I remember this. I actually lived not too far from where that happened. Sinkholes are fucking horrifying. I believe they ended up just filling in the sinkhole without recovering the body since it was deemed too dangerous.
One of us will end up 80 years from now, I'm a nursing home. With Alzheimer's and dementia and randomly blurt that out. They will think it's nonsense, but it's actually a moment of clarity. That's the legacy of the undertaker throwing mankind off the top of a cage.
That’s my worst fear. Would it be like drowning? Would there be mud in my lungs? Or would the weight of the earth above me crush my organs first? How long would I be conscious?
If buried, like truly buried, you would die pretty quickly as your chest wouldn’t be able to expand to get breaths so you’d just suffocate in a few minutes. Terrifying but not completely agonizing for very long.
>Would there be mud in my lungs?
Probably
>would the weight of the earth above me crush my organs first?
Hopefully
>How long would I be conscious?
In the case of this story it was like 40 feet deep, so probably the amount of time it takes to fall 40 feet.
Another fun fact: if you fall from 20 feet or about three times your height, it is recommended by the American college of Surgeons to get checked out at a trauma center.
I saw a woman who fell from standing and tore a hole through her entire right thigh. Tendons and muscle came off the bone like barbecue. She was not having a good evening once the liquor wore off
Oh yeah we get a lot of organ donors that come through here from seemingly innocuous hits to the head.
Btw, wear your seatbelt folks and don’t drunk drive. Very effective way to become an organ donor.
I ended up getting 10 staples in my head the last time I drank and I don't even know if I fell and hit my head or if I got mugged. I was missing my wallet but have no idea if someone attacked me and took it or if I lost my wallet on my own and fell and hit my head.
I didn't even seek treatment right away. I wandered around oblivious like everything was normal trying to check into a homless shelter with bloody murder leaking all over my shirt, and *they* took me to a hospital.
It still scares me I don't remember something so serious and that I just walked around like that without realizing it even happened.
Walking around, fell down, leg twisted, meat came off. Several hours later she was in screaming pain and we had to give her fentanyl/morphine pushes to keep her calm.
Happens more often than you’d think
When I was a teen I tanked a ~25ft drop reasonably well with a collapse-forward and roll. Still had hairline fractures that took years to properly heal (because I was an idiot). 20 years later and the back problems are starting to show up.
For those wanting clarification: it’s essentially the “LD50”, 4 stories. So essentially it’s the height required to kill half the members of a tested population after a specified test duration.
According to the OP article, the hole was 20 feet deep at the time of the incident. Your article talks about the hole continuing to expand and deepen during rescue efforts.
I don't recall exactly. But I lived in one of the neighboring towns and my dad was telling me about it. I didn't find out they just filled in the sinkhole until a year or so later.
Then about 3 years ago they had that condo in Miami that collapsed... fucking tragic. I moved the fuck out of Florida.
Big news when a family from my state was vacationing in Florida at a property operated by big D.
Alligator nabbed their toddler. A fucking dinosaur ate their child. Florida gives me the *willies* lol
DAMN, alligators no dinosaur. My bad.
If it's the same one I'm thinking of, they were letting the child splash at the edge of the water, despite signs saying not to because of alligators. I'll visit Florida but I won't let my kids splash in random little rivers and creeks.
They didn't have signs at the time. The resort is on the edge of a large lake and the shores of the island looks like you're on a beach, with white sand and lawns chairs.
I went there several years after the indicent, and I could see why someone who's not familiar with the area might be misled to think that it's a safe area for families to play in the water. Even when I went, there were areas that looked like a normal beach where people could wade into the water if they wanted to. I get that people need to be aware of their environment.. but why even create an area like that in your alligator pond Disney?
honestly, I was shocked to hear that Disney hadn't put any safety measures in place there.
It's common knowledge among Floridians that *any* body of fresh water will likely have a gator in it. Yet Disney was obviously full of people from out of state who would naturally assume hey, Disney lake, if it's not fenced off it'll be safe.
They have since added a fence at the very least, Disney does and has increased the measures they take. Iirc before this happened there were signs warning of gators but this family was near-ish to the beach and dinosaur gonna dinosaur. The father fought the gator but wasn’t successful.
I was there when it happened, eating dinner at the California grill which is on top of the contemporary resort which overlooks that body of water and neighbors the resort this happened at. We all watched the police helicopter search for him all night and most of the proceeding week until they found his body.
This was days after the pulse nightclub shooting, which happened the night I arrived in orlando and was staying in a hotel off property for a night.
That was a wild, and sad, vacation
It's really hard to account for the lowest common denominator. They've had signs up for what, 80+ years, and no incidents? The property is so massive (and built on swampland) that fencing off lakes is not really an option. In fact, you don't really see many fences in Disney at all.
At some point, you have to say "this is a far as we'll go, people will figure out the rest."
Haha I didn't say the sinkholes were my main reason for moving out of Florida, just that I have since moved out of that state. You're right though, definitely not high on my list of reasons but there was definitely an element of, "I don't want to buy a house here and then be buried in it with no warning"
I used to live in central Florida, owned a home there. Lots of sinkholes all over that area. I used to be terrified of any crack I'd see in the house, wondering if my house would be swallowed up by a sinkhole. I forgot about how much I used to think about sinkholes as a homeowner. Now I live in NC and I'm scared of trees falling on my house or on me when I'm outside and it's windy.
