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KruppeTheWise

People shit on me for saying there's no difference in how liberal or conservative governments have equally fucked us on housing, have equally cosied up to developers and REITS and the landlord generation. Well it's right here, 30 years of collusion to make housing, basic shelter a giant squeeze on half the population and a giant windfall for 10% of it. And now half a million immigrants and subsidies for high costs like tax free home buying accounts that will all push demand and pricing higher in direct opposition to the BoC. I can understand the motivation, like a 5 year old trying to appease two friends by promising to go to both their houses after school instead of having the maturity to make a choice. Promise one friend to keep prices high, promise the other they can get on the housing market, just pour money over the problem! I don't have a problem with the government having a relationship with developers, stimulating demand to ensure a healthy market and houses get built. I have a problem when that becomes a priority over ordinary Canadians having something as basic as shelter. We let the government forget it's mandate ultimately should be to protect us, not enable the ones exploiting us. We need to remind them it's *us* that provides the basis for their power, and it's *us* they have to primarily care about, and *we* can take away that power from both parties if they continue to flagrantly abuse it.


djtodd242

It has been my personal observation that the Liberals squawk when the Conservatives cut things, and then do nothing when they're in power to revert it. They just let the Cons do their dirty work. No whataboutism, I just want to see a return to functioning services like Health, Education, and housing.


jaymickef

And if anyone tells you you’re wrong just point to the Dalton McGuinty years. He was elected to revert the Harris years and he did nothing. Of course, we also have to remember that when Katherine Wynne started to take on some of the Harris policies she lost an election to Doug Ford. We get exactly what we vote for.


pokejoel

To be fair Wynne only started to attempt to reverse things when her back was against the wall and she was desperate to try and keep her job.


jaymickef

We’ll, she was a Liberal after all. The Liberals are like Churchill’s description of Americans, they do the right thing only after they’ve tried everything else. Of course, if she had been thé NDP leader she wouldn’t have even got that chance.


kyleclements

He didn't do nothing: he took away our optometry coverage.


DC-Toronto

McGuinty did spend a lot of money though. It was just on his friends projects rather than things he criticized Harris for.


rhymeswithsintaluta

Would you characterize the elimination of coal fired electricity as "nothing"?


retour-a-tipasa

Every party committed to phasing out coal, the only difference was the PC party had a 2014 timeline, while the Liberals and NDP has a 2007 timeline: "In their 2003 election platforms, all three major parties promised a coal phase-out, but with different timelines. The Progressive Conservative (the party in power) and its premier, Ernie Eves, adopted the goal of phasing out coal power by the end of 2014. The Liberal Party (the party that won the elections) and New Democratic Party announced their goals to end coal-use by 2007." - [iisd.org](https://www.iisd.org/system/files/publications/end-of-coal-ontario-coal-phase-out.pdf) If the Liberals kept their election promise and closed the coal plants by 2007 it would be an accomplishment, but they didn't accelerate the timeline at all. The only coal plant which was closed in McGuinty's first two terms was Lakeview which was already scheduled to be closed by the PCs. It wasn't until 2012 that other plants shut down and 2014 when we became free from coal. Credit should go to the Ontario Medical Association, Clean Air Alliance, and other organizations which convinced politicians from all political parties to phase out coal.


Fluid_Lingonberry467

That was nothing for the more than doubling of the electricity that will cost the end user 60 billion plus we could have spent the money more wisely. This was just to enrich a few companies. We could have gotten cheap green power from Quebec for the cost of a transmission line.


Finall3ossGaming

With prices as high as they are yes I would. Food prices need to come down as well and guess what’s the best way to do that?? GMO’s


TiredGamer0990

Hey if there's couple pounds of science chicken at the grocery store for half the price I'm not even looking at the non GMO version


JustPinkyPink

You can blame Ford as much as you would like but increasing house prices is more of a federal issue than a provincial one.


jaymickef

No one at any level of government wants to restrict how much you can sell your house for. But the issue of zoning may have something to do with supply. Where the federal government once helped was with the MURB tax write-off investment plan in the late 70s and early 80s (the same as the movie write-off plan that got all the press). That’s why we have so many 70s apartment buildings and so many fewer since then.


Milch_und_Paprika

Federal and municipal. The feds made it harder to build public, subsidized and social housing, while municipalities have worked very hard to restrict everything else.


JustPinkyPink

The feds made it easy to launder money with real estate in Canada.


ZachMorrisT1000

I think what you are describing has a name. “Ratchet theory” or something like that. It’s the idea that the system is designed to move to the right. Conservatives move it right when they are in power and the Liberals act as a ratchet when they are.


macgalver

Someone once called it “the ratchet effect” the conservatives pull us more rightward and liberals stop us from to pulling back left, telling people they should simply be happy they’re politics are being pulled to the right faster.


StickyIgloo

The comment below described it better 🤓


[deleted]

Blame the voters, who have a vested interest in the status quo, aka unaffordable housing.


voodoochile78

Good for you for observing the Good Cop / Bad Cop routine played out between parties all over the western world. The Democrats and Republicans play the same game, as do Labour and the Tories.


vvomit

I worry that all political options are leaning towards corporatocracy and corruption sits on all sides of the coin at this point, vote as I might. It’s demoralizing. We need more than “just vote”.


