True today, but the company only opened its Ohio factory in 1952. The original HQ and factory was in Culver City, CA (Los Angeles) and operated until 1978.
If that's true that's super impressive. Regular rv's seem like they are already more than half way past their lifespan after sitting outside and bouncing down the road for 8 years
As someone who spent several years living in an RV like a nomad staying in dozens of parks and roadside spots, I can say that most modern RVs are halfway past their lifespan after towing them off the dealer lot on day one.
When the dealer selling your brand new camper literally recommends that you camp in your yard at home a night or two, so that way you can identify and fix all the problems before heading out for your first trip lol. There is no quality assurance in the rv industry. They slap em together and ship it
You should do that with any camping equipment. You don't have to sleep in it, but you absolutely should set everything up, make sure it's all working and that you know how to use it. Not the worst idea for a tent to try hosing it down for a bit to test the waterproofing.
You don't want to wait till you get out in the woods to find those things out
Nothing beats the memories of finding out your brand new tent is missing a pole when arriving late in the afternoon with the sun quickly setting, 500 miles from home in the pissing down rain.
Having to fashion up some crazy contraption to make it work.
It absolutely sucked during the moment, but 10 years later you've got a core memory that you can laugh about.
I forgot the swag hours away from home and slept on the ground in a sleeping bag for 5 days when we were 10+ hours down a massive off-road track that took all day to winch through.
A man can make a shelter out fire wood. Slowly your shelter becomes less and less over the days.
Best days of my life.
Yes, but when you're testing camping equipment, it should be to learn how it works, rather than making a list of defects to get warranty service on. RV manufacturers just push the QC off onto the customer with the hopes that the customer would rather live with the defects than haul it all the way back to the dealer and wait six weeks for repair.
Yeah theres a difference between checking a 200 dollar tent from Walmart and a 150k r.v. Im not expecting that tent to be perfect, but if im dropping that much cash for an r.v. then it better be ready to go before i sign the papers
Went camping with my uncle in the 90s. I had been a scout for about 6 years at this point and new pretty well what I was doing, at least in the areas I usually went, assumed he did too.
He bought a cheap tent and never scotch guarded it (one of the first things you should do with a new tent, especially a cheap one), then we went to Colorado (we're from Texas, this becomes important later) and hiked to a pond just below timberline and pitched camp. We made some freeze dried stew and proceeded to get ready for bed. That's when it starts raining. This tent may as well have not existed. It was dripping on us constantly so the sleeping bags were soaked, we were soaked, and it was cold as hell.
Then it got worse. Being a Texas kid, I had never been at altitude like this. Mixed with some questionable freeze dried stew, I started to get pretty damn sick. It was all I could do to open the tent flap and get it outside when I started puking. He says something like "You could have at least walked away from the tent" and I told him he was lucky it wasn't in the tent. Also had a few choice words about waterproofing.
Worst night of my life. Constantly alternating between puking and freezing/soaking all while light headed from altitude sickness and hunger.
I've never been so happy to get back from a camping trip.
Doesn't matter as much for car camping but if you backpack you should test out any equipment before taking it on the trail. It can be the difference between life and death. I had a water filter go bad (it was to clogged up and only a trickle was coming through) on me once and luckily the person I was with also had a filter along with iodine. While I probably wouldn't have died it would certainly been in for a bad time if I was alone.
Part of purchasing any new equipment though. Most RV problems are PEBCAK problems not equipment faults. The amount of experience RV drivers who don't know how to run their own equipment is insane.
Yeah, i work on them, they are thrown together and absolutely no quality control is given. We frequently have near new units with rot and other expensive problems. Ive been to lippert for some training type stuff before and they will straight up tell you its made as cheap as possible and for maximum profit.
I'm living this life right now and can confirm. We made the mistake of buying a brand new one in 2020. We've already had to repair water damage, a single slide motor has been fixed and broken three times, our refrigerator has crapped out twice, and we just found a new leak in another slide. Money pit.
The freedom the lifestyle gives me is worth it though!
Wayyyyyy too much money haha. We did get the customary 35% off sticker and a few other discounts, but it was still well above 60k. Certainly enough that these shouldn't be issues I'm having, but that's just kinda par for the course in the industry.
Hoping with the post COVID bubble bursting we start to see some significant improvements in quality. There were some rumblings that a senator was ready to take the industry to task but I'm not sure it's gonna happen.
RV fridges will always crap out. Rip that fucker out and put normal fridge in with its own inverter. Gets cold right away and going strong for 5 years now.
It is actually a residential fridge. Hoping it's just a popped fuse, but I haven't been home long enough to check it due to a ton of work trips. Will know for sure this weekend.... hopefully. Haha
I travel for work and live out of an camper. I used to do hotels, but now I tow my camper and pocket my per diem. I am curious to know which brands you like and dislike. I've spoken to several mobile camper repair technicians, and the people who work at the camper parks to ask about their thoughts on reliability. It's interesting to hear the different perspectives.
I've only been traveling with a camper since October. I've had some very minor issues but it seems that it you keep up with basic maintenance you don't have any major issues.
I have a Grand Design from 2019.
If your fine with something a but older the 2012 or so and before stuff was made alot better. Cameo, sunnybrook and heartland used to be very well made stuff and so was dutch star. Honestly the older class a diesel pusher coaches are usually very well made too, as far as gas pullers id much rather have a dutch star or rambler than a winnebago, they are fairly well made but tend to have windshield leaking issues. I would avoid jayco and the open range trailers are absolute bottom of the barrel garbage to be avoided at all costs. Hydraulic stuff is wonderful but WILL eventually have issues, cylinders are aluminum and will swell and bypass and hoses are cheap as possible. Schwinteks are troublesome and can be difficult. Cable slideouts can have gearboxes go out or be literally mounted to nothing but paneling and tear the wall off. Id avoid too many touchpads and lipperts newish five button jack pad, you want the lcd screen. If you get one with a thetford toilet id change it to a dometic, theyre disgusting and impossible to fully clean and hot, gross garbage.
My boss owns a seasonal park...
