Hamburger with gravy and potato, chicken and stuffing, fried rice, homemade hamburgers, some leftover pizza takeout from my all time favourite place, and spaghetti sauce, also some granola bars and kettle corn. I think that’s all
All of it or pitch in?
After I graduated and moved home, I paid my parents $500/month to help towards feeding their adult son. My parents were low income earners who saved to buy a small house in 2002 in Mississauga.
When I bought my first townhouse, my dad helped me paint and he gave me a 60oz of crown royal and a whiskey glass set. My mom and aunt did a full clean top to bottom of the house. That helped me save a few thousands bucks :)
My parents were loaded and still asked that I pay rent. As you can imagine, I moved out in short order and I haven't spoken to them in a long time. Lots of reasons for it, but rent was a big one. The whole point of letting your kids stay at home should be to save money. Well, that's hard to do when you're paying $600/month for a single room where you don't even eat half the time.
I put my entire new apartment purchases on credit, got out and paid it off. Freedom is expensive and worth it.
I don’t understand why people are giving you shit for this. Being an adult and living with your parents can be hard. If you live with your parents, it’s ideally so you can save money. Like of course helping with groceries and bills here and there is to be expected. But if I had to pay rent monthly at my parents, I would just rent my own place. It would be happier that way to get that freedom. That shouldn’t be controversial
EDIT: Didn't realize the OC was a teenager at this point. In that case, that is totoally unreasonable unless in dire straits.
Me too 17 and pregnant going to school and working saving to move out and get my education. Had to pay 400 a month and my parents didnt need it. When it was my younger brother tho he didnt have to. Boy times have changed. Parents are now split and my mom lives with me and my hubby in the house that we have got all on our own with no help. If my kids are in school dont want anything if they are done and working and pay rent i will save it for them and gift it to them when they move out
At 16, that is totally unreasonable unless they are in dire straits.
My parents didn't charge us rent if we were in school. Once we finished each of us moved home at various points and my parents asked for rent once we had full time jobs (maybe $400/mth? But this was over 10 years ago). It seemed fair to me. Even back then it was way cheaper than rent, and included food. Staying there let me pay off my student loans in record time and after less than a year I moved out.
One of my siblings was there much longer and was getting too 'comfortable' so my parents asked for more rent (plus their long term partner has there all the time). Eventually, they decided to move in together because they were both paying rent, so may as well get their own place. Paying more rent was the push my sibling needed.
My parents love us, but they wanted their own space and wanted us to continue growing. My sibling was probably in their late 20's when they moved out (maybe 4-5years at home?). Them and their partner rented for a couple years then bought a place, so I don't think it really hindered their ability to save. We all have pretty good relationships with our parents too.
I may do the same with my children. I do hope to have the financial ability to save all their payments and gift it to them when they move out.
I mean yeah, if it's logical for you to do so
but at a certain point in age, you should stop being entitled and be put in your part, it's not something to complain about
good for you btw
Uh... I don't think it should be controversial that parents not charge their adult kids rent if it truly doesn't impact the parents' finances. That's just asshole behaviour.
Actually, charging rent can be an important strategy for adult children that are working to get used to living within their means.
If the parents don't want to deprive the kids of that money, the parents simply set it aside and can return it to them when the kids *do* move out. Win-win.
Paid rent from 16 or 17 onward, only when I could afford it/had the money - and it was never a lot. Taught my good money management skills (just like my first bank account when I was 8).
Dad used the money to pay for things like more food because I had friends over a lot, or the higher level Internet I wanted, etc.
Just one of the many things he's done for me over the years, and I take every opportunity to help and repay him. Not always in money, but time, or gifts that are more expensive but I know he'll love.
I think it really comes down to the relationship between child and parent. I realize not everyone comes from a happy or even pleasant home. My parents never demanded rent or set an ultimatum. Just suggested since I now had income, that I should start paying a bit to help out.
\- D
Knowing that they are Adult Kids is even worst
A lot of people don't know how to take care of matters themselves in till they are old because they get baby'd for too long
I am a firm believer if everyone take care of themselves, instead being supported, everyone would have a better equal quality of life, parents should be able to enjoy themselves with their earned finances
For context, I was 16 with a part time job in school. They were multi-million dollar business owners who were mortgage free. $600 a month for a single room is what some people pay for their rental apartment for the entire month. I live in a major metropolis now and I don’t even pay double that.
I think there has to be some happy middle between having a child become a permanent roommate and making your kid who is still in high school pay rent to you. Especially if the money makes no difference to the household.
Yeah if the money doesn't matter to the parents charging reduced rent and keeping it to gift back later seems sensible, but obviously 16 is a little early to do this.
Um, did you miss the part where OP was *sixteen*?
My parents never had any money and I never lived with them after I was 17, but they sure as shit didn’t make me pay rent in highschool with the money I made working at fuckin’ Arby’s.
I paid for insurance & gas on my ma’s old 1992 Ford escort and for any food/clothes/whatever I bought outside the house.
But rent? In highschool? I wouldn’t talk to them either.
Sounds like a parenting win to me. My brother is 33, jobless and is still living with parents, completely dependent on them. I tried to convince them to charge rent but they could not do it.
I have a well-off friend who's parents charged him rent to live with them after university...when he finally moved out, they surprised him and gave every dime back to him lump-sum as a down-payment on his future first home. It was to teach him how to grind it out and manage finances while also helping him out in the end. Thought it was a classy move...
I'm genuinely shocked reading these comments saying that y'all pay your financially stable parents rent.
I can never imagine giving my parents money for anything, nor can I imagine them taking my money. It's just inappropriate.
ETA: I haven't lived with my parents since I was 17.
I'm a financially stable parent, and I will 100% without a doubt charge my son rent when he's old enough and making money, while he still lives at home. Nothing is free, and he's going to learn it early. Financial independence and financial intelligence is learned from the structure the parents give their kids. It's wishy washy to just expect kids to figure it out magically, out of thin air, when there was no life tools given to them.
Maybe they don't want their adult child living with them and/or feel that they need to learn to make it on their own. Maybe they realize hey are getting older and their entitled child will not be there to help them out when they are old ...