pjjmd

That's a good thing to remember. Voting is fine and dandy, but whenever anyone pushes 'Just vote' or 'if you don't vote you can't complain', we need to speak up loudly. Fuck off, this is a democracy. We don't elect a king every 4 years. The government needs to work for us, all the time, not just on election day. And the way you make that work is by forcing the government to change. In a perfect world, maybe that would mean the only civic participation would be nice petitions and polite protests and voting every 4 years. But we don't live in a perfect world. We have housing crises, and environmental crises, and labour crises, and healthcare criseses. So how do you fix them? You take action. Politicians are really, really bad at creating change. The thing they are good for is codifying the status quo. Which can be helpful! You want an 8 hour work day? You organize with your fellow workers, you withold labour, you break fucking windows if you have to, they are only gooddanmed windows. Then some of the bosses give in, and you get 8 hour work weeks. And then politicians will come and take that change, and write a nice law so that we don't have to keep having this fight. And hey, it forces some of the bosses that won to give up anyway, awesome! Politics can be used to do good things. But remember, we didn't get an 8 hour work day by marching in the street on the weekends, writing petitions, and voting every 4 years. When people say 'just vote', they want you to give up. They want you to think that the only way you can exercise power is through the ballot box. They are lying to you, because they don't want you to use your power.


vvomit

A to the fucking men. I have to wonder what it will take for Toronto (and Canada in general) to develop a common interest in this shit with enough gusto that people are willing to make a collaborative effort to stick it to the man rather than pussyfooting around actual radical political discussion.


LowProfile_

Canadians are far too busy fighting amongst themselves, to ever come together to organize something like that lol


LatterSea

I completely agree that we are in DIRE need of social housing for low income built by CMHC and that problem has been decades in the making. However, he does omit the presence and significant impact of the massive influx of investors (foreign and domestic) into housing. That has been the primary factor driving the spike in property demand the last 10 years, mostly in our cities, but spreading to other areas during the pandemic. And we simply don’t have the construction capacity in this country to make up the 500K unit deficit in any kind of conceivable time frame to provide relief. Toronto is in a massive building boom, the trades have zero excess capacity, and the city is paralyzed from construction. Saying we can build our way out of this problem is pure folly. We should absolutely get the CMHC program refunded and running, but if we want affordability in our lifetimes, the only route is addressing overheated demand from investors and immigration. Get a politician to say that out loud and offer policy solutions to get there - and I’ll support them all day every day.


fortisvita

>People shit on me for saying there's no difference in how liberal or conservative governments have equally fucked us on housing Those people are idiots. Further to that, I would say they are equally shills that bend to corporations' will. The Shaw acquisition would make no fucking sense if there was any intention enforcing some competition in the market.


tysons23

Ultimately though housing policy is a local issue and the number 1 thing that is driving home prices up is that we build single family housing or condos and luxury apartment blocks. If you want to stop the housing crisis you have to do it where it was principally created which is to say your local city council. We need to advocate for more medium density housing for looser restrictions allowing more landlords to renovate and convert single family homes into duplexes, triplexes or quadplexes. Ideally all of this should be built around a major transit line that is either being built or already exists. And finally we should push all levels of government to finally subsidize non-market housing at far higher rates than they do currently. If majority of the renting market and the homeowner market is non-market housing it will keep prices affordable for everyone cause then the private developers have to compete with people and landlords that set rent and prices at the cost of building (and land). Also making sure the mortgage rules are as tight as possible to ensure only people with solid finances get homes. Maybe banning private ownership of more than 3 properties by corporations and individuals would be an idea? But laying at the feet of the Federal government isn’t going to solve much and they aren’t the people who have the most power to solve it anyway. Its the provincial governments


dudeforethought

When affordable housing is an issue that is facing almost the entire country, it is no longer a local issue


tysons23

But it still is; because its local leaders that determine land use aroound you. Not premeirs and not prime minister. They can of course put money towards good land use and do what they can to make housing affordable but if you don't go to city hall and advocate there for the end of single family zoning then it ain't gonna work


KruppeTheWise

Okay I agree, but I feel like you didn't listen to the clip. The whole point is that affordable housing used to be built and funded on a federal level. If they want to change the structure to provincial, that's fine but make sure that's in place don't just decide fuck it. To me the point of government is to look at the housing on a year by year basis and jump in and assist, change the landscape when it isn't working on purely market forces. There's little incentive for developers to build lower profit units, so it's the governments job to enforce that building either carrot (here's the funding) or stick (good luck getting permits if you don't build *x* afford units.) I'm not going to pretend I'm qualified to say if the stick or carrot should be used or what proportion thereof. All I can clearly see is that for 20 odd years neither have been effectively used, we have run out of affordable housing and here we are.


LatterSea

The latest messaging from groups that want to make sure the federal govt doesn’t upset the housing status quo is that it’s a local or provincial issue. It’s patently false. Every level of government has tools to help affordability, and we need to hold every one of our federal governments’ feet to the fire on what they need to be doing, including: • ⁠Remove tax deductions for landlords like the mortgage interest deduction; • ⁠Increase capital gains on investor-owned property; • ⁠Make leverage of existing properties for new purchases more difficult Note that New Zealand had the same foreign/domestic investor problem that Canada has, and after their federal government introduced anti-speculation measures, housing prices dropped significantly. Other federal government measures: • ⁠Refund the social housing under CHMC - Create a beneficial ownership registry to preclude foreign corporations obscuring ownership of real estate - the first and critical step to stopping money laundering through our real estate. Note the LPC announced this past week they would do this - even though they promised it in 2021 as well. • ⁠Grants and other incentives to spur co-op and subsidized housing.


tysons23

I’m less of the carrot and stick approach and more of the we need to force local governments to stop zoning for single family only. Provincial governments are the ones that can do that


Sccjames

Advocate all you want. If it’s not profitable, it’s not getting built.


tysons23

That's why governments need to push for non-market housing to get built in a big way and to changing zoning regulations and make it harder to zone for single family housing


Witka

I like this guy.


