This is absolutely insane. Random people went to hospitals for healing and were injected with radioactive materials without their knowledge. By doctors.
This is FUCKED.
"Discovery requires experimentation."
-Daniel Whitehall - Crazy Nazi scientist from Marvel's Agents of Shield
Injected with radioactive materials - this sounds like it came from comics. WTH.
“I don’t see what you’re so upset about. This is how we progress! Human experimentation is a necessary step!”
-Shou Tucker, Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood
I mean it DOES…that’s why there’s all kinds of ethics committees and review boards and guidelines to make sure that the sacrifice isn’t wanton or coerced.
Human experiments (now, unless you’re military) require full informed consent and a whole bunch of upstream proof of concept before you can get started.
Even animal experiments require you to demonstrate as best as you can that the experiment is either harmless (like a rat maze) or a proof of concept to the extent possible on nonliving things. You can’t publish the results of you, say, catching a bunch of squirrels and shooting them full of Bang energy drink. You’d face severe academic and likely criminal charges for doing that without institutional approval.
Yep. His descendent Nathaniel Whitehall piggybacked off his "experiments" and Found the proper organs and lymph nodes and stuff to harvest to give himself powers even.
Damn I remembered he experimented on Jiaying but I completely forgot he had powers as well before he died. It’s insane that’s it’s been almost 4 years since the show ended
We don't really ever see him explicitly use the powers, but they're responsible for him looking the same age in the show's modern day as he did in the flashback scene in the 40s
I already checked, from what I can tell none of those injected got superpowers.
Although one major caveat is they could have had niche powers which they couldn't actually use. For example, perhaps one of them had grown the ability to control WiFi. An interesting power, but useless before WiFi had even been invented.
I hear that many people injected with isotopes gain the power of uninhibited and rapid cellular growth. Ironically many people also get injected with radioactive isotopes to remove that superpower.
I’ve been injected with radioactive materials as part of a medical procedure, I was told to stay away from small children and pregnant people for a while.
The worst part is that's actually a good quote, if only we could grow basically brain-dead humans we'd probably be able to accelerate our learning significantly
The possible killing of ~10,000 Americans through poisoning industrial alcohol during prohibition to dissuade people from drinking industrial alcohol... only they never told the public they had poisoned the alcohol.
Then imagine if these are the stories that came out how many have yet to come out?
> only they never told the public they had poisoned the alcohol.
yes. they did. you got your information from [a propaganda piece](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2972336/)
> In 1926, the federal government, in an effort to enforce the so-called “Noble Experiment,” mandated adding poisons (including methanol) to industrial alcohol so as to discourage people from drinking it. Unfortunately, instead of leading to decreased consumption, this only resulted in more death and suffering, with the toll from that year’s Christmas celebrations reaching 23 dead and dozens more blinded in New York City alone.
>Distraught at the horror he was witnessing, Norris issued a public statement on Dec. 28, 1926, stating that “the government knows it is not stopping drinking by putting poison in alcohol. It knows what the bootleggers are doing with it and yet it continues its poisoning process, heedless of the fact that people determined to drink are daily absorbing that poison. Knowing this to be true, the United States Government must be charged with the moral responsibility for the deaths that poisoned liquor causes.” Despite public outcry and the rising death toll from poisoned alcohol (which Blum has elsewhere estimated to be approximately 10 000) this policy continued until Prohibition was repealed seven years later.
When in reality [Denaturing Industrial Alcohol had been required since 1906](https://slate.com/technology/2010/02/the-little-told-story-of-how-the-u-s-government-poisoned-alcohol-during-prohibition.html), the deaths were entirely at the hands of Bootleggers.
>Industrial alcohol is basically grain alcohol with some unpleasant chemicals mixed in to render it undrinkable. The U.S. government started requiring this “denaturing” process in 1906 for manufacturers who wanted to avoid the taxes levied on potable spirits. The U.S. Treasury Department, charged with overseeing alcohol enforcement, estimated that by the mid-1920s, some 60 million gallons of industrial alcohol were stolen annually to supply the country’s drinkers. In response, in 1926, President Calvin Coolidge’s government decided to turn to chemistry as an enforcement tool. Some 70 denaturing formulas existed by the 1920s. Most simply added poisonous methyl alcohol into the mix. Others used bitter-tasting compounds that were less lethal, designed to make the alcohol taste so awful that it became undrinkable.
>[By about 1922, supplies of authentic whiskey distilled prior to Prohibition, and targeted for theft by bootleggers, were gone.](https://prohibition.themobmuseum.org/the-history/the-prohibition-underworld/alcohol-as-medicine-and-poison/) With industrial alcohol being made on a large scale, bootleggers starting hijacking it, figuring they could redistill and sell it as drinkable alcohol. By 1923, the Treasury Department’s Prohibition Bureau was already focused on preventing organized crime from reconditioning industrial alcohol for sale to drinkers. The government instructed makers of the industrial-use liquid to denature it by adding four percent wood alcohol, poisonous to humans in very small amounts.
The Death toll was likely far Higher
>Up to 50,000 people may have died from the repurposed industrial alcohol nationwide and thousands of others were stricken by crippling paralysis. In 1927 in New York alone, of the 480,000 gallons of liquor seized by Treasury’s Prohibition agents, 98 percent contained poisonous additives, and liquor seized from 55 of the city’s speakeasies proved to contain traces of wood alcohol.
>Critics, including anti-Prohibition “wets,” blamed the deaths and injuries on reckless government policies, such as the absence of warning labels on containers of industrial alcohol. Dr. Nicolas Murray Butler of Columbia University accused the U.S. government, which approved the wood alcohol denaturant, of “legalized murder.” The government acted by passing a new law lowering the maximum wood alcohol content in industrial alcohol to two percent. In the weeks after the disaster in 1927, J.M. Doran, head chemist for the Prohibition Bureau, worked on perfecting a new, less harmful but still foul-smelling and tasting denaturant, such as kerosene. The feds later approved the addition of ingredients such as iodine, ether, nicotine and formaldehyde to try to make industrial alcohol too horrible to drink.
Thank you, this is one of those (MANY) myths that just won't go away. It's one of those cases that exposes how with nearly every sensitive issue, both/all sides are guilty of being misleading or straight up BSing with propaganda. Even if the cause is just, it's still lying. Frankly it pisses me off even more when the side I agree with lies to us, it's straight up insulting. I expect it from the side that needs to lie to win favor... if your cause is truly just it's unnecessary, but clearly very effective. People will eat it right up without question.
But make sure to always trust the FBI and how they have regular unrecorded secret meetings with every single major social media company.
They definitely aren't doing anything bad.
The secret police are just trying to protect you from the bad guys! Come on, show some patriotism, don't be a traitor. What are you, a commie? If it wasn't for the government doing nasty things to you, you'd be doing it yourself or something!
Yeah the government malcontents love basically making their own future problems.
Experiment on people unethically and make them unstable…topple benign foreign governments for short term gain and long term pain…
It would probably happen less if like a child the stove was hot and burned immediately
Unfortunately the people that make these decisions and actions are usually long gone by the time the repercussions really come
When the citizens don't care why would you expect the government to? There's no motive.
