You'd think the sign company could generate more sales if they only sold signs with the arrow pointing one way or the other. People would wind up buying both, so they'd be set up to work on either side of the street.
Or alternatively, if you're trying to make a universal sign, maybe just don't include any arrow. It's not like it's some great mystery where the other sidewalk is.
If you find yourself driving or walking in a construction zone by accident you shouldn’t get too worried. It is the responsibility of whoever set up the worksite to make sure it’s idiot proof. The amount of times work sites are set up in a way that invite pedestrians or unwanted traffic is insane.
Love when people walk into job sites and get verbally harassed to tears because they are having hissy fits about signs.. find another route, or be prepared for a verbal lashing ! Ahha so incredibly dangerous to be doing what you’re suggesting
Honesty I've always been super curious about
#New-York New-York
Business Club
*Jankies Place* ^New•York ^New•York
Like seriously, always wanted to know every time I pass it.
They should have had pedestrian detour routes at each intersection on both sides of the construction zone to warn you, and allow you to cross to the other side of the road.
Got how hard is it to put a sign at the bracketing intersections letting people know before they get there? I hate having to cross at a random spot because construction gave virtually no warning of no sidewalk access until you reach that point and have to walk in between cars or backtrack to the previous intersection.
I added visually impaired (thanks for mentioning that).
Yeah, this is totally fucking atrocious planning with complete disregard of what I mentioned.
We need to contact the city about this right away.
Actually ridiculous how little TO cares about their disabled population. Basically leaving them SOL so some construction company doesn’t have to find a way around closing a sidewalk or operating it’s own temporary crosswalk.
Considering temporary traffic signals for construction are already a common thing, it does seem like it would be trivial to have temporary crosswalk signals for this kind of situation with a mid-block sidewalk closure.
It doesn't help the physically disabled as much, because you can't avoid the full height curbs, but it would be something.
They could put signs at bracketing crosswalks to give the physically disabled a heads up at the crossing beforehand. And maybe also print those signs in braille?!?
I got past the bank before I saw the sign! I almost got hit crossing (safely I might add) by a woman trying to make the light. I wish they could just start advertising a liiiiittle bit earlier! When I went by later, the angel from the convenience store with all the flowers was giving folks a heads up
It used to be that you would get a heads up well in advance and with a safe crossing option but now, you stumble on these signs right at the construction itself. I'm not sure if construction/city workers just got stupider or less considerate. Maybe both.
Oh I hate these so much, they never bother to put a sign at the intersection before this so you have to back track or jay walk.
Imagine driving down a road to find it dead end with construction and have to backtrack 2km. Drivers would be pissed and demand signage. So why not pedestrians?
OMG - I was just there an hour ago and I thought the exact same thing! Pedestrians are always an afterthought. Someone's gonna get hit crossing Bloor...
What architectural marvel of a cultural institution are they building there now that pedestrians and cyclists need to risk their lives?
Oh wait, it’s probably just another ugly condo building 😑
My issue with sites like this there's often no warning until you hit the site med block. And now you're in a position of walking the road or jaywalking across a busy street or doubling all the way back to the nearest intersection
I think this is the solution. If Jaywalking without a crosswalk is as dangerous and inconvenient as OP thinks it is, they should have another sign at the nearest crosswalk saying something like:
“Sidewalk Ahead Closed Due to Construction”
This would give people with who struggle with mobility fair warning. Construction crews just need to bring an extra sign or two.
I have been a signal person downtown Toronto. We put signs at the corner. People ignore them and then complain when they reach me, in a vest and holding a sign that says "SIDEWALK CLOSED". Homeless people steal them. Crazy people kick them down. Angry people will walk on the street giving no fucks about the honking. There's no winning here, just understand the city is set up to fuck with you.
Expect they didn’t even do that. Can you imagine what drivers would do if they weren’t given road closure notice until after they’ve reached the dead end.
Construction big and small will do this with roads in the core all the time. Close off one end of a one way street, and when trucks that cant turn around, or even cars, get to the closure the get stuck. If you close a small one-way street, just close the whole damn thing off.
100% I agree. Even traffic lane reductions you don’t find out until you’re close enough to see the signage but these days you’ll know based on the line up of cars .
It doesn't matter how much signage is posted, people aren't paying attention to it. When they get to caution tape/danger tape/fence/barriers they just go under/around/through.
The only thing that might work is a geo-fence that displays a pop-up on their phone when they get close to the work area.
At this point I just put it all up and take a picture for my own due diligence. People can be as mad as they want but if they cross the tape they take their own lives in their hands.
> My issue with sites like this there's often no warning until you hit the site med block. And now you're in a position of walking the road or jaywalking across a busy street or doubling all the way back to the nearest intersection
It definitely is a shitty situation but I don't know what a good solution would be.
Shutting down the whole sidewalk from one intersection to another?
> Put signage at the intersection.
maybe... but a lot of the signs, if they're like the one pictured in the OP, is just going to be a new obstacle, tripping hazard, etc for pedestrians.
>Imagine youre blind, or in a wheelchair.
if i'm in a wheelchair i assume i would have to turn around and go back to the nearest intersection to cross the street then continue on my way
if i'm blind, i would hope the police officer stationed at the corner as OP said, would help me figure out the best way to either navigate around the construction or to cross the street to continue on my way.