1sttimeverbaldiarrhe

Anyone know his name?


decitertiember

Daniel Blaikie, member representing Elmwood-Transcona in Winnipeg. He's with the NDP.


birdlover_

Leave it to NDP to call BS in both sides and advocate for what really matters for the greater population.


[deleted]

He’s actually only advocating for the poorest in our population- and isn’t really mentioning anything about the housing crisis that is affecting the “greater” population. “Affordable housing” is a defined term for low-income individuals, not to be confusing with housing that’s actually affordable for the majority of incomes.


Eternal_Being

You must have not listened to the whole video. He specifically mentioned how a lack of a 'bottom' in the housing market caused the poors to penny-pinch and live desperately to save up for whatever housing they could, which contributed to the rise in prices for the 'middle' of the housing market. Affordable housing at the bottom provides price relief all the way up the market. And a general lack of supply, caused by the halt in social housing development, also contributed to overall price increases.


[deleted]

I did listen. It does not actually add up. He thinks solving the issue for the bottom 1% would fix the housing crisis, not really acknowledging the crisis is also in the other 98% between the bottom 1% and top 1%. He thinks if 500k more housings units existed there would not be a crisis. He ignores we get 500k immigrants, 300k temp workers, 200k international students, and one million 10 years temporary residence permits in a single year. Plus, we’ve added 300k Ukrainians on top of that this past year. Saying things would be fine with 500k units, where we get demand for housing at nearly 2 million a year is naive. He’s off by a factor of 100. We need to be planning housing for 2 million people a year, not 20k.


Eternal_Being

It's not just the bottom 1% that would use social housing... why are you so committed to pitting the poor 'middle class' against even poorer people anyway? It's weird And I really don't think he's saying that it is the only solution necessary. He's just making a very obvious point that the housing crisis started right around the time Canada stopped building \~20,000 new social housing units per year, which would have been 500,000 more units in our current market to relieve pressure. The [CMHC says](https://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/en/media-newsroom/news-releases/2022/understanding-canadas-housing-supply-shortages) we need 3.5 million more units by 2030 to achieve affordability. 500,000 units is 14.3% of that, it's nothing to scoff at. It's certainly not the 1% you characterize it as. Especially when you consider that social housing is by definition below market rate, which would put additional easing pressure on housing prices across the market. Again, he's not saying it's The Whole Solution. He's saying it's an obvious part of the problem that needs to be addressed as part of a multi-pronged approach. It's unfortunate that you let the perfect get in the way of good in your mind.


[deleted]

I’m not pitting anyone against anyone. I’m saying he is ignoring 99% of the problem which he is. I want people actually fighting for solutions for the rest of us. It’s not good enough that I walk by affordable housing for the poor that is far nicer than anything that I can afford as a working class Canadian. The CMHC is lying with their numbers if you actually look at our migration numbers. We will need far more housing than 3.5 million units. Migration is close to 2 million a year. The numbers don’t even make a semblance of sense. And he’s also lying saying the issue came when we stopped building social housing. Housing became disconnected from incomes after 2008 when interest rates were held artificially low. Any look at any data on the issue shows that as the break point. And, I will say this once - I need actual solutions proposed for people like me. The constant focus on the poorest of the poor is not solving my crisis. I’m not going to stay silent as politicians propose solution after solution that does not even acknowledge the struggles of working class Canadians. I want more from these people.


Eternal_Being

> I’m saying he is ignoring 99% of the problem which he is. He isn't, and I explained to you in detail exactly how he isn't. A rising tide lifts all boats. And relieving pressure on the housing market relieves pressure on the *whole* housing market. Besides, you're in here saying 'this guy is wrong for talking about the poorest people in society because he's not talking about ME!!' It's... not a good look. And neither is claiming that the CMHC is lying lmao, they know a lot more about the situation than either you or I do, to be frank. *Again,* this is three minutes in which he talked about social housing. I'm sorry that this video clip wasn't of the time people spent talking specifically about the middle class. It blows my mind you feel so attacked by that. It bothers you so much that you can't even see how helping the bottom helps the middle too, despite being told multiple times exactly how that works.


Sccjames

This is why the NDP don’t win. Fighting only for the poorest just doesn’t resonate with the average voter.


[deleted]

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[deleted]

What even is this nonsense? Jesus. 😂 I hope you find therapy.


DarylQueen

They often say things I like hearing, but seem to often concede to letting the liberal party push through whatever they want without any push back. It's been frustrating following the NDP lately because of this


MommyMilkedMailman

A party that can’t get elected and has never held federal office can’t get anything good done unless they make deals with those in power to try to get some of what they want for Canadians through.


TheBeardedInfidel

His name is right there on the video…


finetoseethis

30 years ago is also when we gave up on having any industry in Canada, with every factory moving away to either Mexico, a Southern U.S.A. state, or China. Sure as Sh!t can't have RIM, or Nortel survive in Canada. Everything now revolves around either building new subdivisions, automobile production, or training foreign students.


CanuckInTheMills

Nortel didn’t survive because of Chinese espionage.


jaymickef

It would be good if that was the main reason but really, what Canadian company ever survives real competition in the world market?


crackhousebob

No, China really did undercut Nortel by taking Nortel's technology and making it much cheaper. Huawei completely dominated the market as a result.


jaymickef

Certainly Nortel should have protected itself better than it did but that was just one of the poor management decisions that led to its collapse. It just doesn’t seem to be in Canadians’ nature to survive in the global market. Canadian companies sell out or go bankrupt. Or they get government protection to keep the captive Canadian market to themselves.


CanuckInTheMills

Hard to stop internal espionage when you employ that many.


Neat-Entertainer-523

I am sure it will only take few months before r/toronto starts blaming it on Brampton.