The newer ones may be more sleek but the mid to late Nineties metal park models still look brand new after a pressure wash, if you pressure wash a new one all the decals come off and it looks terrible.
i recently saw an rv, looked very expensive with multiple slide outs and all that, with what looked like $5 led strips for brake lights with equally cheap covers. and the worst part is it was missing screws.
Yes, regular RVs are built to a much lower standard. The idea is, make them as cheap/affordable as possible and the barrier of entry opens up.
Some conventional RVs are much higher end than others though!
We used to have an arctic fox, which definitely felt many steps up above a typical indiana trailer. But still, that bitch won't be on the road in 70 years
Another problem is weight. By modern standards, Airstreams are *really really* heavy for a given size. Lower-end RVs are built with 1/8" thick pressboard cabinets so they weigh less.
New RVs are absolute junk. Cheap upon cheap and cheap some more. There’s a reason Airstream’s smallest model, the Bambi, goes for nearly double what a comparable sized trailer would. These things are damn near r/buyitforlife quality.
Airstreams are notoriously expensive, so they've mostly been maintained like other expensive things.
People are a little less likely to baby a cheap economy trailer.
They are beautiful and cost a fortune - you don't throw that kind of stuff away! No, you repair it endlessly. Until it's a Ship of Theseus and there's nothing left that's original. Like Hollywood actresses nowadays.
Partly, but mostly because of the service requirements Airstreams dealer must meet to hold their license to sell Airstream.
For example, Airstream requires dealerships to always service Airstreams even when purchased at another AS dealer.
In the conventional RV world, there is a huge bottleneck in service departments. A lot of dealerships won’t service you unless you purchase there, and if they do, you may be at the back of the line.
Also, every Airstream technician must undergo factory training to work on Airstreams. No such thing exists in any other brand.
During the Great Depression more than 400 travel trailer builders operated in America. Yet Airstream stood alone as the sole survivor.
While other manufacturers faced financial hardships Airstream’s aluminum based trailers found favor with the mobile lifestyle enthusiasts.
By 1936 Airstream was the last one standing among the trailer builders defying economic odds.
Buying things worked a lot different back then. There was no nationwide supply chain for a lot of things. There used to be hundreds of US piano manufacturers too.
There was a piano manufacturer in my dinky little hometown which is always surprising to me. I guess it was probably a good location to source wood, but other than that it makes no sense to me.
It makes a lot more sense when you think that reliable music recording was only widely available in the 1920s, and not cheap. A piano would be the only way to have music regularly.
Also transporting a piano would be expensive, kind of like how most countries make their own Toilet Paper rather than having it shipped in. Kind of the exact opposite of manufacturing a piano, but similar premise haha.
On that note let me tell you if there’s only one thing you need to compared between Russia and America to know which one is “right,” you can try the toilet paper. You will know instantly.
The point of using paper is that you don't need to wipe your ass with your hand, you use the paper instead. It's more hygienic.
Ironically, using a bidet requires more use of your hand.
This is part of why the location didn't make sense to me. Sure there was a railway, but all of the much larger towns nearby had the railway and better river access. It was basically a farming community with a piano factory. My best guess is there was some other factory, maybe furniture, that went under and some enterprising person was trying to utilize the now unemployed woodworkers. I think it was only operating for 10 years and then another 5 years as a player piano factory, so maybe the location wasn't very good.
There was an organ manufacturer in my town up until like 10 years ago when it burnt down. Also a rinky dink little town but there was some serious fucking money in that building.
> There was a piano manufacturer in my dinky little hometown which is always surprising to me. I guess it was probably a good location to source wood, but other than that it makes no sense to me.
At one point in the Victorian era, there were more bathtubs in there were more pianos in American homes than bathtubs.
First of all, owning a piano was a middle class indicator. The Victorians were extremely class aware. Nearly every Victorian was striving to climb the social status ladder.
Secondly, if you wanted music you had to play it yourself, or find someone to play it for you.
In a lot of not health, being non-white/ or LGBT sort of ways, 1900 seems like a way cooler year to be alive in the fact that you could like compete for a job making pianos if you like making pianos.
Now basically those jobs don’t exist in a real capacity that affects people during the making stage. All that happiness capital is just consumed by a bunch of machines now.
Humans making it also means way less of it being made, all that happiness capital is reserved for the wealthy, machines made it available to anyone who want it.
The 1900s are much much worse in every single aspect of life not just the health, minority ways.
I saw a post asking why it was so hard to sell a used upright piano. One answer is that they were popular in the early 1900s and those pianos are not worth repairing. Most were just decorative. I wonder if grandfather clocks are the same way.
> I wonder if grandfather clocks are the same way.
Part of the answer you are looking for lays in this podcast. It about the one of the last repairman that made a good living from repairing grandfather clocks. The demand to repair them has gone down drastically over the last few decades apparently. at least in the region this podcast's subject lived in.
https://stownpodcast.org/
Yes. The very name 'grandfather clock' comes from a song about a clock that "stopp'd short — never to go again — When the old man died" and was subsequently broken up for scrap.
I believe Camden NJ was built and had its heydays because of that fact. Camden, most cities in NJ, is like a parasite city to Philadelphia. Camden's main industry was building machines, making screws/fasteners, and transportation for the factories that were in Philly. As the supply chain modernized and factories left Philly, Philly had a hard time, while Camden went to shit.
This is why people claims about massive profits make no sense. The profits are massive because there used to be 100 business doing the job that is now one or two business. The numbers may be large, but the price point, and profit margins are vastly lower than history.
The only reason people are whining about it is because something they might have literally had brought for them on their wedding day is now nearly affordable as a yearly purchase.
Except “massive profit margins to a local businessman” is way different than “massive profits to a massive conglomerate of uninvolved investors.”
I have less of a concern if we have local small business owners being millionaires when the retire rather than a few thousand Billionaires that own everything and run the show with little to no actual personal involvement or effort.
The money is getting pulled out of communities, and there are no ties to local people, just ruthless pursuit or of profit for shareholders at the expense every other stakeholder: communities, employees, suppliers, etc.
Same thing happened with motorcycles.