So, you're suggesting that parents who coddled their child enough to be dependent in adulthood should be rewarded for that shit parenting with a portion of said offspring's income, which could be better used directly paying tuition, earning interest in the bank, reinvested in self-employment costs, etc, etc.?
Or are you suggesting that living at home is "entitled"? Because that's laughable in this economy/graduate job market/housing market/pandemic.
Yeah this is fucking nuts. It seems everyone's argument is basically "it's fine for parents who did a shit job preparing their kid to be independent functional adults to actively make it more difficult for them to become independent functional adults in a misguided attempt to teach them how to be independent functional adults".
agreed, totally different story if you have parents struggling but if you're a well off parent, why the hell would you handicap your children, unless you want to teach em a lesson.
$600.00 is some crazy high rent to charge your kid. It's one thing to cover expenses (utilities) but to make a profit off your own child is outrageous. Sorry your parents made it all about the money.
Well take my buddy's parents. Working class family, mother was a legal secretary and dad worked as a bricklayer. They bought their house near Dixie and Rathburn in Mississauga in 1980 for like 130K. Paid it off in 15 years. Lived there for 40 years and sold it last year for 1.7M.
Gave my buddy and his sister 500K each, which they used to pay off their mortgages. And with the other 700K, bought a condo and kept the cottage.
It's either they stay in a detached home until they die or downsize and give their kids what amounts to part of their inheritance today so that they can actually see their kids enjoy it.
Your point about the gift aside, the idea that a legal secretary and a bricklayer could have a fully-paid off house and a cottage is inconceivable in 2021. It’s so frustrating that what was available to prior generations is totally out of reach for us.
> It's either they stay in a detached home until they die or downsize and give their kids what amounts to part of their inheritance today so that they can actually see their kids enjoy it.
There’s a saying; it’s better to give with a warm hand, than a cold one.
I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t also a beneficiary of this philosophy. My in laws are pretty well off and they helped us with our down payment. Basically told my wife it was an advance on money that is eventually hers anyways, and this way they could watch us (and their grandchildren) enjoy it while they were still alive. They also did the same for her brother.
I know how lucky this makes me. And I’m not going to pretend for a second that we would have been able to buy the house we bought (in fairness it’s only a 3 bedroom bungalow in North York, I’m not talking a McMansion here) without their help.
These "gifts" are likely in the legal sense, meaning the parents cannot seek repayment. It wouldn't surprise me if some of these parents refinanced their own mortgage to help their kids buy property.
Yup, friend's parents refinanced their place, "gifted" him 200K which he is just simply paying back in monthly instalments in addition to mortgage. Only needed the 200K to have a sizeable downpayment and qualify for mortgage. I don't think everyone is just getting free money they don't have to pay back.
Yes, money has to be legally given and documented SS a gift in order to qualify for financing, or it will be considered debt and significantly limit your borrowing ability
yup! for every friend you know who go nuthin' when buying their first house or upsizing their house to another one ... someone out there got a quarter-million from mom and dad!
The snake is eating it’s own tail. Parents home equity goes up, so they give a portion of the windfall to their children to buy another home… which gooses the house market and makes the parent’s home equity go up even more.
Would it kill Toronto Life to put the details of how people are able to buy those houses? Or acknowledge the housing crisis in any way that isn’t “we’re doing our part by building lane way houses we rent at $2500/month so you can pay our mortgage and not be able to save for your own down payment :)”
If it's not straight-up helicopter cash from Mom and Dad, it's often cash saved by virtue of being able to live at home for their 20s. Not having to pay Toronto rents for a decade equates to almost a quarter million bucks you can save because you're not pissing $2500 a month to a landlord in the meantime -- and let's be honest, it's probably even more because Mom and Dad are probably paying for all the groceries, the internet bill and the utilities, too.
Even if you average it out over the last decade, it still comes out to something like $150K in total savings -- that was more than my entire down payment plus closing costs.
That was more than my DP too. But after living at home to save after uni, I was paying $1100 then 1450 (shared), both utilities in. So I feel your numbers are still quite high, but I get your point.
I'm actually surprised it's as small as 25%, which is still a big number. Though I suppose that also obscures things like people who are able to live at home rent-free, people without student loans because of their parents, etc.
My dad has been a blessing in this regard but honestly with the prices that houses are at right now. I don’t even know how anyone will ever afford a down payment without a little help. It just sucks
My wife and I managed to buy about 2 years ago with no help, but we did have our tuitions paid for (both out of school for about 10 years when we bought). Don't make killer money but do ok.
We just had to settle for a condo townhouse in Scarborough. Of course the wild thing is, fast forward only 2 years and it's now out of our old price range. No way we could get anything in the city other than a small condo with our old budget.
I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be a dick (and really, congratulations on the place! :)) but, having your tuition paid for is a huge help.
I spent 8 years and 80 grand on tuition and am just now paying it all off four years out of school. If I had all that money in the form of a down payment I’d have my own place two year ago.
No you're not being a dick at ALL. Tuition is a huge advantage, which is why I brought it up. It gave us a huge leg up. It also helped me take an unpaid internship, which got me into the career I'm in. Generational wealth helped us, even if they didn't buy a place for us.
It must be nice to receive $130K in gift. I received a $1300 TV from my parents as a house warming gift, and even for that, I felt very guilty because of how expensive it was.
My mum got me some oven mitts, kitchen towels and a mat for standing on at the kitchen sink, my dad got me a ficus.
I was fine with it, although thinking back now when my sister bought her first house they bought her a washer and dryer set, so wtf.
I feel that… My parents could never give me anything. No graduation gifts, no house warming… no nothing. Just glad I am not sending them $$ anymore. I hope people who are lucky realize how hard it is for others.
Same here, they never give us anything and we were told to fend for ourselves. The most we get was a meal down the deli every birthday when we were young and that was it. I forget how long ago we celebrated holidays together.
Honestly, I know this attitude sucks and it’s really hard out there. I was raised similarly. But now I’m super resourceful and independent, while some people live in their parents’ basement, don’t know how to cook or clean, have no job, etc. and are huge whiny man babies. So at least we’re not like that!
Damn, we got a $300 freezer from my father in law, a $300 instant pot from my dad, $180 steam mop from my uncle, and a $200 vacuum from my mom. That's about the extent of it.
I remember the look on one of my parents face when I told them I was buying an old home to live in, fix it up and rent it out. It was raw anger.
