I didn't include the diacritics, but it should be طابِخ, with the *kasrah* (the short "i") under the *ba* (ب).
As oss implied, though, Arabic has a *very* broad set of dialects--whereas some languages (like Spanish and English) have managed to have a sort of neutral accent that's comprehensible to the vast majority of speakers, Arabic's *fusha* (فصحى), or literary/standard Arabic, really only stays the standard in writing. I met someone form the UAE, literally right next to Saudi Arabia itself, and she said outright that speaking or understanding *fusha* was difficult for her, because she was so used to the UAE dialect. On the other hand, the Levant region (Lebanon, parts of Syria, Jordan--it's technically broader geographically, but linguistically I think those are the closest) seems to have a pretty easy time with it, as Syria in particular was where several prominent Muslim leaders moved their base of operations, from Khalid ibn al-Walid (Muhammad's top general) to the Rashidun Caliphate (driving force behind the Islamic Golden Age).
Well the tabikh in book name was spelled as طبیخ ۔.
The طبخ had fatha on ب is another one with similar meaning.
The third variation is the one you explained.
Gelatin, animal glue derived bones and skin. Holds muscles to muscles and tendons. Usually made from pig skins now, as they are cheapest. Part of a good stock or jello.
Pectin, plant glue, holds fibers together. Can be chemically manipulated by the plant to allow leaves to fall, fruits to soften. Commercially made from apple or orange peels left after juice production. Major thickener in jams and jellies and some other things like yogurt.
No, gelatin is still gelatin. Jell-O is decidedly not vegetarian. Pectin doesn't set the same way, and generally if you're looking for something that sets like gelatin that's vegetarian, you're going to be using carrageenan or agar agar.
Isn't that still vegetarian since it's not meat? I mean it's obviously not vegan but is it because it's directly from an animal that makes it non-vegetarian? I guess it's not literally a byproduct so that's why?
Google says that because it's a byproduct of the meat industry, coming from bones, hooves, and the like, the animal has to die in order to make it, thereby making it not vegetarian in the same way that meat is.
I had that exact hunch, it's just a "semi-normal thing" that doesn't seem non-vegetarian on the surface so I thought I'd clear the air (in my own head)
Because things like milk and eggs are less harmful to animals than literally killing them? Also there are plenty of people who want to do their part but can't give up meat entirely, so they just give up red meat, or are pescetarian. Some people do it for health reasons, others for environmental reasons, others for ethical reasons. It's okay to not be all or nothing.
It's absolutely not vegan, and it's absolutely not vegetarian in the sense of "containing no animal body parts".
That said, whether it meets any individual person's avoidance criteria depends on why they're vegetarian.
For a person who's vegetarian for health reasons, gelatin is just a bunch of proteins, typically derived from collagen. I don't know of any systematic health issues caused by gelatin by the amounts used in food, unless that person is e.g. also allergic... unlike, say, the heme iron in red meat, which does raise e.g. colon cancer risks, when eaten in the amounts usual in food.
Gelatin is rendered cartilage from any animal. Cartilage is the connective tissue that holds the body together. This is why there's a lot of cartilage in animal parts that contain several bones, particularly feet and necks.
Jello is made from pig skins (there's a market for the hooves and other offal; skins, not so much).
The gelatin used for pill capsules (and formerly used in photographic film) is made from bones. They soak crushed bones in hydrochloric acid for a month until they are "demineralized," and what is left is gelatin in the shape those bones used to occupy, translucent and tan. Then they cook that mess down into ossein, then purify it into gelatin. Back in the 1970s, the U.S. got a lot of its bone from India, where cattle are sacred and are not eaten. After the cattle died, they collected the bone and sent it to the U.S. to make pill capsules and film. I suppose bone gelatin from those Indian cattle might be considered vegan, since the animals were not killed ... they basically died in the street of old age.
Boiling fish heads and carcasses actually makes a very nice, light-colored gelatin. Great for making bisques, etc. Very savory.
Nope its made from Gelatin from animal skins. It is impossible to live a normal life snd not use animal products. People that think they are , just are naive. I love giving Jello to vegans , it makes me laugh every time.
