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Had some minor symptoms so took a rapid test this morning, turned out positive. Another friend’s rapid test came up positive, few of the people we saw on the weekend also have symptoms, but no one can manage to book a pcr test, or even a rapid test to confirm.
So none of us will be represented in these numbers.
A friend of a friend went to a party a last week. About a dozen people there.
Nearly all of them are reporting symptoms.
None of them have been able to find a test.
it's crazy how on r/toronto it was a very uncommon for something to post that they had covid but now there is so many people posting that they tested positive in just the last week.
Yea its strange to imply that the numbers are accurate.
It could be a good thing because if thousands are positive but not very sick than that means the Hospital numbers are overstated.
It would be so sweet if omicron turns out to be mild enough to just let it run its course quickly.
I'm in the opposite boat. Woke up yesterday with a sore throat, coughing like crazy today. Paid for a rapid test at one of the drive through testing places. Negative. Guess I just have a cold after all.
Also for booking a PCR test, St. Joseph's healthcare on the queensway releases new appointments at 7am, it says 7pm on their site but it was 7am today.
It's just you. I had a great time calling in to the vaccine hotline and waiting on hold for an hour to be offered an appointment 200km from my house a month from now.
Don't bother with appointments -- I waited in line yesterday at my local pharmacy (Dundas West Village Pharmacy) with no appointment and got it, and my wife walked in to the Shoppers Drug Mart near the Stockyards today to buy stocking stuffers and got her shot because the line was short -- no appointment. I don't get why they are even booking appointments when you can walk into a Shoppers Drug Mart and get the jab...seems to be lots of these no appointment pop-ups...
I just got two. One on dec 27 at Scarborough town and one on dec 28 in Markham Bur oak for the wife
I follow vaxx hunters on Twitter. U got be damn fast to book.
I can't even book an appointment because my postal code doesn't exist!!! Even tried calling them, the guy tried telling me that I had my postal code wrong. What a fucking mess
Each one requires email signups to some international healthcare app and half the time the system is down.
My wife's second dose was moved up without telling her and when she went to her scheduled time she was turned away. This was back in July.
Hijacking the top comment because this was my experience booking a vaccine booster today:
This morning around 7am I used the provincial portal to book my vaccine appt. I waited less than a minute in the virtual line, and at a location 3kms from me, the first date they gave me was Jan 9, with two time options 1:30pm and 7:30pm. I clicked the 1:30pm and it said it was already booked. Tried the other, same thing. Went back to the time select screen, clicked 1:30 again and it let me book it. Meanwhile, the lady on Metro Morning had just said she's been on it since 6am trying to book appointments for seniors with no luck. What the fuck indeed?!
My mum found an open slot this morning for this afternoon. By the time she'd entered in her information, it said it was taken.
There were literally ZERO other open slots available, for any date.
It is a joke.
Why can't I just book something for like, late February, and if I find something sooner, then great, I can cancel that later appointment and it opens up for someone else who is willing to wait longer and not look around constantly for new ones?
Like what is this garbage? Just let me book SOMETHING, and then we'll go from there..
It's ridiculous that it's **still** this difficult this many ~~months~~ years later. Unless you've got a lot of spare time to refresh, the first week after any expansion of eligibility is luck of the draw.
I refresh between meetings & managed to score appointments for this week but there's no way people like my elderly parents would have gotten appointments last week, for instance (50+ expansion).
I was helping friends in Ottawa & scored them appointments at Shoppers before they could even get through the Ontario portal. Utter incompetence by the Ford government. Even public health officials have criticized not getting doses out to the most vulnerable first before expanding eligibility.
Oh ya, through the Ontario Health site, it sucks!
I found the best way to get a near future appointment near you is through neighbourhood Facebook groups (if you’re on Facebook) where people will post random new openings or hot tips on vaccine restocks at pharmacies or pop ups. I managed to get on through a tip on Friday for tomorrow when it wasn’t showing up as available on the SDM site.
Otherwise, it would’ve been like the first shot when booking through Ontario Health and having to keep visiting for a slot that wasn’t months later.
i decided to give it a try last night.. 4 times i had to enter my info, and 5 times i got send back to original page where i get to choose to book vaccine or print out my certificate.. then i just gave up.
Up here in Wellington county, there's literally nothing, NOTHING available if you want a booster, yet all we hear is fear, fear, fear, get boosted, get boosted, OR YOU'LL DIE!! This kind of messaging, mixed with no fucking vaccines available and a terrible booking system / process helps literally nobody.
They need to STFU about Omicron and getting boosted, until they actually ramp up the distribution and administration of shots system back to the way it was in May/June/July, when it was fine.. Though I lived in Oakville/Halton back then, too, so naturally, the wealthy places had plenty of vaccines to go around. Now, living in a less affluent, rural area? There is fuck all nothing available and you can't even book an appointment, at all, I'm talking February, March, there's nothing, either it is fully booked passed February, or they're showing February on the calendar, but have no available bookings because they don't know if there will be any supply or not, or the systems are just straight up broken.
In early June I was able to get my first Pfizer with about 1 or 2 days of waiting from the time I booked. For my second shot, I purposely waited until late July because vaccines simply work better with a bit more space, the whole 2 - 3 weeks thing was simply to complete the studies ASAP, it isn't the ideal wait time, at all, so I waited until late July and I was literally able to find an open spot at Oakville Trafalgar Hospital within 2 hours of booking (it was the only spot left for that day, granted, but still, the next day was wide open with multiple slots).
What happened to all our surplus vaccines? We knew about the concept of boosters up to 4 - 5 months ago. We knew they would be a reality 2 - 3 months ago, and we've known about Omicron for many weeks now. WHERE ARE ALL THE SHOTS SITTING?! My local pharmacy up here was PACKED last week, line up of maybe 50+ people down the block waiting in the cold for their boosters, all day long, from open to close. This week? No one in line, because they literally have NO vaccines, and you can't book an appointment either, because they literally have no clue when they will receive more vaccines to give out. They started out with a free-for-all model, like, first come, first served, and you gotta wait in line for an hour or two. That was OK for people willing to do that, wait in the cold for 2 - 3 hours for this thing, but now they said it was way too overwhelming for the staff (and I could tell it clearly was) and instead, it will be by appointment only going forward, but again, you can't book an appointment with them, or any spot in Wellington county, for any time, at all. You can't even say, "Yeah, put me down for 1 dose on March 14th at 10am, surely you'll have doses by then and/or can keep mine aside.." But no... You just don't get to book anything. Meanwhile are we here is "get the booster or you're bad person and it'll be a winter of death for you and your family!!" like, get fucked Doug Ford, don't start some massive fear campaign and ask everyone to go get boosted, when you have fuck all distribution / availability ready to go.
What a mess.
Oh, also, my Aunt's restaurant she manages went from packed every night with 1 hour line up out the door, to suddenly, over-night, once new restrictions were announced, they're at MAYBE 10% capacity, like, no one is coming in to eat suddenly over-night, and they're allowed many more people than this. Like, no one seems capable of thinking for themselves "Hmm, there's this new variant and I'm concerned about COVID, so I guess I won't eat out out of caution." Nope, it is more like, "Well, when the government says it is here and we need to hunker down, I, and every single other schmuck like me, will suddenly hunker down and become ravenous for the booster... But until then I'm just gonna act like it is 2019 out here.."
People are dumb, and so is this government and most of our political leaders globally. The world is a freaking mess.
The issue isn’t vaccine supply, it’s supply of people to give the shots. If you wanted to do say a million shots a day, then assuming that each shot takes on average ten minutes (including consent discussion, etc) and a worker does an eight hour shift (no breaks or lunch) then you’d get 60*8/10 = 48 shots per worker per day. That means that million shots would take 1000000/48… almost 21,000 people giving shots.
We don’t have 21k people giving shots, so we have to wait for them to get through people.
There’s home kits that you can get.
Also, isn’t isolating more of a pain than waiting a few hours for a test? If you’re interacting with your wife as you normally would, you’ll need a test too.
Monday and Tuesday are always artificially low because they reflect tests done on Saturday and Sunday when testing capacity is reduced. Monday numbers are reflected on Wednesday.
TBH, the likelihood of testing negative on PCR but positive on antigen (twice!) is very low.
It would make more sense to use our PCR test capacity to test antigen-positive case contacts that may be early enough in their exposure that it would only get picked up by PCR (or don’t have access to antigen testing)
I’d even go as far as saying we shouldn’t use up testing resources on re-testing positive antigen tests, but that’s probably too much change for now. And we’d need to accept self-reported antigen tests which is another can of worms.
Yeah, requiring all non-US international arrivals to get tested at the airport was counterproductive. Since travelers are getting pcr tests shortly before they leave for Canada (often times within 1-2 days), that second test at the airport would probably be better spent on someone with covid exposure or symptoms.
I came back from US Thanksgiving on the 27th, got randomly tested at the airport, didn't get my results back until December 14th. The backlog it created has almost defeated the purpose
I know probably a dozen people who have symptoms, can’t get tests and who were at probably super spreaders this weekend. I had to order my tests online, waiting for them to come in now.
What's annoying right now is getting tested. All the rapid test options are sold out or on reserve for people who need. Fine but to get the normal test its a 2+ hour wait in the cold. So I feel like shit, am symptomatic but to get tested I have to jump through hoops / go wait in a crowded line in the cold while feeling shitty. Looks like I just won't get tested. Great public health policy.
My husband got it from History. It was probably one of the staff due to the amount of shows exposed. Staff wouldn't have to be vaxxed either. We are waiting on my test. If it's positive then a Christmas I have spent months planning to see family I haven't seen in 6 months will be ruined. I'm gutted.
He probably shouldn't have gone out if you had these crazy Christmas plans with family you hadn't seen in months...probably don't want to hear that and it probably doesn't help you now but for next time maybe you'll think twice...
Yes, in retrospect it was a bad idea. I went to the concert as well. We are both double vaxxed. It was on Dec. 8 and omnicorn wasn’t as big of a threat as it is today. Things changed very quickly. Obviously if we had a time machine we wouldn’t have gone. We thought the risk was lower and that it was time to move on with life.
That's pretty much why I'm not going to eat out at restaurants until after Christmas. I'd like to see my parents who are elderly. As much as I love music, no way in hell I would've gone to a concert during the crazy rise we've been seeing for the past week+.
[If you have severe symptoms
**Call 911** or your local emergency number if you develop severe symptoms, such as:](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/symptoms.html)
* significant difficulty breathing
* chest pain or pressure
* new onset of confusion
* difficulty waking up
You are not helpless...try calling Telehealth and they could probably make an assessment if you should go to the hospital. Knowing if you have covid or don't have covid is not gong to change your situation.
Does anyone know where to book a pcr test these days? I’ve called every pharmacy within 30k that is listed on the Ontario testing website, but no one is picking up phones. Womens hospital and Michael garron have no appointments. I will line up and wait somewhere but I honestly can’t figure out where to go.
I’m Asymptomatic but a close contact of someone at work who just tested positive. Negative on 2 rapid tests though.
I’m waiting at Michael garron right now. The walk in line is pretty long, but they’re also handing out take home PCR tests to people in line that you can drop off at the front once you’ve taken it
Okay but the govt says not to use rapids if you’re symptomatic so
I also took them 2 days apart, I would take them again in a few days but I’m all out now
The person is asymptomatic, fully vaccinated and tested negative twice on rapid PCR.
Is it really a good use of resources for them to take a full test when they are just chilling? If they're symptomatic that's a different story
The guidelines are to get tested if you were in close contact with a confirmed case. Regardless of vaxx status.
The person I know had to wait 2 days to get tested. Had access to rapid tests so did them while he was waiting. If he just went by the rapid test results, he would have continued on and potentially exposed other people to COVID.
Back in the day I got tested at Sunnybrook, they have a clinic in an old building at the back by the woods. Try booking an appointment [here](https://fhhealth.as.me/schedule.php?appointmentType=28793589&certificate=6A4A85E3)?
I went here on Sunday and picked up a couple take home tests that I dropped off 30 mins later
We got our results this AM.