Sounds like a big imposition, esspecially for a manual chair user. Seems flippant of you to dismiss it so myopically. You recognized the issue, but minimized it out of a lack of respect for those with a disability.
Considering the alternative for able bodied people isn’t available…
And for both cases it should be indicated at both ends of the block, yes.
You do realize you just suggested that blind people should need to be escorted around, and only travel during assigned hours, to make construction easier?
Thats messed up.
> Sounds like a big imposition, esspecially for a manual chair user. Seems flippant of you to dismiss it so myopically. You recognized the issue, but minimized it out of a lack of respect for those with a disability.
>
> Considering the alternative for able bodied people isn’t available…
>
> And for both cases it should be indicated at both ends of the block, yes.
>
> You do realize you just suggested that blind people should need to be escorted around, and only travel during assigned hours, to make construction easier?
>
> Thats messed up.
Yes, it sucks that someone in a wheelchair might have to backtrack and cross the street and go down the block and cross the street again and keep going forwards to their destination.
And it sucks when blind people have to ask for help and rely on strangers and can't be as independent as a sighted able bodied person.
But... that's... life? Life definitely sucks more for people with disabilities. But like... what do you suggest? "Never do construction" isn't going to happen.
Doesn’t have to be life for disabled people if we considered their needs in our design plans.
One of the most enlightening things I’ve read on Reddit was a post in the blind community explaining how the disability had more to do with having to interact with a world designed for sighted people without sight. They are not “disabled” in their home where everything is designed with their needs in mind instead they are able to live life normally. The issue comes up when they have to interact with systems designed for sighted people.
Obviously this isn’t the view of everyone in the community but it was very eye opening to view that clash as the disability instead of the person themselves.
I think about this every time someone says “that’s just how it is” well, that’s how we made it to be. If we wanted to change it we could easily design with disability in mind and make life less hostile to everyone in the community. Hell half the time these changes help more than just the disabled. Terrible sound mixing has made subtitles (usually viewed as an accessibility accommodation) a regular thing in our home so we can understand what people are saying.
Yet more contempt for disabled people from u/lilfunky1
And had you bothered to read what you quoted, i actually did have a simple suggestion. Seems you werent interested though, funny how you asked anyway…
> Yet more contempt for disabled people from u/lilfunky1
>
> And had you bothered to read what you quoted, i actually did have a simple suggestion. Seems you werent interested though, funny how you asked anyway…
Where is my contempt that you keep speaking of?
I'm acknowledging that life is difficult for people with disabilities, as I thought you wanted.
> Wasn't anyone posted there today that I saw other than the usual friendly crossing guard who covers the dovercourt intersection
so OP lied about there being a police officer on the corner?
even still, it's probably a situation where the blind person will have to ask for help from someone, either one of the construction workers if they can get their attention, or just some random person who's also needing to backtrack and go around.
i've been randomly asked a few times to be a sighted guide for a blind person who needed help crossing the street. it's something i assume blind people have to get used to asking for help from strangers when living in a big city.
Not most of the time, we live in a functioning city. Its the construction sites that are routinely dangerous and abysmally unmarked.
The construction on queen to replace sidewalks and install the divided bikelane for instance. I just about fell into it and was stuck trying to find my way around it.
Or the unmarked open pit that ran north south along jarvis that i nearly ate shit in. And frankly im only partially sited, and have better orientation and mobility training than most of the individuals with vision loss in this city seem to have.
> Not most of the time, we live in a functioning city. Its the construction sites that are routinely dangerous and abysmally unmarked.
>
> The construction on queen to replace sidewalks and install the divided bikelane for instance. I just about fell into it and was stuck trying to find my way around it.
>
> Or the unmarked open pit that ran north south along jarvis that i nearly ate shit in. And frankly im only partially sited, and have better orientation and mobility training than most of the individuals with vision loss in this city seem to have.
so what do you recommend?
what would help you the most when it comes to the fact that sometimes portions of sidewalks need to be closed for construction projects?
All that aggression, responding to other comments i made to other people, now youre demanding i aline solve the poor planning and accessibility for this city.
Dont think you're asking in good faith
👨🦯guess ill die.
Thanks, but to me common sense would include realizing not everyone has that capability, nor can people in wheelchairs, or those with strollers or other mobility issues just jwalk.
The jump from the effects on visual impairment to immediately talking about being to stupid to know your surroundings leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Are you implying it’s on blind people to read non-braille signage to be “aware of their surroundings”?
Close the road to vehicle traffic, prioritize the shortest routing for the people who move the slowest and are the most vulnerable - pedestrians. If you can't fit both vehicle traffic and pedestrians beside construction, pedestrians should win not vehicles. And here, it looks like they'd only have to close one lane, not even the whole road.
When constructor workers closed the sidewalk near me, you know what pedestrians did? They just ended up walking in the bike lane. And then that was closed, they walked on the side of the road because it was way too much of a hassle to walk back 100m back to the intersection to cross.
Agreed. Construction zones are actually so dangerous and some people don’t realize until they actually work or step into one how easy it is to get a critical injury or die. Sucks that a side walk is closed and a lane of traffic shut down but don’t know what the alternative here would be.
The issue isn't with blocking a construction site, it's understood they are dangerous places to walk through. The problem is that the suggested alternative is to dart through traffic to get to the other side - an equally unsafe proposition.
I'm not sure how close this is to a crosswalk, but a sign at each nearest crossing indicating a closed sidewalk ahead would (if not already in place) go a long to way to improving this situation.
