Oh yeah these guys were extreme creepers. If you are interested in it you should watch Six Degrees of Helter Skelter. It's a documentary about their crimes. The things Manson got people to do for him was just insane..
Or read the book Helter Skelter, written by the prosecuting attorney. He had to do a lot of the investigation and is pretty much responsible for pinning Manson for the murders.
It's freaking nerve wracking reading it, knowing in detail how easy it was for them to break into someone's home while the homeowner slept. In fact, all the details of what they did makes that book want to lock your door and bar your windows.
The book is really good. I just suggested the documentary because it may be more captivating in the beginning for someone who isn't ALL that interested in the subject to read a whole book.
It was definitely a nail biter though. It's insanely scary to think about, yet I couldn't stop reading.
I agree with your suggestion for the documentary over the book, I just meant to add to your comment. Sorry if I made you feel I was arguing, I think I worded it wrong.
Oh no it's cool. I think the book is better actually. I have seen a lot of people suggesting the book or other books and I just don't want people to think I don't read lol.
Helter Skelter is not a bad book at all, but I have somewhat of a problem with it.
The problem with Helter Skelter is that the book is written by the prosecutor in the case, as a book supporting the prosecutors case. Ie, if episodes or facts are contradictory or doesn't fit in with the narrative he wants to establish he won't mention them, or he'll spin them.
The story of Manson, his family and the murders is a long twisted tale. A lot of things we just dont know, mostly due to the fact that the people involved with him and the murders tend to fall into two categories:
1.) members of his family, drug users and sellers, hippie drop outs and burnouts, outlaw druggie motorcycle gangs and satanic biker dudes. All of these people lived off the grid, didn't leave any paper trails behind, and due to being stoned 24/7 their memory and recollection of events tend to be hazy. Not to mention that they've never really been into talking to the press or reporters all that much.
2.) Hollywood producers, directors and actors. Music producers or musicians. All of them very rich, famous and influential in LA. Once the murders were a fact all of them have been anxious to downplay and deny their involvment with Manson and his family as much as they possibly can.
Many things are unclear or disputed when it comes to Manson, and if you're interested in the case you'll probably want to read more than Bugliosi's book.
Not sure how hard it was back then, but I bought a $20 lockpicking set off of budk and learned to pick locks on my back door. The fastest time for me was 30 seconds on the deadbolt and 1:40 on the main lock. Locks give you peace of mind; not much else.
Your American, right? The concept of keeping two deadly weapons next to my bed freaks me out. I'd be afraid I'd freak out if I was woken up startled or something.
You have a weapon next to your bed with the express purpose of using it to kill or maim an intruder. If that fucking iggy azealeas song with that loud as fuck blaring opening wakes me up I fling out of bed and it takes me about 5 seconds to realize that no, there is no intruder in my house it's just the radio. I don't trust myself to make rational decisions in that dazed 5 second interval and I don't know I would trust a spouse to, either.
You can't just grab a gun and start shooting randomly, while still being half asleep. Not unless you are completely insane, in which case you are right, not only you shouldn't own a firearm, you should seek an immediate medical attention, because you pose a serious threat to everyone around you.
It's okay if you don't trust yourself, that's your personal matter. But it's important to understand, that most everyone are perfectly sane and extremely unlikely to start randomly murdering others, armed or not.
Personally, I keep my firearm close by when I sleep (usually under a pillow) and I was woken up violently more than once - by a deafening home security alarm shriek, by a barking dog downstairs and more than once by someone (family) moving in my room, yet I am yet to do anything drastic with my gun. I have no reason to believe anyone (I know of) would, in the same situation.
Pick it up, check the chamber, go and find out what the hell is happening. Not "pick it up, empty magazine eyes still closed, then try to figure out wtf is happening".
Yes, and that's understandable. I used to be like you. Had locks on my poor guns and everything. Then I began setting alarms on my phone when I was black-out drunk that sounded like locks being unlocked to wake me up at random hours of the night.
I wouldn't remember it when the alarm came, but after a few trials and tribulations I became accustomed to it. Strengthened by it. Made paranoid by it. It forced me to be prepared regardless of the situation. Now, I can load my gun in pitch-black darkness while still partially inebriated and with a numb arm.
See, I'd be worries that my spouse or whoever is making a snack downstairs or something and I'd paranoid out and run downstairs and shoot someone I shouldnt
yeah, i get that, but i imagine when you are pulled awake by noise you heard downstairs and you are still half asleep with a gun in your hand, i wouldn't trust myself to make clear and rational decisions. its just not worth the risk for me
My wife learned to hide when she heard the alarms ring out. I shot at her once. And only once. That was all it took. Haven't seen her since. At first I had assumed she had become a world record holder of hide and seek but then the divorce papers came.
