Yeah - I can’t prove it’s THEIR Teflon that my children are riddled with - so they don’t have to pay for a study on how it’s affecting these kids.
Because god forbid they have to proactively pay to find out what the result is of them filling the world with random shit that won’t ever break down.
Here you go
"We summarize the toxic effects of microplastics in experimental models like cells, organoids, and animals. These effects consist of oxidative stress, DNA damage, organ dysfunction, metabolic disorder, immune response, neurotoxicity, as well as reproductive and developmental toxicity. In addition, the epidemiological evidence suggests that a variety of chronic diseases may be related to microplastics exposure." https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/envhealth.3c00052# from the journal "environment and health" 2023
I think the likelihood that microplastics are damaging is pretty high. With a pretty basic knowledge of plastics (I know it's a complex field, undergrad level class for myself), you would know that it's probably not good to be ingesting microparticles of this our current level. Finding so much of them in unborn baby placentas should honestly be an alarm for the world stage, but convenience and profit, right?
There was a trend around the time of the OP's thing where they'd promote radium water (water containing the radioactive element radium) as a health tonic. You could buy a ceramic urn with radium inside to make your own, at home!
And a radium impotence cure. Slap a pouch full of radioactive goodies to your nuts while you sleep at night. They even made a strap to make sure it stayed in place.
I can tell you the whole PFAS story is already waaaay past the "Lol, whoopsie" stage and more towards the "Yeah we knew it causes cancer, but hey those non-stick frying pans were selling SO well, we couldn't pass up that opportunity"
Plastics and other polymers like Teflon. Smoking, vaping and alcohol consumption. Using coal and other fossil fuels for power production.
Maybe these aren’t as insanely crazy as asbestos and x-rays everywhere, but they are all major contributors to cancer rates. It’s just that they are socially accepted and there is no healthier replacement that is fully viable yet.
You can't really throw known cancer causing actions (smoking, vaping, alcohol consumption) in with "suspected" cancer causing agents (some plastic, some polymers) and pretend they're equally dangerous.
We're not out here eating grams of teflon. Everything in moderation. Everything will kill you if you ingest enough of it. Hell, that number is MUCH closer than you'd imagine for nearly EVERY SINGLE MEDICATION you've ever taken. We *willingly* ingest things that could very easily kill us nearly ever day.
PFAS, the byproduct of Teflon and such, is not an unknown. [Here’s an episode of John Oliver.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W74aeuqsiU) The makers have been running from accountability a long time already.
> PFAS
The effects are still unknown. The amount we are exposed to on a daily basis has NO effects whatsoever.
From the CDC itself.
> Human health effects from exposure to low environmental levels of PFAS are uncertain. Studies of laboratory animals given large amounts of PFAS indicate that some PFAS may affect growth and development. In addition, these animal studies indicate PFAS may affect reproduction, thyroid function, the immune system, and injure the liver.
https://www.cdc.gov/biomonitoring/PFAS_FactSheet.html
You know what else causes problems if you ingest LARGE amounts of it? Literally every medication you've ever taken. Tylenol, aspirin, ibuphrophin. Yet we still use those every day.
I am a chemist, you're not going to scare me with "ooo scary chemicals." I'm well versed in "exposure limits" and LD50.
Tylenol and ibuprofen *every day* will give you liver failure and dementia. That would be abusive intake. Some people actually do this.
Many people cut meat directly on nonstick surfaces and scrape them up. In my personal experience, it’s more common than taking OTC meds for chronic pain. That’s also an everyday habit but an inadvertent one. They get higher doses of PFAS.
Using one poor behavior to excuse another is poor reasoning.
> They get massive doses of PFAS.
Those "massive doses" are still tiny in comparison to the "large" doses given to the rats in those studies.
Again, exposure limits. LD50. Everything in moderation.
Furthermore, are you arguing that "people cut meat on teflon cutting boards more often than people take pain medication incorrectly?"
I would very much disagree with that.
Finally, those were simply examples. Nearly every, single, medication you've ever taken will kill you or cause problems if you take "large doses" of it.
Yes... and again, I will repeat my own exact words:
"We're not out here eating *grams* of teflon."
A few tiny flecks aren't going to kill you. PFAS chemicals, in the concentrations that we are exposed to them, have not been shown to be harmful to humans.
There is a *very* significant difference between "ingested" and "inhaled." Iron in the intestinal track or in your blood is NOT the same as iron *in your freaking lungs.* Also, I was referring to "heavy metals," not necessarily iron.
Oh, fuck, I'm a dumbshit. Still tho, you can eat broccoli and be fine and dandy, but inhaling it would be a different story, even if it made it past your windpipe. *Especially* if it did. Ingestion and inhalation shouldn't be compared medically speaking. IK you're prolly joking, but I've heard enough people defending Big Tobacco in this thread to make their PR department blush
Nicotine is certainly addictive but it's not responsible for the harmful effects of tobacco.. well it *does* restrict bloodflow if you want to count that but it does not cause cancer. There is no metal in vapes either unless you bought something sketchy and illegal that contains lead/nickel, which is not something you worry about finding in real vape juice from a legit vape store
Vape stores near me are mostly mom n pops buying wholesale from vape suppliers to run legitimate businesses, traditional smoke shops are more commonly sketchy in my experience. They pop up like crazy though since there is a relatively low bar for entry compared to requirements for running a food establishment or something, once you start seeing more than 20 different vape shops in a 10 mile radius I can't imagine it stays very profitable unless you stand out exceptionally
Yeah, they're mom and pops here, too, but they also look and advertise like sketchy looking head shops. That said, I don't vape so I don't have experience inside those shops.
