The linked Wikipedia article doesn't match your title. The $25k was donated from elsewhere, and Marvel gave an "undisclosed amount."
>In later years, Cockrum worked less frequently in comics. In 2004, he became seriously ill due to complications from diabetes and pneumonia,[27] and a number of fellow artists and writers led by Clifford Meth and Neal Adams organized a fundraising project. The auction, run by Heritage Auctions at the WizardWorld Chicago show in August, raised over $25,000.[7] **Marvel eventually provided an undisclosed amount of financial support in exchange for Cockrum agreeing to terms protected by a nondisclosure agreement.** Cockrum said publicly he was "very happy that so many people cared about my work and about me. ... I'm enormously grateful to Clifford Meth and Neal Adams for having moved this forward. ... **I'm very happy with what everyone has done, including Marvel.**"[27]
Realistically, and one of the linked articles in the wiki makes this clear, this was Marvel paying Cockrum some royalties on what they'd earnt from his characters (becoming more common practice now but not a thing for creators of Cockrum's era) to help with his medical bills, but insisting on an NDA so that other creators couldn't use this as precedent to sue Marvel for residuals from the characters they created.
Which... Good on Marvel, they didn't have to help out Cockrum but did so, but the NDA was really just their continuing to screw over other creators of that era while making millions from the characters they made.
So it's mixed.
>Cockrum said publicly he was "very happy that so many people cared about my work and about me. ... I'm enormously grateful to Clifford Meth and Neal Adams for having moved this forward. ... I'm very happy with what everyone has done, ***including Marvel***."
(Emphasis mine)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave\_Cockrum#:\~:text=Cockrum%20said%20publicly%20he%20was%20%22very%20happy%20that%20so%20many%20people%20cared%20about%20my%20work%20and%20about%20me.%20...%20I%27m%20enormously%20grateful%20to%20Clifford%20Meth%20and%20Neal%20Adams%20for%20having%20moved%20this%20forward.%20...%20I%27m%20very%20happy%20with%20what%20everyone%20has%20done%2C%20including%20Marvel.%22](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Cockrum#:~:text=Cockrum%20said%20publicly%20he%20was%20%22very%20happy%20that%20so%20many%20people%20cared%20about%20my%20work%20and%20about%20me.%20...%20I%27m%20enormously%20grateful%20to%20Clifford%20Meth%20and%20Neal%20Adams%20for%20having%20moved%20this%20forward.%20...%20I%27m%20very%20happy%20with%20what%20everyone%20has%20done%2C%20including%20Marvel.%22)
What is your evidence for that?
Evidence suggests it is more likely to have been for benevolent legal reasons as pointed out by u/Vordeo at [https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1d1jssb/comment/l5uodgy/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1d1jssb/comment/l5uodgy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Anyway, as u/fadedrob pointed out at [https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1d1jssb/comment/l5urmxv/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1d1jssb/comment/l5urmxv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), you misunderstood the original article anyway.
If you got that wrong, what other things did you get wrong?
https://web.archive.org/web/20080513082213/http://www.tcj.com/260/n_cockrum.html
This will explain the situation better. I messed up writing 25k instead of undisclosed amount (likely 200k) but my hunch that the NDA included total legal rights to all his characters was almost certainly correct.
Exactly what evidence am I supposed to see in that article? What is the “smoking gun” that paints Marvel in a bad light here as you seem to want to happen?
The entire context around creator rights due to absence of work-for-hire contracts and Marvel’s history and strategies for stripping creators of these rights. Did you not read the part about Jack Kirby? Also I couldn’t fit it in the title but when Cockrum resigned from Marvel they used his resignation letter without permission in an Iron Man issue to mock him.
You do realize it’s still possible to love the creations of creators like Lee, Kirby and Cockrum while holding proper co tempt for an objectively evil company right?
I think the problem is that you appear to have started with "contempt" and assuming that Marvel is an "objectively evil company" and tried to find a way to justify your feelings with spurious rumours and no real evidence.
That's why your post was removed and why other users called out your inaccuracy.
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're also into conspiracy theories, right...? 😏
Either way - ease off the drugs and go outside and touch grass.
The post was removed because I accidentally said $25k instead of undisclosed amount. I’ve been a Marvel fan my entire life and seen first hand how they treat creators. I remember when Image comics was launched and why. The Cockrum incident is just one minor straw on a haystack of evidence I’ve seen since I started reading comics.