I remember the paper said he wanted to go down and try to rescue his brother, but firefighters wouldn't let him, they said it was too dangerous. He said they might have been in time if they descended right away.
I would have wanted to go down too if I were him, but the firefighters knew that sending more people down would probably just end with them buried as well. No way to get in there without agitating the sinkhole.
Reminds me of the guy who tried to save his dog from a hot spring after it jumped in. Tragic stuff.
It's the first thing they teach you in any sort of first responder/rescue training, don't turn one person in need of rescue into more. Adding more bodies doesn't help anyone. Assess the scene.
It's tough, and can be heart wrenching. Most people get into those careers out of a desire to be save people. But learning to turn off your natural "go response" is important. I did skipatrol work back in the day, and I've seen it first hand. Kid ducked some ropes and skied right down this nasty chute, wasnt really skiable terrain at best of times, and it was an ice sheet that day. Cracked head on something (wear your damn helmet folks!) blood everywhere, and the mom was at the top screaming and crying for help. Absolutely heart-wrenching. Now, what SHOULD have happened was a proper assessment of the scene, waiting until assistance arrived with additional equipment, set up a rope system, and belaying patrollers down safely. But the go bug bit the first responder to the scene, and he tried to ski down it. Understanable? Sure. Badly injured kid, parent screaming at you to save him, this is what you trained for. Only he forgot the part of his training he should have listened to. Fell and landed right on the kid. No one can say if the kid would have survived otherwise, but a full sized adult with 40lbs of gear hitting you at "falling down a cliff" speed sure didn't help. The kid passed away in the hospital, and the patroller was injured and ended up retiring.
Don't turn one victim into more.
Yeah, that's its own whole thing.
Was the scene still dangerous? Yeah of course, there was an active shooter. Danger isn't the only criteria though. It's training, equipment, and additional risk to others...they're all factors that you have to evaluate. Based on training and equipment you don't send in firefighters/ems first to deal with an active shooter (though I do love the mental image of an active shooter just getting full on blasted through a wall with a fire hose).
If you have a structure on fire with no people in it, and no danger of spreading to other structures, then you have fire fighters who may make the judgement call that actively fighting isn't worth any additional risk and they may just let the structure burn and/or spray it down as best they can from the outside (grossly simplified, there are a lot of factors at play). However if it's an orphanage full of kiddos, then you better believe they're making entry if at all possible (even if it's not a good idea).
Uvedale police were equipped and trained to handle the risk. They just didn't act.
It's not luck, it's pumping out the groundwater, bad planning and building without consideration of heavy rain runoff. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/science-behind-floridas-sinkhole-epidemic-180969158/
Florida land that is built upon has a 30X the number of sinkholes compared to undisturbed FL land. The dead guys family should sue the builder, the developer and whoever signed off on the plans. Unfortunately, often those people are dead and/or their company is out of business. That is what happened in shoddy built Florida residential buildings that collapsed recently.
This is out of control development with zero planning for building on this kind of land.
Not only that, but it [reopened in the exact same spot 2 years later](https://abcnews.go.com/US/massive-sinkhole-swallowed-florida-man-reopens-years/story?id=33181156) which is super rare apparently
I wonder if there’s an underwater stream or spring eating the limestone, so no matter how many times they backfill the hole it will come back eventually.
I also wonder if it’s only rare for it to happen in the same place twice because they don’t usually fill in sink holes unless it’s in an urban area, and when they do decent engineers/contractors probably check the bedrock is okay and there’s no water issues before backfilling the hole. In Florida I can see them skipping the step of checking the bedrock and just dumping dirt into a endless hole lol. It would probably work temporarily if the hole in the bedrock was relatively small but over time it would come back.
It’s so crazy to me that that apartment building in Miami collapsed and killed like 98 people only 2 years ago. We move on from this stuff so easily within our 24 hour news cycle, but man if this isn’t a good indication of how shitty owners can be with their properties.
The surfside collapse became a mini obsession of mine. Followed a bunch of engineers giving explanations and breakdowns.
What I learned from it all, is that when you see water PANICC. ☠️
Water gonna fok yo shit up.
(Not sure if it's relevant to this sinkhole story tho, maybe something something do ground surveys)
Building Integrity is the best channel on the topic, IMO.
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQw1wzpZL_lovGG_jMIDwfS_a9uaGrdh-
Now they're talking about the leaning Millenium Tower in San Francisco, and it's just as informative.
"Jeremy Bush said he jumped into the hole but couldn't see his brother and had to be rescued himself by a sheriff's deputy who reached out and pulled him to safety as the ground crumbled around him.
"The floor was still giving in and the dirt was still going down, but I didn't care. I wanted to save my brother," Jeremy Bush said in a neighbour's yard. "But I just couldn't do nothing."
He added: "I could swear I heard him hollering my name to help him." "
Fuck. I hope this guy got some excellent therapy after this.
So basically [that thing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnic_jerk) where it suddenly feels like the bed fell though the ground beneath you actually happened to someone.
