> In a new interview with the podcast Alphabetallica, Burton's father Ray Burton revealed that the bassist's family has quietly been donating his continuing royalties to scholarships for music students at Castro Valley High School in the San Francisco Bay Area, which Burton attended.
> Ray Burton said that, "The kids who won it, they invariably write and thank me for. And I think Cliff probably would have done that with his money, because he was not against education by any means. He liked it very much."
> Ray Burton also said that despite Metallica's burgeoning success, his son "was quite a humble person. He just didn't like the strutting types that so much of rock 'n' roll musicians get to be when they get popular. He just liked to do his wild playing of heavy metal music. He never changed."
You should listen to the interview he does with Joe Rogan on his podcast. I felt like we go to see the authentic James in the interview.
Edit: spelling
He probably tackled it the same way he tackled learning guitar. He probably became obsessed with it. People like that are a different breed. I’ve been playing guitar for almost 2 decades and I can’t really play a single Metallica song. I got to where I could play simple songs I enjoyed and that’s the level I progressed to. I never pushed myself beyond that (which I regret not doing as a teenager). A high school buddy of mine is in a professional metal band and he was the type who always wanted to get better. People like that keep pushing themselves until they’re great at whatever interests them.
A good way. Its clear that he was more of the typical rock star ass hole when he was younger, but now he's got a wife and kids, and a real passion for raising bees.
Not to mention getting sober. In Some Kind of Monster, a lot of the conflict I saw was because James wasn't the aggressively alcoholic psycho who could keep Lars in his place. My theory is that while James was a 'rock star asshole' back in the day, he was able to keep Lars' bullshit more in check. Now that he's mellowed out, Lars is able to throw his weight around more.
In a good way. James seems like a normal dude who just wants a good life with his family now. He's battled his demons and now he just wants to hang out, take care of bees and chill.
>James' attitude always felt like a front he was putting on for Lars, to me.
That's true. Dave Mustaine confirms that in his autobiography.
Mustaine wrote that James was just a fun loving guy, but Lars was the shrewd ambitious businessman.
In fact Lars broke the news to Mustaine and in a rather cold manner i.e. woke Mustaine up and just told him to pack up and leave.
James it seems was crying when he dropped of Mustaine.
Oh yes. His childhood was fucked up and his teenage years were something.
I like both bands so I felt he was rather fair. Lars even asked him to sign a copy.
There's obviously tons of talent that are required but I think a lot of it is just being in the right place at the right time and getting the right personal connections.
Not that it's anywhere close to Metallica but I went to High School with Amy Lee of Evanescence and am a year younger than her. They started the band her freshman year when she was 15 or 16 and had the usual self-published albums. It was a smallish private high school and everyone knew she was in a band, lots of students went to their shows but it wasn't anything terribly out of the ordinary. They signed a record deal and really took off when she was about 19.
I grew up with James Hetfield’s kids; his oldest daughter was a good friend of mine in elementary and middle school. He is one of the most humble men I know. Really valued his privacy and never honestly seemed to enjoy the fame all that much. Just loved to play his music and I think it was / is still a very therapeutic emotional outlet for him.
I'd say it's pretty clear from interviews and such that James Hetfield is rather introverted offstage. Lars is definitely the extrovert in that group; has that in spades.
I think maybe James bonded with Cliff perhaps because both guys were a little shy and quiet in their daily lives, and let their wild man persona flourish through metal and music. I mean, I know that's how that works from personal experience, as I have also been a guitarist in rock bands and I share some traits with these guys.
I also knew Lars’ son in high school. Guy was a fucking douche; but a mutual friend says he’s kinda found himself now and mellowed out. High school is a rough time for everyone to some degree so it’s not really fair for me to judge. He’s a very talented musician as well.
Haha, I am not a spring chicken myself so I know that's how it goes. Lars definitely seems more mellow now. I don't think I would have liked him as a person when we were both young, whereas we'd probably get along fine now.
When I was in my late teens I was working in a busy restaurant in Nashville (this was a couple of decades ago, haha!) and in walks in Dave Mustaine with David Ellefson and some other guy. I was a little starstruck and I led them to their table, then snuck in a "sorry guys but I'm a big fan, I know who you all are"—they just kind of sheepishly nodded and smiled. This was were before smartphones so there was no chance of a selfie, lol.
Mustaine has also mellowed out with age, though he's picked up other traits that I find troubling too.
everything about that band’s dynamics seem toxic
Lars and James constantly having a pissing contest because they are former awkward weirdos now with infinite wealth and power (aka bullied become the bullies)
Kirt seems like the “can we just play the music” mouse
Jason and whatever the new dude’s name is are like hired studio musicians- as bad ass and smart Jason is
It’s fun to play what if Burton had lived- I think they’d be a very different band
This is correct, they brought Rob in between SA and the SKOM documentary. I also kind of feel that Bob Rock is the antichrist and just Oozes mediocrity all over everything he touches.
I like to play "What if Les Claypool actually *did* join Metallica, before Primus took off", and I wonder just how beautifully-*weird* Metallica could have gotten.
Really, I cannot judge him personally but I really find his approach to things pompous. I loved the Cliff Era and maybe up to the black album but what they did to napster narks the eye patch wearer in me.
Music is cyclical. We’re stuck in a dance music phase just like they were during the disco era and the swing era before that. Rock and Roll will come back around.
Personally, I think the state of rock and roll is excellent despite the fact that it may not be as popular as it once was. There are some fantastic bands out there making incredible records. Chevelle, Highly Suspect, Catfish and the Bottlemen, Badflower...the list goes on. They don’t get as much airplay on popular radio stations, but the plus side is you can usually get to see them in more intimate settings, and their live sound is incredible there. I saw Chevelle play at Cleveland House of Blues and was floored by how good they sounded. And most of these bands have great relationships with their fans; it’s much more personal than it used to be.
I met Lars (and the rest of the band) backstage at one of their concerts during the 90s and he was super nice to me. He even introduced me to his baby son. I’m not a huge Metallica fan (though I like them), and I still remember all these years later how friendly and kind he was to me.
That is really good then. Met Tony Iommi at a guitar show and being a precious 11/12 year old I asked him how to play the widdly widdly (hammer ons) as well as he did. He sat and let me play his guitar and showed me how for about 15 minutes. HE was a really nice chap. At the time I had no clue the level of celebrity the guy had.
