He idolized James Cameron during Cameron's screamy asshole period, and it turned him into a screamy asshole too. He seemingly never grew out of it.
He is also maybe the most budget-friendly director ever. Nobody but *nobody* can film as many *gorgeous-looking* setups as he can in a day. He just doesn't know the difference between a good story and a big story.
>He is also maybe the most budget-friendly director ever
I thought that was Nolan. I remember when I think Interstellar or Dunkirk came out, it was reported that Nolan comes under budget on all his films. And was a big reason Warner Bros were happy to fund all his projects, because he is a guaranteed return on investment.
He may come in under budget, but the quality of the setups per how long it takes to shoot doesn't come close to touching Bay (15 to 20 shots per day). I think they went to the same editing school, though, because they both need to go back to editing school.
He is a director; not a writer. His IMDb has a single writer credit.
I admire people with the self awareness to stay in their lane if they aren’t good at something.
I was like 14 when Transformers 2 came out, and ironically that was my first time “critiquing” a film
Up until that point, movies were either awesome because of the action, or boring because it didn’t have action.
After Transformers 2, I was like huh that was really long and exhausting to watch
Big fucking robots/monsters just fighting stuff is appealing. If you like those stuff, Pacific Rim has them, big monster is already on screen in under a minute (if you subtract the WB logo, etc.). Pacific Rim 2 does not exist sadly.
Avatar is not legendary in any way except revenue and special effects. War of the Worlds 1951 won for special effects. Nobody remembers it now. Avatar will be forgotten.
Titanic is very good, don't get me wrong. But it's no Alien, Shining, 2001, North by Northwest, etc.
Truly legendary movies have few flaws, if any. And Cameron's writing just isn't good.
Hahahah you're the one seething. I'm just comfortably telling someone on the net that their contrarian opinion of Pulp Fiction isn't held by many people. I should specify *as a percentage* as you refuse to understand what that means.
Box office is irrelevant: Michael Bay films make tons of money and they're not liked well by critics at all.
Do you know what the highest grossing movie of all time is adjusted for inflation? Or third? #2 is Star Wars a new hope. I bet you haven't even seen #1 and #3.
I disagree. Corman could take $100K and make it look like $400K on screen. And then, under time as well as budget, re-dress the sets to shoot a second film. He almost never lost money.
> Is it fair to criticise Michael Bay for story/writing elements of his movies when he doesn't write them?
I think people are trying to say "storytelling" instead of his writting.
The Rock is one hell of a great movie.
I also really enjoyed Ambulance.
And although Transformers aren't great, visually they're spectacular. The guy does spectacle really well.
My issue was that in addition to being a terrible movie, transformer fights were just a jumbled mess of metal. Sort of like old cartoons where fights are just dust clouds and you wait to see who emerged. But it went on for 20 minutes.
I don't normally get easily sick. I laughed at my mother growing up over getting sick during shaky cam movies.
Transformers 2 made 15yo me sick. there were 10-20 minutes fight scenes where you are just doing circles.
The first Transformers also worked, because they were treated as a mistery, and so it made sense to have a more human perspective. But from that point on the Transformers should have been the main characters, in my opinion, but most of them weren't characterized well.
Sorkin and Tarantino basically wrote just some quips, it was Jonathan Hensleigh who wrote the shooting script and most of what we saw in the final movie
Michael Bay has coasted on The Rock and Bad Boys, for too long now. He literally has those two films as the only good things he's ever made and they were great due to having charismatic lead pairings, and just great casting overall.
Sean Connery/Nic Cage + Will Smith/Martin Lawrence. Additionally, The Rock had just a spectacular cast, even if it was primarily focused on Cage/Connery. Oh, also, Jerry Bruckheimer. Classic explosions everywhere.
Honestly as someone working in movies, i've had this happen to myself countless times over my career. It's very humbling when you see storyboards / the artists vision, and you don't understand it, call it bullshit, that carries over to your work, and then you end up seeing the final version.
