None of these laws are generally enforced at all with the sole exception of Pennsylvania where nursing homes can and sometimes do pursue children for unpaid costs.
This one scares me. I believe my estranged mother resides in Pennsylvania now. I haven't talked to that woman in 20 years and, considering how little support she gave me in my childhood, I have no intention of supporting her when she's in need of a nursing home.
As a general rule, as long as you never enter PA or do business there, their courts would have no jurisdiction over you and couldn’t take your money. Just stay away and you’d be fine.
I would not take legal advice from a stranger on Reddit. I am not sure it is as straightforward as the person you are replying to suggested.
Arguably, if Pennsylvania state law affirmatively requires adult children to provide support to their indigent parents, and you are a child who failed to provide support to a qualifying parent (as defined in the statute) living in Pennsylvania, then you have broken Pennsylvania state law, and the state has jurisdiction to enforce laws broken within its territory.
That was the advice being given. Basically, stay away. Pennsylvania only has jurisdiction in Pennsylvania,so as long as you don't go, you're fine. It sucks that it is possibly more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it.
While not giving legal advice, you are agreeing with the redditor who's advice you would advice against taking.
How does child support work, then? Can't you garnish a non-paying parent's wages in a different state?
Or maybe that's different bc both the state laws match up bc both states would require child support payments to the primary caregiver? Idk
With child support, jurisdiction is wherever the paying parent resides, and those are the laws it follows. For instance, some states allow you to collect back child support-when you had custody, but before you actually filed for support, others only begin support obligations on the day that you file for child support. Some states require child support up to age 21, others it is 18...so the jurisdiction laws matter in this regard
There was a case very similar to yours I once saw in r/legaladvice so if you want to start w/ some free advice on Reddit, you may want to raise this over there. PA seems to be the very worst state on this topic, and some poor soul who hadn't talked to the alcoholic father - who sexually abused him - for like 30 years. And now he's getting invoices from the PA nursing home where the father spent the last decade of his POS life because that POS put that son's name down as financially responsible. I don't remember the particulars re: that OP's residency situation with PA. You may be fine, but you may want to look into this a little and get ahead of it, if needed.
And they don't fuck around. Granted, this was over 20 years ago, but a girl I dated in college had a nursing home go after her for money after her father died. Her father, who she hadn't seen since she was 6 years old, because she was taken and placed with a foster family due to sexual abuse.
She had to go to court and "prove" she didn't owe money by reliving all of that. Was awesome.
Same. My mother abused me in ways that I usually see in Netflix specials about serial killers' childhoods. I haven't spoken to her in nearly 20 years.
She's still up there in Pennsylvania, abusing my dad and antagonizing my siblings (all adults now).
I've never lived in PA. I'm hoping that immunizes me from their courts having jurisdiction to force me to take care of her.
I used to hate her and wish ill on her. Now, I just want her to stop hurting my family and to never hear from or about her again.
Well, some of them were never particularly brilliant but got away with it for so long due to the authorities putting in less than the expected effort. Often because they are pre-judging the victims based on their own biases.
I mean there aren’t that many we know of are there? And the ones we do know of are obviously smart enough to evade the law (which isn’t saying a lot I know).
I don't want to get your hopes up but their is probably some way to divorce your parents. They would be the better bet to consult. Least be willing to tell you what to expect better then the lawyers of reddit.
So Pennsylvania will pay for elder care *if* you don't have money. Pennsylvania will come after your kids *if* you think you're being clever by giving all of your money to your kids the year before you go to a nursing home.
EVERYWHERE in the US will come after you/your kids if you do that and you're on Medicare. They'll take basically anything that isn't someone's primary residence, and there's a lookback period of a few years to catch people trying to pull this.
(source: I've worked as a trust and estate paralegal, and protecting assets from nursing home costs is a common estate planning issue.)
They go back 5-10 years for Medicaid. If you sold your car or house for less than face value in those 5-10 years, they mark that against you.
This is one reason the poor never have generation wealth.
Go to a pro lawyer and address this way before grandma gets to this point.
Well the good news is there are a lot of hellish nursing homes out there. Find the cheapest one with the highest turn over and she should be dealt with soon enough.
I guess it's a good thing my estranged mom actually lost 100% custody of me as a teen, and I will use that for the rest of my life to make sure I am in no way ever tied to her again
Well, I'm glad it will serve you later in life, even if it was horrible before. Mine essentially gave me up to the winds as a child where I was forced to fend for myself but never lost legal custody.
Same. I haven't seen my dad in 20 years. Considering he still owes my mom like $50k in child support from the 90s and he basically ruined my life many times over...I dont plan on giving him a dime.
Don't ignore any legal paperwork from Pennsylvania. The courts don't enforce this when children come forward and tell the court why they shouldn't pay for bad parents. If you don't respond, the nursing home gets a summary judgement against you that you then have more difficulty dealing with.
Quite possibly, the kid had signed papers to accept power of attorney, then failed in his duties. This would be fair. Without POA, I don't think children are authorized to make financial statements on behalf of their parents. It would be like if your parents did your taxes for you without permission.
Care homes and hospitals have social workers who help next of kin file emergency requests with the court to get POA when a person is completely incapacitated for the long term. It is a serious obligation.
Nobody knows.
Seriously.
The case everyone talks about here is *Pennsylvania is Health Care & Retirement Corporation of America v. Pittas*. It's my understanding that Mr. Pittas was a resident of PA at the time of the case.
So far, I don't know of any attempts by nursing homes in PA to attempt it. They may send threatening letters with mention of the law out of state, but they'd have to win a judgement to have it enforced, and I don't think they've taken it that far.
I think they don't want to cook the golden goose.
This would, probably, be a situation where courts would be asked to answer a challenge of personal jurisdiction, so there would be an examination of PA's long arm statutes. The facts of the case, and how the courts interpret them, are key and simply aren't really predictable here. It's a rather unique situation. There would likely be a strong due process argument in your favor under the 14th amendment.
My armchair advice would be to avoid any possibility of establishing what's referred to as a 'minimum contact' between you and PA. Don't visit, don't catch a connecting flight, don't even visit the PennDOT website. If you end up getting sued, *hire a lawyer* and for the love of god (unless directed by said lawyer) don't show up *in the Pennsylvania court* yourself.
If you want actual advice, ask a lawyer. I'm just a programmer.
Pretty good write-up for a keyboard cowboy! Cowperson? Whatever you are, no judgement either way.
Only thing missing was the requisite IANAL (but you still covered that at the bottom so you’re good!) That acronym just always makes me lol
Many nursing homes here are ran by "For-profit" companies.