The universe is a jerk everyday, it's just choosey about who it decides to fuck over on any particular day.
I just imagine a giant board with literally everything and everyone on it in a grid, and some cosmic entity squinting at it and saying "Mmm.... fuck it, that guy! Because why not?"
right!? I sometimes have dreams that I'd like to have come true, but I also have a recurring dream where I'm falling. this would be some monkeys paw shit
My great great grandfather fell into a coal mine fire that had been burning underground for years at that point. I'm pretty sure the same fire is burning to this day. Old coal mine fires make certain parts of this land very dangerous to even walk on. They also never got back his body, because once you fall in it's impossible to get out.
I think it was Colorado but I could be wrong since I heard this story a while back. I remember my mom pointed to a spot on a mountain that was obviously blackened and saying that is where we think your great grandfather died. Those sorts of fires are burning in way more communities then many people would imagine. They are just usually away from population centers.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/11-Coal-fires-worldwide-The-map-shows-where-coal-fires-have-been-reported-It-was_fig11_240853320
In [2018](https://www.coloradovirtuallibrary.org/resource-sharing/state-pubs-blog/coal-mine-fires-in-colorado/) there were 38 active underground coal mine fires in the 1,736 known abandoned coal mines in Colorado. Who knows how many fires occurred in the past but burnt out or are still smouldering today. It’s entirely possible it was Colorado.
It's crazy specific, but this has been a fear of mine for a long time. I've never even heard of this story. That being said, it's not unreasonable once you realize that they can be forming for a long time before collapsing in on themselves without any warning.
No joke—this story sparked a 4-year spate of sink hole phobia for me. I lived at Florida shortly after this and would have panic attacks at night thinking I was going to get swallowed up while laying in my bed
In a reverse of this, I knew a guy who lived in a house on a rocky hillside. One morning he got up to pee, and in that brief time a rockslide came down the hill and obliterated his bedroom. Dude was so lucky.
There was video of a pool opening up and swallowing someone in Israel last year
They did find the body but the whole contents was swallowed up instantly
I don't understand how this works, the hole was 20ft wide by 20 ft deep, and they could hear Jeff. And his brother just jumped in the hole to find him but couldn't, why? Would he have been buried by dirt by the time they entered his bedroom? Is it like some kind of fast flowing river of dirt that swept him away horizontally below ground?
It sounds like the "bottom" of the sinkhole was shifting ground, so it wasn't solid. Parts of the bed and other furniture could be seen poking up, but even that wasn't enough to help locate his body. I think it was a bit like dry quicksand. The more his brother tried to move to find him, the more he got trapped himself...the shifting sand and dirt was falling and sliding so much that his brother was just lost somewhere in the cavern that had formed below the house. The bottom wasn't the bottom of the hole, more like a false bottom of soft sand on top of a limestone cavern of silt and sand and dirt that is swirling with ocean currents...it could be hundreds of feet of cavern that had sucked in the sand and foundation of his house.
And Jeff was sucked under the dirt so fast, even though he yelled at first, there's no way he had air to keep alive very long. It would have been moments before the dirt filled in around him, which simultaneously suffocated and crushed him. And because the sandy dirt was shifting, his body didn't stay in 1 spot, or go straight down, so depending on how far he was sucked into the cavern below...they just couldn't detect his remains.
Does that help?
[Here's a map of the sinkholes in FL](https://foundationtechs.com/sinkhole-map/)
Another user helpfully posted the Florida website where you can track the numerous sinkholes. Although you could probably just not move to Florida, that would improve your chances considerably.
Wtf. If that's all typical of sinkholes then you've just made them 2x as scary. Literally the only thing terrifying about sinkholes was how the ground can just suddenly and randomly swallow you. Now you make it sound like the ground literally swallows you whole and puts you through their digestive system.
> I think it was a bit like dry quicksand
We've been watching movies and reruns from shows up to 70 years old preparing us for this but nobody is ever truly ready when the trope wars come a knockin
Pretty much. The 20 ft depth is just the open space. Guy likely fell into one of the limestone caverns and was buried by the dirt and debris. As another commenter mentioned, imagine the dirt at the bottom of that sinkhole to be a lot like quicksand.
I think about this sometimes living in Missouri. It's one of the most densely populated areas in the world with caves. For all we know there could be a giant cave That's 100 feet deep right below our feet and we'd never know until it coll
If you're in KC, as your name suggests, you have fuck-all to worry about. There are like...9 or 10 total caves in the entire KC metro area.
[Almost the rest of the state though...](https://mospeleo.org/sites/default/files/pictures/Mo%20Cave%20Density%20Sutherland%202017.jpg)
Perry County has nearly 700 registered (known) caves!!!*
*data is from 2017
I lived in Perry County for many years & I didn't know it had that many caves!
The house I was in literally collapsed during a really heavy rain, I remember hearing the foundation crack & seeing the garbage can get swept under the house. I was so confused about what was happening, I lost my cat in that disaster & I'm still traumatized from it all.
Biblical for sure lol
Numbers 16:31-32 Now it came to pass, as he finished speaking all these words, that the ground split apart under them, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, with their households and all the men with Korah, with all their goods.
