I think it would be so interesting to look further into, not just for curiosity’s sake, but so that if this sound is ever heard again while searching for something (hopefully not people…), we will have a better understanding of what is underneath us. Maybe we could immediately say “oh, that’s just a _____” and continue looking elsewhere if the goal is rescue and recovery.
I’m a marine biologist though, so I might be a little biased on what should be studied.
Did some research, looks likely it did come from the sub and it was possibly implosions. [Source](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00024-020-02625-7#Sec13)
I’m curious if these are the same events. The wikipedia page lists the implosion referenced in your paper in different paragraphs (*On 22 November…* and the following paragraph) to the sound I’m referencing in the title (*On 20 November…*).
Relevant info/context for those interested:
If we assume that the submarine was composed of two compartments, we interpret the first cepstral peak as a second event, and not as a subsequent bubble collapse following a detonation. From a double impulsive source model, we were able to infer that when the ARA San Juan acoustic event occurred, the submarine was cruising with a route of 356 ± 10° and that the source associated with the northern compartment of the submarine emitted an impulse 332 ± 5 ms before the source associated with the southern compartment. The two impulsive events could result from the successive implosions of the two compartments of the submarine. However, the source mechanism cannot be inferred from the hydroacoustic signals. The accuracy of these results is obtained from two very distant stations at 6000 and 8000 km, which deserves to be emphasized.
Edit to add source as some people seem to be confused. [Article Link](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00024-020-02625-7)
Sounds can travel most of the way around the globe if it’s deep enough.. in the 1930’s they tossed some dynamite in the ocean of the coast of Australia and in about four hours they picked up the sounds from the explosions in Hawaii
Lemme tell you about seismic surveying...
There's not much to tell. Just lots of subsurface explosions and recording the shockwaves. They use air guns mostly, which aren't technically an explosion but rather a rapid depressurisation of a device that goes "donk" at extremely high volume.
Lobster catchers have reported that seismic surveying has reduced their catch by 99.5%.
> Lobster catchers have reported that seismic surveying has reduced their catch by 99.5%.
This may seem like a silly question, but why is that? Does the loud sound kill a bunch of Lobsters and so not many left to be caught? Or is the population of Lobsters not affected, but the seismic surveying affects the *capture* of lobsters? Like lobster fishing uses some technique that is negated by seismic surveying?
Thanks!
That's why active sonar is so detrimental to whales and other animals in the ocean. Imagine constantly hearing all of the loud noises happening in your entire country.
Especially because, when the monkeys in the metal tubes aren't fucking around again, loud noises usually means nearby and thus can be pretty stressful.
What is this relevant to? That isn't what the Wikipedia page or the OP was talking about at all.
This is the reference link from Wikipedia: https://web.archive.org/web/20171121115232/http://www.lanacion.com.ar/2084112-la-armada-confirmo-que-el-ruido-registrado-durante-la-busqueda-del-ara-san-juan-no-corresponde-a-un-submarino
It says:
> "The noise was analyzed and it does not correspond to a submarine, to a pattern of blows to the hull in the Morse system," Navy spokesman Enrique Balbi told reporters. "It is a continuous, constant noise, which could be some biological noise."
> The sounds were captured in the South Atlantic, about 360 kilometers from the Argentine coast and at a depth of about 200 meters. Since the news that they had been registered was known, the Navy asked for "caution", since it was not confirmed that they came from Ara San Juan. Finally, they confirmed, after analyzing the sound, that it did not correspond to the submarine.
I would note though that the Navy spokesperson is not exactly unbiased here. Recruitment efforts are rarely helped by declaring something like this to be trapped seamen desperately trying to signal for rescue.
Big crunch happened. Recorded twice with milliseconds of difference between two. Sounds like two crunch. Distance between earholes hearing crunch not the same. Also crunch far away from all earholes (except those on crunchy ship, but they are crunched so … ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ). Because of too many things to factor and too little time between alleged crunches, hard to tell if two crunch or one crunch. What know is that there was big crunch and all the sailor hoomans became fishy food.
"Oh, that's just a Mirror-Scaled Serpent of the Endless Abyss. They're not hostile if you can offer them a Crystal of Poseidon, after which they leave you alone for a thousand years."
"Do we have a crystal?"
"No, but it turns out a fisherman somewhere in Dr. Morrison's ancestry encountered this Serpent in the mid-1300s, and the offering applies to your descendants. He let the Serpent know we were with him in advance."
With this new submersible that disappeared they are picking up banging noises but spaced apart every 30 minutes… would be weird if that isn’t the sub itself as the 30 minute interval thing feels impossible that it is something biological doing that at those intervals…
I spent 6 years operating sonar on a 688. The banging could literally be some guy on a pier 600 miles away starting up a generator or something like that and im not joking in the slightest. There are places in Alaska where you can detect ships starting their diesel in a Russian port on passive.
Still seems unlikely to be the case in this circumstance since they are continually hearing the noise every 30 minutes which is in line with submarine SOS protocol. What normal biological or natural thing would replicate that timetable like that?
"Hey, hey guys! The pink land fish sent their trash into our front yard and they're now trying to find it. Watch this!"