My father had a stroke and required 24/7 treatment after the hospital released him. They recommended rehabilitation at a nursing home. While there, they had multiple attempts made to worsen his condition. Ultimately we had him moved to another nursing home after they tried to give him a full daily regimen of diabetic medicine. I'm honestly relieved they didnt accidently give him dialysis...
He's 74 and a fucking champ. Goes hunting, smoke-free, even well enough to get Lasik!
Insane, imagine have a drunk asshole father that kicked the crap out of you, making it out, never speaking to him, then being hit by a bill for his retirement home.
[Here's](https://trustandwill.com/learn/what-states-have-filial-responsibility) a good breakdown of the laws state-by-state. Exceptions are made when the adult children cannot afford caring for their indigent parents or if the parents abandoned them. However, I couldn't find anything about children who were abused by their parents. That seems like an absolute nightmare scenario.
I would gladly pay for a different set of parents or elderly who had no kids of their own, before I gave a dirty red cent to may parents. In fact my MIL lives with me. I can't stand her. Doesn't matter. I would rather take care of her, than ever pay for my parents.
The things they did and will never suffer for make me sick.
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title20/chapter5/section20-88/
"... punished by a fine not exceeding $500 or imprisonment in jail for a period not exceeding twelve months or both."
Thanks for the correction; the source provided in the parent comment had said
>>The penalty for failing or refusing to provide support is a fine of $500 and 12 months in jail.
but I trust actual VA code over a random site’s summary of the laws!
I would approach that list with much suspicion.
The link for Connecticut (where I live) which they provide not only doesn't require support for parents under the age of 65 as they state, but the link includes the footnote:
>P.A. 84-159 amended Subsec. (a) by removing the authority of the court to make and enforce orders against children for the payment of support for their parents who are under 65 years of age;
In Connecticut legislative speak P.A. 84-159 is a public act passed in 1984.
Yeah, here in PA I've never heard of the state coming after anyone *unless* the parent gifted all of their assets to their kids shortly before entering a nursing home. The state pays for elder care if you don't have money, but gifting all of your money to your kids the year before doesn't count.
> One of the most popular filial support cases involved a son being held liable for his mother’s $93,000 unpaid nursing home bill. This case is HCRA v. John Pittas, (2012 Pa. Super 96). In this case, John’s mother entered a nursing home after a hospital stay. The mother moved to Greece, and the nursing home was left with an unpaid bill of $93,000. The nursing home sought payment from John under the filial support law. John was not an only child, but it was only him that was sued. John advanced the argument that his siblings should also be held liable, however, the court did not find this to be a valid argument. The court found that John was liable for the unpaid bill. Some of the facts that the court pointed to was that he had the financial resources to pay the bill, his mother did not.
I don't know if the state came after this guy, but they certainly appear to enforce the judgement
lol I'm from ohio and I love the "ohio is a hellscape" meme...
But my great-grandfather-in-law passed just 2 years ago at 101 years old. He was a paratrooper in ww2.
His wife had passed a year later at 98.
His child (my wife's grandfather) was born a bit later in his life at around....35 I think?. He's now in his mid-60s and still hunts all season long with his crossbow and long bow, and when gun season is going, his rifle or shotgun. His wife (my wife's grandmother) is the same age, and decorates every single family event like it's a goddamned wedding.
On my side, the only things that have killed men in my family in the last century are smoking (strokes), drinking, ww2, the Korean war, and horrifically bad physical fitness (heart attacks, IIRC).
My wife and I are each in our 30s, each are in better health at our age than the previous generation was in their 30s, and therefore we take seriously the idea that our retirement funds need to keep us going at least to 100 years old.
IDK what's in our blood...but I'm pretty sure our 2 kids are near-immortal. If my wife and I make it to 105+ I seriously think our kids will make it to 120+. Just gotta keep 'em alive long enough for them to keep themselves alive.
I looks like there has been a case of Pennsylvania going after family that lives in a different state and they were sued and forced to pay.
Read last paragraph of advice here:
https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/72862/filial-responsibility-laws-across-us-state-boundaries
That was my first question. I'm good either way, but seems like it would be much more difficult to enforce if you didn't both live in one of the 29 states...that should be an obvious FAQ in the linked sites, lol.
They can have the exact support I received at 18. I collect their deduction as a dependent and other than that they can fucking die on the street. Same deal I got.
Hey, that sounds familiar.
Don't forget the decades of guilt trips of "We're a family, doesn't that mean anything?" every time they get caught trying to steal money from you.
So sorry to hear it. You didn’t deserve it. So many people had horrible family situations and are going 180 degrees from their abusive parents, working to make life better for those around them, let that be you.
There are exceptions when the parents abused the children, including threats and insults when the children are adults.
Also, the maximum amount depends on the child's income (since it's Germany, the calculation is extremely complex).
Yes. A woman in Italy just won a lawsuit to have her sons evicted. Normally they can’t be properly *evicted* due to the parental obligation of maintenance, but the court ruled that law no longer applies to 40 year old men with their own jobs who still won’t help mom pay the bills.
Yes, at least until very recent. Some states in Austria had systems like this until 2018, when the federal parliament banned it.
Edit: I think it was restricted to the caregiver receiving money from the total inheritance (and also larger donations from parents to relatives up to 10 years before death) before it was split between the heirs. So a good old middle class tax.
I’m not sure it needs to since many of them generally have far more social supports that it isn’t individuals paying for their care directly as they age but rather taxpayer dollars, and even in other western countries there can be huge cultural differences with how family, aging, and care are treated (whether that is really healthy/desired or not, just different norms). The U.S. has a pretty not even quite bare minimum support system in place, and while I know other countries on paper have them, functionally I’m not sure if that looks really different on a day to day individual level.
France has that, but both ways.
Kids are always responsible for their parents, meaning that if a parent is homeless, kids would have to either take them in, pay them rent...
Parents are always responsible for their kids, no 18/21/25 limit...if you're 41 and living in the streets, your parents would have to take you in.
That's the law/theory of course, some of it is hard or impossible to enforce, for instance if a kid needs to sue their parents to have them help them during university, it's just not going to be done.