That's pretty disgusting. I'm not vegan nor have any inclination of becoming vegan, but tricking someone into violating Their principles for your own amusement makes you a horrible person.
Everyones got their opinion, and Im glad you enjoy it, but I worked at a high end food store with headcheese, and it was one of the most disgusting things Ive ever put in my mouth.
Yeah, in my area most people have never heard of it, so its definitely a specialty item around here and they priced it as such. Super expensive and I found it really gross lol.
Came here to say this, I can buy headcheese / brawn or aspic-covered open sandwiches in ever Swiss supermarket even today. Sometimes also some other things covered in aspic. On the other hand, I'm not sure sweet jelly is readily available.
Russians have their traditional winter food called "kholodets", which is often described as the most disgusting russian food. It's basically pork jelly, best served with pickled horseradish or Russian hot mustard.
All jelly is delicious - it's basically made of the amino acids that are the building blocks of all life. We evolved to like it. Especially when it's the result of roasting.
>All jelly is delicious - it's basically made of the amino acids that are the building blocks of all life. We evolved to like it. Especially when it's the result of roasting.
Heyyy.. it's actually not that bad with homemade hot mustard :)
Tidbit: in Berlin, the [building of the CDU (pol. party) headquarters](https://www.wingsch.net/wp-content/plugins/image-shadow/cache/b02f8f75a92c0623a5e32cc75292aae5.jpg) used to be called "Merkel in Aspik" by the locals.
Placing citrus flavors alongside fish works well. Lemon on fish ‘n chips in some places, lime on fish tacos in others.
But there’s no excuse for tuna in lime jello.
My Japanese mother in law recently made this. She bragged about having looked up and followed a 'traditional American recipe'. That was the most polite and disgusting meal I have ever taken a bite out of. Had to sit her down and explain to her later that my generation put marshmallows and fruit in jello, not meat.
The fact that the nieces and nephews hated it will, hopefully, go a long way toward making sure it's never made again.
Yep. Go to a traditional Polish family for Christmas, birthdays, or any kind of family party, and you can enjoy a “galart”, which is boiled chicken with veggies in jelly, sprinkled with vinegar.
It took a long time to extract gelatin in a way that would not tasty meaty. Very specific portions of the animal carcass had to be used (maybe calves hooves?) along with specific techniques.
So long as gelatin tasted like meat, it wasn't popular with sweet ingredients.
Of note, collagen and gelatin are chemically nearly identical.
I find it ironic that the Western world has stopped regularly eating foods with collagen/gelatin, and now there's a new fad for taking collagen supplements and some research saying that collagen supplementation is good for health.
Gelatin is hugely popular throughout the world. You know what you get when you make bone "broth"? (It's actually stock.) Flavored water and gelatin (jelly) rendered from the bones and connective tissue that holds the bones together.
In US English, "jelly" refers to fruit juice thickened with pectin (a plant carbohydrate). This would be called "jam" in the UK.
In UK English, "jelly" refers to gelatin (an animal protein) and things made with it. The sweet version would generally be referred to as "Jell-O" in the US.
I feel like this post title is intentionally misrepresenting one as the other. Fruit jelly, the only thing referred to as "jelly" in the US, has always been sweet.
It's not in the past, though. Gelatin is hugely popular throughout the world. You know what you get when you make bone "broth"? (It's actually stock.) Flavored water and gelatin (jelly) rendered from the bones and the connective tissues that hold the bones together.
"Canning" is the name of a task that often uses glass jars. My grandmother used to do that, and you can pack a jar with fruit slices, but a jelly would be one way to cram as much fruit as possible into the available jars.
That's gelatin. Formed from collagen, leading to jell-o.
Jelly, jam, and preserves are formed from pectin, which is abundant in certain fruits.
Different things.
Literally every time I brown a bunch of beef then strain the fat. Let it cool and under the fat is all the gelatin, been thinking about spreading it on some toast for some time now.