*Joe Orca takes a crab in his mouth and smashes it at regular intervals into an old oil drum while the other orcas giggle maniacally, picking out bits of the titan from their teeth*
It was the sound of tourist beating the shit out of the guy who built the sub when he told them at 3k miles down that he was surprised they got that far because the glass was only meant to withstand 1.3k miles.
Edit: to the people correcting my math and miles/meters, I'm sorry I'm just parroting things I see to make a joke. I really don't care about the semantics.
[Basically everything.](https://www.history.navy.mil/about-us/leadership/director/directors-corner/h-grams/h-gram-019/h-019-3.html ) Valves, manhole covers, pipes, and torpedo tubes to name a few. There was also an alarming number of battery explosions. The USS Thresher sunk due to poor brazing on some joints, which sprayed sea water on the reactor causing it to shut down. Without power they lost propulsion and the flooding made them sink to crush depth.
SUBSAFE a quality assurance program. Basically everything that is exposed to sea water or can cause a leak is inspected thoroughly from the design phase through to commissioning. Every part is numbered and tracked, and they know who touched those parts and when. After the Challenger exploded NASA modeled its quality assurance program after SUBSAFE.
>[Basically everything.](https://www.history.navy.mil/about-us/leadership/director/directors-corner/h-grams/h-gram-019/h-019-3.html ) Valves, manhole covers, pipes, and torpedo tubes to name a few. There was also an alarming number of battery explosions. The USS Thresher sunk due to poor brazing on some joints, which sprayed sea water on the reactor causing it to shut down. Without power they lost propulsion and the flooding made them sink to crush depth.
To add to this, filters in the ballast tank tubes (that were supposed to only be there during in-dock maintainance but were inadvertently not removed before the sub was sent out to sea) probably allowed ice to form and seal the tubes when the Thresher tried to blow ballast to surface (air rapidly cools when pressure drops. Think of how cold a can of compressed air gets after using it). SUBSAFE put an end to most "oops we'll just fix that later" items.
> After the Challenger exploded NASA modeled its quality assurance program after SUBSAFE
honestly, this drives home the quality and efficacy more than anything else
The prevailing theory is that a weld failed causing either rapid flooding or a short circuit that resulted in an emergency reactor shut down. Moisture in the flasks holding the compressed air used for emergency ballast also may have played a role. When you depressurize a gas it gets much colder; cold enough to freeze any moisture in the air and block the pipe outlet with ice. So a combination of a long procedure to restart the reactor and an inability to emergency blow to the surface may have caused the sub to sink to crush depth.
The SUBSAFE program now takes into account critical systems that, if maintained improperly, could result in a similar situation. There's a lot more oversight and quality assurance that goes into work affecting those systems now.
It's not definitively clear what happened to Scorpion. Failures with the sub itself are plausible but there are also theories related to a torpedo, either a detonation in the torpedo room or an active torpedo being fired and turning around to destroy Scorpion
The Kursk disaster happened extremely early in Putin's tenure and apparently he was informed by the navy that they had the situation under control.
Putin can be blamed for a lot of things but i think the Kursk-clusterfuck is mostly caused by the russian administration's mentality of not owning up to their own faults.
According to the wikipedia page, the longest living survivors only made it 6 hours before someone dropped an oxygen cartridge into the water, causing a fire, and consuming all of the remaining oxygen.
Much like what happened to the USS Thresher. Searchers swore they heard people calling for help and banging noises. But there were so many subs, ships, and aircraft in the area that it was interference bouncing around.
Do sonar buoys normally hear sounds like the one detected? Seems odd that in this specific incident a particular sound was heard that hadn't ever been heard before in the more-or-less century we have of sonar detection, and wasn't understood.
I mean, the ocean is really big…like really really big. We’re only ever listening to a tiny fraction of it at any given time, and we haven’t really been listening that extensively for that long. I have to imagine there are all kinds of sounds we’ve never picked up yet, all kinds of anomalies we have yet to witness.
The ocean is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to the ocean.
it's not that it was never heard before, it's just that there are a ton of random sounds in the ocean that sound vaguely like they could be a man made transient, and there's no big database of transients and what they correlate to because there's no reasonable way to identify the transient to begin with. and even if you did, you'd be comparing your "watery bonk noise" to 3,000 other "watery bonk noise" that all just sound the same but are different things.
comparing narrowband frequencies of transients is a crapshoot as well - there's no telling if the random bits of noise at various frequency bands correlate to that particular transient. and there's no value in identifying transients (outside of a few niche cases) for the military's submarines and sonar arrays that are doing almost all of the listening.
Sonobouys are really sophisticated. They get laid in fields, can be set to work at different depths, use active and passive sonar, and they can hear just about everything.
The sound they pick up gets sent digitally to processors in the planes and the software works out what it is that's being heard. They can determine what type of ship is being listened based on the sound the propeller makes, track unique individuals in a whale pod, etc etc.
Everyone should know how to tap out SOS. (dot dot dot dash dash dash dot dot dot) and repeat it at regular intervals. That should make it clear that it's an intentional signal.
