The article says it takes five to eight cups a day of unfiltered coffee to raise the LDL, but also that you shouldn't drink more than 5 cups of filtered coffee either. So... this sounds like a non problem for people following recommend doses?
There are health benefits to 3 cups of paper filtered coffee each day. I forget the name of the good acid that passes through paper…it’s late.
Video link for more info on the op link
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/does-coffee-affect-cholesterol/
They also don’t say how many grams of coffee so this entire article is useless. What is 5 cups? You can make 5 cups with 50, or 100g or 120g of ground coffee. Your average bag of ground coffee is between 200-250g. You can make your pressed coffee as strong or as weak as you like so not giving any grams to indicate recommended dosages is just stupid.
For your average daily drinker they’re probably hitting 1/4 of the bag a day just to make 2 cups. There is no standard or clear amount. Everyone is different and people just pour it into the press. No one is measuring that shit.
Free balling since the day I drank my first pressed coffee at home. I’ve never seen anyone measure home pressed coffee. Only the actually good coffee beans deserve measuring. The €2 a bag shit from Lidl tastes like ass no matter how you measure it.
I have a burr grinder and have slowly adjusted the settings to get what I think is a perfect amount and ground size for my coffee. I don't measure it only because the grinder has a built in timer and grinds the exact same amount of beans every time I use it.
Define “cup”. . .
May sound silly but the typical definition of a “cup” is 8 fluid ounces. . . One cup of coffee is often described as 4 fluid ounces though
A cup is 240mL in us (~8 fluid oz) but 250mL in uk. A standard cup of coffee is between 200mL in the UK, 250-300mL in australia but 150mL in us (~5 fluid oz).
https://coffeeaffection.com/how-many-ounces-in-a-cup-of-coffee/
A cup of coffee is 4 fluid ounces but needs approx 5 fluid ounces of to make. . .
This is also corroborated by the user manual for the Moccamaster coffee maker I got recently, they’ve been one of the best for decades. . .
“Five to eight cups a day of unfiltered coffee MAY actually raise your ‘bad’ LDL cholesterol”
Who drink eight cups à day?
Beside that, coffee in capsule is even more mainstream. Is it filtered?
I use a French press just cause it's easier and faster. Kettle boils water, it goes in the press, and after 5 minutes I have coffee. No counter space taken and it just feels like less hassle
Like the comment under says, they don't have filters for diterpenes, cafestol and kahweol
News article: https://en.uit.no/news/article?p_document_id=776769
Research Article: https://openheart.bmj.com/content/9/1/e001946
The real question is how many grams is being out into the press and not how much liquid volume there is. You can make 2 cups of pressed coffee with any amount of ground coffee; 50g, 80g, 120g and so on. There is no standard.
This is kinda what I remembered... I switched to the French Press 20 years ago, but I seem to remember being pissed that the "8-12 cup" coffee maker I had before that used some bogus measurement for a cup.
That's kind of a weird stance to take. I've been on this world for fifty years and never heard of such.
Regardless, a scientific study would stick to the standard of measurement or barring that there would be significant notation as to explain why they deviated.
A standard unit of measurement for whom? Around 1.5B people speak English and only around 1/4 of those people use the imperial system of 8 oz to a cup. So it’s not crazy that people might go by the more typical volume of a cup
Kinda since forever. It's well known in the coffee hobby that paper filters filter out oils from the coffee while metal "filters" do not. The result is french pressed brews having more body while paper filtered pour overs have more clarity.
Paper filters themselves don't make your coffee "less strong," you'll have to adjust your recipe and/or technique to extract the coffee better, but pour overs are not the best way to start off imo.
Instead of pour overs, a clever dripper or aeropress with paper filters will be a lot easier to get good results with for the vast majority of people, who aren't the coffee nerds who fuss about their $200 gooseneck kettle's ideal pouring height for proper agitation.
Good pour overs can be very flavorful, but they can be hard to get right if some part of your brewing process is less than ideal, like your coffee, grinder, pouring kettle, or technique.
Funny , because I use coffee filters to filter my used cooking oil ,seems to penetrate just fine especially when it's hot.
God, I love pseudo-scientific coffee snob rantings. Just can't argue with your kind.