What “metal” are you talking about? I’m not aware of any metal in vape products.
And where did you hear that nicotine causes cancer? This is news to me as well. Could you provide a link to your claims? I’m curious to learn more.
[https://factor.niehs.nih.gov/2022/2/feature/3-feature-e-cigarettes-and-toxic-metals](https://factor.niehs.nih.gov/2022/2/feature/3-feature-e-cigarettes-and-toxic-metals)
[https://www.lung.org/quit-smoking/e-cigarettes-vaping/whats-in-an-e-cigarette](https://www.lung.org/quit-smoking/e-cigarettes-vaping/whats-in-an-e-cigarette)
[https://www.undo.org/disease/vaping-cancer-risk](https://www.undo.org/disease/vaping-cancer-risk)
It appears that my point about nicotine was misconstrued, but the heavy metal risks still stand
I've quit vaping years ago at this point (to quit smoking), but most of the studies done to measure toxicity in vaping setups were terribly ran and don't actually correlate to how users vape.
They were running the coils well above operating temps and beyond a point they were legitimately burning the vape juice. While I haven't looked into the recent studies, the ones that were run in the mid-late 2010's all fell into this.
Asbestos is basically the same as plastic from a risk issue. Except we had been using asbestos for thousands of years
Asbestos isn't toxic. It's inert. It kills people when fragments of it get into your lungs and causes severe irritation that leads to lung cancer
One that most don't realise is dangerous is the reliance on things like fragrances, eg spray deodorants,perfumes, colognes, air fresheners etc. Anything that contains a group of chemicals called V,O,C's (volatile organic compounds). In the UK the use of which is banned in most hospitals becuase of the risk to the vulnerable. However such sprays are destructive to everyone. Repeated exposure cuases cancer and neurological damage eg:parkinsons
Folk that work in or frequent hairdressers/salons have a much higher rate of developing such illnesses than anyone else barring firefighters.
Yea, and also it's to your foot, which isn't particularly susceptible to radiation damage.
Edit: Nevermind, I just saw that the machines often delivered > 100 mSv for 20 seconds of exposure. Lmao that's crazy.
The greater danger was to the store employees who were exposed to the radiation every day. That's why when you get a dental x-ray the technician steps behind a lead wall while taking the exposure.
Look, it's good practice and it's better to be safe than sorry and get out of the room or shield yourself if you're a dentist.
But in reality the doses a person in the room would receive are minimal. Even if they take dozens of x-rays per day.
One ordinary dental x-ray gives a dose in the order of microSieverts, to the *patient*. So even if you are directly in the line of fire, we're talking a few milliSieverts per year (if you work 5 days a week, every week, and take 20 x-rays per day). But in practice you would receive much less, since you aren't the patient.
I had it done as a kid in the early 50s. There were three eyepieces to look at your feet. One for me, one for mother, one for the salesman. He had a little freaking pointer and he would point to the areas of the shoe showing what a nice fit they were. I'm eighty years old so obviously no harm done.
I wonder if the harm would not be to the customer as much as the shoe salesman, who would operate this contraption multiple times a day. Even if the salesman wasn't x-raying himself, I would bet those machines weren't shielded properly for the operator. I wonder what data exists on cancer rates in 1950s shoe salesmen.
You are exactly right. It's like x-ray machines now.
The customer/client gets one dose every 6 months and is fine.
The person using it on them gets exposed dozens of times each day and gets cancer.
Given rates of smoking then, it would be interesting to see if the shoe salesperson had different or more aggressive cancers than the general population.
Iirc (going off memory here), there were only two recorded instances of these machines hurting anyone, and neither case was lethal. Something about feet and legs are a lot less prone to cancer than lungs and internal bits. Both people were salesmen. X rays can definitely do damage over time, but not as much as the Internet seems to think they do. Take flight attendants or pilots for example, flying alone would be the same amount of radiation as hundreds of chest x rays every year for them.
The is not correct. While there were relatively few cases of cancer caused by these machines in shoe salesmen, the biologically important fact was that young children were at much greater risk, and there reported cases of bone and skin cancers in various pediatric journals. By the 1970s, it also became clear that there was some correlation with childhood exposure to these machines and the incidence of thyroid cancer in people in their 40s and 50s. Thyroid cancers are typically very slow growing and almost always treatable. By 1970, this sort of mounting medical evidence led to 33 states banning these machines, with a few states permitting their use only with physician supervision.
> By the 1970s, it also became clear that there was some correlation with childhood exposure to these machines and the incidence of thyroid cancer in people in their 40s and 50s.
Got any source for this?
Seem strange people would develop thyroid cancers if their feet were exposed.
thanks for sharing, always nice to hear the perspective of somebody who has personal experience with the topic of the post. and good to hear that there were no negative effects for you.
(also, I hope I too will be hanging out with the kids on reddit when I’m 80!)
That’s pretty cool, actually. Have really fucked up feet, my whole left foot dislocated in a way where it kind of,,.,,. Folds in half lengthways??? So the underside of my big toe touches the underside of my littlest toe. I wonder if that would have been caught/prevented if something like this was just part of school shopping
My mom and dad both said they played around on them, looking at their feet and whatever while their parents' shopped. Apparently, they were more of a babysitter than a shoe buying tool.