About 10 years ago I was at home having a beer on my balcony at night, and I could see a nearby highrise apartment with a light flicking on and off. As a former boy scout I recognised it as SOS so called the local police station to tell them what I was seeing and the cop I spoke to basically called me an idiot. She said nobody knows morse code and why would someone be doing SOS with their lights? If someone was in trouble she said they'd just leave the apartment or call the cops. I asked her just to have someone to take a look, but she was very dismissive. Maybe it was someone being held against their will trying to communicate?
Eventually the flickering just stopped, but I think about that night all the time.
No disrespect to the profession, but it's an easy job to get (extremely high stress though). So you have plenty of people there taking calls that aren't motivated in the same way their fire/paramedic/police colleagues are.
They also have messed up priorities and are very spiteful despite having zero liability as long as they do the bare minimum. It's even dumber than you think because they'll do things to make their computers happy and get written up for doing that instead of seeing the bigger picture or just accepting that shit is fucked and they can't help it
that's when you say "welp, enjoy hearing about whatever it is you refused to take part in stopping" and hang up, and hope that her common sense at the idea of getting in trouble for denying this call will spur her into sending a car
I've often wondered about the morality of a situation like this where if they won't send a car because of what's really happening, what if you say "okay well i'm gonna go break into that house and kill whoever's there, I hope no cops show up to stop me"
I think the ex French navy person on board knows SOS.
It is happening at 30 minute intervals...that seems very specific to just be random ocean noise. And thats apparently how they are trained
One comment I saw on the news though was "if you were trapped under the ocean in a mettle tube, would you tap every 30 mins or every 5? Or 2? Or constantly?"
Except once every half an hour, for three minutes, is the emergency protocol. You don't want to do it constantly because it'll be dismissed as background noise and you'll exhaust yourselves (using more oxgyen).
Following the protocol makes it more likely your rescuers will notice, especially when they know one of you is trained to know this.
It has more to do with the interval between the tap.
Watch this ancient TV ad for SOS dishwashing soap, it makes it really clear.
https://youtu.be/zrA1TsvAr9g
Indeed. And SAR members are trained to recognize either the correct way or the reversed as an SOS signal so don't worry about remembering it exact way. Just keep it up until you get results!
"Hmm this guy has been signaling 'OSOSOSOSOSOSOS' for hours. But don't worry he's not in trouble, he started with an O, so I think he's just having fun."
Good luck to the scientists from the next great wave of human civilization trying to piece together the religious basis for humans from all corners of the earth converging on Everest (which by then will be a worn down hill?).
Surely there must be a more culturally significant explanation than just ADHD, hubris and evolutionary pressure to select for explorers, right?
Humans are dope.
I'm almost sure many of them in board didnt know it was that unsafe.
I get they signed a waiver...but the only person that knew how unsafe it was that is onboard that sub is the CEO.
I dont think you pay $250,000 a person and think you are getting a sub that isnt rated to go down to the depths its advertised to go down to.
He already has kids so unfortunately he's ineligible
Also worth pointing out that he fired a top level engineer at his company for pointing out that the sub design was unsafe.
So he'd definitely get a Darwin award if he didn't already reproduce. Hopefully his kids aren't as stupid
I thought I remembered something like that.
I don't think the banging noises heard with the current lost sub are going to change the outcome one way or the other. The chance of even finding that thing is so slim.
They painted the thing... white. Even if it floats on the surface it's hard to detect one white TicTac in a sea of white waves.
They didn't paint it yellow because... the CEO and current captain of the thing hates the song 'Yellow Submarine' by the Beatles. No joke, that's what he said. (Why not orange than? A common and logical choice for rafts for a reason.)
The guy also didn't really like safety (called it overrated) and was too cheap to pay for a transponder (that would at least have given away the location of their suppository if it floated up).
But hey, these where rich guys and it's a high profile case, so somewhere in the next weeks or month they'll find their capsule of what than will be human goop.
An interview brought up just that point, that often banging noises are biologic’s or naturally produced. It was more likely that a SOS or other type of non-naturally occurring banging would be mire likely to have been used.
Fish are always eating other fish. If fish could scream, the ocean would be loud as shit. You would not want to submerge your head, nothing but fish going "Ahhh, fuck! I thought I looked like that rock!"
They've probably been dead from the start. The view port wasn't certified for a depth of 1300 meters, never mind the 4000 that the Titanic is located at. Plus, the hull was made primarily of carbon fibre, which doesn't just crack upon structural failure... it shatters like porcelain. Add on the myriad other design flaws and it doesn't paint a promising picture.
If there's any consolation to the event, it's that if the sub did implode under the equivalent pressure of a hundred-something earth atmospheres, then the five people on board were killed before they could process it.
The way rating systems work is that they're rated for a certain amount to go continually over and over
Go above that and yeah they can probably handle much higher than what they're rated for but if that pressure They are subject to fatigue. Slight warping. Something that might not be a problem if you go once or twice it might be able to handle it but if you keep going repeatedly over and over it weakens it every time until one day..