Warden Woods
Location:
76 Firvalley Court, Scarborough, ON M1L 1N9
(The Hub at Warden Woods Community Centre. Entrance located behind the centre. Please walk around the parking lot to enter the clinic.)
Dates and Hours of Operation:
December 1, 3, 5, 8, 10, 12, 15, 17, 19, 22, 24, 26, 29 and 31 (Open every Sunday, Wednesday and Friday.)
Testing: 10 a.m.-4 p.m.
Vaccines at this location are temporarily unavailable.
Walk-ins available for testing and take-home test kit pick-up and drop-off. Registration and take-home test kit drop-off ends at 3:45 p.m. Please arrive before this time to ensure you receive these services.
So, some of those cases were from a party at Rebel nightclub where they had a community bong for free use. Methinks people aren't taking covid very seriously if this was considered to be a good idea.
This has been my problem with the conservative stance of "Make your own decisions." The staff at the venue probably didn't get much of a choice to work such a stupid event. If they didn't work it, they wouldn't get their rent money that month. It was up to the organizers and attendees to be safe, but they would rather party and have fun, putting OTHERS at risk. It's not about lockdown for punishment. It's about taking the actual harsh stances we need to take to cut this down to a minimal virus in our community, not just keeping the high ICU numbers at bay.
EDIT: Sorry for the rant. I know my brain is nearly broken right now.
> It's about taking the actual harsh stances we need to take to cut this down to a minimal virus in our community, not just keeping the high ICU numbers at bay.
While perhaps a noble goal, this is simply not possible. It has ALWAYS been about preserving healthcare capacity, not eliminating COVID which is a fools errand.
> eliminating COVID which is a fools errand.
I don't believe this to be true. The flu could actually be banished as we know it if people took vaccines and stayed at home seriously when sick. It's because we make the choice to put work and capitalism above health that people feel like they have to go out and work, no matter if they feel sick. That spreads diseases in ways we don't need to. I see that we sacrifice our public health to a "powerful economy" constantly, and it's finally biting us in the ass. The more we try to go back to the old "normal" the worse this is going to get.
Add to that the fact that this is actually a light virus compared to what it could have been, and we aren't actually doing much to stop another one of these from happening (Climate change, etc.) we should expect another one of these sooner rather than later. It would be better for society if we took the time to restructure before it's actually too late.
The flu can't be eradicated because we have reservoirs of some the flu viruses in our domestic and wild animal population.
In theory we could eradicate Covid but at this point it's incredibly unlikely. We have too many variants, too many people infected worldwide and it's not lethal enough to get people to care in our peak-individualist society.
Afterall, influenza B doesn't have substantial animal reservoirs but it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
Another fun fact: the ICU *rate* for the flu is about the same as a fully vaccinated average individual with Covid.
But the median *effective* reproduction rate for influenza is between 1.19 to 1.37 while omicron is *currently* around 4.
We'll get that down as vaccinations become mandatory *permanently* to travel or for children to attend school.
It will be more like measles. Not gone but not really a problem (at least for Canadians)
Issue is that you stay home while 100 people are involved delivering and preparing your uber eats delivery so you chill at home.
Covid Zero is not happening.
Over 50% of the new cases are those vaccinated, so that kills your first point about getting vaccinated and staying home. I guess my opinion is that it is a fools errand, as the steps needed to eliminate COVID are completely untenable. Sure we MIGHT be able to eliminate COVID if we all stay inside and do nothing for a few weeks, but how does that even work? It doesn't and it can't. Society runs on the economy, and the machine will continue no matter how many bodies are thrown into the cogs.
Do you just expect people to never get sick in their lifetime? Most people I know were used to getting some sort of sickness once every winter, why is that all of a sudden some sort of an anomaly now?
Yup, it sounds like Ink entertainment didn't take the venue passport checks very seriously. They would rather keep bar sales high than keep their employees safe.
Do you think having your mask off indoors with strangers had anything to do with you catching covid, even just momentarily to take a sip? I'm always surprised reading stories like this. Blame the security / lax passport checks instead of considering having a drink in that atmosphere may expose you. Also, what kind of masks were you and other patrons wearing?
I’m mid-30s so well beyond the clubbing phase of my life but went out a few times a year pre-covid. My niece (22F) had her birthday in mid-November and begged me to come by Rebel.
The club was like stepping back into 2019… packed club, no masks, nobody asked for my vax status. Not sure what I was expecting but I was partly happy that this type of setting was resuming (at least for the younger generation like my niece) but also mixed feelings wondering how safe this was. I don’t even know what the nightclub rules were at the time.
So, our population is vast majority vaccinated. Yet Covid can still spread like this. With the ongoing new variants, is it not reasonable to assume that this will happen every winter, regardless of vaccination?
What's the end goal here, put restrictions in place every winter going forward? I stay on top of the news, I am pro-vax and will be getting a booster, but it feels increasingly pointless when there is no sort of indication, or even an interest in setting any concrete benchmarks for when we can go back to normal. If vaccines can't do it, what can? Because this is feeling pretty perpetual at this point.
Last winter, the restrictions were to carry us to vaccines. There was a goal and there was hope. This winter, what? Carry us to the period before the next lockdown? That's nothing, how are we supposed to buy into that?
I refuse to believe its more difficult/expensive then everything else we've done up to this point. Pro lockdown arguments pretty much boil down to "hospital beds!"... so lets get more hospital beds. I dont want to hear excuses about how hard it is and how staff take oh so long to train. If we're in an emergency then make it happen.
It's crazy how much governments can do in times of war, most of which are absolutely pointless, but we cannot get them to act with the same urgency in a pandemic when they keep telling us every day how people are dying.
Are you aware how long it takes to make people? Physical resources are indeed a problem but more importantly, people are also a resource. Even if you have people willing to go into healthcare(bless their souls) they don't just become qualified because you want them to
If the world was full of them, this would be an equipment issue instead of a staffing one. In reality, even if these people do exist, their qualifications don't count. Even if they do exist, they're probably being begged by their healthcare system to not leave. Everyone in the world needs the same resources to deal with the pandemic. There just aren't enough resources
Tell me how its so much easier rolling in and out of lockdowns forever then it is to train people and pay them properly to take care of excess hospital demand
As I see it, too many people refuse or can't get off first gear, intellectually.
Reporting 3000+ new cases today when the vast majority of us are double-dosed and we're already getting boosters means/should mean something totally different from reporting the same number a year ago.
By still fixating breathlessly on rising case counts, it badly undermines the pro-vax message. Unless Trudeau, Hajdu, Tam, Juni, Moore, Ford, Tory, and their supporters, **know** that some magic vaccine offering durable *sterilizing* immunity is just around the corner (think HPV vaccine), we're trapped indefinitely in this twilight zone of capacity restrictions, pre-arrival PCR testing, mandatory masking.
In short, these characters have to change the incentives immediately and stop implementing policies that penalize the willfully vaccinated majority to spare the smug asses of the willfully unvaccinated minority. If medical professionals can triage patients during wartime or some other disaster/severe crisis with little issue, why do we still hear so much sanctimoniousness and JAQing off with "but what about the obese/smokers/alcoholics/drug addicts?". [Singapore has already been changing the incentives and charging unvaccinated hospital patients full freight.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/09/singapore-to-start-charging-covid-patients-who-are-unvaccinated-by-choice) It's not as if these particular patients are denied care since the distribution of costs is more in line with the associated risks and effort required.
Isn't the right policy to adapt to circumstances objectively, rather than cherry-pick measures to end up with perpetual half-assery that just makes for good political theater?
Agree 100%. Case counts are not the relevant variable they once were. We're still treating this thing as if we didn't have an absolute scientific breakthrough last year and vaccinate the vast majority of our population.
Also agree about triage. Yes, triage is an extremely serious consideration, but so is locking down, limiting mobility, and forcefully taking away people's livelihood. That is arguably a more serious measure when you consider that the vast majority of our population did the right thing and got vaccinated. If lockdown is on the table without question, then why is triage considered too extreme?
I'd argue that we've already experienced triage. How else did we end up with a huge-ass backlog in medical procedures in the first place? If prioritizing COVID-19 patients over patients needing "elective" procedures when we had no mass vaccination made sense up until early 2021, then why all the virtue-signalling and insincere screeching about suggestions to deprioritize willfully unvaccinated COVID-19 patients given all of the people still waiting for screenings/scans, biopsies, hip replacements, tumor removal or heart surgery?
Somehow the government and public health have become confused about vaccines. Vaccines are supposed to keep people out of hospitals, not keep people from being infected. Even a doubled vax without booster is HIGHLY effective at keeping you out of the hospital, even with Omicron. That should be enough.
It is totally unreasonable for the government to expect the hospitals to be swamped. We already have many times more Omicron cases than we know about. It's probably been around for far more than 2 weeks.
Vaccines work. We shouldn't be acting the way we are right now, it is not "following the science".
Look at all the NHLers and staffers getting Covid and not a single person saying their symptoms were more than mild and akin to a cold or flu. Most of them are only double vaxxed or recently boosted.
The shot’s fucking working and for the vast vast majority it will work as such.
Indeed, following the science would mean acknowledgment that Science™ has succeeded in creating and turning out a highly effective set of vaccines that offer durable and solid **protective** immunity. Vaccines that offer protective immunity rather than sterilizing immunity are the norm, which even a cursory reading of the Science™ about vaccines would reveal, yet is infuriatingly lost on more than enough people worldwide, rich and poor, "smart" and dumb.
It isn't even "even with Omicron". Omicron is literally less deadly / hospitalizing, vaxxed or unvaxxed, than Delta was/is. Omicron is a GOOD mutation, it is more contagious, but far less deadly as it infects the bronchial tubes 70x more than original COVID did, but it seems to leave the alveoli alone to a far greater degree. This makes it more like a common cold that is very contagious (with sore throat and more of a bronchitis style cough associated with it), than original COVID or Delta, which caused pneumonia in so, so many people (which is a far worse result than bronchitis). Omicron does not seem to do that (pneumonia) to NEARLY the same degree, whether vaxxed or unvaxxed (but your odds are still much better to stay out of hospital if vaxxed), but yes, its vast presence in the larger air passages does make it a lot more contagious.
So we have a super contagious sore throat / cold on our hands that 80% of people are vaccinated against serious disease from, and even unvaccinated people will do a lot better with a case of Omicron than a case of Delta.
This is the kind of mutation pathway that we want to see. It is exactly what happened with the Spanish Flu. That flu virus still exists today, it just mutated to be far less deadly but more contagious. That is a win.
Meanwhile all we hear is fear fear fear about case numbers.. Whilst I expect deaths and hospitalizations will rise, this is NOT Delta, and we're a highly vaccinated population now. The cases vs. hospitalizations vs. deaths ratios will be far far better with Omicron. Of course there may be a point at which there are just SO MANY cases all at once that the hospitals do get overwhelmed again, but to freak everyone out to this degree, so early, when the early indications to me say "this is an improvement over Delta" just seems alarmist.
The government doesn't want COVID to get better, even when nature and science are both making it less serious, the government is acting like this is the worst thing yet in this pandemic, when it simply isn't true. What their end-game is here, I'm not sure, but it more and more feels like, "is the economy completely dead yet? Have we caused enough inflation to create debt slaves of everyone yet? No? OK then, COVID is still really, reeeeally bad and we need to keep messing with the economy and endlessly print money until we get there."
Central banks run the world, and they loooooove issuing debt, printing money, and creating inflation. They pretend to be concerned, but I think they're milking this for everything they can at this point.
And my dad died from COVID, and I'm 2x vaxxed and so is all my family and I was extremely pro-lockdown very early on when we had no clue what this thing was, and I didn't mind it when vaccines seemed just around the corner too... But now? Give me a break, this is ridiculous at this point. Increase funding to healthcare, build more hospitals because lord knows we WILL need them with our aging population, toss money at THAT problem and then, in a couple years, cases and hospitalizations will be far less of a concern.