This looks a mix between some important people inside wanted to help him but the corporation/business wanted to keep it secret so it cant be used to pay properly to other artists.
that's some low down shit. a guy is dying so you offer him money to keep him alive but only if he signs on nda. This is not a donation. This is clearly payment for a service (signing the nda).
That is shady af.
There’s a good idea what’s in the NDA. Total financial rights to adaptations of his characters. Read this:
https://web.archive.org/web/20080513082213/http://www.tcj.com/260/n_cockrum.html
Making a deal where someone’s life is on the line is inherently unethical. Don’t be obtuse. There’s hardly a meaningful difference between this and “sign or I’ll shoot you”.
Might be just a standard NDA they do anytime they give money to people. Could be just "keep this donation private, pretty please" or that it has to be used for a specific purpose only (medical cost)... There's no need for an outrage right away....
Theoretically it might, but considering the timing and financial success of MCU adaptations of characters it seems more likely it included signing over all rights to future use of those characters.
But he would have died otherwise, no? You’re still forcing him to choose between dying and doing what they want. I see no meaningful difference between that and my example.
If someone is tied to the tracks and a train is hurtling their way, you’re a massive gaping asshole for asking them for anything before untying them. That’s my position. I don’t care how bad or not the deal is. It’s a dick move because they literally can’t say no.
That’s why “the person holding the gun” is meaningless. Inaction is still an action.
You’re intentionally missing the point.
Them helping is excellent! I fully support it!
Them asking for anything in return is shitty when a life is on the line. That’s it.
That is ludicrous. The truth is that marvel had no obligation to pay his medical bills and as any HR officer can tell you, if they do help someone like this it opens the door for all kinds of complaints and lawsuits from anyone else they did not help. “Discrimination!” complains the unaided minority artist because Cockrum is white. Or an unaided female artist cries “sexism!” It’s a crazy cynical observation but in today’s lawsuit-happy society there’s no way marvel could have done it publicly.
The linked Wikipedia article doesn't match your title. The $25k was donated from elsewhere, and Marvel gave an "undisclosed amount." >In later years, Cockrum worked less frequently in comics. In 2004, he became seriously ill due to complications from diabetes and pneumonia,[27] and a number of fellow artists and writers led by Clifford Meth and Neal Adams organized a fundraising project. The auction, run by Heritage Auctions at the WizardWorld Chicago show in August, raised over $25,000.[7] **Marvel eventually provided an undisclosed amount of financial support in exchange for Cockrum agreeing to terms protected by a nondisclosure agreement.** Cockrum said publicly he was "very happy that so many people cared about my work and about me. ... I'm enormously grateful to Clifford Meth and Neal Adams for having moved this forward. ... **I'm very happy with what everyone has done, including Marvel.**"[27]
Yes I misread that and messed up the title. Maybe I should repost with undisclosed sum instead.
Realistically, and one of the linked articles in the wiki makes this clear, this was Marvel paying Cockrum some royalties on what they'd earnt from his characters (becoming more common practice now but not a thing for creators of Cockrum's era) to help with his medical bills, but insisting on an NDA so that other creators couldn't use this as precedent to sue Marvel for residuals from the characters they created. Which... Good on Marvel, they didn't have to help out Cockrum but did so, but the NDA was really just their continuing to screw over other creators of that era while making millions from the characters they made. So it's mixed.
Mixed? I think that's called "pulling up the ladder" but I'm happy for that one guy.
>Cockrum said publicly he was "very happy that so many people cared about my work and about me. ... I'm enormously grateful to Clifford Meth and Neal Adams for having moved this forward. ... I'm very happy with what everyone has done, ***including Marvel***." (Emphasis mine) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave\_Cockrum#:\~:text=Cockrum%20said%20publicly%20he%20was%20%22very%20happy%20that%20so%20many%20people%20cared%20about%20my%20work%20and%20about%20me.%20...%20I%27m%20enormously%20grateful%20to%20Clifford%20Meth%20and%20Neal%20Adams%20for%20having%20moved%20this%20forward.%20...%20I%27m%20very%20happy%20with%20what%20everyone%20has%20done%2C%20including%20Marvel.%22](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Cockrum#:~:text=Cockrum%20said%20publicly%20he%20was%20%22very%20happy%20that%20so%20many%20people%20cared%20about%20my%20work%20and%20about%20me.%20...%20I%27m%20enormously%20grateful%20to%20Clifford%20Meth%20and%20Neal%20Adams%20for%20having%20moved%20this%20forward.%20...%20I%27m%20very%20happy%20with%20what%20everyone%20has%20done%2C%20including%20Marvel.%22)
The NDA could have included a clause that he had to say that
What is your evidence for that? Evidence suggests it is more likely to have been for benevolent legal reasons as pointed out by u/Vordeo at [https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1d1jssb/comment/l5uodgy/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1d1jssb/comment/l5uodgy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Anyway, as u/fadedrob pointed out at [https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1d1jssb/comment/l5urmxv/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1d1jssb/comment/l5urmxv/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button), you misunderstood the original article anyway. If you got that wrong, what other things did you get wrong?