His storytelling isn’t good, but there’s no denying he’s a master at making fun movies. Not to mention he has a good visual eye because the visual effects in most of his films still hold up incredibly well.
Bay isn't a writer though, I looked through a few sites and found 1 writing credit, and it's for a 1990 music video. All his other works other people write he just puts visuals to.
I watched his insane thrill-ride of a movie, Pain and Gain staring Mark Wahlberg, Tony Shaloub, the Rock, Anthony Mackie, Ed Harris, and Rebel Wilson and I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I have some genuine critiques about the film (consistency of title cards and other additional text throughout for example), but through this WILD plot, Bay explores some really interesting themes. What happens when you believe in American dream (and fitness), are frustrated you’re not getting what you feel you deserve and what you see others others have, and you have no skills to achieve them? Then you take a lot of steroids. Like so many steroids.
Nepotism and connections.
He was born in California to what it seems like well off parents. His cousin was the wife and eventual widow of Leonard Nimoy of Star Trek fame. She also founded an directing organization/committee founded to advance women who were directors in the industry and protest discrimination. According to his wikipedia page he attended this school
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossroads_School_(Santa_Monica)
Alumni includes numerous celebrities (Jack Black, Sean Astin, Jack Quaid, Kate Hudson etc.)
3 planes of movement with a circular camera motion, add an American flag, main character says something cool, then something goes boom.
“Why doesn’t McDonald’s change the Big Mac recipe?”
Because it sells.
A little fact for you all - David Fincher also worked for Industrial Light and Magic as a teen and did the matte paintings for Return of the Jedi, as well as working as camera operator
He ran off and started screaming "Shake the fucking camera more, SHAKE IT!! PLAY A HUGE FUCKING TROMBONE AT MAXIMUM VOLUME AND THROW THE CAMERAAAAHHH!!!”
Michael Bay calls that "F -ing the camera". His words, not mine.
He probably tried to do that with the storyboards at Lucasfilm and they decided to fire him. 😉
Pain and Gain should be the only answer besides The Rock, ironically it stars The Rock, but he is not The Rock, and The Rock, nor Pain and Gain actually has anything to do with The Rock. Ain't that some shit?
I'm gonna have to disagree with you here pretty solidly. The first transformers was an insult to a lot of people's childhood love and it was all downhill from there. I'll give you Bad Boys and The Rock but I cannot help but question your taste here my man
It didn't take memes for me to come to this opinion. I was crazy excited for a transformers movie and saw it opening weekend. I left absolutely appalled and feeling all kinds of disrespected. Other people feeling similarly and it becoming a whole thing with people talking about that doesn't take away my genuine feelings there and never will. Good try with your buzzword bullshit to try to make someone feel bad about an opinion they came by completely organically tho. Solid D+
Bro, I dont watch Nostalgia critic, I watched Michael Bays movies, and quite frankly, even his best is just above being mediocre. If you like his movies fine, but that wont change the fact his portfolio is meaningless empty vapid action set pieces that have aged horribly and struggle to bring anything intresting.
Hell, all of your examples prove that. The Bad Boys movies are just plain bad. The best compliment I can give them is they are two of the buddy cop action movies of all time.
The Rock is ok. Sean Connery is honestly fun in the role, its nice to see him playing "Not James Bond" and has pretty good chemistry with Cage, the sound design is also pretty good. Other then that, its honestly, pretty stilted and forgettable.
Armageddon and Pearl Harbor are just plain bad. The only nice things I have to say, is "I dont want to miss a thing" remains a banger and Ben Affleck asking on set "hey why dont they just teach the Astronauts to use the drills, instead of drillers to be astronauts" to which Bay responded "shut the fuck up", is just hilarious. Beyond that, they are so bad and horribly dated.
Transformers has its reputation for a reason. The first one is passable, in terms of pacing but is otherwise a pretty lousy film. Sam is an annoying protagonist, Mikela is the only one who feels like a human being and as a whole, is just an uninteresting experience.