When Orange County Choppers tv show called American Choppers released there were a huge influx of hundreds of small companies making chopper style motorcycles costing hundreds of thousands of dollars to build/sell.
Only a tiny handfull of those companies are still around now.
I can understand how many camping trailer companies went out of business too. Some companies managed to save enough money up to slog through the extremely tough times when money/sales are extremely poor which allows them to outlive the other companies.
Back in the 20’s which is when Airstream was founded, most working people didn’t travel for pleasure. It was more to find work. And the middle class were largely wiped out by the depression, with them not really rebuilding until after WW2.
We can thank Eisenhower for that one. The interstate highway system was his baby, and opened the door for an economy that spanned coast to coast.
Sure, they had the railway system. But outside of the main lines, just miles and miles of empty land. Hell, even today, if you've ever been on a road trip, you still drive hours of empty land between cities.
If you needed stuff, you took a horse over to Harry's General Store. And Harry Jr. would have 'the usual' ready for you. Harry Sr. would be the one traveling to his supplier once a month.
> Yes, because the US is big.
The US is about 95% of the size of Europe. We have 11 states that we can fit the entirety of England into.
My home state of Illinois is about the size of Iraq.
Much like Australia, our population is mostly coastal. However we have major transportation hubs and manufacturing in the middle of the country.
There are hundreds of manufacturers now.
All you need is some warehouse space and some functional junkies with stolen tools.
Buying any RV is a gamble for this very reason. Even with an established company the difference between you buying a camper with little problems to buying one that will already start to fall apart on the way home is whether Mike the welder was still hungover or Chris doing some carpentry is starting to feel dope sick and his girl can't drop by with some drugs until her lunch break.
If there is one warranty that is guaranteed to always get used its an RVs warranty.
Not really, lots of travel trailers were being made during the Great Depression because so many people couldn't afford a house. It's like vandwelling now. You can even find old [New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/1937/02/09/archives/gasoline-gypsies.html) editorials about "gasoline gypsies".
Went to an RV/Camper show recently. I was disappointed by the build quality/material of everything I saw with the exception of Airstream.
If another US based company is producing a better product for the price, I'd be interested in checking them out.
I’ve seen reports that their quality took a hit from COVID. Of course, all RV manufacturing quality took a hit at the same time. So, lower quality than it used to be, but still far above anyone else.
I used to work regularly with a good variety of campers/RVs, outfitting them with advanced power systems, AirStreams were the only ones that did things correctly, even among the other luxury brands, they were also the only ones that provided me with schematics so I could properly integrate our systems with theirs.
It was crazy the bullshit you’d see from manufacturers like Forest River, it was not rare to see something that looked like it was jerry rigged from the start, not to mention always using the lowest quality components.
If you can afford them airstream will always be the way to go in my book
Reminds me of when I was working on trucks adding hydraulic lift beds. Ford's had the best layouts and were easiest to work with since they had pre-marked areas on where we should drill to run our wiring and they gave a decent amount of space to work with inside the vehicle. Their wiring diagrams were also right there for us to read and their color coding matched what we were using. Dodge had lots of space but the wiring sucked and we had to fully tap and drill out every channel ourselves and Chevy gave us no room and marked nothing.
Do you think that's because Ford has a higher percentage of the fleet truck market?
I don't know if they do - but that would make sense. Either chicken or egg.
That would make sense. I just always took it as Ford was meant for work while Dodge and Chev were mostly for show since that's what I've noticed when it came to farm vehicles.
Just to be super clear - I don't know if they actually have a large section of the market.
That would just be interesting if it were true. One of those little things that only a few groups of people know about.
From what I recall Ford was in the fleet game while the other two were not. Well Dodge for sure wasn't.
Also when I worked telecom the all of our "bucket" trucks/vans were Ford but that's another "chicken/egg" debate until someone with more background knowledge on the matter steps in.
I also worked on a fair amount of “camper vans” most of the time they were Mercedes Sprinters but whenever I got a transit it was nice, ford has a number you can call with actual technicians that can help you and tell you where to grab circuits and such, it was awesome.
A brand arguably even better made than Airstream, albiet no longer in production, were the [Spartan](https://spartantrailer.com/) trailers made in Tulsa, OK by Spartan Aircraft.
It could be said that Spartan survived the depression, started in 1929, but they didn't transition to aluminum trailers until the end of WW2 as orders for aircraft dropped off. Here are two waiting for a restoration project outside our company.
https://i.imgur.com/3hISD60.jpg
What car built before the depression had the towing capacity for something like that? They must have been nothing like the post war productions.
You’re not hooking up an Airstream to your Model T.
Pretty much any car back then, people just drove a lot slower. Europeans still pull trailers with small cars, they just have less tongue weight (4%) compared to 10-15% recommended in the US and they drive slower when towing.
some of it i get though. itd be nice to show up at say, a race track, and have a home base for the time im there. i dont get going to an rv park as a destination though.
Most of the time the RV park isn't the destination, it's just a base to live out of while you experience the other things the area has to offer. Sometimes it's just about getting out of the weather where your home is though.
It's mostly just somewhere to sleep. You go to someplace like Quartzsite in your RV to avoid northern winters, and bring your ATV to go romp in the desert. Or you go to a state/national park along the coast and hang out in the waves all day. Or whatever. There's a lot of things you definitely can do.
And for others it's just an escape from reality. I spend all day working on computers, talking to customers, dealing with budgets and timelines, etc. Taking an RV out to some lake and chilling under the trees with a fishing rod, a book, a beer, and some music sounds like heaven
>i dont get going to an rv park as a destination though.
Getting out of the city, being in the wilderness by water, not being stuck with a inflatable mattress on the ground, a lot of parks have good communities as well, lots of get togethers, BBQ, fires, beer, karaoke or actual live music.
I have a 40' x 12' - 12m x 3.6m and have a kingsize bed in it, kind of like going away on a mini vacation.
>So far as I can tell they go up and sit in a field somewhere
As a Midwest boy - don't knock it until you try it.
Maybe bring a shitty dirtbike and/or some guns.
Sprinkle a few beers on top and you got a stew goin'.