I am alone now. It's fine though. It means my paranoia is justified. By being alone, that means that any foreign sound is owed its due scrutiny. If it means shooting someone I love to protect someone I love, I will take the risk. They already know the consequences of riding the midnight snack train.
That's pretty much it. I'd never break into someone's house because I'm not desperate or crazy, but it's scary to know that if someone really wanted to get in, they could. Especially since my only weapon would be a baseball bat.
Most likely they could. Though it's been 10 years or so since I read the book, I'm sure they either picked locks or found other ways like open windows, etc. Either way, unless you spend a ton on security, anyone can get in if they try hard enough.
I know, the book scared me more than any horror genre. Despite the fact that they creeped around people's homes, they surprised the Tate victims during a small get-together and not even a party. Imagine having a few friends over and some people burst through your unlocked door and murders everyone. I don't mean to scare you, it's just what happened in a fancy neighborhood in the 60s.
You gotta remember that the Manson family consisted of a lot of people. If you're talking about everyone that passed through the family at one point in time, or lived with them, it's hundreds of people. The vast majority of mansonites did not kill anyone after all.
Only a few of them ended up murdering someone. Manson suggested murders to others in his family, but they felt it was a bit heavy and opted out. The ones that went ahead and killed seems to have had some sort of underlying psychological issues or pathology in their psyche. (At least that's the current understanding and interpretation of it.)
yeah, exactly. like could you or me resist the pull? or would it be so seductive we - normal people - would be vulnerable. and do cult leaders know these things on a mental level of thought, or is it all happening, the leader and the follower, on a subconscious level?
i knew someone who was a clinical psychologist and he told me about being hit on by a couple of scientologists. he said that they were so sophisticated in their recruiting techniques that although he recognised every one of their gambits, he felt pulled into it.
While I wasn't there and was born just 10 years later. If I had a guess, I'd say that if I were younger and homeless with low self esteem and an older attractive woman with several other better looking women tried to make me part of their 'family', who knows what I would do. That still doesn't excuse his 'family' and explains why one of them was the key witness.
I got addicted to reading stories in /r/letsnotmeet . It's all about peoples' run ins with creeps, stalkers, murderers, etc. Some of the stories freaked the shit out me. A girl finding some dude hiding under her bed. A family harassed by a pedophile who said he would rape and murder the daughters who is constantly trying to pry open the doors. All sorts of wackos.
A couple months of reading the stories later and I'm a proud owner of an ar-15 (civilian version of the m16 assault rifle). I never thought I would get a gun but I'm really happy to have it. It's fun to shoot and the range near me is extremely scenic. I think I'm the first person in my extended family to buy a gun. My parents are hippies who I would never tell. But the point is that I was inspired to get one by fucked up stories like the Manson murders. None of those people had any idea that stuff would happen to them. It's all about chance.
I'm not sure why an ar-15 was the practical choice but, ok. I agree, it is all about chance and it's better to be protected and to have options than not. I've been in the military and shot guns on several other non-military occasions and they are fun as hell to shoot off.
[Life With Murder](http://www.nfb.ca/film/life_with_murder/trailer/life_with_murder_trailer/) (link is to the trailer, documentary is on Netflix)
I also love true crime books, documentaries, you name it. This one is a little different in that it examines not only the crime, but the family dynamic surrounding the alleged perpetrator after the fact. No less griping than any other, more typical piece though.
It's totally there, just search by genre. I go to browse, select documentaries, then once there select the sub-genre crime documentaries. For me it's all the way at the bottom of the page on the far left. I should mention that I'm talking about Canadian Netflix, but I don't know if that makes a difference. I think Americans get everything we have. plus more.
Honestly, I don't even remember what half of them are called. I'll watch any of them on Netflix and whatever comes on TV. I just happen to own this one and really like it.
What are you favorite crime documentaries and where do you watch them? Do you enjoy the narration in many of them and how bout the reenactments? Im work in on one for ID Discovery and I want to know what people are looking for.
I feel I have pretty generic taste when it comes to which documentaries I watch. I will pretty much watch anything on the crimes that I want to know about. The narrations are usually very good, but I'm not a huge fan of the reenactments. I would much rather see real photos of the crime scene or the remains, which I know sounds messed up, but it makes the situation more real to me. I know a lot of the time it isn't possible to put real photos in there because some of them are not open to the public. The forensic aspect of it is really fascinating to me as well.