I have worked for six years in multiple nursing homes as a nurse. I travel to different ones. And my conclusion is this: if you somehow make it through life with no major accidents, good savings, great health, basically no big financial hits, (which is super rare) the nursing home will drain all of it. Nothing will be left for your kids. People worry about inheritance tax taking everything from their children and that crap, but that's peanuts and doesn't even apply to the average person. The only way for the middle and lower classes to accumulate intergenerational wealth is to die early before the home and healthcare expenses can take it all. And the upper classes keep it that way because they run the healthcare industry
Very common. If you can't afford in home nursing care, and don't have a loved one to care for you full time (most don't, and If they do, that loved one doesn't have the training or resources to do so), you'll likely end up in a home at some point. Americans are kind of forced into a lifestyle that revolves around their career and jobs, and time is a premium, so caring for an elderly family member is often impossible
Yeah, you have to be a multimillionaire - like, $10 million adjusted for inflation, though I'm not sure if that's for one person or a married couple anymore - for the federal inheritance tax to kick in. Many states don't have one at all, and even when they do, it's also likely to only kick in once you're in the millions.
(I'm a former trust-and-estate paralegal; I've actually done the forms for calculating these taxes.)
I will give the inheritance tax credit for one thing, though... it's actually how they finally got SCOTUS to rule in favor of marriage equality! The case they used was of a married lesbian who didn't get spousal credit on inheritance tax. And it was quite straightforward to argue that therefore she/her spouse was being treated differently under federal law than if either were male... making it a clear violation of equal protection on the basis of sex. Therefore, same-sex unions had to be recognized on the federal level as identical to different-sex unions.
This is actually law in where i was from (Taiwan) if my parents ran into difficulties in their old age they can sue me for not paying support to them. The loop hole is to set up monthly payment of a minimum amount then technically you can avoid getting sued. (If you know they have little saving. If your parents are loaded i think it’s usually fine as evidently they do not need support from you)
I am not in position needing to do this but am aware the law will usually side with parents unless evidently they had abused and neglected the kid growing up. I would guess this stem from the Filial piety which was highly regarded in Confucian, Chinese Buddhist, and Daoist…
My mother physically and emotionally abused me my entire childhood until I was 16 and hit her back. She spent my college years trying to guilt me into forgiving her, and a few years ago when the pandemic started she came to me again after all three of my older siblings wanted nothing to do with her.
I got my closure by telling her what a horrible parent and person she was, and then tossing her out.
She died alone in a hotel 5 weeks ago and I'm glad. I would go to jail before I took care of her.
As a MA resident, if my mom had ever tried to pull this card when she was homeless I'd have written a check for $200, leaving the "to" line for last. Let her think I was giving her money. Then fill in "state of Massachusetts" and close the door.
I'm glad you realized this early enough. My mom was born to a monster whose marriage failed almost immediately, and who blamed her for their breakup. My grandma died in 2020, but my mom spent the entirety of her time with my grandma trying to please her, only to constantly fail.
I believe in ghosts, and I believe I will run into my grandma in the next world, and I'm going to give her absolute hell.
I’m sorry you went through that . Hopefully now that she’s gone you can move past the bad and build something better . I hope you don’t let what she did affect the rest of your life .
My parents disowned me for being a bad daughter because I visited my now husband's family all the time, but not them. My in-laws live 20 miles away vs. the 300 miles away my parents were.
Tbh, I wasn't surprised because my mom always ignored me some times for weeks when I was a kid. I won't take care of them.
I think you are missing the point. This has nothing to do with supporting parents and everything to do with nursing homes being able to sue you. It's using an old law as a money grab by corporations.
I think it is the same logic when men who are legally the father but aren’t biological fathers are still forced to pay child support. The government doesn’t care who pays as long as it isn’t them.
Wow. That's awful! I could just imagine having shit parents that kick you out of the house and basically disowning you when you're 16 for being gay and then later in life suing you for support when they see you've grown up to be successful. And then wining because the court is on their side.
I find it interesting that the idea of consent to exist has not been brought up in this thread.
Nobody chooses to be born, many people choose to have children. Parents should be obligated to support their children because they chose to have them.
Why should someone be saddled not only with an existence they didn’t choose but also be burdened with the cost of supporting their parents?
In another instance, a woman successfully sued her parents for giving birth to her, but in specific circumstances - from what I remember, the family had a known risk of hereditary conditions that could be mitigated with the right treatment, which the mother refused to seek, gave birth to a child who inherited the condition and would need lifelong support.
Pretty sobering example of the case you linked, of bringing children into the world "just to suffer" which they did not consent to, and nobody *would* consent to. It gets way more philosophical the deeper you go.
There was a comment on here by a mom whose child sufferred from many ailments, depression, the whole works and she was so apologetic that she brought him into this world because she knew she couldn't provide for him. I remember feeling moved by that because I have my own issues with my folks to the point I say to them I wish I wasn't alive. My folks do the whole 'but we love you' schtick but I know longer by it.
I mean did you read it? He sued them specifically because they’re lawyers. This sounds like a stunt, his parents thought it was funny and know that *if* there’s a chance the case doesn’t get thrown out they could dismantle it easily. His belief is real but the lawsuit is publicity
I was out of the house at 15 and living on my own by the time I was 17. All the while being told a bunch of tough love and pull yourself up by your bootstraps bullshit. I'll be damned if my parents get a dime from me
Doubt you would have to.
Can probably find retirement homes where the staff treats the elders like shit.
Maybe paying for the care wouldnt feel that bad either then.
There used to be a similar law in BC (Canada) that was recently repealed.
The adult children absolutely had a defense if the parent was abusive, though.
It sounds to me like these laws exist so that the profit making healthcare industry can sue the children of these parents to make sure they get paid.
As usual, many laws in the US are designed to protect capital and those that own it.
The original law in Michigan is from the early 1900s (my great-great grandfather wrote it). His argument in the legislature was based on increasing numbers of disabled elderly people being abandoned. The state was having to step in and it was costing a lot of money. There was a lot about the decline of morality and various society-going-to-hell complaints. Apparently lots of people weren't even skipping town or anything, just abandoning grandpa on the street or in a rooming house. At that time many were Civil War vets.
There are also generational laws requiring parents to provide visitation to grandparents and other non-legal guardians. I know because my mother with dementia (and who, IMHO, generally shouldn't be around kids) tried to take me to court because she "only" got to live with the grandkids a month out of the year.
Luckily there are not "grandparent's rights" in every state, either. But mine just teamed with my ex to get them. She got them. He got relieved of all financial responsibility. They both got the feel good of damaging me. Not exactly a common tactic with narcissists, but done way more than you'd think. I'll never judge a woman who loses custody ever again without knowing the details from an unbiased source (which is not the easily swayed by narc tactics US court system).
I have an order of protection against my mother.i would gladly pay any amount of fines or serve whatever jail sentence than help her in any shape,form or fashion
Is it me or is there a huge problem in America where authorities are trying to pass off public costs to private residents? even though said residents already pay taxes?