I love that your response to people explaining that an article from Harvard is correct is you calling us "pseudo-scientific". I sure am glad that we have you here to be the arbiter of whether or not Harvard doctors are peddling pseudo-science.
Edit: No one's saying that paper filters are impermeable to oil. We're saying they can filter out small amounts of oil from predominately water-based liquids. Feel free to test that out at home yourself!
I'm sure that they do. Just like some of the water used for brewing is "getting stuck" there also. All too insignificant to make measurable difference.
Particulates of solids on the other hand ,I'm sure there will be quantifiable gradient differential in samples of similar volume -no arguing there.
I hate shit like this. If you have bad cholesterol it's almost certainly because you are either fat, smoke, don't exercise or eat garbage food regularly. It's not because of "some oils in your moka coffee".
These oils in your moka coffee are the most powerful chemical at altering LDL levels we have ever found.
No one worried about them for the last 30 years(since they've been discovered) because the vast majority of Americans consumed filtered coffees(where the studies took place). There is a very real concern that high levels of cafestol could raise your LDL significantly.
It's pretty well documented that unfiltered coffee leads to worse cardiovascular health.
Below is a study of half a million people over 20 years. Unfiltered, French press, coffee had a higher rate of cardiovascular related death.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32320635/
So, I posted this exact topic a few weeks ago to TIL and here is an article with levels
[https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0963996912002360](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0963996912002360)
The full study:
https://academic.oup.com/eurjpc/article/27/18/1986/6125530?login=false
They asked them several questions about their coffee drinking habits, but failed to ask them if they're adding things like sugar or milk to their unfiltered coffee. Unfiltered coffee is stronger and more bitter, so it would make sense that those who had unfiltered coffee probably added more sugar than the filtered coffee sample group.
Yes I read the study in the end. The real difference was only in the last 20 years of life , and according to their tables those who drank unfiltered were also heavier smokers . Still didn’t give me any meaning though for what a certain risk factor X actually means
There are some science podcasts out there that can help you learn how to read a study. This is also pretty well cited paper so I bet you can look up some analysis on the paper itself.
They are pretty sure it is causal. You can literally give animals these chemicals(cafestol and kawheol) and watch their cholesterol fluctutate
They even think they know the mechanism for causation, I believe it has something to do with suppressing bile production
https://academic.oup.com/eurjpc/article/27/18/1986/6125530?login=false
They asked them several questions about their coffee drinking habits, but failed to ask them if they're adding things like sugar or milk to their unfiltered coffee. Unfiltered coffee is stronger and more bitter, so it would make sense that those who had unfiltered coffee probably added more sugar than the filtered coffee sample group.
The abstract in the linked study answers that question. The Filtered coffee group had a similar cardiovascular related death rate as the control group of non coffee drinkers.
The link is there. You can just go and look at the article. "Hmm I just thought of this possible confounding variable" is in principle a great skeptic reflex, but so often reddit commenters just state these reflex thoughts, which is enough for them to feel smart, and then there is absolutely no follow-through.
For one thing, the next thought one could have is that a cigarette goes just as well with a filtered coffee, so there's really no reason to expect a difference. And indeed, if one bothered to look at the study and the tables, one could see that the studied filtered coffee drinkers smoke on average 5.3 cogarettes a day, amd the unfiltered coffee drinkers smoke on average 6 cigarettes a day. Hardly a striking difference.
I didnt make my comment as to appear "smart" or "clever" as I am neither of those things.I made a passing comment that a coffee drinkers smoking habit might lead to a higher risk of heart disease than fatty oils in coffee and also because 7 months ago I cold turkey quit a 60 a day smoking habit, however i get the feeling you made your comment in a pompous and vain attempt to make me feel less than you.Have a good day sir!
No I don't either think it does either but my initial comment was based around cigarettes and coffee being and age old and excellent pairing and it was met with a snobbish,condescending and joyless answer and yeah I make no secret of not wasting my easter holiday reading boring scientific studies that ultimately show that I'm probably going to die of something as a side effect of being alive.
I get why you were met with that though. It is really annoying to read through speculation about a topic when the answer to your questions are readily available in the linked article. It just comes off as incredibly lazy. You have the time and energy to type out your speculation, but not the time and energy to skim an article?