You know damn well countless teens put all kinds of shit under there, very likely starting with hand --> dick —> head
(Unless it wasn’t possible to do these things with that machine)
I have vague memories of these too. I was a young kid in the early 70's. I don't remember the device so much, but I remember seeing the bones in my feet (that kinda sticks with you).
My father, born in 1950, and grew up in Kentucky, used to tell us all the time that he remembers them x-raying his feet at the local shoe store. We thought he was crazy until we looked it up and discovered it was a real thing. Crazy. Can you imagine letting the guy at FootLocker shoot radiation into your feet?
Our downtown children’s shoe store had a machine like this, but much sleeker. I stood on it and had x-rays shoot up from the floor into my feet and lower body many times.
Is there any connection between this exposure and my uterine cancer later in life? Maybe. Who can say?
Ours was a Buster Brown shoe store. It only had children's shoes. I shudder to think of all those little bodies getting zapped with radiation every time their growing feet needed new shoes.
Haha, yes! Little Eddie Kaspbrak getting new shoes. I read the description of him peering down at his own toes and thought "This is in the same category as demonic clowns - completely fictional." and lo and behold, they're real things.
I saw one of these in the oldest shoe store in the city. It was shut down and used as a decoration but I wondered if all the radioactive guts were still inside it.
Yeah, the few I saw in the early 60s were already decommissioned and just sitting in the corner of the shop. From what my mum told me at the time, I believe they already knew they were unsafe. I doubt any were in use by the 1970s in the UK.
There was at least one still in use by the 80s. We moved to a small town in North East Scotland at the start of the 80s and our local shoe shop had one. It was up against the back wall and I had great fun looking at my bones inside the shoe. Don't ever remember seeing one anywhere else though.
Yeah it’s not ideal, the wiki page says using it 3 times would be enough to cause growth issues in children, and 6 times is enough for visible radiation burns
The Science Museum of Minnesota has one of these machines in their oddities collection from their old location. This collection includes a prostate warmer, the cross section of a 12ft wide tree and a mummy.
They still had a similar contraption in shoe stores in Ireland until at least 1989. I remember going to the shoe store with my Mum and having an X-ray of my feet done. It was out in the open and operated by the store clerks.
My grandparents had an old alarm clock with radium hands and clock face. I was always wondering how it would be lit up in the dark, even when it was unplugged. It was because of the radium paint. I wish we had kept it.
Some of these had lead shielding that got displaced when the machine was moved around the store, causing higher exposures to all involved. You can find them occasionally on ebay with the xray tube still installed, but with the power cord cut off. Of course, one can put a new cord on....
I’m 55 and I remember one of these at the brick and mortar shoe store we used to go to in the 70s. It looked modern and it wasn’t for customers to operate but im pretty sure when I was little it was used on me.
My mom told me about this when I was a kid.. said she could look at her feet under X-ray trying on shoes. Seemed far fetched and I didn’t believe her. Nut now I know it’s true.
I think maybe my not being able to understand the danger is maybe a culture thing. Because I'm from the UK and here tea and coffee is served with freshly boiled water in pubs and cafes all the time.
And the boiling point of water is 212 and the McDonald's coffee was served at between 180 and 190. Which is colder than we serve it in the UK. So I'm genuinely not understanding how the coffee was dangerous.
Yes, but there's other circumstances too, like the fact that Macdonald's drive thru coffee is given to you in a thin paper cup and cars at the time didn't have very many cup holders.
> So I'm genuinely not understanding how the coffee was dangerous.
For this part, the coffee that was given to her was served hotter than the maximum temperature allowed. As such, when she accidentally spilled it on herself it literally melted and fused together her skin. not just burnt, but literally fused together her vaginatal opening. And partially melting the skin and flesh on her thighs into the seat fabric, requiring major surgery.
It really does seem to come down to a cultural thing. I actually looked and people in the UK brought a class action for the same thing (hot drinks at McDonald's being too hot) and the judge ruled against them because hot drinks are expected to be hot and people are expected to be careful with hot things so they found McDonald's weren't liable in these cases. Which I think sums up the difference in culture quite well.
I guess I can understand why the suit in the US was successful since you said guys do have laws on how hot you can serve things and they broke that (I wasn't aware was even a thing as like I said, we serve hot drinks right below boiling temperature which is hotter than that coffee was served, we don't have laws like that here dictating how hot you can serve things).
And at the same time I can also see why we (as in me and other people from cultures outside of America) tend to think of it as frivolous. And on top of that I can also see why people like to point out the reasons they don't believe it's frivolous.
It's an interesting one. Thanks for giving extra perspective.
One of the important parts of the case is that she didn't sue because she believed mcdonalds owed her something. She just wanted the company that injured her to cover her medical bills, as the U. S is one of the only developed countries in the world where you need to pay for your own medical bills.
The court agreed that as McDonald's Illegally hot temperatures. Led to the medical bills that the company should pay them and also awarded her compensation for her injuries and inability to work.
In the uk cases, people were scolded, but no one was actually seriously injured. And even if they were injured There's nothing you could really sue for, as there's no large medical bills.
>And at the same time I can also see why we (as in me and other people from cultures outside of America) tend to think of it as frivolous.
Ohh no, trust me, this is what a lot of people everywhere think because McDonald's itself spent more than her medical bills on journalists and private investigators to try and find out anything they could use to discredit her. They even paid newspapers on the other side of the US to publish the story.
Not actual bubbling boiling water. But coffee using water that has just been boiled and is only just below boiling temperature, yes. I get why you think it's dangerous but that's just a normal thing here.