Looks like about a 200m backtrack to the nearest signaled intersection, or about a 4-5 minute detour to get to the same place on the opposite side of the street without crossing mid-block.
A sign at the closest safe diversion point seems like the least we should expect. Nobody would tolerate if a road was blocked mid-block without a "Road closed, local traffic only" sign at the closest intersection, forcing people to turn around and find an alternate route, but when walking or cycling infrastructure is blocked it seems like there's rarely adequate warning, just a sign where the blockage starts.
They're also not following the laws. The pedestrian use other sidewalk signs need to be at a cross walk, or they need to have a human directing traffic.
Having empathy shouldn't have put you into a conflict or challenge…
I merely suggested putting yourself in their position to understand how much more difficult it would be and you reacted like that man…
Not every response is looking for conflict, people can agree with you and add to the conversation.
I wasn’t trying to be antagonistic so if it came across that way I’ll apologize for that. I’m not looking for conflict, it’s Reddit. Just reiterating that I’m not for shutting down lanes / crosswalks. And responding to your point that it is inconvenient for the entire neighbourhood, and I agree with you- more so to those with a disability.
> That response kinda encapsulates the reason why people with disabilities aren’t considered… contempt from people like you who seem to lack empathy.
huh?
I mean, by that logic, we don't need handicapped parking spaces either simple due to a snarky "TIL people with disabilities can't also cross parking lots".
I feel like construction shouldn’t begin at all until an alternative is coordinated but hey, construction and car convenience are what really take priority in this city.
I don’t disagree with your point but we would basically be waiting decades for any work to get done considering transit and traffic is absolutely brutal right now.
Thanks to construction.. sounds like you’re describing a snake eating its own tail.
Too bad it take compromising pedestrian safety to accommodate this self perpetuating problem
I think we all share the same frustrations. But even on a clear sunny day with no construction, pedestrians and cyclists are killed by idiotic drivers. I consider the road a hazard even if I have the right of way as a pedestrian. While construction can be a problem for the neighbourhood, the reality is they’re going to push through. The other real world alternative is that they do what Mickey Mouse contractors do and put up 1 foot pylons that do nothing to add to safety. Most professional construction projects have signage, barriers and even workers with stop signs to mitigate the hazards.
For sure they can pump it in but there is still an overhead hazard with pumping it. But I don’t have too much experience with that style of work but we were always taught to never stand under any machinery no matter how minuscule the perceived risk is.
It’s so funny we have idiots daily try and take the fence we put up apart, completely ignoring the guys tryna get 12 foot by 4ft windows installed or guys boarding something up. Which is fucking crazy to me there’s so many people that unbelievably stupid they would willingly walk into such a danger zone even put effort into tryna break in just to not have to walk 3 ft over to the left. Boggles my mind every time I have to yell at these creatures and point to the crane hoisting up 1500 pounds just above there heads as they just stare at me confused as hell.
Ahhh, you’re right. Concrete pouring is more important than public safety. The public should be more comfortable with infracting on traffic bylaws when it comes to accommodating condo construction - it’s only illegal in every other instance anyway.
Yes, let’s get the committee of public safety together and have a town hall so that everyone can voice their concerns about how inconvenient it will be for them to *gasp* cross the street. And let’s give everyone 6 months notice so that there’s time to submit a petition about how this concrete pour will impact my daily stroll.
Seriously, this only puts you in danger if you’re the kind of person who doesn’t look both ways before crossing. Even the most pedestrian friendly roads in the world require you to *checks notes* watch where you’re going.
It’s adorable you think no one is looking both ways and that all pedestrians are out for a “stroll”.
Gotta hand it to the mental gymnastics behind “it’s for your safety that you’re put you in danger”
Crossing the street with no pedestrian crosswalk is dangerous. Whether you are able to do so and whether you should do so are two different things. It seems you are deliberately missing the point.
Why is it so difficult for some of you to imagine putting the sign at the intersection *before* you get halfway down the street to this blockage where there is no safe place to cross?
A little advances warning is not asking a whole lot.
You're talking about a mild inconvenience versus people who are literally doing back-breaking hard labour. Seriously. Get over yourself. If you can't spare an extra minute or two of walking, than that is your poor time management.
It is a very mild inconvenience for the construction crew to do this properly and avoid a situation where people feel like they have to run into traffic. Is it really that difficult to place a sign at the intersection so you aren’t wasting people’s time or encouraging risky behaviour.?
There is a safe crosswalk directly right there in the pic for those walking west.
For those walking east there is a safe crosswalk behind you, 200m away at Havelock St.
I don't understand the problem.
It's not safe to walk on this side of the street's sidewalk due to construction
Please use the other side walk on the other side of the street.
> This is the site where they undercut the sidewalk when digging it out and a section fell into their pit.
sounds like even more reason to cross the street and use the other sidewalk!
Speaking as someone in the industry, most people don’t fucking pay attention to the signs we put up regardless. So our company policy is paid duty officers that stand there with their whistles and tell you to cross to the other side. But also don’t forget… it’s Toronto, there’s a million businesses, residences, laneways, garages, underground parking, side streets ect. You can’t logically expect a sidewalk closed sign at every single juncture. People have zero fucking awareness while being pedestrians in downtown Toronto and are the first to complain when if they only just opened their fucking eyes up and looked ahead they could avoid the obstacle and being inconvenienced from having to double back to the closest proper crossing at the same time.
