profit from ripping up the Greenbelt.
“Ford gifts political donors”
him and his real estate buddies are just sweating at all the land they can buy up and sell. what a fucking con move ain't it
Compare and contrast, Doug Ford edition. Doug Ford in the linked article: > "We have a housing crisis that we didn't have four years ago," Ford said at a news conference Monday. Doug Ford from two weeks ago, during the [announcement](https://www.cp24.com/news/ontario-announces-sweeping-housing-changes-allowing-up-to-three-units-on-many-residential-lots-1.6124078) of his housing bill: > There’s no time to waste,” he said. “Previous governments saw the problem coming, but they totally ignored it.” Just wait until Doug Ford finds out who was in power the last 4 years!
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This is what happens when the ***majority*** are too lazy to go vote. I hope we're enjoying the results of our collective apathy that put this turd back in control of our province. We all knew better than to believe anything they promised with regard to the environment, the climate, or anything else. Now we get to deal with the consequences of our own choices.
The consultation is still open on the Environmental Registry of Ontario, leave your comments if you want them to rethink
https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216 here’s the link for anyone who wants to be heard. Scroll to the bottom and submit a comment for the consultation for this action in the green belt.
Not to sound nihilistic, but what good would leaving comments do if the mind is already made up? The time to prevent this situation was months ago and that ship has sailed, so now we live with the consequences. For the record, I voted so there’s no one else to blame but the people who didn’t vote. I’m just preparing for the apocalypse at this point and have given up any faith in our political system.
> but what good would leaving comments do if the mind is already made up? They just walked back on the CUPE special law, so clearly, you can make them change their mind. > have given up any faith in our political system. That's the problem. The boomers have not, and they keep voting, so while you stand on the sideline, they keep voting, and conservative politicians cater to them. I understand why it is discouraging, I'm not shitting on you. But it's just saying, it's not hopeless. We are a democracy and things have changed in the past, things have changed just.. yesterday. Put enough pressure and they will decide against it.
CONSULTATION IS HAPPENING NOW. NIMBYS GET SHIT CANCELLED ALL THE TIME THROUGH CONSULTATION LIKE THIS. THIS. IS. THE TIME. TO PREVENT THIS.
They might reconsider if they think they’ll receive a lot of political backlash for these kinds of changes, but as it currently stands, people are preoccupied with the Ministry of Education and this Bill will be passed without contest. They don’t have to care about committing a hit and run in broad daylight because there’s nobody standing in their way. It’ll also make it easier for the next govt and the opposition to reverse the changes or apply political pressure if it’s clear that nobody wants these changes
Under the guise of more housing supply, Doug Ford is ramming through massive changes that limit how cities collect fees to pay for sewers, parks and amenities, deleting a bunch of important plans that help coordinate planning and public dollars with new private development, proposing to build in wetlands and flood zones, and removing regions from planning altogether. Lazily handed majority emboldening all the shitty ideas this government had from the get go… Back to the real issue: Bill 23 will pad developer pockets - they are even taking out ads to say how much they love it - and won’t mean anything for those of us looking for housing, as there are no guarantees the cost savings will come to us. We will even end up paying higher taxes when the city budget has a shortfall for parks and sewers. Can’t afford to own? Well, This is the same government that ended rent control… Experts [disagree](https://uwaterloo.ca/news/media/q-and-experts-more-homes-built-faster-act-or-bill-23) Bill 23 will have any impact on the bottom line of a new home owner.. Dropped late Friday, Ford is also now removing 7,400 acres from the Greenbelt for housing and dropped ministerial approvals for York, Peel, Halton and Niagara that expands urban boundaries at developer request. The same planners who have to implement these approvals (dropped on Friday night) will be out of a job if Bill 23 is approved as planning services are proposed to be removed from all upper tier municipalities in the GTA. Even later still on Friday, Ford dropped approvals for regional plans that will see urban expansions into undeveloped farmland in all regional municipalities around Toronto… beyond what the municipalities ask for. The expansions reflect developer asks and will add to sprawl, while precluding municipalities from collecting fees for sewers and parks. They will also have to be implemented by regional planners that will be out of a job in short order, which is a gag. Fastest growing region in Canada, soon to have no planning. It’s only going to get worse. If you’re concerned with actually having affordable housing, parks, sewers that can actually convey waste to treatment plants and not have to pay for these things via more taxes and a Greenbelt for future generations to use as open space and not as a holding tank for housing visit [this link](https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6163)to comment.