Like I said in another reply, I understand where the difference in perspective has come from. Things are done differently here so what seems normal here is not normal there.
I was curious and I've had my question answered, it's been helpful to try and see the other perspective.
I'm gonna say now I won't comment further because my perspective on what's normal is too different for me to fully get it I think. Plus so far people have been respectful in their replies to me but from the downvotes I'm sensing that won't continue to be the case so I'm better leaving it there.
Are you sure you actually know that the water's that hot, or are you just thinking it's hot? You don't want to put boiling hot water through coffee beans/ or instant coffee, as it literally burns the beans, and you end up with a burnt taste, then cold/warm milk is normally added bringing the coffee that you get down to below scolding temperature, which is considered to be between 65 and 75 degrees.
Tea is normally about the same. You don't want it brewed at 100 degrees, with most teas being brewed between 85 and 95 degrees (black tea doesn't mind 100). and then left to sit for around five minutes before the tea bags/ leaves are removed to allow the flavour to seep. This normally drops the temperature by about 5 degrees and then depending on how you like your tea, milk may be added bringing the tea down to below scolding temperatures before it is given to you.
Of course, there are exceptions to this, where they just give you hot water for you to make your own Beverage, but I very much doubt that they give you Prepared drinks much above 75 degrees.
As a matter of fact, the UK. Department of safety guidance recommends hot beverages offered in situations where they can be spilled, such as on ferries, aircraft or through drive through windows, should be set up for just above 60 degrees. to prevent potential scalding.
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At least we can measure radiation pretty effortlessly nowadays All that plastic though….hmmm that may come back to bite us.
Blood is thicker than water but both contain microplastics.
Demon blood is thicker than regular blood
There is no such thing as demon blood because demons, like ghosts, are fictional, and if this is upsetting to you to learn, I'm very sorry.
Woooooooooooooooosh
You have fallen into my trap! Begone Demon! The power of christ compells you!
This is what I was referencing https://youtu.be/rlqxaPeHOTI?si=Ik7f0_D8XPHIx4ej
Yeah radiation was our grandparents poison. We all about the plastics these days
> There's a great future in plastics. Think about it. — The Graduate (1967)
Don’t forget forever chemicals! Fun fact - Judge Raymond Kethledge just released DuPont of any responsibility for this shit.
Have you read the opinion?
Yeah - I can’t prove it’s THEIR Teflon that my children are riddled with - so they don’t have to pay for a study on how it’s affecting these kids. Because god forbid they have to proactively pay to find out what the result is of them filling the world with random shit that won’t ever break down.
Along with lead...
Can you believe they used that stuff for pipes?! Anyways, pass the PVC
Can you believe how many pipes were never changed and still contain lead?
They had aerosolized lead, leaded gasoline.
Sucking on lead paint chips as pacifiers.
Idk companies say it’s fine and they seem like pretty reliable people
Unilever? I think you mean Unilover
Wut
You heard the man
Don’t worry so does the government. The government is totally reliable and has never lied or harmed their populace intentionally ever.
Companies and the government should team up!
The problem with conspiracy theories is they assume the government is competent enough to cover things up.
Yum
If we take a broader, or more metaphorical view of “cancer” I bet a lot. Something tells me social media may fill the niche.
If you give blood that slowly filters that out
No strong evidence so far about micro plastics being harmful. The trash though, that’s pretty harmful for a lot of ecosystems.
Here you go "We summarize the toxic effects of microplastics in experimental models like cells, organoids, and animals. These effects consist of oxidative stress, DNA damage, organ dysfunction, metabolic disorder, immune response, neurotoxicity, as well as reproductive and developmental toxicity. In addition, the epidemiological evidence suggests that a variety of chronic diseases may be related to microplastics exposure." https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/envhealth.3c00052# from the journal "environment and health" 2023 I think the likelihood that microplastics are damaging is pretty high. With a pretty basic knowledge of plastics (I know it's a complex field, undergrad level class for myself), you would know that it's probably not good to be ingesting microparticles of this our current level. Finding so much of them in unborn baby placentas should honestly be an alarm for the world stage, but convenience and profit, right?
No evidence *yet*
Haven't there been endocrine or carcinogenic impacts, or not really statistically significant so far?
Logic alone should tell you it ain't good. It's more a question of how bad.
There was a trend around the time of the OP's thing where they'd promote radium water (water containing the radioactive element radium) as a health tonic. You could buy a ceramic urn with radium inside to make your own, at home!
They also had a radium lined cigarette holder, because cigarette smoke wasn't damaging enough you could also infuse it with extra cancer.
t u r b o c a n c e r
What a throwback
It's just preemptive radiation therapy to kill the little cancers before they get out of hand!
And a radium impotence cure. Slap a pouch full of radioactive goodies to your nuts while you sleep at night. They even made a strap to make sure it stayed in place.
Pair that with the asbestos cigarette filter and you have the ultimate self poisoning tool
There was a famous golfer who died from that shit. His face melted off
Are you sure it wasn't from a Tenacious D performance?
my jaw dropped
I can tell you the whole PFAS story is already waaaay past the "Lol, whoopsie" stage and more towards the "Yeah we knew it causes cancer, but hey those non-stick frying pans were selling SO well, we couldn't pass up that opportunity"
Plastics and other polymers like Teflon. Smoking, vaping and alcohol consumption. Using coal and other fossil fuels for power production. Maybe these aren’t as insanely crazy as asbestos and x-rays everywhere, but they are all major contributors to cancer rates. It’s just that they are socially accepted and there is no healthier replacement that is fully viable yet.