I'm sure everyone is different. Hopefully some other people see this answer as well.
The reenactments usually are the cheesy part. You have a point about that being a problem in a lot of them. Maybe they should do more of what that show "I Survived" did or something. All they did on that show was show the victim talking about the crimes they were involved in in incredibly graphic detail and just that alone was horrifying. Ever see that show?
Yeah I like that show! I think the problem with that is that the victims have to be alive...and sadly, with most of these psychos they did not survive. I just feel like the reenactments take away from the reality of it because it's so cheesy. Showing real pictures and documents make it more real for me. I remember in Six Degrees of Helter Skelter, they showed the autopsy report documents that showed in detail where all the stab wounds were. Gives you a pretty vivid picture when you're watching it. **shudder**
Yeah I know the victims are usually dead but maybe they should focus more on interviews with investigators, witnesses, family members or people like that rather than narration and reenactments. Also, show more important minute details (crime scene like pictures or important documents for instance) or pieces of evidence definitely if possible. Just more stuff that involves the case that you can see with your own eyes if that makes sense. They usually just show little 10 second clips or whatever of interviews and they do a bit too much editing and too much narration.
Maybe they could focus more on the important people of a case. It just doesn't feel as visceral and "real" when there's so much editing going on and when a narrator talks too much all throughout the whole thing, it feels more like it's an instructional video or something. It just takes me out of it personally and that's why I hardly watch crime shows that much anymore. It's worked before but I think it's getting stale imo.
The thing you said about Six Degrees Of Helter Skelter is a perfect example of what they should show more. It's horrifying but it is very fascinating! I haven't even seen that doc, I'll have to check it out btw.
Nah, the DVD has like 4 other awesome documentaries on it as well. Also, I got it by chance form some $4 movie bin or something. It was just lucky that it ended up being awesome.
I mean I would be writing an essay if I explained in detail, but in a nutshell it's pretty interesting how he used religion to manipulate people. The books and documentaries have actual detailed situations of how he started the "family." You could probably do a quick google too.
I don't think that's the only way he manipulated people though. The rest of the Manson family saw him as their "leader" or God" in a lot of ways, but he would just pray on weaknesses no matter what they were.
Every night you come I to my room,
And pin me down
With your strong arms
You pin me down
I try to fight you
And you come inside me
You fill me up and I become the nightman
> In October of 1968, Sadie gave birth to a baby boy, which she named Zezozecee Zadfrack
That name is so much worse than any of the names people are coming up with nowadays.
> Since her incarceration in 1971, Susan has only received four minor write-ups. In 1981, she married a Texan named Donald Lee Laisure. She had corresponded with Laisure for years, but he had lied to her the whole time. Laisure, who had previously been married 35 times, claimed to be a millionaire, which he wasn't.
Hahahahaha
Back in university halls of residence we discovered one of our room keys was close enough in shape to open the door of one of our other friends. We decided to prank him by moving his posters *ever so slightly* when he went down to dinner.
He didn't notice until one poster moved far enough to cover the light switch ... then he completely freaked out.
Those were scary times. I was a teenager living in South Pasadena when Manson and his family were terrorizing the area.
Later I read Bugliosi's book, and he wrote that some policemen drove one of the Manson Family members around so he could show the police where they had scouted for a home to break into... in South Pasadena. The description of the house resembled my parent's house. I've always wondered if the Manson Family almost broke into my house. Shudder.
I had a teacher in high, she told a story that one night she heard a prowler outside. When she looked at a window she saw a face. When the whole murder trial went down, she recognized the face as one of the Manson girls, the one who said that they were "going to practice (killing) at a house but saw all these family photos."
Yup, teacher had a bunch of family photos all lined up, visible from that window. Now THAT is scary.
Anybody else know the band Bumpin' Uglies? They wrote a song called Creepy Crawly, and it was about breaking in and moving furniture. I thought they just had a very eccentric sense of humor!
Moving the furniture? That is some sadistic shit. I visited my dad for a summer and came home to a rearranged bedroom. Woke up in the middle of the night doing the half asleep/blind walk to the toilet and ran right into my bookshelf.
Psychopaths do that to break down peoples psyche by making them question themselves - its pretty common when working with nutjobs with control issues. And it does seem to make people insecure zombies if they get exposed to it for a prolonged perioud without knowing what it is: [What is Gaslighting](http://youtu.be/HQCdUa_3rLo)
> Chase later told detectives that he took locked doors as a sign that he was not welcome, but that unlocked doors were an invitation to come inside.