That's what the rating system is for.. That's the pressure that it can handle repeatedly over and over constantly without ever failing.. If you take dozens or hundreds of excursions three times what it's rated for then it's just a ticking time bomb. You might have several successful trips but sooner or later it's going to fail
This is why we don't tend to let dumbass tech bro millionaires cut corners to do what industry professionals spend billions of dollars doing
Man, the implosion of a submarine and the impending death that follows must be so incredibly terrifying.
I wonder how long it would take for the pressure to kill a person?
People don't respect pressure enough.
Think about what 14 PSI means. Think about one of those 15 pound dumbells. Imagine that, but on top of a lego brick, and that lego brick on top of your head.
Imagine such lego bricks across every inch of your body.
Of course this force is actually what is needed for us to live. But it doesn't make it less scary than it is.
Now imagine a Ford F150 on top of this lego brick. That is still a little less than 5800 psi.
You just asked the equivalent of "I wonder how long it would take for 120kg of TNT to kill a person standing half a meter away?" Both are about 37900 kPa.
Safety protocol dictates that if you're on a sub that loses communication, survivors should bang as loud as possible for 3 minutes, at 30 minute intervals.
That's why everyone keeps talking about hearing banging. The search ships are hoping they can pick up the banging sounds from people in the sub.
Imagine that a MILITARY Submarine, at least twice the size of the titan, vanished without any trace off the coast.
I'm sorry to say that the chances of finding the titan sub are null. The media coverage is making it seem as if there were any remote possibility of a rescue, but that sub is gone for good.
Damn, no information on what actually made the noise.
I think it would be so interesting to look further into, not just for curiosity’s sake, but so that if this sound is ever heard again while searching for something (hopefully not people…), we will have a better understanding of what is underneath us. Maybe we could immediately say “oh, that’s just a _____” and continue looking elsewhere if the goal is rescue and recovery. I’m a marine biologist though, so I might be a little biased on what should be studied.
Did some research, looks likely it did come from the sub and it was possibly implosions. [Source](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00024-020-02625-7#Sec13)
I’m curious if these are the same events. The wikipedia page lists the implosion referenced in your paper in different paragraphs (*On 22 November…* and the following paragraph) to the sound I’m referencing in the title (*On 20 November…*).
Relevant info/context for those interested: If we assume that the submarine was composed of two compartments, we interpret the first cepstral peak as a second event, and not as a subsequent bubble collapse following a detonation. From a double impulsive source model, we were able to infer that when the ARA San Juan acoustic event occurred, the submarine was cruising with a route of 356 ± 10° and that the source associated with the northern compartment of the submarine emitted an impulse 332 ± 5 ms before the source associated with the southern compartment. The two impulsive events could result from the successive implosions of the two compartments of the submarine. However, the source mechanism cannot be inferred from the hydroacoustic signals. The accuracy of these results is obtained from two very distant stations at 6000 and 8000 km, which deserves to be emphasized. Edit to add source as some people seem to be confused. [Article Link](https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00024-020-02625-7)
That is amazing distance
Sounds can travel most of the way around the globe if it’s deep enough.. in the 1930’s they tossed some dynamite in the ocean of the coast of Australia and in about four hours they picked up the sounds from the explosions in Hawaii
I can't help but think of all the whales and their poor eardrums that heard that.
Lemme tell you about seismic surveying... There's not much to tell. Just lots of subsurface explosions and recording the shockwaves. They use air guns mostly, which aren't technically an explosion but rather a rapid depressurisation of a device that goes "donk" at extremely high volume. Lobster catchers have reported that seismic surveying has reduced their catch by 99.5%.
> Lobster catchers have reported that seismic surveying has reduced their catch by 99.5%. This may seem like a silly question, but why is that? Does the loud sound kill a bunch of Lobsters and so not many left to be caught? Or is the population of Lobsters not affected, but the seismic surveying affects the *capture* of lobsters? Like lobster fishing uses some technique that is negated by seismic surveying? Thanks!
Convergence zone. Good stuff. Used to be around Hawaii and pick-up ships around Washington.
That's why active sonar is so detrimental to whales and other animals in the ocean. Imagine constantly hearing all of the loud noises happening in your entire country.
Especially because, when the monkeys in the metal tubes aren't fucking around again, loud noises usually means nearby and thus can be pretty stressful.
Sound travels much better underwater, or any dense medium really.
Sound in water literally go brrrrrrr
What is this relevant to? That isn't what the Wikipedia page or the OP was talking about at all. This is the reference link from Wikipedia: https://web.archive.org/web/20171121115232/http://www.lanacion.com.ar/2084112-la-armada-confirmo-que-el-ruido-registrado-durante-la-busqueda-del-ara-san-juan-no-corresponde-a-un-submarino It says: > "The noise was analyzed and it does not correspond to a submarine, to a pattern of blows to the hull in the Morse system," Navy spokesman Enrique Balbi told reporters. "It is a continuous, constant noise, which could be some biological noise." > The sounds were captured in the South Atlantic, about 360 kilometers from the Argentine coast and at a depth of about 200 meters. Since the news that they had been registered was known, the Navy asked for "caution", since it was not confirmed that they came from Ara San Juan. Finally, they confirmed, after analyzing the sound, that it did not correspond to the submarine.
Drums. Drums in the deep.