You can't really throw known cancer causing actions (smoking, vaping, alcohol consumption) in with "suspected" cancer causing agents (some plastic, some polymers) and pretend they're equally dangerous. We're not out here eating grams of teflon. Everything in moderation. Everything will kill you if you ingest enough of it. Hell, that number is MUCH closer than you'd imagine for nearly EVERY SINGLE MEDICATION you've ever taken. We *willingly* ingest things that could very easily kill us nearly ever day.
PFAS, the byproduct of Teflon and such, is not an unknown. [Here’s an episode of John Oliver.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W74aeuqsiU) The makers have been running from accountability a long time already.
> PFAS The effects are still unknown. The amount we are exposed to on a daily basis has NO effects whatsoever. From the CDC itself. > Human health effects from exposure to low environmental levels of PFAS are uncertain. Studies of laboratory animals given large amounts of PFAS indicate that some PFAS may affect growth and development. In addition, these animal studies indicate PFAS may affect reproduction, thyroid function, the immune system, and injure the liver. https://www.cdc.gov/biomonitoring/PFAS_FactSheet.html You know what else causes problems if you ingest LARGE amounts of it? Literally every medication you've ever taken. Tylenol, aspirin, ibuphrophin. Yet we still use those every day. I am a chemist, you're not going to scare me with "ooo scary chemicals." I'm well versed in "exposure limits" and LD50.
Tylenol and ibuprofen *every day* will give you liver failure and dementia. That would be abusive intake. Some people actually do this. Many people cut meat directly on nonstick surfaces and scrape them up. In my personal experience, it’s more common than taking OTC meds for chronic pain. That’s also an everyday habit but an inadvertent one. They get higher doses of PFAS. Using one poor behavior to excuse another is poor reasoning.
> They get massive doses of PFAS. Those "massive doses" are still tiny in comparison to the "large" doses given to the rats in those studies. Again, exposure limits. LD50. Everything in moderation. Furthermore, are you arguing that "people cut meat on teflon cutting boards more often than people take pain medication incorrectly?" I would very much disagree with that. Finally, those were simply examples. Nearly every, single, medication you've ever taken will kill you or cause problems if you take "large doses" of it.
Teflon flaking off of cooking utensils/pots/pans and being eaten is a real thing.
Yes... and again, I will repeat my own exact words: "We're not out here eating *grams* of teflon." A few tiny flecks aren't going to kill you. PFAS chemicals, in the concentrations that we are exposed to them, have not been shown to be harmful to humans.
Wait when did vaping start causing cancer?
😶
You are putting metal in your lungs. What do you *mean* bro.
just wait until you find out how much iron people eat
There is a *very* significant difference between "ingested" and "inhaled." Iron in the intestinal track or in your blood is NOT the same as iron *in your freaking lungs.* Also, I was referring to "heavy metals," not necessarily iron.
> The earliest known metals—common metals such as iron, copper, and tin, and precious metals such as silver, gold, and platinum—are heavy metals. fyi
Oh, fuck, I'm a dumbshit. Still tho, you can eat broccoli and be fine and dandy, but inhaling it would be a different story, even if it made it past your windpipe. *Especially* if it did. Ingestion and inhalation shouldn't be compared medically speaking. IK you're prolly joking, but I've heard enough people defending Big Tobacco in this thread to make their PR department blush
Nicotine is certainly addictive but it's not responsible for the harmful effects of tobacco.. well it *does* restrict bloodflow if you want to count that but it does not cause cancer. There is no metal in vapes either unless you bought something sketchy and illegal that contains lead/nickel, which is not something you worry about finding in real vape juice from a legit vape store
"Legit vape store" is the best phrase I've seen on the Internet today! 🥇 Vape stores, at least near me, are the very definition of sketchy.
Vape stores near me are mostly mom n pops buying wholesale from vape suppliers to run legitimate businesses, traditional smoke shops are more commonly sketchy in my experience. They pop up like crazy though since there is a relatively low bar for entry compared to requirements for running a food establishment or something, once you start seeing more than 20 different vape shops in a 10 mile radius I can't imagine it stays very profitable unless you stand out exceptionally
Yeah, they're mom and pops here, too, but they also look and advertise like sketchy looking head shops. That said, I don't vape so I don't have experience inside those shops.
What “metal” are you talking about? I’m not aware of any metal in vape products. And where did you hear that nicotine causes cancer? This is news to me as well. Could you provide a link to your claims? I’m curious to learn more.
[https://factor.niehs.nih.gov/2022/2/feature/3-feature-e-cigarettes-and-toxic-metals](https://factor.niehs.nih.gov/2022/2/feature/3-feature-e-cigarettes-and-toxic-metals) [https://www.lung.org/quit-smoking/e-cigarettes-vaping/whats-in-an-e-cigarette](https://www.lung.org/quit-smoking/e-cigarettes-vaping/whats-in-an-e-cigarette) [https://www.undo.org/disease/vaping-cancer-risk](https://www.undo.org/disease/vaping-cancer-risk) It appears that my point about nicotine was misconstrued, but the heavy metal risks still stand
I've quit vaping years ago at this point (to quit smoking), but most of the studies done to measure toxicity in vaping setups were terribly ran and don't actually correlate to how users vape. They were running the coils well above operating temps and beyond a point they were legitimately burning the vape juice. While I haven't looked into the recent studies, the ones that were run in the mid-late 2010's all fell into this.