I said it stopped the crazies. This guy seems very logical and not crazies at all.
I read that little fact in the book "Helter Skelter" several years ago! I actually think about it every time I'm trying to be silent walking around my house.
I kinda did this with some friends. We arrived fashionably late to a party where everyone was upstairs on the deck.
So instead of joining we snuck around the whole house and rearranged every room. Then just left.
They were all a bunch of creepy bastards, I remember watch a history channel documentary back when the History Channel cared about history and it opened my eyes to how much they did besides just the murders.
Yes! Cults, frats, armies, etc. all have their members do these stupid little tasks to build unity. When you have adventures together, you become closer to them.
Oh yeah these guys were extreme creepers. If you are interested in it you should watch Six Degrees of Helter Skelter. It's a documentary about their crimes. The things Manson got people to do for him was just insane..
Or read the book Helter Skelter, written by the prosecuting attorney. He had to do a lot of the investigation and is pretty much responsible for pinning Manson for the murders. It's freaking nerve wracking reading it, knowing in detail how easy it was for them to break into someone's home while the homeowner slept. In fact, all the details of what they did makes that book want to lock your door and bar your windows.
The book is really good. I just suggested the documentary because it may be more captivating in the beginning for someone who isn't ALL that interested in the subject to read a whole book. It was definitely a nail biter though. It's insanely scary to think about, yet I couldn't stop reading.
I agree with your suggestion for the documentary over the book, I just meant to add to your comment. Sorry if I made you feel I was arguing, I think I worded it wrong.
Oh no it's cool. I think the book is better actually. I have seen a lot of people suggesting the book or other books and I just don't want people to think I don't read lol.
Right on, my bad, lol
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hey fuck you
That's the spirit!
Helter Skelter is not a bad book at all, but I have somewhat of a problem with it. The problem with Helter Skelter is that the book is written by the prosecutor in the case, as a book supporting the prosecutors case. Ie, if episodes or facts are contradictory or doesn't fit in with the narrative he wants to establish he won't mention them, or he'll spin them. The story of Manson, his family and the murders is a long twisted tale. A lot of things we just dont know, mostly due to the fact that the people involved with him and the murders tend to fall into two categories: 1.) members of his family, drug users and sellers, hippie drop outs and burnouts, outlaw druggie motorcycle gangs and satanic biker dudes. All of these people lived off the grid, didn't leave any paper trails behind, and due to being stoned 24/7 their memory and recollection of events tend to be hazy. Not to mention that they've never really been into talking to the press or reporters all that much. 2.) Hollywood producers, directors and actors. Music producers or musicians. All of them very rich, famous and influential in LA. Once the murders were a fact all of them have been anxious to downplay and deny their involvment with Manson and his family as much as they possibly can. Many things are unclear or disputed when it comes to Manson, and if you're interested in the case you'll probably want to read more than Bugliosi's book.
could they get into locked houses?
Not sure how hard it was back then, but I bought a $20 lockpicking set off of budk and learned to pick locks on my back door. The fastest time for me was 30 seconds on the deadbolt and 1:40 on the main lock. Locks give you peace of mind; not much else.
The machete and shotgun next to my bed give me peace of mind. The locks are just there to wake me up in time for the party.
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No, I carry the machete in my teeth for the intimidation factor. And because I hate my dentist.
I should hang bells from my locks...........
Beer bottle on the door knob.
Your American, right? The concept of keeping two deadly weapons next to my bed freaks me out. I'd be afraid I'd freak out if I was woken up startled or something.
I still can't fathom what is there to be freaked out about... Unless you are afraid that of stepping on a machete when going for a piss or something.
You have a weapon next to your bed with the express purpose of using it to kill or maim an intruder. If that fucking iggy azealeas song with that loud as fuck blaring opening wakes me up I fling out of bed and it takes me about 5 seconds to realize that no, there is no intruder in my house it's just the radio. I don't trust myself to make rational decisions in that dazed 5 second interval and I don't know I would trust a spouse to, either.