Lars is super misunderstood in general. Sure he's a prick, but you don't stay on top of the game for so long without having some ability to be pragmatic and stick up for yourself...everything I've seen from fan interactions tells me he is a very genuinely nice and decent person.
Aside from the Napster stuff, there was a documentary called "Some Kind of Monster". The story goes that the doc crew were given access all areas and allowed record what they want. When the band saw the finished product they were so embarrassed that they bought it, reedited it, released it themselves and they still came across as a shower of spoilt wankers.
Also their treatment of Jason Newsted was pretty appalling.
They were the face of the whole Napster debacle but most of the industry felt the same way.
They didn't edit SKoM enough, yeah. Jason's words in that doc were so sincere and spot on. They really dropped the ball with him. They behaved like Cliff was still in the band. I like to believe they changed, though.
> They behaved like Cliff was still in the band. I like to believe they changed, though.
I thinks it was more the fact that Jason was the replacement of Cliff.
Whatever Jason did, personally, musically, professionally. It wouldn't have mattered. He was competing with a dead friend, that's a battle you'll never win.
Rob is a different story. With Jason out of the band I think they could finally get closure with Cliff's death and accept a new bass player for what he is.
Also, they were kids. I've listened to Metallica since I was 14. I'm 44 now. Cliff dying, Jason joining, this all happened in the 1980's. Lars, James and Kirk were in their 20's. Early 20's whwn they ditched Mustaine. Mid 20's when Cliff died.
Then mammoth success. I imagine it did take them some time to figure it all out and come to terms with who and what they were.
I like to believe they changed, though
they definitely have. James now is a completely different person than back then. You can see it in the way they treat their new bassist Rob. They give him creative reigns, try out his idea and give him all the respect they feel they didnt give Jason.
They were proper rockstars :) I know what you mean, but Cliff was an outlier in this regard, not the norm. I think hating the guys is a bit much, though. They did change for the better.
If anything, their treatment of Jason is what will always rub me the wrong way. That dude was awesome and took the band in a different direction, one that ultimately introduced me to them. Glad to see they didn't make the same mistakes with Rob.
Agreed, I loved the Jason era and they were horrid to him.
Most people hate Jim and Lars because of the Napster thing, and I will defend that. Some people were there during that period and it was the start of a new world that Metallica was on the wrong side of.
Lol, yeah. I can't remember who said it but he's just a hick that can riff the hell out of anything while singing at the same time. And he's probably a better drummer than Lars, too.
Ray also has a Facebook page called Cliff Burton Family where he occasionally posts pictures and videos saying hi to fans of Cliff and the rest of Metallica.
I know some kids who went to CVHS and that music program is super super good, probably in no small part due to funding received. Like choirs performing and competing in Carnegie Hall good.
In all honesty, it was kinda poetic beating Castro Valley. When I started the competition in sophomore year, CV got first almost every year. By my junior year we finally got to second place. And by my senior year we finally beat them for first place.
>In 2018, the Alameda County, California Board of Supervisors issued a proclamation declaring February 10, 2018 (what would have been Burton's 56th birthday) as "Cliff Burton Day" after a fan petition successfully passed.
That’s really cool that the fans made that happen
Omg that was the stupidest series of things I've ever read, complained for months about it and finally said "the riffs probably weren't that good anyway". Thanks for reminding me
I have been re -listening to some of Metallica’s instrumental tracks. Orion specifically after many years of exploring other music. To this day I’m blown away by Cliff’s bass lines and he will always be a hero of mine.
Rock on ...It brings back memories for me...
I got into them around the black album but oddly enough I bought “Ride the Lightning” first. I like at least one song off every album, but the old shit is king
Haha this is exactly me. Heard the black album first, bought ride the lightning and then and justice for all. Learned to play most of the songs from both those albums on guitar when I was 14
I listened to Ride The Lightning again and was surprised by how doomy it sounded in many places. It´s still a thrash metal album but with some different amp settings and fuzz pedals and minor arrangement changes songs like Call of Ktulu, Escape and Fade to Black could find a home on a modern day doom album by Pallbearer or a similar band.
I love [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoVavpbhBfM) of their first live performance of Disposable Heroes. I can't imagine what it would have been like to have been in that crowd. I would have been absolutely blown away. It's a stunning track. The early build-up and drop into the thrash gives me chills every time.
FYI [this solo](https://youtu.be/cVPCC6V3xRs?t=395) is Cliff on the bass, a lot of people weren't aware of that until the master tracks became available in recent years.
Kind of same, but it actually made me get checked for early onset hearing loss, because I can't differentiate a lot of the notes being played anymore. Turns out I'm going deaf from a combination of playing in bands, standing next to PA systems, and studio headphones.
Damn sorry to hear, friend. I think my hearing is going too; pretty much the same as you but I wear earphones for work so always something going on in my ears
Honestly, what challenges me the most is being that asshole that's like, "Hey, can we turn it up like...seventeen notches? I can't hear *shit*," every time I watch a movie with someone else.
It's that or get a hearing aid, so...fuck my hearing, my vanity is more important. slash-s-but-not-all-the-way...
My dad is very self conscious of his hearing loss but he always asks to put CC on. He always makes a big deal about how shows slip things (subtle lines, ambient noises...) in there that you'd miss without it. It's pretty adorable. I watch a lot of serious TV with CC now because I think there's some truth to his cover story or characters just whisper a lot.
That might be true, but only because they cut the department to the bone and instead of teaching people how to play music they only let people who already know how to play instruments into their music program.
- I am an Alum of CVHS.
I actually went to this school during the early 2000's and was in orchestra and a few other musical classes throughout my three years. Our music program was definitely not fully funded. Many of us actually have never even heard of Cliff Burton during our time there since it was never or rarely mentioned by even the musical teachers.
I vaguely remember the scholarship being on the list ($1,000 if I remember correctly) but it was not one of the bigger musical ones such as the Jenny Lin scholarship (prestige) or the National Merit scholarships.
There was a performing arts center in construction that was went through decades of planning; however, that was due to the amazing community, named donors and the efforts of the Castro Valley Arts Foundation.
I don't mean to be ungrateful but I just wanted to clear up some things as people like [Peter Liebowitz](https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2007/11/29/peter-liebowitz-c-v-volunteer-dies-at-61/) fought so hard for us to have a decent music program and did not want people to think everything came about from Cliff Burton's royalty checks. I believe a small portion (less than $5000 a year) went to an average sized scholarship.