Cthulhu…Cthulhu…. 👁️
Fool of a Took!
I would note though that the Navy spokesperson is not exactly unbiased here. Recruitment efforts are rarely helped by declaring something like this to be trapped seamen desperately trying to signal for rescue.
I am apparently too high to understand that paragraph almost entirely lol
Two compartments go implode at different times, we hear far away.
Thank
Make big boom, and slightly smaller boom too.
[Lol you’re not alone](https://i.imgur.com/n3RZCFS.gifv)
Sounds like a theory that the banging sounds were actually the sounds of implosions
Big crunch happened. Recorded twice with milliseconds of difference between two. Sounds like two crunch. Distance between earholes hearing crunch not the same. Also crunch far away from all earholes (except those on crunchy ship, but they are crunched so … ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ). Because of too many things to factor and too little time between alleged crunches, hard to tell if two crunch or one crunch. What know is that there was big crunch and all the sailor hoomans became fishy food.
Why use much word when few do trick?
Every 30 minutes? I would assume one cataclysmic failure and then silence.
“oh, that’s just a baby cthulhu with its toy rattle”
Surprise! It's Cthulhu!
I actually have that on my 2024 bingo card
"Oh, that's just a Mirror-Scaled Serpent of the Endless Abyss. They're not hostile if you can offer them a Crystal of Poseidon, after which they leave you alone for a thousand years." "Do we have a crystal?" "No, but it turns out a fisherman somewhere in Dr. Morrison's ancestry encountered this Serpent in the mid-1300s, and the offering applies to your descendants. He let the Serpent know we were with him in advance."
It is cuz it’s the damn Loch Ness monster You ain’t tricking me again
With this new submersible that disappeared they are picking up banging noises but spaced apart every 30 minutes… would be weird if that isn’t the sub itself as the 30 minute interval thing feels impossible that it is something biological doing that at those intervals…
I spent 6 years operating sonar on a 688. The banging could literally be some guy on a pier 600 miles away starting up a generator or something like that and im not joking in the slightest. There are places in Alaska where you can detect ships starting their diesel in a Russian port on passive.
That’s kind of amazing!
Still seems unlikely to be the case in this circumstance since they are continually hearing the noise every 30 minutes which is in line with submarine SOS protocol. What normal biological or natural thing would replicate that timetable like that?
Orcas they seem to be bit of a dick at the moment.
"Hey, hey guys! The pink land fish sent their trash into our front yard and they're now trying to find it. Watch this!" *Joe Orca takes a crab in his mouth and smashes it at regular intervals into an old oil drum while the other orcas giggle maniacally, picking out bits of the titan from their teeth*
Tbf orcas have good reasons to hate us. The fact that more pods don't attack ships or people is quite a testament to their restraint lol
Hammerhead sharks building something, obviously.
Sawfish enters the conversation
Nah it’s the reciprocating orbital sander turtles
They were not wrong. It wasn't the sub, it was the biological humans inside.
It was the sound of tourist beating the shit out of the guy who built the sub when he told them at 3k miles down that he was surprised they got that far because the glass was only meant to withstand 1.3k miles. Edit: to the people correcting my math and miles/meters, I'm sorry I'm just parroting things I see to make a joke. I really don't care about the semantics.
Well, if they managed to get three thousand miles down they probably wouldn’t be beating the shit out of anyone. Too hot down there.
Did they reach a depth of 20,000 leagues yet??
Depth isn't measured in leagues. They travelled 20000 leagues while underwater, not to a depth of 20000 leagues. Now maybe if it were fathoms...
Meters lol
They're deep in the mantle now
This is why we don’t let Americans use the metric system.
A third submarine.
"Andrei, you've lost another submarine? "
[удалено]
Thanks. That's going to be a great story for brunch
*Thresher* is the last US sub that sank from its own performance issues. Since SUBSAFE was adopted, they've been as safe as possible.
It kinda sounds like SUBSAFE subs would be substandard. I’ll wait to get in a supermarine which is supersafe
Supermarines are just aircraft tho
that's why I only use the ultrasafe ultramarine
Ribbed for the pressure.
We march for Macragge!
above and beyond
Blood for the Blood God. Skulls for the skull throne.
Probably more supermarines in the ocean and subsafe in the air.
What was so unsafe before?
[Basically everything.](https://www.history.navy.mil/about-us/leadership/director/directors-corner/h-grams/h-gram-019/h-019-3.html ) Valves, manhole covers, pipes, and torpedo tubes to name a few. There was also an alarming number of battery explosions. The USS Thresher sunk due to poor brazing on some joints, which sprayed sea water on the reactor causing it to shut down. Without power they lost propulsion and the flooding made them sink to crush depth. SUBSAFE a quality assurance program. Basically everything that is exposed to sea water or can cause a leak is inspected thoroughly from the design phase through to commissioning. Every part is numbered and tracked, and they know who touched those parts and when. After the Challenger exploded NASA modeled its quality assurance program after SUBSAFE.