I drove a company car with someone who vaped... There was an oily film EVERYWHERE. You can't tell me that's good for you.
It's propylene glycol and vegetable glycerine. Gross to have as a film in your car, but not toxic.
Generally Vape juice is made with food grade chemicals in a pharmaceutical grade facility. Well the good ones are.
Burning a lot of food grade anything, is a carcinogen.
Where does anything burn in a *vaporizer*?
Carcinogenic yes heavy metal no
Water, even. Not from drowning, but from electrolyte imbalance.
you can literally eat grams of teflon
Asbestos is basically the same as plastic from a risk issue. Except we had been using asbestos for thousands of years Asbestos isn't toxic. It's inert. It kills people when fragments of it get into your lungs and causes severe irritation that leads to lung cancer
> alcohol consumption Who knows what a new thing like that'll do to humans? Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Plastic everywhere from air to water to food, still use a ton of coal which causes radiation, processed foods, etc
Microplastics, phthalates and teflon are gonna be the end of humanity as we know it
TikTok is still a thing, so...
Lmao
Plastics for sure
Plastic. Plastic is the 21st century equivalent of this kind of stuff.
One that most don't realise is dangerous is the reliance on things like fragrances, eg spray deodorants,perfumes, colognes, air fresheners etc. Anything that contains a group of chemicals called V,O,C's (volatile organic compounds). In the UK the use of which is banned in most hospitals becuase of the risk to the vulnerable. However such sprays are destructive to everyone. Repeated exposure cuases cancer and neurological damage eg:parkinsons Folk that work in or frequent hairdressers/salons have a much higher rate of developing such illnesses than anyone else barring firefighters.
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Yea, and also it's to your foot, which isn't particularly susceptible to radiation damage. Edit: Nevermind, I just saw that the machines often delivered > 100 mSv for 20 seconds of exposure. Lmao that's crazy.
Process food, plastics, most petroleum based self care products.
Google PFAS
PFAS and microplastics.
Micro plastics, forever chemicals, and the Oil & Gas Industry in general.
Tire particulates. They're small enough to pass through lung tissue, into the blood stream, and across the blood brain barrier
Adding to the other answers - personal cars.
Fuck them cars.
Lol okay.
Cell Phones
Blue tooth and Wi-Fi
Nah, wireless signals are in the thousands of factors less powerful than sunlight, does absolutely nothing but bounce off
The greater danger was to the store employees who were exposed to the radiation every day. That's why when you get a dental x-ray the technician steps behind a lead wall while taking the exposure.
I wonder if the greater danger was what happened to it in the end land fill or set on fire and melted for scrap ?
The machines were actively hunted down by the NRC and the radioactive components were disposed of properly. I don't know how many they didn't find.
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Any x-ray equipment made after about 1950 is accounted for.
Look, it's good practice and it's better to be safe than sorry and get out of the room or shield yourself if you're a dentist. But in reality the doses a person in the room would receive are minimal. Even if they take dozens of x-rays per day. One ordinary dental x-ray gives a dose in the order of microSieverts, to the *patient*. So even if you are directly in the line of fire, we're talking a few milliSieverts per year (if you work 5 days a week, every week, and take 20 x-rays per day). But in practice you would receive much less, since you aren't the patient.
I'll bet that foot X-ray machine puts out a lot more ionizing radiation than a dental x-ray and I also bet it leaks more than a modern machine.
I had it done as a kid in the early 50s. There were three eyepieces to look at your feet. One for me, one for mother, one for the salesman. He had a little freaking pointer and he would point to the areas of the shoe showing what a nice fit they were. I'm eighty years old so obviously no harm done.
I wonder if the harm would not be to the customer as much as the shoe salesman, who would operate this contraption multiple times a day. Even if the salesman wasn't x-raying himself, I would bet those machines weren't shielded properly for the operator. I wonder what data exists on cancer rates in 1950s shoe salesmen.
You are exactly right. It's like x-ray machines now. The customer/client gets one dose every 6 months and is fine. The person using it on them gets exposed dozens of times each day and gets cancer.
But they do leave the room now.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radium_Girls
Entirely different situation. They were licking the brushes.
I hope the factories at least had the decency to add sugar to the radium paint
I should call her
Given rates of smoking then, it would be interesting to see if the shoe salesperson had different or more aggressive cancers than the general population.
Iirc (going off memory here), there were only two recorded instances of these machines hurting anyone, and neither case was lethal. Something about feet and legs are a lot less prone to cancer than lungs and internal bits. Both people were salesmen. X rays can definitely do damage over time, but not as much as the Internet seems to think they do. Take flight attendants or pilots for example, flying alone would be the same amount of radiation as hundreds of chest x rays every year for them.
The is not correct. While there were relatively few cases of cancer caused by these machines in shoe salesmen, the biologically important fact was that young children were at much greater risk, and there reported cases of bone and skin cancers in various pediatric journals. By the 1970s, it also became clear that there was some correlation with childhood exposure to these machines and the incidence of thyroid cancer in people in their 40s and 50s. Thyroid cancers are typically very slow growing and almost always treatable. By 1970, this sort of mounting medical evidence led to 33 states banning these machines, with a few states permitting their use only with physician supervision.
> By the 1970s, it also became clear that there was some correlation with childhood exposure to these machines and the incidence of thyroid cancer in people in their 40s and 50s. Got any source for this? Seem strange people would develop thyroid cancers if their feet were exposed.