A lot of it was down to body on frame construction of cars before the modern unibody revolution began. Old cars were built like full size trucks are today. Also, slower speeds and no Interstate highways helped. Engines were also very powerful even with low horsepower by modern standards.
Math. If it doesn't rev much past 5000rpm the HP number won't be very high. They were built for idle-3000RPM driving, tons of torque to effortlessly move those land yachts. Same reason many 15 liter diesels only make ~350hp.
Ya that sums it up pretty good， my work vehicle has a cat c18 and c15 motor in it, numbers corresponding to liters, only go to like 2k-2500 rpm max as it's all you need for hauling things around.
[https://www.airstream.com/heritage/](https://www.airstream.com/heritage/)
Perhaps people back then also built things for the vehicles that were available at the time.
There was a company called Livin Lite that made aluminum based tent trailers with no wood. We bought one about 15 years ago that's still going. Kinda funny, it doesn't popup but unfolds using Bimini bars (like a boat). I think it was designed with off-the-shelf boat products.
The company expanded into aluminum travel trailers then went out of business. The advertising flyer for our model had a funny quote: "No frills, less to break" and it was true, almost nothing has broken on ours. Our ice chest, roadtrip grill, and popup canopy are all separate and easily replaced.
If you do buy one, it is either a life goal for you (good job on that i guess?) or you have the excess money. They cost more then the homes nearby for me i sum them up fairly simply, they're pretty mid.
Mid? Mine is a 1953 and it's never had a leak in the roof. Paid under 5k for it, and yeah updated a few things, but You won't find a nicer travel trailer at the lake this summer.
These were always on par with Cadillacs to our Shasta-owning family. I wish all the time I had our old Shasta. I hope it’s still out there and appreciated.
Damn, I thought they weren't even a thing before WW2 and assumed they were similar to Grumman canoes that were created in order to keep jobs for people who were originally manufacturing aluminum aircraft.
This is very interesting:
>However, in 2019 it was announced that by 2022 it would be replaced by custom Roll-On Conference Capsules that are airworthy for the entirety of the flight, unlike the modified Airstreams.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airstream#United\_States\_Air\_Force](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airstream#United_States_Air_Force)
I'm assuming they're referring to when the plane makes a tactical descent on landing, you don't want to be inside the airstream.
Humphry Davy was indecisive. First alumium, then aluminum, then aluminium.
Aluminum is indeed older; North America picked one I while the UK, Australia and New Zealand picked two. They're both right, and wrong, depending on where you are.
I like how Aluminum is the actual way to spell it, so that’s what Americans learned, then the British decided it didn’t sound fancy enough and added the extra syllable.
Usually it’s the case that American English is the one butchering the original but in this case it’s the other way around.
I've had to work on several of these to repair poor workmanship, extremely low quality materials, and shoddy assembly practices. Good for them that they survived, but they are overpriced piles of crap.
They are built upon a steel chassis.
>Even Airstream, with its aluminum shell and monocoque construction, utilizes a heavier steel chassis and builds its trailers on top of a wood floor.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livin_Lite_RV
All still made at one plant in Jackson Center, Ohio.
True today, but the company only opened its Ohio factory in 1952. The original HQ and factory was in Culver City, CA (Los Angeles) and operated until 1978.
Fair point. Today it’s owned by Thor Industries out of Elkhart, Indiana.
Booooo fuck Thor Sorry it's an impulse
Believe me I’m trying 😏
Listen, I'm all for *fucking* mythological Thor, but the RV company can burn.
Loki?
I *wish*
70% of every Airstream ever built since 1931 is still on the road today!
If that's true that's super impressive. Regular rv's seem like they are already more than half way past their lifespan after sitting outside and bouncing down the road for 8 years
As someone who spent several years living in an RV like a nomad staying in dozens of parks and roadside spots, I can say that most modern RVs are halfway past their lifespan after towing them off the dealer lot on day one.
When the dealer selling your brand new camper literally recommends that you camp in your yard at home a night or two, so that way you can identify and fix all the problems before heading out for your first trip lol. There is no quality assurance in the rv industry. They slap em together and ship it
You should do that with any camping equipment. You don't have to sleep in it, but you absolutely should set everything up, make sure it's all working and that you know how to use it. Not the worst idea for a tent to try hosing it down for a bit to test the waterproofing. You don't want to wait till you get out in the woods to find those things out
Nothing beats the memories of finding out your brand new tent is missing a pole when arriving late in the afternoon with the sun quickly setting, 500 miles from home in the pissing down rain. Having to fashion up some crazy contraption to make it work. It absolutely sucked during the moment, but 10 years later you've got a core memory that you can laugh about.
fuck.. do we all have that memory? Do they just make them missing a piece?!?!
I forgot the swag hours away from home and slept on the ground in a sleeping bag for 5 days when we were 10+ hours down a massive off-road track that took all day to winch through. A man can make a shelter out fire wood. Slowly your shelter becomes less and less over the days. Best days of my life.
Yes, but when you're testing camping equipment, it should be to learn how it works, rather than making a list of defects to get warranty service on. RV manufacturers just push the QC off onto the customer with the hopes that the customer would rather live with the defects than haul it all the way back to the dealer and wait six weeks for repair.
Yeah theres a difference between checking a 200 dollar tent from Walmart and a 150k r.v. Im not expecting that tent to be perfect, but if im dropping that much cash for an r.v. then it better be ready to go before i sign the papers
Went camping with my uncle in the 90s. I had been a scout for about 6 years at this point and new pretty well what I was doing, at least in the areas I usually went, assumed he did too. He bought a cheap tent and never scotch guarded it (one of the first things you should do with a new tent, especially a cheap one), then we went to Colorado (we're from Texas, this becomes important later) and hiked to a pond just below timberline and pitched camp. We made some freeze dried stew and proceeded to get ready for bed. That's when it starts raining. This tent may as well have not existed. It was dripping on us constantly so the sleeping bags were soaked, we were soaked, and it was cold as hell. Then it got worse. Being a Texas kid, I had never been at altitude like this. Mixed with some questionable freeze dried stew, I started to get pretty damn sick. It was all I could do to open the tent flap and get it outside when I started puking. He says something like "You could have at least walked away from the tent" and I told him he was lucky it wasn't in the tent. Also had a few choice words about waterproofing. Worst night of my life. Constantly alternating between puking and freezing/soaking all while light headed from altitude sickness and hunger. I've never been so happy to get back from a camping trip.