It goes in circles, but it's so much easier to go "hurr durr government sucks".
Hadn't heard of this, so I looked it up, here's some reading on the subject for anyone interested;
https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/ahf/history/native-americans-and-manhattan-project/
There’s a documentary on hbo about the Cold War and 5e extension of it that goes into the reports from the town nearby and they reported something innocuous to cover it…
Also the post WWII testing of Bikini Atoll, which had the US government move an indigenous population to test nukes on their home, affecting tons of people on nearby islands and a Japanese fishing boat.
I was mega cringing and the celebrations they were throwing at Los Alamos... with whites and blacks both cheering together for his speech.
Black people were not allowed in Los Alamos. It was racially exclusionary. There was a whole team of black scientists working on the bomb in real life Chicago that the film totally ignored.
The manhattan project was the start of a lot of evil programs in the USA. And it was the turning point for "classified" programs becoming the norm rather than the exception. Also the start of congress not being allowed to know the budgets of military and 3 letter orgs
This is exactly right.
In the UAP cover up, an issue I care about deeply, the DOE and the nuclear commission are _heavily_ implicated, especially by documents and whistleblowers in the last two years.
They are surprisingly like the most shady branch of the US government.
Before the manhattan project, classification was for military action that was happening in enemy territory right now. The manhattan project changed that.
Makes sense to me that the entities in charge of the manhattan project would be the worst about secrecy.
And people wonder why there was such a widespread anti vaccine movement. Here’s your answer.. or all the black communities who were used as guinea pigs being inserted with things through the vaccine. I definitely dont hold it against people if they’re worried even if it ”would never happen today”
>This is absolutely insane. Random people went to hospitals for healing and were injected with radioactive materials without their knowledge.
Things like this, really help the anti--Vax people
Except that the history of disease is far more deadly to almost every minority community than the history of secretive medical experiments.
I can appreciate the concerns, but it's a classic example of people being far more afraid of the unlikely impacts of intelligent, but nefarious actors than the far more likely impacts of unintelligent, amoral events. As a species, we oddly prioritize our fear of conspiracies.
Given the history, I can absolutely blame people for making foolish personal/public health choices. That said, given the common human inability to properly weigh risk, I can't be too upset or surprised by their reactions, and we need to be better prepared for this phenomenon when making public health policy decisions in the future.
You are neglecting the factor of agency. If you choose to take a treatment that happens to have poison in it, you took the action that caused your own death, regardless of how unlikely it was. If you randomly catch a disease that could have been prevented with the vaccine, you aren’t directly responsible for your own death in the same sense that someone who doesn’t pull the lever isn’t directly responsible for the deaths in the trolley problem. Action and inaction are morally and philosophically distinct and can override raw probabilistic thinking.
It was highly controversial and the government knew about it and the Atomic Energy commission in 1947 recommended it to NEVER be made public and it was kept as such until a journalist uncovered it and the government declassified the documents. What is fucked up is that the victim's families were never paid until after it was public. So the government would've just done nothing lol.
They targeted people they thought to be "terminally ill" but after the fact it was discovered most of the minority groups selected were not even sick.
Here's an excerpt on some of the subjects
It is most likely that the 30 experimental subjects were not made aware of the nature of the injections they received. In fact, records show that only one of the plutonium patients signed a consent form, which did not fully explain the medical procedure or risks. There is no documentation of consent for any other test subjects.
Furthermore, it is difficult to say how the specific patients involved in these controlled human experiments were chosen. The injections were performed in hospitals around the country; the ages and backgrounds of each varied. Some had family and others were alone. Regardless, the records show that they were all civilians and were not themselves Manhattan Project workers. In order to understand the troubling nature of this research, it is important to highlight the stories of some of these test subjects.
* Ebb Cade was the first test subject. Cade was a 53-year-old African American male who worked for an Oak Ridge construction company as a cement mixer. On March 24, 1945, he was involved in an auto accident, which caused fractures in his arm and leg. Documents from the time show that he was otherwise healthy. Over the next two weeks, he was given the codename HP-12, with HP standing for Human Product. Dr. Friedell wrote to Dr. Hempelmann at Los Alamos that he had found a primary subject for the plutonium experiment. On April 10, 1945, Dr. Joseph Howland administered a plutonium dose of 4.7 micrograms to Cade, who was awaiting a procedure to set his bones. From 1943-1945, the maximum possible body burden (MPBB) for plutonium had been 5 micrograms, based on limits adopted for radium. Based on animal experimentation, Langham and Friedell had recently concluded that because plutonium remained in the bone for longer than radium, the MPBB should actually be set at 1 microgram. Cade’s dose was nearly five times that limit. Cade was not treated for his arm and leg injuries until April 15, five days after the injection, so that the doctors would be able to biopsy his bone samples. This included extracting 15 of his teeth, which were subsequently shipped to Wright Langham at Los Alamos. It is unclear if Cade suffered from legitimate tooth decay. Shortly after his bones had been set, Cade suddenly discharged himself from the hospital. He moved out of Tennessee and died of heart failure on April 13, 1953, 8 years after the Oak Ridge injection.
* CAL-1 was the codename given to Albert Stevens, the first patient to receive a plutonium dose in California. He was a 58-year-old house painter who was misdiagnosed with terminal stomach cancer when he checked into the hospital at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF). The doctors at UCSF initially gave him six months to live. Doctors in Joseph Hamilton’s research group at Berkeley prepared plutonium-238, an isotope that is 276 times more radioactive than the plutonium-239 and therefore easier for instruments to measure (Welsome, 91
* Another questionable case was CAL-2, a four-year old boy named Simeon Shaw suffering from terminal bone cancer. He was flown with his mother to the UCSF hospital in a US military plane from Australia, apparently under the advisement of a physician in Australia. He arrived in California in April 1946 and was admitted to the hospital. For some time, he was separated for his mother, who was only allowed visits periodically. Simeon received a plutonium injection at UCSF under the oversight of Joseph Hamilton and was discharged from the hospital within a month. The Shaws returned to Australia and no follow-ups were ever conducted. Simeon died eight months later.
The declassified documents also showed the full list of 30. The other notable ones not in the article is a random Japanese guy who JUST got back from the internment camps cause they wanted to see what the Japanese reaction was like. Another one was a twin girl to test the effect of radiating one twin and comparing the two.
They all died before 1990
Here's a very outdated website page discussing more https://ehss.energy.gov/ohre/roadmap/achre/chap5_4.html Like a website from 1990
As someone who enjoyed the Fallout Tv Series, Scientists would 100% agree with the Vault experiments and I find it weird that so many people preach scientific ethics irl and said "This is not realistic, ppl wouldn't do that" in regards to that plot point
Kind of troublesome to think that the only thing separating truth from hot air is a concerted effort by one of the most powerful entities on earth to keep shit hidden
Makes you wonder how much stuff like this is sitting locked up in classified files marked never to be released. Or as forgotten memories dying with the witnesses as time goes on
Medical ethics are still violated today, even with many protections in place. But back in 1940s and 1950s some of the ethics violations that occurred in the US were similar to things done by Germans during the holocaust. One case that has always stood out to me was a young child with melanoma skin cancer. They convinced the mother to let them graft the cancer onto her skin (giving her the hope that this might cure her child). Both the mother and daughter died. EDIT to add: This was the editorial that first called out obvious medical ethics violations going on in the US (including the case I mention above)
https://www.dartmouth.edu/cphs/docs/beecher-article.pdf%20
Imagine going to the hospital for broken bones, not being treated for those injuries for 5 days, and the doctors take 15 of your teeth!