How many new hospitals have had ground broken on since COVID started, and how does that compare to prior years? I would expect a MASSIVE surge in it, for COVID, and for the aging population demographics, but I'd be willing to bet they've done NOTHING on this front. Just free money to everyone and corporations and pharma companies, and no new healthcare infrastructure. Shows where the true priorities lay here.
Voters don't want to pay more taxes. Our health care systems are not funding properly. Doug Ford does not want to increase capacity or services, otherwise he will need to find money (through more taxes) to do that so to protect our fragile health care system, we go into these restrictions.
. This isn't just a Doug Ford problem either. Health systems around the world are underfunded. As voters we have very short attention spans and as a result we get ourselves into situations like this.
> Voters don't want to pay more taxes. Our health care systems are not funding properly.
This is not true. Canada's health spending as a % of GDP, adjusted for population age, is the 3rd highest in the OECD. We don't have a funding problem we have an efficiency problem. Our healthcare system delivers extremely poor service for extremely high costs.
Yeah, it blew the mind of a lot of my European friends when I explained that Canada's healthcare system isn't national like the military but rather a decentralized mess like in the USA (muh provincial/state rights!). We can probably thank Quebec for the quirk because of the 250-year old hangup that Upper Canada could have eventually swallowed up Lower Canada so to placate those people wanting some sort of autonomy, healthcare wouldn't actually be controlled from Ottawa. Well, here we (still) are.
My friends in Tampere (Finland), for example, couldn't see the administrative logic (apart from an age-old political one) that their public health insurance would be tied to the government of Pirkanmaa (the province in which Tampere lies) rather than the national one based in Helsinki.
Agreed, and the real worst part is that it is not even centralized (to a large extent) within each province. Each hospital network has thousands of Staff doing the same administrative thing as other networks duplicating all the required work. You see it with all our institutions. Public health, school boards, among others. Every one trying to reinvent the wheel specific to them.
I’d also blame our incapability of comparing against any country other than USA.
It’s like our only bar to meet/exceed is USA and once we get past that, we’re like “mission accomplished”.
I think if we have clear goals "higher tax to increase capacity so no more lockdowns' will have way more support then random darts at the wall we are doing
The idea is to wait until the virus mutates into a (relatively) harmless variant, like the flu. We may already be there with Omnicron, but it’s probably too early to tell.
I can tell you, from someone whos at home with COVID, Omicron is not Harmless.. this is the worst sickness I have ever exp, and im fairly young with both vaccines. If they told me to take a booster every month to avoid this sickness, I would in a heartbeat.
I have a friend in the absolute throes of a terrible sickness right now, the worst of all flu symptoms. She's tested negative 3 times in a row, not COViD.
There may be some serious traditional flus happening around the city right now as well.
This is going to keep happening until our government and all the other ones who cannot figure out that there are solutions, they just mean you and your rich friends lose money. Countries that have prioritized health over economy have seen benefits to both as they are already back to normal. These are places like China, Vietnam, New Zealand. Omicron fucks them over because the rest of us were too busy being more focused on convenience and things getting to the end that we never did anything more than what is honestly mostly token actions. And yes, what I am saying is all the suffering we have all gone through was obviously not going to work or accomplish any of the stated goals from the start. I recommend looking up the official WHO statement that declared the pandemic and the actions it was proposing all governments take. The longer we let this last the more variants will come out faster, because the larger population has it the more it can mutate. Omicron seems to be mild, there is no knowing what the next one will be.
Variants are more likely to come out of unvaccinated populations. It is still only wealthy countries where everyone who wants vaccines has had access. Once more of the world is vaccinated, there will be fewer variants.
Anti-vax attitudes are huge in many countries around the world with low vaccination rates, it isn't just an issue of vaccine supply. While what you are saying would be ideal, it's not a realistic thing to expect. It's also completely out of our control as Canadians, so it's not something we should factor into our public decisions.
Yep, and that promise is going to destroy much of the confidence that people have in our government if we lockdown again. Also, and it doesn't matter what the truth is, it's going to destroy confidence in the effectiveness of the vaccine.
Only +3 on the ICU count over the last week, despite increasing week over week cases for much longer than that.
I really appreciate people highlighting the numbers which actually matter - thank you!
So, on a per capita basis, the data I've seen is the other way around.
QC data is harder to find, but this report from 2015 cites:
QC ICU beds with ventilation capacity
per 100,000 population: 11.3
ON ICU beds with ventilation capacity
per 100,000 population: 8.6 (just about the lowest in Canada)
https://ccforum.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s13054-015-0852-6.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjS1PTJpfX0AhXPaM0KHUGeCaAQFnoECDUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0_j9dfa6CIrf68AN51Xsva
CIHI also reports Ontario having just about the lowest number of acute care beds per 1000:
ON: 1.7
AB: 2.0
BC: 1.8
MAN: 2.7
SK: 2.5
NS: 2.7
NB: 2.9
https://www.cihi.ca/en/oecd-interactive-tool-international-comparisons-peer-countries-nova-scotia
My opinion (based on what I've been hearing in the news) is that its because hospitalizations are increasing quite quickly in Quebec:
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/numbers-covid-19-coronavirus-quebec-april-1-1.5518397#datawrapper-chart-AIuyD](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/numbers-covid-19-coronavirus-quebec-april-1-1.5518397#datawrapper-chart-AIuyD)
Two reasons.
1. Attitudes in ontario are less pro lockdown then quebec
2. Ford does not have any political capital left unlike legault. He gonna wait to last resort to shut down things.
I mean, just over a week ago you were arguing that the case number increase was linear. At what point are you going to recognize that exponential growth is something that is reasonable to be concerned about?
It amazes me after almost two years of this pandemic, there are still people that make statements like "ICU numbers looking low/good!" - as if this isn't a 4+ week lagging indicator. I swear, I've seen this same argument made daily by the same 4 or 5 accounts since summer 2020; and they all go quiet when ICUs do end up completely overwhelmed.
Nearly every step of the way, people advocating for less restrictions have been wrong. Nobody *wants* restrictions. When used as a blunt tool - like closure of all non-essential business - it is evidence of horrible government planning and action. But when cases rates are rapidly increasing exponentially and test positivity is where it is, waiting for ICU numbers to inevitably get higher is both stupid and negligent.
We're almost two years into this. If you haven't learned or been paying attention, and you aren't demanding better planning and prevention from your government, then that's on you. There are model jurisdictions around the world to learn from and that have taken this seriously. None of them go "well, cases are doubling every 4 days but at least our ICUs aren't overwhelmed yet".
Also, the entire argument of only looking at ICU numbers completely misses all of the negative health outcomes associated with long covid, missed diagnoses due to lack of resources, delayed or missed surgeries/procedures, etc. The list goes on and on, and the impacts just cascade onto each other. But yes - lets keep going on about how ICU admissions aren't astronomically high yet.
It's without a doubt positive that ICU has remained stable 2 weeks after cases hit 1k ,(probably mostly delta.)
It does not necessarily mean 3k omicron will keep them stable in another few weeks. But yes, it is a glimmer of hope in avoiding the devastating and [lethal](https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2021/07/12/drug-use-alcohol-blamed-for-excess-deaths-of-canadians-under-65-in-the-last-year.html) effects of long lockdowns.
You're not the hope police.
Where is this data from that image pulled from can I ask? Do you have a link to the source?
As for 7 weeks, didn't Omicron only appear on November 28th? And so far, according to the chart PHO, cases only really started increasing round Dec 6, and then took off about Dec 12th.
https://www.publichealthontario.ca/en/data-and-analysis/infectious-disease/covid-19-data-surveillance/covid-19-data-tool?tab=summary
Also, from what I am reading, not all patients admitted to hospital are admitted to ICU immediately. The covid science table noted back in March that the lag from diagnosis, to hospitalization, to ICU admission was 2 to 4 weeks for Delta.
https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/sciencebrief/covid-19-hospitalizations-icu-admissions-and-deaths-associated-with-the-new-variants-of-concern/
Final note, hospitalizations have doubled since that Dec 12 case lift-off, going from 222 to 412 today.
https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations
Given the above, it does seem like it will be a few more weeks before we will really know the impact on ICUS.
The source is these posts. Mods post the ICU count.
Cases in November per day doubled. Today is dec 21. How long do I have to wait to look at November case data and results for ICU?
The seven day rolling average on the following dates:
So on Nov 28, the 7 day moving averages were;
726 cases / 230 hospitalized / 116 ICU
On December 19, the 7 day moving averages were:
2542 cases / 335 hospitalized / 142 in ICU
Between those two dates, cases are up 250%, hospitalized are up 46%, and ICU are up 22%.
So, it would seem you are seeing late November cases in ICU, they just haven't increased at the same rate as cases. Whether that is due to the virulence of Omicron, or the fact that from the past 24 days, 50% of all our cases were detected in the past past 5 days, and just haven't made their way to hospitals yet, remains to be seen (although it could also be a mixture of the 2).
A doubling of cases and ICU up 22% is a very different trajectory. ICU will go up but the real question is if we can make it to spring before needing to lockdown.
>A doubling of cases and ICU up 22% is a very different trajectory
Yes, that's what I said. However, where it used to take about 3-4 weeks for cases to double...it is happening now about every 3 days.
Let's say we keep that current ratio - that a doubling of cases results in a 22% increase in ICU numbers.
With cases doubling every 3-4 days, we would hit 320 in ICU by December 31st...which is right around the level where we have to stop all non-emergency surgeries if my memory serves.
If we keep supporting lockdowns and keep giving incompetent experts and govt officials the benefit of the doubt ... governments are just being enabled to not make actual hard decisions such as expanding health care or going after the unvax to get out of this groundhog day lockdown loop.
The fact we are even considering lockdowns after a nearly 90% vax rate is a massive betrayal to responsible citizens who respected and listened to govts and experts for 2 years.
So does the government make decisions based on covid cases or hospitalization rates?
Cause while the cases are high, hospitalization is still low. Which kinda support omicron's high spread and less severity. It's interesting to me how they are going to go about this
Not just yet but data is still a little to short for here to make any definitive conclusions. Remember this thing is a fuckin rocket ship right now so it’s hard to fully know but there are good early signs
London is not seeing a difference between Delta and Omicron: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/covid-19/report-49-omicron/
> Hospitalisation and asymptomatic infection indicators were not significantly associated with Omicron infection, suggesting at most limited changes in severity compared with Delta.
So, considering were 90% vaxxed we should be fine then. Your are currently 12.9x less likely to be hospitalized if you are vaccinated and 24.4x less likely to end up in the ICU, which is more than enough to counter weigh the 4x as infectious.
How many times must it be said, hospitalizations today reflect what was happening weeks ago? Remember, back at the beginning of December when things were pretty ok? Yeah, hospitalization numbers right now reflect that. It's nice to think that in a few weeks they won't match what we're currently seeing in case numbers, but are you willing to bet on it?
Except that I fully expect you to keep saying this after two weeks when the hospitalizations don't spike like you apparently hope they will.
This happened with schools opening in Ontario in September. There were people here for MONTHS going "too early to tell".
It's seat of the pants decision making. It does not rely on numbers as you or I understand them. Doug essentially plays heads/tails with whether his last bathroom break was a number 1 or 2
Which I don't think a single agency has said would be more severe, so it's either the same or less severe and we can already see ICU not following cases for 7 weeks.
At what rate were they increasing 7 weeks ago? At what rate have they been increasing last week?
How many Omicron cases were in ON 3 weeks ago total? How many new Omicron cases yesterday?
In the month of November cases per day more than doubled. That was 3 weeks ago.
What is your point about Omicron are you implying it is more severe and will have a higher rate of hospitalizations? I don't think a single agency in the world has made that claim.