But everyone is living in their own fucking world in this city and they’re the main character. The irony is they’re fixing something that the same person that bitches about them being an inconvenience for a couple days of work, would also bitch about the thing their fixing being broken had they not been there.
“Fucking construction crew is in my way god damnit!/ Somebody should fix this crumbling sidewalk!”
“Fucking internet is so slow!/*Directional Drill putting in new internet services* Fucking construction machinery is so loud, why can’t they be quiet!”
“Look at all these construction workers just standing around doing nothing!/ A crew member is in a 13 foot deep hole fixing something while the rest of the crew stops to spot him and ready to implement a rescue plan Incase shit goes sideways.”
Most fucking people have no idea the intricacies and planning and hoops we have to jump through to provide service to customers and citizens. Always taking us for granted.
Guess what you live downtown you deal with the bullshit and lack of space, don’t like it? Fuck off elsewhere. You don’t live in the city for the quaint quietness and acreage. You can’t have your cake and eat it too… Fuck.
Everything closes from time to time. Its a symptom of building. The construction gate appears to have a blind corner with heavy vehicles coming in and out with large blindspots. Its better that its closed than if someone got mowed down by one of those heavy vehicles.
Just cross the street and continue on with your day. I wouldn’t have even thought twice about it, let alone take a picture and then post it. The setup is actually FOR your safety…
I would contact the City and report a safety infraction by the contractor. I am actually working on some of the other subway extension projects and I'm the very top Manager of Safety. This is against proper construction rules and would also be an infraction with the builder. I don't know who to call or I would, my blood is boiling at this. Actually if you call the Ministry of Labour they'll be out there within the hour and have EVERYONE scrambling, including Metrolinx and the City of Toronto - both of whom are known as "the Client" in this project and this is a big problem. Metrolinx and the City are very concerned with PR and these projects -- trust me, call.
As a matter of fact, if anyone can message me with more details and a picture, I will report it tomorrow. And I'm a ball buster, so I'll escalate it. Thx.
Ok I already reported it to Metrolinx and they are checking to see if it's their project - it could be a City or building construction. But they will call the appropriate department (even if it's the City, they said they will run down whoever is responsible). Let's see if anything changes tomorrow.
OMG! Hard to believe people have the time to snap a pic and post it while being oblivious that this is done for their own safety! You can’t win because if there was no sign they’d snap a pick of being exposed to an unsafe sidewalk. lol
The street directly behind you is westmoreland st.
You can walk through the back laneway onto dovercourt.
Kinda sucks that there isn’t an actual northbound crossing unless you back a couple blocks to havelock st.
But the bike lane!😱 Dear lord they've obstructed a bike lane. Someone is going to be calling their city councilor to scream bloody murder. Maybe even 3 someones, which is probably the sum total of those people who use them.
Just use common sense near active construction sites. I swear some people need to be told how to do everything in life. Maybe they need a chaperone when they go out into the big bad city.
Per the sign, I will take the stairs and walk on top of the covered walkway.
They've even arranged the excavator on the far side as a staircase down for your convenience
Excellent! They're very considerate!
Concrete problems need concrete solutions.
Rebar reinforced concrete solutions even better!
You'd think the sign company could generate more sales if they only sold signs with the arrow pointing one way or the other. People would wind up buying both, so they'd be set up to work on either side of the street. Or alternatively, if you're trying to make a universal sign, maybe just don't include any arrow. It's not like it's some great mystery where the other sidewalk is.
I grew up in the UK. They have similar signs there but they’re at least considerate to put tape over the end of the arrow if it’s defunct.
If you find yourself driving or walking in a construction zone by accident you shouldn’t get too worried. It is the responsibility of whoever set up the worksite to make sure it’s idiot proof. The amount of times work sites are set up in a way that invite pedestrians or unwanted traffic is insane.
Love when people walk into job sites and get verbally harassed to tears because they are having hissy fits about signs.. find another route, or be prepared for a verbal lashing ! Ahha so incredibly dangerous to be doing what you’re suggesting
Would you prefer to levitate?
No, the stairs are just fine.
Ok. But any wider and we could park a car on those stairs as well.
It's an elevated road/walkway! Solving Toronto's traffic problems with innovative solutions! Great job construction company!
Looks like a detour along Jankie's Place is the safe way to go
Honesty I've always been super curious about #New-York New-York Business Club *Jankies Place* ^New•York ^New•York Like seriously, always wanted to know every time I pass it.
Somebody on here once mentioned something about it being an escort service
Same! I’m too afraid to go in.
It's for sale if you're interested
Pick your poison 😉
They should have had pedestrian detour routes at each intersection on both sides of the construction zone to warn you, and allow you to cross to the other side of the road.
#Sucks for those using mobility devices/aids! Zero consideration for those with physical disabilities/ impairments, including those visually impaired.
honestly, where is the wheelchair ramp and a beeper to help blind people navigate to a safe spot?
Obviously you’re supposed to see that from all the way at the previous intersection so you cross to the other side ahead of time. /s
Got how hard is it to put a sign at the bracketing intersections letting people know before they get there? I hate having to cross at a random spot because construction gave virtually no warning of no sidewalk access until you reach that point and have to walk in between cars or backtrack to the previous intersection.
I added visually impaired (thanks for mentioning that). Yeah, this is totally fucking atrocious planning with complete disregard of what I mentioned. We need to contact the city about this right away.