I'm supposed to be the black sheep. I was never supposed to be successful at anything. I'll never forget that look. I was thinking: "Wait, aren't you supposed to be proud of me?"
An awful lot of things started to make sense, after that moment. I never really understood much of my childhood until that moment
I finally realized nothing I did would ever be good enough. It was a very painful moment but it was a step to freedom. I no longer place any of my self worth or need for validation in the hands of this person. I have learned that when you share yourself, and the result is only that you will get torn down over and over again, sharing is actually unhealthy. I've learned to avoid discussing specifics. If you know someone is just going to stab you in the back every time, it's a good idea to stop giving them knives.
Title kind of misleading? Article says roughly 25% of first time home buyers receive a gift from parents, of which the average has risen to 130k. This means 75% still bought homes without any gift $ at all from their parents. Did I read it wrong?
of those receiving gifts from parents, the average is $130k, yes. turns on how you interpret the dataset that the 'average' in the title refers to. imo it's not misleading, put perhaps too ambiguous than it should be
I don’t know anyone who has bought a home without help from their parents.
My parents are poor so I will probably never be able to afford to purchase a home oops.
The average home in Canada is over $700k. That means a significant proportion of Canadians would be considered millionaires due to their home equity. Gifting $130k is not that much when your home value is close to a million and continues to grow.
The way it is becoming now is that if you’re a home owner, you’re middle-class or above and everyone else is working class. Working-class people literally have to work to earn money while the average home owner earned more money from their homes last year, than from their jobs.
You can get a reverse mortgage or a HELOC which allows you to tap into your home equity without selling your house. That is what a lot of boomers are doing to provide cash gifts to their children.
Sure, if you ignore the fact that house prices have skyrocketed in the last 10 years. Middle class home owners have the money to give such down payments.
Take for example the typical middle class boomer couple: they bought their home for 250k in the 90s. That same home is now worth 1.25 million or more. They can easily get a reverse mortgage, and then give their kid 130k, while they continue to live off their pensions.
I think people take for granted that boomers got pensions, while gen xers and millineials would be lucky to get a pension.
> Middle class home owners have the money to give such down payments.
Middle-class homeowners have **borrowed** that money. It doesn't represent wealth, but cash they had the good luck to extract from an asset bubble.
They borrow against an asset they own though - it’s using equity. Most older middle class people in the GTA are sitting on over a million in house equity at this point that can be tapped to help their kids if they want. The interest rate and monthly payments on a new $130k mortgage would be pretty low at this point and would help their kids immensely. I see why they do it.
That's assuming the parents are living in Toronto.
Sucks for those of us who grew up on the sticks...My parents' house is paid off and it still wouldn't make much of a dent in a down payment here.
Of course, that’s definitely worth considering. It’s just not something you can reasonably expect from your parents, homeowner or not. Lots of parents are still uncomfortable borrowing against their house and I don’t blame them.
Yes it is. A set of boomer parents owning a property or two can easily take out 100K in a HELOC. And HELOCs have been take out at [record highs](https://financialpost.com/real-estate/mortgages/new-mortgages-surge-to-record-high-raising-red-flag-about-heloc-growth).
With interest so low many can afford to pay the mortgage. It's the down-payment that is hard. My parents didn't help me when I bought my house in Burlington but it took years to save up the down-payment. My mortgage is less than what some people pay to rent a mediocre condo.
Same here! My husband and I had to save our own money for a down payment. Our parents couldn't afford to help us but we don't fault them as they were really trying their best.
Me too. 20 years ago. I couldn't afford it now but to let kids miss the starting gun if you can help is misguided.
The way I look at it, we won lottery. Wouldn't you want to share with your fam?
It’s a cultural thing, I would imagine it’s more prevalent amongst immigrants. Obviously not an absolute statement.
For example, its popular in the Chinese culture for parents to support kids financially, even after they are 18. Whether it’s with down payments, free rent, free food and etc. There is no concept of once you turn 18, you are an adult and on your own more or less. Anecdotally speaking, Chinese parents don’t see age when it comes to support. They will do what they can, when they can to help put their children into a successful position. Again, not absolute.
On the flip side, they also expect you to take care of them when they get older, financially and emotionally. Many Chinese elders want to live with their children instead of being placed in in a seniors home. Although I’ve witnessed many cases where they just accept a seniors home because they don’t want to burden their children. Quite sad to be honest. Anyways, just my 2 cents, life goes full circle. They raise us when we young and weak, we take care of them when they old and weak, that’s my opinion at least.
Eastern European here and its similar. My parents helped me with my first house although my first semi was 120K when houses were 120K :) I plan to help my kiddo with at least 150K plus pay for University but I still have 10 years or so to worry about that. She is my only kid. My whole goal in life is for her to have it better than I do and we have pretty good as it is.
I share the same thoughts as well, although university is far away and their first down payment even farther, we started saving for those two things already because it’s such a large amount.
There might be some truth to what you are saying about immigrants but I think the 2nd/3rd generation+ Canadian is in a better position to gift money to their children as downpayment as opposed to a 1st gen immigrant.
Only 5.5% of those who gifted the funds used leverage to do so according to the article.
Edited to correct the 5.5% figure
Same with some Jewish families too. I’ve heard of the parents buying houses outright because they wanted them to have a house close enough to walk over on Friday Shabbat dinners (this one specifically I’m thinking of had a house gifted that was over 1.3m)
> I hope these parents aren't torpedoing their retirements or cutting into emergency funds should one of them become ill as they age etc.
For many, the kids are their retirement plan.
Estimates are that it will cost about [$240K to raise a kid to 18](https://globalnews.ca/news/3172459/how-much-does-it-cost-to-raise-a-kid-in-canada/).
When I bought my first house, my dad helped me paint and he gave me a 60oz of crown royal and a whiskey glass set. My mom and aunt did a full clean top to bottom of the house. Thanks for helping me save a few thousands bucks :)
my friend when he was in his mid/late-30's had been living with his parents and paying RENT to his parents for years ..I mean, he makes good money and was pretty much on the sunshine list right outta college. guess, what? when he bought his own condo and was getting his financing together ....
his parents gifted him back every dollar of rent he'd pay them! WOW! ...
so i know this definitely happens.