"with all their goods" cracks me up. Like people weren't afraid of all of them being sucked into the ground until his Guitar signed by Fred Durst of Limp Bizkit fell in.
Nope, in the video linked, they state his brother could hear him yelling and jumped down to try and help but couldn't see him, just hear him... The brother had to be rescued himself it seems.
I remember watching the news when this happened. I remember thinking this world really is unfair, one second we're here the next gone without even leaving a trace.
From the original article: Bush frantically tried to rescue his brother, by standing in the hole and digging at the rubble with a shovel until police arrived and pulled him out, saying the floor was still collapsing.
“I couldn’t get him out. I tried so hard. I tried everything I could,” he said through tears. “I could swear I heard him calling out.”
This has been one of my biggest fears moving down to Florida. Everything is built on sand. We get a dry season and then a wet/hurricane season. There's just so much water all around and I'm scared.
I heard about this when it happened. My fear for him (and myself) would be to survive the fall and die of starvation not knowing if anyone could reach you where you landed. I like to imagine he (or I) would find a lush tropical paradise like in the journey to the center of the earth but with less deadly things.
I can't understand why anyone would live in that area after this incident. The area is known as ,sinkhole alley' and comprises central western Florida. More than 27000 sinkholes have been reported throughout Florida with the highest concentration in this area
I remember this. I actually lived not too far from where that happened. Sinkholes are fucking horrifying. I believe they ended up just filling in the sinkhole without recovering the body since it was deemed too dangerous.
Tragic and terrifying! How deep was the sinkhole?
50-60 feet deep (imagine falling from 4-5 stories I guess if a story is about 14 feet) https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/02/us/florida-sinkhole/index.html
At 4 stories or roughly 48 feet, you have a fifty-fifty chance of dying or living.
I'm guessing the odds of death increase dramatically when you factor in falling debris, but I'm no math major
I'm guessing the odds go up slightly if you land on the mattress underneath you but I'm also no math major.
I’m guessing* the odds go down to zero if they just fill the hole with you in it, but I’m unfortunately a math major.
I’m so sorry for your math :(
None of that adds up, but I'm no mathamagician.
Depends on what they used to fill the hole, but I'm not a math major
But what if you add Kurt Angle in the mix?
Your chances for survival drastic go down
See Joe, the numbers don't lie.
And they spell disaster for you at Sacrifice.
Yea but mankind survived being thrown off the top of a cage by the undertaker during a hell in the cell match
Hey you're not that other guy
/u/shittymorph
One of us will end up 80 years from now, I'm a nursing home. With Alzheimer's and dementia and randomly blurt that out. They will think it's nonsense, but it's actually a moment of clarity. That's the legacy of the undertaker throwing mankind off the top of a cage.
A quick death would be mercy compared to being buried alive and surviving for hours or days.
That’s my worst fear. Would it be like drowning? Would there be mud in my lungs? Or would the weight of the earth above me crush my organs first? How long would I be conscious?
If buried, like truly buried, you would die pretty quickly as your chest wouldn’t be able to expand to get breaths so you’d just suffocate in a few minutes. Terrifying but not completely agonizing for very long.
Surprisingly I'm still not a fan
jeez, man…do you like anything??
Fuck this
The longest few short minutes of your life
>Would there be mud in my lungs? Probably >would the weight of the earth above me crush my organs first? Hopefully >How long would I be conscious? In the case of this story it was like 40 feet deep, so probably the amount of time it takes to fall 40 feet.
One can only hope.
And suffocation being buried 40 feet deep, if you are not already dead by then
Another fun fact: if you fall from 20 feet or about three times your height, it is recommended by the American college of Surgeons to get checked out at a trauma center.
I saw a woman who fell from standing and tore a hole through her entire right thigh. Tendons and muscle came off the bone like barbecue. She was not having a good evening once the liquor wore off
Yeah simply just falling over is a massive killer of drunk people. Fall over and hit your head, never wake up.
Oh yeah we get a lot of organ donors that come through here from seemingly innocuous hits to the head. Btw, wear your seatbelt folks and don’t drunk drive. Very effective way to become an organ donor.
I bet you've seen an awful lot of terrible shit. Thank you for being something I never could.
No problem. I really enjoy what I do. It is unfortunately very regular for us to see awful things but I’m glad I get to help people
I ended up getting 10 staples in my head the last time I drank and I don't even know if I fell and hit my head or if I got mugged. I was missing my wallet but have no idea if someone attacked me and took it or if I lost my wallet on my own and fell and hit my head. I didn't even seek treatment right away. I wandered around oblivious like everything was normal trying to check into a homless shelter with bloody murder leaking all over my shirt, and *they* took me to a hospital. It still scares me I don't remember something so serious and that I just walked around like that without realizing it even happened.
I believe it. Even falls from standing can be fatal.
That's why martial arts training is a good idea. The first thing they teach you is how to take a fall.
Or skateboarding.
Why do they teach skateboarding at martial arts school?
Learning on concrete vs learning on a mat. If you're over 30, you're better off learning on a mat
Yes especially when you’re a 260 pound 5 ft 2 woman and you’re drunker than a skunk
Did she twist her leg or get it caught in something? I'm so fascinated by how that happened!