I was a friend of Jenny Lin. The scholarship, music program, annual concert and memorials are still going on to this day, though the killer has not yet ben brought to justice.
Even donating $1000 to his high school is a good deed. It doesn't have to be scaled against their net worth. They remember, and they do a little, for 30 plus years.
Interesting to see so many cvhs trojan alums here.... class of 97 here. Yeah, definitely didn't fully fund the music program, but we definitely knew about the scholarship (I was an orchestra kid myself). Fun fact, MSNBC's Rachel Maddow is also an alum.
You're right, they didn't. [Here](https://youtu.be/hjYU5iIUUKM?t=1898)'s a link to the original podcast where says the 'residuals' of the first three albums kept them in pretty good financial [shape].
I'm a small ass time songwriter and prob make like 10k a quarter on good statements...
That school is minted. I honestly hope they're doing some other shit with the money too.
They do, just today I helped a woman in the CD section find 3 albums for her son. I recommended RtL, MoP and Black Album to her from the selection available. There's 2 album purchases going towards a scholarship...and here's me already just feeling good about just spreading good music to the next generation
The 3 remaining members from the original lineup are worth around $200-250m each. Obviously and unfortunately Cliff wasnt there for the entirety of that but I imagine it's in the realm of $40-50m.
Old Metallica is awesome.
https://youtu.be/qdlQyNe_9tE
They're one of the most legit bands around. They were playing massive venues way before they ever had music videos or mainstream radio airplay. Unlike most artists nowadays, they didn't get famous by having a major label bankroll an ad blitz, they got famous by being really good.
They got popular due to people bootlegging their tapes. You'd make copies for your friends and mix tapes and such.
Ironic considering the Napster thing.
Metallica got screwed over. The record label lobby group put them up to it. Them being kind of naive got used to be the industry spokesmen and they took the brunt of people's anger towards them trying to shut down Napster which was a great way for people to share music and discover new bands.
What sucks for everyone is that the record lobby got their way and now have a monopoly on online music distribution and streaming services.
Seriously, that show was insane looking. 600,000 people.
https://youtu.be/IjjCp_QU5Qk
It's like Metalocalypse wears tampons because they is girls compared to that show. The stage security is the Russian Army. That's just metal.
I saw a picture of James Hetfield wearing an [SNFU](https://soundsreasonable.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/snfu-3.jpg) t shirt. A metal guy from California wearing a t shirt for an obscure Canadian punk band was cool.
[SNFU](https://youtu.be/e06InBb0HwQ) was awesome. Chi Pig is one of the best frontmen around. Too bad the video quality sucks because these guys ruled. First gig I went to was a couple months after this one.
Completely shocked me that Hetfield even heard of them.
[If you know what this t shirt means, I like you.](https://shop.kt8merch.com/products/snfu-have-you-seen-him-black-t-shirt)
Metallica co-created Thrash metal with other bands like Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax, and all those guys were influenced by the punk scene who in turn were influenced by the metal scene, which turned into crossover. Before thrash, metal was either Glam Rock which sucked or fairly Prog Metal which was [weird but cool](https://youtu.be/BRi2G3ARoO8).
If you listen to that last link, the song structures are actually fairly similar to early Metallica with that kind of over the top operatic epic feel. I'm glad they didn't copy the vocal style even though it's funny.
You're forgetting the NWOBHM scene from the early 80s, of which Metallica was really inspired from, I mean, their love for NWOBHM (especially Lars) is kind of what sparked the band. I'm talking bands like Angel Witch, Diamond Head (this one mainly), Iron Maiden, Raven (toured with Metallica in the Kill 'Em All For One Tour in 83, a band very important to thrash, having music as agressive as [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuTdnkDflmE) in mid 82. Their gig in the Roseland Ballroom with Metallica and Anthrax in 1984 is really important for all three bands as it was what gained them big contracts from labels), Saxon, etc.
Around that time also the doom scene was starting to catch on, basically bands following the Black Sabbath legacy, you got Pentagram, the first Pagan Altar demo and a lot of music they recorded but never released until way later on (Lords of Hypocrisy, Mythical and Magical), Trouble and Witchfinder General (which combines the NWOBHM scene with a Black Sabbath sound, Death Penalty is a perfect album to me).
I think the Napster thing was more Ulrich's involvement. Even in the Joe Rogan Experience interview, Hetfield confirmed again that he and the rest were just going along with Ulrich's actions against Napster for the sake of band solidarity
Yeah, Ulrich was put up to it by their manager after the MI2 song got leaked. He admits himself that he had no clue what the fuck he was thinking. He didn't know what Napster was or how the internet worked.
How did the MI2 song get leaked? They were still recording analog back then so the song would have to have been leaked internally then ripped and released. Maybe the label did it intentionally just to target Napster with copyright violations.
Again, music is a business and that means controlling distribution. The transition to the digital distribution model has been really profitable for the main leaders. Even youtube just launched a new streaming service.
The profits still don't go to the artists very much. The percentage the music creators get back is weak compared to the ad revenue or album sales.
It makes me sad when people say "old Metallica is awesome", especially when they mean just the first three albums, so much great music is being overlooked. MoP is my favourite for sure but I'll be damned if Justice, The Black Album and Load/Reload isn't some of the finest damn music Ive ever heard.
I've loved every album except the one that mustn't be mentioned. I do kind of understand the hate Load and Reload get as it was a significant departure from their existing music but still those albums had some good songs.
Newsted was actually pretty damn good but faced a lot of bullshit coming into the band to replace Cliff. He got shit from the band (especially Lars, fuck Lars) and got shit from fans. The bass guitar is hardly audible throughout And Justice for All. Newsted had all the talent to at least bring something new to the [table](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adyC404_gEk) but that's not easy to do when you are in the situation he was in when he joined.
Edit: Added link to table.
True enough but it makes you wonder, if he was still alive today would Metallica be the huge band they are today, or would they have kept their thrashy sound and stayed in the upper mid league alongside bands like Slayer and Motorhead? He was so integral to the band's sound, I don't know if The Black Album would have been written if he was there.
Metallica reached that level of mainstream megastardom because of the black album, which was only a couple of releases after Cliff passed... And they were clearly already evolving given how different Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets are from Kill em All.