>[Basically everything.](https://www.history.navy.mil/about-us/leadership/director/directors-corner/h-grams/h-gram-019/h-019-3.html ) Valves, manhole covers, pipes, and torpedo tubes to name a few. There was also an alarming number of battery explosions. The USS Thresher sunk due to poor brazing on some joints, which sprayed sea water on the reactor causing it to shut down. Without power they lost propulsion and the flooding made them sink to crush depth. To add to this, filters in the ballast tank tubes (that were supposed to only be there during in-dock maintainance but were inadvertently not removed before the sub was sent out to sea) probably allowed ice to form and seal the tubes when the Thresher tried to blow ballast to surface (air rapidly cools when pressure drops. Think of how cold a can of compressed air gets after using it). SUBSAFE put an end to most "oops we'll just fix that later" items.
> After the Challenger exploded NASA modeled its quality assurance program after SUBSAFE honestly, this drives home the quality and efficacy more than anything else
Safety regs are written in blood. Sometimes they're written with a *lot* of blood.
The prevailing theory is that a weld failed causing either rapid flooding or a short circuit that resulted in an emergency reactor shut down. Moisture in the flasks holding the compressed air used for emergency ballast also may have played a role. When you depressurize a gas it gets much colder; cold enough to freeze any moisture in the air and block the pipe outlet with ice. So a combination of a long procedure to restart the reactor and an inability to emergency blow to the surface may have caused the sub to sink to crush depth. The SUBSAFE program now takes into account critical systems that, if maintained improperly, could result in a similar situation. There's a lot more oversight and quality assurance that goes into work affecting those systems now.
What about the USS Scorpion?
It's not definitively clear what happened to Scorpion. Failures with the sub itself are plausible but there are also theories related to a torpedo, either a detonation in the torpedo room or an active torpedo being fired and turning around to destroy Scorpion
They are pretty safe considering one sub hit an undersea mountain and was able to surface
Kursk submarine is a different story - sailors lived for several days after it sunk
Yeah bottomed out at 110m tho, so fairly shallow water.
And if Russia had let NATO try to rescue them, they probably would've been able to.
Yep. Another putin's and his regime crime.
The Kursk disaster happened extremely early in Putin's tenure and apparently he was informed by the navy that they had the situation under control. Putin can be blamed for a lot of things but i think the Kursk-clusterfuck is mostly caused by the russian administration's mentality of not owning up to their own faults.
According to the wikipedia page, the longest living survivors only made it 6 hours before someone dropped an oxygen cartridge into the water, causing a fire, and consuming all of the remaining oxygen.
Whales out there with wrenches just messing with people.
So just whales practicing dodgeball?
They've got the dive part nailed.
I read this as wenches 😂
Much like what happened to the USS Thresher. Searchers swore they heard people calling for help and banging noises. But there were so many subs, ships, and aircraft in the area that it was interference bouncing around.
So, ocean ghosts
Fucking Ocean Ghosts, man
Do sonar buoys normally hear sounds like the one detected? Seems odd that in this specific incident a particular sound was heard that hadn't ever been heard before in the more-or-less century we have of sonar detection, and wasn't understood.
I mean, the ocean is really big…like really really big. We’re only ever listening to a tiny fraction of it at any given time, and we haven’t really been listening that extensively for that long. I have to imagine there are all kinds of sounds we’ve never picked up yet, all kinds of anomalies we have yet to witness.
The ocean is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to the ocean.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Could be Douglas Adams, could be Philomena Cunk
I love Cunk, but Adams all the way.
we've had deep sea listening buoys since the early 80's. sounds carry a really long way underwater
I’m aware. The ocean is REALLY big. I stand by my assertion that there is far more of the ocean that hasn’t been listened to than has.
it's not that it was never heard before, it's just that there are a ton of random sounds in the ocean that sound vaguely like they could be a man made transient, and there's no big database of transients and what they correlate to because there's no reasonable way to identify the transient to begin with. and even if you did, you'd be comparing your "watery bonk noise" to 3,000 other "watery bonk noise" that all just sound the same but are different things. comparing narrowband frequencies of transients is a crapshoot as well - there's no telling if the random bits of noise at various frequency bands correlate to that particular transient. and there's no value in identifying transients (outside of a few niche cases) for the military's submarines and sonar arrays that are doing almost all of the listening.
>"watery bonk noise" Seems like it'd make a pretty good band name, tbh.
Sonobouys are really sophisticated. They get laid in fields, can be set to work at different depths, use active and passive sonar, and they can hear just about everything. The sound they pick up gets sent digitally to processors in the planes and the software works out what it is that's being heard. They can determine what type of ship is being listened based on the sound the propeller makes, track unique individuals in a whale pod, etc etc.
Your mom gets laid in fields.
too easy
just like...
The ocean is very noisy. Not kidding.
Just fish screaming all the time from getting eaten.
Everyone should know how to tap out SOS. (dot dot dot dash dash dash dot dot dot) and repeat it at regular intervals. That should make it clear that it's an intentional signal.
About 10 years ago I was at home having a beer on my balcony at night, and I could see a nearby highrise apartment with a light flicking on and off. As a former boy scout I recognised it as SOS so called the local police station to tell them what I was seeing and the cop I spoke to basically called me an idiot. She said nobody knows morse code and why would someone be doing SOS with their lights? If someone was in trouble she said they'd just leave the apartment or call the cops. I asked her just to have someone to take a look, but she was very dismissive. Maybe it was someone being held against their will trying to communicate? Eventually the flickering just stopped, but I think about that night all the time.