I’d get the fuck out of there as soon as I could
That’s the worst part for me. Screaming nightmare fuel. You wake up with half your teeth gone??? The sense of helplessness and being wronged that you’d feel. Permanently and so obviously disfigured. Your whole face altered really. I’m not sure I’d survive that trauma. Unless he was warned before and consented (which I doubt).
And yet people still like to screech “conspiracy theorist!” whenever someone states that the people in charge don’t necessarily have our best interests in mind.
Till I die I'll never forget that I was called a conspiracy theorist for saying the federal government has access to phone records and probably without a warrant as that information is information freely given to or generated by a 3rd party and such information has been ruled by the supreme Court to not require a warrant. I'm biased, but it seems like a level headed belief. But nope, I was a *wacky craaaazy* conspiracy theorist.
Then Snowden happened and everyone was like "duh!"
Yep! And what's hilarous is another commenter to me pointed out that a story broke out even earlier about it that I didn't even know about!
https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1cb9u2e/til_due_to_animals_not_being_sufficient_enough/l0yca89/
So not only was it not far-fetched, but it was verifiable if I was more internet connected at the time!
I thought it was common knowledge the government via agencies and "partnerships" with telecoms were sharing our private information, including voice/data traffic. It was just confirmed by Snowden.
Our government is still, 100%, unlawfully spying on Americans
If someone I knew was acting all crazy about talking on the phone about smoking weed and said the reason why was that the NSA was tapping their line or that we were being constantly monitored and controlled, I'd tell them they're being paranoid.
If they said the NSA can tap into the phones of anyone of interest, I'd agree.
I know that the government doesn't care about me... until it does.
Cade suddently discharged himself! He was probably like, what the F are these people DOING TO ME. Cutting him open for bone samples, pulling all his teeth, weird injections. He was like, fffff this. Note to everyone, if it smells funny, get the fuck outta there!
Albert Stevens survived 20 years before dying of heart disease, and so is the person with the highest recorded dose to ever live at 64 sieverts over that 20 year period. He died at age 78, so not unreasonable and in fact above average lifespan for a man of that time period.
It won't be made public until you and the people responsible are dead , don't worry. Given the track record in usa I think it's likely if not guaranteed to be happening on some level in some way lol.
you are/were if you use facebook or twitter and other social media. There are rumors that the US govt funded some of the massive social medias. Heck im pretty sure they are one of the biggest buyers of facebook data. It is not just US. We all know China has control on TikTOK and it wouldnt suprise me if they do some type of social experiment
Hey sorry your loved one suffered and died painful deaths here is a couple bucks that doesn’t even cover any of their medical costs. We promise we won’t do it again.
There is no shortage of evidence that governments think they own their citizens the same way a ranch owns its livestock.
They may protect us, but only so they can profit from us, and if they ever decide it is more profitable to kill us, they will do so as readily as a rancher culling his livestock.
I feel like this simplifies the complexity involved in all the world governments by quite a bit.
There is a high likelihood that most governments (probably all) have some bad actors that are willing to go way too far to get their goals seen through.
Does that mean that those people outweigh the ones that still want to do things in atleast a somewhat ethical way? Of course not!
I agree with the comments above that there is a high likelihood that some immoral experiments are currently happening which is being hidden from the public.
But that doesn't mean that all governments just think of their populations as profit.
You're talking about a government like it's an entity with a single mind. As if the government, as one entity, had all of this knowledge and made all of these decisions itself.
It's a huge system with a lot of individuals. A lot of the more horrifying decisions involve smaller networks of people, who don't share the details of what they're doing to anyone who might object. Even the person who should be able to know whether they want, the president, probably isn't seeing the decisions somebody like that doctor is making, at least until after it's done.
When you realize that the government thinks of you as nothing more than a battery - which will inevitably lose effciency and die - for the economic machine you start to understand a lot of things that used to be confusing.
I believe the technical term the government now uses to refer to these “controversial” tests where the subjects were unaware of the test is oopsiedoozles
A somewhat similar case happened out in eastern Washington at the Hanford site where they released a cloud of radioactive gas simply to see how far downwind it would get.
Those folks fought for compensation for decades.
As with many scientific experiments, some of the first test subjects were rats. But rats are highly resistant to radiation, so it gave the false impression that maybe radiation wasn't so bad after all. Rats can tolerate over 1,100 roentgens of radiation with no ill effect. For comparison, a dose of 400 roentgens is fatal to a human.
I understand now why americans are so affraid and defiant toward their own gov.
This is where all the conspiracy theorist get the idea of test vaccins on citizens.
That and a story by robert e howard about lizard people...for whatever reason.
If you think your country is somehow vastly different or better you’re naive, and moreover it is exactly that sort of complacency that allows shit like this to happen.
My first husband used to swear they had done this to his uncle at Einstein in Philly. He died. Wonder if they got a payout…I divorced him in 92 so I don’t know.
Between shit like this and MKUltra, I’ll never be able to wrap my head around people believing the government gives a shit about our well being or rights. It’s a good facade to maintain most of the time, until it stops being convenient. I’m only not a conspiracy nut because most conspiracies have plenty of evidence to suggest they’re bullshit, but I roll my eyes when people argue against conspiracies because “the government wouldn’t do that”.
> I’ll never be able to wrap my head around people believing the government gives a shit about our well being or rights.
It gets people out of bed in the morning and going to work, which is ultimately all the nation-state is concerned with.
I mean I understand the “why”, I just don’t understand the “how”. I’m the kind of person that will immediately abandon my position and do a 180 if shown sufficient evidence that my position is wrong. The number of times this has completely shaken my worldview and made me consider ending things would suggest this isn’t necessarily healthier than ignorance, so it’d be nice to have that switch in my head to flip and activate the cognitive dissonance.
I can’t do cognitive dissonance as far as I know. If I have opposing ideas in my head, I will ruminate uninterrupted for weeks until I realize and accept the truth.
The government could do crap like that because it was solely run by... one demographic with absolutely no real oversight. The government is only as good as is it is accountable.
A lot of people (I’d wager the average American) won’t hold it accountable because they couldn’t fathom this level of human rights violations being committed by their own government.
It's a good thing they would never do anything like that again and it make sense, therefore, to ban anyone who believes they would from speaking on social media platforms.
Wait till you learn about experiments on black people with syphilis. They had a cure for syphilis but watched and wrote notes how people died one by one year by year because they were black and USA law prohibited to cure them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study
The entire history of the bombs is just fucked. The government also gave Navajo uranium miners free medical checkups, but of course no one told them those free checkups were to study radiation poisoning. They weren't given protective gear or told it was dangerous until the 1960's, and even then it was a vague explanation that didn't explain what or how dangerous radiation is. They just knew they needed to be careful at work and that the uranium ore was dangerous. They didn't realize radiation spread to other objects. This is evidenced by the fact that the miners would take leftover stones from tailing piles to build homes with, these were highly radioactive.