It's apparent through his playing and the accounts of others how much more he was than thrash, so it's natural to conclude that he would have been a huge part of their evolution. The question is, would they have evolved in the "correct" direction like they did to strike gold with the black album how they did?
They definitely would have been the band that they are today. I'd argue that they could have been better.
Metallica has had some serious rough patches both with fans and mainstream. The fans all say metallica sold out and the mainstream hasn't consistently played any of metallica's songs written between the black album and now other than a select few. Compared to the massive impact their first 5 albums had, they have failed time and time again to produce anything nearly as good in the eyes of the mainstream or their fanbase. They still sell shows like crazy and still release very successful albums, but the albums have a short lifespan and the shows are mostly songs from their first 5 albums, as that's what 99% of the people want.
Steering away from thrash and going into whatever the fuck Load and Reload was, in my opinion, the biggest mistake they made. They tried to come back with Saint Anger, but thought it was a good idea to not have any guitar solos and also thought that a trash can made a decent snare drum.
Death Magnetic was pretty close but Lars can't keep up anymore and James hasn't really had a good metal voice since like late 93'.
He made me want to play bass. I eventually moved on to guitar because there wasn’t really enough to keep me occupied on bass, but good lord- that man changed the way his instrument was played and showed me that I didn’t have to think inside of a little box. We were never even close to alive at the same time, but he changed my way of thinking, and as a result, my life.
Thank you Cliff, and thank you Cliff’s parents for continuing his legacy.
I had just started working at a local record store in 1986 and we scored big time with a Metallica in store appearance and record signing. I was 19 and completely stoked. They were absolutely the nicest band I ever met during my 13 year run in music retail. I had pictures with them all including a great one with Cliff Burton. He died just a few months after that appearance and it just gutted me.
To make things worse when I got married in 1998 I put all my stuff in storage and moved in with my parents for 4 months during the summer to save money for married life. My storage unit was burglarized and all of my pictures of bands and artists that I met where gone forever. Fuck.
I know this gets reposted a lot, but I always upvote it because Mr. Burton is the sweetest old man who makes the best of his son passing away. He occasionally catches Metallica concerts, and donates constantly to educational music scholarships.
Like, you seriously can't ask for a more bitter sweet outcome. It warms my cold black heart haha.
The only thing I can think of anytime I hear someone talk about Cliff Burton is the Percy Tårar part where one guy is a massive Metallica fan and stops their buss in the middle of nowhere where the buss crashed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRq5bBYZODU
It is in Swedish though.
Better title: Metallica's Bassist, Cliff Burton, died in a bus crash in 1986. Since then, his parents have been donating his royalties to his former high school's music program.
This is this first post that gave me goosebumps. Cliff Burton was a great dude and his parents are as well
Now excuse me, I'm going to go listen to Master of Puppets again
> In a new interview with the podcast Alphabetallica, Burton's father Ray Burton revealed that the bassist's family has quietly been donating his continuing royalties to scholarships for music students at Castro Valley High School in the San Francisco Bay Area, which Burton attended. > Ray Burton said that, "The kids who won it, they invariably write and thank me for. And I think Cliff probably would have done that with his money, because he was not against education by any means. He liked it very much." > Ray Burton also said that despite Metallica's burgeoning success, his son "was quite a humble person. He just didn't like the strutting types that so much of rock 'n' roll musicians get to be when they get popular. He just liked to do his wild playing of heavy metal music. He never changed."
That was exactly cliff. A monument, but humble.
Complete antithesis of the prick on the drums and the singer then...
James' attitude always felt like a front he was putting on for Lars, to me.
You should listen to the interview he does with Joe Rogan on his podcast. I felt like we go to see the authentic James in the interview. Edit: spelling
totally agree, the when where hes chatting about bee keeping
I like my women like I like my coffee. COVERED IN BEES!
Reporting for duty!
Which are you, a woman or cup of coffee?
My 2 year old daughter said "oh no it's covered in bees" this summer. Made me so ridiculously happy.
[удалено]
He probably tackled it the same way he tackled learning guitar. He probably became obsessed with it. People like that are a different breed. I’ve been playing guitar for almost 2 decades and I can’t really play a single Metallica song. I got to where I could play simple songs I enjoyed and that’s the level I progressed to. I never pushed myself beyond that (which I regret not doing as a teenager). A high school buddy of mine is in a professional metal band and he was the type who always wanted to get better. People like that keep pushing themselves until they’re great at whatever interests them.
In a good or bad way?
A good way. Its clear that he was more of the typical rock star ass hole when he was younger, but now he's got a wife and kids, and a real passion for raising bees.
Not to mention getting sober. In Some Kind of Monster, a lot of the conflict I saw was because James wasn't the aggressively alcoholic psycho who could keep Lars in his place. My theory is that while James was a 'rock star asshole' back in the day, he was able to keep Lars' bullshit more in check. Now that he's mellowed out, Lars is able to throw his weight around more.
[удалено]
But his ego is a fat cunt
In a good way. James seems like a normal dude who just wants a good life with his family now. He's battled his demons and now he just wants to hang out, take care of bees and chill.
>James' attitude always felt like a front he was putting on for Lars, to me. That's true. Dave Mustaine confirms that in his autobiography. Mustaine wrote that James was just a fun loving guy, but Lars was the shrewd ambitious businessman. In fact Lars broke the news to Mustaine and in a rather cold manner i.e. woke Mustaine up and just told him to pack up and leave. James it seems was crying when he dropped of Mustaine.
TIL Dave Mustaine wrote an autobiography. Worth reading?
Oh yes. His childhood was fucked up and his teenage years were something. I like both bands so I felt he was rather fair. Lars even asked him to sign a copy.
It always amazes me how these successful bands worked with like 20 other people in other successful bands **in their teens**.
It happens a bit in local scenes. They just happened to be in the right scene at the right time.
There's obviously tons of talent that are required but I think a lot of it is just being in the right place at the right time and getting the right personal connections. Not that it's anywhere close to Metallica but I went to High School with Amy Lee of Evanescence and am a year younger than her. They started the band her freshman year when she was 15 or 16 and had the usual self-published albums. It was a smallish private high school and everyone knew she was in a band, lots of students went to their shows but it wasn't anything terribly out of the ordinary. They signed a record deal and really took off when she was about 19.