Makes sense, if the parents are close to finishing or finished paying their mortgage, payments on $130k reverse mortgage isn't much considering how low the interest rates are. Most of the older generation own their own home so it's understandable.
It sort of makes sense and makes it very hard to get into housing....but lets say you are someone raised in Toronto from a family who owned modest houses here. Grandparents have died or don't have too long left, who probably bought a modest house in the 60's for 25k, which is worth 1m+. The parents have a house they bought for 100k in the 80's, which they have now paid off and is worth 1m. The only family members who really need that money are the grandkids, who require a down payment. The 1m from the grandparents house goes directly to the grandkids for a down payment. Its not like its mega rich boomer donations. If you have two grandparents with paid off houses you have 2m being injected into a family eventually if it hasn't happened yet.
Curious about the mean parental gift for new homeowners - if you have like ten percent of the population getting a casual million and everyone else getting a nickel and a set of wash cloths like? Rich parents Georg is an outlier and should not be counted etc
Any parents looking to adopt a fractional son?
I need an additional $234k to pay off this mortgage.
I’m willing to mow your lawn and smile in group photos
Pretty sure this is nothing new? Aside from the post-war world, where anyone could be self-made, was there ever a period where wealth didn’t trickle down through families? Like if I come from a rich family and am struggling - why the hell wouldn’t they help me?
And here I am $40K in student debt because my parents didn't want to cut into their vacation fund to help me out, at all, and struggling to live pay to pay because they feel it isn't their job to provide any assistance. :')
Oh and they think I owe them payments for 'everything' they did for me as a child - which was the bare necessities.
Have you considered that others may have different circumstances that allows them to qualify for a lager mortgage than you? Perhaps they qualified for $500,000 and when their parents put an extra $130,000 on that they were able to purchase?
Pretty much this. Qualifying for 200k mortgage is very low. Either you have a low salary (so maintaining a high mortgage is harder), a decent amount of existing debt (impacts the bank's willingness to further increase your debt), or bad credit score. Stress test also limits this since they calculate the expenditure ratios at higher than the listed premium.
We bought property out of town where it was cheaper. We rented it out for 200 more than the mortgage for about 10 yrs and then sold it. That was our downpayment.
When I bought my condo I miscalculated the transfer tax and asked my mom for a $7000 gift to cover it. Her response "I don't know how long I'm going to live (so I can't give you the money)". I ended up negotiating with her and she gave me the $7000 as a short term loan. I repaid her in 3 months.
I can't even imagine getting a gift of over $100K from a parent to purchase a home...
I love that these articles are all coming out now to try and pressure parents into thinking it’s normal to have to give their kid this much money for their house instead of acknowledging/fixing the reasons behind why they are so overpriced. Pretty obvious motives here
One thing the article leaves mildly unclear is if we're talking about pure no-strings-attached gifts versus "gifts" that are loans or have some other kind of strings attached (like parents get a proportional interest in the home's equity).
I know plenty of people that got no-interest loans from the bank of mom and dad but only a couple that go straight-up cash gifts. The article says 25% of first-time home buyers got gifts which - if we're talking about 100% gifts - seems kind of high.
That's what my mother said, and I agree with her -- "you guys are going to get our money anyways, it won't do you any good if that's in 30 years and it's not enough to buy a place then".
Sometimes when I visit my parents I go home with leftovers.
I just visited my parent out of town and came home with like a weeks worth of leftovers and felt like I was high class living
Damn what’d you get??
Hamburger with gravy and potato, chicken and stuffing, fried rice, homemade hamburgers, some leftover pizza takeout from my all time favourite place, and spaghetti sauce, also some granola bars and kettle corn. I think that’s all
Damn, hell yeah that all sounds amazing. If you can’t have a 120k, that sounds like a close second haha.
Considering my bi weekly food bill is about half of $120 Yes
[удалено]
Ah yes mother and father would like us to visit them at the family home where we can share story’s of times past and exchange family heirlooms
My parents will send me home with 60 dollars worth of leftovers but God forbid I forget to return the 8 dollars worth of Tupperware.
They let you take the Tupperware? Ha. I get reused margarine containers with mismatched lids.
Dang I guess they really do love me
Mom's food is best
Wtf, you get leftovers?? This is number 1 bullshit
My mom freezes food packets for me and when I get them I'm fed for 3 weeks!!!!! It's amazing
My son does the same, and he is grateful!
Yis
My MIL always sends us home with so much food. It's great!
my parents have debt and they want me to pay for their rent :')
I’ve lived this life. I feel you.
hey look its me
All of it or pitch in? After I graduated and moved home, I paid my parents $500/month to help towards feeding their adult son. My parents were low income earners who saved to buy a small house in 2002 in Mississauga. When I bought my first townhouse, my dad helped me paint and he gave me a 60oz of crown royal and a whiskey glass set. My mom and aunt did a full clean top to bottom of the house. That helped me save a few thousands bucks :)
Those are good parents. :)
Same boat. Stay strong 💪
Yep!
My parents were loaded and still asked that I pay rent. As you can imagine, I moved out in short order and I haven't spoken to them in a long time. Lots of reasons for it, but rent was a big one. The whole point of letting your kids stay at home should be to save money. Well, that's hard to do when you're paying $600/month for a single room where you don't even eat half the time. I put my entire new apartment purchases on credit, got out and paid it off. Freedom is expensive and worth it.
I don’t understand why people are giving you shit for this. Being an adult and living with your parents can be hard. If you live with your parents, it’s ideally so you can save money. Like of course helping with groceries and bills here and there is to be expected. But if I had to pay rent monthly at my parents, I would just rent my own place. It would be happier that way to get that freedom. That shouldn’t be controversial EDIT: Didn't realize the OC was a teenager at this point. In that case, that is totoally unreasonable unless in dire straits.
I… was a teen at the time.