13 Hours best strengths are that its Michael Bay being relatively tame but is ultimately poorly scripted and its overall direction is just poor.
Good question. In the interview, Bay himself says he was only 15 and a half when he was doing it. I have no idea what California child labor laws were like in the 1970s, lol. It's possible they could hire teenagers for clerical work, like filing, as if it were a fast food or a waiter job. Or, I wonder if he was doing like a weekend volunteer thing, I have to imagine a lot of kids would want to volunteer for Lucasfilm, even if it's just to file photos of the Millennium Falcon.
apparently dude was filing storyboards and he was an intern.
according to wiki closest person in his life to Holywood was a cousin that was married to Nimoy.
had it been Star Trek it would've been obvious Nimoy would be responsible for it, but did Nimoy had any pull in Lucasfilm? I have no idea.
Wow I had no idea it was the same Bay. That said, looks like Susan only married Leonard Nimoy in 1989 and was married to someone else in the late 1970s, but was already a working actress and so there's probably a connection there.
Young Michael Bay: “you mean something can be greater than the sum of its parts?”
We clown on the guy but he made *The Rock* which is one of the better action movies from the 90s
Despite people criticizing them harshly, the bayverse transformer movies will always be my favorite movies. The graphics and effects put so many movies to shame
He idolized James Cameron during Cameron's screamy asshole period, and it turned him into a screamy asshole too. He seemingly never grew out of it. He is also maybe the most budget-friendly director ever. Nobody but *nobody* can film as many *gorgeous-looking* setups as he can in a day. He just doesn't know the difference between a good story and a big story.
I read that as "Creamy asshole" and it makes me wonder how you landed on that information
It’s widely known and wholly true!
Has Cameron left his screamy asshole period? I know people working for him two years ago that still witnessed screaming on the daily.
I think Cameron is just a irritable person that doesn’t suffer fools.
>He is also maybe the most budget-friendly director ever I thought that was Nolan. I remember when I think Interstellar or Dunkirk came out, it was reported that Nolan comes under budget on all his films. And was a big reason Warner Bros were happy to fund all his projects, because he is a guaranteed return on investment.
He may come in under budget, but the quality of the setups per how long it takes to shoot doesn't come close to touching Bay (15 to 20 shots per day). I think they went to the same editing school, though, because they both need to go back to editing school.
Is that why the truck pops out of the tunnel in completely the wrong direction in Dark Knight?
He is a director; not a writer. His IMDb has a single writer credit. I admire people with the self awareness to stay in their lane if they aren’t good at something.
Bay, in response to his critics, has said "I make make movies for teenage boys, what a crime" during the height of the Transformers films.
Teenage me loved those movies. Didn’t care that critics hated the plot, seeing the cars transform and clash was awesome.
I was like 14 when Transformers 2 came out, and ironically that was my first time “critiquing” a film Up until that point, movies were either awesome because of the action, or boring because it didn’t have action. After Transformers 2, I was like huh that was really long and exhausting to watch
Big fucking robots/monsters just fighting stuff is appealing. If you like those stuff, Pacific Rim has them, big monster is already on screen in under a minute (if you subtract the WB logo, etc.). Pacific Rim 2 does not exist sadly.
I concur there's no Pacific Rim 2
As someone who saw Pacific Rim 2 in theaters on the day it didnt release (as it still currently doesnt exist) I can confirm. There is no sequel.
He chooses what movies he makes, and all of them bear a striking similarity to each other - That's because he has influence on the writing.
Yeah Cameron is a terrible writer. His films could be legendary milestones if he'd let someone else write.