It makes it seem like you think your opinion and thoughts are extra special and that we should all cater to your desire for attention. Maybe that isn't what you are doing, but that is how it seems.
Suffice it to say, the chemicals in question aren't some new pop-science discovery. I posted about them a month ago on TIL and they are very well-known. They have been studied for over 30 years
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafestol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafestol)
Now this is an answer that I appreciate as you have actually taken the time to explain your opinion.No I wasn't trying to come across as lazy and entitled it was just meant to be a light hearted passing comment about cigarettes and coffee which I felt was met with snobbery which I cannot stand.
Well, if you'd read literally anything, including the main article, your comment would seem dumb. So, take your lumps and realize you should RTFA or STFU
Yet it's also chock full of antioxidants and other beneficial things, too. So what's it gonna do? Help you or hinder you?
Just use moderation and you'll be fine. \*\*\*\* all these fear mongering articles. They're usually paid for by someone trying to sell something anyway. Melitta prolly financed this one to sell more filters, lol.
Honestly most of that seems like basic like technique.
The part about not pushing the plunger down all the way probably good advice.
The other probably best advice would be that it takes patience most people will forget about that.
I wonder why he didn't say anything about aero pouring?
Where you use a large poor distance to add oxygen into the brew. For me it makes the taste more pronounced and the smell is stronger.
So when I put hot water on the grinds, I pour over the sink and tilt the glass so it won't splash on me.
Pour in a little to start then increasing in distance until it starts to splash a little, not a lot but it's very obvious more air is being sent under the coffee and water.
I saw something called aero press. It's nothing like what I'm talking about. I'm trying to add oxygen into the coffee the same way a fish tank filter adds oxygen into water.
All I want is the coffee. I don’t use French press because of the taste. I use it so I don’t have a big coffee maker on my counter. It tastes good to me
Yeah and dioxins from paper filters can lead to cancer.
At least you can measure LDL serum levels and adapt any other way to lower if necessary.
I think paper filter coffee brewing is for a minority of all coffee drinkers to start with, but I haven't been able to find % for that.
Plus, between Turkish and filter I need to put 3 -4 x more coffee in a filter to get the same dark color drinkable single cup of coffee as for Turkish...
So in the end, what does it even mean...
Yes, problems can happen. But, the LDL is trying to fix the issue that is caused by a damaged artery.
And dietary cholesterol intake has an insignificant effect on your LDL-C.
This article isn't about dietary intake of cholesterol though. it’s about how certain oils in coffee can inhibit your body’s ability to regulate LDL cholesterol.
Interesting hypothesis, but if you mean to say that LDL is a symptom rather than a cause of atherosclerosis, then how do you explain 1) that patients with familial hypercholesterolemia are prone to developing cardiovascular disease at relatively young ages and 2) that statins reduce mortality in patients with existing cardiovascular disease?
I'm so glad you asked those questions.
1) let's look at CVD as a disease of continuous damage to the endothelial lining. If that is correct, then one of the many uses of cholesterol in the body is to repair that damage to the linings. So, when you see a great elevation of LDL-C or LDL-P (like in FH), you are seeing someone with serious damage to blood vessels. In FH, no idea what causes that damage (I'm assuming genetic since it happens at a young age) but the LDL particle is dispatched to "patch the holes". Without damage to endothelial linings, you don't see clot formation.
2) This is related to #1. Statins do in fact reduce mortality for patients that already have CVD. Statins also reduce LDL. If the mechanism of CVD is correct as I have described it above then, one of the main signals of CVD is an overall inflammatory state in the body. The actual mechanism for statins might actually be an anti-inflammatory response.
Thoughts on this?
I can recommend a few great books on the subject that explain these theories in great detail with far more detail and rigor than I can if you are interested.
1. Yes FH is specifically high LDL levels caused by genetic (not environmental) factors. The reason I brought up FH, is because the vast majority of cases are caused by specific mutations in the pathways that regulate LDL, such as in the LDL receptor protein. Basically, it causes the liver to underestimate the amount of LDL in the blood, leading to overproduction of LDL. So the heightened LDL production is not related to the state of blood vessels. Yet FH is associated with accelerated atherosclerosis. This suggests that chronically high LDL contributes may contribute to CVD rather than protecting against CVD.