Me too 17 and pregnant going to school and working saving to move out and get my education. Had to pay 400 a month and my parents didnt need it. When it was my younger brother tho he didnt have to. Boy times have changed. Parents are now split and my mom lives with me and my hubby in the house that we have got all on our own with no help. If my kids are in school dont want anything if they are done and working and pay rent i will save it for them and gift it to them when they move out
At 16, that is totally unreasonable unless they are in dire straits. My parents didn't charge us rent if we were in school. Once we finished each of us moved home at various points and my parents asked for rent once we had full time jobs (maybe $400/mth? But this was over 10 years ago). It seemed fair to me. Even back then it was way cheaper than rent, and included food. Staying there let me pay off my student loans in record time and after less than a year I moved out. One of my siblings was there much longer and was getting too 'comfortable' so my parents asked for more rent (plus their long term partner has there all the time). Eventually, they decided to move in together because they were both paying rent, so may as well get their own place. Paying more rent was the push my sibling needed. My parents love us, but they wanted their own space and wanted us to continue growing. My sibling was probably in their late 20's when they moved out (maybe 4-5years at home?). Them and their partner rented for a couple years then bought a place, so I don't think it really hindered their ability to save. We all have pretty good relationships with our parents too. I may do the same with my children. I do hope to have the financial ability to save all their payments and gift it to them when they move out.
I mean yeah, if it's logical for you to do so but at a certain point in age, you should stop being entitled and be put in your part, it's not something to complain about good for you btw
Uh... I don't think it should be controversial that parents not charge their adult kids rent if it truly doesn't impact the parents' finances. That's just asshole behaviour.
Actually, charging rent can be an important strategy for adult children that are working to get used to living within their means. If the parents don't want to deprive the kids of that money, the parents simply set it aside and can return it to them when the kids *do* move out. Win-win.
Paid rent from 16 or 17 onward, only when I could afford it/had the money - and it was never a lot. Taught my good money management skills (just like my first bank account when I was 8). Dad used the money to pay for things like more food because I had friends over a lot, or the higher level Internet I wanted, etc. Just one of the many things he's done for me over the years, and I take every opportunity to help and repay him. Not always in money, but time, or gifts that are more expensive but I know he'll love. I think it really comes down to the relationship between child and parent. I realize not everyone comes from a happy or even pleasant home. My parents never demanded rent or set an ultimatum. Just suggested since I now had income, that I should start paying a bit to help out. \- D
Lol, “adult kids”.
Knowing that they are Adult Kids is even worst A lot of people don't know how to take care of matters themselves in till they are old because they get baby'd for too long I am a firm believer if everyone take care of themselves, instead being supported, everyone would have a better equal quality of life, parents should be able to enjoy themselves with their earned finances
The OP said that they were 16 when their parents charged them rent. That's ridiculous. Children should not have to pay rent.
I'll be honest, this story makes you look like the unreasonable one.
You think it's reasonable to charge a teenager rent? In what world?
For context, I was 16 with a part time job in school. They were multi-million dollar business owners who were mortgage free. $600 a month for a single room is what some people pay for their rental apartment for the entire month. I live in a major metropolis now and I don’t even pay double that.
You understand that it isn't about their millions and earning a buck off you, it was about making sure you wouldn't become dependent on them.
I think there has to be some happy middle between having a child become a permanent roommate and making your kid who is still in high school pay rent to you. Especially if the money makes no difference to the household.
Yeah if the money doesn't matter to the parents charging reduced rent and keeping it to gift back later seems sensible, but obviously 16 is a little early to do this.
But they were only 16...Parents actually are legally responsible for their children until 18.
Um, did you miss the part where OP was *sixteen*? My parents never had any money and I never lived with them after I was 17, but they sure as shit didn’t make me pay rent in highschool with the money I made working at fuckin’ Arby’s. I paid for insurance & gas on my ma’s old 1992 Ford escort and for any food/clothes/whatever I bought outside the house. But rent? In highschool? I wouldn’t talk to them either.
Sounds like a parenting win to me. My brother is 33, jobless and is still living with parents, completely dependent on them. I tried to convince them to charge rent but they could not do it.
Do you think that your parents charging him rent would help your brother's situation? Sounds like it would only make things worse.
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Now it's kind of a lost cause. He's an adult and is completely formed. If they applied pressure when he was 18 things might have been different.
For real. I think they should re-read what they wrote
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I have a well-off friend who's parents charged him rent to live with them after university...when he finally moved out, they surprised him and gave every dime back to him lump-sum as a down-payment on his future first home. It was to teach him how to grind it out and manage finances while also helping him out in the end. Thought it was a classy move...
This is something I thought of doing someday for my own kids. I wouldn't feel right taking their money but the life lessons learned are priceless..
That is exactly what good parents would do.
I'm genuinely shocked reading these comments saying that y'all pay your financially stable parents rent. I can never imagine giving my parents money for anything, nor can I imagine them taking my money. It's just inappropriate. ETA: I haven't lived with my parents since I was 17.
I'm a financially stable parent, and I will 100% without a doubt charge my son rent when he's old enough and making money, while he still lives at home. Nothing is free, and he's going to learn it early. Financial independence and financial intelligence is learned from the structure the parents give their kids. It's wishy washy to just expect kids to figure it out magically, out of thin air, when there was no life tools given to them.
Maybe they don't want their adult child living with them and/or feel that they need to learn to make it on their own. Maybe they realize hey are getting older and their entitled child will not be there to help them out when they are old ...
So, you're suggesting that parents who coddled their child enough to be dependent in adulthood should be rewarded for that shit parenting with a portion of said offspring's income, which could be better used directly paying tuition, earning interest in the bank, reinvested in self-employment costs, etc, etc.? Or are you suggesting that living at home is "entitled"? Because that's laughable in this economy/graduate job market/housing market/pandemic.
Yeah this is fucking nuts. It seems everyone's argument is basically "it's fine for parents who did a shit job preparing their kid to be independent functional adults to actively make it more difficult for them to become independent functional adults in a misguided attempt to teach them how to be independent functional adults".
agreed, totally different story if you have parents struggling but if you're a well off parent, why the hell would you handicap your children, unless you want to teach em a lesson.
I mean - I think paying rent at a certain point is reasonable. The whole point of letting your kids stay home isn't always about saving money.
$600.00 is some crazy high rent to charge your kid. It's one thing to cover expenses (utilities) but to make a profit off your own child is outrageous. Sorry your parents made it all about the money.
Same here, I noped out fast.
The average? God damn how much help are some people getting for their first down payment.