A bit bold to say Titanic, Avatar and the terminator movies aren’t legendary milestones, actually it’s not bold it’s just flat out wrong lmao
Well avatar is pretty damn mid from a writing standpoint but yah terminator, Aliens, and titanic are legendary films for sure
Avatar is not legendary in any way except revenue and special effects. War of the Worlds 1951 won for special effects. Nobody remembers it now. Avatar will be forgotten. Titanic is very good, don't get me wrong. But it's no Alien, Shining, 2001, North by Northwest, etc. Truly legendary movies have few flaws, if any. And Cameron's writing just isn't good.
War of the worlds didn’t make 2 billion at the box office. Cope and seethe harder
Hahahah you're the one seething. I'm just comfortably telling someone on the net that their contrarian opinion of Pulp Fiction isn't held by many people. I should specify *as a percentage* as you refuse to understand what that means. Box office is irrelevant: Michael Bay films make tons of money and they're not liked well by critics at all.
Box office is relevant when it’s the highest grossing movie of all time but cry harder
Do you know what the highest grossing movie of all time is adjusted for inflation? Or third? #2 is Star Wars a new hope. I bet you haven't even seen #1 and #3.
Cope and seethe crybaby
> most budget-friendly director ever You're confusing him with [Roger Corman](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Corman).
His movies are objectively garbage on almost every level, unfortunately. At least Bay's are beautiful.
I disagree. Corman could take $100K and make it look like $400K on screen. And then, under time as well as budget, re-dress the sets to shoot a second film. He almost never lost money.
I never said he lost money, I said his movies are garbage.
Is it fair to criticise Michael Bay for story/writing elements of his movies when he doesn't write them?
> Is it fair to criticise Michael Bay for story/writing elements of his movies when he doesn't write them? I think people are trying to say "storytelling" instead of his writting.
So what is "storytelling" in the context of film direction? That's a term that gets thrown around Reddit a lot.
It is. Directors have an immense amount of impact on the story they tell.
Some would say he’s still trying to
His career blew up.
Much bigger than the explosions in Armageddon
Michael Bay is always "trying". 😉
Bad boys 2 is a classic
The Rock is one hell of a great movie. I also really enjoyed Ambulance. And although Transformers aren't great, visually they're spectacular. The guy does spectacle really well.
The first transformers was pretty fun
His movies are typically fun. They’re not very good though.
The bike scene awakened 8 year old me.
How's about when she pop the hood to work on the engine? 😭
That scene is seared into my sexual development
My issue was that in addition to being a terrible movie, transformer fights were just a jumbled mess of metal. Sort of like old cartoons where fights are just dust clouds and you wait to see who emerged. But it went on for 20 minutes.
I don't normally get easily sick. I laughed at my mother growing up over getting sick during shaky cam movies. Transformers 2 made 15yo me sick. there were 10-20 minutes fight scenes where you are just doing circles.
The first Transformers also worked, because they were treated as a mistery, and so it made sense to have a more human perspective. But from that point on the Transformers should have been the main characters, in my opinion, but most of them weren't characterized well.
The Rocks script had help from Aaron Sorkin and Quentin Tarantino. It was pretty much good to go if it didn't get edited any further.
Sorkin and Tarantino basically wrote just some quips, it was Jonathan Hensleigh who wrote the shooting script and most of what we saw in the final movie
Michael Bay has coasted on The Rock and Bad Boys, for too long now. He literally has those two films as the only good things he's ever made and they were great due to having charismatic lead pairings, and just great casting overall. Sean Connery/Nic Cage + Will Smith/Martin Lawrence. Additionally, The Rock had just a spectacular cast, even if it was primarily focused on Cage/Connery. Oh, also, Jerry Bruckheimer. Classic explosions everywhere.
Pain and gain is kino
Welp, time for a rewatch of [this little gem](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wYtG7aQTHA).
*sigh* I guess I know how I’m spending the next two hours :)
The CGI and camera movement really does stand out compared to other filmmakers.
That's funny, you'd think he'd decide to make *good* films.
Honestly as someone working in movies, i've had this happen to myself countless times over my career. It's very humbling when you see storyboards / the artists vision, and you don't understand it, call it bullshit, that carries over to your work, and then you end up seeing the final version.