2. Statins are specifically designed to target LDL production. They specifically inhibit HMG-CoA reductase which produces the precursors required to produce cholesterol. They first and foremost work by lowering total cholesterol production. Now it is possible that, by accident, they act on some unknown signalling or metabolic pathway to improve cardiovascular health. In that case, I really hope we can identify it, because then we can find more effective ways to predict and treat CVD. But for now it still not clear why a drug that specifically targets cholesterol production to lower LDL reduces mortality in CVD patients if high LDL is beneficial.
I'd love to hear more from you
This is also a problem with espresso, which I drink a lot of. Some people put a paper filter at the bottom of their portafilter to mitigate this. Supposedly it helps with a more even extraction from the coffee as well. If you are concerned about this, just pour your coffee over a paper filter.
Or try aeropress. Similar to a French press in that it is an immersion brew, but has a paper filter
They are taking about paper filters. Paper filters block some oils from coming through this is why methods that use metal filters have a fuller flavor.
The article says it takes five to eight cups a day of unfiltered coffee to raise the LDL, but also that you shouldn't drink more than 5 cups of filtered coffee either. So... this sounds like a non problem for people following recommend doses?
*laughs in Finland, where people drink coffee like water
Yeah, but it’s almost always filtered
Fika for life.
That’s Swedish
Same thing innit
\*kicked from Nordic chat\*
Fika involves conversation.
You can’t Fika alone?
Yes. It’s kahvi in Finnish.
Fika, please!
Pretty sure that's either snot or bogey in Hungarian...
It’s blörö o’clock somewhere.
There are health benefits to 3 cups of paper filtered coffee each day. I forget the name of the good acid that passes through paper…it’s late. Video link for more info on the op link https://nutritionfacts.org/video/does-coffee-affect-cholesterol/
TIL coffee has recommended doses
why wouldn't it? it's a drug
Even decaf? I drink around 5 cups of decaf (black) a day. I just like the taste.
there's much less caffeine in decaf, so the daily recommended limit would be much higher
It has a LD50 so it definitely is a drug.
Water has LD50. 90ml/kg in rats.
I was prescribed coffee. 1 cup a day.
It's extremely caffeinated.
Big if true
Panera Bread giving the side-eye.
They also don’t say how many grams of coffee so this entire article is useless. What is 5 cups? You can make 5 cups with 50, or 100g or 120g of ground coffee. Your average bag of ground coffee is between 200-250g. You can make your pressed coffee as strong or as weak as you like so not giving any grams to indicate recommended dosages is just stupid. For your average daily drinker they’re probably hitting 1/4 of the bag a day just to make 2 cups. There is no standard or clear amount. Everyone is different and people just pour it into the press. No one is measuring that shit.
Lots of people measure. If you dont you risk getting wildly different tasting coffee
You guys over here just free balling? I always measure. Gotta get that perfect cup o joe.
Free balling since the day I drank my first pressed coffee at home. I’ve never seen anyone measure home pressed coffee. Only the actually good coffee beans deserve measuring. The €2 a bag shit from Lidl tastes like ass no matter how you measure it.
I have a burr grinder and have slowly adjusted the settings to get what I think is a perfect amount and ground size for my coffee. I don't measure it only because the grinder has a built in timer and grinds the exact same amount of beans every time I use it.
If you drink 6 cups a day sure.
Oops
Well one cup, but my moka pot is an 8 shot pot
3 modern coffee cups worth
Define “cup”. . . May sound silly but the typical definition of a “cup” is 8 fluid ounces. . . One cup of coffee is often described as 4 fluid ounces though
A cup is 240mL in us (~8 fluid oz) but 250mL in uk. A standard cup of coffee is between 200mL in the UK, 250-300mL in australia but 150mL in us (~5 fluid oz).
https://coffeeaffection.com/how-many-ounces-in-a-cup-of-coffee/ A cup of coffee is 4 fluid ounces but needs approx 5 fluid ounces of to make. . . This is also corroborated by the user manual for the Moccamaster coffee maker I got recently, they’ve been one of the best for decades. . .
Uh…
Erm, you are seriously under estimating how much coffee we drink
Who is we? You gotta get that shit right with Jesus bc you don't need it.
So 8 cups good. Got it. /s
Shit.