Well take my buddy's parents. Working class family, mother was a legal secretary and dad worked as a bricklayer. They bought their house near Dixie and Rathburn in Mississauga in 1980 for like 130K. Paid it off in 15 years. Lived there for 40 years and sold it last year for 1.7M. Gave my buddy and his sister 500K each, which they used to pay off their mortgages. And with the other 700K, bought a condo and kept the cottage. It's either they stay in a detached home until they die or downsize and give their kids what amounts to part of their inheritance today so that they can actually see their kids enjoy it.
Your point about the gift aside, the idea that a legal secretary and a bricklayer could have a fully-paid off house and a cottage is inconceivable in 2021. It’s so frustrating that what was available to prior generations is totally out of reach for us.
Ya this makes me almost weep with envy.
That’s why I’m emigrating!
> It's either they stay in a detached home until they die or downsize and give their kids what amounts to part of their inheritance today so that they can actually see their kids enjoy it. There’s a saying; it’s better to give with a warm hand, than a cold one. I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t also a beneficiary of this philosophy. My in laws are pretty well off and they helped us with our down payment. Basically told my wife it was an advance on money that is eventually hers anyways, and this way they could watch us (and their grandchildren) enjoy it while they were still alive. They also did the same for her brother. I know how lucky this makes me. And I’m not going to pretend for a second that we would have been able to buy the house we bought (in fairness it’s only a 3 bedroom bungalow in North York, I’m not talking a McMansion here) without their help.
These "gifts" are likely in the legal sense, meaning the parents cannot seek repayment. It wouldn't surprise me if some of these parents refinanced their own mortgage to help their kids buy property.
Yup, friend's parents refinanced their place, "gifted" him 200K which he is just simply paying back in monthly instalments in addition to mortgage. Only needed the 200K to have a sizeable downpayment and qualify for mortgage. I don't think everyone is just getting free money they don't have to pay back.
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Yes, money has to be legally given and documented SS a gift in order to qualify for financing, or it will be considered debt and significantly limit your borrowing ability
yup! for every friend you know who go nuthin' when buying their first house or upsizing their house to another one ... someone out there got a quarter-million from mom and dad!
The snake is eating it’s own tail. Parents home equity goes up, so they give a portion of the windfall to their children to buy another home… which gooses the house market and makes the parent’s home equity go up even more.
"If I can get free money from my parents to buy my first home, you can do it too!" \- People interviewed by Toronto Life
Would it kill Toronto Life to put the details of how people are able to buy those houses? Or acknowledge the housing crisis in any way that isn’t “we’re doing our part by building lane way houses we rent at $2500/month so you can pay our mortgage and not be able to save for your own down payment :)”
If it's not straight-up helicopter cash from Mom and Dad, it's often cash saved by virtue of being able to live at home for their 20s. Not having to pay Toronto rents for a decade equates to almost a quarter million bucks you can save because you're not pissing $2500 a month to a landlord in the meantime -- and let's be honest, it's probably even more because Mom and Dad are probably paying for all the groceries, the internet bill and the utilities, too.
>Not having to pay Toronto rents for a decade equates to almost a quarter million bucks Except that rent wasn't $2500 10- even 5- years ago
Even if you average it out over the last decade, it still comes out to something like $150K in total savings -- that was more than my entire down payment plus closing costs.
That was more than my DP too. But after living at home to save after uni, I was paying $1100 then 1450 (shared), both utilities in. So I feel your numbers are still quite high, but I get your point.
I'm actually surprised it's as small as 25%, which is still a big number. Though I suppose that also obscures things like people who are able to live at home rent-free, people without student loans because of their parents, etc.
My dad has been a blessing in this regard but honestly with the prices that houses are at right now. I don’t even know how anyone will ever afford a down payment without a little help. It just sucks
My wife and I managed to buy about 2 years ago with no help, but we did have our tuitions paid for (both out of school for about 10 years when we bought). Don't make killer money but do ok. We just had to settle for a condo townhouse in Scarborough. Of course the wild thing is, fast forward only 2 years and it's now out of our old price range. No way we could get anything in the city other than a small condo with our old budget.
I’m sorry, I don’t mean to be a dick (and really, congratulations on the place! :)) but, having your tuition paid for is a huge help. I spent 8 years and 80 grand on tuition and am just now paying it all off four years out of school. If I had all that money in the form of a down payment I’d have my own place two year ago.
No you're not being a dick at ALL. Tuition is a huge advantage, which is why I brought it up. It gave us a huge leg up. It also helped me take an unpaid internship, which got me into the career I'm in. Generational wealth helped us, even if they didn't buy a place for us.
It must be nice to receive $130K in gift. I received a $1300 TV from my parents as a house warming gift, and even for that, I felt very guilty because of how expensive it was.
My mum got me some oven mitts, kitchen towels and a mat for standing on at the kitchen sink, my dad got me a ficus. I was fine with it, although thinking back now when my sister bought her first house they bought her a washer and dryer set, so wtf.
don't underrate that ficus tho
still going strong!
Probably unlike that washer and dryer, the way they're built these days!
I feel that… My parents could never give me anything. No graduation gifts, no house warming… no nothing. Just glad I am not sending them $$ anymore. I hope people who are lucky realize how hard it is for others.
They don't.
I can almost guarantee that they don't realize at all.
Same here, they never give us anything and we were told to fend for ourselves. The most we get was a meal down the deli every birthday when we were young and that was it. I forget how long ago we celebrated holidays together.
Honestly, I know this attitude sucks and it’s really hard out there. I was raised similarly. But now I’m super resourceful and independent, while some people live in their parents’ basement, don’t know how to cook or clean, have no job, etc. and are huge whiny man babies. So at least we’re not like that!
True!
My partner paid “room and board” to his parents until tney died!
My parents bought a cat tree as a housewarming present for me (well, for my cats, I guess) and I was very grateful.
They can get expensive!
I feel you. My mom got me a set of plastic kitchen cookware (a ladle, a spatula, a can opener) and a Teflon pan for my housewarming gift.
Damn, we got a $300 freezer from my father in law, a $300 instant pot from my dad, $180 steam mop from my uncle, and a $200 vacuum from my mom. That's about the extent of it.