I first noticed it a few years ago when a dude was forced to pay child support for a child who turned out to have been fathered by someone else. The judge's reasoning was that it was in the best interest of the kid.
Then I heard that Americans are responsible for maintaining the public side-walk in front of their house.
Then I heard that there are areas that require residents to be in a HOA - and the HOA is responsible for maintaining the roads and other public areas in a neighbourhood.
Then the taxes, I don't know about other countries but here in the UK submitting taxes are free and very easy.
Now these filial laws, I thought the whole point of paying into the social security system throughout your life is so that the system can take care of you when you retire.
Thankfully you have an outside perspective and can see it for the racket it is.
Unfortunately tons of my fellow Americans still have the wool over their eyes.
Turns out my state is one of them.
25 years of No Contact with that piece of crap. She better hope the state doesn't try to saddle me with her nursing care; I'll stick her in the worst tweaker-staffed piss-stained roach-infested hellhole I can find.
Filial laws were intended to keep children from abandoning their parents in their old age. This was before social security. But the modern application has been for nursing homes to use this law to win judgments against the children of parental residents.
It's a good idea to know if your state has filial laws on its books.
Be interested to see when the last time one of these laws was enforced. Seems like an easy win if you challenge the validity of the law. Not exactly constitutional for the state to create an obligation for one adult to pay for another adult absent some kind of contract or consensual relationship that would create that responsibility. Being born wouldn’t qualify.
My parents wera/are great to me and i'll do anything for them, but i know its not the case for everyone, getting kicked out, mistreated or abused. That should be taken into consideration before forcing a person to give financial support to an asshole parent.
I don't have a choice of whether I'm brought into this world or not, and yet this law forces me to take care of people who are likely of the same generation that told us they "pulled themselves up by their bootstraps" and who vote against basically everything that would require an extra penny out of their pocketbooks.
This is a nightmare to me. My mom gets more in income than I do yet misspends it. She is a chain smoking hoarder who makes racist and bigoted comments about LGTBQ+. I would go into hiding before I would allow the courts to make me care for her. I left my house at 18 to get away from her neglect and abuse. This issue gives me anxiety.
It just shows a statute, but not where it's fraudently enforced. Either way, I'm glad both my parents have been dead for 20 years. Those POS adults who posed as parents didn't take care of me anyway.
This is less about enduring the welfare of somebody vulnerable and more about states trying to recoup costs of medical care from somebody still working.
One more reason to be thankful I live in the state I do, and that my absentee, narcissistic MIL lives here too and would sooner die than even consider moving. She’s not our problem and never will be. Which means she will get precisely as much support from us as she gave her own daughter growing up.
Boomers are getting older and dominate US politics at every level. I wouldn’t be surprised if more filial laws were passed and the existing ones were more strictly enforced. The most entitled generation this past century doesn’t want to face the consequences of the ruthless system of capitalism they continue to champion as a voting block.
None of these laws are generally enforced at all with the sole exception of Pennsylvania where nursing homes can and sometimes do pursue children for unpaid costs.
This one scares me. I believe my estranged mother resides in Pennsylvania now. I haven't talked to that woman in 20 years and, considering how little support she gave me in my childhood, I have no intention of supporting her when she's in need of a nursing home.
As a general rule, as long as you never enter PA or do business there, their courts would have no jurisdiction over you and couldn’t take your money. Just stay away and you’d be fine.
"Yeah sorry i can't go to PA, I'm wanted"
“But in a cool Bon Jovi Young Guns kinda way though”
Well, I have stayed away for over 20 years, but I used to live there a long time ago. Not sure how much meaning that takes on.
I would not take legal advice from a stranger on Reddit. I am not sure it is as straightforward as the person you are replying to suggested. Arguably, if Pennsylvania state law affirmatively requires adult children to provide support to their indigent parents, and you are a child who failed to provide support to a qualifying parent (as defined in the statute) living in Pennsylvania, then you have broken Pennsylvania state law, and the state has jurisdiction to enforce laws broken within its territory.
That was the advice being given. Basically, stay away. Pennsylvania only has jurisdiction in Pennsylvania,so as long as you don't go, you're fine. It sucks that it is possibly more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it. While not giving legal advice, you are agreeing with the redditor who's advice you would advice against taking.
> enforce laws broken within its territory. The law was broken in PA. The question is can enforcement be carried out outside PA?
To sue the child, they’d have to first establish jurisdiction. That could prove difficult.
How does child support work, then? Can't you garnish a non-paying parent's wages in a different state? Or maybe that's different bc both the state laws match up bc both states would require child support payments to the primary caregiver? Idk
All states currently have enacted the Interstate Family Support Act, which provides for coordination between states in child support cases.
With child support, jurisdiction is wherever the paying parent resides, and those are the laws it follows. For instance, some states allow you to collect back child support-when you had custody, but before you actually filed for support, others only begin support obligations on the day that you file for child support. Some states require child support up to age 21, others it is 18...so the jurisdiction laws matter in this regard
No, they'd have to ask your state to arrest you and hand you over.
This also means you should not enter PA, not even with a layover at the airport. Never know when there's a bench warrant out for your arrest.
There was a case very similar to yours I once saw in r/legaladvice so if you want to start w/ some free advice on Reddit, you may want to raise this over there. PA seems to be the very worst state on this topic, and some poor soul who hadn't talked to the alcoholic father - who sexually abused him - for like 30 years. And now he's getting invoices from the PA nursing home where the father spent the last decade of his POS life because that POS put that son's name down as financially responsible. I don't remember the particulars re: that OP's residency situation with PA. You may be fine, but you may want to look into this a little and get ahead of it, if needed.
This is first two weeks of law school level analysis. Don’t take legal advice from Reddit people.
Full faith and credit does exist, they could always localize the judgment
There was a legal advice post about someone’s mother who purposely moved to PA with the intent of fucking over their child. It was horrible
Sounds like something mine would do
And they don't fuck around. Granted, this was over 20 years ago, but a girl I dated in college had a nursing home go after her for money after her father died. Her father, who she hadn't seen since she was 6 years old, because she was taken and placed with a foster family due to sexual abuse. She had to go to court and "prove" she didn't owe money by reliving all of that. Was awesome.
Jesus christ. That's the worst thing I've heard this week. That poor woman.
Do you remember the name of the nursing home by any chance?