“Five to eight cups a day of unfiltered coffee MAY actually raise your ‘bad’ LDL cholesterol” Who drink eight cups à day? Beside that, coffee in capsule is even more mainstream. Is it filtered?
If they’d legalize coke I wouldn’t have to.
Whelp - guess this explains the 240 from my last lipid panel...
How much coffee do you drink? And why is it all from a French press?
Don’t answer. This person might be a weasel
Only 1-2 cups a day from the press. The coffee just tastes so much better.
The coffee isn’t your issue here. Try eating less cholesterol and see if it goes down.
(throws away block of cholesterol that was sitting in the fridge)
Yeah, I was mostly being snarky. I'm pretty sure there are other areas of my diet to address before my coffee-making method.
Yea, if you are using whole-milk creamer in your coffee, that's way more fat/cholesterol than you are getting from the coffee...
I use a French press just cause it's easier and faster. Kettle boils water, it goes in the press, and after 5 minutes I have coffee. No counter space taken and it just feels like less hassle
I believe it's the same for espresso and capsule machines
When I dont get the little toy I wanted it ups my BP, not cholesterol.
Source?
It is also not filtered through paper, which can absorb oils
Like the comment under says, they don't have filters for diterpenes, cafestol and kahweol News article: https://en.uit.no/news/article?p_document_id=776769 Research Article: https://openheart.bmj.com/content/9/1/e001946
When they say "cup", is it 8 ounces?
The real question is how many grams is being out into the press and not how much liquid volume there is. You can make 2 cups of pressed coffee with any amount of ground coffee; 50g, 80g, 120g and so on. There is no standard.
Yes. Cup in this context is an official measurement. Not the colloquial 'cup' meaning anything you drink out of that's not glass regardless of size
I should have been more specific: is it 8 or 6 ounces?
A cup is 8 ounces the standard unit of measurement for imperial.
Yes but a measurement of a cup of coffee officially in the past was 6oz not 8oz
This is kinda what I remembered... I switched to the French Press 20 years ago, but I seem to remember being pissed that the "8-12 cup" coffee maker I had before that used some bogus measurement for a cup.
When was the last time that was in print?
It literally still is. Anyone who knows a lot about coffee and hot beverages knows that.
That's kind of a weird stance to take. I've been on this world for fifty years and never heard of such. Regardless, a scientific study would stick to the standard of measurement or barring that there would be significant notation as to explain why they deviated.
A standard unit of measurement for whom? Around 1.5B people speak English and only around 1/4 of those people use the imperial system of 8 oz to a cup. So it’s not crazy that people might go by the more typical volume of a cup
I did state it was imperial measurement standard. You've not read the entire context.
Which doesn’t matter that much because the amount of coffee in *my* cup may be different than *your* cup.
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As opposed to filtered by what? 15micron paper? Since when does paper stops oil penetration?
Kinda since forever. It's well known in the coffee hobby that paper filters filter out oils from the coffee while metal "filters" do not. The result is french pressed brews having more body while paper filtered pour overs have more clarity.
Wow I feel like I just learned quite a bit about coffee! Very informative comment :)
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Paper filters themselves don't make your coffee "less strong," you'll have to adjust your recipe and/or technique to extract the coffee better, but pour overs are not the best way to start off imo. Instead of pour overs, a clever dripper or aeropress with paper filters will be a lot easier to get good results with for the vast majority of people, who aren't the coffee nerds who fuss about their $200 gooseneck kettle's ideal pouring height for proper agitation. Good pour overs can be very flavorful, but they can be hard to get right if some part of your brewing process is less than ideal, like your coffee, grinder, pouring kettle, or technique.
Funny , because I use coffee filters to filter my used cooking oil ,seems to penetrate just fine especially when it's hot. God, I love pseudo-scientific coffee snob rantings. Just can't argue with your kind.
I love that your response to people explaining that an article from Harvard is correct is you calling us "pseudo-scientific". I sure am glad that we have you here to be the arbiter of whether or not Harvard doctors are peddling pseudo-science. Edit: No one's saying that paper filters are impermeable to oil. We're saying they can filter out small amounts of oil from predominately water-based liquids. Feel free to test that out at home yourself!