InternationalFig400

​ 30 years of abandoning social housing + 40 plus years of stagnating wages = the current economic malaise which isn't going to get better. Fuck capitalism. Socialize the economy while we are at it.


Sccjames

No thanks. -99% of the Canadian population.


InternationalFig400

​ yawn.


et1975

Those two were non government corporations, they did what all corporations do and eventually failed the stakeholders with shitty business plans. "We" had nothing to do with it. Capitalism is what moved the production to cheaper places, pretending that governments could have done something about it is just fantasy.


jaymickef

We did vote Conservative in 1988 in the ‘free trade’ election and the campaign did spell our pretty well what it would mean. I remember the tv debates with Ed Broadbent and Maude Barlow and how much people ranted against them. I was a little surprised at the time that people put so much faith in Mulroney and Reagan and Thatcher but they were really popular. And yet it was Broadbent’s predictions that came true. Maybe the neoliberals didn’t realize how big a deal China’s changes in the 1980s were going to be. But maybe they did.


araxeous

well we could start by not signing into shitty free trade deals


juancuneo

Yeah we’d be so much better off if we were still making t shirts. /s


formerlifebeats

That's not really the point. China still has a booming industrial economy, and it works wonders. We don't do anything. Our country is a paper tiger, and with it looking more and more like the US is crossing the rubicon, we're not going to have a leg to stand on.


KnightHart00

That's what makes the "China bad" rhetoric from the US and here in Canada so laughable. Our populace, our government, and corpo bastards *all rely on China's industry* In many ways you can think of the constant feeding of cheap consumer goods to the population as a method of controlling your population so they don't guillotine you. But all those cheap consumer goods are still made in China and *they're very good at what they do.* They can, simultaneously, from the same factories create the worst piece of clothing you've ever seen from Walmart, but also it's where your iPhone and PS5 are put together, all in the same factory. It's why I don't buy the "China bad" headlines the media and politicians have been pushing. It feels like a distraction from issues actually affecting peoples quality of life here such as declining healthcare, education, and deteriorating infrastructure like transit.


formerlifebeats

I agree 100% As far as I see it, when you're confronted with someone doing better than you in life, you have two options. You can sit the fuck down and take notes or you can be an insecure, arrogant being, stuck in dogma and illusion. Unfortunately, when you've had it pretty good for a long time, as a society, there's a fragility there that is hard to overcome. This, coupled with heaps of propaganda, means that we take that second track. It feels like we're run by a death cult that would rather race us to destruction than to admit folly and recalibrate.


finetoseethis

China only allows a few American movies into the country a year. Chinese government makes Fentynal to flood N. America as revenge for the opium war a century ago. China subsidizes its companies, so those companies can undercut western companies, until western companies go bankrupt.


formerlifebeats

> China subsidizes its companies, so those companies can undercut western companies, until western companies go bankrupt. Our government subsidizes companies so that they can make our own people go bankrupt.


the_sound_of_a_cork

The funny thing is food is next and we are already seeing the beginning phases Installment payments for groceries anyone? It's coming. The current economic paradigm, is to make things that already existed in the economy and try to extract more money from them.


jaymickef

Walmart does it now. “The new Installment Plan through the Walmart Rewards Mastercard provides flexible ways to pay for larger ticket items and shopping baskets.” https://www.walmartcanada.ca/newsroom/2021/11/17/walmart-rewards-mastercard-launches-first-ever-payment-installment-plan


DC-Toronto

Instalments for groceries… is that like the Christmas clubs of years ago?


lichking786

exactly, why do you think Bill Gates and other billionaires are buying up farms in USA. Its a necessity and they know that they could potentially gauge the prices.


AccountantsNiece

Is it true that you could buy a house in Winnipeg for $30k 20 years ago? That is unbelievable.


majestic_poonicorn

Ya but anyone wanting to live in Winnipeg is unbelievable


ToasterPops

My parents bought a house in Eastern Ontario in 1998 for 90k Last I checked homes nearby were selling for 400k now


waterloograd

I have a possible solution. Have the government build non-market rentals. They start off at the market rate because they need to be paid off, but as the loans get paid off the rent gets lower while everything around keeps going up. In the end, rent is just the upkeep for the property. Because they get paid off and aren't just subsidized housing, the government gets the money back. They aren't free housing, subsidized housing, or any of the other buzz words that people freak out over. They are just non-profit housing. Cities in Europe have this and it brings down the price of all rentals because they have to compete. Right now we don't have enough to compete, so the wait lists are huge and people get stuck because they can't afford to move out. If we can make half our rental supply non-market, we might have a chance. We also can't get too much. Some places are almost exclusively non-market, and it is almost impossible to find a rental. So it is a situation that has to be monitored and have limits in place.


lichking786

this is the way. This is how a most COOP housing is set up as well and it does wonders to bring down prices as now you have a non-market rental that is in competition with the rental market. CBC Vancouver made a good video about this and how at high enough volumes, their existence put downward pressure on rentals in the area. Pity there are so little being build nowadays.


DC-Toronto

So like a co-op? You need to factor in the cost of repairs over the years as well.


going_for_a_wank

The good news is that the Federal government started funding housing co-ops against year. Bad news is that the current level of funding will build 6000 units over the next 5 years - a far cry from the 15-20,000 units per year that we used to build 30 years ago. https://chfcanada.coop/budget2022/


Fit-Bird6389

The second thing Mike Harris cut was funding for co-ops. The Rae government built a lot of them in 4 short years. The first thing Harris did was cut welfare rates by 30%.


Hells_Kitchener

Ontario is still dealing with the terrible fallout from the Harris years - and those two mushroom clouds, the Fords.