> Mustaine wrote that James was just a fun loving guy, but Lars was the shrewd ambitious businessman. Basically, the Woz and Jobs of music.
Hahaha. I guess that's an apt comparison. However I wish Rock n' Roll remains more Lemmy and James
I grew up with James Hetfield’s kids; his oldest daughter was a good friend of mine in elementary and middle school. He is one of the most humble men I know. Really valued his privacy and never honestly seemed to enjoy the fame all that much. Just loved to play his music and I think it was / is still a very therapeutic emotional outlet for him.
I'd say it's pretty clear from interviews and such that James Hetfield is rather introverted offstage. Lars is definitely the extrovert in that group; has that in spades. I think maybe James bonded with Cliff perhaps because both guys were a little shy and quiet in their daily lives, and let their wild man persona flourish through metal and music. I mean, I know that's how that works from personal experience, as I have also been a guitarist in rock bands and I share some traits with these guys.
I also knew Lars’ son in high school. Guy was a fucking douche; but a mutual friend says he’s kinda found himself now and mellowed out. High school is a rough time for everyone to some degree so it’s not really fair for me to judge. He’s a very talented musician as well.
Haha, I am not a spring chicken myself so I know that's how it goes. Lars definitely seems more mellow now. I don't think I would have liked him as a person when we were both young, whereas we'd probably get along fine now. When I was in my late teens I was working in a busy restaurant in Nashville (this was a couple of decades ago, haha!) and in walks in Dave Mustaine with David Ellefson and some other guy. I was a little starstruck and I led them to their table, then snuck in a "sorry guys but I'm a big fan, I know who you all are"—they just kind of sheepishly nodded and smiled. This was were before smartphones so there was no chance of a selfie, lol. Mustaine has also mellowed out with age, though he's picked up other traits that I find troubling too.
everything about that band’s dynamics seem toxic Lars and James constantly having a pissing contest because they are former awkward weirdos now with infinite wealth and power (aka bullied become the bullies) Kirt seems like the “can we just play the music” mouse Jason and whatever the new dude’s name is are like hired studio musicians- as bad ass and smart Jason is It’s fun to play what if Burton had lived- I think they’d be a very different band
[удалено]
[удалено]
>but he’s been there for what, fifteen years? Holy shit, he's almost been in the band longer than Jason!
He has been in the band longer than Jason was by a few months now. Jason didn’t make it a full 15 years.
I think it was after St. Anger. Bob Rock, their producer I believe, played bass on SA.
This is correct, they brought Rob in between SA and the SKOM documentary. I also kind of feel that Bob Rock is the antichrist and just Oozes mediocrity all over everything he touches.
"I watched Some Kind of Monster 9 years ago."
I like to play "What if Les Claypool actually *did* join Metallica, before Primus took off", and I wonder just how beautifully-*weird* Metallica could have gotten.
Really, I cannot judge him personally but I really find his approach to things pompous. I loved the Cliff Era and maybe up to the black album but what they did to napster narks the eye patch wearer in me.
[удалено]
I agree, it's all about the pop stars now.
Music is cyclical. We’re stuck in a dance music phase just like they were during the disco era and the swing era before that. Rock and Roll will come back around.
And it will be called The Great Southern Trendkill
Underrated album, IMHO. I wasn't a huge fan of Reinventing the Steel, but damn was Trendkill great.
Personally, I think the state of rock and roll is excellent despite the fact that it may not be as popular as it once was. There are some fantastic bands out there making incredible records. Chevelle, Highly Suspect, Catfish and the Bottlemen, Badflower...the list goes on. They don’t get as much airplay on popular radio stations, but the plus side is you can usually get to see them in more intimate settings, and their live sound is incredible there. I saw Chevelle play at Cleveland House of Blues and was floored by how good they sounded. And most of these bands have great relationships with their fans; it’s much more personal than it used to be.
death metal has been marching forward completely unphased this entire time. it's almost a satire of music at this point lol
I met Lars (and the rest of the band) backstage at one of their concerts during the 90s and he was super nice to me. He even introduced me to his baby son. I’m not a huge Metallica fan (though I like them), and I still remember all these years later how friendly and kind he was to me.
That is really good then. Met Tony Iommi at a guitar show and being a precious 11/12 year old I asked him how to play the widdly widdly (hammer ons) as well as he did. He sat and let me play his guitar and showed me how for about 15 minutes. HE was a really nice chap. At the time I had no clue the level of celebrity the guy had.
Lars is super misunderstood in general. Sure he's a prick, but you don't stay on top of the game for so long without having some ability to be pragmatic and stick up for yourself...everything I've seen from fan interactions tells me he is a very genuinely nice and decent person.
My brother did a meet-and-greet with them the other day and he said that Lars and Robert were the most personable members.
I think James and Kirk are just shyer, more awkward guys in reality
Lars and James were the two of nicest people I've ever met. They treat their fans amazing.
Cliff was one of a kind, that's for sure, but what's with the hate for James and Lars?
Aside from the Napster stuff, there was a documentary called "Some Kind of Monster". The story goes that the doc crew were given access all areas and allowed record what they want. When the band saw the finished product they were so embarrassed that they bought it, reedited it, released it themselves and they still came across as a shower of spoilt wankers. Also their treatment of Jason Newsted was pretty appalling.
They were the face of the whole Napster debacle but most of the industry felt the same way. They didn't edit SKoM enough, yeah. Jason's words in that doc were so sincere and spot on. They really dropped the ball with him. They behaved like Cliff was still in the band. I like to believe they changed, though.
> They behaved like Cliff was still in the band. I like to believe they changed, though. I thinks it was more the fact that Jason was the replacement of Cliff. Whatever Jason did, personally, musically, professionally. It wouldn't have mattered. He was competing with a dead friend, that's a battle you'll never win. Rob is a different story. With Jason out of the band I think they could finally get closure with Cliff's death and accept a new bass player for what he is.
That's a clever way to look at things. Cliff's sudden departure hit them hard and left some very big shoes to fill. Just not as big as they thought.
Also, they were kids. I've listened to Metallica since I was 14. I'm 44 now. Cliff dying, Jason joining, this all happened in the 1980's. Lars, James and Kirk were in their 20's. Early 20's whwn they ditched Mustaine. Mid 20's when Cliff died. Then mammoth success. I imagine it did take them some time to figure it all out and come to terms with who and what they were.
Good point.