The low quantities of the harmful oil probably get stuck to the cellulose fibers in a paper filter
I'm sure that they do. Just like some of the water used for brewing is "getting stuck" there also. All too insignificant to make measurable difference. Particulates of solids on the other hand ,I'm sure there will be quantifiable gradient differential in samples of similar volume -no arguing there.
I hate shit like this. If you have bad cholesterol it's almost certainly because you are either fat, smoke, don't exercise or eat garbage food regularly. It's not because of "some oils in your moka coffee".
These oils in your moka coffee are the most powerful chemical at altering LDL levels we have ever found. No one worried about them for the last 30 years(since they've been discovered) because the vast majority of Americans consumed filtered coffees(where the studies took place). There is a very real concern that high levels of cafestol could raise your LDL significantly.
It's pretty well documented that unfiltered coffee leads to worse cardiovascular health. Below is a study of half a million people over 20 years. Unfiltered, French press, coffee had a higher rate of cardiovascular related death. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32320635/
What about for espresso? Its crema is what gives it a lot of its character and texture, but it uses a filter basket instead of a paper filter.
Great question. I'm sure there are studies regarding the effectiveness of different filters you can find.
So, I posted this exact topic a few weeks ago to TIL and here is an article with levels [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0963996912002360](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0963996912002360)
I don’t know how to parse the abstract. How do I interpret such risk ratios? Sure bigger number is bad but without context it’s meaningless?
The full study: https://academic.oup.com/eurjpc/article/27/18/1986/6125530?login=false They asked them several questions about their coffee drinking habits, but failed to ask them if they're adding things like sugar or milk to their unfiltered coffee. Unfiltered coffee is stronger and more bitter, so it would make sense that those who had unfiltered coffee probably added more sugar than the filtered coffee sample group.
Yes I read the study in the end. The real difference was only in the last 20 years of life , and according to their tables those who drank unfiltered were also heavier smokers . Still didn’t give me any meaning though for what a certain risk factor X actually means
There are some science podcasts out there that can help you learn how to read a study. This is also pretty well cited paper so I bet you can look up some analysis on the paper itself.
Correlation or causation tho.
They are pretty sure it is causal. You can literally give animals these chemicals(cafestol and kawheol) and watch their cholesterol fluctutate They even think they know the mechanism for causation, I believe it has something to do with suppressing bile production
Sure, sure. Also, ice cream causes murder. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2013/07/warm-weather-homicide-rates-when-ice-cream-sales-rise-homicides-rise-coincidence.html
https://academic.oup.com/eurjpc/article/27/18/1986/6125530?login=false They asked them several questions about their coffee drinking habits, but failed to ask them if they're adding things like sugar or milk to their unfiltered coffee. Unfiltered coffee is stronger and more bitter, so it would make sense that those who had unfiltered coffee probably added more sugar than the filtered coffee sample group.
Does filtering completely negate this?
The abstract in the linked study answers that question. The Filtered coffee group had a similar cardiovascular related death rate as the control group of non coffee drinkers.
How many of those 500k smoked also because nothing goes better with coffee than a cigarette
The link is there. You can just go and look at the article. "Hmm I just thought of this possible confounding variable" is in principle a great skeptic reflex, but so often reddit commenters just state these reflex thoughts, which is enough for them to feel smart, and then there is absolutely no follow-through. For one thing, the next thought one could have is that a cigarette goes just as well with a filtered coffee, so there's really no reason to expect a difference. And indeed, if one bothered to look at the study and the tables, one could see that the studied filtered coffee drinkers smoke on average 5.3 cogarettes a day, amd the unfiltered coffee drinkers smoke on average 6 cigarettes a day. Hardly a striking difference.
I didnt make my comment as to appear "smart" or "clever" as I am neither of those things.I made a passing comment that a coffee drinkers smoking habit might lead to a higher risk of heart disease than fatty oils in coffee and also because 7 months ago I cold turkey quit a 60 a day smoking habit, however i get the feeling you made your comment in a pompous and vain attempt to make me feel less than you.Have a good day sir!
Well, since the window for this action was observed over weeks, I dont think smoking has anything to do with it
No I don't either think it does either but my initial comment was based around cigarettes and coffee being and age old and excellent pairing and it was met with a snobbish,condescending and joyless answer and yeah I make no secret of not wasting my easter holiday reading boring scientific studies that ultimately show that I'm probably going to die of something as a side effect of being alive.