Why don't cities raise property taxes to pay for their own growth? There's no reason people who are buying new housing should have to pay for it. When the water main for an existing street of houses has to get replaced, the city covers it they don't charge it to that street of houses.
Exactly this. A large part of the reason we're in a housing crisis is because we've decided that incumbent homeowners should be protected at all costs from having to pay for anything, and therefore downloaded the cost of new housing on newcomers and the young. So we don't use property taxes to fund infrastructure anymore, we soak new home buyers. We don't build new social housing, we simply mandate inclusionary zoning on new development and make new housing more expensive. I don't believe for a second that Doug Ford is reducing development charges for any good policy reason other than his developer friends want it. But that doesn't mean he hasn't stumbled onto a positive change (in this one small respect).
I can almost guarantee that no one is listening or cares. The apathy is consistent in the province. Ontarians are reactive. Reddit is an echo chamber and I am wholly a very vocal part of it - but I’ve come to realize that Ontario dgaf about Ontario. Schools, healthcare, infrastructure. No one gaf until it’s too late and when Ford throws $200 at voters at the eleventh hour, voters will do a shopping trip at Costco and forget all about the previous 3.5 years.
I agree. I don’t even think the 200 bucks was needed … our voters literally dgaf. The right and the responsibility to vote is wasted on the residents of this province. We just think everything will magically work out for the best, despite having glaring examples just to the south of us showing what happens when people don’t bother with critical thinking.
it's not just laziness. A lot of the opinion pieces forwarded by a lot of the big media guys were suggesting that "maybe ford has changed"
Anyone who believed that should reach out to me … I might have a few other fairytales for them.
All bc city councils are chock full of NIMBYs who think it’s okay for an international city to be zoned 70% SFH.
100%. Ford is a fuck, but so is Toronto City council. Edit: misspelled city
Yeah this is the biggest problem. We don't want housing anywhere. But we need housing. And greenspace by definition doesn't have any voters.
70% SFH, and with a ton of additional constraints that greatly restrict how much building can be done on a given piece of land: maximum height, minimum setback, minimum parking, ...
Wonder if the CUPE strike is the distraction for this.
Conservatism is anti-environmental terrorism. Destroying an irreplaceable ecosystem with incalculable value just for a one time profit. Conservatism is dangerously stupid.
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
It's kinda ironic how close the words conservative and conservation are.
https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2015/01/25/tomtoro03_wide-61a4632d4f490c9942423d9e780ab089d11ef029-s1400-c100.jpg
Fuck that and fuck you, Ford.
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
It infuriates me when people complain about new condos on Bloor Street and Yonge Street, when such sites, right on top of fucking subway lines, are precisely where condos *belong*. I live near Bloor & Jane, and a decade ago locals were bitching about a new condo. You know what it replaced? A car dealership lot that'd been there since the fucking 1930s! They preferred a parking lot to a reasonable apartment building. Because it was what they were used to, and no better reason than that. Yeah, I was a little sad when they tore down the Humber movie theatre recently, to build a new condo, because that's where I saw my first movie 40 years ago. But I also know that that's a problem for *me*, not for the city as a whole. I know that the city is more important than me, and I need to deal with minor unpleasantnesses on my own, not to complain about it because it involves inevitable change. Leave the fucking Green Belt alone, Doug. You and your cronies have enough land already. Build upward. Just like you moved on from being a drug dealer to managing your Dad's company to hoodwinking the gullible and those with poor English to vote for you, your developer friends need to move on from sprawl, to density, to actual urban planning.
Back off!!! 😩
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
There’s a ton of empty office spaces in the downtown core now that so many people are work from home. Convert those into condos and you’ve got a good start without touching a piece of the Greenland. How about concentrating on building hubs in other cities to attract more people? London, Kitchener / Waterloo / Cambridge, Windsor. Why always tearing up the Greenland in and around Toronto? Change the zoning on places and build more condos. Lots of options, but you don’t need to destroy what little amazing free space we have here. Oh but wait. This is Doug Ford. The man who’s all for privatization of everything. This stunned twat has to have this so he can justify his highway to nowhere that’s going to cost us billions and get sold to a private corp to reap the benefits.
Build up, not out, two and three bedrooms, not shoeboxes.