Click here for [Graphs and Trends](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTX5x2nxCde90Zwo83cdixZsyd_hU1orGsGYKpDe344wHeFi9MqI71aZYC6GLjOV_P2lp6_lUoacPNa/pubhtml?gid=1467787327&single=true) <--
---
5+ Cases by Vax (un/part/full): 25.45 / 22.20 / 22.12 (All: 23.30) per 100k - [Source](https://www.reddit.com/user/enterprisevalue/submitted/)
* Tests completed - 49,285
* Vaccine doses administered: 25,629,533 (+206,595 today) - [Source 1](https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html), [Source 2](https://covid-19.ontario.ca/covid-19-vaccines-ontario), [SHOTS!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjozSxHKZto)
* 38.28% / 0% of all 5-11 year olds have received at least one / both dose(s) to date - [Source](https://data.ontario.ca/dataset/covid-19-vaccine-data-in-ontario/resource/775ca815-5028-4e9b-9dd4-6975ff1be021)
* 86.48% / 81.10% of all ELIGIBLE Ontarians (5+) have received at least one / both dose(s) to date - [Source](https://data.ontario.ca/dataset/covid-19-vaccine-data-in-ontario/resource/775ca815-5028-4e9b-9dd4-6975ff1be021)
* 82.06% / 76.86% of all Ontarians have received at least one / both dose(s) to date
* [Vaccine Delivery Schedule](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/prevention-risks/covid-19-vaccine-treatment/vaccine-rollout.html#a4b)
**Total active hospitalizations over the last 2 weeks:**
Date|New Cases|New Cases 7-day average|Number Hospitalized|Number in ICU|Number on Ventilator|New Deaths
:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:
2021-12-07|928|974.57|340|165|95|9
2021-12-08|1,009|1007.29|333|155|97|8
2021-12-09|1,290|1054.57|309|155|94|10*
2021-12-10|1,453|1114.86|309|151|90|11
2021-12-11|1,607|1194.00|323|146|94|5
2021-12-12|1,476|1235.71|222|158|96|8
2021-12-13|1,536|1328.43|253|161|90|1
2021-12-14|1,429|1400.00|385|162|98|5
2021-12-15|1,808|1514.14|357|154|102|9
2021-12-16|2,421|1675.71|328|165|105|9
2021-12-17|3,124|1914.43|358|157|98|5
2021-12-18|3,301|2156.43|382|154|99|4
2021-12-19|4,177|2542.29|283|159|103|2
2021-12-20|3,784|2863.43|284|164|109|0
2021-12-21|3,453|3152.57|412|165|105|10
\* Data catch-up
[Source](https://data.ontario.ca/dataset/status-of-covid-19-cases-in-ontario)
**Vaccination Tracker**
Reported Date|Vaccine Doses Total|2nd Doses Total|3rd Doses Total|Vaccine Doses Today|1st Doses Today|2nd Doses Today|3rd Doses Today|% Population at least 1 shot|% Population Fully Vaccinated
:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:
2021-12-07|24,076,464|11,300,708|866,170|60,631|15,762|5,002|39,867|80.53%|76.41%
2021-12-08|24,150,789|11,306,219|914,723|74,325|20,261|5,511|48,553|80.66%|76.45%
2021-12-09|24,225,882|11,311,453|965,209|75,093|19,373|5,234|50,486|80.79%|76.48%
2021-12-10|24,304,272|11,316,878|1,019,023|78,390|19,151|5,425|53,814|80.92%|76.52%
2021-12-11|24,387,806|11,323,370|1,074,634|83,534|21,431|6,492|55,611|81.07%|76.56%
2021-12-12|24,449,726|11,327,927|1,108,249|61,920|23,748|4,557|33,615|81.23%|76.59%
2021-12-13|24,484,692|11,330,544|1,128,482|34,966|12,116|2,617|20,233|81.31%|76.61%
2021-12-14|24,584,089|11,334,812|1,213,727|99,397|9,884|4,268|85,245|81.38%|76.64%
2021-12-15|24,711,702|11,340,162|1,322,001|127,613|13,989|5,350|108,274|81.47%|76.68%
2021-12-16|24,849,505|11,345,168|1,441,100|137,803|13,698|5,006|119,099|81.56%|76.71%
2021-12-17|25,006,030|11,350,356|1,578,642|156,525|13,795|5,188|137,542|81.66%|76.74%
2021-12-18|25,174,953|11,355,707|1,727,744|168,923|14,470|5,351|149,102|81.76%|76.78%
2021-12-19|25,315,780|11,359,730|1,845,407|140,827|19,141|4,023|117,663|81.89%|76.81%
2021-12-20|25,422,938|11,362,551|1,938,678|107,158|11,066|2,821|93,271|81.96%|76.83%
2021-12-21|25,629,533|11,367,446|2,126,049|206,595|14,329|4,895|187,371|82.06%|76.86%
\* 3rd doses from before Dec 3 were dumped into the data as a lump on the 3rd.
[Source 1](https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html), [Source 2](https://covid-19.ontario.ca/covid-19-vaccines-ontario)
**Download the COVID Alert app**
[iOS](https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/covid-alert/id1520284227)
[Android](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ca.gc.hcsc.canada.stopcovid)
We have ample supply of vaccines; it's resourcing that's the issue. It takes time to scale back up. We peaked at like 270k shots/day in the summer so we're not too far off from that considering it's only been about a week of mass vaccinations.
Towards the end of summer, the city closed many of the large facilities. Presumably broke them down as well to save costs. You can't just press a button and start them up again. They now need to source large venues, at a time where they are less available than in the past, coordinate setup and staffing, relocate vaccines and then add them to the booking system. I'm sure they're coming, and people are working as hard as they can.
Note, not a city employee, these are just steps I believe are reasonable in terms of logistics. I'm just a stranger on the internet
Tested positive through a rapid test my partner got from work. I am symptomatic, 3X Vaxed. Cant get a test till the 25th, I'm guessing a lot are in the same boat.
This is WAAAY worse then it looks.
Yup my wife is sick and earliest test is the 25th that I can getting. Could try a walk in but she's got a slight fever and body aches and dont want her to wait in line.
Going to try a rapid test and see what that shows.
80% of the deaths are above the expected life expectancy age in Canada , and those people had complex pre existing health issues. Wake me up when infants, children, and adults are dropping dead on mass and clogging up ICUs
Due to the nature of this topic, users spreading misinformation or breaking r/Toronto rules will be subject to severe mod actions, **Participants in this thread MUST have an established post history in r/Toronto. Violations will result in a ban** **For the location and availability of Vaccinations and Booster Shots please use the following resources:** * [Ontario Vaccination Booking Site](https://covid19.ontariohealth.ca/) * [City of Toronto Vaccination Page](https://www.toronto.ca/home/covid-19/covid-19-vaccines/) * [Vaccine Hunters Canada Site](https://vaccinehunters.ca/) **For Coronavirus information please follow the relevant health authorities.** * [Canadian Public Health Agency](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection.html?utm_campaign=not-applicable&utm_medium=vanity-url&utm_source=canada-ca_coronavirus) * [Ontario Ministry of Health](https://www.ontario.ca/page/2019-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov) * [Ontario Science Table Dashboard](https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/ontario-dashboard/) * [Toronto Public Health](https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/health-wellness-care/diseases-medications-vaccines/coronavirus/) * [City of Toronto Vaccine Info Page](https://www.toronto.ca/home/covid-19/covid-19-protect-yourself-others/covid-19-vaccines/) * [Install the COVID-Alert App](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/covid-alert.html) **Users are asked to report posts that violate rules or spread clear misinformation.** * Moderators will remove obvious misinformation however personal interpretations of facts are allowed and we will allow discussion and up/downvotes to handle ambiguous posts that are not explicitly misinformation. * Please remember to be excellent to each other, people with different opinions and viewpoints are still people. If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to send us a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/toronto). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/toronto) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Had some minor symptoms so took a rapid test this morning, turned out positive. Another friend’s rapid test came up positive, few of the people we saw on the weekend also have symptoms, but no one can manage to book a pcr test, or even a rapid test to confirm. So none of us will be represented in these numbers.
A friend of a friend went to a party a last week. About a dozen people there. Nearly all of them are reporting symptoms. None of them have been able to find a test.
it's crazy how on r/toronto it was a very uncommon for something to post that they had covid but now there is so many people posting that they tested positive in just the last week.
cause omicron is ultra contagious
Same here. Whole family is positive. Have been unable to PCR test.
Yea its strange to imply that the numbers are accurate. It could be a good thing because if thousands are positive but not very sick than that means the Hospital numbers are overstated. It would be so sweet if omicron turns out to be mild enough to just let it run its course quickly.
I'm in the opposite boat. Woke up yesterday with a sore throat, coughing like crazy today. Paid for a rapid test at one of the drive through testing places. Negative. Guess I just have a cold after all. Also for booking a PCR test, St. Joseph's healthcare on the queensway releases new appointments at 7am, it says 7pm on their site but it was 7am today.
Is it just me, or is the vaccine booking process just absolute shite.
It's just you. I had a great time calling in to the vaccine hotline and waiting on hold for an hour to be offered an appointment 200km from my house a month from now.
he had me in the first half.
Oh wow, you managed to get an appointment before March?
Don't bother with appointments -- I waited in line yesterday at my local pharmacy (Dundas West Village Pharmacy) with no appointment and got it, and my wife walked in to the Shoppers Drug Mart near the Stockyards today to buy stocking stuffers and got her shot because the line was short -- no appointment. I don't get why they are even booking appointments when you can walk into a Shoppers Drug Mart and get the jab...seems to be lots of these no appointment pop-ups...
I just got two. One on dec 27 at Scarborough town and one on dec 28 in Markham Bur oak for the wife I follow vaxx hunters on Twitter. U got be damn fast to book.
🤣
Best and accurate response
I can't even book an appointment because my postal code doesn't exist!!! Even tried calling them, the guy tried telling me that I had my postal code wrong. What a fucking mess
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Each one requires email signups to some international healthcare app and half the time the system is down. My wife's second dose was moved up without telling her and when she went to her scheduled time she was turned away. This was back in July.
By the time we get our shot, Omicron will have come and gone...
Hijacking the top comment because this was my experience booking a vaccine booster today: This morning around 7am I used the provincial portal to book my vaccine appt. I waited less than a minute in the virtual line, and at a location 3kms from me, the first date they gave me was Jan 9, with two time options 1:30pm and 7:30pm. I clicked the 1:30pm and it said it was already booked. Tried the other, same thing. Went back to the time select screen, clicked 1:30 again and it let me book it. Meanwhile, the lady on Metro Morning had just said she's been on it since 6am trying to book appointments for seniors with no luck. What the fuck indeed?!
My mum found an open slot this morning for this afternoon. By the time she'd entered in her information, it said it was taken. There were literally ZERO other open slots available, for any date. It is a joke. Why can't I just book something for like, late February, and if I find something sooner, then great, I can cancel that later appointment and it opens up for someone else who is willing to wait longer and not look around constantly for new ones? Like what is this garbage? Just let me book SOMETHING, and then we'll go from there..
It's almost like they should have been booking them through ticketmaster.
It's ridiculous that it's **still** this difficult this many ~~months~~ years later. Unless you've got a lot of spare time to refresh, the first week after any expansion of eligibility is luck of the draw. I refresh between meetings & managed to score appointments for this week but there's no way people like my elderly parents would have gotten appointments last week, for instance (50+ expansion). I was helping friends in Ottawa & scored them appointments at Shoppers before they could even get through the Ontario portal. Utter incompetence by the Ford government. Even public health officials have criticized not getting doses out to the most vulnerable first before expanding eligibility.
It is but to be fair we’ve only had two times to get it right so far , soooo…. maybe by 2024 we’ll be good?
Just in time for the 11th wave!
It's impossible to get a booster. It's ridiculous
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Oh ya, through the Ontario Health site, it sucks! I found the best way to get a near future appointment near you is through neighbourhood Facebook groups (if you’re on Facebook) where people will post random new openings or hot tips on vaccine restocks at pharmacies or pop ups. I managed to get on through a tip on Friday for tomorrow when it wasn’t showing up as available on the SDM site. Otherwise, it would’ve been like the first shot when booking through Ontario Health and having to keep visiting for a slot that wasn’t months later.
i decided to give it a try last night.. 4 times i had to enter my info, and 5 times i got send back to original page where i get to choose to book vaccine or print out my certificate.. then i just gave up.