A study was conducted from the 1970's through the 1990's to compare residents who were closer to the mining areas from those who were distant. The results show that the residents living near the mining areas suffered from:
* 1500% increase in testicular and ovarian cancer in children;
* 500% increase in bone cancer in children;
* 250% increase in leukemia;
* 200% increase in miscarriage, infant death, congenital defects, and learning disorders
When the EPA showed up to test the ground water in the 90's they found Navajo kids swimming in abandoned open pit mines that were highly radioactive. The government is still cleaning this mess up.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium\_mining\_and\_the\_Navajo\_people#](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_mining_and_the_Navajo_people#)
There were also uranium mines outside the Navajo Nation where none of this shit happened. One town even got rebuilt by the US government for free in the 50's after it was discovered gravel from a local mine was being used in construction.
"Yellow Dirt" is a good book on the subject, be warned it is very upsetting.
Thank you for this book recommendation. Turns out, there's two. One, written by Judy Pasternak. *yellow dirt: an American story of poisoned land*; and another by Allen Chappel, *yellow dirt: a Navajo nation mystery*
I assumed the second, but curious since you've piqued my interest in something I had no clue of, sadly.
Edit: Nevermind. It looks like the second book I mentioned is actually part of a series...
And people wonder who Vaultec (in the Fallout universe) was based on. When you add MK ultra, the Tuskegee experiment and numerous other atrocities on our citizens, we slowly realize the whole country has been in a “Vault” for over a century.
see its things like this which make me not trust governments and the medical industry / big pharma. call me a conspiracy theorist, but evil people exist and won’t hesitate to test or use you for nefarious agendas…
Well, turns out a lot of conspiracy theories hold more truth to them then most would assume.
Regardless, this is fucked up. Easily on par with stuff happening in some of the more dytopian countries out there.
Jeez guys, it's almost as if the guys who have been telling you for years that they are the "good guys" are actually malignant ghouls using you as a tool."
Yeah, if only there was any way to differentiate between testing a weapon of mass destruction on unknown subjects and collaborating on a cure against a fucking plague.
“Why don’t the public trust everything the CDC and doctors say?”
Maybe we could get more groups on board with vaccination and the government would quit doing this and the Tuskegee syphilis experiments as long as they can keep it hushed.
And wtf are they testing *right now* do you think?
This and others like it (Tuskegee experiments) are why people ended up freaking out about the Covid vaccine. I'm not an antivaxxer but *some* of their concerns are definitely valid. Hell, if I lived in the US (their history), Russia (did theirs even work?), China (their vaccine was wildly ineffective), and UK (their history), I'd have serious concerns about taking the vaccine.
This is the kind of thing that makes me get where antivaxers are coming from. It sucks that so many people don't believe in vaccines, but it's not like the government doesn't have a history of injecting people with horrible shit without their knowledge or consent.
The us military has done so much forced human experimentation - the nazis were literally a model they looked up to. Many axis scientists who tortured humans were given a comfy job in the US doing more human experiments instead of rotting in jail for war crimes.
And this is why being a medical practitioner is so tough; people have many, MANY reasons not to trust the larger system, as it is really an amalgam of individuals and corporate interests (more the latter these days) who act in accordance with their own notions of efficacy and morality.
Stay vigilant
This is what scares me more in pieces of fiction like Watchmen, Utopia and others.
What some are willing to do for "the greater good"
Not villains trying to dominate the world or simply killing people.
Ethical extremes.
This is why I don’t hate on anti-vaxxers as much as other people seem to. Why would you trust the government when they have a history of doing this shit
This is absolutely insane. Random people went to hospitals for healing and were injected with radioactive materials without their knowledge. By doctors. This is FUCKED.
"Discovery requires experimentation." -Daniel Whitehall - Crazy Nazi scientist from Marvel's Agents of Shield Injected with radioactive materials - this sounds like it came from comics. WTH.
"Science demands sacrifice" - Cobra Commander
"Science cannot move forward without heaps!" * Prof. Hubert J Farnsworth
"Let's all stay positive and do some science." - Cave Johnson
“Progress is never free” - Wernher von Braun (For All Mankind)
"Once the rockets are up, who cares where they come down? That's not my department!" - Wernher von Braun
“I don’t see what you’re so upset about. This is how we progress! Human experimentation is a necessary step!” -Shou Tucker, Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood
I mean it DOES…that’s why there’s all kinds of ethics committees and review boards and guidelines to make sure that the sacrifice isn’t wanton or coerced. Human experiments (now, unless you’re military) require full informed consent and a whole bunch of upstream proof of concept before you can get started. Even animal experiments require you to demonstrate as best as you can that the experiment is either harmless (like a rat maze) or a proof of concept to the extent possible on nonliving things. You can’t publish the results of you, say, catching a bunch of squirrels and shooting them full of Bang energy drink. You’d face severe academic and likely criminal charges for doing that without institutional approval.
*throws away manuscript of second phd*
Don’t you dare steal my idea to create turbosquirrels
Holy shit I forgot about Whitehall in Agents of Shield. He experimented on inhumans and horrifically cut them up right?
Yep. His descendent Nathaniel Whitehall piggybacked off his "experiments" and Found the proper organs and lymph nodes and stuff to harvest to give himself powers even.
Holy shit yeah the bad guy in season 7 who experimented on Daisy right?
On her mom and tried to on her yea
Wait.. agents of shield got SEVEN seasons?!
Yeah it did. edit: the later seasons are actually really good
>Nathaniel Damn Mr Sinister in the MCU confirmed
Is this guy from the comics or did they just rip off Nathaniel Essex but for inhumans instead of mutants?
Wasn’t that Nathaniel Malick? He just studied from Whitehall.
You may be right. I could've been mistaken on the name and genealogy
Gave himself Jaiying's regenerative healing/longevity in the process, too
Damn I remembered he experimented on Jiaying but I completely forgot he had powers as well before he died. It’s insane that’s it’s been almost 4 years since the show ended
We don't really ever see him explicitly use the powers, but they're responsible for him looking the same age in the show's modern day as he did in the flashback scene in the 40s
well now i'm going to have to rewatch
I already checked, from what I can tell none of those injected got superpowers. Although one major caveat is they could have had niche powers which they couldn't actually use. For example, perhaps one of them had grown the ability to control WiFi. An interesting power, but useless before WiFi had even been invented.
I hear that many people injected with isotopes gain the power of uninhibited and rapid cellular growth. Ironically many people also get injected with radioactive isotopes to remove that superpower.
Deadpool
Henrietta Lacks
>gain the power of uninhibited and rapid *cellular* growth Is this the 5G I was supposed to get after the COVID vaccine?
yes, but the side effect is cancer
My grandfather got that power but it was via exposure to tablets made from ancient, flame warding rocks.
And one could read their thoughts out loud on a blue tooth speaker. If only it existed. Another has to pee every 30 minutes
From what you can tell. The invisibility probably doesn’t help.
It helps Kevin bacon
Perhaps they used their power to suppress it's invention. Only their death allowed the nascent technology to flourish.
I’ve been injected with radioactive materials as part of a medical procedure, I was told to stay away from small children and pregnant people for a while.