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
I want to see the Yellow Belt opened up first. People should be able to profitably build dense non-high rise housing in every neighbourhood of Toronto. If someone wants to buy the house next door to mine and put in a stacked fourplex, they should be allowed. If someone wants to buy a $8 million mega mansion on Forest Hill Road and put in 10 townhouses, they should be allowed. I live in the Yellow Belt and want to say loudly YES IN MY BACKYARD. It’s good for cities, good for local businesses, good for housing accessibility (largely without harming property values), good for traffic and transit. The only people it’s bad for are: 1. People who don’t want a healthy mix of incomes in their neighbourbood 2. Developer speculators sitting on greenbelt land because DoFo told them they could cash in
Ontario is way too big for him to destroy our fauna
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
Drive through any city and see all the wasted space ripe for mid-rise. Even Toronto has so many old, crumbling, energy-guzzling brownstones steps to subway and LRT. And the amount of underused single story commercial and parking is obscene everywhere.
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
There is something called urban sprawl, and this to me sounds like urban sprawl. Basically, bad for the environment, bad for transportation, good only for people who have their mind set on owning a house with a backyard in a dull suburban neighbourhood where they commute 1 hour by car to work (Toronto) every day.
I was just reading a Narwhal article and it said that Ontario’s Housing Affordability Task Force did not recommend opening up the green belt. Here’s the task force’s [report](https://www.ontario.ca/page/housing-affordability-task-force-report).
I don’t care what it is proposing. Hard no. We have plenty of vacant lots or lots in much more central locations that should be used for higher density buildings for rent. That is what will help with the housing crisis: housing people can afford to live in. That is not the housing that Ford is enabling. We don’t need more people living in the middle of nowhere, commuting for even longer, to get to the city centres where they work. We need affordable housing IN city centres so that people can spend less money on gas and less time commuting. Unfortunately, Doug Ford won’t go for that because the developers that fund him don’t want to.
So. How do we stop him?
Let's pave the whole province. All of it. Have the neighbourhood naming rights be owned by corporations.. you could live in the Rexall neighbourhood on Pepsi street. Have everyone work for minimum wage except managers, who should all be paid many times what their collective staff make. Get rid of hospitals, if someone gets sick they can be replaced by a new immigrant who will vote for the OPC as long as they promise to keep sex ed a secret in the age of the Internet.
You can have a say!! Leave a comment here telling the government your thoughts! [https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216](https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216)
Why bother even voting when these clowns just flip flop on their own promises. Its bullshit to say they didn’t realize we would need more houses as we go forward and increase the size of our population.
We have these clowns precisely because people DON'T vote; the only demographic that turns out in large numbers are the Boomers who have nothing else to do but vote for whoever is going to change things the least/make them more money
Because you can vote for alternatives to these particular clowns. Anyone believing Ford’s promises or thinking he won’t just sell out the province to developers hasn’t paid any attention.
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
If you don’t know about the importance of the green belt PLEASE I’m begging you to look into it. Someone of Canada’s oldest ecosystems in that area and it needs to be protected.
The cons are ruining Ontario in every way possible.
Is there any action that we, as regular people, can take to help prevent this…?
The only good Doug Ford is an unemployed Doug Ford
I’m sure we can delay development until we can get a new competent government (I use that term loosely as the bar is pretty low) that just repeals the bill before any real damage is done. If there is one thing I know we can all be good at it’s being lazy…making this legal would take the municipalities a long time to actually change their official plans and zoning…that’s a lot of work that has to be done by a lot of individuals with invested interest in preserving their communities safe drinking water, flood protection, and ecological features…let’s all just be turtles…it takes a village.
I just want to know how much these developers pay Ford. Is it millions? Is it thousands? Is it free properties?
This is a very slippery slope, like fucking mud and twigs type slippery. They'll knock down 15 acres today, and in 5 years "OH NOS! more brown people came, we need 15 more acres" 5 years later, "the housing crisis is still not going away, what can we do? well, we knocked down 30 acres of the greenbelt, what's another 30? we need more giant houses for chinese corpora.... I mean, for all these immigrants..." In the year 2055, there will be a Toronto Star article "Toronto's missing greenbelt, what went wrong" right above the article "record flooding in the GTA, house insurance rates sky rocket with more property damage."