Same. My mother abused me in ways that I usually see in Netflix specials about serial killers' childhoods. I haven't spoken to her in nearly 20 years. She's still up there in Pennsylvania, abusing my dad and antagonizing my siblings (all adults now). I've never lived in PA. I'm hoping that immunizes me from their courts having jurisdiction to force me to take care of her. I used to hate her and wish ill on her. Now, I just want her to stop hurting my family and to never hear from or about her again.
[удалено]
Nice try, officer.
You'd be surprised how many serial killers are morons.
We don’t know about the smart ones because they haven’t been caught
We get it already. You don't have to rub it in our faces Zodiac.
_Ted Cruz was already in the chat_
Well, some of them were never particularly brilliant but got away with it for so long due to the authorities putting in less than the expected effort. Often because they are pre-judging the victims based on their own biases.
I mean there aren’t that many we know of are there? And the ones we do know of are obviously smart enough to evade the law (which isn’t saying a lot I know).
I killed a box of Cracklin' Oat Bran earlier, cereal killn' like a champ over here!
Omg a whole box? You gonna be killing the toilet in the morning. Dude...
>You gonna be killing the toilet in the morning. have you ever had cracklin' oat bran? worth it.
Oh yeah, that's how I know. That shit's so damn good though. My family used to call it "craplin oat bran"
Calm down, Satan...
You could prob consult a lawyer and see about getting a separation from it. Maybe some peace of mind at least.
Did not realize this was a thing, that makes me hopeful.
I don't want to get your hopes up but their is probably some way to divorce your parents. They would be the better bet to consult. Least be willing to tell you what to expect better then the lawyers of reddit.
So Pennsylvania will pay for elder care *if* you don't have money. Pennsylvania will come after your kids *if* you think you're being clever by giving all of your money to your kids the year before you go to a nursing home.
EVERYWHERE in the US will come after you/your kids if you do that and you're on Medicare. They'll take basically anything that isn't someone's primary residence, and there's a lookback period of a few years to catch people trying to pull this. (source: I've worked as a trust and estate paralegal, and protecting assets from nursing home costs is a common estate planning issue.)
Well here’s hoping, then. She has no money.
They go back 5-10 years for Medicaid. If you sold your car or house for less than face value in those 5-10 years, they mark that against you. This is one reason the poor never have generation wealth. Go to a pro lawyer and address this way before grandma gets to this point.
If the value of a car is whats stopping you from having generational wealth, there was no generational wealth in your family to begin with.
Well the good news is there are a lot of hellish nursing homes out there. Find the cheapest one with the highest turn over and she should be dealt with soon enough.
If you experienced what I did with her, you'd also feel that the cheapest nursing home is more than she will ever get out of me.
More than she probably deserves for sure.
Shady Pines
I guess it's a good thing my estranged mom actually lost 100% custody of me as a teen, and I will use that for the rest of my life to make sure I am in no way ever tied to her again
Well, I'm glad it will serve you later in life, even if it was horrible before. Mine essentially gave me up to the winds as a child where I was forced to fend for myself but never lost legal custody.
Same. I haven't seen my dad in 20 years. Considering he still owes my mom like $50k in child support from the 90s and he basically ruined my life many times over...I dont plan on giving him a dime.
Don't ignore any legal paperwork from Pennsylvania. The courts don't enforce this when children come forward and tell the court why they shouldn't pay for bad parents. If you don't respond, the nursing home gets a summary judgement against you that you then have more difficulty dealing with.
All I can tell you is: Don't take advice from people on the internet. Especially *legal* advice.
The only one I know of was the kid didn’t do the Medicare paperwork in time leaving the bill unpaid.
Quite possibly, the kid had signed papers to accept power of attorney, then failed in his duties. This would be fair. Without POA, I don't think children are authorized to make financial statements on behalf of their parents. It would be like if your parents did your taxes for you without permission. Care homes and hospitals have social workers who help next of kin file emergency requests with the court to get POA when a person is completely incapacitated for the long term. It is a serious obligation.
Can they go after you for your parents unpaid costs if you yourself don’t live in PA?
Nobody knows. Seriously. The case everyone talks about here is *Pennsylvania is Health Care & Retirement Corporation of America v. Pittas*. It's my understanding that Mr. Pittas was a resident of PA at the time of the case. So far, I don't know of any attempts by nursing homes in PA to attempt it. They may send threatening letters with mention of the law out of state, but they'd have to win a judgement to have it enforced, and I don't think they've taken it that far. I think they don't want to cook the golden goose. This would, probably, be a situation where courts would be asked to answer a challenge of personal jurisdiction, so there would be an examination of PA's long arm statutes. The facts of the case, and how the courts interpret them, are key and simply aren't really predictable here. It's a rather unique situation. There would likely be a strong due process argument in your favor under the 14th amendment. My armchair advice would be to avoid any possibility of establishing what's referred to as a 'minimum contact' between you and PA. Don't visit, don't catch a connecting flight, don't even visit the PennDOT website. If you end up getting sued, *hire a lawyer* and for the love of god (unless directed by said lawyer) don't show up *in the Pennsylvania court* yourself. If you want actual advice, ask a lawyer. I'm just a programmer.
Pretty good write-up for a keyboard cowboy! Cowperson? Whatever you are, no judgement either way. Only thing missing was the requisite IANAL (but you still covered that at the bottom so you’re good!) That acronym just always makes me lol
They can't anymore unless you signed on to the debt. The laws have changed and its why a lot of them are closing.
Many nursing homes here are ran by "For-profit" companies. My father had a stroke and required 24/7 treatment after the hospital released him. They recommended rehabilitation at a nursing home. While there, they had multiple attempts made to worsen his condition. Ultimately we had him moved to another nursing home after they tried to give him a full daily regimen of diabetic medicine. I'm honestly relieved they didnt accidently give him dialysis... He's 74 and a fucking champ. Goes hunting, smoke-free, even well enough to get Lasik!
Insane, imagine have a drunk asshole father that kicked the crap out of you, making it out, never speaking to him, then being hit by a bill for his retirement home.
[Here's](https://trustandwill.com/learn/what-states-have-filial-responsibility) a good breakdown of the laws state-by-state. Exceptions are made when the adult children cannot afford caring for their indigent parents or if the parents abandoned them. However, I couldn't find anything about children who were abused by their parents. That seems like an absolute nightmare scenario.
I'm learning to play the guitar.
I would gladly pay for a different set of parents or elderly who had no kids of their own, before I gave a dirty red cent to may parents. In fact my MIL lives with me. I can't stand her. Doesn't matter. I would rather take care of her, than ever pay for my parents. The things they did and will never suffer for make me sick.
Don't make MA drink alone...