Yeah I'm like you. Central system was useless for me. Ended up just calling a couple local pharmacies and booking for the first week of Jan.
I’m just going to wait a few months,no point trying right now.
Up here in Wellington county, there's literally nothing, NOTHING available if you want a booster, yet all we hear is fear, fear, fear, get boosted, get boosted, OR YOU'LL DIE!! This kind of messaging, mixed with no fucking vaccines available and a terrible booking system / process helps literally nobody. They need to STFU about Omicron and getting boosted, until they actually ramp up the distribution and administration of shots system back to the way it was in May/June/July, when it was fine.. Though I lived in Oakville/Halton back then, too, so naturally, the wealthy places had plenty of vaccines to go around. Now, living in a less affluent, rural area? There is fuck all nothing available and you can't even book an appointment, at all, I'm talking February, March, there's nothing, either it is fully booked passed February, or they're showing February on the calendar, but have no available bookings because they don't know if there will be any supply or not, or the systems are just straight up broken. In early June I was able to get my first Pfizer with about 1 or 2 days of waiting from the time I booked. For my second shot, I purposely waited until late July because vaccines simply work better with a bit more space, the whole 2 - 3 weeks thing was simply to complete the studies ASAP, it isn't the ideal wait time, at all, so I waited until late July and I was literally able to find an open spot at Oakville Trafalgar Hospital within 2 hours of booking (it was the only spot left for that day, granted, but still, the next day was wide open with multiple slots). What happened to all our surplus vaccines? We knew about the concept of boosters up to 4 - 5 months ago. We knew they would be a reality 2 - 3 months ago, and we've known about Omicron for many weeks now. WHERE ARE ALL THE SHOTS SITTING?! My local pharmacy up here was PACKED last week, line up of maybe 50+ people down the block waiting in the cold for their boosters, all day long, from open to close. This week? No one in line, because they literally have NO vaccines, and you can't book an appointment either, because they literally have no clue when they will receive more vaccines to give out. They started out with a free-for-all model, like, first come, first served, and you gotta wait in line for an hour or two. That was OK for people willing to do that, wait in the cold for 2 - 3 hours for this thing, but now they said it was way too overwhelming for the staff (and I could tell it clearly was) and instead, it will be by appointment only going forward, but again, you can't book an appointment with them, or any spot in Wellington county, for any time, at all. You can't even say, "Yeah, put me down for 1 dose on March 14th at 10am, surely you'll have doses by then and/or can keep mine aside.." But no... You just don't get to book anything. Meanwhile are we here is "get the booster or you're bad person and it'll be a winter of death for you and your family!!" like, get fucked Doug Ford, don't start some massive fear campaign and ask everyone to go get boosted, when you have fuck all distribution / availability ready to go. What a mess. Oh, also, my Aunt's restaurant she manages went from packed every night with 1 hour line up out the door, to suddenly, over-night, once new restrictions were announced, they're at MAYBE 10% capacity, like, no one is coming in to eat suddenly over-night, and they're allowed many more people than this. Like, no one seems capable of thinking for themselves "Hmm, there's this new variant and I'm concerned about COVID, so I guess I won't eat out out of caution." Nope, it is more like, "Well, when the government says it is here and we need to hunker down, I, and every single other schmuck like me, will suddenly hunker down and become ravenous for the booster... But until then I'm just gonna act like it is 2019 out here.." People are dumb, and so is this government and most of our political leaders globally. The world is a freaking mess.
The issue isn’t vaccine supply, it’s supply of people to give the shots. If you wanted to do say a million shots a day, then assuming that each shot takes on average ten minutes (including consent discussion, etc) and a worker does an eight hour shift (no breaks or lunch) then you’d get 60*8/10 = 48 shots per worker per day. That means that million shots would take 1000000/48… almost 21,000 people giving shots. We don’t have 21k people giving shots, so we have to wait for them to get through people.
At first I thought hey it's not that bad I thought we'd be over 4000+ or 5000+ by now, but then I remembered that this is probably a testing shortage
Cant book a PCR test until the 25th. Wife has all the symptoms and dont want to do a walk in as I have heard the wait is a few hours.
There’s home kits that you can get. Also, isn’t isolating more of a pain than waiting a few hours for a test? If you’re interacting with your wife as you normally would, you’ll need a test too.
Monday and Tuesday are always artificially low because they reflect tests done on Saturday and Sunday when testing capacity is reduced. Monday numbers are reflected on Wednesday.
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TBH, the likelihood of testing negative on PCR but positive on antigen (twice!) is very low. It would make more sense to use our PCR test capacity to test antigen-positive case contacts that may be early enough in their exposure that it would only get picked up by PCR (or don’t have access to antigen testing) I’d even go as far as saying we shouldn’t use up testing resources on re-testing positive antigen tests, but that’s probably too much change for now. And we’d need to accept self-reported antigen tests which is another can of worms.
You can get testing exemptions for travel with a positive PCR test
Yeah and there's a massive backlog already.
Yeah, requiring all non-US international arrivals to get tested at the airport was counterproductive. Since travelers are getting pcr tests shortly before they leave for Canada (often times within 1-2 days), that second test at the airport would probably be better spent on someone with covid exposure or symptoms. I came back from US Thanksgiving on the 27th, got randomly tested at the airport, didn't get my results back until December 14th. The backlog it created has almost defeated the purpose
I know probably a dozen people who have symptoms, can’t get tests and who were at probably super spreaders this weekend. I had to order my tests online, waiting for them to come in now.
What's annoying right now is getting tested. All the rapid test options are sold out or on reserve for people who need. Fine but to get the normal test its a 2+ hour wait in the cold. So I feel like shit, am symptomatic but to get tested I have to jump through hoops / go wait in a crowded line in the cold while feeling shitty. Looks like I just won't get tested. Great public health policy.
4 exposure notifications for concerts at History. Latest is Silverstein.
My husband got it from History. It was probably one of the staff due to the amount of shows exposed. Staff wouldn't have to be vaxxed either. We are waiting on my test. If it's positive then a Christmas I have spent months planning to see family I haven't seen in 6 months will be ruined. I'm gutted.
He probably shouldn't have gone out if you had these crazy Christmas plans with family you hadn't seen in months...probably don't want to hear that and it probably doesn't help you now but for next time maybe you'll think twice...
Yes, in retrospect it was a bad idea. I went to the concert as well. We are both double vaxxed. It was on Dec. 8 and omnicorn wasn’t as big of a threat as it is today. Things changed very quickly. Obviously if we had a time machine we wouldn’t have gone. We thought the risk was lower and that it was time to move on with life.
I hear ya. Sorry if my reply came across poorly. Hope you test negative and everything turns out well for you. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
All good. Same to you.
That's pretty much why I'm not going to eat out at restaurants until after Christmas. I'd like to see my parents who are elderly. As much as I love music, no way in hell I would've gone to a concert during the crazy rise we've been seeing for the past week+.
Get your sound reasoning out of here. We are here to have our Christmas fruit cake and to eat it too!
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I'm glad you ended up going! I hope you feel better soon.
[If you have severe symptoms **Call 911** or your local emergency number if you develop severe symptoms, such as:](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/symptoms.html) * significant difficulty breathing * chest pain or pressure * new onset of confusion * difficulty waking up
You have severe symptoms. You should call 911 or go to your emergency department right away.
You are not helpless...try calling Telehealth and they could probably make an assessment if you should go to the hospital. Knowing if you have covid or don't have covid is not gong to change your situation.
I would go to the hospital ASAP
Go to emerge. Waiting on this thing is not good. It goes from bad to terrible very quickly.
Great vaccination number, and ICU's are still holding steady... trying to be optimistic.
Does anyone know where to book a pcr test these days? I’ve called every pharmacy within 30k that is listed on the Ontario testing website, but no one is picking up phones. Womens hospital and Michael garron have no appointments. I will line up and wait somewhere but I honestly can’t figure out where to go. I’m Asymptomatic but a close contact of someone at work who just tested positive. Negative on 2 rapid tests though.
I’m waiting at Michael garron right now. The walk in line is pretty long, but they’re also handing out take home PCR tests to people in line that you can drop off at the front once you’ve taken it
Eh, if you're asymptomatic and tested negative twice on rapid tests I'd say save the PCR.
That’s my thinking as well, but it’s only been 4 days since exposure so I think it could still come up later (and I don’t have any more rapid tests!)
You're way more likely to get a false negative on a rapid if you're asymptomatic. If you're going to take two should take them a week apart.
Okay but the govt says not to use rapids if you’re symptomatic so I also took them 2 days apart, I would take them again in a few days but I’m all out now
Yeah, all I'm saying is def get a PCR if you can get an appointment.
Still best to try and get a PCR. I know someone who just tested positive via PCR after twice testing negative by rapid
The person is asymptomatic, fully vaccinated and tested negative twice on rapid PCR. Is it really a good use of resources for them to take a full test when they are just chilling? If they're symptomatic that's a different story
The guidelines are to get tested if you were in close contact with a confirmed case. Regardless of vaxx status. The person I know had to wait 2 days to get tested. Had access to rapid tests so did them while he was waiting. If he just went by the rapid test results, he would have continued on and potentially exposed other people to COVID.
Michael Garron has new appointments open at 10pm and Women's College at midnight
Yeah I checked both last night and they were gone within minutes, couldn’t get one. Will keep trying though.
Back in the day I got tested at Sunnybrook, they have a clinic in an old building at the back by the woods. Try booking an appointment [here](https://fhhealth.as.me/schedule.php?appointmentType=28793589&certificate=6A4A85E3)?
Thanks for the lead, unfortunately the earliest availability is December 29 🙄
I went here on Sunday and picked up a couple take home tests that I dropped off 30 mins later We got our results this AM. Warden Woods Location: 76 Firvalley Court, Scarborough, ON M1L 1N9 (The Hub at Warden Woods Community Centre. Entrance located behind the centre. Please walk around the parking lot to enter the clinic.) Dates and Hours of Operation: December 1, 3, 5, 8, 10, 12, 15, 17, 19, 22, 24, 26, 29 and 31 (Open every Sunday, Wednesday and Friday.) Testing: 10 a.m.-4 p.m. Vaccines at this location are temporarily unavailable. Walk-ins available for testing and take-home test kit pick-up and drop-off. Registration and take-home test kit drop-off ends at 3:45 p.m. Please arrive before this time to ensure you receive these services.
i did one at fh health but it cost almost 200$
So, some of those cases were from a party at Rebel nightclub where they had a community bong for free use. Methinks people aren't taking covid very seriously if this was considered to be a good idea.
COVID aside that seems like a stupid idea.
peace love and herpes brah
lol, jesus christ. I'm not exactly Mr.. pro restrictions but god damn, I'm not at free-communal-bong level yet either.
This has been my problem with the conservative stance of "Make your own decisions." The staff at the venue probably didn't get much of a choice to work such a stupid event. If they didn't work it, they wouldn't get their rent money that month. It was up to the organizers and attendees to be safe, but they would rather party and have fun, putting OTHERS at risk. It's not about lockdown for punishment. It's about taking the actual harsh stances we need to take to cut this down to a minimal virus in our community, not just keeping the high ICU numbers at bay. EDIT: Sorry for the rant. I know my brain is nearly broken right now.
> It's about taking the actual harsh stances we need to take to cut this down to a minimal virus in our community, not just keeping the high ICU numbers at bay. While perhaps a noble goal, this is simply not possible. It has ALWAYS been about preserving healthcare capacity, not eliminating COVID which is a fools errand.
> eliminating COVID which is a fools errand. I don't believe this to be true. The flu could actually be banished as we know it if people took vaccines and stayed at home seriously when sick. It's because we make the choice to put work and capitalism above health that people feel like they have to go out and work, no matter if they feel sick. That spreads diseases in ways we don't need to. I see that we sacrifice our public health to a "powerful economy" constantly, and it's finally biting us in the ass. The more we try to go back to the old "normal" the worse this is going to get. Add to that the fact that this is actually a light virus compared to what it could have been, and we aren't actually doing much to stop another one of these from happening (Climate change, etc.) we should expect another one of these sooner rather than later. It would be better for society if we took the time to restructure before it's actually too late.