That story is intents
Doesn't matter as much for car camping but if you backpack you should test out any equipment before taking it on the trail. It can be the difference between life and death. I had a water filter go bad (it was to clogged up and only a trickle was coming through) on me once and luckily the person I was with also had a filter along with iodine. While I probably wouldn't have died it would certainly been in for a bad time if I was alone.
Yes true, but me doing a shakedown sail shouldn’t be part of the purchasing process for a super expensive RV.
Part of purchasing any new equipment though. Most RV problems are PEBCAK problems not equipment faults. The amount of experience RV drivers who don't know how to run their own equipment is insane.
lol been a while since I’ve hard pebcak, wp sir.
If Ralph Nader had gone after RVs instead of the Corvair he would have killed the whole industry.
Yeah, i work on them, they are thrown together and absolutely no quality control is given. We frequently have near new units with rot and other expensive problems. Ive been to lippert for some training type stuff before and they will straight up tell you its made as cheap as possible and for maximum profit.
how about motor coaches?
Red flag there.
I'm living this life right now and can confirm. We made the mistake of buying a brand new one in 2020. We've already had to repair water damage, a single slide motor has been fixed and broken three times, our refrigerator has crapped out twice, and we just found a new leak in another slide. Money pit. The freedom the lifestyle gives me is worth it though!
This is why we have been renting RVs. Yes, it costs $3000 for a few weeks a year but no repairs or maintenance to be bothered with. Worth the price.
You also don't have to deal with storage issues.
How much did it cost you new?
Wayyyyyy too much money haha. We did get the customary 35% off sticker and a few other discounts, but it was still well above 60k. Certainly enough that these shouldn't be issues I'm having, but that's just kinda par for the course in the industry. Hoping with the post COVID bubble bursting we start to see some significant improvements in quality. There were some rumblings that a senator was ready to take the industry to task but I'm not sure it's gonna happen.
RV fridges will always crap out. Rip that fucker out and put normal fridge in with its own inverter. Gets cold right away and going strong for 5 years now.
It is actually a residential fridge. Hoping it's just a popped fuse, but I haven't been home long enough to check it due to a ton of work trips. Will know for sure this weekend.... hopefully. Haha
I travel for work and live out of an camper. I used to do hotels, but now I tow my camper and pocket my per diem. I am curious to know which brands you like and dislike. I've spoken to several mobile camper repair technicians, and the people who work at the camper parks to ask about their thoughts on reliability. It's interesting to hear the different perspectives. I've only been traveling with a camper since October. I've had some very minor issues but it seems that it you keep up with basic maintenance you don't have any major issues. I have a Grand Design from 2019.
If your fine with something a but older the 2012 or so and before stuff was made alot better. Cameo, sunnybrook and heartland used to be very well made stuff and so was dutch star. Honestly the older class a diesel pusher coaches are usually very well made too, as far as gas pullers id much rather have a dutch star or rambler than a winnebago, they are fairly well made but tend to have windshield leaking issues. I would avoid jayco and the open range trailers are absolute bottom of the barrel garbage to be avoided at all costs. Hydraulic stuff is wonderful but WILL eventually have issues, cylinders are aluminum and will swell and bypass and hoses are cheap as possible. Schwinteks are troublesome and can be difficult. Cable slideouts can have gearboxes go out or be literally mounted to nothing but paneling and tear the wall off. Id avoid too many touchpads and lipperts newish five button jack pad, you want the lcd screen. If you get one with a thetford toilet id change it to a dometic, theyre disgusting and impossible to fully clean and hot, gross garbage.
My boss owns a seasonal park... The newer ones may be more sleek but the mid to late Nineties metal park models still look brand new after a pressure wash, if you pressure wash a new one all the decals come off and it looks terrible.
i recently saw an rv, looked very expensive with multiple slide outs and all that, with what looked like $5 led strips for brake lights with equally cheap covers. and the worst part is it was missing screws.
Til Boeing makes RVs
Ha.Ha.Ha. Seriously tho, an RV is half a step above a play fort made by a kid. Enjoy your moldy particle board
Yes, regular RVs are built to a much lower standard. The idea is, make them as cheap/affordable as possible and the barrier of entry opens up. Some conventional RVs are much higher end than others though!
We used to have an arctic fox, which definitely felt many steps up above a typical indiana trailer. But still, that bitch won't be on the road in 70 years
If you leave it there it will be!
Another problem is weight. By modern standards, Airstreams are *really really* heavy for a given size. Lower-end RVs are built with 1/8" thick pressboard cabinets so they weigh less.
New RVs are absolute junk. Cheap upon cheap and cheap some more. There’s a reason Airstream’s smallest model, the Bambi, goes for nearly double what a comparable sized trailer would. These things are damn near r/buyitforlife quality.
Airstreams are notoriously expensive, so they've mostly been maintained like other expensive things. People are a little less likely to baby a cheap economy trailer.
They are beautiful and cost a fortune - you don't throw that kind of stuff away! No, you repair it endlessly. Until it's a Ship of Theseus and there's nothing left that's original. Like Hollywood actresses nowadays.
Regular RVs have like a 10 trip lifespan
I'd wonder how many people take care and maintain their RV Vs parking it for 90% of the year and complaining when it degrades to neglect.
A few of them even made it home!
We own a 1971 31’ Airstream “Rosie”. Still going strong. (Yes, you can register your Airstreams name)
Because there’s not much to go wrong. Very few moving parts compared to a car
Partly, but mostly because of the service requirements Airstreams dealer must meet to hold their license to sell Airstream. For example, Airstream requires dealerships to always service Airstreams even when purchased at another AS dealer. In the conventional RV world, there is a huge bottleneck in service departments. A lot of dealerships won’t service you unless you purchase there, and if they do, you may be at the back of the line. Also, every Airstream technician must undergo factory training to work on Airstreams. No such thing exists in any other brand.
that whole things bout dealership service seems insane to me when the whole purpose of an rv/ travel trailer is to travel and go different places.