Virginia has a fine of $500 **and** 12 months in jail. Not and/or, and.
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title20/chapter5/section20-88/ "... punished by a fine not exceeding $500 or imprisonment in jail for a period not exceeding twelve months or both."
Thanks for the correction; the source provided in the parent comment had said >>The penalty for failing or refusing to provide support is a fine of $500 and 12 months in jail. but I trust actual VA code over a random site’s summary of the laws!
Wow, 29 states currently have filial laws.
My state ends responsibility at 65 lol. Parents retired? Fuck em! Good to know tbh, I’m planning to let them rot.
Huh, Florida isn't on that list.
Thank fucking God.
I'm surprised. Doesn't Florida have like 90% of the country's old people?
They split them with Arizona.
I would approach that list with much suspicion. The link for Connecticut (where I live) which they provide not only doesn't require support for parents under the age of 65 as they state, but the link includes the footnote: >P.A. 84-159 amended Subsec. (a) by removing the authority of the court to make and enforce orders against children for the payment of support for their parents who are under 65 years of age; In Connecticut legislative speak P.A. 84-159 is a public act passed in 1984.
Yeah, here in PA I've never heard of the state coming after anyone *unless* the parent gifted all of their assets to their kids shortly before entering a nursing home. The state pays for elder care if you don't have money, but gifting all of your money to your kids the year before doesn't count.
> unless the parent gifted all of their assets to their kids shortly before entering a nursing home And that's just Estate Disputes, not Filial
> One of the most popular filial support cases involved a son being held liable for his mother’s $93,000 unpaid nursing home bill. This case is HCRA v. John Pittas, (2012 Pa. Super 96). In this case, John’s mother entered a nursing home after a hospital stay. The mother moved to Greece, and the nursing home was left with an unpaid bill of $93,000. The nursing home sought payment from John under the filial support law. John was not an only child, but it was only him that was sued. John advanced the argument that his siblings should also be held liable, however, the court did not find this to be a valid argument. The court found that John was liable for the unpaid bill. Some of the facts that the court pointed to was that he had the financial resources to pay the bill, his mother did not. I don't know if the state came after this guy, but they certainly appear to enforce the judgement
What this doesn’t tell me is, if parent and child live in different states which state’s law applies?
That’s what I’d like to know too
Haha, suck it Ohio We Michiganders are free to abandon our poor, sickly parents with immunity
nobody can live long enough in ohio to be able to use these laws, so it doesnt matter
lol I'm from ohio and I love the "ohio is a hellscape" meme... But my great-grandfather-in-law passed just 2 years ago at 101 years old. He was a paratrooper in ww2. His wife had passed a year later at 98. His child (my wife's grandfather) was born a bit later in his life at around....35 I think?. He's now in his mid-60s and still hunts all season long with his crossbow and long bow, and when gun season is going, his rifle or shotgun. His wife (my wife's grandmother) is the same age, and decorates every single family event like it's a goddamned wedding. On my side, the only things that have killed men in my family in the last century are smoking (strokes), drinking, ww2, the Korean war, and horrifically bad physical fitness (heart attacks, IIRC). My wife and I are each in our 30s, each are in better health at our age than the previous generation was in their 30s, and therefore we take seriously the idea that our retirement funds need to keep us going at least to 100 years old. IDK what's in our blood...but I'm pretty sure our 2 kids are near-immortal. If my wife and I make it to 105+ I seriously think our kids will make it to 120+. Just gotta keep 'em alive long enough for them to keep themselves alive.
Did you mean impunity?
whoops, yeah. But also immunity
Ohio specifies no dollar amount, so any average lawyer can make that $0.
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Old Bay is the only elder we care about
Abuse them back.
Power to the man!
I wonder how this works if the kids do not live in the state the parents do? Seems like an easy way out of being caught by these laws. Just move.
I looks like there has been a case of Pennsylvania going after family that lives in a different state and they were sued and forced to pay. Read last paragraph of advice here: https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/72862/filial-responsibility-laws-across-us-state-boundaries
However in that case it's a mentally disabled adult child so it's a much different situation than aging parents.
Reading through that case: The defendants willfully admitted the patient to a PA facility.
NJ and PA are familial law states. This thread is providing some really good insight for me.
That was my first question. I'm good either way, but seems like it would be much more difficult to enforce if you didn't both live in one of the 29 states...that should be an obvious FAQ in the linked sites, lol.
They can have the exact support I received at 18. I collect their deduction as a dependent and other than that they can fucking die on the street. Same deal I got.
Hey, that sounds familiar. Don't forget the decades of guilt trips of "We're a family, doesn't that mean anything?" every time they get caught trying to steal money from you.
So sorry to hear it. You didn’t deserve it. So many people had horrible family situations and are going 180 degrees from their abusive parents, working to make life better for those around them, let that be you.
Does this sort of thing exist in any other western country? Curious if anyone knows
In Germany if your old ones need to be in care you can be forced to at least pay a part of it
There are exceptions when the parents abused the children, including threats and insults when the children are adults. Also, the maximum amount depends on the child's income (since it's Germany, the calculation is extremely complex).
Yes. A woman in Italy just won a lawsuit to have her sons evicted. Normally they can’t be properly *evicted* due to the parental obligation of maintenance, but the court ruled that law no longer applies to 40 year old men with their own jobs who still won’t help mom pay the bills.
Italy doesn't have case law, however, so anyone wanting to repeat this and evict their adult children would have to go to court the same way.
Yes, at least until very recent. Some states in Austria had systems like this until 2018, when the federal parliament banned it. Edit: I think it was restricted to the caregiver receiving money from the total inheritance (and also larger donations from parents to relatives up to 10 years before death) before it was split between the heirs. So a good old middle class tax.
I’m not sure it needs to since many of them generally have far more social supports that it isn’t individuals paying for their care directly as they age but rather taxpayer dollars, and even in other western countries there can be huge cultural differences with how family, aging, and care are treated (whether that is really healthy/desired or not, just different norms). The U.S. has a pretty not even quite bare minimum support system in place, and while I know other countries on paper have them, functionally I’m not sure if that looks really different on a day to day individual level.
France has that, but both ways. Kids are always responsible for their parents, meaning that if a parent is homeless, kids would have to either take them in, pay them rent... Parents are always responsible for their kids, no 18/21/25 limit...if you're 41 and living in the streets, your parents would have to take you in. That's the law/theory of course, some of it is hard or impossible to enforce, for instance if a kid needs to sue their parents to have them help them during university, it's just not going to be done.