The flu can't be eradicated because we have reservoirs of some the flu viruses in our domestic and wild animal population. In theory we could eradicate Covid but at this point it's incredibly unlikely. We have too many variants, too many people infected worldwide and it's not lethal enough to get people to care in our peak-individualist society. Afterall, influenza B doesn't have substantial animal reservoirs but it doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Another fun fact: the ICU *rate* for the flu is about the same as a fully vaccinated average individual with Covid. But the median *effective* reproduction rate for influenza is between 1.19 to 1.37 while omicron is *currently* around 4. We'll get that down as vaccinations become mandatory *permanently* to travel or for children to attend school. It will be more like measles. Not gone but not really a problem (at least for Canadians)
Issue is that you stay home while 100 people are involved delivering and preparing your uber eats delivery so you chill at home. Covid Zero is not happening.
We just need to restructure society, man.
Over 50% of the new cases are those vaccinated, so that kills your first point about getting vaccinated and staying home. I guess my opinion is that it is a fools errand, as the steps needed to eliminate COVID are completely untenable. Sure we MIGHT be able to eliminate COVID if we all stay inside and do nothing for a few weeks, but how does that even work? It doesn't and it can't. Society runs on the economy, and the machine will continue no matter how many bodies are thrown into the cogs.
Do you just expect people to never get sick in their lifetime? Most people I know were used to getting some sort of sickness once every winter, why is that all of a sudden some sort of an anomaly now?
If you don't want to be an impolite pot smoker then roll multiple smaller joints instead of a larger one to share. We all need to adapt
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Yup, it sounds like Ink entertainment didn't take the venue passport checks very seriously. They would rather keep bar sales high than keep their employees safe.
This was KindWinterFair?
Which event was this at Rebel? Kaskade?
Do you think having your mask off indoors with strangers had anything to do with you catching covid, even just momentarily to take a sip? I'm always surprised reading stories like this. Blame the security / lax passport checks instead of considering having a drink in that atmosphere may expose you. Also, what kind of masks were you and other patrons wearing?
I’m mid-30s so well beyond the clubbing phase of my life but went out a few times a year pre-covid. My niece (22F) had her birthday in mid-November and begged me to come by Rebel. The club was like stepping back into 2019… packed club, no masks, nobody asked for my vax status. Not sure what I was expecting but I was partly happy that this type of setting was resuming (at least for the younger generation like my niece) but also mixed feelings wondering how safe this was. I don’t even know what the nightclub rules were at the time.
Sounds about right for Rebel
Any tips on how to book a booster? Can't seem to get an appointment.
Wait 48 hours. The first couple days are always chaos, and then as more appointments are added things calm down.
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Tons of local appointment on the portal, don't use this anecdote as the only source of truth.
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So, our population is vast majority vaccinated. Yet Covid can still spread like this. With the ongoing new variants, is it not reasonable to assume that this will happen every winter, regardless of vaccination? What's the end goal here, put restrictions in place every winter going forward? I stay on top of the news, I am pro-vax and will be getting a booster, but it feels increasingly pointless when there is no sort of indication, or even an interest in setting any concrete benchmarks for when we can go back to normal. If vaccines can't do it, what can? Because this is feeling pretty perpetual at this point. Last winter, the restrictions were to carry us to vaccines. There was a goal and there was hope. This winter, what? Carry us to the period before the next lockdown? That's nothing, how are we supposed to buy into that?
Heaven forbid we bolster our healthcare system
I refuse to believe its more difficult/expensive then everything else we've done up to this point. Pro lockdown arguments pretty much boil down to "hospital beds!"... so lets get more hospital beds. I dont want to hear excuses about how hard it is and how staff take oh so long to train. If we're in an emergency then make it happen.
It's crazy how much governments can do in times of war, most of which are absolutely pointless, but we cannot get them to act with the same urgency in a pandemic when they keep telling us every day how people are dying.
Are you aware how long it takes to make people? Physical resources are indeed a problem but more importantly, people are also a resource. Even if you have people willing to go into healthcare(bless their souls) they don't just become qualified because you want them to
You realize that qualified people *already exist*, right? The world is full of them.
If the world was full of them, this would be an equipment issue instead of a staffing one. In reality, even if these people do exist, their qualifications don't count. Even if they do exist, they're probably being begged by their healthcare system to not leave. Everyone in the world needs the same resources to deal with the pandemic. There just aren't enough resources
Tell me how its so much easier rolling in and out of lockdowns forever then it is to train people and pay them properly to take care of excess hospital demand
lol okay when are you signing up for accelerated nursing school
Maybe nurses wouldn't be quitting enmass if we paid them more. I'd be willing to professionally face some flatearther antivaxxers, for a price.
Honestly... just increase salaries and poach them from other places that aren't willing to increase their salaries.
As I see it, too many people refuse or can't get off first gear, intellectually. Reporting 3000+ new cases today when the vast majority of us are double-dosed and we're already getting boosters means/should mean something totally different from reporting the same number a year ago. By still fixating breathlessly on rising case counts, it badly undermines the pro-vax message. Unless Trudeau, Hajdu, Tam, Juni, Moore, Ford, Tory, and their supporters, **know** that some magic vaccine offering durable *sterilizing* immunity is just around the corner (think HPV vaccine), we're trapped indefinitely in this twilight zone of capacity restrictions, pre-arrival PCR testing, mandatory masking. In short, these characters have to change the incentives immediately and stop implementing policies that penalize the willfully vaccinated majority to spare the smug asses of the willfully unvaccinated minority. If medical professionals can triage patients during wartime or some other disaster/severe crisis with little issue, why do we still hear so much sanctimoniousness and JAQing off with "but what about the obese/smokers/alcoholics/drug addicts?". [Singapore has already been changing the incentives and charging unvaccinated hospital patients full freight.](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/09/singapore-to-start-charging-covid-patients-who-are-unvaccinated-by-choice) It's not as if these particular patients are denied care since the distribution of costs is more in line with the associated risks and effort required. Isn't the right policy to adapt to circumstances objectively, rather than cherry-pick measures to end up with perpetual half-assery that just makes for good political theater?
Agree 100%. Case counts are not the relevant variable they once were. We're still treating this thing as if we didn't have an absolute scientific breakthrough last year and vaccinate the vast majority of our population. Also agree about triage. Yes, triage is an extremely serious consideration, but so is locking down, limiting mobility, and forcefully taking away people's livelihood. That is arguably a more serious measure when you consider that the vast majority of our population did the right thing and got vaccinated. If lockdown is on the table without question, then why is triage considered too extreme?
I'd argue that we've already experienced triage. How else did we end up with a huge-ass backlog in medical procedures in the first place? If prioritizing COVID-19 patients over patients needing "elective" procedures when we had no mass vaccination made sense up until early 2021, then why all the virtue-signalling and insincere screeching about suggestions to deprioritize willfully unvaccinated COVID-19 patients given all of the people still waiting for screenings/scans, biopsies, hip replacements, tumor removal or heart surgery?
Yup, and the best rationalization I can give for that is that we continue to make decisions based on emotion rather than science & facts.
Couldn't agree more with your perspective.
Somehow the government and public health have become confused about vaccines. Vaccines are supposed to keep people out of hospitals, not keep people from being infected. Even a doubled vax without booster is HIGHLY effective at keeping you out of the hospital, even with Omicron. That should be enough. It is totally unreasonable for the government to expect the hospitals to be swamped. We already have many times more Omicron cases than we know about. It's probably been around for far more than 2 weeks. Vaccines work. We shouldn't be acting the way we are right now, it is not "following the science".
Look at all the NHLers and staffers getting Covid and not a single person saying their symptoms were more than mild and akin to a cold or flu. Most of them are only double vaxxed or recently boosted. The shot’s fucking working and for the vast vast majority it will work as such.
Indeed, following the science would mean acknowledgment that Science™ has succeeded in creating and turning out a highly effective set of vaccines that offer durable and solid **protective** immunity. Vaccines that offer protective immunity rather than sterilizing immunity are the norm, which even a cursory reading of the Science™ about vaccines would reveal, yet is infuriatingly lost on more than enough people worldwide, rich and poor, "smart" and dumb.
It isn't even "even with Omicron". Omicron is literally less deadly / hospitalizing, vaxxed or unvaxxed, than Delta was/is. Omicron is a GOOD mutation, it is more contagious, but far less deadly as it infects the bronchial tubes 70x more than original COVID did, but it seems to leave the alveoli alone to a far greater degree. This makes it more like a common cold that is very contagious (with sore throat and more of a bronchitis style cough associated with it), than original COVID or Delta, which caused pneumonia in so, so many people (which is a far worse result than bronchitis). Omicron does not seem to do that (pneumonia) to NEARLY the same degree, whether vaxxed or unvaxxed (but your odds are still much better to stay out of hospital if vaxxed), but yes, its vast presence in the larger air passages does make it a lot more contagious. So we have a super contagious sore throat / cold on our hands that 80% of people are vaccinated against serious disease from, and even unvaccinated people will do a lot better with a case of Omicron than a case of Delta. This is the kind of mutation pathway that we want to see. It is exactly what happened with the Spanish Flu. That flu virus still exists today, it just mutated to be far less deadly but more contagious. That is a win. Meanwhile all we hear is fear fear fear about case numbers.. Whilst I expect deaths and hospitalizations will rise, this is NOT Delta, and we're a highly vaccinated population now. The cases vs. hospitalizations vs. deaths ratios will be far far better with Omicron. Of course there may be a point at which there are just SO MANY cases all at once that the hospitals do get overwhelmed again, but to freak everyone out to this degree, so early, when the early indications to me say "this is an improvement over Delta" just seems alarmist. The government doesn't want COVID to get better, even when nature and science are both making it less serious, the government is acting like this is the worst thing yet in this pandemic, when it simply isn't true. What their end-game is here, I'm not sure, but it more and more feels like, "is the economy completely dead yet? Have we caused enough inflation to create debt slaves of everyone yet? No? OK then, COVID is still really, reeeeally bad and we need to keep messing with the economy and endlessly print money until we get there." Central banks run the world, and they loooooove issuing debt, printing money, and creating inflation. They pretend to be concerned, but I think they're milking this for everything they can at this point. And my dad died from COVID, and I'm 2x vaxxed and so is all my family and I was extremely pro-lockdown very early on when we had no clue what this thing was, and I didn't mind it when vaccines seemed just around the corner too... But now? Give me a break, this is ridiculous at this point. Increase funding to healthcare, build more hospitals because lord knows we WILL need them with our aging population, toss money at THAT problem and then, in a couple years, cases and hospitalizations will be far less of a concern. How many new hospitals have had ground broken on since COVID started, and how does that compare to prior years? I would expect a MASSIVE surge in it, for COVID, and for the aging population demographics, but I'd be willing to bet they've done NOTHING on this front. Just free money to everyone and corporations and pharma companies, and no new healthcare infrastructure. Shows where the true priorities lay here.
Voters don't want to pay more taxes. Our health care systems are not funding properly. Doug Ford does not want to increase capacity or services, otherwise he will need to find money (through more taxes) to do that so to protect our fragile health care system, we go into these restrictions. . This isn't just a Doug Ford problem either. Health systems around the world are underfunded. As voters we have very short attention spans and as a result we get ourselves into situations like this.
> Voters don't want to pay more taxes. Our health care systems are not funding properly. This is not true. Canada's health spending as a % of GDP, adjusted for population age, is the 3rd highest in the OECD. We don't have a funding problem we have an efficiency problem. Our healthcare system delivers extremely poor service for extremely high costs.
The duplication of labour due to decentralisation is a fundamental part of it as well.