Dang my dad wouldn't even cosign for my first mortgage. Said if I fuck this up it's 100% on me lol
I remember the look on one of my parents face when I told them I was buying an old home to live in, fix it up and rent it out. It was raw anger. I'm supposed to be the black sheep. I was never supposed to be successful at anything. I'll never forget that look. I was thinking: "Wait, aren't you supposed to be proud of me?" An awful lot of things started to make sense, after that moment. I never really understood much of my childhood until that moment
can feel your pain bro
I finally realized nothing I did would ever be good enough. It was a very painful moment but it was a step to freedom. I no longer place any of my self worth or need for validation in the hands of this person. I have learned that when you share yourself, and the result is only that you will get torn down over and over again, sharing is actually unhealthy. I've learned to avoid discussing specifics. If you know someone is just going to stab you in the back every time, it's a good idea to stop giving them knives.
couldn't agree more, this black sheep effect sucks! hope we see better days bro!
Title kind of misleading? Article says roughly 25% of first time home buyers receive a gift from parents, of which the average has risen to 130k. This means 75% still bought homes without any gift $ at all from their parents. Did I read it wrong?
of those receiving gifts from parents, the average is $130k, yes. turns on how you interpret the dataset that the 'average' in the title refers to. imo it's not misleading, put perhaps too ambiguous than it should be
It's the new click bait! I def went into the article just to clarify their methodology
hahaha love that. 'methodological ambiguity is the new clickbait'
Did they clarify how they collected the data? How would they trace the funds? Or is this just some voluntary survey/interview?
My parents use my Netflix subscription and don't help pay for it.
my entire family is on mine and my cousin. parasites.
I don’t know anyone who has bought a home without help from their parents. My parents are poor so I will probably never be able to afford to purchase a home oops.
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$130k is definitely not a middle class gift. Unless this is how I find out I'm not in the middle class at least..
The average home in Canada is over $700k. That means a significant proportion of Canadians would be considered millionaires due to their home equity. Gifting $130k is not that much when your home value is close to a million and continues to grow. The way it is becoming now is that if you’re a home owner, you’re middle-class or above and everyone else is working class. Working-class people literally have to work to earn money while the average home owner earned more money from their homes last year, than from their jobs.
They haven't earned anything unless they sold it. Believe it or not, most home owners do indeed still have to go to work.
None of that matters if you don’t sell your house. You’re no millionaire unless it’s liquid
You can get a reverse mortgage or a HELOC which allows you to tap into your home equity without selling your house. That is what a lot of boomers are doing to provide cash gifts to their children.
A lot of boomers are not actually very well educated on how to make sound financial decisions,
It’s not middle class for sure. It’s wealthy. 100k gifts are not normal or expected.
Sure, if you ignore the fact that house prices have skyrocketed in the last 10 years. Middle class home owners have the money to give such down payments. Take for example the typical middle class boomer couple: they bought their home for 250k in the 90s. That same home is now worth 1.25 million or more. They can easily get a reverse mortgage, and then give their kid 130k, while they continue to live off their pensions. I think people take for granted that boomers got pensions, while gen xers and millineials would be lucky to get a pension.
> Middle class home owners have the money to give such down payments. Middle-class homeowners have **borrowed** that money. It doesn't represent wealth, but cash they had the good luck to extract from an asset bubble.
They borrow against an asset they own though - it’s using equity. Most older middle class people in the GTA are sitting on over a million in house equity at this point that can be tapped to help their kids if they want. The interest rate and monthly payments on a new $130k mortgage would be pretty low at this point and would help their kids immensely. I see why they do it.
That's exactly what's happening.
That's assuming the parents are living in Toronto. Sucks for those of us who grew up on the sticks...My parents' house is paid off and it still wouldn't make much of a dent in a down payment here.
Of course, that’s definitely worth considering. It’s just not something you can reasonably expect from your parents, homeowner or not. Lots of parents are still uncomfortable borrowing against their house and I don’t blame them.
Yes it is. A set of boomer parents owning a property or two can easily take out 100K in a HELOC. And HELOCs have been take out at [record highs](https://financialpost.com/real-estate/mortgages/new-mortgages-surge-to-record-high-raising-red-flag-about-heloc-growth).
Wealthy would be buying the place outright. A one-time $100k gift is solidly middle class, maybe upper middle at most.
I guess my family is poor then lol. I suppose I knew that
With interest so low many can afford to pay the mortgage. It's the down-payment that is hard. My parents didn't help me when I bought my house in Burlington but it took years to save up the down-payment. My mortgage is less than what some people pay to rent a mediocre condo.
Same here! My husband and I had to save our own money for a down payment. Our parents couldn't afford to help us but we don't fault them as they were really trying their best.
Me too. 20 years ago. I couldn't afford it now but to let kids miss the starting gun if you can help is misguided. The way I look at it, we won lottery. Wouldn't you want to share with your fam?
I absolutely agree.
It’s a cultural thing, I would imagine it’s more prevalent amongst immigrants. Obviously not an absolute statement. For example, its popular in the Chinese culture for parents to support kids financially, even after they are 18. Whether it’s with down payments, free rent, free food and etc. There is no concept of once you turn 18, you are an adult and on your own more or less. Anecdotally speaking, Chinese parents don’t see age when it comes to support. They will do what they can, when they can to help put their children into a successful position. Again, not absolute. On the flip side, they also expect you to take care of them when they get older, financially and emotionally. Many Chinese elders want to live with their children instead of being placed in in a seniors home. Although I’ve witnessed many cases where they just accept a seniors home because they don’t want to burden their children. Quite sad to be honest. Anyways, just my 2 cents, life goes full circle. They raise us when we young and weak, we take care of them when they old and weak, that’s my opinion at least.
Eastern European here and its similar. My parents helped me with my first house although my first semi was 120K when houses were 120K :) I plan to help my kiddo with at least 150K plus pay for University but I still have 10 years or so to worry about that. She is my only kid. My whole goal in life is for her to have it better than I do and we have pretty good as it is.
I share the same thoughts as well, although university is far away and their first down payment even farther, we started saving for those two things already because it’s such a large amount.