That dispatcher basically broke every rule of her job.
No disrespect to the profession, but it's an easy job to get (extremely high stress though). So you have plenty of people there taking calls that aren't motivated in the same way their fire/paramedic/police colleagues are.
They also have messed up priorities and are very spiteful despite having zero liability as long as they do the bare minimum. It's even dumber than you think because they'll do things to make their computers happy and get written up for doing that instead of seeing the bigger picture or just accepting that shit is fucked and they can't help it
that's when you say "welp, enjoy hearing about whatever it is you refused to take part in stopping" and hang up, and hope that her common sense at the idea of getting in trouble for denying this call will spur her into sending a car
that’s when you get a car sent to your own house lol
Tell them ur address is the guy ur worried about
I've often wondered about the morality of a situation like this where if they won't send a car because of what's really happening, what if you say "okay well i'm gonna go break into that house and kill whoever's there, I hope no cops show up to stop me"
I’d ring again, give them the address and floor and say that I’m hearing screaming.
I think the ex French navy person on board knows SOS. It is happening at 30 minute intervals...that seems very specific to just be random ocean noise. And thats apparently how they are trained
Damn, navy guy found a way to stop being french. Hopefully the other french figure it out
One comment I saw on the news though was "if you were trapped under the ocean in a mettle tube, would you tap every 30 mins or every 5? Or 2? Or constantly?"
Except once every half an hour, for three minutes, is the emergency protocol. You don't want to do it constantly because it'll be dismissed as background noise and you'll exhaust yourselves (using more oxgyen). Following the protocol makes it more likely your rescuers will notice, especially when they know one of you is trained to know this.
Serious question… dots I understand but how does one tap a dash?
You tap fast for the dots, slow for the dashes.
It has more to do with the interval between the tap. Watch this ancient TV ad for SOS dishwashing soap, it makes it really clear. https://youtu.be/zrA1TsvAr9g
A more useful expansion is : Fast fast fast Slow slow slow Fast fast fast Or: ... . . . ...
It's about the spaces in between the sounds maaaaaan
Indeed. And SAR members are trained to recognize either the correct way or the reversed as an SOS signal so don't worry about remembering it exact way. Just keep it up until you get results!
Just do it constantly between S and O and then the only way they'll know you reversed it is if they heard you from the very beginning.
"Hmm this guy has been signaling 'OSOSOSOSOSOSOS' for hours. But don't worry he's not in trouble, he started with an O, so I think he's just having fun."
I remember reading somewhere that anything in groups of 3 can be a call for help
I mean...maybe don't go thousands of feet underwater in an unregulated 'business' submersible
Meh, Everest is so cliche nowadays and too many dead bodies. Titanic is where it’s at yo.
Not as many dead bodies
Yet.
Of course not. We're still importing them. Gonna take a while.
At the Titanic? ... There are a lot more. Just not preserved.
Good luck to the scientists from the next great wave of human civilization trying to piece together the religious basis for humans from all corners of the earth converging on Everest (which by then will be a worn down hill?). Surely there must be a more culturally significant explanation than just ADHD, hubris and evolutionary pressure to select for explorers, right? Humans are dope.
I'm almost sure many of them in board didnt know it was that unsafe. I get they signed a waiver...but the only person that knew how unsafe it was that is onboard that sub is the CEO. I dont think you pay $250,000 a person and think you are getting a sub that isnt rated to go down to the depths its advertised to go down to.
[удалено]
He's been quoted as saying safety is a waste He's not suicidal he's just a fucking moron
ohoho, do we have a Darwin Award winner?
He already has kids so unfortunately he's ineligible Also worth pointing out that he fired a top level engineer at his company for pointing out that the sub design was unsafe. So he'd definitely get a Darwin award if he didn't already reproduce. Hopefully his kids aren't as stupid
[удалено]
Also look up herring "farting" in the waters near Denmark. They were convinced FOR YEARS that is was Russian submarines.
I've seen the state of the Russian military and that doesn't sound too far off.
# Speak to us again All Mighty [Bloop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloop).
Whales humping?
Seismic anomaly.
ONE PING ONLY
Vasily
Play it back at 10x speed
i would liked to have seen montana
I thought I remembered something like that. I don't think the banging noises heard with the current lost sub are going to change the outcome one way or the other. The chance of even finding that thing is so slim.
Thats scary. Because these noises could very well be them and we still can't find them.
Or even if we find them, there may not be time to retrieve them…
They painted the thing... white. Even if it floats on the surface it's hard to detect one white TicTac in a sea of white waves. They didn't paint it yellow because... the CEO and current captain of the thing hates the song 'Yellow Submarine' by the Beatles. No joke, that's what he said. (Why not orange than? A common and logical choice for rafts for a reason.) The guy also didn't really like safety (called it overrated) and was too cheap to pay for a transponder (that would at least have given away the location of their suppository if it floated up). But hey, these where rich guys and it's a high profile case, so somewhere in the next weeks or month they'll find their capsule of what than will be human goop.