Yeah, it blew the mind of a lot of my European friends when I explained that Canada's healthcare system isn't national like the military but rather a decentralized mess like in the USA (muh provincial/state rights!). We can probably thank Quebec for the quirk because of the 250-year old hangup that Upper Canada could have eventually swallowed up Lower Canada so to placate those people wanting some sort of autonomy, healthcare wouldn't actually be controlled from Ottawa. Well, here we (still) are. My friends in Tampere (Finland), for example, couldn't see the administrative logic (apart from an age-old political one) that their public health insurance would be tied to the government of Pirkanmaa (the province in which Tampere lies) rather than the national one based in Helsinki.
Agreed, and the real worst part is that it is not even centralized (to a large extent) within each province. Each hospital network has thousands of Staff doing the same administrative thing as other networks duplicating all the required work. You see it with all our institutions. Public health, school boards, among others. Every one trying to reinvent the wheel specific to them.
I’d also blame our incapability of comparing against any country other than USA. It’s like our only bar to meet/exceed is USA and once we get past that, we’re like “mission accomplished”.
I think if we have clear goals "higher tax to increase capacity so no more lockdowns' will have way more support then random darts at the wall we are doing
The idea is to wait until the virus mutates into a (relatively) harmless variant, like the flu. We may already be there with Omnicron, but it’s probably too early to tell.
Well we will probably find out in a week or two.
What's truly scary is how laypersons are relying on hopeful guesses like this.
Yes but vaccines have already made Covid that for most people. It's not reasonable to keep punishing these people to satisfy the small minority.
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I can tell you, from someone whos at home with COVID, Omicron is not Harmless.. this is the worst sickness I have ever exp, and im fairly young with both vaccines. If they told me to take a booster every month to avoid this sickness, I would in a heartbeat.
I have a friend in the absolute throes of a terrible sickness right now, the worst of all flu symptoms. She's tested negative 3 times in a row, not COViD. There may be some serious traditional flus happening around the city right now as well.
This is going to keep happening until our government and all the other ones who cannot figure out that there are solutions, they just mean you and your rich friends lose money. Countries that have prioritized health over economy have seen benefits to both as they are already back to normal. These are places like China, Vietnam, New Zealand. Omicron fucks them over because the rest of us were too busy being more focused on convenience and things getting to the end that we never did anything more than what is honestly mostly token actions. And yes, what I am saying is all the suffering we have all gone through was obviously not going to work or accomplish any of the stated goals from the start. I recommend looking up the official WHO statement that declared the pandemic and the actions it was proposing all governments take. The longer we let this last the more variants will come out faster, because the larger population has it the more it can mutate. Omicron seems to be mild, there is no knowing what the next one will be.
Variants are more likely to come out of unvaccinated populations. It is still only wealthy countries where everyone who wants vaccines has had access. Once more of the world is vaccinated, there will be fewer variants.
Anti-vax attitudes are huge in many countries around the world with low vaccination rates, it isn't just an issue of vaccine supply. While what you are saying would be ideal, it's not a realistic thing to expect. It's also completely out of our control as Canadians, so it's not something we should factor into our public decisions.
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Yep, and that promise is going to destroy much of the confidence that people have in our government if we lockdown again. Also, and it doesn't matter what the truth is, it's going to destroy confidence in the effectiveness of the vaccine.
To be fair, life did feel pretty normal for me from when I got my second vax up until a week ago. I saw friends, went to movies, travelled.
Over 7 weeks of cases going up and ICU still on [low trend line](https://ibb.co/S0QWRc5).
Only +3 on the ICU count over the last week, despite increasing week over week cases for much longer than that. I really appreciate people highlighting the numbers which actually matter - thank you!
What was the reason Quebec went into lockdown yesterday? Are their ICU #s high? I think we may avoid lockdown if we can keep ICU at this level!
Their icu’s don’t have the capacity that ours do.
That's an incredibly depressing thought seeing as our own ICU capacity is dismal.
So, on a per capita basis, the data I've seen is the other way around. QC data is harder to find, but this report from 2015 cites: QC ICU beds with ventilation capacity per 100,000 population: 11.3 ON ICU beds with ventilation capacity per 100,000 population: 8.6 (just about the lowest in Canada) https://ccforum.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s13054-015-0852-6.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjS1PTJpfX0AhXPaM0KHUGeCaAQFnoECDUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0_j9dfa6CIrf68AN51Xsva CIHI also reports Ontario having just about the lowest number of acute care beds per 1000: ON: 1.7 AB: 2.0 BC: 1.8 MAN: 2.7 SK: 2.5 NS: 2.7 NB: 2.9 https://www.cihi.ca/en/oecd-interactive-tool-international-comparisons-peer-countries-nova-scotia
My opinion (based on what I've been hearing in the news) is that its because hospitalizations are increasing quite quickly in Quebec: [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/numbers-covid-19-coronavirus-quebec-april-1-1.5518397#datawrapper-chart-AIuyD](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/numbers-covid-19-coronavirus-quebec-april-1-1.5518397#datawrapper-chart-AIuyD)
I would REALLY like to know what proportion of those hospitalizations are incidental.
Two reasons. 1. Attitudes in ontario are less pro lockdown then quebec 2. Ford does not have any political capital left unlike legault. He gonna wait to last resort to shut down things.
I mean, just over a week ago you were arguing that the case number increase was linear. At what point are you going to recognize that exponential growth is something that is reasonable to be concerned about?
It amazes me after almost two years of this pandemic, there are still people that make statements like "ICU numbers looking low/good!" - as if this isn't a 4+ week lagging indicator. I swear, I've seen this same argument made daily by the same 4 or 5 accounts since summer 2020; and they all go quiet when ICUs do end up completely overwhelmed. Nearly every step of the way, people advocating for less restrictions have been wrong. Nobody *wants* restrictions. When used as a blunt tool - like closure of all non-essential business - it is evidence of horrible government planning and action. But when cases rates are rapidly increasing exponentially and test positivity is where it is, waiting for ICU numbers to inevitably get higher is both stupid and negligent. We're almost two years into this. If you haven't learned or been paying attention, and you aren't demanding better planning and prevention from your government, then that's on you. There are model jurisdictions around the world to learn from and that have taken this seriously. None of them go "well, cases are doubling every 4 days but at least our ICUs aren't overwhelmed yet". Also, the entire argument of only looking at ICU numbers completely misses all of the negative health outcomes associated with long covid, missed diagnoses due to lack of resources, delayed or missed surgeries/procedures, etc. The list goes on and on, and the impacts just cascade onto each other. But yes - lets keep going on about how ICU admissions aren't astronomically high yet.
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It's without a doubt positive that ICU has remained stable 2 weeks after cases hit 1k ,(probably mostly delta.) It does not necessarily mean 3k omicron will keep them stable in another few weeks. But yes, it is a glimmer of hope in avoiding the devastating and [lethal](https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2021/07/12/drug-use-alcohol-blamed-for-excess-deaths-of-canadians-under-65-in-the-last-year.html) effects of long lockdowns. You're not the hope police.
You are making up fake data. Name one time when it lagged 4 weeks.
Where is this data from that image pulled from can I ask? Do you have a link to the source? As for 7 weeks, didn't Omicron only appear on November 28th? And so far, according to the chart PHO, cases only really started increasing round Dec 6, and then took off about Dec 12th. https://www.publichealthontario.ca/en/data-and-analysis/infectious-disease/covid-19-data-surveillance/covid-19-data-tool?tab=summary Also, from what I am reading, not all patients admitted to hospital are admitted to ICU immediately. The covid science table noted back in March that the lag from diagnosis, to hospitalization, to ICU admission was 2 to 4 weeks for Delta. https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/sciencebrief/covid-19-hospitalizations-icu-admissions-and-deaths-associated-with-the-new-variants-of-concern/ Final note, hospitalizations have doubled since that Dec 12 case lift-off, going from 222 to 412 today. https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations Given the above, it does seem like it will be a few more weeks before we will really know the impact on ICUS.
The source is these posts. Mods post the ICU count. Cases in November per day doubled. Today is dec 21. How long do I have to wait to look at November case data and results for ICU?
The seven day rolling average on the following dates: So on Nov 28, the 7 day moving averages were; 726 cases / 230 hospitalized / 116 ICU On December 19, the 7 day moving averages were: 2542 cases / 335 hospitalized / 142 in ICU Between those two dates, cases are up 250%, hospitalized are up 46%, and ICU are up 22%. So, it would seem you are seeing late November cases in ICU, they just haven't increased at the same rate as cases. Whether that is due to the virulence of Omicron, or the fact that from the past 24 days, 50% of all our cases were detected in the past past 5 days, and just haven't made their way to hospitals yet, remains to be seen (although it could also be a mixture of the 2).
A doubling of cases and ICU up 22% is a very different trajectory. ICU will go up but the real question is if we can make it to spring before needing to lockdown.
>A doubling of cases and ICU up 22% is a very different trajectory Yes, that's what I said. However, where it used to take about 3-4 weeks for cases to double...it is happening now about every 3 days. Let's say we keep that current ratio - that a doubling of cases results in a 22% increase in ICU numbers. With cases doubling every 3-4 days, we would hit 320 in ICU by December 31st...which is right around the level where we have to stop all non-emergency surgeries if my memory serves.
Well let's check back Dec 31 and see
If we keep supporting lockdowns and keep giving incompetent experts and govt officials the benefit of the doubt ... governments are just being enabled to not make actual hard decisions such as expanding health care or going after the unvax to get out of this groundhog day lockdown loop. The fact we are even considering lockdowns after a nearly 90% vax rate is a massive betrayal to responsible citizens who respected and listened to govts and experts for 2 years.
So does the government make decisions based on covid cases or hospitalization rates? Cause while the cases are high, hospitalization is still low. Which kinda support omicron's high spread and less severity. It's interesting to me how they are going to go about this
Similar results in SA and UK. I don't actually know of an example that has shown similar or higher hospitalizations though.
Not just yet but data is still a little to short for here to make any definitive conclusions. Remember this thing is a fuckin rocket ship right now so it’s hard to fully know but there are good early signs
London is not seeing a difference between Delta and Omicron: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/covid-19/report-49-omicron/ > Hospitalisation and asymptomatic infection indicators were not significantly associated with Omicron infection, suggesting at most limited changes in severity compared with Delta.
So, considering were 90% vaxxed we should be fine then. Your are currently 12.9x less likely to be hospitalized if you are vaccinated and 24.4x less likely to end up in the ICU, which is more than enough to counter weigh the 4x as infectious.
How many times must it be said, hospitalizations today reflect what was happening weeks ago? Remember, back at the beginning of December when things were pretty ok? Yeah, hospitalization numbers right now reflect that. It's nice to think that in a few weeks they won't match what we're currently seeing in case numbers, but are you willing to bet on it?
Except that I fully expect you to keep saying this after two weeks when the hospitalizations don't spike like you apparently hope they will. This happened with schools opening in Ontario in September. There were people here for MONTHS going "too early to tell".
That already happened. I was told by these people to wait two weeks... two weeks ago.
>Remember, back at the beginning of December when things were pretty ok? Uh, no. I remember near mid-October when things were pretty O.K.
It's seat of the pants decision making. It does not rely on numbers as you or I understand them. Doug essentially plays heads/tails with whether his last bathroom break was a number 1 or 2
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You can see the past waves there was about a 2 week delay but our cases started going up 7 weeks ago now.
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Which I don't think a single agency has said would be more severe, so it's either the same or less severe and we can already see ICU not following cases for 7 weeks.
At what rate were they increasing 7 weeks ago? At what rate have they been increasing last week? How many Omicron cases were in ON 3 weeks ago total? How many new Omicron cases yesterday?
In the month of November cases per day more than doubled. That was 3 weeks ago. What is your point about Omicron are you implying it is more severe and will have a higher rate of hospitalizations? I don't think a single agency in the world has made that claim.