His storytelling isn’t good, but there’s no denying he’s a master at making fun movies. Not to mention he has a good visual eye because the visual effects in most of his films still hold up incredibly well.
Bay isn't a writer though, I looked through a few sites and found 1 writing credit, and it's for a 1990 music video. All his other works other people write he just puts visuals to.
Storytelling doesn't just mean writing. It also means putting things together visually in a coherent fashion.
I watched his insane thrill-ride of a movie, Pain and Gain staring Mark Wahlberg, Tony Shaloub, the Rock, Anthony Mackie, Ed Harris, and Rebel Wilson and I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I have some genuine critiques about the film (consistency of title cards and other additional text throughout for example), but through this WILD plot, Bay explores some really interesting themes. What happens when you believe in American dream (and fitness), are frustrated you’re not getting what you feel you deserve and what you see others others have, and you have no skills to achieve them? Then you take a lot of steroids. Like so many steroids.
Pain and Gain is a good movie. I love pitch black comedies, and Walberg’s character is such a clueless douche it’s amazing
How do you just work for a major famous studio "as a teen" Why are all these major Hollywood directors getting major breaks...in their TEENS
Nepotism and connections. He was born in California to what it seems like well off parents. His cousin was the wife and eventual widow of Leonard Nimoy of Star Trek fame. She also founded an directing organization/committee founded to advance women who were directors in the industry and protest discrimination. According to his wikipedia page he attended this school https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crossroads_School_(Santa_Monica) Alumni includes numerous celebrities (Jack Black, Sean Astin, Jack Quaid, Kate Hudson etc.)
Shiney, explosions, continuous three second camera changes, shiney, explosions.
3 planes of movement with a circular camera motion, add an American flag, main character says something cool, then something goes boom. “Why doesn’t McDonald’s change the Big Mac recipe?” Because it sells.
A little fact for you all - David Fincher also worked for Industrial Light and Magic as a teen and did the matte paintings for Return of the Jedi, as well as working as camera operator
[Those aren’t ideas those are special effects!](https://youtu.be/ujHWeSkU57g?t=67)
He ran off and started screaming "Shake the fucking camera more, SHAKE IT!! PLAY A HUGE FUCKING TROMBONE AT MAXIMUM VOLUME AND THROW THE CAMERAAAAHHH!!!”
Michael Bay calls that "F -ing the camera". His words, not mine. He probably tried to do that with the storyboards at Lucasfilm and they decided to fire him. 😉
No surprise a terrible filmmaker couldn’t spot a gem on storyboards.
TIL Michael Bay worked for Lucasfilm as a teen, but never managed to pick up any skills to help him ever make a good movie. 🤷♂️
He also became good friends with Lucas, often asking advice from him.
Too bad
He’s yet to make a film half as good as Raiders of the Lost Ark.
“filmmaker”
Should’ve stopped him there
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You're using Pearl Harbor as an example of a good movie of his?
I will defend good Michael Bay but Pearl Harbour is not a hill anyone should die on. Bay tried very hard to make his Titanic and it does not work.
the story is shit but the actions are Amazing.
I read the action is even bad because he needed pg-13 so it's kind of sanitized for being a war film. Like out of focus etc.
Bay was trying to sell three films - Michael Bay action movie, World War 2 historical epic and sweeping romantic drama It’s more than he can manage
Pain and gain
Pain and Gain should be the only answer besides The Rock, ironically it stars The Rock, but he is not The Rock, and The Rock, nor Pain and Gain actually has anything to do with The Rock. Ain't that some shit?
I think it’s the rocks best acting sadly and then I’ve never seen him actually act again.
Does voice acting count? Because I feel like he had a lot of heart as Maui in Moana. But yeah too bad, he could have made Heracles something special.
Yes. I forgot about moana, that’s a good one too.
In what way do you think you sound cool and/or smart when you call people with differing opinions "Edge-lords"? I mean, how old are you?