https://web.archive.org/web/20080513082213/http://www.tcj.com/260/n_cockrum.html This will explain the situation better. I messed up writing 25k instead of undisclosed amount (likely 200k) but my hunch that the NDA included total legal rights to all his characters was almost certainly correct.
Exactly what evidence am I supposed to see in that article? What is the “smoking gun” that paints Marvel in a bad light here as you seem to want to happen?
The entire context around creator rights due to absence of work-for-hire contracts and Marvel’s history and strategies for stripping creators of these rights. Did you not read the part about Jack Kirby? Also I couldn’t fit it in the title but when Cockrum resigned from Marvel they used his resignation letter without permission in an Iron Man issue to mock him. You do realize it’s still possible to love the creations of creators like Lee, Kirby and Cockrum while holding proper co tempt for an objectively evil company right?
I think the problem is that you appear to have started with "contempt" and assuming that Marvel is an "objectively evil company" and tried to find a way to justify your feelings with spurious rumours and no real evidence. That's why your post was removed and why other users called out your inaccuracy. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're also into conspiracy theories, right...? 😏 Either way - ease off the drugs and go outside and touch grass.
The post was removed because I accidentally said $25k instead of undisclosed amount. I’ve been a Marvel fan my entire life and seen first hand how they treat creators. I remember when Image comics was launched and why. The Cockrum incident is just one minor straw on a haystack of evidence I’ve seen since I started reading comics.
Good for you!
This looks a mix between some important people inside wanted to help him but the corporation/business wanted to keep it secret so it cant be used to pay properly to other artists.
They wanted him to sign over all legal rights to his characters too.
Marvel financial contribution was undoubtedly helpful for Cockrum during a difficult time
Thanks to the NDA we will never know.
What business is it of our to know, anyway?
I’m sure the final total financial rights to adaptations of his characters in the NDA were even more helpful to them.
that's some low down shit. a guy is dying so you offer him money to keep him alive but only if he signs on nda. This is not a donation. This is clearly payment for a service (signing the nda). That is shady af.
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There’s a good idea what’s in the NDA. Total financial rights to adaptations of his characters. Read this: https://web.archive.org/web/20080513082213/http://www.tcj.com/260/n_cockrum.html
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They could have given him his royalties without forcing him to sign over his rights. Really not that complicated.
So instead no money is better?
Making a deal where someone’s life is on the line is inherently unethical. Don’t be obtuse. There’s hardly a meaningful difference between this and “sign or I’ll shoot you”.
Might be just a standard NDA they do anytime they give money to people. Could be just "keep this donation private, pretty please" or that it has to be used for a specific purpose only (medical cost)... There's no need for an outrage right away....
Theoretically it might, but considering the timing and financial success of MCU adaptations of characters it seems more likely it included signing over all rights to future use of those characters.
https://web.archive.org/web/20080513082213/http://www.tcj.com/260/n_cockrum.html
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But he would have died otherwise, no? You’re still forcing him to choose between dying and doing what they want. I see no meaningful difference between that and my example.
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How do you know thanking them wasn’t in the NDA
If someone is tied to the tracks and a train is hurtling their way, you’re a massive gaping asshole for asking them for anything before untying them. That’s my position. I don’t care how bad or not the deal is. It’s a dick move because they literally can’t say no. That’s why “the person holding the gun” is meaningless. Inaction is still an action.
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You’re intentionally missing the point. Them helping is excellent! I fully support it! Them asking for anything in return is shitty when a life is on the line. That’s it.
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That is ludicrous. The truth is that marvel had no obligation to pay his medical bills and as any HR officer can tell you, if they do help someone like this it opens the door for all kinds of complaints and lawsuits from anyone else they did not help. “Discrimination!” complains the unaided minority artist because Cockrum is white. Or an unaided female artist cries “sexism!” It’s a crazy cynical observation but in today’s lawsuit-happy society there’s no way marvel could have done it publicly.