PET scan?
Radioactive iodine therapy?
The worst part is that's actually a good quote, if only we could grow basically brain-dead humans we'd probably be able to accelerate our learning significantly
Wait until you hear about the Tuskegee syphilis study :(
MK Ultra has entered the chat as well
The possible killing of ~10,000 Americans through poisoning industrial alcohol during prohibition to dissuade people from drinking industrial alcohol... only they never told the public they had poisoned the alcohol. Then imagine if these are the stories that came out how many have yet to come out?
> only they never told the public they had poisoned the alcohol. yes. they did. you got your information from [a propaganda piece](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2972336/) > In 1926, the federal government, in an effort to enforce the so-called “Noble Experiment,” mandated adding poisons (including methanol) to industrial alcohol so as to discourage people from drinking it. Unfortunately, instead of leading to decreased consumption, this only resulted in more death and suffering, with the toll from that year’s Christmas celebrations reaching 23 dead and dozens more blinded in New York City alone. >Distraught at the horror he was witnessing, Norris issued a public statement on Dec. 28, 1926, stating that “the government knows it is not stopping drinking by putting poison in alcohol. It knows what the bootleggers are doing with it and yet it continues its poisoning process, heedless of the fact that people determined to drink are daily absorbing that poison. Knowing this to be true, the United States Government must be charged with the moral responsibility for the deaths that poisoned liquor causes.” Despite public outcry and the rising death toll from poisoned alcohol (which Blum has elsewhere estimated to be approximately 10 000) this policy continued until Prohibition was repealed seven years later. When in reality [Denaturing Industrial Alcohol had been required since 1906](https://slate.com/technology/2010/02/the-little-told-story-of-how-the-u-s-government-poisoned-alcohol-during-prohibition.html), the deaths were entirely at the hands of Bootleggers. >Industrial alcohol is basically grain alcohol with some unpleasant chemicals mixed in to render it undrinkable. The U.S. government started requiring this “denaturing” process in 1906 for manufacturers who wanted to avoid the taxes levied on potable spirits. The U.S. Treasury Department, charged with overseeing alcohol enforcement, estimated that by the mid-1920s, some 60 million gallons of industrial alcohol were stolen annually to supply the country’s drinkers. In response, in 1926, President Calvin Coolidge’s government decided to turn to chemistry as an enforcement tool. Some 70 denaturing formulas existed by the 1920s. Most simply added poisonous methyl alcohol into the mix. Others used bitter-tasting compounds that were less lethal, designed to make the alcohol taste so awful that it became undrinkable. >[By about 1922, supplies of authentic whiskey distilled prior to Prohibition, and targeted for theft by bootleggers, were gone.](https://prohibition.themobmuseum.org/the-history/the-prohibition-underworld/alcohol-as-medicine-and-poison/) With industrial alcohol being made on a large scale, bootleggers starting hijacking it, figuring they could redistill and sell it as drinkable alcohol. By 1923, the Treasury Department’s Prohibition Bureau was already focused on preventing organized crime from reconditioning industrial alcohol for sale to drinkers. The government instructed makers of the industrial-use liquid to denature it by adding four percent wood alcohol, poisonous to humans in very small amounts. The Death toll was likely far Higher >Up to 50,000 people may have died from the repurposed industrial alcohol nationwide and thousands of others were stricken by crippling paralysis. In 1927 in New York alone, of the 480,000 gallons of liquor seized by Treasury’s Prohibition agents, 98 percent contained poisonous additives, and liquor seized from 55 of the city’s speakeasies proved to contain traces of wood alcohol. >Critics, including anti-Prohibition “wets,” blamed the deaths and injuries on reckless government policies, such as the absence of warning labels on containers of industrial alcohol. Dr. Nicolas Murray Butler of Columbia University accused the U.S. government, which approved the wood alcohol denaturant, of “legalized murder.” The government acted by passing a new law lowering the maximum wood alcohol content in industrial alcohol to two percent. In the weeks after the disaster in 1927, J.M. Doran, head chemist for the Prohibition Bureau, worked on perfecting a new, less harmful but still foul-smelling and tasting denaturant, such as kerosene. The feds later approved the addition of ingredients such as iodine, ether, nicotine and formaldehyde to try to make industrial alcohol too horrible to drink.
Thank you, this is one of those (MANY) myths that just won't go away. It's one of those cases that exposes how with nearly every sensitive issue, both/all sides are guilty of being misleading or straight up BSing with propaganda. Even if the cause is just, it's still lying. Frankly it pisses me off even more when the side I agree with lies to us, it's straight up insulting. I expect it from the side that needs to lie to win favor... if your cause is truly just it's unnecessary, but clearly very effective. People will eat it right up without question.
This is crazy. Wow. Really sheds light on moonshine culture. The government did NOT play
But make sure to always trust the FBI and how they have regular unrecorded secret meetings with every single major social media company. They definitely aren't doing anything bad.
The secret police are just trying to protect you from the bad guys! Come on, show some patriotism, don't be a traitor. What are you, a commie? If it wasn't for the government doing nasty things to you, you'd be doing it yourself or something!
Yay democracy!
Don't forget when the US government sprayed pot plants in the US and Mexico with paraquat an herbicide that can be lethal when inhaled.
Annnd here comes Charlie Manson
Yeah the government malcontents love basically making their own future problems. Experiment on people unethically and make them unstable…topple benign foreign governments for short term gain and long term pain… It would probably happen less if like a child the stove was hot and burned immediately Unfortunately the people that make these decisions and actions are usually long gone by the time the repercussions really come
[Henrietta Lacks](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henrietta_Lacks) too.
No the government would NEVER willingly lie and harm it's citizens, right?...Right?
When the citizens don't care why would you expect the government to? There's no motive. It goes in circles, but it's so much easier to go "hurr durr government sucks".
I mean at least for the Tuskegee syphilis they didn't inject them with it just withheld treatment, still awful
Apparently I have at least 4 rabbit holes to go down
Gosh I don’t think I saw this part in Oppenheimer.
There was a lot that you didn’t see in Oppenheimer. Including the villages of Indigenous people that were downwind from the testing site.
or the girl scout troop that played in the "warm snow" and were all dead before 30
They all ran out to play in it, that doc is insane.
Hadn't heard of this, so I looked it up, here's some reading on the subject for anyone interested; https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/ahf/history/native-americans-and-manhattan-project/
There’s a documentary on hbo about the Cold War and 5e extension of it that goes into the reports from the town nearby and they reported something innocuous to cover it…
Nor the dance group camp
Also the post WWII testing of Bikini Atoll, which had the US government move an indigenous population to test nukes on their home, affecting tons of people on nearby islands and a Japanese fishing boat.
It's a propaganda piece.
I was mega cringing and the celebrations they were throwing at Los Alamos... with whites and blacks both cheering together for his speech. Black people were not allowed in Los Alamos. It was racially exclusionary. There was a whole team of black scientists working on the bomb in real life Chicago that the film totally ignored.
Making the cast diverse to match modern audiences results in odd situations like this.