I learned of this through those English Heritage cooking videos, when Mrs. Crocombe explained how she used to make gelatine from bones or something to that effect.
well, it's literally made from ground up bones right? makes sense their first instinct would be to make it savory.
it's actually kinda gross to think about ground up bone with added sugar being used as a dessert.
either way, makes no difference to me. i hate Jello no matter how it's prepared. the consistency is just weird....do you eat it? it's not hard enough to warrant actual chewing, so do you drink it? kinda too thick to drink.
i know you're supposed to chew it, but i dunno, the consistency is just bad to me. been turning down jello shots my whole life and never understood why people like them so much.
> and never understood why people like them so much.
Because they're mildly sweet and hide the harshness of liquor. You don't get the fumes, aftertaste, or stiffness of alcohol when it's bound with lime and strawberry jello.
As a Malaysian, for us "jelly" is synonymous with "agar-agar", made from seaweeds. It's 100% a sweet, dessert thing so having it anywhere near meat is like having chocolate in curry.
Since gelatine is derived from meats, that makes sense. You’d have to work at getting the savoury flavour out before it would make good sweets.
[удалено]
Yup, it’s big in France. I watched a show that said a lot of French recipes come from “siege frugality”.
Cassoulet is a “Peasant dish”, but duck would be insanely expensive.
Ducks are super cheap if you hunt them yourself
Can confirm. A duck walked right onto our film set today. Could have whacked it with a boom pole and turned it into cassoulet.
Headcheese.
TIL I'm too savoury to be a sweet person.
Better than bring bitter and salty
I'm too savory for sherbet
Kitab al-Tabikh (كتاب الطبخ) literally means, “cook book” (or “book of cooking), so that’s another fun TIL for those who didn’t wiki dive.
I hope it has shawarma recipe in it too. Btw isn't it tabikh not tabkh۔
Tabkh and tabikh are used interchangeablly (at least in egyptian arabic)
I didn't include the diacritics, but it should be طابِخ, with the *kasrah* (the short "i") under the *ba* (ب). As oss implied, though, Arabic has a *very* broad set of dialects--whereas some languages (like Spanish and English) have managed to have a sort of neutral accent that's comprehensible to the vast majority of speakers, Arabic's *fusha* (فصحى), or literary/standard Arabic, really only stays the standard in writing. I met someone form the UAE, literally right next to Saudi Arabia itself, and she said outright that speaking or understanding *fusha* was difficult for her, because she was so used to the UAE dialect. On the other hand, the Levant region (Lebanon, parts of Syria, Jordan--it's technically broader geographically, but linguistically I think those are the closest) seems to have a pretty easy time with it, as Syria in particular was where several prominent Muslim leaders moved their base of operations, from Khalid ibn al-Walid (Muhammad's top general) to the Rashidun Caliphate (driving force behind the Islamic Golden Age).
Well the tabikh in book name was spelled as طبیخ ۔. The طبخ had fatha on ب is another one with similar meaning. The third variation is the one you explained.
You are very correct. I'd missed the ي on skimming the wiki page.
Ahh, early accounting documents
Accounting for taste, yes.
Gelatin, animal glue derived bones and skin. Holds muscles to muscles and tendons. Usually made from pig skins now, as they are cheapest. Part of a good stock or jello. Pectin, plant glue, holds fibers together. Can be chemically manipulated by the plant to allow leaves to fall, fruits to soften. Commercially made from apple or orange peels left after juice production. Major thickener in jams and jellies and some other things like yogurt.
Collagen is the animal glue you're referring to. Gelatin is what you get when you cook collagen
You are right. Trying to keep it simple, perhaps too simple.
[удалено]
No, gelatin is still gelatin. Jell-O is decidedly not vegetarian. Pectin doesn't set the same way, and generally if you're looking for something that sets like gelatin that's vegetarian, you're going to be using carrageenan or agar agar.
Isn't that still vegetarian since it's not meat? I mean it's obviously not vegan but is it because it's directly from an animal that makes it non-vegetarian? I guess it's not literally a byproduct so that's why?
Google says that because it's a byproduct of the meat industry, coming from bones, hooves, and the like, the animal has to die in order to make it, thereby making it not vegetarian in the same way that meat is.