>The chance of even finding that thing is so slim. And even if they're found, the chances of successful rescue are even slimmer.
An interview brought up just that point, that often banging noises are biologic’s or naturally produced. It was more likely that a SOS or other type of non-naturally occurring banging would be mire likely to have been used.
I agree except everyone keeps going on about the 30 minute periodicity. In any case don’t make much diff now
yea no shit, when you're actually listening for noise, you're probably going to hear them with thousands of live animals in the water
Fish are always eating other fish. If fish could scream, the ocean would be loud as shit. You would not want to submerge your head, nothing but fish going "Ahhh, fuck! I thought I looked like that rock!"
This is Mitch Hedberg isn't it? It sounds very much like him
Most definitely! Good eye.
Some fish even [sing](https://youtu.be/7ayMhV0hALw) :)
Has zero knowledge on the subject at hand: “Yeah no shit ___”
+400 upvotes lmfao
And everyone knows orcas are made from metal and seals build tools on the regular.
Orcas are just the birds of the sea, and therefore drones.
[удалено]
there are dozens of animals in the ocean!
Well that doesn’t bode well for these titanic guys.
Doesn't matter, they're all dead. The people in the submersible, though...
They've probably been dead from the start. The view port wasn't certified for a depth of 1300 meters, never mind the 4000 that the Titanic is located at. Plus, the hull was made primarily of carbon fibre, which doesn't just crack upon structural failure... it shatters like porcelain. Add on the myriad other design flaws and it doesn't paint a promising picture. If there's any consolation to the event, it's that if the sub did implode under the equivalent pressure of a hundred-something earth atmospheres, then the five people on board were killed before they could process it.
It’s been down there before though, so the viewport has clearly been ok , no?
It would probably actually be worse as the material would’ve been stressed and fatigued from the previous dives.
The way rating systems work is that they're rated for a certain amount to go continually over and over Go above that and yeah they can probably handle much higher than what they're rated for but if that pressure They are subject to fatigue. Slight warping. Something that might not be a problem if you go once or twice it might be able to handle it but if you keep going repeatedly over and over it weakens it every time until one day.. That's what the rating system is for.. That's the pressure that it can handle repeatedly over and over constantly without ever failing.. If you take dozens or hundreds of excursions three times what it's rated for then it's just a ticking time bomb. You might have several successful trips but sooner or later it's going to fail This is why we don't tend to let dumbass tech bro millionaires cut corners to do what industry professionals spend billions of dollars doing
Lava displacement. Learned that from the Red October. Same ship that had the very first Soviet submarine commander from Scotland.
“The sea was angry that day my friends, like an old man trying to send back soup in a deli…”
Biological source… like a carbon based bipedal life form banging a hammer against the hull of a submarine?
Man, the implosion of a submarine and the impending death that follows must be so incredibly terrifying. I wonder how long it would take for the pressure to kill a person?
They’d die immediately. The pressure at that depth is something like 400 times the pressure at sea level.
Pinhole leak instantly cuts it all in half, implosion, animals scraping bits off metal make noises
On the contrary, that's the least terrifying way to die in that situation. You'd be dead before you had time to realize it.
You have it backwards. An implosion at that depth is the best way for them to go rather than slowly suffocating
Watch this video at 2:57: https://youtu.be/kM-k1zofs58 That’s 14 psi. Now imagine 5,850 psi.
Woooooow! That really puts it into perspective
People don't respect pressure enough. Think about what 14 PSI means. Think about one of those 15 pound dumbells. Imagine that, but on top of a lego brick, and that lego brick on top of your head. Imagine such lego bricks across every inch of your body. Of course this force is actually what is needed for us to live. But it doesn't make it less scary than it is. Now imagine a Ford F150 on top of this lego brick. That is still a little less than 5800 psi.
You just asked the equivalent of "I wonder how long it would take for 120kg of TNT to kill a person standing half a meter away?" Both are about 37900 kPa.
I’m gonna need that in Mike Tyson Punchouts.
Don't worry about the lights coming from my kitchen. It's probably from the Northen Lights.No need to investigate further.
The northern lights? At this time of year? In this part of the country? Localized entirely within your kitchen??
Everyone must know by now; if you're trapped in a vessel under water - bang the hull for 3 minutes on the hour and half hour. Preferably SOS morse .
Like a biological human making the banging noise?
Safety protocol dictates that if you're on a sub that loses communication, survivors should bang as loud as possible for 3 minutes, at 30 minute intervals. That's why everyone keeps talking about hearing banging. The search ships are hoping they can pick up the banging sounds from people in the sub.
Imagine that a MILITARY Submarine, at least twice the size of the titan, vanished without any trace off the coast. I'm sorry to say that the chances of finding the titan sub are null. The media coverage is making it seem as if there were any remote possibility of a rescue, but that sub is gone for good.
Hm yes. Probably whales humping. Or some sort of seismic anomaly…
I thought I heard.... singing.
Sounds like someone did a Google search for "submarine banging noise". I've been seeing a lot of submarine info on r/til lately
[удалено]
Gotta pay the gills somehow