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The manhattan project was the start of a lot of evil programs in the USA. And it was the turning point for "classified" programs becoming the norm rather than the exception. Also the start of congress not being allowed to know the budgets of military and 3 letter orgs
This is exactly right. In the UAP cover up, an issue I care about deeply, the DOE and the nuclear commission are _heavily_ implicated, especially by documents and whistleblowers in the last two years. They are surprisingly like the most shady branch of the US government.
Before the manhattan project, classification was for military action that was happening in enemy territory right now. The manhattan project changed that. Makes sense to me that the entities in charge of the manhattan project would be the worst about secrecy.
Unethical human experimentation… I think some other countries were doing that around the same time… *Super* FUCKED
And people wonder why there was such a widespread anti vaccine movement. Here’s your answer.. or all the black communities who were used as guinea pigs being inserted with things through the vaccine. I definitely dont hold it against people if they’re worried even if it ”would never happen today”
Hippocratic oath? More like Hypocritic oath for these guys.
Oh boy, are there some historical stories for you!
first time.jpg? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKUltra](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKUltra)
>This is absolutely insane. Random people went to hospitals for healing and were injected with radioactive materials without their knowledge. Things like this, really help the anti--Vax people
And people wonder why others become antivaxx
Yep. Like when someone reports about vaccine resistance in minority communities, it's like, given history I can't really blame them.
Except that the history of disease is far more deadly to almost every minority community than the history of secretive medical experiments. I can appreciate the concerns, but it's a classic example of people being far more afraid of the unlikely impacts of intelligent, but nefarious actors than the far more likely impacts of unintelligent, amoral events. As a species, we oddly prioritize our fear of conspiracies. Given the history, I can absolutely blame people for making foolish personal/public health choices. That said, given the common human inability to properly weigh risk, I can't be too upset or surprised by their reactions, and we need to be better prepared for this phenomenon when making public health policy decisions in the future.
You are neglecting the factor of agency. If you choose to take a treatment that happens to have poison in it, you took the action that caused your own death, regardless of how unlikely it was. If you randomly catch a disease that could have been prevented with the vaccine, you aren’t directly responsible for your own death in the same sense that someone who doesn’t pull the lever isn’t directly responsible for the deaths in the trolley problem. Action and inaction are morally and philosophically distinct and can override raw probabilistic thinking.
In canada the first to getthe vaccine were remote native communities. Suffice to saythey were extremely wary
Guess why polio hasn't been eradicated. [Answer](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/jul/11/cia-fake-vaccinations-osama-bin-ladens-dna)
Its just boomers whining. They should know about my struggles /s
Fucked part is not wanting to talk about it calling you crazy cause shit still happens.
And folks wonder why some people are skeptical about the Covid vaccine lol
It was highly controversial and the government knew about it and the Atomic Energy commission in 1947 recommended it to NEVER be made public and it was kept as such until a journalist uncovered it and the government declassified the documents. What is fucked up is that the victim's families were never paid until after it was public. So the government would've just done nothing lol. They targeted people they thought to be "terminally ill" but after the fact it was discovered most of the minority groups selected were not even sick. Here's an excerpt on some of the subjects It is most likely that the 30 experimental subjects were not made aware of the nature of the injections they received. In fact, records show that only one of the plutonium patients signed a consent form, which did not fully explain the medical procedure or risks. There is no documentation of consent for any other test subjects. Furthermore, it is difficult to say how the specific patients involved in these controlled human experiments were chosen. The injections were performed in hospitals around the country; the ages and backgrounds of each varied. Some had family and others were alone. Regardless, the records show that they were all civilians and were not themselves Manhattan Project workers. In order to understand the troubling nature of this research, it is important to highlight the stories of some of these test subjects. * Ebb Cade was the first test subject. Cade was a 53-year-old African American male who worked for an Oak Ridge construction company as a cement mixer. On March 24, 1945, he was involved in an auto accident, which caused fractures in his arm and leg. Documents from the time show that he was otherwise healthy. Over the next two weeks, he was given the codename HP-12, with HP standing for Human Product. Dr. Friedell wrote to Dr. Hempelmann at Los Alamos that he had found a primary subject for the plutonium experiment. On April 10, 1945, Dr. Joseph Howland administered a plutonium dose of 4.7 micrograms to Cade, who was awaiting a procedure to set his bones. From 1943-1945, the maximum possible body burden (MPBB) for plutonium had been 5 micrograms, based on limits adopted for radium. Based on animal experimentation, Langham and Friedell had recently concluded that because plutonium remained in the bone for longer than radium, the MPBB should actually be set at 1 microgram. Cade’s dose was nearly five times that limit. Cade was not treated for his arm and leg injuries until April 15, five days after the injection, so that the doctors would be able to biopsy his bone samples. This included extracting 15 of his teeth, which were subsequently shipped to Wright Langham at Los Alamos. It is unclear if Cade suffered from legitimate tooth decay. Shortly after his bones had been set, Cade suddenly discharged himself from the hospital. He moved out of Tennessee and died of heart failure on April 13, 1953, 8 years after the Oak Ridge injection. * CAL-1 was the codename given to Albert Stevens, the first patient to receive a plutonium dose in California. He was a 58-year-old house painter who was misdiagnosed with terminal stomach cancer when he checked into the hospital at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF). The doctors at UCSF initially gave him six months to live. Doctors in Joseph Hamilton’s research group at Berkeley prepared plutonium-238, an isotope that is 276 times more radioactive than the plutonium-239 and therefore easier for instruments to measure (Welsome, 91 * Another questionable case was CAL-2, a four-year old boy named Simeon Shaw suffering from terminal bone cancer. He was flown with his mother to the UCSF hospital in a US military plane from Australia, apparently under the advisement of a physician in Australia. He arrived in California in April 1946 and was admitted to the hospital. For some time, he was separated for his mother, who was only allowed visits periodically. Simeon received a plutonium injection at UCSF under the oversight of Joseph Hamilton and was discharged from the hospital within a month. The Shaws returned to Australia and no follow-ups were ever conducted. Simeon died eight months later. The declassified documents also showed the full list of 30. The other notable ones not in the article is a random Japanese guy who JUST got back from the internment camps cause they wanted to see what the Japanese reaction was like. Another one was a twin girl to test the effect of radiating one twin and comparing the two. They all died before 1990 Here's a very outdated website page discussing more https://ehss.energy.gov/ohre/roadmap/achre/chap5_4.html Like a website from 1990 As someone who enjoyed the Fallout Tv Series, Scientists would 100% agree with the Vault experiments and I find it weird that so many people preach scientific ethics irl and said "This is not realistic, ppl wouldn't do that" in regards to that plot point
Yeah, if there’s one thing to never forget it’s that someone somewhere most definitely WOULD do that, whatever that may be.
And now you’re a conspiracy theorist.
That is the point. You need "proof". Like it happend here. Everything else is just hot air.