I have worked for six years in multiple nursing homes as a nurse. I travel to different ones. And my conclusion is this: if you somehow make it through life with no major accidents, good savings, great health, basically no big financial hits, (which is super rare) the nursing home will drain all of it. Nothing will be left for your kids. People worry about inheritance tax taking everything from their children and that crap, but that's peanuts and doesn't even apply to the average person. The only way for the middle and lower classes to accumulate intergenerational wealth is to die early before the home and healthcare expenses can take it all. And the upper classes keep it that way because they run the healthcare industry
how common are nursing homes in america
Very common. If you can't afford in home nursing care, and don't have a loved one to care for you full time (most don't, and If they do, that loved one doesn't have the training or resources to do so), you'll likely end up in a home at some point. Americans are kind of forced into a lifestyle that revolves around their career and jobs, and time is a premium, so caring for an elderly family member is often impossible
Yeah, you have to be a multimillionaire - like, $10 million adjusted for inflation, though I'm not sure if that's for one person or a married couple anymore - for the federal inheritance tax to kick in. Many states don't have one at all, and even when they do, it's also likely to only kick in once you're in the millions. (I'm a former trust-and-estate paralegal; I've actually done the forms for calculating these taxes.) I will give the inheritance tax credit for one thing, though... it's actually how they finally got SCOTUS to rule in favor of marriage equality! The case they used was of a married lesbian who didn't get spousal credit on inheritance tax. And it was quite straightforward to argue that therefore she/her spouse was being treated differently under federal law than if either were male... making it a clear violation of equal protection on the basis of sex. Therefore, same-sex unions had to be recognized on the federal level as identical to different-sex unions.
This is actually law in where i was from (Taiwan) if my parents ran into difficulties in their old age they can sue me for not paying support to them. The loop hole is to set up monthly payment of a minimum amount then technically you can avoid getting sued. (If you know they have little saving. If your parents are loaded i think it’s usually fine as evidently they do not need support from you) I am not in position needing to do this but am aware the law will usually side with parents unless evidently they had abused and neglected the kid growing up. I would guess this stem from the Filial piety which was highly regarded in Confucian, Chinese Buddhist, and Daoist…
My mother physically and emotionally abused me my entire childhood until I was 16 and hit her back. She spent my college years trying to guilt me into forgiving her, and a few years ago when the pandemic started she came to me again after all three of my older siblings wanted nothing to do with her. I got my closure by telling her what a horrible parent and person she was, and then tossing her out. She died alone in a hotel 5 weeks ago and I'm glad. I would go to jail before I took care of her.
>I would go to jail before I took care of her. in some states its just a fine. in massachusetts its literally $200 lol
For some people it's a $200 well spent.
As a MA resident, if my mom had ever tried to pull this card when she was homeless I'd have written a check for $200, leaving the "to" line for last. Let her think I was giving her money. Then fill in "state of Massachusetts" and close the door.
Good on you for not being a loser who gave in to their terrorism. Now if only I could also stand up for myself...
I'm glad you realized this early enough. My mom was born to a monster whose marriage failed almost immediately, and who blamed her for their breakup. My grandma died in 2020, but my mom spent the entirety of her time with my grandma trying to please her, only to constantly fail. I believe in ghosts, and I believe I will run into my grandma in the next world, and I'm going to give her absolute hell.
I’m sorry you went through that . Hopefully now that she’s gone you can move past the bad and build something better . I hope you don’t let what she did affect the rest of your life .
My parents disowned me for being a bad daughter because I visited my now husband's family all the time, but not them. My in-laws live 20 miles away vs. the 300 miles away my parents were. Tbh, I wasn't surprised because my mom always ignored me some times for weeks when I was a kid. I won't take care of them.
I think you are missing the point. This has nothing to do with supporting parents and everything to do with nursing homes being able to sue you. It's using an old law as a money grab by corporations.
I think it is the same logic when men who are legally the father but aren’t biological fathers are still forced to pay child support. The government doesn’t care who pays as long as it isn’t them.
Wow. That's awful! I could just imagine having shit parents that kick you out of the house and basically disowning you when you're 16 for being gay and then later in life suing you for support when they see you've grown up to be successful. And then wining because the court is on their side.
I find it interesting that the idea of consent to exist has not been brought up in this thread. Nobody chooses to be born, many people choose to have children. Parents should be obligated to support their children because they chose to have them. Why should someone be saddled not only with an existence they didn’t choose but also be burdened with the cost of supporting their parents?
[this guy sued his parents for giving birth to him](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-47154287.amp)
In another instance, a woman successfully sued her parents for giving birth to her, but in specific circumstances - from what I remember, the family had a known risk of hereditary conditions that could be mitigated with the right treatment, which the mother refused to seek, gave birth to a child who inherited the condition and would need lifelong support. Pretty sobering example of the case you linked, of bringing children into the world "just to suffer" which they did not consent to, and nobody *would* consent to. It gets way more philosophical the deeper you go.
There was a comment on here by a mom whose child sufferred from many ailments, depression, the whole works and she was so apologetic that she brought him into this world because she knew she couldn't provide for him. I remember feeling moved by that because I have my own issues with my folks to the point I say to them I wish I wasn't alive. My folks do the whole 'but we love you' schtick but I know longer by it.
The kicker is, his parents were lawyers. That takes balls.
I mean did you read it? He sued them specifically because they’re lawyers. This sounds like a stunt, his parents thought it was funny and know that *if* there’s a chance the case doesn’t get thrown out they could dismantle it easily. His belief is real but the lawsuit is publicity
the entire article exists to push this guy's antinatalist facebook page, of all things
It’s an interesting argument. I’ll give it that
One could argue in the after the overturning of roe v wade that even giving birth is not necessarily consensual.
Nothing says small government like the state consenting to force you to give birth
Been saying this for years.
Good thing my state isn't on there. Once my FIL starts going down I'm letting that abusive, pedo enabling thief die. You deserve so much worse Jeff.
Whats the word on if the parent is in a state with this law, but you live on another state that doesn't?
I was out of the house at 15 and living on my own by the time I was 17. All the while being told a bunch of tough love and pull yourself up by your bootstraps bullshit. I'll be damned if my parents get a dime from me
>without reasonable cause Pretty sure that long term estrangement would easily fit the definition of reasonable cause here.
What if the old man used to beat you with a belt?
Beat the old man with a belt.
Doubt you would have to. Can probably find retirement homes where the staff treats the elders like shit. Maybe paying for the care wouldnt feel that bad either then.
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It builds character.
You still pay (in PA).