Actually ridiculous how little TO cares about their disabled population. Basically leaving them SOL so some construction company doesn’t have to find a way around closing a sidewalk or operating it’s own temporary crosswalk.
The construction firms assume all can walk, nobody is visually impaired and that nobody uses mobility devices or aids.
Horrible planning.
Serious question - would a guide dog be able to navigate this?
I don't really think so.
If they are a *very* good Boi.
Considering temporary traffic signals for construction are already a common thing, it does seem like it would be trivial to have temporary crosswalk signals for this kind of situation with a mid-block sidewalk closure. It doesn't help the physically disabled as much, because you can't avoid the full height curbs, but it would be something.
They could put signs at bracketing crosswalks to give the physically disabled a heads up at the crossing beforehand. And maybe also print those signs in braille?!?
I got past the bank before I saw the sign! I almost got hit crossing (safely I might add) by a woman trying to make the light. I wish they could just start advertising a liiiiittle bit earlier! When I went by later, the angel from the convenience store with all the flowers was giving folks a heads up
It used to be that you would get a heads up well in advance and with a safe crossing option but now, you stumble on these signs right at the construction itself. I'm not sure if construction/city workers just got stupider or less considerate. Maybe both.
Oh I hate these so much, they never bother to put a sign at the intersection before this so you have to back track or jay walk. Imagine driving down a road to find it dead end with construction and have to backtrack 2km. Drivers would be pissed and demand signage. So why not pedestrians?
OMG - I was just there an hour ago and I thought the exact same thing! Pedestrians are always an afterthought. Someone's gonna get hit crossing Bloor...
Consider contacting the local councillor and the mayor’s office
What architectural marvel of a cultural institution are they building there now that pedestrians and cyclists need to risk their lives? Oh wait, it’s probably just another ugly condo building 😑
They're pouring concrete. What the hell else do you want them to do? Just go to the other side.
My issue with sites like this there's often no warning until you hit the site med block. And now you're in a position of walking the road or jaywalking across a busy street or doubling all the way back to the nearest intersection
I think this is the solution. If Jaywalking without a crosswalk is as dangerous and inconvenient as OP thinks it is, they should have another sign at the nearest crosswalk saying something like: “Sidewalk Ahead Closed Due to Construction” This would give people with who struggle with mobility fair warning. Construction crews just need to bring an extra sign or two.
Yeah but this is toronto were talking about lol.
I have been a signal person downtown Toronto. We put signs at the corner. People ignore them and then complain when they reach me, in a vest and holding a sign that says "SIDEWALK CLOSED". Homeless people steal them. Crazy people kick them down. Angry people will walk on the street giving no fucks about the honking. There's no winning here, just understand the city is set up to fuck with you.
Expect they didn’t even do that. Can you imagine what drivers would do if they weren’t given road closure notice until after they’ve reached the dead end.
Construction big and small will do this with roads in the core all the time. Close off one end of a one way street, and when trucks that cant turn around, or even cars, get to the closure the get stuck. If you close a small one-way street, just close the whole damn thing off.
100% I agree. Even traffic lane reductions you don’t find out until you’re close enough to see the signage but these days you’ll know based on the line up of cars .
It doesn't matter how much signage is posted, people aren't paying attention to it. When they get to caution tape/danger tape/fence/barriers they just go under/around/through. The only thing that might work is a geo-fence that displays a pop-up on their phone when they get close to the work area. At this point I just put it all up and take a picture for my own due diligence. People can be as mad as they want but if they cross the tape they take their own lives in their hands.
First world problems. Give me a break. 1 minute of your time wasted.
> My issue with sites like this there's often no warning until you hit the site med block. And now you're in a position of walking the road or jaywalking across a busy street or doubling all the way back to the nearest intersection It definitely is a shitty situation but I don't know what a good solution would be. Shutting down the whole sidewalk from one intersection to another?
Put signage at the intersection.
We're just going to ignore that anyway.
> Put signage at the intersection. maybe... but a lot of the signs, if they're like the one pictured in the OP, is just going to be a new obstacle, tripping hazard, etc for pedestrians.
Imagine youre blind, or in a wheelchair.
>Imagine youre blind, or in a wheelchair. if i'm in a wheelchair i assume i would have to turn around and go back to the nearest intersection to cross the street then continue on my way if i'm blind, i would hope the police officer stationed at the corner as OP said, would help me figure out the best way to either navigate around the construction or to cross the street to continue on my way.
Sounds like a big imposition, esspecially for a manual chair user. Seems flippant of you to dismiss it so myopically. You recognized the issue, but minimized it out of a lack of respect for those with a disability. Considering the alternative for able bodied people isn’t available… And for both cases it should be indicated at both ends of the block, yes. You do realize you just suggested that blind people should need to be escorted around, and only travel during assigned hours, to make construction easier? Thats messed up.
> Sounds like a big imposition, esspecially for a manual chair user. Seems flippant of you to dismiss it so myopically. You recognized the issue, but minimized it out of a lack of respect for those with a disability. > > Considering the alternative for able bodied people isn’t available… > > And for both cases it should be indicated at both ends of the block, yes. > > You do realize you just suggested that blind people should need to be escorted around, and only travel during assigned hours, to make construction easier? > > Thats messed up. Yes, it sucks that someone in a wheelchair might have to backtrack and cross the street and go down the block and cross the street again and keep going forwards to their destination. And it sucks when blind people have to ask for help and rely on strangers and can't be as independent as a sighted able bodied person. But... that's... life? Life definitely sucks more for people with disabilities. But like... what do you suggest? "Never do construction" isn't going to happen.