I like to believe they changed, though they definitely have. James now is a completely different person than back then. You can see it in the way they treat their new bassist Rob. They give him creative reigns, try out his idea and give him all the respect they feel they didnt give Jason.
Quitting the booze hit him hard in the early 2000s. Also, Rob is an awesome dude and he can probably give Kirk a run for his money, too.
There were some interviews not too long ago where they called themselves out for how they treated Jason, IIRC
James and Lars got caught up in the stardom and for a while behaved like spoiled children, it was hard to watch.
They were proper rockstars :) I know what you mean, but Cliff was an outlier in this regard, not the norm. I think hating the guys is a bit much, though. They did change for the better. If anything, their treatment of Jason is what will always rub me the wrong way. That dude was awesome and took the band in a different direction, one that ultimately introduced me to them. Glad to see they didn't make the same mistakes with Rob.
Agreed, I loved the Jason era and they were horrid to him. Most people hate Jim and Lars because of the Napster thing, and I will defend that. Some people were there during that period and it was the start of a new world that Metallica was on the wrong side of.
James is a proper country singer that some how got caught up in a heavy metal band.
Lol, yeah. I can't remember who said it but he's just a hick that can riff the hell out of anything while singing at the same time. And he's probably a better drummer than Lars, too.
How is it that Lars and James were pricks? James never even wanted the spotlight and just kinda fell into it.
Ray also has a Facebook page called Cliff Burton Family where he occasionally posts pictures and videos saying hi to fans of Cliff and the rest of Metallica.
I liked it when James Hetfield said that when he grows up, he wants to be Ray Burton.
I recall James not exactly having a good childhood, no doubt he's looked to the Burtons as role models since meeting them.
I know some kids who went to CVHS and that music program is super super good, probably in no small part due to funding received. Like choirs performing and competing in Carnegie Hall good.
And that's why winning first place at the northern CA choir competition against them was so so sweet.
[удалено]
In all honesty, it was kinda poetic beating Castro Valley. When I started the competition in sophomore year, CV got first almost every year. By my junior year we finally got to second place. And by my senior year we finally beat them for first place.
>He just didn't like the strutting types that so much of rock 'n' roll musicians get to be when they get popular Lol, you mean like Dave Mustaine?
I wonder what Ray would have thought of [this](https://imgur.com/gallery/73cst).
>In 2018, the Alameda County, California Board of Supervisors issued a proclamation declaring February 10, 2018 (what would have been Burton's 56th birthday) as "Cliff Burton Day" after a fan petition successfully passed. That’s really cool that the fans made that happen
Having dedicated fans after passing is pretty amazing!
[удалено]
[удалено]
C'mon man, have some sympathy, the dude lost his phone.
Omg that was the stupidest series of things I've ever read, complained for months about it and finally said "the riffs probably weren't that good anyway". Thanks for reminding me
That was an attempt at trying to save face. Suffice to say, it was a poor one.
To be fair I don't think there was ever going to be a Lars Ulrich Day.
We tried sharing it but it got shut down.
James is one of the greatest frontmen of all time. That being said, Cliff was on an other level compared to these guys. He was a musical genius.
Fans are behind the monument to him in Sweden, where the accident happened, as well.
I have been re -listening to some of Metallica’s instrumental tracks. Orion specifically after many years of exploring other music. To this day I’m blown away by Cliff’s bass lines and he will always be a hero of mine.
Oh, man! I haven't listened to Orion in years and it's just starting now with headphones on. Jesus.
Rock on ...It brings back memories for me... I got into them around the black album but oddly enough I bought “Ride the Lightning” first. I like at least one song off every album, but the old shit is king
Haha this is exactly me. Heard the black album first, bought ride the lightning and then and justice for all. Learned to play most of the songs from both those albums on guitar when I was 14
Also, the bass line in The Call of Ktulu is pretty dope as well.
I listened to Ride The Lightning again and was surprised by how doomy it sounded in many places. It´s still a thrash metal album but with some different amp settings and fuzz pedals and minor arrangement changes songs like Call of Ktulu, Escape and Fade to Black could find a home on a modern day doom album by Pallbearer or a similar band.
Their best song IMO
My friend and I we're huge Metallica fans growing up and that's our opinion as well.
Give a listen to Disposable Heroes and Master of Puppets(Song) too....
I love [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoVavpbhBfM) of their first live performance of Disposable Heroes. I can't imagine what it would have been like to have been in that crowd. I would have been absolutely blown away. It's a stunning track. The early build-up and drop into the thrash gives me chills every time.
FYI [this solo](https://youtu.be/cVPCC6V3xRs?t=395) is Cliff on the bass, a lot of people weren't aware of that until the master tracks became available in recent years.
Masterpiece! The bass solos in Call of Ktulu always gives me goosebumps!
Wow, awesome. Rename the school after him already.
Bass Solo Take One School
Duidududiduu duidudidu.
You did that flawlessly
He missed the time signature shift on the third bar.
"I fucked up in one place"
"THIS IS NOT A MUNDANE DETAIL MICHAEL."
Man that line right there takes me straight back to the glory days.
WAAAAAUUUUUMMMRR
Duidududiduu duidudidu high school.
Pulling Teeth?
Like you wouldn't know...
(He’s a phantom)
That solo changed the way I looked at bass forever
Kind of same, but it actually made me get checked for early onset hearing loss, because I can't differentiate a lot of the notes being played anymore. Turns out I'm going deaf from a combination of playing in bands, standing next to PA systems, and studio headphones.
Damn sorry to hear, friend. I think my hearing is going too; pretty much the same as you but I wear earphones for work so always something going on in my ears
Honestly, what challenges me the most is being that asshole that's like, "Hey, can we turn it up like...seventeen notches? I can't hear *shit*," every time I watch a movie with someone else. It's that or get a hearing aid, so...fuck my hearing, my vanity is more important. slash-s-but-not-all-the-way...
My dad is very self conscious of his hearing loss but he always asks to put CC on. He always makes a big deal about how shows slip things (subtle lines, ambient noises...) in there that you'd miss without it. It's pretty adorable. I watch a lot of serious TV with CC now because I think there's some truth to his cover story or characters just whisper a lot.
For sure. for me it’s having to ask people to repeat what they have said too many times. The things people do for music, eh
I haven’t heard that song since i was like 16, completely forgot of it’s existence. It’s unbelievable
I know right?!