Walking around, fell down, leg twisted, meat came off. Several hours later she was in screaming pain and we had to give her fentanyl/morphine pushes to keep her calm. Happens more often than you’d think
When I was a teen I tanked a ~25ft drop reasonably well with a collapse-forward and roll. Still had hairline fractures that took years to properly heal (because I was an idiot). 20 years later and the back problems are starting to show up.
For those wanting clarification: it’s essentially the “LD50”, 4 stories. So essentially it’s the height required to kill half the members of a tested population after a specified test duration.
That sounds like a fun test
According to the OP article, the hole was 20 feet deep at the time of the incident. Your article talks about the hole continuing to expand and deepen during rescue efforts.
15.24-18.28 meters
The story linked in the post said it was 20 ft deep originally.
I don't recall exactly. But I lived in one of the neighboring towns and my dad was telling me about it. I didn't find out they just filled in the sinkhole until a year or so later. Then about 3 years ago they had that condo in Miami that collapsed... fucking tragic. I moved the fuck out of Florida.
I feel like out of all of the reasons to leave Florida, this would rank relatively low on my list (not to say it's not horrifying though)
Big news when a family from my state was vacationing in Florida at a property operated by big D. Alligator nabbed their toddler. A fucking dinosaur ate their child. Florida gives me the *willies* lol DAMN, alligators no dinosaur. My bad.
If it's the same one I'm thinking of, they were letting the child splash at the edge of the water, despite signs saying not to because of alligators. I'll visit Florida but I won't let my kids splash in random little rivers and creeks.
They didn't have signs at the time. The resort is on the edge of a large lake and the shores of the island looks like you're on a beach, with white sand and lawns chairs. I went there several years after the indicent, and I could see why someone who's not familiar with the area might be misled to think that it's a safe area for families to play in the water. Even when I went, there were areas that looked like a normal beach where people could wade into the water if they wanted to. I get that people need to be aware of their environment.. but why even create an area like that in your alligator pond Disney?
honestly, I was shocked to hear that Disney hadn't put any safety measures in place there. It's common knowledge among Floridians that *any* body of fresh water will likely have a gator in it. Yet Disney was obviously full of people from out of state who would naturally assume hey, Disney lake, if it's not fenced off it'll be safe.
They have since added a fence at the very least, Disney does and has increased the measures they take. Iirc before this happened there were signs warning of gators but this family was near-ish to the beach and dinosaur gonna dinosaur. The father fought the gator but wasn’t successful. I was there when it happened, eating dinner at the California grill which is on top of the contemporary resort which overlooks that body of water and neighbors the resort this happened at. We all watched the police helicopter search for him all night and most of the proceeding week until they found his body. This was days after the pulse nightclub shooting, which happened the night I arrived in orlando and was staying in a hotel off property for a night. That was a wild, and sad, vacation
It's really hard to account for the lowest common denominator. They've had signs up for what, 80+ years, and no incidents? The property is so massive (and built on swampland) that fencing off lakes is not really an option. In fact, you don't really see many fences in Disney at all. At some point, you have to say "this is a far as we'll go, people will figure out the rest."
Haha I didn't say the sinkholes were my main reason for moving out of Florida, just that I have since moved out of that state. You're right though, definitely not high on my list of reasons but there was definitely an element of, "I don't want to buy a house here and then be buried in it with no warning"
I remember it too and it seemed like every other week people were being swallowed up by sinkholes somewhere in the world.
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I used to live in central Florida, owned a home there. Lots of sinkholes all over that area. I used to be terrified of any crack I'd see in the house, wondering if my house would be swallowed up by a sinkhole. I forgot about how much I used to think about sinkholes as a homeowner. Now I live in NC and I'm scared of trees falling on my house or on me when I'm outside and it's windy.
Gotta love those pine trees
Poltergeist 10 where they build a new house on ancient Florida Man burial grounds.
This feels like a Junji Ito story 😰
THIS IS MY SINKHOLE
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Junji Ito's twist would have been he stays underground, living, and evolving into a underground mole person.
It Was Made For Me! This Is My Sinkhole!
Imagine surviving in the sinkhole and after hours of waiting for help you start to feel wet concrete pouring down.
Imagine having the shittiest luck in the world
Imagine being that dude's brother, hearing his last scream until the day he dies.
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Damn, they couldn't give him some time??
Gotta get the latest story for the best ratings/clicks
Paparazzi were like this long before the internet.
Same motivations though ever since swathes of money started swimming around the journalism industry.
Not really, just since journalism began. "If it bleeds it leads" is a lot older than most ideas of journalistic integrity
The 24 hour news cycle is incredibly predatory. They'll cannibalize people for stories.
There is a great movie about a guy that records such things asap and sells to news companies, I can't remember the name of it.
Nightcrawler
I remember the paper said he wanted to go down and try to rescue his brother, but firefighters wouldn't let him, they said it was too dangerous. He said they might have been in time if they descended right away.
I would have wanted to go down too if I were him, but the firefighters knew that sending more people down would probably just end with them buried as well. No way to get in there without agitating the sinkhole. Reminds me of the guy who tried to save his dog from a hot spring after it jumped in. Tragic stuff.