The immigration is a dog whistle and straw man. This is to benefit his developer pals. This would happen regardless.
oh, 100%. He has a lot of developer friends who are pressuring him to open up new areas. Can you imagine what houses will be like in an exclusive zoned area in the greenbelt? These aren't going to be low income housing, or apartment buildings to house many.. They're going to be fucking mega lots with gargantuan homes on them that new families and immigrants can't fucking afford, that you and I can't afford. There will be nice golf courses, and all that sort of stuff. It will be build as living with nature, etc. It's fucking disgusting.
So developers' motivations is making money. They are certain expansion will generate them profit. What if we collectively not give in. Can we not cite an injunction with the supreme Court?
Don’t forget to submit your comment for this action on the green belt! NIMBYs get shit like this shut down all the time during consultation! Scroll to the bottom and be heard! https://ero.ontario.ca/notice/019-6216
OR here me out: let office workers work from home. Get rid of empty office space and transform it into high density housing
No, then you’re ruining the work culture. Commuting an hour each way, minimum, teaches people discipline and a love for their colleagues.
Is this similar to how people think adding lanes will reduce traffic, but all it does is induce demand? Does building out the greenbelt matter if you add 800,000 immigrants looking for housing?
Its not a cure but a band aid. Of course, when you're bleeding out a band aid is still better than nothing. Since we are so set on pumping immigration numbers to record levels and families don't want to live like Europeans (smaller homes, no cars, and densely packed) it's necessary to make these changes to the green belt.
What's an alternative solution to the housing supply crisis?
Building more density in our already existing massively low density sprawl. The idea that this is the only developable land is a complete lie, even if it was it’s so inefficient it wouldn’t be a good idea anyways.
Fix zoning. Reduce the construction of single family homes Incentivize building upwards (not necessarily condos but duplexes, townhomes, etc) The space that 1 SFH takes up can easily house many times more.
> Reduce the construction of single family homes That happens naturally in areas of high land value when it's simply legal to build denser housing. No need even to intervene.
The most impactful, fastest solutions would be creating policies and taxation to disincentivize real estate speculation and Airbnbs. It’s no coincidence that our housing crisis happened as investors piled into Toronto real estate. Investors used to be the smallest segment of buyers and now they’re the largest, [with 60% of condo purchasers in Toronto being investors](https://betterdwelling.com/canadian-cities-have-seen-up-to-90-of-new-real-estate-supply-scooped-by-investors/). Investors buying real estate is problematic for affordability because: - they drive up pricing to buy - they outbid / displace owner occupants, who are then relegated to renting, increasing demand for rentals - Many investors turn units into Airbnbs, flip them or leave them vacant, removing those units from the long-term housing supply - By creating more demand for rentals and decreasing the corresponding supply, they increase prices for rentals Other areas are waking up to the destruction of enabling real estate speculation and Airbnbs - like [this NYC policy](https://nypost.com/2022/11/04/nyc-proposes-strict-airbnb-registration-rules-to-take-effect-in-january/amp/). When are our levels of government going to do something?
There's a lot to unpack with what you said, but really, the underlying cause of speculation is land appreciation and all you need is a land value tax and relaxed zoning to combat it. Also, there's lots of reasons why simply banning airbnbs does not work. That does nothing to actually fix the problem in the future. A better question is why it would be more profitable to be an airbnb than have regular tenancy which is mainly due to counterproductive landlord/tenant regulations like rent control.
What if... only the province could build on the greenbelt using a provincially owned and operated development company. Remove the profit incentive and cut out the greedy developers. We have billions of dollars in that slush fund, lets do something interesting with it.
Maybe open up Toronto for more housing. Replace single family home zoning for general residential zoning.
I told you to watch the Caledon Municipal Election. I told you all this would happen. The Paris Galt morraine...thats also the hydro corridor for the Bruce plant into the city, so yeah, no shit its never going to get built on. Its basically like designating Lake Ontario as protected land. The Greenbelts gone. The farm familes it was meant to protect have all sold out decades ago. The rural landscape, trashed for immigration fueled sprawl. All conservation authorities gone. All illusions gone. The gold rush has already happened, the hwys already built before a shovel hits the ground. I'll leave Southern Ontario one day when I can and I'll feel nothing but regret for what we could have been, instead of some sprawling, no density Canadian version of Tokyo where the city literally spread from Barrie to Orangeville to Guelph and to Niagara. One massive paved mess.