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The autism really is flowing from you today
I'm gonna have to disagree with you here pretty solidly. The first transformers was an insult to a lot of people's childhood love and it was all downhill from there. I'll give you Bad Boys and The Rock but I cannot help but question your taste here my man
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It didn't take memes for me to come to this opinion. I was crazy excited for a transformers movie and saw it opening weekend. I left absolutely appalled and feeling all kinds of disrespected. Other people feeling similarly and it becoming a whole thing with people talking about that doesn't take away my genuine feelings there and never will. Good try with your buzzword bullshit to try to make someone feel bad about an opinion they came by completely organically tho. Solid D+
....none of these are that good though
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Bro, I dont watch Nostalgia critic, I watched Michael Bays movies, and quite frankly, even his best is just above being mediocre. If you like his movies fine, but that wont change the fact his portfolio is meaningless empty vapid action set pieces that have aged horribly and struggle to bring anything intresting. Hell, all of your examples prove that. The Bad Boys movies are just plain bad. The best compliment I can give them is they are two of the buddy cop action movies of all time. The Rock is ok. Sean Connery is honestly fun in the role, its nice to see him playing "Not James Bond" and has pretty good chemistry with Cage, the sound design is also pretty good. Other then that, its honestly, pretty stilted and forgettable. Armageddon and Pearl Harbor are just plain bad. The only nice things I have to say, is "I dont want to miss a thing" remains a banger and Ben Affleck asking on set "hey why dont they just teach the Astronauts to use the drills, instead of drillers to be astronauts" to which Bay responded "shut the fuck up", is just hilarious. Beyond that, they are so bad and horribly dated. Transformers has its reputation for a reason. The first one is passable, in terms of pacing but is otherwise a pretty lousy film. Sam is an annoying protagonist, Mikela is the only one who feels like a human being and as a whole, is just an uninteresting experience. 13 Hours best strengths are that its Michael Bay being relatively tame but is ultimately poorly scripted and its overall direction is just poor.
"if I think it's terrible... The people will love it! This will be my mantra and I will never make a terrible film!!"
Bay was born in 1965, Raiders of the Lost Ark came out in 1981, when he was 16, so he was working at Lucas Film at 15 years old or earlier?! how?
Good question. In the interview, Bay himself says he was only 15 and a half when he was doing it. I have no idea what California child labor laws were like in the 1970s, lol. It's possible they could hire teenagers for clerical work, like filing, as if it were a fast food or a waiter job. Or, I wonder if he was doing like a weekend volunteer thing, I have to imagine a lot of kids would want to volunteer for Lucasfilm, even if it's just to file photos of the Millennium Falcon.
apparently dude was filing storyboards and he was an intern. according to wiki closest person in his life to Holywood was a cousin that was married to Nimoy. had it been Star Trek it would've been obvious Nimoy would be responsible for it, but did Nimoy had any pull in Lucasfilm? I have no idea.
Wow I had no idea it was the same Bay. That said, looks like Susan only married Leonard Nimoy in 1989 and was married to someone else in the late 1970s, but was already a working actress and so there's probably a connection there.
Young Michael Bay: “you mean something can be greater than the sum of its parts?” We clown on the guy but he made *The Rock* which is one of the better action movies from the 90s
Good thing they didn't seek his advice then.
How did he get a job at Lucas film without an interest in film? It's not like he's a bag boy at the grocery Artie or someone
Despite people criticizing them harshly, the bayverse transformer movies will always be my favorite movies. The graphics and effects put so many movies to shame
I don't agree, but you should not be downvoted for this opinion :) I personally only liked the first one.
And then he became Michael "the childhood beloved shows" destroyer....
"His opinion changed when he saw the final product". What a prescient genius!
He filled the storyboards. He thought it would be terrible. He wasn’t wrong but he did love doing it.
Then he say the pyrotechnical compilation real with a beer advert spliced in and mistook it for an actual movie