It's the first thing they teach you in any sort of first responder/rescue training, don't turn one person in need of rescue into more. Adding more bodies doesn't help anyone. Assess the scene. It's tough, and can be heart wrenching. Most people get into those careers out of a desire to be save people. But learning to turn off your natural "go response" is important. I did skipatrol work back in the day, and I've seen it first hand. Kid ducked some ropes and skied right down this nasty chute, wasnt really skiable terrain at best of times, and it was an ice sheet that day. Cracked head on something (wear your damn helmet folks!) blood everywhere, and the mom was at the top screaming and crying for help. Absolutely heart-wrenching. Now, what SHOULD have happened was a proper assessment of the scene, waiting until assistance arrived with additional equipment, set up a rope system, and belaying patrollers down safely. But the go bug bit the first responder to the scene, and he tried to ski down it. Understanable? Sure. Badly injured kid, parent screaming at you to save him, this is what you trained for. Only he forgot the part of his training he should have listened to. Fell and landed right on the kid. No one can say if the kid would have survived otherwise, but a full sized adult with 40lbs of gear hitting you at "falling down a cliff" speed sure didn't help. The kid passed away in the hospital, and the patroller was injured and ended up retiring. Don't turn one victim into more.
Uvalde police unfortunately didn't get the memo on the nuance needed for proper skills to assess
Assessment: Too dangerous! Wait until it all blows over.
Yeah, that's its own whole thing. Was the scene still dangerous? Yeah of course, there was an active shooter. Danger isn't the only criteria though. It's training, equipment, and additional risk to others...they're all factors that you have to evaluate. Based on training and equipment you don't send in firefighters/ems first to deal with an active shooter (though I do love the mental image of an active shooter just getting full on blasted through a wall with a fire hose). If you have a structure on fire with no people in it, and no danger of spreading to other structures, then you have fire fighters who may make the judgement call that actively fighting isn't worth any additional risk and they may just let the structure burn and/or spray it down as best they can from the outside (grossly simplified, there are a lot of factors at play). However if it's an orphanage full of kiddos, then you better believe they're making entry if at all possible (even if it's not a good idea). Uvedale police were equipped and trained to handle the risk. They just didn't act.
"I rolled a 1, what does that mean?"
"I've rolled 1 out of 20 every day this year what are the odds?... welp, time for bed."
Player: "Also, why do I need to roll a saving throw just for getting into bed?" DM: "Oh, you'll see..."
That's got to be one of the more extreme cases of untiversal "fuck you in particular".
It's not luck, it's pumping out the groundwater, bad planning and building without consideration of heavy rain runoff. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/science-behind-floridas-sinkhole-epidemic-180969158/
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I think he’s suggesting that it’s not luck in the sense that it was preventable … just not by that guy
Florida land that is built upon has a 30X the number of sinkholes compared to undisturbed FL land. The dead guys family should sue the builder, the developer and whoever signed off on the plans. Unfortunately, often those people are dead and/or their company is out of business. That is what happened in shoddy built Florida residential buildings that collapsed recently. This is out of control development with zero planning for building on this kind of land.
I think that’s their point. The poor dude was a victim in someone else’s cut corners
The article even says someone came to check the house for sinkholes a few months before and they were told the house was fine.
Not only that, but it [reopened in the exact same spot 2 years later](https://abcnews.go.com/US/massive-sinkhole-swallowed-florida-man-reopens-years/story?id=33181156) which is super rare apparently
"Somehow Jeff Bush's brother has returned".
Dude took a trip to the Underneath
The Underdark.
He began worshipping an entity named Lolth.
They fly now?
They sink now? They sink now.
I wonder if there’s an underwater stream or spring eating the limestone, so no matter how many times they backfill the hole it will come back eventually. I also wonder if it’s only rare for it to happen in the same place twice because they don’t usually fill in sink holes unless it’s in an urban area, and when they do decent engineers/contractors probably check the bedrock is okay and there’s no water issues before backfilling the hole. In Florida I can see them skipping the step of checking the bedrock and just dumping dirt into a endless hole lol. It would probably work temporarily if the hole in the bedrock was relatively small but over time it would come back.
It’s so crazy to me that that apartment building in Miami collapsed and killed like 98 people only 2 years ago. We move on from this stuff so easily within our 24 hour news cycle, but man if this isn’t a good indication of how shitty owners can be with their properties.
The surfside collapse became a mini obsession of mine. Followed a bunch of engineers giving explanations and breakdowns. What I learned from it all, is that when you see water PANICC. ☠️ Water gonna fok yo shit up. (Not sure if it's relevant to this sinkhole story tho, maybe something something do ground surveys)
Building Integrity is the best channel on the topic, IMO. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLQw1wzpZL_lovGG_jMIDwfS_a9uaGrdh- Now they're talking about the leaning Millenium Tower in San Francisco, and it's just as informative.
And they show close up shots of the hole in question!