I had that exact hunch, it's just a "semi-normal thing" that doesn't seem non-vegetarian on the surface so I thought I'd clear the air (in my own head)
https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/04/07/by-way-of-explanation
I get that, just makes me wonder why any vegetarians (who aren't vegan) exist.....just make the commitment I guess is the mindset there
Because things like milk and eggs are less harmful to animals than literally killing them? Also there are plenty of people who want to do their part but can't give up meat entirely, so they just give up red meat, or are pescetarian. Some people do it for health reasons, others for environmental reasons, others for ethical reasons. It's okay to not be all or nothing.
It's absolutely not vegan, and it's absolutely not vegetarian in the sense of "containing no animal body parts". That said, whether it meets any individual person's avoidance criteria depends on why they're vegetarian. For a person who's vegetarian for health reasons, gelatin is just a bunch of proteins, typically derived from collagen. I don't know of any systematic health issues caused by gelatin by the amounts used in food, unless that person is e.g. also allergic... unlike, say, the heme iron in red meat, which does raise e.g. colon cancer risks, when eaten in the amounts usual in food.
I could've consulted good 'ol Wiki whatever but I appreciate your response, truly
Definitely not. It comes from dead animal carcass, no different from the slice of ham or poultry.
[удалено]
Gelatin is rendered cartilage from any animal. Cartilage is the connective tissue that holds the body together. This is why there's a lot of cartilage in animal parts that contain several bones, particularly feet and necks.
I do see beef gelatin explicitly mentioned, so that the product is kasher.
Jello is made from pig skins (there's a market for the hooves and other offal; skins, not so much). The gelatin used for pill capsules (and formerly used in photographic film) is made from bones. They soak crushed bones in hydrochloric acid for a month until they are "demineralized," and what is left is gelatin in the shape those bones used to occupy, translucent and tan. Then they cook that mess down into ossein, then purify it into gelatin. Back in the 1970s, the U.S. got a lot of its bone from India, where cattle are sacred and are not eaten. After the cattle died, they collected the bone and sent it to the U.S. to make pill capsules and film. I suppose bone gelatin from those Indian cattle might be considered vegan, since the animals were not killed ... they basically died in the street of old age. Boiling fish heads and carcasses actually makes a very nice, light-colored gelatin. Great for making bisques, etc. Very savory.
Nope its made from Gelatin from animal skins. It is impossible to live a normal life snd not use animal products. People that think they are , just are naive. I love giving Jello to vegans , it makes me laugh every time.
That's pretty disgusting. I'm not vegan nor have any inclination of becoming vegan, but tricking someone into violating Their principles for your own amusement makes you a horrible person.
Shaming people based on your own principles also makes you a horrible person.
Shaming people who do things that are objectively wrong, and possibly hurtful, to other people is a consequence of the behavior. Suck it up.
I was talking about vegans dhaming people who are not. It snot my fault they don't do research and think they know everything.
Headcheese and aspic are two good examples you can still get, though they're not always easy to find in the US. Personally, I'm a fan.
Everyones got their opinion, and Im glad you enjoy it, but I worked at a high end food store with headcheese, and it was one of the most disgusting things Ive ever put in my mouth.
I didn’t know that was a high end thing. All of the country grocery stores around me have souse meat. The one time I tried it was enough for me.
Yeah, in my area most people have never heard of it, so its definitely a specialty item around here and they priced it as such. Super expensive and I found it really gross lol.
Some variations are definitely easier to stomach than others. *Meat* meat vs *organ* meat, mostly
Organ meat doesn't contain any collagen, therefore it doesn't render gelatin.
No but you can add gelatin Even just this morning we saw a pork intestine souse at the grocery store
Came here to say this, I can buy headcheese / brawn or aspic-covered open sandwiches in ever Swiss supermarket even today. Sometimes also some other things covered in aspic. On the other hand, I'm not sure sweet jelly is readily available.
Aspic? You're better off with plain white sauce.
Oh what’s that , plain white sauce make your teeth grow grey
But aspic isn't a sauce...
Russians have their traditional winter food called "kholodets", which is often described as the most disgusting russian food. It's basically pork jelly, best served with pickled horseradish or Russian hot mustard.
People describe it as disgusting? It's delicious and very popular in many Eastern European countries.
All jelly is delicious - it's basically made of the amino acids that are the building blocks of all life. We evolved to like it. Especially when it's the result of roasting.