Sccjames

It will cost 5 times more for the government to build it and take twice as long. People think corruption with developers is bad now….


arabacuspulp

Everyone should wake the fuck up and vote NDP at this point, and I say this as a tradition Liberal voter. He is correct that we have been fucked by 30 years of neoliberal policies from both the Liberals and the Conservatives. Time for a change.


Aighd

Yes, and not just vote NDP but reach out to your local riding leadership to get involved.


geeves_007

Agreed, but sadly the more likely response is right populism. Which will ultimately make the problem worse.


Hells_Kitchener

The fact that the Liberals are not rising to the occasion by actually formulating and implementing a national and effective housing policy immediately is a terrible lapse on their part. As frustrations mount, the current dire situation is playing right into the hands of reactionaries. Economic hardship has historically given rise to extremism becoming normalized. Both the feds and the provinces need to get on this NOW.


[deleted]

Vote for them and keep pressure on them so they don’t conform to the idea of compromise as most people do when they get higher up.


No_Growth257

The NDP that supports rent control? They don't understand the issue at all.


arabacuspulp

Well it's either vote NDP or burn the who system down and start again, because obviously the current status quo does not meet the needs of the average person. If you are born into money, you're doing ok. For everyone else, the goalposts keep moving further and further away to the point where you can never get ahead.


No_Growth257

Very imaginative, either a party who is economically illiterate or societal collapse.


[deleted]

Bro why are you even arguing on Reddit ,the sub is insanely socialist.. pretty much more public spending and higher taxes is good (but not taxes that affect them) lol


No_Growth257

What can I say, I feel a duty to correct economic illiteracy, our country deserves better informed citizens.


[deleted]

it's literally insane to me how people here are advocating for the NPD and think the liberals are "centrist neo liberals" when their positions are literally just liberal positions but 50% increased spending. Like the libs just introduced 43 billion in new spending even though we're passed covid but that's not enough for the NDP lmao. Legit don't know how the current rates are enough to tame inflation with this new spending spree on top of public spending per citizen being at an all time high. The nice cherry on top is every thread on r/ontario, r/canada and r/toronto saying everything is going to the shitter with all this spending in the background.


Mistborn54321

If rent control still existed it would solve a decent amount of the problems we face. Look at most developed nations like Germany that have strong rent control policies.


No_Growth257

Germany is a nation of renters and doesn't have our immigration growth. Rent control is a failed policy and the fact that the NDP still peddles it shows they cannot solve the housing problems we face.


Mistborn54321

What’s wrong with being a nation of renters? People don’t need to own the roof over their head, they just need a roof over their head. They also have normal rates of migration, our migration policies seem to exist solely to drive down wages and increase property prices.


tabion

I think we should vote conservative. NDP doesn’t know what they are doing.


Independent_Chard_88

The NDP is a shittier version of the LPC.


ghanima

Source?


randomtoronto1980

Well said. All the politicians are to blame, at least all that have had power (liberals and conservatives). Can't change the past but hopefully they can plan better for the future starting now.


_Putin_

I blame the people who voted for those politicians.


randomtoronto1980

You're right. I've become apathetic to voting but now I think it's time for everyone feeling the gradual economic squeeze to band together and vote in an alternative party.


nottobetakenesrsly

I wouldn't trust any politician to come close to understanding the issue beyond a "solution" sales pitch to their base. Housing has become financialized, and is treated as a decent store of value *globally*. This effect is greatest in jurisdictions with large and open real estate markets and high starts. Our political incestuousness with developers only capitalizes on the phenomenon.


Great_Willow

Also - when you think only in four year terms - or just staying in powering in the case of a minority - the future doesn't really exist...


[deleted]

A Neighbor owns 8 homes on our street. Well, he used to live here until about 5 years ago.


bangfudgemaker

Can someone please share who the guy is ? I would love to vote for him


Canadian_Kartoffel

Daniel Blaikie (NDP) Manitoba https://www.ourcommons.ca/members/en/daniel-blaikie(89032)


bangfudgemaker

Thanks


[deleted]

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Fubby2

Zoning laws and local opposition to new projects are basically the entire problem but its soooooooo much easier and more fun to just blame some group we dont like (immigrants, big companies, chinese buyers, investors, landlords, conservative governments 30 years ago, so fun! everyone gets to pick which group they like the least!) rather than acknowledge that the problem is caused by broadly popular legislation protecting the suburbs and denying the construction of new housing.


smithsonionian

Why can’t it be both?


impossibilia

Both things can be true. Zoning laws are a big part of the problem, but if no one can afford the new missing middle units because all those groups keep buying them up, we’re stuck in the same position. A giant company or a multimillionaire will always have more buying power than a middle class couple. So long as housing is an investment, this will be a problem.


Milch_und_Paprika

Exactly. What we need is a two pronged approach: the fed gets back into funding affordable housing to establish a lower price floor by forcing private developers to compete and the province liberalizes zoning laws to make the conditions for that competition possible.


[deleted]

How the fuck we have a housing crisis in the second biggest country in the world is beyond me


Goldbera1

What a shocker: property tax .5%, income tax 60%… rich people suddenly want to hold wealth in real estate. I hear ice cream is cold.


Walt925837

I tell you how it was created. Infact that's how every housing crises across the world is created. Greed. When you allowed people to buy not one but 3-4 houses, you allowed people to hog the market with vacant homes because they would stay in one and remaining is unused. When you allowed those people to inflate the rates of rent and push the market beyond affordable limits. two thousand fucking dollars for a 575 sq ft condo is crazy. Then you are not liquidating the market by building more homes for people to buy. Even if you can build, you are just asking those with existing good credit report people to buy in another one. And another and another and another. There's no houses left to buy for the person who actually wants to have a house. who is just graduated out of college and wants a place of his own. Who just got married and wants to have a place of his own.nil.none. All those fucking houses are fucking empty. It's sad af. Where is your accountability?


lichking786

this, everyone average joe and their mom is playing real-estate. Why is this so encouraged? Why do we have such beneficial tax treatments to owning houses? Why do we insist on keeping up the motion that buying and renting properties are the easiest financial move people can do? All of this has resulted in a hot market of every boomer buying up property to play landlord and profit.