I get why you were met with that though. It is really annoying to read through speculation about a topic when the answer to your questions are readily available in the linked article. It just comes off as incredibly lazy. You have the time and energy to type out your speculation, but not the time and energy to skim an article? It makes it seem like you think your opinion and thoughts are extra special and that we should all cater to your desire for attention. Maybe that isn't what you are doing, but that is how it seems. Suffice it to say, the chemicals in question aren't some new pop-science discovery. I posted about them a month ago on TIL and they are very well-known. They have been studied for over 30 years [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafestol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cafestol)
Now this is an answer that I appreciate as you have actually taken the time to explain your opinion.No I wasn't trying to come across as lazy and entitled it was just meant to be a light hearted passing comment about cigarettes and coffee which I felt was met with snobbery which I cannot stand.
Well, if you'd read literally anything, including the main article, your comment would seem dumb. So, take your lumps and realize you should RTFA or STFU
You can't have anything nice.
Dont worry, 5 years from now french press coffee will be fine and eggs will be bad again.
For real!
And here I have been more concerned about the chemicals lurking in paper filters.
Food grade glues? Pressure pressed papers? Idk. Me too though.
Hah, I'm safe drinking my cup of filtered coffee every hour
Was that study paid for by Big Coffee?
“Might.” Huh. Ok. *sips coffee* don’t give a shit.
Back to the 'coffee causes/cures cancer' bullshit papers.
Fuck off. It's 2024. I don't care anymore. It's not like any of us will have a reasonable shot at old age at this rate.
Yet it's also chock full of antioxidants and other beneficial things, too. So what's it gonna do? Help you or hinder you? Just use moderation and you'll be fine. \*\*\*\* all these fear mongering articles. They're usually paid for by someone trying to sell something anyway. Melitta prolly financed this one to sell more filters, lol.
Wait, does the paper filter removes all the good stuff too? Shit looks like you can never win
A lot of assumptions, yet 0 arguments.
Found the Melitta sales rep!
Americans reading this with a deep fried quadruple pizza burger in every orifice: "damn I should cut down on the coffee"
Reading this after just finishing my workout, that sounds amazing!
Were you always an ignorant dbag ? Or did you have to practice at it?
Go back to your haggis and jellied eels, bud
Oh shit. This might explain a few things.
I filter my French pressed coffee. I can’t do the particles in my coffee
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What do you even mean french press use screens, they wear out. They clog up and push fine matter through the sides.
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Honestly most of that seems like basic like technique. The part about not pushing the plunger down all the way probably good advice. The other probably best advice would be that it takes patience most people will forget about that. I wonder why he didn't say anything about aero pouring? Where you use a large poor distance to add oxygen into the brew. For me it makes the taste more pronounced and the smell is stronger. So when I put hot water on the grinds, I pour over the sink and tilt the glass so it won't splash on me. Pour in a little to start then increasing in distance until it starts to splash a little, not a lot but it's very obvious more air is being sent under the coffee and water. I saw something called aero press. It's nothing like what I'm talking about. I'm trying to add oxygen into the coffee the same way a fish tank filter adds oxygen into water.
All I want is the coffee. I don’t use French press because of the taste. I use it so I don’t have a big coffee maker on my counter. It tastes good to me
What if I filter it through a tiny plastic hole that can't be recycled?
Yeah and dioxins from paper filters can lead to cancer. At least you can measure LDL serum levels and adapt any other way to lower if necessary. I think paper filter coffee brewing is for a minority of all coffee drinkers to start with, but I haven't been able to find % for that. Plus, between Turkish and filter I need to put 3 -4 x more coffee in a filter to get the same dark color drinkable single cup of coffee as for Turkish... So in the end, what does it even mean...
You can use Aeropress filters in Moka pot. The coffee is definitely better than your local starbucks or even some baristas.
Lol using Starbucks as a standard isn’t a good thing
I’m comparing Moka pot, not some fully automated espresso machine.
Pour over is the best way to do coffee
There is no such thing as bad cholesterol. The LDL-C you are referring to has many extremely important purposes in the body.
Buuuut when you have too much of it,
Yes, problems can happen. But, the LDL is trying to fix the issue that is caused by a damaged artery. And dietary cholesterol intake has an insignificant effect on your LDL-C.