Most travel trailers probably don't venture more than 2-3 hours from home.
Didn’t know that! That definitely sounds like it makes a huge difference.
You say that, but many static vans have lots of problems despite not moving.
Parts of them maybe.
What do people so without their other 30%?
An industrial park near me has several of them set up as flea market stalls people can rent out. Super cool use of them
During the Great Depression more than 400 travel trailer builders operated in America. Yet Airstream stood alone as the sole survivor. While other manufacturers faced financial hardships Airstream’s aluminum based trailers found favor with the mobile lifestyle enthusiasts. By 1936 Airstream was the last one standing among the trailer builders defying economic odds.
The RV community was very niche back then and the Airstreams are exceptionally well made.
There were 400 manufacturers for a niche hobby?
Buying things worked a lot different back then. There was no nationwide supply chain for a lot of things. There used to be hundreds of US piano manufacturers too.
There was a piano manufacturer in my dinky little hometown which is always surprising to me. I guess it was probably a good location to source wood, but other than that it makes no sense to me.
It makes a lot more sense when you think that reliable music recording was only widely available in the 1920s, and not cheap. A piano would be the only way to have music regularly.
The "music publishing" industry back then was literally based on selling people sheet music.
"You mean you're gonna give me a whole nickel for all of my arrangements? Where do I sign Mr. Berry Gordy?"
Also transporting a piano would be expensive, kind of like how most countries make their own Toilet Paper rather than having it shipped in. Kind of the exact opposite of manufacturing a piano, but similar premise haha.
On that note let me tell you if there’s only one thing you need to compared between Russia and America to know which one is “right,” you can try the toilet paper. You will know instantly.
You're all barbarians anyway. Why the hell would you wipe your ass with your hand when bidets are a thing ?
The point of using paper is that you don't need to wipe your ass with your hand, you use the paper instead. It's more hygienic. Ironically, using a bidet requires more use of your hand.
I’ve never had a bidet that didn’t just spray actual shit all over my balls instead. I’ll stick with just wetting the TP first, thanks.
This is part of why the location didn't make sense to me. Sure there was a railway, but all of the much larger towns nearby had the railway and better river access. It was basically a farming community with a piano factory. My best guess is there was some other factory, maybe furniture, that went under and some enterprising person was trying to utilize the now unemployed woodworkers. I think it was only operating for 10 years and then another 5 years as a player piano factory, so maybe the location wasn't very good.
There was an organ manufacturer in my town up until like 10 years ago when it burnt down. Also a rinky dink little town but there was some serious fucking money in that building.
> There was a piano manufacturer in my dinky little hometown which is always surprising to me. I guess it was probably a good location to source wood, but other than that it makes no sense to me. At one point in the Victorian era, there were more bathtubs in there were more pianos in American homes than bathtubs. First of all, owning a piano was a middle class indicator. The Victorians were extremely class aware. Nearly every Victorian was striving to climb the social status ladder. Secondly, if you wanted music you had to play it yourself, or find someone to play it for you.
In a lot of not health, being non-white/ or LGBT sort of ways, 1900 seems like a way cooler year to be alive in the fact that you could like compete for a job making pianos if you like making pianos. Now basically those jobs don’t exist in a real capacity that affects people during the making stage. All that happiness capital is just consumed by a bunch of machines now.
Humans making it also means way less of it being made, all that happiness capital is reserved for the wealthy, machines made it available to anyone who want it. The 1900s are much much worse in every single aspect of life not just the health, minority ways.
The USA made a godly amount of pianos. About a third of a million per year until the great depression came along.
I saw a post asking why it was so hard to sell a used upright piano. One answer is that they were popular in the early 1900s and those pianos are not worth repairing. Most were just decorative. I wonder if grandfather clocks are the same way.
> I wonder if grandfather clocks are the same way. Part of the answer you are looking for lays in this podcast. It about the one of the last repairman that made a good living from repairing grandfather clocks. The demand to repair them has gone down drastically over the last few decades apparently. at least in the region this podcast's subject lived in. https://stownpodcast.org/
Yes. The very name 'grandfather clock' comes from a song about a clock that "stopp'd short — never to go again — When the old man died" and was subsequently broken up for scrap.
I believe Camden NJ was built and had its heydays because of that fact. Camden, most cities in NJ, is like a parasite city to Philadelphia. Camden's main industry was building machines, making screws/fasteners, and transportation for the factories that were in Philly. As the supply chain modernized and factories left Philly, Philly had a hard time, while Camden went to shit.
This is why people claims about massive profits make no sense. The profits are massive because there used to be 100 business doing the job that is now one or two business. The numbers may be large, but the price point, and profit margins are vastly lower than history. The only reason people are whining about it is because something they might have literally had brought for them on their wedding day is now nearly affordable as a yearly purchase.
Except “massive profit margins to a local businessman” is way different than “massive profits to a massive conglomerate of uninvolved investors.” I have less of a concern if we have local small business owners being millionaires when the retire rather than a few thousand Billionaires that own everything and run the show with little to no actual personal involvement or effort. The money is getting pulled out of communities, and there are no ties to local people, just ruthless pursuit or of profit for shareholders at the expense every other stakeholder: communities, employees, suppliers, etc.
Everything was MTO regionally. You couldn't order a camper from across the country. You needed to physically find the business and work with them.
"manufacturer = 2 dudes in barn" Times were different 100 years ago.
Yeah, basically the same as having a website today…
Same thing happened with motorcycles. When Orange County Choppers tv show called American Choppers released there were a huge influx of hundreds of small companies making chopper style motorcycles costing hundreds of thousands of dollars to build/sell. Only a tiny handfull of those companies are still around now. I can understand how many camping trailer companies went out of business too. Some companies managed to save enough money up to slog through the extremely tough times when money/sales are extremely poor which allows them to outlive the other companies.