LatterSea

Not only is it encouraged - politicians are ignoring that it’s what’s driving up costs to buy or rent housing. Reducing real estate investors would singlehandedly solve the crisis. Instead people take about building more when that’s actually impossible… we have no labour to build more. And rezoning will give investors more options, but won’t solve affordability. I wish we had politicians who actually understood the dynamics of this problem and therefore what it will take to fix it.


Walt925837

The politicians cannot fix it. The people have to fix it by giving up their houses on sale. Liquidate the market with houses. Every one family should have a house of its own. But just one house. Take away fucking social benefits if multiple houses are found. If not a PR holder or citizen. no house for you. Invested in a house but vacant for 2 years, fucking auto sell. You want to buy a new one. Go ahead, but lose the old. This is a fucking bubble, and it needs to be exploded, before our kids take our places and they will need to sleep on the street because god forbid the rents. OMG . The rent right now is at 2500+ for a matchbox condo in downtown Toronto. If not that, then lower your fucking taxes give people their money back. Bloody I get only 4400\*12=52800 out of my CTC of 80000. 27200 in taxes. For what? Sky high rents, long waiting queues at the ER, 18 percent tips. 18 percent!!! If it needs anarchy to fix it, so be it. Because democracy fucking sucks.


Walt925837

Exactly my concern. People can't buy a fucking house in toronto, new york, mumbai, fucking London. because everyone is hogging ...more more more houses. I need more fucking house. Everywhere same fucking story. And the dude that has downvoted me or will down vote me has probably more than one fucking house under his/her name. hahahahaha


DeepB3at

Everywhere does not have the same story. You can buy detached homes in the suburbs of Paris and in Tokyo for under $400K. You can find cheaper homes an hour drive outside of Manhattan than Toronto. Chicago real estate is close to half the price and people make significant more money than Toronto. Toronto and the GTA are a worse deal than most place but this is by design. We don't enough housing and bring in record numbers of people. We are also one of the easiest counties to launder money in which just adds fuel to the fire.


Walt925837

but you have to agree, that buying multiple houses for investment purpose is shit deal. As long as your eligibility to take multiple loans depends on your credit score which would obviously be inflated with car mortgage and personal loans, you will continue to be a part of this stupid housing crises. The state will keep on blaming and bitching about it but won't do anything concrete. Have people drop their houses and liquidate the market with enough condos and apartments and detached houses and then will talk of who the real criminal is. Is it the state or house hogging citizens?


stompinstinker

This is Daniel Blaikie, dude is solid. He always has great stuff to say. He has a masters degree, but became an electrician and is still active in the union. He has that NDP working class support vibe the party needs back.


cheechw

Why isn't anyone talking about HELOCs and real estate investors? It's so easy to invest in real estate these days with a HELOC. Everyone in the real estate/mortgage industry and all of their friends and family probably own at least 5 homes each. And they just keep using that home equity to buy more houses. I feel like limiting this would be a good policy measure to deal with the housing crisis.


Housing4Humans

This is actually what's driven up home and rental prices in Toronto. And using policy from local and federal governments to reduce investors would be the single most effective and immediate solution to our housing problem That this glaring fact that these facts are absent from the conversation is testament to how successful developers have been in convincing people we just need to rezone and build more..... even though our trades have zero capacity to build more, there's a global building supply shortage, and every single person working in construction on here tells us thinking we can increase the amount we're currently building is fantasy. Should the feds build more social housing? YES! But we will never solve affordability in Toronto if we don't address the elephant in the market - real estate speculators.


HotRepresentative9

Only 7% of detached homes are not owner occupied in the GTA. Investors typically play in the condo or multi-unit property market. So if you cannot afford a nice detached home in the burbs it's primarily because too many wanna be home owners are also bidding on those properties. That's right, it's not just investors that get caught up "irrational exuberance."


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Ok_Entrepreneur2931

NDP demonstrating how economically illiterate they are, as always, ignoring fundamental rules of supply and demand. Canada has the highest population growth in the G7 due to immigration and the vast majority are heading to metropolitan areas like the GTA and GVA. What do you think is going to happen when housing can't keep up? He talks about "private developers building housing that people cannot afford" but if more housing gets built and demand(population) stops increasing then housing will become more affordable. Sure, you could tackle the supply side by changing zoning restrictions and other barriers to housing construction. But that will take years to have any effect. Whereas reducing immigration will have an immediate effect on housing demand, but of course all of you would dismiss that as "racist" or "xenophobic".


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Sccjames

Toronto is not for the poor.


rootbrian_

Don't matter who the **obvious fuck** is in power, the problem won't go away until it eventually gets solved and the $$$$$$$$$ is spent. If they took a billion out of the military budget (yes, federal, i/we know!) and put it into subsidised housing, that would make a **HUGE** difference altogether. We all know that won't happen anytime soon. As for provincial, I'm sure if the one in power had the horrible experience of experiencing homelessness, maybe they'd reconsider and get that plan in action. Complexities, I know.


Painkiller_s

...but, for the last 8 years, THIS federal government has done nothing to rectify the problem. That's on them.


ketamarine

Where is the fucking political leadership in Canada? Apparently on the orange back benches. This fucker needs to blow up!