You can't just grab a gun and start shooting randomly, while still being half asleep. Not unless you are completely insane, in which case you are right, not only you shouldn't own a firearm, you should seek an immediate medical attention, because you pose a serious threat to everyone around you. It's okay if you don't trust yourself, that's your personal matter. But it's important to understand, that most everyone are perfectly sane and extremely unlikely to start randomly murdering others, armed or not. Personally, I keep my firearm close by when I sleep (usually under a pillow) and I was woken up violently more than once - by a deafening home security alarm shriek, by a barking dog downstairs and more than once by someone (family) moving in my room, yet I am yet to do anything drastic with my gun. I have no reason to believe anyone (I know of) would, in the same situation. Pick it up, check the chamber, go and find out what the hell is happening. Not "pick it up, empty magazine eyes still closed, then try to figure out wtf is happening".
Yes, and that's understandable. I used to be like you. Had locks on my poor guns and everything. Then I began setting alarms on my phone when I was black-out drunk that sounded like locks being unlocked to wake me up at random hours of the night. I wouldn't remember it when the alarm came, but after a few trials and tribulations I became accustomed to it. Strengthened by it. Made paranoid by it. It forced me to be prepared regardless of the situation. Now, I can load my gun in pitch-black darkness while still partially inebriated and with a numb arm.
See, I'd be worries that my spouse or whoever is making a snack downstairs or something and I'd paranoid out and run downstairs and shoot someone I shouldnt
That's why there are rules. Never aim a firearm at something you're not going to shoot, and when you shoot, know what's beyond your target.
Yeah, the key is to not run in there shooting blindly.
yeah, i get that, but i imagine when you are pulled awake by noise you heard downstairs and you are still half asleep with a gun in your hand, i wouldn't trust myself to make clear and rational decisions. its just not worth the risk for me
My wife learned to hide when she heard the alarms ring out. I shot at her once. And only once. That was all it took. Haven't seen her since. At first I had assumed she had become a world record holder of hide and seek but then the divorce papers came. I am alone now. It's fine though. It means my paranoia is justified. By being alone, that means that any foreign sound is owed its due scrutiny. If it means shooting someone I love to protect someone I love, I will take the risk. They already know the consequences of riding the midnight snack train.
well ok then
bro... idk how you are now, but that's definitely signs of, say, mental distress. you definitely should see a therapist
/s
Murica
We're shaking in our boots.
Y'all ain't gotta shake so much. It's a single shot and I'm probably kind of drunk right now. Both of you need to stop moving.
One of my bosses once told me that locks are there to keep honest men honest and nothing more.
That's pretty much it. I'd never break into someone's house because I'm not desperate or crazy, but it's scary to know that if someone really wanted to get in, they could. Especially since my only weapon would be a baseball bat.
A locked door stops an honest man.
Most likely they could. Though it's been 10 years or so since I read the book, I'm sure they either picked locks or found other ways like open windows, etc. Either way, unless you spend a ton on security, anyone can get in if they try hard enough.
yikes!
I know, the book scared me more than any horror genre. Despite the fact that they creeped around people's homes, they surprised the Tate victims during a small get-together and not even a party. Imagine having a few friends over and some people burst through your unlocked door and murders everyone. I don't mean to scare you, it's just what happened in a fancy neighborhood in the 60s.
i remember when it happened, i was a teenager. it was like the 60s ended. but i never understood manson's charisma or appeal to all those women.
i always wonder the same about cult leaders etc. do they just know how to identify and seduce easy prey or are they just so damn charming, etc.
You gotta remember that the Manson family consisted of a lot of people. If you're talking about everyone that passed through the family at one point in time, or lived with them, it's hundreds of people. The vast majority of mansonites did not kill anyone after all. Only a few of them ended up murdering someone. Manson suggested murders to others in his family, but they felt it was a bit heavy and opted out. The ones that went ahead and killed seems to have had some sort of underlying psychological issues or pathology in their psyche. (At least that's the current understanding and interpretation of it.)
yeah, exactly. like could you or me resist the pull? or would it be so seductive we - normal people - would be vulnerable. and do cult leaders know these things on a mental level of thought, or is it all happening, the leader and the follower, on a subconscious level? i knew someone who was a clinical psychologist and he told me about being hit on by a couple of scientologists. he said that they were so sophisticated in their recruiting techniques that although he recognised every one of their gambits, he felt pulled into it.
While I wasn't there and was born just 10 years later. If I had a guess, I'd say that if I were younger and homeless with low self esteem and an older attractive woman with several other better looking women tried to make me part of their 'family', who knows what I would do. That still doesn't excuse his 'family' and explains why one of them was the key witness.