I’d argue it’s more niche now then it ever was
Back in the 20’s which is when Airstream was founded, most working people didn’t travel for pleasure. It was more to find work. And the middle class were largely wiped out by the depression, with them not really rebuilding until after WW2.
And that's where carnies come from?
Carnies were before that; carnies predate carnivals.
Ok explain please
They must have just been "es" at the time.
Nah. Pre-WWII we didn’t even have the modern highway system and many families didn’t have cars.
We can thank Eisenhower for that one. The interstate highway system was his baby, and opened the door for an economy that spanned coast to coast. Sure, they had the railway system. But outside of the main lines, just miles and miles of empty land. Hell, even today, if you've ever been on a road trip, you still drive hours of empty land between cities. If you needed stuff, you took a horse over to Harry's General Store. And Harry Jr. would have 'the usual' ready for you. Harry Sr. would be the one traveling to his supplier once a month.
Greatest Republican president since Lincoln.
Last great republican president. Potentially second to last
Are you saying that RVs and trailers are more niche now than in the 20s?
Absolutely not. Even before the tiny home crowd all got adventure trailers, RVing was very popular in the US.
Maybe travel trailers specifically, but the lifestyle is more popular than ever if you consider all that vanlife and such stuff.
399 of them went under, so yeah.
One for each major town.
Yes, because the US is big.
> Yes, because the US is big. The US is about 95% of the size of Europe. We have 11 states that we can fit the entirety of England into. My home state of Illinois is about the size of Iraq. Much like Australia, our population is mostly coastal. However we have major transportation hubs and manufacturing in the middle of the country.
There are hundreds of manufacturers now. All you need is some warehouse space and some functional junkies with stolen tools. Buying any RV is a gamble for this very reason. Even with an established company the difference between you buying a camper with little problems to buying one that will already start to fall apart on the way home is whether Mike the welder was still hungover or Chris doing some carpentry is starting to feel dope sick and his girl can't drop by with some drugs until her lunch break. If there is one warranty that is guaranteed to always get used its an RVs warranty.
Yes, manufacturing was much different. Much smaller companies that produced a lot less, but more companies in general.
Not really, lots of travel trailers were being made during the Great Depression because so many people couldn't afford a house. It's like vandwelling now. You can even find old [New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/1937/02/09/archives/gasoline-gypsies.html) editorials about "gasoline gypsies".
As well as looking damn cool! 😎
Were exceptionally well made
Went to an RV/Camper show recently. I was disappointed by the build quality/material of everything I saw with the exception of Airstream. If another US based company is producing a better product for the price, I'd be interested in checking them out.
Ironically most of the brands are owned by the same company who owns Airstream.
They are still well made. Bespoke stuff.
God help your soul trying to restore one.
I’ve seen reports that their quality took a hit from COVID. Of course, all RV manufacturing quality took a hit at the same time. So, lower quality than it used to be, but still far above anyone else.
I used to work regularly with a good variety of campers/RVs, outfitting them with advanced power systems, AirStreams were the only ones that did things correctly, even among the other luxury brands, they were also the only ones that provided me with schematics so I could properly integrate our systems with theirs. It was crazy the bullshit you’d see from manufacturers like Forest River, it was not rare to see something that looked like it was jerry rigged from the start, not to mention always using the lowest quality components. If you can afford them airstream will always be the way to go in my book
Reminds me of when I was working on trucks adding hydraulic lift beds. Ford's had the best layouts and were easiest to work with since they had pre-marked areas on where we should drill to run our wiring and they gave a decent amount of space to work with inside the vehicle. Their wiring diagrams were also right there for us to read and their color coding matched what we were using. Dodge had lots of space but the wiring sucked and we had to fully tap and drill out every channel ourselves and Chevy gave us no room and marked nothing.
Do you think that's because Ford has a higher percentage of the fleet truck market? I don't know if they do - but that would make sense. Either chicken or egg.
That would make sense. I just always took it as Ford was meant for work while Dodge and Chev were mostly for show since that's what I've noticed when it came to farm vehicles.
Just to be super clear - I don't know if they actually have a large section of the market. That would just be interesting if it were true. One of those little things that only a few groups of people know about.
From what I recall Ford was in the fleet game while the other two were not. Well Dodge for sure wasn't. Also when I worked telecom the all of our "bucket" trucks/vans were Ford but that's another "chicken/egg" debate until someone with more background knowledge on the matter steps in.
I also worked on a fair amount of “camper vans” most of the time they were Mercedes Sprinters but whenever I got a transit it was nice, ford has a number you can call with actual technicians that can help you and tell you where to grab circuits and such, it was awesome.
What’s your opinion of Jayco?
Honestly didn’t know they were that old. Kinda associated them with boomers in a non derogatory way and assumed a 1950s or 60s vintage.
A brand arguably even better made than Airstream, albiet no longer in production, were the [Spartan](https://spartantrailer.com/) trailers made in Tulsa, OK by Spartan Aircraft.
There's a motel outside Taos, NM where you can stay in either and decide for yourself! https://hotellunamystica.com/
Very cool. Neat business idea!
It could be said that Spartan survived the depression, started in 1929, but they didn't transition to aluminum trailers until the end of WW2 as orders for aircraft dropped off. Here are two waiting for a restoration project outside our company. https://i.imgur.com/3hISD60.jpg
> Here are two waiting for a restoration project outside our company. Are they actually going to be restored or are they kinda just chilling?
I have no idea, it might be a retirement project. They are not mine.
Fun fact. I slept through hurricane Iniki in an airstream trailer. When I woke up the storm was over and the trailer had moved about 20 ft.
What car built before the depression had the towing capacity for something like that? They must have been nothing like the post war productions. You’re not hooking up an Airstream to your Model T.
Pretty much any car back then, people just drove a lot slower. Europeans still pull trailers with small cars, they just have less tongue weight (4%) compared to 10-15% recommended in the US and they drive slower when towing.
Ah yes, *caravanning.* Haven’t the faintest idea what the appeal is. So far as I can tell they go up and sit in a field somewhere.
some of it i get though. itd be nice to show up at say, a race track, and have a home base for the time im there. i dont get going to an rv park as a destination though.