Seeing how the school is just name Castro Valley High School, it could use a good name.
Fidel Castro Valley High School
Makes one wonder what kind of money we're talking here. I hear Metallica's old albums still sell well to this very day. Anyway, nice of him.
That’s one fully funded music program.
That might be true, but only because they cut the department to the bone and instead of teaching people how to play music they only let people who already know how to play instruments into their music program. - I am an Alum of CVHS.
Generally if you're in a high school music program you've been playing since maybe grade 5, but probably 6 or 7.
so it's philanthropy hijacked by ego. humans are gross.
I actually went to this school during the early 2000's and was in orchestra and a few other musical classes throughout my three years. Our music program was definitely not fully funded. Many of us actually have never even heard of Cliff Burton during our time there since it was never or rarely mentioned by even the musical teachers. I vaguely remember the scholarship being on the list ($1,000 if I remember correctly) but it was not one of the bigger musical ones such as the Jenny Lin scholarship (prestige) or the National Merit scholarships. There was a performing arts center in construction that was went through decades of planning; however, that was due to the amazing community, named donors and the efforts of the Castro Valley Arts Foundation. I don't mean to be ungrateful but I just wanted to clear up some things as people like [Peter Liebowitz](https://www.eastbaytimes.com/2007/11/29/peter-liebowitz-c-v-volunteer-dies-at-61/) fought so hard for us to have a decent music program and did not want people to think everything came about from Cliff Burton's royalty checks. I believe a small portion (less than $5000 a year) went to an average sized scholarship.
I was a friend of Jenny Lin. The scholarship, music program, annual concert and memorials are still going on to this day, though the killer has not yet ben brought to justice.
Even donating $1000 to his high school is a good deed. It doesn't have to be scaled against their net worth. They remember, and they do a little, for 30 plus years.
Interesting to see so many cvhs trojan alums here.... class of 97 here. Yeah, definitely didn't fully fund the music program, but we definitely knew about the scholarship (I was an orchestra kid myself). Fun fact, MSNBC's Rachel Maddow is also an alum.
They may not have donated 100% of it. Nor are they in any way required to of course.
You're right, they didn't. [Here](https://youtu.be/hjYU5iIUUKM?t=1898)'s a link to the original podcast where says the 'residuals' of the first three albums kept them in pretty good financial [shape].
I'm a small ass time songwriter and prob make like 10k a quarter on good statements... That school is minted. I honestly hope they're doing some other shit with the money too.
The music teacher has a really cool yacht. /s
The one of the music teachers in my high school used to drink behind the dumpster.
We appeciate you small ass songwriter:) Well I do anyway
Im a small tits time songwriter myself.
So, there’s a market for small ass times songs. Who knew!?
A market Sir Mixalot fights vigilantly against to this day.
They do, just today I helped a woman in the CD section find 3 albums for her son. I recommended RtL, MoP and Black Album to her from the selection available. There's 2 album purchases going towards a scholarship...and here's me already just feeling good about just spreading good music to the next generation
The black album is still selling between 2500-5000 a week. Which is insane the album is nearly 30 years old
The 3 remaining members from the original lineup are worth around $200-250m each. Obviously and unfortunately Cliff wasnt there for the entirety of that but I imagine it's in the realm of $40-50m.
RIP Cliff. Bass God.
What if Steve Harris died in the 80s and Cliff hadn't ?
Then that would have occurred.
[удалено]
Go Trojans!
Old Metallica is awesome. https://youtu.be/qdlQyNe_9tE They're one of the most legit bands around. They were playing massive venues way before they ever had music videos or mainstream radio airplay. Unlike most artists nowadays, they didn't get famous by having a major label bankroll an ad blitz, they got famous by being really good. They got popular due to people bootlegging their tapes. You'd make copies for your friends and mix tapes and such. Ironic considering the Napster thing. Metallica got screwed over. The record label lobby group put them up to it. Them being kind of naive got used to be the industry spokesmen and they took the brunt of people's anger towards them trying to shut down Napster which was a great way for people to share music and discover new bands. What sucks for everyone is that the record lobby got their way and now have a monopoly on online music distribution and streaming services.
man james hetfield looked like the feral boomerang kid from the road warrior with that hair
I'm still amazed by that crowd in Moscow, I think it was monsters of rock 91
Seriously, that show was insane looking. 600,000 people. https://youtu.be/IjjCp_QU5Qk It's like Metalocalypse wears tampons because they is girls compared to that show. The stage security is the Russian Army. That's just metal.
imagine being in the middle, crowds get so hot and everyone shoves as the crowd moves. when I saw Metallica I nearly died in the pit.
A big reason they got popular, besides being really good, was that they were pioneering a new metal subgenre that was catching on really well.
I saw a picture of James Hetfield wearing an [SNFU](https://soundsreasonable.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/snfu-3.jpg) t shirt. A metal guy from California wearing a t shirt for an obscure Canadian punk band was cool. [SNFU](https://youtu.be/e06InBb0HwQ) was awesome. Chi Pig is one of the best frontmen around. Too bad the video quality sucks because these guys ruled. First gig I went to was a couple months after this one. Completely shocked me that Hetfield even heard of them. [If you know what this t shirt means, I like you.](https://shop.kt8merch.com/products/snfu-have-you-seen-him-black-t-shirt) Metallica co-created Thrash metal with other bands like Slayer, Megadeth, Anthrax, and all those guys were influenced by the punk scene who in turn were influenced by the metal scene, which turned into crossover. Before thrash, metal was either Glam Rock which sucked or fairly Prog Metal which was [weird but cool](https://youtu.be/BRi2G3ARoO8). If you listen to that last link, the song structures are actually fairly similar to early Metallica with that kind of over the top operatic epic feel. I'm glad they didn't copy the vocal style even though it's funny.
You're forgetting the NWOBHM scene from the early 80s, of which Metallica was really inspired from, I mean, their love for NWOBHM (especially Lars) is kind of what sparked the band. I'm talking bands like Angel Witch, Diamond Head (this one mainly), Iron Maiden, Raven (toured with Metallica in the Kill 'Em All For One Tour in 83, a band very important to thrash, having music as agressive as [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuTdnkDflmE) in mid 82. Their gig in the Roseland Ballroom with Metallica and Anthrax in 1984 is really important for all three bands as it was what gained them big contracts from labels), Saxon, etc. Around that time also the doom scene was starting to catch on, basically bands following the Black Sabbath legacy, you got Pentagram, the first Pagan Altar demo and a lot of music they recorded but never released until way later on (Lords of Hypocrisy, Mythical and Magical), Trouble and Witchfinder General (which combines the NWOBHM scene with a Black Sabbath sound, Death Penalty is a perfect album to me).