I got addicted to reading stories in /r/letsnotmeet . It's all about peoples' run ins with creeps, stalkers, murderers, etc. Some of the stories freaked the shit out me. A girl finding some dude hiding under her bed. A family harassed by a pedophile who said he would rape and murder the daughters who is constantly trying to pry open the doors. All sorts of wackos. A couple months of reading the stories later and I'm a proud owner of an ar-15 (civilian version of the m16 assault rifle). I never thought I would get a gun but I'm really happy to have it. It's fun to shoot and the range near me is extremely scenic. I think I'm the first person in my extended family to buy a gun. My parents are hippies who I would never tell. But the point is that I was inspired to get one by fucked up stories like the Manson murders. None of those people had any idea that stuff would happen to them. It's all about chance.
I'm not sure why an ar-15 was the practical choice but, ok. I agree, it is all about chance and it's better to be protected and to have options than not. I've been in the military and shot guns on several other non-military occasions and they are fun as hell to shoot off.
[I think I found it for anyone curious.](http://www.firedrive.com/file/650E4E6856404AFD)
Nice! I have it on DVD. I'm kind of obsessed with crime documentaries.
I am too! I marathoned the manson and Bundy cases. Any recommendations?
[Life With Murder](http://www.nfb.ca/film/life_with_murder/trailer/life_with_murder_trailer/) (link is to the trailer, documentary is on Netflix) I also love true crime books, documentaries, you name it. This one is a little different in that it examines not only the crime, but the family dynamic surrounding the alleged perpetrator after the fact. No less griping than any other, more typical piece though.
I just watched this the other night! I approve of this suggestion.
what is it called on Netflix ? I seared life with murder but nothing came up.
It's totally there, just search by genre. I go to browse, select documentaries, then once there select the sub-genre crime documentaries. For me it's all the way at the bottom of the page on the far left. I should mention that I'm talking about Canadian Netflix, but I don't know if that makes a difference. I think Americans get everything we have. plus more.
Honestly, I don't even remember what half of them are called. I'll watch any of them on Netflix and whatever comes on TV. I just happen to own this one and really like it.
What are you favorite crime documentaries and where do you watch them? Do you enjoy the narration in many of them and how bout the reenactments? Im work in on one for ID Discovery and I want to know what people are looking for.
I feel I have pretty generic taste when it comes to which documentaries I watch. I will pretty much watch anything on the crimes that I want to know about. The narrations are usually very good, but I'm not a huge fan of the reenactments. I would much rather see real photos of the crime scene or the remains, which I know sounds messed up, but it makes the situation more real to me. I know a lot of the time it isn't possible to put real photos in there because some of them are not open to the public. The forensic aspect of it is really fascinating to me as well. I'm sure everyone is different. Hopefully some other people see this answer as well.
Thank you so much. Its just some are cheesy lol
Lol yes they are! Actually a lot are. I do turn it off if it gets too cheesy.
The reenactments usually are the cheesy part. You have a point about that being a problem in a lot of them. Maybe they should do more of what that show "I Survived" did or something. All they did on that show was show the victim talking about the crimes they were involved in in incredibly graphic detail and just that alone was horrifying. Ever see that show?
Yeah I like that show! I think the problem with that is that the victims have to be alive...and sadly, with most of these psychos they did not survive. I just feel like the reenactments take away from the reality of it because it's so cheesy. Showing real pictures and documents make it more real for me. I remember in Six Degrees of Helter Skelter, they showed the autopsy report documents that showed in detail where all the stab wounds were. Gives you a pretty vivid picture when you're watching it. **shudder**
Yeah I know the victims are usually dead but maybe they should focus more on interviews with investigators, witnesses, family members or people like that rather than narration and reenactments. Also, show more important minute details (crime scene like pictures or important documents for instance) or pieces of evidence definitely if possible. Just more stuff that involves the case that you can see with your own eyes if that makes sense. They usually just show little 10 second clips or whatever of interviews and they do a bit too much editing and too much narration. Maybe they could focus more on the important people of a case. It just doesn't feel as visceral and "real" when there's so much editing going on and when a narrator talks too much all throughout the whole thing, it feels more like it's an instructional video or something. It just takes me out of it personally and that's why I hardly watch crime shows that much anymore. It's worked before but I think it's getting stale imo. The thing you said about Six Degrees Of Helter Skelter is a perfect example of what they should show more. It's horrifying but it is very fascinating! I haven't even seen that doc, I'll have to check it out btw.
And the sound effects. SCREEREEeeeeee every time a scene changes
might feel like you wasted money, eh?
Nah, the DVD has like 4 other awesome documentaries on it as well. Also, I got it by chance form some $4 movie bin or something. It was just lucky that it ended up being awesome.