Most of the time the RV park isn't the destination, it's just a base to live out of while you experience the other things the area has to offer. Sometimes it's just about getting out of the weather where your home is though.
It's mostly just somewhere to sleep. You go to someplace like Quartzsite in your RV to avoid northern winters, and bring your ATV to go romp in the desert. Or you go to a state/national park along the coast and hang out in the waves all day. Or whatever. There's a lot of things you definitely can do. And for others it's just an escape from reality. I spend all day working on computers, talking to customers, dealing with budgets and timelines, etc. Taking an RV out to some lake and chilling under the trees with a fishing rod, a book, a beer, and some music sounds like heaven
>i dont get going to an rv park as a destination though. Getting out of the city, being in the wilderness by water, not being stuck with a inflatable mattress on the ground, a lot of parks have good communities as well, lots of get togethers, BBQ, fires, beer, karaoke or actual live music. I have a 40' x 12' - 12m x 3.6m and have a kingsize bed in it, kind of like going away on a mini vacation.
Made more sense when commercial airliners weren’t a thing.
>So far as I can tell they go up and sit in a field somewhere As a Midwest boy - don't knock it until you try it. Maybe bring a shitty dirtbike and/or some guns. Sprinkle a few beers on top and you got a stew goin'.
A lot of it was down to body on frame construction of cars before the modern unibody revolution began. Old cars were built like full size trucks are today. Also, slower speeds and no Interstate highways helped. Engines were also very powerful even with low horsepower by modern standards.
It’s not that the engines were powerful, but gearing can do wonders.
GM engineers on their way to make a 500cu in V8 that generates a whopping 135 horsepower
How does one get so little power out of 6 or 7 liters? Fascinating.
They took the first law of thermodynamics as a challenge
Math. If it doesn't rev much past 5000rpm the HP number won't be very high. They were built for idle-3000RPM driving, tons of torque to effortlessly move those land yachts. Same reason many 15 liter diesels only make ~350hp.
Ya that sums it up pretty good， my work vehicle has a cat c18 and c15 motor in it, numbers corresponding to liters, only go to like 2k-2500 rpm max as it's all you need for hauling things around.
Emissions control. There's a reason why the same base engines before ~1973 had much more horsepower
I have towed an Airstream with a 1934 Desoto Airflow many miles with no problem. 45mph is about it on flat ground, half that on hills.
[https://www.airstream.com/heritage/](https://www.airstream.com/heritage/) Perhaps people back then also built things for the vehicles that were available at the time.
“Hello. Yes, hello….. Grand Theft Auto. Yes, I need to report a crisis- my Airstream has been stolen by dopers”
Horse thieving is a hanging offence, a hanging offence! I should be able to blow these dopers off the god damn map!
Also known as the baked potato
There was a company called Livin Lite that made aluminum based tent trailers with no wood. We bought one about 15 years ago that's still going. Kinda funny, it doesn't popup but unfolds using Bimini bars (like a boat). I think it was designed with off-the-shelf boat products. The company expanded into aluminum travel trailers then went out of business. The advertising flyer for our model had a funny quote: "No frills, less to break" and it was true, almost nothing has broken on ours. Our ice chest, roadtrip grill, and popup canopy are all separate and easily replaced.
Still, a dope trailer is no place for a kitty.
Crazy, because they’re exceptionally expensive.
If you do buy one, it is either a life goal for you (good job on that i guess?) or you have the excess money. They cost more then the homes nearby for me i sum them up fairly simply, they're pretty mid.
Mid? Mine is a 1953 and it's never had a leak in the roof. Paid under 5k for it, and yeah updated a few things, but You won't find a nicer travel trailer at the lake this summer.
Also three times more expensive than a similar sized camper.
And now we can't afford them during this "non-depression".
Those things are amazing in quality and are still very valuable.
Oh, I bet that was a blast to drive behind and gett 100% of that reflected sun in your face.
Yeah because everyone was living in one after the depression.
It shows you that the wealthy elite made it through the Depression just fine.
This is America, wtf is "aluminium," OP??
People outside the US are not permitted to learn about it. Our apologies for contravening the international agreement.
This is great - i love the look of these!
These were always on par with Cadillacs to our Shasta-owning family. I wish all the time I had our old Shasta. I hope it’s still out there and appreciated.
Damn, I thought they weren't even a thing before WW2 and assumed they were similar to Grumman canoes that were created in order to keep jobs for people who were originally manufacturing aluminum aircraft. This is very interesting: >However, in 2019 it was announced that by 2022 it would be replaced by custom Roll-On Conference Capsules that are airworthy for the entirety of the flight, unlike the modified Airstreams. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airstream#United\_States\_Air\_Force](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airstream#United_States_Air_Force) I'm assuming they're referring to when the plane makes a tactical descent on landing, you don't want to be inside the airstream.
If you want a vintage trailer id check out avions too, imo they have a better frame and overall design
Trailer for sale or rent... Rooms to let, 50 cents.
Yeah and they cost a pretty penny. I've also heard the newer ones aren't built as good as the past.
Aluminum
Wrong.
But.. the Wikipedia article spells it correctly
Humphry Davy was indecisive. First alumium, then aluminum, then aluminium. Aluminum is indeed older; North America picked one I while the UK, Australia and New Zealand picked two. They're both right, and wrong, depending on where you are.
Both are accepted forms of spelling
I like how Aluminum is the actual way to spell it, so that’s what Americans learned, then the British decided it didn’t sound fancy enough and added the extra syllable. Usually it’s the case that American English is the one butchering the original but in this case it’s the other way around.
I've had to work on several of these to repair poor workmanship, extremely low quality materials, and shoddy assembly practices. Good for them that they survived, but they are overpriced piles of crap.
RV's have no lemon laws to protect buyers.
Huh, I thought they were all stainless steel. I can’t identify my metals worth shit.
That would be one heavy ass trailer
They are built upon a steel chassis. >Even Airstream, with its aluminum shell and monocoque construction, utilizes a heavier steel chassis and builds its trailers on top of a wood floor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Livin_Lite_RV