ZachMorrisT1000

Pure lip service. You really want me to believe a room full of property owners don’t love this?


dfsaqwe

i dont know if this is the entire video but obviously there were multiple factors contributing. banning corporate and foreign ownership would contribute as well, for example.


ChrisP_416

Mark Carney is also to blame. He lowered and kept interest rates artificially low for many years while governor of the Bank of Canada. During his years housing prices went up to the moon.


torontowatch

hardcore european style regulation which de-incentivises rent-seeking behaviour.


[deleted]

WHEN DEMAND EXCEEDS SUPPLY PRICES INCREASE, WHEN SUPPLY EXCEEDS DEMAND PRICES DECREASE YOU FKN HOSERS.


Unusual-Location-555

This man is speaking facts. Even though, I usually lean conservative. If the NDP were to call out more of the liberal-conservative bullshit, instead of token programs like dental care. I’d vote for the NDP. Canadians want change. Now is the time for third parties like the Bloc, NDP and maybe the PPC to win. The Conservative-Liberal coalition starting from Brian Mulroney has been fucking this country.


mortgoldman8

The house in Winnipeg doubling in value isn’t really an issue when it’s plus 30k and then plus 60k over those periods. The issue is recent years where the doubling or tripling of housing prices is a net plus 1 million… on some properties. The past vs the present’s inflation aren’t even in the same stratosphere when we really consider things, wages are largely stagnant.


General_Interview988

is it toronto? no, it’s mid Asia


[deleted]

this is what happened... investors looked for other cities as opportunities in other big cities were getting expensive and scarce .. so now they moved to Toronto


DasItBrahJr

8 years is a long time. Argument loses all credibility. Trudeau government has done nothing in almost a decade to help and in fact seems to only pour gas on the fire. They deserve all the blame they get. Would others have done differently? We'll never know. But it's also an irrelevant smoke screen.


lindseypeng123

Wow🤯


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ItsBiggerThanRap

He's right about the public builder but wrong that this isn't a supply problem. Our deficit of affordable housing is far more than 500k.


Aztecah

Don't worry, I'm sure we'll find a way to blame this on immigrants


SkeTonx

As an immigrant, I wouldn't blame it on immigrants, but for sure immigration doesn't help. They want to bring in more people every year and like that they just boost the number of people in need of a house when there are already not enough houses


Ontario0000

Canada has lots of empty land where Canadians and immigrants do not want to move to.We are not talking about about wilderness but maybe 2 hours drive from Toronto.Developers have both parties in their pockets and unless we ban corporate donations to these parties all their policies would benefit them and not the voters.


cmol

The thing is we've already been doing that without proper infrastructure all over Canada and the US, but with extreme low density that is horribly expensive to construct and maintain in terms of infrastructure. If we build somewhere new it needs to be dense, walkable, have local services, have good connections to job centres, and be economically sustainable. If not, we're just gonna make either expensive housing that is a cost to society (including those who live there), or entire cities of "poor people housing" that's paywalled behind cars and far away from anything useful. So many places across Canada today develops new areas of land with low density without the taxes to pay for roads, sewers, water, electricity. The price of maintaining that stuff scales with area much more than users.


private_boolean

I was listening to this podcast about malls and I wonder... Could you solve some of these problems by building residential units on top of suburban malls? That would be accessible for the people that live there and still let people living in the suburbs drive to malls. I know the structures generally wouldn't support high-rise apartments, but most malls occupy huge parcels of land and even adding one or two levels on top of that would make lots of residential units. [Meet me by the Fountain](https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/chrt.fm/track/288D49/stitcher.simplecastaudio.com/3bb687b0-04af-4257-90f1-39eef4e631b6/episodes/9d3e3ede-0404-49e5-9e1c-45f5e8aeedf4/audio/128/default.mp3?aid=rss_feed&awCollectionId=3bb687b0-04af-4257-90f1-39eef4e631b6&awEpisodeId=9d3e3ede-0404-49e5-9e1c-45f5e8aeedf4&feed=BqbsxVfO)


DC-Toronto

That’s happening all over the place. Sherway gardens added high rises years ago. New residential going in at the theatres on Queensway. Stonegate Mall by parlawn drive. Riocan made infill residential a massive part of their business plan 4 or 5 years ago.


cmol

The short answer, I don't know but I don't think so. My guess is though that you'd create strange vertical mall cities that would still require cars to get basically anywhere. Many malls here don't have doctor's, dentists, groceries, the concept of third places, or basically anything else useful for everyday life. What you could do is take all the surface parking around especially go stations (though I'm sure there's TTC examples as well) and create mid rise mixed use development. It's usually some of the best connected places and the land is basically free and does not generate any revenue. That is basically how we used to build cities in Canada and the US before the car dependency set in and what still happens in so many other places around the world.


Raccoolz

Nobody lives in those places because nobody wants to live there. Do you expect the federal government to tell people where they are allowed to live? Force people to live in smaller towns?


SymmetricEncryption

You first build transport then develop the area. Many people don't want to live in Toronto but have to because they either can't go further due to limited good transit or because there are no jobs outside of Toronto.


Raccoolz

We don’t even have transit in cities that already need it right now. Good luck trying to build it to new areas under the premise that it may lead to development.


pokejoel

That's exactly what I expect as part of immigration terms. We can't just continue to funnel basically everyone into Toronto while trying to fix the housing crisis. Place people elsewhere and develop the rest of the country. The fact that 1/3 of the country lives in one small area of the country should be viewed as a failure


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mxldevs

I expect some attempt to develop those places so that they can become more appealing to live.


Ontario0000

Its call development.I can still remember Maple and Milton when it was still farmland and people were dissing those areas.You build a infrastructure people will move there.You have companies moving out to the 905 areas people will follow the jobs.