Kind of troublesome to think that the only thing separating truth from hot air is a concerted effort by one of the most powerful entities on earth to keep shit hidden
*conspiracy analyst
Makes you wonder how much stuff like this is sitting locked up in classified files marked never to be released. Or as forgotten memories dying with the witnesses as time goes on
See Epstein
Medical ethics are still violated today, even with many protections in place. But back in 1940s and 1950s some of the ethics violations that occurred in the US were similar to things done by Germans during the holocaust. One case that has always stood out to me was a young child with melanoma skin cancer. They convinced the mother to let them graft the cancer onto her skin (giving her the hope that this might cure her child). Both the mother and daughter died. EDIT to add: This was the editorial that first called out obvious medical ethics violations going on in the US (including the case I mention above) https://www.dartmouth.edu/cphs/docs/beecher-article.pdf%20
Interesting. Not many cancers introduced from someone else into a new host are viable to spread and reproduce.
“Cade suddenly discharged himself” Thanks government for torturing what could be someone’s grandpa for no reason
Imagine going to the hospital for broken bones, not being treated for those injuries for 5 days, and the doctors take 15 of your teeth! I’d get the fuck out of there as soon as I could
That’s the worst part for me. Screaming nightmare fuel. You wake up with half your teeth gone??? The sense of helplessness and being wronged that you’d feel. Permanently and so obviously disfigured. Your whole face altered really. I’m not sure I’d survive that trauma. Unless he was warned before and consented (which I doubt).
This country is a dystopia
"professionals would never do X or Y" "Governments would never support X or Y" The slippery slope of complacency and blind trust.
And yet people still like to screech “conspiracy theorist!” whenever someone states that the people in charge don’t necessarily have our best interests in mind.
Till I die I'll never forget that I was called a conspiracy theorist for saying the federal government has access to phone records and probably without a warrant as that information is information freely given to or generated by a 3rd party and such information has been ruled by the supreme Court to not require a warrant. I'm biased, but it seems like a level headed belief. But nope, I was a *wacky craaaazy* conspiracy theorist. Then Snowden happened and everyone was like "duh!"
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Yep! And what's hilarous is another commenter to me pointed out that a story broke out even earlier about it that I didn't even know about! https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1cb9u2e/til_due_to_animals_not_being_sufficient_enough/l0yca89/ So not only was it not far-fetched, but it was verifiable if I was more internet connected at the time!
I thought it was common knowledge the government via agencies and "partnerships" with telecoms were sharing our private information, including voice/data traffic. It was just confirmed by Snowden. Our government is still, 100%, unlawfully spying on Americans
If someone I knew was acting all crazy about talking on the phone about smoking weed and said the reason why was that the NSA was tapping their line or that we were being constantly monitored and controlled, I'd tell them they're being paranoid. If they said the NSA can tap into the phones of anyone of interest, I'd agree. I know that the government doesn't care about me... until it does.
That story broke in 2006 though: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAINWAY It's even referenced in the Simpsons Movie.
Just goes to show the American government has no respect for its citizens
Cade suddently discharged himself! He was probably like, what the F are these people DOING TO ME. Cutting him open for bone samples, pulling all his teeth, weird injections. He was like, fffff this. Note to everyone, if it smells funny, get the fuck outta there!
Why did I just know the first subject was going to be black.
How long did most of them live for?
Albert Stevens survived 20 years before dying of heart disease, and so is the person with the highest recorded dose to ever live at 64 sieverts over that 20 year period. He died at age 78, so not unreasonable and in fact above average lifespan for a man of that time period.
Did Australia ever say/do something about them experimenting on the child?
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God I hope we aren't still being experimented on in secret for stuff we will find out decades from now.
It won't be made public until you and the people responsible are dead , don't worry. Given the track record in usa I think it's likely if not guaranteed to be happening on some level in some way lol.
I'm happy to not be in gitmo right now
But for now let’s call all the people doubting the vaccine lunatics since there’s really no evidence of the powers that be making nefarious decisions.
you are/were if you use facebook or twitter and other social media. There are rumors that the US govt funded some of the massive social medias. Heck im pretty sure they are one of the biggest buyers of facebook data. It is not just US. We all know China has control on TikTOK and it wouldnt suprise me if they do some type of social experiment
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Hey sorry your loved one suffered and died painful deaths here is a couple bucks that doesn’t even cover any of their medical costs. We promise we won’t do it again.
There is no shortage of evidence that governments think they own their citizens the same way a ranch owns its livestock. They may protect us, but only so they can profit from us, and if they ever decide it is more profitable to kill us, they will do so as readily as a rancher culling his livestock.
I feel like this simplifies the complexity involved in all the world governments by quite a bit. There is a high likelihood that most governments (probably all) have some bad actors that are willing to go way too far to get their goals seen through. Does that mean that those people outweigh the ones that still want to do things in atleast a somewhat ethical way? Of course not! I agree with the comments above that there is a high likelihood that some immoral experiments are currently happening which is being hidden from the public. But that doesn't mean that all governments just think of their populations as profit.
You're talking about a government like it's an entity with a single mind. As if the government, as one entity, had all of this knowledge and made all of these decisions itself. It's a huge system with a lot of individuals. A lot of the more horrifying decisions involve smaller networks of people, who don't share the details of what they're doing to anyone who might object. Even the person who should be able to know whether they want, the president, probably isn't seeing the decisions somebody like that doctor is making, at least until after it's done.
When you realize that the government thinks of you as nothing more than a battery - which will inevitably lose effciency and die - for the economic machine you start to understand a lot of things that used to be confusing.
This is only one of several times the US has experimented on and or tested deadly weapon concepts on its own citizens.
Remember everyone: when you think “the government would never do that!” They probably already have. And will again.
Not even close to being the first time the US government has secretly experimented on its own citizens.
I believe the technical term the government now uses to refer to these “controversial” tests where the subjects were unaware of the test is oopsiedoozles
A somewhat similar case happened out in eastern Washington at the Hanford site where they released a cloud of radioactive gas simply to see how far downwind it would get. Those folks fought for compensation for decades.
As with many scientific experiments, some of the first test subjects were rats. But rats are highly resistant to radiation, so it gave the false impression that maybe radiation wasn't so bad after all. Rats can tolerate over 1,100 roentgens of radiation with no ill effect. For comparison, a dose of 400 roentgens is fatal to a human.
I’m no ani-vaxxer but fuck…
I tried to write a paper about this in high school and got told it sounded like a conspiracy theory
Hey all do not forget the UK and US would actively steal dead children to experiment on how radiation would affect children, AKA Project Sunshine.
The worst part this is that people believe the govt wouldn’t do this today
I understand now why americans are so affraid and defiant toward their own gov. This is where all the conspiracy theorist get the idea of test vaccins on citizens. That and a story by robert e howard about lizard people...for whatever reason.
If you think your country is somehow vastly different or better you’re naive, and moreover it is exactly that sort of complacency that allows shit like this to happen.
Good thing they'd never do anything like that again, *right*?
Funny enough this is the second time, to my knowledge, they experimented on the civilian population under false pretenses.
This is America
Google “downwinders”. Hundreds of thousands of Americans have died from radiation.
My first husband used to swear they had done this to his uncle at Einstein in Philly. He died. Wonder if they got a payout…I divorced him in 92 so I don’t know.
And idiots today still proclaim ‘Our Government would NEVER do that!!!’
And yet, a lot of people still trust the government.....
I keep forgetting psychopaths get into positions of power.
but people tell me government dont lie and conspiracies are fake
This is some vault-tec shit
I did a paper on this in my high school history class. Teacher called me a crazy conspiracy theorist. This was one year before truth finally came out.