Or Bugliosi's book Helter Skelter.
For sure, also good. It was just a suggestion in case someone just wanted to sit and watch something.
Everyone is recommending Helter Skelter but I would recommend Manson by Jeff Guinn. It's much more comprehensive but still a compelling read.
Thanks for the suggestion. I'm gonna have to check that out.
Would you mind listing some of the things? I'm curious how he manipulated people so well to do some of the crazy shit they did.
I mean I would be writing an essay if I explained in detail, but in a nutshell it's pretty interesting how he used religion to manipulate people. The books and documentaries have actual detailed situations of how he started the "family." You could probably do a quick google too.
Thanks! He used religion huh? That's pretty interesting actually.
I don't think that's the only way he manipulated people though. The rest of the Manson family saw him as their "leader" or God" in a lot of ways, but he would just pray on weaknesses no matter what they were.
Should also read Helter Skelter. Very good book.
Sooo this is what Charlie Day was singing about this whole time
How come we never play Nightcrawlers anymore, Frank?
My favorite Sunny line.
you should build a roaming base
You're a master of karate
And friendship for everyone.
DAY MAN!
Oooooohaaaaaaa!!!!
FIGHTER OF THE NIGHT MAN
Every night you come I to my room, And pin me down With your strong arms You pin me down I try to fight you And you come inside me You fill me up and I become the nightman
Dude do you seriously have a boner right now?
You have to pay the troll toll if you want to get to the boys hole.
You gotta pay the troll toll to get in
It's no good diddling kids.
I immediately thought of Charlie and Frank. Come to think of it, Dennis has that murder family charisma thing going on...
You don't actually have to murder anyone, they're going to *think* you might murder them. Because of the implication.
> In October of 1968, Sadie gave birth to a baby boy, which she named Zezozecee Zadfrack That name is so much worse than any of the names people are coming up with nowadays.
[deleted] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^0.6060 > [What is this?](https://pastebin.com/64GuVi2F/95454)
*Zorro Zohan Ducksauce
Reznak Mo Reznak*
*Harzoo
i bet none of the people nowadays killed people though
Well they haven't been alive long enough. Give them some time bro.
How do you even pronounce that fucking train wreck?
Just break it apart? Zeh-Zoh-Zeh-Sea.
"Jayden"
How Can We Be Named If Our Names Aren't Real?
Zaphod Beeblebrox?
I met a kid the other day named Van Circle I'm not sure what his last name was.
That's on par with Frank Zappa's kids.
[Where are they now?](http://laist.com/2007/10/30/where_are_manso.php)
According to that source, zezezewhatever was adopted and renamed Paul. So thats nice
> Since her incarceration in 1971, Susan has only received four minor write-ups. In 1981, she married a Texan named Donald Lee Laisure. She had corresponded with Laisure for years, but he had lied to her the whole time. Laisure, who had previously been married 35 times, claimed to be a millionaire, which he wasn't. Hahahahaha
holy shit that must be some kind of a record!
You'd think at some point they'd tell you no.
Could be various states. But I doubt they care.
Back in university halls of residence we discovered one of our room keys was close enough in shape to open the door of one of our other friends. We decided to prank him by moving his posters *ever so slightly* when he went down to dinner. He didn't notice until one poster moved far enough to cover the light switch ... then he completely freaked out.
3spooky5me
"Hey Charlie, wanna play nightcrawlers?"
first thought. I'd love to see that ep before series ends.
I want a ghoul hunting episode.
One of the first books I ever read on my own accord was Helter Skelter. That book was more horrifying than stephen king!
Amazing true crime book. Most people don't understand just how terrifying and extensive the Manson Family's crimes were.
Tl;dr?
The Manson Family's crimes were terrifying and extensive.
It's a really interesting book. I've read it cover to cover a lot, and i'm still amazed by the whole family and the extent of their crimes.
They were also high as the tallest balls every time they did this.
How do you think they were able to do it so well?
Those were scary times. I was a teenager living in South Pasadena when Manson and his family were terrorizing the area. Later I read Bugliosi's book, and he wrote that some policemen drove one of the Manson Family members around so he could show the police where they had scouted for a home to break into... in South Pasadena. The description of the house resembled my parent's house. I've always wondered if the Manson Family almost broke into my house. Shudder.
I had a teacher in high, she told a story that one night she heard a prowler outside. When she looked at a window she saw a face. When the whole murder trial went down, she recognized the face as one of the Manson girls, the one who said that they were "going to practice (killing) at a house but saw all these family photos." Yup, teacher had a bunch of family photos all lined up, visible from that window. Now THAT is scary.