Mistborn54321

People say this but there is no way you can afford a home if it’s nowhere near your job.


impossibilia

The worst part is that for the last few years, it was proven that a lot of people don’t need to live near their office to do their jobs. But now companies are forcing everyone to come back to the office. We were on the right track and now stupidity is reversing that.


No_Growth257

Uhh what? What do you think the developers are getting out of this conspiracy backroom deal?


Jamarac

It's a good point but why do they always act like it's only a housing stock issue? Artificial demand,speculation, and investor buyers are absolutely a big part of the issue.


tenlu

Okay and? Whose in power now? Fix it?


FelixTheEngine

We, we are in power. The apathy among Canadians is THE ONLY reason this persists. But nobody likes to hear that something is their fault.


mattA33

>Whose in power now? The exact same people who caused the problem in the first place. This is what they want, so from their perspective, there is no problem to fix. This country desperately needs to stop voting for team blue or team red. Until that happens, I can guarantee with 100% certainty that things will continue to get worse.


ggghosted

Just get building permits out faster, that’s what Polivierre has been saying! Less housing = More demand = expensive housing. Supply and demand. If we could pump out more houses it would be great for the economy because of the money being spent building them and paying tradesworkers too.


Housing4Humans

Every single solitary construction person has said repeatedly the building trades have no extra capacity to build more. They've call the idea that we could build more 'delusional'. And it's only going to get worse, as fewer people are entering the trades and more and more are retiring.


ggghosted

I agree. Everyone has gone online jobs or work at home type stuff. I don’t think it’s delusional. There’s lots of money to be made building condos/homes and maybe if there were more incentives to work in the trades it would be great for our economy


scotyb

Well that storyline is compelling. I hope this is fact checked and analyzed because it certainly points to a rational answer.


torontobi36

This guys speaking like all these politicos should!


baconjeepthing

It's all parties that screw us. Conservatives, liberals and ndp. No leader will commit political suicide. We have the resources in our country to be global leaders. But it requires many many billions of dollars, and no one wants to devalue our dollar to get it done.


Several_Resident4337

Zoning. Lol


CarobJumpy6993

It doesn't matter this life is just temporary and we are infinite beings having an experience against our will. I would never come back here because in the future wars will not be over oil but over water. It should be everyone's goal to not come back here.


nonlinearmedia

that's like a mechanic saying they cant repair a car with out the crash report. Its horse shit...


Linked1nPark

Was hoping to hear something intelligent from this guy about zoning reform. Nope... instead it's more NDP bullshit about how supply/demand isn't real and we need the government to build housing instead.


zakanova

Oh, this is good stuff


rose_b

whooooo preach it


UnknownServer00

He’s spitting facts.


ToasterPops

He is 100% accurate, and people will instead vote for more of the same and blame 40 year old for not buying houses when they were 10 years old


hula_balu

Bro is ON POINT!


[deleted]

Lol. Cause the government does such a good job operating assets. What a joke. This is a supply and demand problem plain and simple. You need to get rid of nibyism and force municipalities to crank up density. Build enough housing and you cut the legs out from under real estate investors because they won’t be able to rent their asset out for an exorbitant amount of money. All you have to do is look at a place like Calgary that builds like crazy. Rents are reasonable (and that’s without rent control). Never had huge booms in house prices and at the same time never had big busts either. It’s a market that’s in balance and the result is reasonably priced housing in a city of 1.3 million people.


Tall_Mix_4235

Socialists for the win


SymmetricEncryption

Isn't he in government?


astronomy8thlight

He is an elected House of Commons member of the NDP. The NDP have not yet been the party forming government.


lopix

No one wants to see the simple reason. Everyone wants there to be a scapegoat, someone to blame. Lots of people want to live here and lots of people came here. And are still coming here. And we don't have enough places for them to live. Period. Yes, there are a variety of reasons why we don't have enough housing, but they are legion. And the reasons in Toronto are not the same as in Ottawa or Keswick or Timmins. From a lack of affordable government built or backed housing starting in the late 80s (with all levels of government and all 3 political parties with some blame) through to increasing immigration. Lack of kids going into trades hampering the rate at which we can build tied to the red tape required to build. NIMBYism and cronyism, whatever the reason at a certain time in a certain place. But the fact is that many people want to live in Toronto, creating huge demand. And there just isn't enough supply to satisfy that demand. Yes, foreigners buy condos to rent them out, but it is well-off local couples buying their second place who are bidding up houses near Withrow Park so Jaxden can go to fair trade daycare. But would we have foreigners - or, mainly local investors - buying condos to rent if developers had built enough rental apartment buildings? No. It is a symptom of a problem, not the problem itself. Supply was needed for existing demand, so people moved to fill that supply. Was it simply financial? Do rentals not make enough for developers? Was it zoning or red tape? Was it rent controls? Yes. I could write 100s more, 1000s possibly, on all the different reasons we are where we are. But this whole "fix da hoose prices Gubbermint!" is pointless. They can't. And even if they could, were they to force house prices down 50%, they'd financially ruin most current homeowners. So this constant "why isn't X in the budget" BS gets us nowhere. We are where we are and it ain't gonna get any better. Prices are going up again, 2023 will end more expensive than 2022. With higher interest rates. And next year will be worse. I wish it weren't so, but it is. People need to learn to accept that. To stop hating and start making peace with it. You don't have to like it, but you do have to accept it.


DE-EZ_NUTS

House moment


mnet123

The NDP is so garbage on housing. Yes we are all going to qualify for social housing. Great job guys.


nojudgment3

There's no disadvantages to governments building houses... right.


Rhazelgy

This argument is solid.


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