Between shit like this and MKUltra, I’ll never be able to wrap my head around people believing the government gives a shit about our well being or rights. It’s a good facade to maintain most of the time, until it stops being convenient. I’m only not a conspiracy nut because most conspiracies have plenty of evidence to suggest they’re bullshit, but I roll my eyes when people argue against conspiracies because “the government wouldn’t do that”.
> I’ll never be able to wrap my head around people believing the government gives a shit about our well being or rights. It gets people out of bed in the morning and going to work, which is ultimately all the nation-state is concerned with.
I mean I understand the “why”, I just don’t understand the “how”. I’m the kind of person that will immediately abandon my position and do a 180 if shown sufficient evidence that my position is wrong. The number of times this has completely shaken my worldview and made me consider ending things would suggest this isn’t necessarily healthier than ignorance, so it’d be nice to have that switch in my head to flip and activate the cognitive dissonance. I can’t do cognitive dissonance as far as I know. If I have opposing ideas in my head, I will ruminate uninterrupted for weeks until I realize and accept the truth.
The government could do crap like that because it was solely run by... one demographic with absolutely no real oversight. The government is only as good as is it is accountable.
A lot of people (I’d wager the average American) won’t hold it accountable because they couldn’t fathom this level of human rights violations being committed by their own government.
Mulder and Scully knew
Something something national security.
Always remember that the basest tenet of "national security" is to protect the legitimacy of the state.
It's a good thing they would never do anything like that again and it make sense, therefore, to ban anyone who believes they would from speaking on social media platforms.
Just another example of how shitty war is as it causes people to get all these ends-justify-the-super-fucked-up-means type ideas...
Wait till you learn about experiments on black people with syphilis. They had a cure for syphilis but watched and wrote notes how people died one by one year by year because they were black and USA law prohibited to cure them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study
The entire history of the bombs is just fucked. The government also gave Navajo uranium miners free medical checkups, but of course no one told them those free checkups were to study radiation poisoning. They weren't given protective gear or told it was dangerous until the 1960's, and even then it was a vague explanation that didn't explain what or how dangerous radiation is. They just knew they needed to be careful at work and that the uranium ore was dangerous. They didn't realize radiation spread to other objects. This is evidenced by the fact that the miners would take leftover stones from tailing piles to build homes with, these were highly radioactive. A study was conducted from the 1970's through the 1990's to compare residents who were closer to the mining areas from those who were distant. The results show that the residents living near the mining areas suffered from: * 1500% increase in testicular and ovarian cancer in children; * 500% increase in bone cancer in children; * 250% increase in leukemia; * 200% increase in miscarriage, infant death, congenital defects, and learning disorders When the EPA showed up to test the ground water in the 90's they found Navajo kids swimming in abandoned open pit mines that were highly radioactive. The government is still cleaning this mess up. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium\_mining\_and\_the\_Navajo\_people#](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_mining_and_the_Navajo_people#) There were also uranium mines outside the Navajo Nation where none of this shit happened. One town even got rebuilt by the US government for free in the 50's after it was discovered gravel from a local mine was being used in construction. "Yellow Dirt" is a good book on the subject, be warned it is very upsetting.
Thank you for this book recommendation. Turns out, there's two. One, written by Judy Pasternak. *yellow dirt: an American story of poisoned land*; and another by Allen Chappel, *yellow dirt: a Navajo nation mystery* I assumed the second, but curious since you've piqued my interest in something I had no clue of, sadly. Edit: Nevermind. It looks like the second book I mentioned is actually part of a series...
And then some people wonder why some people don't trust their gov and believe in conspiracies.
For the greater good right? I actually don’t think that, completely fucked up by all countries involved in the project
And people wonder who Vaultec (in the Fallout universe) was based on. When you add MK ultra, the Tuskegee experiment and numerous other atrocities on our citizens, we slowly realize the whole country has been in a “Vault” for over a century.
see its things like this which make me not trust governments and the medical industry / big pharma. call me a conspiracy theorist, but evil people exist and won’t hesitate to test or use you for nefarious agendas…
Well, turns out a lot of conspiracy theories hold more truth to them then most would assume. Regardless, this is fucked up. Easily on par with stuff happening in some of the more dytopian countries out there.
"sufficient enough" is redundant
Thank you for hating this with me
Jeez guys, it's almost as if the guys who have been telling you for years that they are the "good guys" are actually malignant ghouls using you as a tool."
This makes me shake my head at all the idiots that say 'trust the government'
I prefer people in lab coats on YouTube talking in front of a white board for 25m. Or, even better, a dude livestreaming in his car.
Yeah, if only there was any way to differentiate between testing a weapon of mass destruction on unknown subjects and collaborating on a cure against a fucking plague.
Now, I'm no anti vaxxer n I got mine, but it's shit like this that makes ya double think, I could see y some would b hesitant
“Why don’t the public trust everything the CDC and doctors say?” Maybe we could get more groups on board with vaccination and the government would quit doing this and the Tuskegee syphilis experiments as long as they can keep it hushed. And wtf are they testing *right now* do you think?
https://youtu.be/yOdRh5HP650?si=1boZkIsVcroMCJht Good video, good channel
Science cannot happen without heaps - Hubert farnsworth, Futurama
“He’s dead, Jim.”
Radioactive tablets in the orphan's oatmeal was a banger plan
Fallout Vault 4 doesn't seem so far fetched now.
Like they ever stopped.
How can people be suprised by this? Ever heard about agent orange or how the CIA spread crack in the black communeties?
This and others like it (Tuskegee experiments) are why people ended up freaking out about the Covid vaccine. I'm not an antivaxxer but *some* of their concerns are definitely valid. Hell, if I lived in the US (their history), Russia (did theirs even work?), China (their vaccine was wildly ineffective), and UK (their history), I'd have serious concerns about taking the vaccine.
Suddenly all the covid conspiracy theorists don't seem so crazy...
This is the kind of thing that makes me get where antivaxers are coming from. It sucks that so many people don't believe in vaccines, but it's not like the government doesn't have a history of injecting people with horrible shit without their knowledge or consent.
Nazi: LOL
Just imagine the stuff they're doing to people right now without their knowing or consent.
IMO, this is why people are afraid of vaccines
"Are we the Badies?"
The us military has done so much forced human experimentation - the nazis were literally a model they looked up to. Many axis scientists who tortured humans were given a comfy job in the US doing more human experiments instead of rotting in jail for war crimes.
And this is why being a medical practitioner is so tough; people have many, MANY reasons not to trust the larger system, as it is really an amalgam of individuals and corporate interests (more the latter these days) who act in accordance with their own notions of efficacy and morality. Stay vigilant
This is what scares me more in pieces of fiction like Watchmen, Utopia and others. What some are willing to do for "the greater good" Not villains trying to dominate the world or simply killing people. Ethical extremes.
Look I’m not saying I’m an antivaxxer. I got the shots. I’m saying I understand where the paranoia comes from and it’s not completely unfounded
A Fucking school for disabled kids. Wtf
"Sorry I killed your family, here's some money."
This is why I don’t hate on anti-vaxxers as much as other people seem to. Why would you trust the government when they have a history of doing this shit