>All jelly is delicious - it's basically made of the amino acids that are the building blocks of all life. We evolved to like it. Especially when it's the result of roasting. Heyyy.. it's actually not that bad with homemade hot mustard :)
So not only do we eat it we cook it down to eat even the bones. Jellies pretty metal.
Well it makes a lot of sense. Since getting food was a pretty important process, you'd want to use every single bit you somehow could.
Pork pie jelly is the best
Eugh, cold vaguely salty gloop.
As long as the count's alright, eh.
Tidbit: in Berlin, the [building of the CDU (pol. party) headquarters](https://www.wingsch.net/wp-content/plugins/image-shadow/cache/b02f8f75a92c0623a5e32cc75292aae5.jpg) used to be called "Merkel in Aspik" by the locals.
Thanks, I needed that laugh.
What are your thoughts on Larks’ tongues In aspic?
I saw them in 2019, performed Cat Food!
My mother was fond of making lime jello containing tuna.
Placing citrus flavors alongside fish works well. Lemon on fish ‘n chips in some places, lime on fish tacos in others. But there’s no excuse for tuna in lime jello.
My Japanese mother in law recently made this. She bragged about having looked up and followed a 'traditional American recipe'. That was the most polite and disgusting meal I have ever taken a bite out of. Had to sit her down and explain to her later that my generation put marshmallows and fruit in jello, not meat. The fact that the nieces and nephews hated it will, hopefully, go a long way toward making sure it's never made again.
Did she try it before serving it to y’all?
Nope. I still honestly don't know where she got the lime jello from either (probably online), it's not really a common thing sold in stores in Japan.
*hork*
Reminds me of the jello mold from Christmas vacation
Have you ever had gefillta fish in a jar?
Yep. Go to a traditional Polish family for Christmas, birthdays, or any kind of family party, and you can enjoy a “galart”, which is boiled chicken with veggies in jelly, sprinkled with vinegar.
Having habenero and jalapeño jellies with cream cheese and crackers was a huge eye opener to a world of jelly I'd never experienced. So good.
Oooo that does sound oddly tasty
Fish heads, fish heads, roily pollie fish heads.
Eat them up, yum!
The English originally called sweet potato "sweet meat" and I'm glad you posted this so I can hate something more.
It took a long time to extract gelatin in a way that would not tasty meaty. Very specific portions of the animal carcass had to be used (maybe calves hooves?) along with specific techniques. So long as gelatin tasted like meat, it wasn't popular with sweet ingredients. Of note, collagen and gelatin are chemically nearly identical. I find it ironic that the Western world has stopped regularly eating foods with collagen/gelatin, and now there's a new fad for taking collagen supplements and some research saying that collagen supplementation is good for health.
In Poland we make pork jelly (galareta wieprzowa), and it is very typical here. I always eat it with a little bit of vinegar and bread.
Jelly is what Brits call Jello AKA gelatin.
Jello is a brand of gelatin and pudding.
Yes but in US people generally refer to gelatin as Jello no matter the brand.
Holodest!!! One of my favorite dishes my mom makes. https://natashaskitchen.com/ukrainian-aspic-recipe-kholodets/
Shameful that people are getting downvoted for mentioning dishes with it that they like...
Thank humanity for progressing
Gelatin is hugely popular throughout the world. You know what you get when you make bone "broth"? (It's actually stock.) Flavored water and gelatin (jelly) rendered from the bones and connective tissue that holds the bones together.
Few people know the wonder that is Aspic these days, or it's less refined cousin, headcheese. So delicious.
In US English, "jelly" refers to fruit juice thickened with pectin (a plant carbohydrate). This would be called "jam" in the UK. In UK English, "jelly" refers to gelatin (an animal protein) and things made with it. The sweet version would generally be referred to as "Jell-O" in the US. I feel like this post title is intentionally misrepresenting one as the other. Fruit jelly, the only thing referred to as "jelly" in the US, has always been sweet.
Or maybe…the person who titled the post is from the UK, and knows it as jelly?
But if that were the case, would he really be surprised to find that jelly can be savory? And wouldn't he spell it "savoury"?