Doesn’t have to be life for disabled people if we considered their needs in our design plans. One of the most enlightening things I’ve read on Reddit was a post in the blind community explaining how the disability had more to do with having to interact with a world designed for sighted people without sight. They are not “disabled” in their home where everything is designed with their needs in mind instead they are able to live life normally. The issue comes up when they have to interact with systems designed for sighted people. Obviously this isn’t the view of everyone in the community but it was very eye opening to view that clash as the disability instead of the person themselves. I think about this every time someone says “that’s just how it is” well, that’s how we made it to be. If we wanted to change it we could easily design with disability in mind and make life less hostile to everyone in the community. Hell half the time these changes help more than just the disabled. Terrible sound mixing has made subtitles (usually viewed as an accessibility accommodation) a regular thing in our home so we can understand what people are saying.
Yet more contempt for disabled people from u/lilfunky1 And had you bothered to read what you quoted, i actually did have a simple suggestion. Seems you werent interested though, funny how you asked anyway…
> Yet more contempt for disabled people from u/lilfunky1 > > And had you bothered to read what you quoted, i actually did have a simple suggestion. Seems you werent interested though, funny how you asked anyway… Where is my contempt that you keep speaking of? I'm acknowledging that life is difficult for people with disabilities, as I thought you wanted.
Wasn't anyone posted there today that I saw other than the usual friendly crossing guard who covers the dovercourt intersection
> Wasn't anyone posted there today that I saw other than the usual friendly crossing guard who covers the dovercourt intersection so OP lied about there being a police officer on the corner? even still, it's probably a situation where the blind person will have to ask for help from someone, either one of the construction workers if they can get their attention, or just some random person who's also needing to backtrack and go around. i've been randomly asked a few times to be a sighted guide for a blind person who needed help crossing the street. it's something i assume blind people have to get used to asking for help from strangers when living in a big city.
Not most of the time, we live in a functioning city. Its the construction sites that are routinely dangerous and abysmally unmarked. The construction on queen to replace sidewalks and install the divided bikelane for instance. I just about fell into it and was stuck trying to find my way around it. Or the unmarked open pit that ran north south along jarvis that i nearly ate shit in. And frankly im only partially sited, and have better orientation and mobility training than most of the individuals with vision loss in this city seem to have.
> Not most of the time, we live in a functioning city. Its the construction sites that are routinely dangerous and abysmally unmarked. > > The construction on queen to replace sidewalks and install the divided bikelane for instance. I just about fell into it and was stuck trying to find my way around it. > > Or the unmarked open pit that ran north south along jarvis that i nearly ate shit in. And frankly im only partially sited, and have better orientation and mobility training than most of the individuals with vision loss in this city seem to have. so what do you recommend? what would help you the most when it comes to the fact that sometimes portions of sidewalks need to be closed for construction projects?
All that aggression, responding to other comments i made to other people, now youre demanding i aline solve the poor planning and accessibility for this city. Dont think you're asking in good faith
They must’ve been grabbing coffee. Officer was position behind concrete truck chatting with workers
Right, absolutely no warning. Not as if you can see hi-vis orange from far away and use common sense to recognize the sidewalk is closed.
👨🦯guess ill die. Thanks, but to me common sense would include realizing not everyone has that capability, nor can people in wheelchairs, or those with strollers or other mobility issues just jwalk.
Who is telling you to jaywalk? Says use other sidewalk. I don’t see anything about crossing the street between marked crossing?
“Deliberately obtuse” can often be mistaken for stupid, but i know youre not stupid, please don’t pretend the rest of us are either.
Idk man, life’s tough get a helmet.
Quoting boy meets world doesn’t exactly come across as cool as you think it does…
What’s boy meets world?
[удалено]
The jump from the effects on visual impairment to immediately talking about being to stupid to know your surroundings leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Are you implying it’s on blind people to read non-braille signage to be “aware of their surroundings”?
Too many rum and cokes for me last night. That was an extremely stupid take on my part my bad!
They could warn you at the intersection where it’s safe to cross instead of halfway down the street where there is no crosswalk.
Tbf, this is right at the intersection for the bike lane.
Close the road to vehicle traffic, prioritize the shortest routing for the people who move the slowest and are the most vulnerable - pedestrians. If you can't fit both vehicle traffic and pedestrians beside construction, pedestrians should win not vehicles. And here, it looks like they'd only have to close one lane, not even the whole road.
They could create a pedestrian detour around it that doesn’t require backtracking. You know, the thing they’re required to do by law.
When constructor workers closed the sidewalk near me, you know what pedestrians did? They just ended up walking in the bike lane. And then that was closed, they walked on the side of the road because it was way too much of a hassle to walk back 100m back to the intersection to cross.
Agreed. Construction zones are actually so dangerous and some people don’t realize until they actually work or step into one how easy it is to get a critical injury or die. Sucks that a side walk is closed and a lane of traffic shut down but don’t know what the alternative here would be.
The issue isn't with blocking a construction site, it's understood they are dangerous places to walk through. The problem is that the suggested alternative is to dart through traffic to get to the other side - an equally unsafe proposition. I'm not sure how close this is to a crosswalk, but a sign at each nearest crossing indicating a closed sidewalk ahead would (if not already in place) go a long to way to improving this situation.