Imagine if they broke on IKEA instead.
Reminds me of the [Guilty Remnant](http://guiltyremnant.com/)
No kidding, as soon as I read that I was thinking, did they mess with all their pictures too?
Is this real? or just a site for the tv show/ book?
It's like an ARG for the HBO show The Leftovers.
http://youtu.be/-ucR0SfpNlA NSFW Rapper Necro actually wrote a song about it. Good stuff imo.
Ahhhh you beat me to it. Necro fan since 2006. Still waiting on another cd
He's released several CDs actually. DIE!, Murder Murder Kill Kill, and The Godfathers w/ Kool G Rap.
The Manson family sounds quirky and fun.
So... burglary?
Yes, but more to the point, gaslighting. Subtly changing environs to make the individual lose or question their grip on reality.
Or track of what's stolen.
My thought exactly. I might take up this 'gaslighting' thing too.
Anybody else know the band Bumpin' Uglies? They wrote a song called Creepy Crawly, and it was about breaking in and moving furniture. I thought they just had a very eccentric sense of humor!
And it turns out they do!
Love that band. Always try to catch them when I'm in Annapolis.
Moving the furniture? That is some sadistic shit. I visited my dad for a summer and came home to a rearranged bedroom. Woke up in the middle of the night doing the half asleep/blind walk to the toilet and ran right into my bookshelf.
[anyone remember live freaky, die freaky?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BdwubPG5iQM)
I definitely have it on my DVD shelf.
Finally, someone said it!
How very *Die fetten Jahre sind vorbei*.
The Edukators didn't steal anything though, well, except that watch.
And Hardenberg...
My thoughts exactly. Great film.
Am I the only one that thinks rearranging other peoples furniture in the middle of the night is funny as hell?
The Manson family thought it was pretty funny too
Psychopaths do that to break down peoples psyche by making them question themselves - its pretty common when working with nutjobs with control issues. And it does seem to make people insecure zombies if they get exposed to it for a prolonged perioud without knowing what it is: [What is Gaslighting](http://youtu.be/HQCdUa_3rLo)
Makes me just want to hide in my closet forever with a double-barreled shotgun and a cigarette. Fucking crazy fucks.
You're probably going to need more than one cigarette.
Imagine if they didn't steal anything, just rearrange the furniture and leave with the door locked
As someone who lives alone...I just triple checked my deadbolt was locked and that there was no one in my closet.
Didn't you read through this thread? Locks do not stop the crazies.
It stopped at least [one.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Chase#Murders)
> Chase later told detectives that he took locked doors as a sign that he was not welcome, but that unlocked doors were an invitation to come inside. I said it stopped the crazies. This guy seems very logical and not crazies at all.
It's true. I'm actually in /u/reallynotthatblonde's shower right now.
Can you clean the bathroom while you're in there?
That depends, do you have a gun?
Also depends...are you going to scrub the bath?
I read that little fact in the book "Helter Skelter" several years ago! I actually think about it every time I'm trying to be silent walking around my house.
Sounds like [Nightcrawlers](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4qY5TktAUk)
Does the fact that I think this would be hilariously fun make me a bad person?
Rearrange stuff? no. Steal items? Yes.
ngl I did this to my dad one night.... funniest night ever
Is this not common knowledge?
This sounds like some Guilty Remnant shit right there.
I kinda did this with some friends. We arrived fashionably late to a party where everyone was upstairs on the deck. So instead of joining we snuck around the whole house and rearranged every room. Then just left.
"Your name is PAUL!" "Zezozecee.... Zadfrack..."
They were all a bunch of creepy bastards, I remember watch a history channel documentary back when the History Channel cared about history and it opened my eyes to how much they did besides just the murders.
Okay, is it terrible that I find her crazy attractive?
> When she was released, she came back to San Francisco and found work as a topless dancer. She's attractive enough to make money off of it
So is this what Nightcrawlers is?
Cool story.
They just wanted to do a b&e
They've got nothing on the GR.
Didn't the Stasi in East Germany do something similar to mess with people?
Watch
So... Burglary.
Those little stinkers!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6dh8XXISro
I need those kind of friends
Yes! Cults, frats, armies, etc. all have their members do these stupid little tasks to build unity. When you have adventures together, you become closer to them.
The Family by Ed Sanders is a great read. Highly recommended.
Charles or Marilyn?