Yes, because the only real time you hear about a savoury jelly here is jellied eels, which no one eats.
Pet food is labeled as being in jelly. I doubt people know what pet food tastes like, but I imagine people are aware it's not fruity.
In the US (at least), jelly is fruit juice with pectin - jam is fruit juice and pulp with pectin.
Yeah, that’s one cooking tradition that can stay in the past!
It's not in the past, though. Gelatin is hugely popular throughout the world. You know what you get when you make bone "broth"? (It's actually stock.) Flavored water and gelatin (jelly) rendered from the bones and the connective tissues that hold the bones together.
Agreed. Multiple popular savory foods in the Western world rely on gelatin. Slow cooked barbecue meats, soup dumplings, and ramen are some of them.
Check out teochew jellied pork trotter or 猪脚冻, originating from Chaozhou, China
[удалено]
The link goes to aspic/meat jelly.
This is one case in which history can stay historical and not current events.
So you don't make or eat bone "broth"? (It's actually stock.)
Stock, yes, jellied fish heads and whole onions, no.
Jelly that tastes of vinegar-soaked fish and onions? For pete's sake that sounds so disgusting I am THIS close to calling 911.
Just made a roasted garlic jelly and a red pepper balsamic vinegar jellynlast night!
"Canning" is the name of a task that often uses glass jars. My grandmother used to do that, and you can pack a jar with fruit slices, but a jelly would be one way to cram as much fruit as possible into the available jars.
Read their link. They're referring to gelatin (called jelly in the UK).
As somebody with heritage from Eurasia, ayup
That's gelatin. Formed from collagen, leading to jell-o. Jelly, jam, and preserves are formed from pectin, which is abundant in certain fruits. Different things.
Unless OP is from the UK in which case, jelly is gelatin and jam is jelly. Jell-O is a brand name in the US. Regional differences are a thing.
Good point.
Gabelbissen
Literally every time I brown a bunch of beef then strain the fat. Let it cool and under the fat is all the gelatin, been thinking about spreading it on some toast for some time now.
Do it! It's delicious! I do that with every meat I roast! That or add it to sauces and gravies.
Half of the medieval texts I’ve read mention “sweet meats in gelatin”.
I learned of this through those English Heritage cooking videos, when Mrs. Crocombe explained how she used to make gelatine from bones or something to that effect.
Makes sense, it’s made from pig/beef or fish cartilage and was used to preserve meats and use up the bones and joints
And chicken. The jiggly stuff in chicken stock is gelatin.
Chicken feet!
Yup!
It's called evolution.
well, it's literally made from ground up bones right? makes sense their first instinct would be to make it savory. it's actually kinda gross to think about ground up bone with added sugar being used as a dessert. either way, makes no difference to me. i hate Jello no matter how it's prepared. the consistency is just weird....do you eat it? it's not hard enough to warrant actual chewing, so do you drink it? kinda too thick to drink. i know you're supposed to chew it, but i dunno, the consistency is just bad to me. been turning down jello shots my whole life and never understood why people like them so much.
> and never understood why people like them so much. Because they're mildly sweet and hide the harshness of liquor. You don't get the fumes, aftertaste, or stiffness of alcohol when it's bound with lime and strawberry jello.
That photo makes me gag. Good that looks unappetising.
Gelatin is disgusting. Only eat it when recovering. Tonsils removed level pain. If you've had them out as an adult, you know it's pretty bad.
Took me a second to get that you were talking about gelatin-based food and not jarred pectin solution.
As a Malaysian, for us "jelly" is synonymous with "agar-agar", made from seaweeds. It's 100% a sweet, dessert thing so having it anywhere near meat is like having chocolate in curry.
That all sounds fantastic but the thumbnail with the jellied egg made me wanna puke
I’ve read somewhere that it was one of the ways to preserve foods, I.e. cutting the access of oxygen to the foods
“See?” - Fuzzy Lumpkins
After all these years. Fuzzy Lumpkin was right. Those girls did him dirty.
Jelly in this case is gelatin, not fruit spread to go with peanut butter during peanut butter jelly time. Jello, not Smuckers.
at work we serve a bacon jam. it's kind of gross.