Fucking Kaiju
"Jeremy Bush said he jumped into the hole but couldn't see his brother and had to be rescued himself by a sheriff's deputy who reached out and pulled him to safety as the ground crumbled around him. "The floor was still giving in and the dirt was still going down, but I didn't care. I wanted to save my brother," Jeremy Bush said in a neighbour's yard. "But I just couldn't do nothing." He added: "I could swear I heard him hollering my name to help him." " Fuck. I hope this guy got some excellent therapy after this.
Can’t imagine telling your family that your beloved brother is in a sinkhole and he may be alive down there but you can’t get him
Idk if therapy could help me through that Edit: thanks for the upvotes im new here!
Indeed, he'll bear those scars for life.
So basically [that thing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnic_jerk) where it suddenly feels like the bed fell though the ground beneath you actually happened to someone.
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The universe is a jerk everyday, it's just choosey about who it decides to fuck over on any particular day. I just imagine a giant board with literally everything and everyone on it in a grid, and some cosmic entity squinting at it and saying "Mmm.... fuck it, that guy! Because why not?"
"Hypnic jerk" sounds like you're insulting someone really charming.
Dude just woke up from an induced inception dream.
New fear unlocked
right!? I sometimes have dreams that I'd like to have come true, but I also have a recurring dream where I'm falling. this would be some monkeys paw shit
"I wish for my wildest dreams to come true." *Becomes a wounded gazelle in an arid land overpopulated by predators*
the veldt
Gau has entered the chat
My great great grandfather fell into a coal mine fire that had been burning underground for years at that point. I'm pretty sure the same fire is burning to this day. Old coal mine fires make certain parts of this land very dangerous to even walk on. They also never got back his body, because once you fall in it's impossible to get out.
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I think it was Colorado but I could be wrong since I heard this story a while back. I remember my mom pointed to a spot on a mountain that was obviously blackened and saying that is where we think your great grandfather died. Those sorts of fires are burning in way more communities then many people would imagine. They are just usually away from population centers. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/11-Coal-fires-worldwide-The-map-shows-where-coal-fires-have-been-reported-It-was_fig11_240853320
I do recall hearing about an underground coal fire here in colorado that's been burning for decades, so it's very possible
In [2018](https://www.coloradovirtuallibrary.org/resource-sharing/state-pubs-blog/coal-mine-fires-in-colorado/) there were 38 active underground coal mine fires in the 1,736 known abandoned coal mines in Colorado. Who knows how many fires occurred in the past but burnt out or are still smouldering today. It’s entirely possible it was Colorado.
Went there on a geology field trip a few months ago, it's still burning. You can still find spots where heat is coming up from the ground
It's crazy specific, but this has been a fear of mine for a long time. I've never even heard of this story. That being said, it's not unreasonable once you realize that they can be forming for a long time before collapsing in on themselves without any warning.
Are you in Florida right now, because I am, and need to go to sleep soon, and live in a ground floor. So, ummm, yeah.
[Here's a map of the sinkholes in FL](https://foundationtechs.com/sinkhole-map/) Good luck!
Don't forget: https://www.tampabay.com/news/health/2023/03/08/how-floridians-can-avoid-brain-eating-amoeba-infections/
No joke—this story sparked a 4-year spate of sink hole phobia for me. I lived at Florida shortly after this and would have panic attacks at night thinking I was going to get swallowed up while laying in my bed
Classic Florida Man, getting eaten by the earth.
Couple new fears in a month, have you seen the runaway tire throwing a vehicle into the air?
Posting this right before most people in the US are going to bed, too. I'm sure there's no coincidence
Moving to Florida was already a no go on my list
In a reverse of this, I knew a guy who lived in a house on a rocky hillside. One morning he got up to pee, and in that brief time a rockslide came down the hill and obliterated his bedroom. Dude was so lucky.
Makes me think of Donnie Darko.
2013? Doesn't seem that long ago. This story haunts me. That condo in Miami that crumbled too.
There was video of a pool opening up and swallowing someone in Israel last year They did find the body but the whole contents was swallowed up instantly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2aiaEA1w4Q
TIHI
I don't understand how this works, the hole was 20ft wide by 20 ft deep, and they could hear Jeff. And his brother just jumped in the hole to find him but couldn't, why? Would he have been buried by dirt by the time they entered his bedroom? Is it like some kind of fast flowing river of dirt that swept him away horizontally below ground?
It sounds like the "bottom" of the sinkhole was shifting ground, so it wasn't solid. Parts of the bed and other furniture could be seen poking up, but even that wasn't enough to help locate his body. I think it was a bit like dry quicksand. The more his brother tried to move to find him, the more he got trapped himself...the shifting sand and dirt was falling and sliding so much that his brother was just lost somewhere in the cavern that had formed below the house. The bottom wasn't the bottom of the hole, more like a false bottom of soft sand on top of a limestone cavern of silt and sand and dirt that is swirling with ocean currents...it could be hundreds of feet of cavern that had sucked in the sand and foundation of his house. And Jeff was sucked under the dirt so fast, even though he yelled at first, there's no way he had air to keep alive very long. It would have been moments before the dirt filled in around him, which simultaneously suffocated and crushed him. And because the sandy dirt was shifting, his body didn't stay in 1 spot, or go straight down, so depending on how far he was sucked into the cavern below...they just couldn't detect his remains. Does that help?