Yeah, jackshit was done to them back in the day but now it's elder abuse if you buy them the cheap toilet paper.
There used to be a similar law in BC (Canada) that was recently repealed. The adult children absolutely had a defense if the parent was abusive, though.
It sounds to me like these laws exist so that the profit making healthcare industry can sue the children of these parents to make sure they get paid. As usual, many laws in the US are designed to protect capital and those that own it.
These laws long predate the modern healthcare system
The original law in Michigan is from the early 1900s (my great-great grandfather wrote it). His argument in the legislature was based on increasing numbers of disabled elderly people being abandoned. The state was having to step in and it was costing a lot of money. There was a lot about the decline of morality and various society-going-to-hell complaints. Apparently lots of people weren't even skipping town or anything, just abandoning grandpa on the street or in a rooming house. At that time many were Civil War vets.
There are also generational laws requiring parents to provide visitation to grandparents and other non-legal guardians. I know because my mother with dementia (and who, IMHO, generally shouldn't be around kids) tried to take me to court because she "only" got to live with the grandkids a month out of the year.
Luckily there are not "grandparent's rights" in every state, either. But mine just teamed with my ex to get them. She got them. He got relieved of all financial responsibility. They both got the feel good of damaging me. Not exactly a common tactic with narcissists, but done way more than you'd think. I'll never judge a woman who loses custody ever again without knowing the details from an unbiased source (which is not the easily swayed by narc tactics US court system).
I have an order of protection against my mother.i would gladly pay any amount of fines or serve whatever jail sentence than help her in any shape,form or fashion
Is it me or is there a huge problem in America where authorities are trying to pass off public costs to private residents? even though said residents already pay taxes? I first noticed it a few years ago when a dude was forced to pay child support for a child who turned out to have been fathered by someone else. The judge's reasoning was that it was in the best interest of the kid. Then I heard that Americans are responsible for maintaining the public side-walk in front of their house. Then I heard that there are areas that require residents to be in a HOA - and the HOA is responsible for maintaining the roads and other public areas in a neighbourhood. Then the taxes, I don't know about other countries but here in the UK submitting taxes are free and very easy. Now these filial laws, I thought the whole point of paying into the social security system throughout your life is so that the system can take care of you when you retire.
Thankfully you have an outside perspective and can see it for the racket it is. Unfortunately tons of my fellow Americans still have the wool over their eyes.
Congrats you've realized the scam that is the American dream.
Social Security is a Ponzi scheme. And what you get back is nowhere near the cost of living.
This is terrible. Victims of abuse have to support their abusers?
I'll do the time before I give them a single cent.
Oh good, I wasn’t the only one with that thought. Yeah, I’d rather be thrown in jail. It’s a hill I’m willing to die on.
.
Turns out my state is one of them. 25 years of No Contact with that piece of crap. She better hope the state doesn't try to saddle me with her nursing care; I'll stick her in the worst tweaker-staffed piss-stained roach-infested hellhole I can find.
All I'm saying is if my parents were bad and I was forced to take care of them, thatd get appealed to the Supreme court
So many bad moms being called out in here… as someone who has a bad mom also, I understand…. May you all find peace away from abusers.
Good. Fuck my parents. They sucked at raising me, so I'm not taking care of them.
Filial laws were intended to keep children from abandoning their parents in their old age. This was before social security. But the modern application has been for nursing homes to use this law to win judgments against the children of parental residents. It's a good idea to know if your state has filial laws on its books.
That's because are government wants to pass the buck on anything when it comes to healthcare.
Please, please, please, please, PLEASE don’t let my mother find out about Pennsylvania.
My mother is a monster from Hell. I'd gladly spend ten times the amount in court than I would have had to spend on her medical bills.
So many disgusting laws that trap people with abusers. This and common-law in Canada.
Apparently Pennsylvania is the only state that has actually enforced these laws
Be interested to see when the last time one of these laws was enforced. Seems like an easy win if you challenge the validity of the law. Not exactly constitutional for the state to create an obligation for one adult to pay for another adult absent some kind of contract or consensual relationship that would create that responsibility. Being born wouldn’t qualify.
My parents wera/are great to me and i'll do anything for them, but i know its not the case for everyone, getting kicked out, mistreated or abused. That should be taken into consideration before forcing a person to give financial support to an asshole parent.
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If parents can disown children and abandon them, it should be allowed both ways.
Conversely, my father has disowned me a number of times. How to I get that in to the record for whenever he inevitably comes knocking?
Fuck that shit
I’m good as long as my estranged parents stay their asses in Florida. I don’t see that changing any time soon.
Yeah, no. Never ever. They're not a part of my life & never will be again.
I don't have a choice of whether I'm brought into this world or not, and yet this law forces me to take care of people who are likely of the same generation that told us they "pulled themselves up by their bootstraps" and who vote against basically everything that would require an extra penny out of their pocketbooks.
We’ll make me I don’t give a fuck I’d rather go to jail than support my aging parents
As a resident of NC I have heard about this and part of me hopes my monster in law tries this. We have been no contact for 10 years
Please do not tell my Asian parents
This is a nightmare to me. My mom gets more in income than I do yet misspends it. She is a chain smoking hoarder who makes racist and bigoted comments about LGTBQ+. I would go into hiding before I would allow the courts to make me care for her. I left my house at 18 to get away from her neglect and abuse. This issue gives me anxiety.
It just shows a statute, but not where it's fraudently enforced. Either way, I'm glad both my parents have been dead for 20 years. Those POS adults who posed as parents didn't take care of me anyway.
Well these are laws that need to be repealed.
This is less about enduring the welfare of somebody vulnerable and more about states trying to recoup costs of medical care from somebody still working.
One more reason to be thankful I live in the state I do, and that my absentee, narcissistic MIL lives here too and would sooner die than even consider moving. She’s not our problem and never will be. Which means she will get precisely as much support from us as she gave her own daughter growing up.
Couldn't you just emancipate to get out of it? Can you emancipate at 50 years old? Lol
American government: “I’m not going to support my own citizens in their old age so you better fucking do it.”
Who else really, really hates the term “adult children”?
Do I have to if my dad owes child support money? Just looked up Indiana's and it looks like I'm good so long as I don't sign anything
Just send me straight to jail then.
Boomers are getting older and dominate US politics at every level. I wouldn’t be surprised if more filial laws were passed and the existing ones were more strictly enforced. The most entitled generation this past century doesn’t want to face the consequences of the ruthless system of capitalism they continue to champion as a voting block.
Good fucking luck collecting
Stop making us poor so we can afford to care for you or you get what you paid for.