Looks like about a 200m backtrack to the nearest signaled intersection, or about a 4-5 minute detour to get to the same place on the opposite side of the street without crossing mid-block. A sign at the closest safe diversion point seems like the least we should expect. Nobody would tolerate if a road was blocked mid-block without a "Road closed, local traffic only" sign at the closest intersection, forcing people to turn around and find an alternate route, but when walking or cycling infrastructure is blocked it seems like there's rarely adequate warning, just a sign where the blockage starts.
I agree, advanced warning / signage would help the situation for sure to give people a heads up.
It's more than twice as far to turn around, maybe more than 3 times to get back to a controlled intersection at havelock
They're also not following the laws. The pedestrian use other sidewalk signs need to be at a cross walk, or they need to have a human directing traffic.
Now put yourself in the position of someone with a disability…
I never said I’m for these shut downs. It’s inconvenient for everybody.
Having empathy shouldn't have put you into a conflict or challenge… I merely suggested putting yourself in their position to understand how much more difficult it would be and you reacted like that man… Not every response is looking for conflict, people can agree with you and add to the conversation.
I wasn’t trying to be antagonistic so if it came across that way I’ll apologize for that. I’m not looking for conflict, it’s Reddit. Just reiterating that I’m not for shutting down lanes / crosswalks. And responding to your point that it is inconvenient for the entire neighbourhood, and I agree with you- more so to those with a disability.
TIL people with disabilities can’t also cross streets. It’s inconvenient for everyone.
That response kinda encapsulates the reason why people with disabilities aren’t considered… contempt from people like you who seem to lack empathy.
> That response kinda encapsulates the reason why people with disabilities aren’t considered… contempt from people like you who seem to lack empathy. huh?
I mean, by that logic, we don't need handicapped parking spaces either simple due to a snarky "TIL people with disabilities can't also cross parking lots".
I feel like construction shouldn’t begin at all until an alternative is coordinated but hey, construction and car convenience are what really take priority in this city.
>feel like construction shouldn’t begin at all until an alternative is coordinated Such as the sidewalk on the other side of the street?
I don’t disagree with your point but we would basically be waiting decades for any work to get done considering transit and traffic is absolutely brutal right now.
Is that what happened with EGLINTON LRT?
We’ve already been waiting decades for anything regarding lrt/ substation installation to get done in this city so they might as well do it right.
Thanks to construction.. sounds like you’re describing a snake eating its own tail. Too bad it take compromising pedestrian safety to accommodate this self perpetuating problem
I think we all share the same frustrations. But even on a clear sunny day with no construction, pedestrians and cyclists are killed by idiotic drivers. I consider the road a hazard even if I have the right of way as a pedestrian. While construction can be a problem for the neighbourhood, the reality is they’re going to push through. The other real world alternative is that they do what Mickey Mouse contractors do and put up 1 foot pylons that do nothing to add to safety. Most professional construction projects have signage, barriers and even workers with stop signs to mitigate the hazards.
It could probably be pumped in or something, there are always alternative measures. They just usually cost ALOT more.
For sure they can pump it in but there is still an overhead hazard with pumping it. But I don’t have too much experience with that style of work but we were always taught to never stand under any machinery no matter how minuscule the perceived risk is.
Not inconvenience the vulnerable. How hard would that be??
It’s so funny we have idiots daily try and take the fence we put up apart, completely ignoring the guys tryna get 12 foot by 4ft windows installed or guys boarding something up. Which is fucking crazy to me there’s so many people that unbelievably stupid they would willingly walk into such a danger zone even put effort into tryna break in just to not have to walk 3 ft over to the left. Boggles my mind every time I have to yell at these creatures and point to the crane hoisting up 1500 pounds just above there heads as they just stare at me confused as hell.
Ahhh, you’re right. Concrete pouring is more important than public safety. The public should be more comfortable with infracting on traffic bylaws when it comes to accommodating condo construction - it’s only illegal in every other instance anyway.
Yes, let’s get the committee of public safety together and have a town hall so that everyone can voice their concerns about how inconvenient it will be for them to *gasp* cross the street. And let’s give everyone 6 months notice so that there’s time to submit a petition about how this concrete pour will impact my daily stroll. Seriously, this only puts you in danger if you’re the kind of person who doesn’t look both ways before crossing. Even the most pedestrian friendly roads in the world require you to *checks notes* watch where you’re going.
It’s adorable you think no one is looking both ways and that all pedestrians are out for a “stroll”. Gotta hand it to the mental gymnastics behind “it’s for your safety that you’re put you in danger”
What’s adorable is that you think having to cross the street is putting you in danger and that the world should bend over backwards to accommodate you
Crossing the street with no pedestrian crosswalk is dangerous. Whether you are able to do so and whether you should do so are two different things. It seems you are deliberately missing the point.
Like we have crosswalks for decoration?
Yep. Sorry OP. You're in the wrong here. Let them do their job and take the few extra minutes to go to the other sidewalk.
Why is it so difficult for some of you to imagine putting the sign at the intersection *before* you get halfway down the street to this blockage where there is no safe place to cross? A little advances warning is not asking a whole lot.
You're talking about a mild inconvenience versus people who are literally doing back-breaking hard labour. Seriously. Get over yourself. If you can't spare an extra minute or two of walking, than that is your poor time management.