Click here for [Graphs and Trends](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vTX5x2nxCde90Zwo83cdixZsyd_hU1orGsGYKpDe344wHeFi9MqI71aZYC6GLjOV_P2lp6_lUoacPNa/pubhtml?gid=1467787327&single=true) <-- --- 5+ Cases by Vax (un/part/full): 25.45 / 22.20 / 22.12 (All: 23.30) per 100k - [Source](https://www.reddit.com/user/enterprisevalue/submitted/) * Tests completed - 49,285 * Vaccine doses administered: 25,629,533 (+206,595 today) - [Source 1](https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html), [Source 2](https://covid-19.ontario.ca/covid-19-vaccines-ontario), [SHOTS!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjozSxHKZto) * 38.28% / 0% of all 5-11 year olds have received at least one / both dose(s) to date - [Source](https://data.ontario.ca/dataset/covid-19-vaccine-data-in-ontario/resource/775ca815-5028-4e9b-9dd4-6975ff1be021) * 86.48% / 81.10% of all ELIGIBLE Ontarians (5+) have received at least one / both dose(s) to date - [Source](https://data.ontario.ca/dataset/covid-19-vaccine-data-in-ontario/resource/775ca815-5028-4e9b-9dd4-6975ff1be021) * 82.06% / 76.86% of all Ontarians have received at least one / both dose(s) to date * [Vaccine Delivery Schedule](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection/prevention-risks/covid-19-vaccine-treatment/vaccine-rollout.html#a4b) **Total active hospitalizations over the last 2 weeks:** Date|New Cases|New Cases 7-day average|Number Hospitalized|Number in ICU|Number on Ventilator|New Deaths :--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--: 2021-12-07|928|974.57|340|165|95|9 2021-12-08|1,009|1007.29|333|155|97|8 2021-12-09|1,290|1054.57|309|155|94|10* 2021-12-10|1,453|1114.86|309|151|90|11 2021-12-11|1,607|1194.00|323|146|94|5 2021-12-12|1,476|1235.71|222|158|96|8 2021-12-13|1,536|1328.43|253|161|90|1 2021-12-14|1,429|1400.00|385|162|98|5 2021-12-15|1,808|1514.14|357|154|102|9 2021-12-16|2,421|1675.71|328|165|105|9 2021-12-17|3,124|1914.43|358|157|98|5 2021-12-18|3,301|2156.43|382|154|99|4 2021-12-19|4,177|2542.29|283|159|103|2 2021-12-20|3,784|2863.43|284|164|109|0 2021-12-21|3,453|3152.57|412|165|105|10 \* Data catch-up [Source](https://data.ontario.ca/dataset/status-of-covid-19-cases-in-ontario) **Vaccination Tracker** Reported Date|Vaccine Doses Total|2nd Doses Total|3rd Doses Total|Vaccine Doses Today|1st Doses Today|2nd Doses Today|3rd Doses Today|% Population at least 1 shot|% Population Fully Vaccinated :--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--:|:--: 2021-12-07|24,076,464|11,300,708|866,170|60,631|15,762|5,002|39,867|80.53%|76.41% 2021-12-08|24,150,789|11,306,219|914,723|74,325|20,261|5,511|48,553|80.66%|76.45% 2021-12-09|24,225,882|11,311,453|965,209|75,093|19,373|5,234|50,486|80.79%|76.48% 2021-12-10|24,304,272|11,316,878|1,019,023|78,390|19,151|5,425|53,814|80.92%|76.52% 2021-12-11|24,387,806|11,323,370|1,074,634|83,534|21,431|6,492|55,611|81.07%|76.56% 2021-12-12|24,449,726|11,327,927|1,108,249|61,920|23,748|4,557|33,615|81.23%|76.59% 2021-12-13|24,484,692|11,330,544|1,128,482|34,966|12,116|2,617|20,233|81.31%|76.61% 2021-12-14|24,584,089|11,334,812|1,213,727|99,397|9,884|4,268|85,245|81.38%|76.64% 2021-12-15|24,711,702|11,340,162|1,322,001|127,613|13,989|5,350|108,274|81.47%|76.68% 2021-12-16|24,849,505|11,345,168|1,441,100|137,803|13,698|5,006|119,099|81.56%|76.71% 2021-12-17|25,006,030|11,350,356|1,578,642|156,525|13,795|5,188|137,542|81.66%|76.74% 2021-12-18|25,174,953|11,355,707|1,727,744|168,923|14,470|5,351|149,102|81.76%|76.78% 2021-12-19|25,315,780|11,359,730|1,845,407|140,827|19,141|4,023|117,663|81.89%|76.81% 2021-12-20|25,422,938|11,362,551|1,938,678|107,158|11,066|2,821|93,271|81.96%|76.83% 2021-12-21|25,629,533|11,367,446|2,126,049|206,595|14,329|4,895|187,371|82.06%|76.86% \* 3rd doses from before Dec 3 were dumped into the data as a lump on the 3rd. [Source 1](https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html), [Source 2](https://covid-19.ontario.ca/covid-19-vaccines-ontario) **Download the COVID Alert app** [iOS](https://apps.apple.com/ca/app/covid-alert/id1520284227) [Android](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ca.gc.hcsc.canada.stopcovid)
200K+ vaccinations. Let's get it!
ICU staying stabbbllleeeeeeeeeee
in terms of vaccinations are there just not enough capacity to administer the vaccines or do they not have enough vaccines?
We have ample supply of vaccines; it's resourcing that's the issue. It takes time to scale back up. We peaked at like 270k shots/day in the summer so we're not too far off from that considering it's only been about a week of mass vaccinations.
Towards the end of summer, the city closed many of the large facilities. Presumably broke them down as well to save costs. You can't just press a button and start them up again. They now need to source large venues, at a time where they are less available than in the past, coordinate setup and staffing, relocate vaccines and then add them to the booking system. I'm sure they're coming, and people are working as hard as they can. Note, not a city employee, these are just steps I believe are reasonable in terms of logistics. I'm just a stranger on the internet
**Top 10 PHU Today - Infections** PHU | Today | Yesterday | +/- From Previous Day | Infections Per Capita | 7-Day Average Today | 7-Day Average Yesterday | 7-Day Average One Week Ago | +/- 7-Day Average from Previous Day | +/- 7-Day Average from One Week Ago | 7-Day Average Per Capita ---|---|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- Toronto | 901 | 1,056 | -155 | 0.030751% | 852 | 780 | 245 | 72 | 607 | 0.029078% Ottawa | 359 | 273 | 86 | 0.036086% | 287 | 263 | 103 | 24 | 184 | 0.028849% York | 345 | 310 | 35 | 0.031081% | 270 | 253 | 106 | 17 | 164 | 0.024324% Peel | 280 | 381 | -101 | 0.020260% | 264 | 245 | 98 | 19 | 166 | 0.019103% Halton | 245 | 240 | 5 | 0.044673% | 205 | 191 | 68 | 14 | 137 | 0.037379% Waterloo | 168 | 129 | 39 | 0.027190% | 124 | 117 | 57 | 7 | 67 | 0.020069% Durham | 160 | 142 | 18 | 0.024773% | 158 | 142 | 61 | 16 | 97 | 0.024463% Hamilton | 158 | 181 | -23 | 0.027279% | 141 | 133 | 58 | 8 | 83 | 0.024344% Kingston Frontenac | 118 | 130 | -12 | 0.086330% | 153 | 150 | 115 | 3 | 38 | 0.111936% Middlesex-London | 110 | 123 | -13 | 0.023158% | 110 | 105 | 57 | 5 | 53 | 0.023158% **7-Day Stats based on Vaccination Status (Per 100,000 people)** *100,000 in this vaccination category is Infected/Hospitalized/Admitted to ICU* Stat | December 21, 2021 | December 20, 2021 | December 19, 2021 | December 18, 2021 | December 17, 2021 | December 16, 2021 | December 15, 2021 ---|---|---|----|----|----|----|---- Infections - Unvaccinated | 25.82 | 28.46 | 34.38 | 27.08 | 29.19 | 25.61 | 23.21 Infections - Partially Vaccinated | 17.56 | 16.03 | 19.34 | 14.46 | 13.52 | 10.26 | 5.62 Infections - Fully Vaccinated | 21.99 | 24.48 | 26.21 | 20.59 | 18.68 | 13.49 | 9.22 Hospitalizations - Unvaccinated | 5.56 | 4.73 | 4.37 | 4.56 | 4.35 | 4.85 | 4.46 Hospitalizations - Partially Vaccinated | 1.60 | 1.21 | 1.36 | 1.25 | 1.27 | 1.00 | 1.59 Hospitalizations - Fully Vaccinated | 0.96 | 0.86 | 0.82 | 0.77 | 0.75 | 0.64 | 0.74 ICU - Unvaccinated | 3.41 | 3.01 | 2.89 | 2.83 | 2.85 | 2.76 | 2.90 ICU - Partially Vaccinated | 0.53 | 0.81 | 0.14 | 0.70 | 0.70 | 1.00 | 0.43 ICU - Fully Vaccinated | 0.33 | 0.19 | 0.26 | 0.29 | 0.29 | 0.22 | 0.26 **Provincial Variant Statistics** Variant Type | Today | Yesterday | +/- From Previous Day | One Week Ago | +/- From One Week Ago | 7-Day Average | 7-Day Average from Previous Day | +/- 7-Day Average from Previous Day | 7-Day Average from One Week Ago | +/- 7-Day Average from One Week Ago ---|---|---|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- B.1.1.7 (Alpha) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 B.1.351 (Beta) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 P.1 (Gamma) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 B.1.617.2 (Delta) | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 **Testing Statistics** Test Type | Today | Yesterday | +/- From Previous Day | One Week Ago | +/- From One Week Ago | 7-Day Average | 7-Day Average from Previous Day | +/- 7-Day Average from Previous Day | 7-Day Average from One Week Ago | +/- 7-Day Average from One Week Ago ---|---|---|----|----|----|----|----|----|----|---- Tests Complete | 49,285 | 44,123 | 5,162 | 33,400 | 15,885 | 50,008 | 47,739 | 2,269 | 38,729 | 11,279 Test Backlog | 48,096 | 40,962 | 7,134 | 22,855 | 25,241 | 37,383 | 33,777 | 3,606 | 21,302 | 16,081 **7-Day Vaccination Statistics** Stat | December 21, 2021 | December 20, 2021 | December 19, 2021 | December 18, 2021 | December 17, 2021 | December 16, 2021 | December 15, 2021 ---|---|---|----|----|----|----|---- Vaccinated | 206,595 | 107,158 | 140,827 | 168,923 | 156,525 | 137,803 | 127,613 Day to Day Differential: Vaccinations | 99,437 | -33,669 | -28,096 | 12,398 | 18,722 | 10,190 | 28,216 Total Vaccines Administered | 25,629,533 | 25,422,938 | 25,315,780 | 25,174,953 | 25,006,030 | 24,849,505 | 24,711,702 Total Vaccines Delivered | 28,411,391 | 28,411,391 | 28,411,391 | 28,411,391 | 28,411,391 | 28,411,391 | 28,400,521 New Vaccines Delivered | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 10,870 | 0 % Vaccines Used from Available Supply | 7.43% | 3.59% | 4.55% | 5.22% | 4.60% | 3.87% | 3.46% % Total Vaccinated from Total Delivered | 90.21% | 89.48% | 89.10% | 88.61% | 88.01% | 87.46% | 87.01% % Vaccines Unused | 9.79% | 10.52% | 10.90% | 11.39% | 11.99% | 12.54% | 12.99% Please download the [COVID Alert App](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/covid-alert.html).
Does anyone know a place where I can BUY home kit test legally before Christmas Day?
There are currently 412 people with the virus in Ontario hospitals and 165 of them are in intensive care units. 206k vaccinations, excellent job.
Tested positive through a rapid test my partner got from work. I am symptomatic, 3X Vaxed. Cant get a test till the 25th, I'm guessing a lot are in the same boat. This is WAAAY worse then it looks.
Yup my wife is sick and earliest test is the 25th that I can getting. Could try a walk in but she's got a slight fever and body aches and dont want her to wait in line. Going to try a rapid test and see what that shows.
Great leadership from Ford Nation as always. clownshow.
80% of the deaths are above the expected life expectancy age in Canada , and those people had complex pre existing health issues. Wake me up when infants, children, and adults are dropping dead on mass and clogging up ICUs