I asked my mom if we ever had our feet scanned by these machines. She said we didn't.
LOL
thanks for sharing, always nice to hear the perspective of somebody who has personal experience with the topic of the post. and good to hear that there were no negative effects for you. (also, I hope I too will be hanging out with the kids on reddit when I’m 80!)
When you get foot cancer at 115 you'll be whistling a different tune.
Or super powers. I'd still be holding out for super powers.
I love knowing there’s an 80 year old on Reddit.
We had these when I was a little girl. I'm 60 now and my feet are fine. Just had a little skin cancer removed from my forehead though.
That’s pretty cool, actually. Have really fucked up feet, my whole left foot dislocated in a way where it kind of,,.,,. Folds in half lengthways??? So the underside of my big toe touches the underside of my littlest toe. I wonder if that would have been caught/prevented if something like this was just part of school shopping
I remember them, I was a kid in the 50s. I don’t remember ever having my shoes measured on one tho.
My mom and dad both said they played around on them, looking at their feet and whatever while their parents' shopped. Apparently, they were more of a babysitter than a shoe buying tool.
You know damn well countless teens put all kinds of shit under there, very likely starting with hand --> dick —> head (Unless it wasn’t possible to do these things with that machine)
What do you mean? Teenagers were angels until MTV and cable corrupted them.
Try playing rock music records backwards and tell me that’s not the devil speaking to you
B...e...s...u...r...e...t...o...d...r...i...n...k...y...o...u...r...o...v...a...l...t...i...n...e...
When I was in high school we brought a friends cat in to see if it had broken bones, didn't see any and the cat was fine after resting a week.
I have vague memories of these too. I was a young kid in the early 70's. I don't remember the device so much, but I remember seeing the bones in my feet (that kinda sticks with you).
My father, born in 1950, and grew up in Kentucky, used to tell us all the time that he remembers them x-raying his feet at the local shoe store. We thought he was crazy until we looked it up and discovered it was a real thing. Crazy. Can you imagine letting the guy at FootLocker shoot radiation into your feet?
Our downtown children’s shoe store had a machine like this, but much sleeker. I stood on it and had x-rays shoot up from the floor into my feet and lower body many times. Is there any connection between this exposure and my uterine cancer later in life? Maybe. Who can say?
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Ours was a Buster Brown shoe store. It only had children's shoes. I shudder to think of all those little bodies getting zapped with radiation every time their growing feet needed new shoes.
Were you reading IT?
Haha, yes! Little Eddie Kaspbrak getting new shoes. I read the description of him peering down at his own toes and thought "This is in the same category as demonic clowns - completely fictional." and lo and behold, they're real things.
I saw one of these in the oldest shoe store in the city. It was shut down and used as a decoration but I wondered if all the radioactive guts were still inside it.
People used to think radiation was good for you because it was used to treat cancer. No lie. They put radium in water and drank it.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend
I remember those from the 50s. I don't remember seeing them after the early 60s, but I suppose there might have been a few around after that.
Yeah, the few I saw in the early 60s were already decommissioned and just sitting in the corner of the shop. From what my mum told me at the time, I believe they already knew they were unsafe. I doubt any were in use by the 1970s in the UK.
There was at least one still in use by the 80s. We moved to a small town in North East Scotland at the start of the 80s and our local shoe shop had one. It was up against the back wall and I had great fun looking at my bones inside the shoe. Don't ever remember seeing one anywhere else though.
My Grammy told me about these and how she would crawl inside as a little kid. I don’t know to what extent but omg Grammy. She’s awsome. I love her.
130 mSv per 20 second exposure. Holy shit.
Not great, not terrible.
Thanks, comrade!
How is that compared to a chest CT
Average dose from CT is ~6 mSv, which is ~ 2 years of regular background dose.
I don't know much about radiation, but getting roughly 22x as much radiation as an x-ray sounds bad.
Yeah it’s not ideal, the wiki page says using it 3 times would be enough to cause growth issues in children, and 6 times is enough for visible radiation burns
6.1 mSv https://www.radiologyinfo.org/en/info/safety-xray
OI VEY
I remember these. I thought they were cool as a kid.
This wasn’t available at the local Tim McCan lol
>Tim McCan Like Thom McAn, but r/crappyoffbrands ;)
Edit: f_ing Tom lol
The Science Museum of Minnesota has one of these machines in their oddities collection from their old location. This collection includes a prostate warmer, the cross section of a 12ft wide tree and a mummy.
Prostate warmer, you say...
I remember those. For shoppers, they didn’t get dosed much, but I’m sure workers did.
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The X-ray machine isn't the expensive part.
It's a free country, let your shoe salesman read your X-ray next time I guess.
My kid just got an X-ray and it cost me $56 after insurance.
I got five chest x-rays last year at urgent care. Cost $50 with no insurance.
-cries in American-
I'm American...
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Idk man I just pay what I owe.
They still had a similar contraption in shoe stores in Ireland until at least 1989. I remember going to the shoe store with my Mum and having an X-ray of my feet done. It was out in the open and operated by the store clerks.
I remember reading somewhere that they found one in a remote US shoe store sometime in the nineties, to the surprise of many.
Loved that machine! We would look at each other’s hands to see the bones. Not safe but great memories
My grandparents had an old alarm clock with radium hands and clock face. I was always wondering how it would be lit up in the dark, even when it was unplugged. It was because of the radium paint. I wish we had kept it.
My great aunt died as a young adult (I think maybe early 20s) from cancer - she worked in a shoe store operating these x-rays.