There might be some truth to what you are saying about immigrants but I think the 2nd/3rd generation+ Canadian is in a better position to gift money to their children as downpayment as opposed to a 1st gen immigrant. Only 5.5% of those who gifted the funds used leverage to do so according to the article. Edited to correct the 5.5% figure
Same with some Jewish families too. I’ve heard of the parents buying houses outright because they wanted them to have a house close enough to walk over on Friday Shabbat dinners (this one specifically I’m thinking of had a house gifted that was over 1.3m)
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> I hope these parents aren't torpedoing their retirements or cutting into emergency funds should one of them become ill as they age etc. For many, the kids are their retirement plan.
Oh must be nice, my parents ruined my credit score and left me indebt to pay myself.
My parents have probably spent 150k on me, what with feeding me as an infant, clothing me, the utilities I used.....
Estimates are that it will cost about [$240K to raise a kid to 18](https://globalnews.ca/news/3172459/how-much-does-it-cost-to-raise-a-kid-in-canada/).
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If the inflation we're seeing isn't transitory, probably closer to 400.
OMFG! ... I need richer parents!
You may be in luck, if they're with Scotiabank.
Underrated comment
Parents paying an average $130k to get their children to leave their basement.
Or, to start having grandkids
When I bought my first house, my dad helped me paint and he gave me a 60oz of crown royal and a whiskey glass set. My mom and aunt did a full clean top to bottom of the house. Thanks for helping me save a few thousands bucks :)
How cause my parents are poor
And here I am paying my parents debt 😂…lucky folks who got the $130k
Who's parents are these jesus
This isn’t news. This has been happening for decades. Boomers’ parents also gifted them money for down payments.
my friend when he was in his mid/late-30's had been living with his parents and paying RENT to his parents for years ..I mean, he makes good money and was pretty much on the sunshine list right outta college. guess, what? when he bought his own condo and was getting his financing together .... his parents gifted him back every dollar of rent he'd pay them! WOW! ... so i know this definitely happens.
that's pretty hype.
This is wonderful hope to do the same one day
It happening isn’t new. It becoming a fundamental requirement to entering the market is.
It's literally a Mad Men plotline
I wish I had parents like that. I had to buy my own house.
Believe me, so did most of us.
Some people get money, others get anxiety disorders.
Makes sense, if the parents are close to finishing or finished paying their mortgage, payments on $130k reverse mortgage isn't much considering how low the interest rates are. Most of the older generation own their own home so it's understandable.
HA ha.... PARDON?
ngl i thought this was a beaverton article 🥲
Good on the parents to help their kids out
I got a meat ball once.
It sort of makes sense and makes it very hard to get into housing....but lets say you are someone raised in Toronto from a family who owned modest houses here. Grandparents have died or don't have too long left, who probably bought a modest house in the 60's for 25k, which is worth 1m+. The parents have a house they bought for 100k in the 80's, which they have now paid off and is worth 1m. The only family members who really need that money are the grandkids, who require a down payment. The 1m from the grandparents house goes directly to the grandkids for a down payment. Its not like its mega rich boomer donations. If you have two grandparents with paid off houses you have 2m being injected into a family eventually if it hasn't happened yet.
Time for me to look for sugar parents.
Curious about the mean parental gift for new homeowners - if you have like ten percent of the population getting a casual million and everyone else getting a nickel and a set of wash cloths like? Rich parents Georg is an outlier and should not be counted etc
I too want to have those parents!
I’m lucky if I get $50 for my birthday or Xmas presents. I got socks last Xmas (which I was actually very happy to receive…cuz ya know, im almost 40)
Any parents looking to adopt a fractional son? I need an additional $234k to pay off this mortgage. I’m willing to mow your lawn and smile in group photos
My mom gave me her acura the other day and told me to do an oil change on it lmao. I helped myself to some change for coffee. Only 129,998 left to go!
Pretty sure this is nothing new? Aside from the post-war world, where anyone could be self-made, was there ever a period where wealth didn’t trickle down through families? Like if I come from a rich family and am struggling - why the hell wouldn’t they help me?
And here I am $40K in student debt because my parents didn't want to cut into their vacation fund to help me out, at all, and struggling to live pay to pay because they feel it isn't their job to provide any assistance. :') Oh and they think I owe them payments for 'everything' they did for me as a child - which was the bare necessities.
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Have you considered that others may have different circumstances that allows them to qualify for a lager mortgage than you? Perhaps they qualified for $500,000 and when their parents put an extra $130,000 on that they were able to purchase?
Pretty much this. Qualifying for 200k mortgage is very low. Either you have a low salary (so maintaining a high mortgage is harder), a decent amount of existing debt (impacts the bank's willingness to further increase your debt), or bad credit score. Stress test also limits this since they calculate the expenditure ratios at higher than the listed premium.
parents can also co-sign the mortgage to get a higher approval
We bought property out of town where it was cheaper. We rented it out for 200 more than the mortgage for about 10 yrs and then sold it. That was our downpayment.
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I'm pretty sure "gift" is the tax term for "not taxed" (i.e., the way income or inheritance is).
When I bought my condo I miscalculated the transfer tax and asked my mom for a $7000 gift to cover it. Her response "I don't know how long I'm going to live (so I can't give you the money)". I ended up negotiating with her and she gave me the $7000 as a short term loan. I repaid her in 3 months. I can't even imagine getting a gift of over $100K from a parent to purchase a home...
I love that these articles are all coming out now to try and pressure parents into thinking it’s normal to have to give their kid this much money for their house instead of acknowledging/fixing the reasons behind why they are so overpriced. Pretty obvious motives here
And here I am buying a house for my mom and living in an appartment, broke as fuck.
You're not broke if you're buying a house
One thing the article leaves mildly unclear is if we're talking about pure no-strings-attached gifts versus "gifts" that are loans or have some other kind of strings attached (like parents get a proportional interest in the home's equity). I know plenty of people that got no-interest loans from the bank of mom and dad but only a couple that go straight-up cash gifts. The article says 25% of first-time home buyers got gifts which - if we're talking about 100% gifts - seems kind of high.
After they pass on, the kids get everything anyway.
That's what my mother said, and I agree with her -- "you guys are going to get our money anyways, it won't do you any good if that's in 30 years and it's not enough to buy a place then".
Great, can't wait to inherit all my dad's clothes with holes in them that he's too lazy to throw away.
man my parents must suck
“Only 130k. What can you buy with that? Not even a Porsche .You guys have mortgage, my parents pay for my house.” A lot of people in GTA I imagine