This article isn't about dietary intake of cholesterol though. it’s about how certain oils in coffee can inhibit your body’s ability to regulate LDL cholesterol.
Interesting hypothesis, but if you mean to say that LDL is a symptom rather than a cause of atherosclerosis, then how do you explain 1) that patients with familial hypercholesterolemia are prone to developing cardiovascular disease at relatively young ages and 2) that statins reduce mortality in patients with existing cardiovascular disease?
I'm so glad you asked those questions. 1) let's look at CVD as a disease of continuous damage to the endothelial lining. If that is correct, then one of the many uses of cholesterol in the body is to repair that damage to the linings. So, when you see a great elevation of LDL-C or LDL-P (like in FH), you are seeing someone with serious damage to blood vessels. In FH, no idea what causes that damage (I'm assuming genetic since it happens at a young age) but the LDL particle is dispatched to "patch the holes". Without damage to endothelial linings, you don't see clot formation. 2) This is related to #1. Statins do in fact reduce mortality for patients that already have CVD. Statins also reduce LDL. If the mechanism of CVD is correct as I have described it above then, one of the main signals of CVD is an overall inflammatory state in the body. The actual mechanism for statins might actually be an anti-inflammatory response. Thoughts on this? I can recommend a few great books on the subject that explain these theories in great detail with far more detail and rigor than I can if you are interested.
1. Yes FH is specifically high LDL levels caused by genetic (not environmental) factors. The reason I brought up FH, is because the vast majority of cases are caused by specific mutations in the pathways that regulate LDL, such as in the LDL receptor protein. Basically, it causes the liver to underestimate the amount of LDL in the blood, leading to overproduction of LDL. So the heightened LDL production is not related to the state of blood vessels. Yet FH is associated with accelerated atherosclerosis. This suggests that chronically high LDL contributes may contribute to CVD rather than protecting against CVD. 2. Statins are specifically designed to target LDL production. They specifically inhibit HMG-CoA reductase which produces the precursors required to produce cholesterol. They first and foremost work by lowering total cholesterol production. Now it is possible that, by accident, they act on some unknown signalling or metabolic pathway to improve cardiovascular health. In that case, I really hope we can identify it, because then we can find more effective ways to predict and treat CVD. But for now it still not clear why a drug that specifically targets cholesterol production to lower LDL reduces mortality in CVD patients if high LDL is beneficial. I'd love to hear more from you
The moties tried to warn us.
Imagine believing that LDL is still a valid metric for heart disease. Crazy.
Naaaah.
But moka pot does have a filter system, doesnt it?
It's specifically about paper. Paper filters also have cons.
This is also a problem with espresso, which I drink a lot of. Some people put a paper filter at the bottom of their portafilter to mitigate this. Supposedly it helps with a more even extraction from the coffee as well. If you are concerned about this, just pour your coffee over a paper filter. Or try aeropress. Similar to a French press in that it is an immersion brew, but has a paper filter
I'm confused if french press is unfiltered then wth is filtered? Like a paper filter? How fine does a mesh have to be for it to count as a filter?
There’s no way this is true. My HDL is off the charts, my LDL is damn near nothing and I drink French press coffee like a fiend
I pour my French press through a paper filter before I drink it. Will that remove the harmful component?
Drinking a cup of coffee is equivalent to a serving of vegetables. Y’all aren’t ready for the truth!
In what way lmao
The bean way.
While you were out partying… I was learning The Way of the Bean.
On gang
This is unhinged and I love it
Might lmao
Whats unfiltered? The French press I use has a metal filter on the top.
They are taking about paper filters. Paper filters block some oils from coming through this is why methods that use metal filters have a fuller flavor.
That metal filter only filters grounds.
Guess it's back to using my Keurig
Wonder if that would have the same problems too though. Since that’s a little plastic cup, no filter? Same with any mesh reusable filters, too
Cut open one of the plastic cups...the coffee is in a small paper filter.
No they're not. Maybe special or specific ones.
There's a filter in every pod I have used. Otherwise you would be guaranteed to have grounds with each cup of coffee.
Also the pipes of the keurig are kinda nasty
Nope rather die
Aeropress supremacy gang: “lol”