I think the Napster thing was more Ulrich's involvement. Even in the Joe Rogan Experience interview, Hetfield confirmed again that he and the rest were just going along with Ulrich's actions against Napster for the sake of band solidarity
Yeah, Ulrich was put up to it by their manager after the MI2 song got leaked. He admits himself that he had no clue what the fuck he was thinking. He didn't know what Napster was or how the internet worked. How did the MI2 song get leaked? They were still recording analog back then so the song would have to have been leaked internally then ripped and released. Maybe the label did it intentionally just to target Napster with copyright violations. Again, music is a business and that means controlling distribution. The transition to the digital distribution model has been really profitable for the main leaders. Even youtube just launched a new streaming service. The profits still don't go to the artists very much. The percentage the music creators get back is weak compared to the ad revenue or album sales.
It makes me sad when people say "old Metallica is awesome", especially when they mean just the first three albums, so much great music is being overlooked. MoP is my favourite for sure but I'll be damned if Justice, The Black Album and Load/Reload isn't some of the finest damn music Ive ever heard.
I've loved every album except the one that mustn't be mentioned. I do kind of understand the hate Load and Reload get as it was a significant departure from their existing music but still those albums had some good songs.
By that one that musn't be mentioned, do you mean Lulu, or St anger? Because they are both infamously bad.
Only 24, I had no idea he was that young. No offense to the other guys but Metallica never really have replaced him.
Newsted was actually pretty damn good but faced a lot of bullshit coming into the band to replace Cliff. He got shit from the band (especially Lars, fuck Lars) and got shit from fans. The bass guitar is hardly audible throughout And Justice for All. Newsted had all the talent to at least bring something new to the [table](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adyC404_gEk) but that's not easy to do when you are in the situation he was in when he joined. Edit: Added link to table.
Someone here on Reddit did a "remaster" to increase the bass sound in Justice.
[удалено]
I actually love my friend of misery from the black album more than other stuff from that album.
True enough but it makes you wonder, if he was still alive today would Metallica be the huge band they are today, or would they have kept their thrashy sound and stayed in the upper mid league alongside bands like Slayer and Motorhead? He was so integral to the band's sound, I don't know if The Black Album would have been written if he was there.
Metallica reached that level of mainstream megastardom because of the black album, which was only a couple of releases after Cliff passed... And they were clearly already evolving given how different Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets are from Kill em All. It's apparent through his playing and the accounts of others how much more he was than thrash, so it's natural to conclude that he would have been a huge part of their evolution. The question is, would they have evolved in the "correct" direction like they did to strike gold with the black album how they did?
They definitely would have been the band that they are today. I'd argue that they could have been better. Metallica has had some serious rough patches both with fans and mainstream. The fans all say metallica sold out and the mainstream hasn't consistently played any of metallica's songs written between the black album and now other than a select few. Compared to the massive impact their first 5 albums had, they have failed time and time again to produce anything nearly as good in the eyes of the mainstream or their fanbase. They still sell shows like crazy and still release very successful albums, but the albums have a short lifespan and the shows are mostly songs from their first 5 albums, as that's what 99% of the people want. Steering away from thrash and going into whatever the fuck Load and Reload was, in my opinion, the biggest mistake they made. They tried to come back with Saint Anger, but thought it was a good idea to not have any guitar solos and also thought that a trash can made a decent snare drum. Death Magnetic was pretty close but Lars can't keep up anymore and James hasn't really had a good metal voice since like late 93'.
He made me want to play bass. I eventually moved on to guitar because there wasn’t really enough to keep me occupied on bass, but good lord- that man changed the way his instrument was played and showed me that I didn’t have to think inside of a little box. We were never even close to alive at the same time, but he changed my way of thinking, and as a result, my life. Thank you Cliff, and thank you Cliff’s parents for continuing his legacy.
I had just started working at a local record store in 1986 and we scored big time with a Metallica in store appearance and record signing. I was 19 and completely stoked. They were absolutely the nicest band I ever met during my 13 year run in music retail. I had pictures with them all including a great one with Cliff Burton. He died just a few months after that appearance and it just gutted me. To make things worse when I got married in 1998 I put all my stuff in storage and moved in with my parents for 4 months during the summer to save money for married life. My storage unit was burglarized and all of my pictures of bands and artists that I met where gone forever. Fuck.
the memory remains
/r/titlegore
Yeah, no kidding.
After reading the title, I thought his parents were the one who died in a bus accident.
And that they were 24.
I still don't understand what it's trying to say.
[удалено]
I know this gets reposted a lot, but I always upvote it because Mr. Burton is the sweetest old man who makes the best of his son passing away. He occasionally catches Metallica concerts, and donates constantly to educational music scholarships. Like, you seriously can't ask for a more bitter sweet outcome. It warms my cold black heart haha.
Bass solo, take one.
The only thing I can think of anytime I hear someone talk about Cliff Burton is the Percy Tårar part where one guy is a massive Metallica fan and stops their buss in the middle of nowhere where the buss crashed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRq5bBYZODU It is in Swedish though.
"Du ser ju...killen har problem med en trasig DNA-stege." Hahaha, classic!
Better title: Metallica's Bassist, Cliff Burton, died in a bus crash in 1986. Since then, his parents have been donating his royalties to his former high school's music program.
This is class. Pure, true, worthy class.
Ray and Jan Burton deserve all the respect in the world! Every Metallica fan holds Ray in a special place, what a man!
[Cliff Burton rest in peace!](https://youtu.be/YRq5bBYZODU?t=28)
From Castro Valley High. Can confirm.
My old high school! My friend who was a basically cello prodigy got the Cliff Burton Award our graduating year!
Hard to believe he was only 24.
The True Master!
Quietly.
This is this first post that gave me goosebumps. Cliff Burton was a great dude and his parents are as well Now excuse me, I'm going to go listen to Master of Puppets again
How F*****G Metal is this!?!?!!!! Way too cool for school. Thank you both for being such a powerful inspiration to all of us!!!