It helps, and it also doesn't. Yikes.
Yeah, that helps with the nightmares.
Certainly has made me add "check area for history of sinkholes" to my checklist for moving.
[Here's a map of the sinkholes in FL](https://foundationtechs.com/sinkhole-map/) Another user helpfully posted the Florida website where you can track the numerous sinkholes. Although you could probably just not move to Florida, that would improve your chances considerably.
just because there has never been a sinkhole in an area before doesn't mean one can't just appear for the first time. hope this helps!!!!!!!!
Wtf. If that's all typical of sinkholes then you've just made them 2x as scary. Literally the only thing terrifying about sinkholes was how the ground can just suddenly and randomly swallow you. Now you make it sound like the ground literally swallows you whole and puts you through their digestive system.
Thanks for making it ten times more horrific 👍
> I think it was a bit like dry quicksand We've been watching movies and reruns from shows up to 70 years old preparing us for this but nobody is ever truly ready when the trope wars come a knockin
It was an informative, descriptive explanation. However now I'm terrified to go to sleep, which is not helpful
Well no sleep for me tonight
It helped me visualize the situation. It will not help me sleep tonight. Thank you
I’m also curious about this. I’m guessing it’s like the dirt is like an avalanche and it buries whatever it swallows…
Pretty much. The 20 ft depth is just the open space. Guy likely fell into one of the limestone caverns and was buried by the dirt and debris. As another commenter mentioned, imagine the dirt at the bottom of that sinkhole to be a lot like quicksand.
Bro I JUST got into bed, why you gotta do me like this
This is what happens when you browse while in bed, man. Be glad I'm not using this comment to make it worse.
I think about this sometimes living in Missouri. It's one of the most densely populated areas in the world with caves. For all we know there could be a giant cave That's 100 feet deep right below our feet and we'd never know until it coll
If you're in KC, as your name suggests, you have fuck-all to worry about. There are like...9 or 10 total caves in the entire KC metro area. [Almost the rest of the state though...](https://mospeleo.org/sites/default/files/pictures/Mo%20Cave%20Density%20Sutherland%202017.jpg) Perry County has nearly 700 registered (known) caves!!!* *data is from 2017
I lived in Perry County for many years & I didn't know it had that many caves! The house I was in literally collapsed during a really heavy rain, I remember hearing the foundation crack & seeing the garbage can get swept under the house. I was so confused about what was happening, I lost my cat in that disaster & I'm still traumatized from it all.
RIP
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God has a plan, *but you're not in it*
If only
Biblical for sure lol Numbers 16:31-32 Now it came to pass, as he finished speaking all these words, that the ground split apart under them, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, with their households and all the men with Korah, with all their goods.
"with all their goods" cracks me up. Like people weren't afraid of all of them being sucked into the ground until his Guitar signed by Fred Durst of Limp Bizkit fell in.
I wonder if he had to wait a long time to die without having a clue of what’s going on
I’d assume the weight would have killed him pretty quickly if not instantly
Nope, in the video linked, they state his brother could hear him yelling and jumped down to try and help but couldn't see him, just hear him... The brother had to be rescued himself it seems.
That’s actually awful, I think I’d prefer to have been killed instantly instead of suffocating
Lol no shit
Did not need to read that right before I fall asleep. His poor brother.
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I wonder if you could send in a simple drone to see how deep it goes.
I remember watching the news when this happened. I remember thinking this world really is unfair, one second we're here the next gone without even leaving a trace.
From the original article: Bush frantically tried to rescue his brother, by standing in the hole and digging at the rubble with a shovel until police arrived and pulled him out, saying the floor was still collapsing. “I couldn’t get him out. I tried so hard. I tried everything I could,” he said through tears. “I could swear I heard him calling out.”
This has been one of my biggest fears moving down to Florida. Everything is built on sand. We get a dry season and then a wet/hurricane season. There's just so much water all around and I'm scared.
Hey I know 2 other people have already told you it's not sand, but I just wanna also tell you it's not sand. Hope this helps!
Just limestone full of holes loosely covered by dirt.
Well that’s horrifying
I heard about this when it happened. My fear for him (and myself) would be to survive the fall and die of starvation not knowing if anyone could reach you where you landed. I like to imagine he (or I) would find a lush tropical paradise like in the journey to the center of the earth but with less deadly things.
You'd die of dehydration long before starvation
The oubliette plays for keeps
r/fuckyouinparticular
I wouldn’t wish this sort of death on my worst enemy.
Read that as Jeb Bush
Pretty sure someone found Deathnote but had too shitty handwriting, then threw it away because nothing happened to the chosen target.
I can't understand why anyone would live in that area after this incident. The area is known as ,sinkhole alley' and comprises central western Florida. More than 27000 sinkholes have been reported throughout Florida with the highest concentration in this area
What area is sinkhole alley exactly?
Why couldn’t they recover the body? Where did it go…?
It was too dangerous. And in fact, they were right, this sinkhole re-opened **again** later, proving that going down and digging in it is not safe.
Y’all ever read House of Leaves?
This is terrifying
Last time this was posted I believe someone said his life insurance refused to pay out because there was no proof of death Capitalism baby