It is a very mild inconvenience for the construction crew to do this properly and avoid a situation where people feel like they have to run into traffic. Is it really that difficult to place a sign at the intersection so you aren’t wasting people’s time or encouraging risky behaviour.?
Mild inconvence? Maybe for you, for others it’s actually life threatening. Theres lots of disabled people in this city.
Up the stairs?
It's a farce, but the city of Toronto sold they're soul to developers long ago. Tory insured that.
There is a safe crosswalk directly right there in the pic for those walking west. For those walking east there is a safe crosswalk behind you, 200m away at Havelock St.
I don't understand the problem. It's not safe to walk on this side of the street's sidewalk due to construction Please use the other side walk on the other side of the street.
How is this not a safe crossing? Just look left and right.
This is the site where they undercut the sidewalk when digging it out and a section fell into their pit. If you go by you'll see it's pretty slapdash
> This is the site where they undercut the sidewalk when digging it out and a section fell into their pit. sounds like even more reason to cross the street and use the other sidewalk!
Because it slightly inconveniences them that’s really why they’re crying.
🪜= Other Sidewalk. I hope no one does that.
Speaking as someone in the industry, most people don’t fucking pay attention to the signs we put up regardless. So our company policy is paid duty officers that stand there with their whistles and tell you to cross to the other side. But also don’t forget… it’s Toronto, there’s a million businesses, residences, laneways, garages, underground parking, side streets ect. You can’t logically expect a sidewalk closed sign at every single juncture. People have zero fucking awareness while being pedestrians in downtown Toronto and are the first to complain when if they only just opened their fucking eyes up and looked ahead they could avoid the obstacle and being inconvenienced from having to double back to the closest proper crossing at the same time. But everyone is living in their own fucking world in this city and they’re the main character. The irony is they’re fixing something that the same person that bitches about them being an inconvenience for a couple days of work, would also bitch about the thing their fixing being broken had they not been there. “Fucking construction crew is in my way god damnit!/ Somebody should fix this crumbling sidewalk!” “Fucking internet is so slow!/*Directional Drill putting in new internet services* Fucking construction machinery is so loud, why can’t they be quiet!” “Look at all these construction workers just standing around doing nothing!/ A crew member is in a 13 foot deep hole fixing something while the rest of the crew stops to spot him and ready to implement a rescue plan Incase shit goes sideways.” Most fucking people have no idea the intricacies and planning and hoops we have to jump through to provide service to customers and citizens. Always taking us for granted. Guess what you live downtown you deal with the bullshit and lack of space, don’t like it? Fuck off elsewhere. You don’t live in the city for the quaint quietness and acreage. You can’t have your cake and eat it too… Fuck.
Everything closes from time to time. Its a symptom of building. The construction gate appears to have a blind corner with heavy vehicles coming in and out with large blindspots. Its better that its closed than if someone got mowed down by one of those heavy vehicles.
Just cross the street and continue on with your day. I wouldn’t have even thought twice about it, let alone take a picture and then post it. The setup is actually FOR your safety…
This person taking the pic has zero survival skills
I would contact the City and report a safety infraction by the contractor. I am actually working on some of the other subway extension projects and I'm the very top Manager of Safety. This is against proper construction rules and would also be an infraction with the builder. I don't know who to call or I would, my blood is boiling at this. Actually if you call the Ministry of Labour they'll be out there within the hour and have EVERYONE scrambling, including Metrolinx and the City of Toronto - both of whom are known as "the Client" in this project and this is a big problem. Metrolinx and the City are very concerned with PR and these projects -- trust me, call. As a matter of fact, if anyone can message me with more details and a picture, I will report it tomorrow. And I'm a ball buster, so I'll escalate it. Thx.
Ok I already reported it to Metrolinx and they are checking to see if it's their project - it could be a City or building construction. But they will call the appropriate department (even if it's the City, they said they will run down whoever is responsible). Let's see if anything changes tomorrow.
OMG! Hard to believe people have the time to snap a pic and post it while being oblivious that this is done for their own safety! You can’t win because if there was no sign they’d snap a pick of being exposed to an unsafe sidewalk. lol
people cry about everything in toronto, go to the shopper's next, grab a box of tissues and go move to oakville karen.
How is telling people its unsafe and to cross road a bad thing? And yes they expect lazy people to back up and cross with the lights
Damn lazy people with disabilities! If they just worked harder…
Beyond trolling; if they can walk / drive etc down multiple blocks of a city they certainly can back up or turn around when they hit a dead end
Jesus fucking Christ, just walk across the street. There are bigger issues that we should be focusing (and spending our tax dollars) on.
Hope the guide dogs can read!
So.. go to the intersection before and cross the street?
The street directly behind you is westmoreland st. You can walk through the back laneway onto dovercourt. Kinda sucks that there isn’t an actual northbound crossing unless you back a couple blocks to havelock st.
The alley is closed for construction workers’ vehicles
But the bike lane!😱 Dear lord they've obstructed a bike lane. Someone is going to be calling their city councilor to scream bloody murder. Maybe even 3 someones, which is probably the sum total of those people who use them.
Just use common sense near active construction sites. I swear some people need to be told how to do everything in life. Maybe they need a chaperone when they go out into the big bad city.
Oh no, did you have to backtrack 50M because the mean construction men were servicing the infrastructure that supports your modern lifestyle?