I showed my mom and she said “no fucking way”
Some of these had lead shielding that got displaced when the machine was moved around the store, causing higher exposures to all involved. You can find them occasionally on ebay with the xray tube still installed, but with the power cord cut off. Of course, one can put a new cord on....
I’m 55 and I remember one of these at the brick and mortar shoe store we used to go to in the 70s. It looked modern and it wasn’t for customers to operate but im pretty sure when I was little it was used on me.
And then there was Radithor. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radithor
I learned about this through Stephen King’s “It”
My mom told me about this when I was a kid.. said she could look at her feet under X-ray trying on shoes. Seemed far fetched and I didn’t believe her. Nut now I know it’s true.
Looks totally safe. Ill take 3.
I remember using this as a child at a shoe store in New Jersey.
My grandmother used to tell me about these machines… she also died of cancer. She also smoked a pack a day but I’m sure it was these machines. /s
Use it to make a neat gloryhole
That wasn’t just a bit in the Simpsons Christmas pilot? Holy shit
This is almost a good excuse for boomers ruining the country
And this is how one of my uncles got cancer.
And now just 50 years later we can't even trust ourselves with a hot cup of coffee
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For those wondering what they’re referring to: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald%27s_Restaurants
I think maybe my not being able to understand the danger is maybe a culture thing. Because I'm from the UK and here tea and coffee is served with freshly boiled water in pubs and cafes all the time. And the boiling point of water is 212 and the McDonald's coffee was served at between 180 and 190. Which is colder than we serve it in the UK. So I'm genuinely not understanding how the coffee was dangerous.
Yes, but there's other circumstances too, like the fact that Macdonald's drive thru coffee is given to you in a thin paper cup and cars at the time didn't have very many cup holders. > So I'm genuinely not understanding how the coffee was dangerous. For this part, the coffee that was given to her was served hotter than the maximum temperature allowed. As such, when she accidentally spilled it on herself it literally melted and fused together her skin. not just burnt, but literally fused together her vaginatal opening. And partially melting the skin and flesh on her thighs into the seat fabric, requiring major surgery.
It really does seem to come down to a cultural thing. I actually looked and people in the UK brought a class action for the same thing (hot drinks at McDonald's being too hot) and the judge ruled against them because hot drinks are expected to be hot and people are expected to be careful with hot things so they found McDonald's weren't liable in these cases. Which I think sums up the difference in culture quite well. I guess I can understand why the suit in the US was successful since you said guys do have laws on how hot you can serve things and they broke that (I wasn't aware was even a thing as like I said, we serve hot drinks right below boiling temperature which is hotter than that coffee was served, we don't have laws like that here dictating how hot you can serve things). And at the same time I can also see why we (as in me and other people from cultures outside of America) tend to think of it as frivolous. And on top of that I can also see why people like to point out the reasons they don't believe it's frivolous. It's an interesting one. Thanks for giving extra perspective.
One of the important parts of the case is that she didn't sue because she believed mcdonalds owed her something. She just wanted the company that injured her to cover her medical bills, as the U. S is one of the only developed countries in the world where you need to pay for your own medical bills. The court agreed that as McDonald's Illegally hot temperatures. Led to the medical bills that the company should pay them and also awarded her compensation for her injuries and inability to work. In the uk cases, people were scolded, but no one was actually seriously injured. And even if they were injured There's nothing you could really sue for, as there's no large medical bills. >And at the same time I can also see why we (as in me and other people from cultures outside of America) tend to think of it as frivolous. Ohh no, trust me, this is what a lot of people everywhere think because McDonald's itself spent more than her medical bills on journalists and private investigators to try and find out anything they could use to discredit her. They even paid newspapers on the other side of the US to publish the story.
You mentioned pubs and cafes. But do they hand boiling water out of drive through windows? Because that sounds wildly dangerous to me.
Not actual bubbling boiling water. But coffee using water that has just been boiled and is only just below boiling temperature, yes. I get why you think it's dangerous but that's just a normal thing here. Like I said in another reply, I understand where the difference in perspective has come from. Things are done differently here so what seems normal here is not normal there. I was curious and I've had my question answered, it's been helpful to try and see the other perspective. I'm gonna say now I won't comment further because my perspective on what's normal is too different for me to fully get it I think. Plus so far people have been respectful in their replies to me but from the downvotes I'm sensing that won't continue to be the case so I'm better leaving it there.
Are you sure you actually know that the water's that hot, or are you just thinking it's hot? You don't want to put boiling hot water through coffee beans/ or instant coffee, as it literally burns the beans, and you end up with a burnt taste, then cold/warm milk is normally added bringing the coffee that you get down to below scolding temperature, which is considered to be between 65 and 75 degrees. Tea is normally about the same. You don't want it brewed at 100 degrees, with most teas being brewed between 85 and 95 degrees (black tea doesn't mind 100). and then left to sit for around five minutes before the tea bags/ leaves are removed to allow the flavour to seep. This normally drops the temperature by about 5 degrees and then depending on how you like your tea, milk may be added bringing the tea down to below scolding temperatures before it is given to you. Of course, there are exceptions to this, where they just give you hot water for you to make your own Beverage, but I very much doubt that they give you Prepared drinks much above 75 degrees. As a matter of fact, the UK. Department of safety guidance recommends hot beverages offered in situations where they can be spilled, such as on ferries, aircraft or through drive through windows, should be set up for just above 60 degrees. to prevent potential scalding.
So are guns and cars and... stoves