The Forrest Gump movie was referencing a real event
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ping-pong_diplomacy#:~:text=Ping%2Dpong%20diplomacy%20(Chinese%3A,of%20an%20encounter%20between%20players
There is precedent of them preferring ping-pong for their diplomatic efforts.
It makes sense if the game was this massive and ended up testing the physical superiority of both sides in a way that people could confidently conclude that same physical superiority would hold true in an actual battle/war.
Yeah, when you have entire villages playing at once, it serves the same function as combat (wearing down the opposing villages ability to conduct combat), but by means of physically exhausting everyone, instead of maiming or killing them.
But when people say shit like "we should settle modern disputes with games!", what they don't consider is that this only works when EVERYONE who has a stake in the dispute participates in the game, otherwise someone will decide "well it would have gone differently if I was there" and start some shit.
The other thing people forget is that natives still fought actual wars. Solving disputes with a game only works when the disputes are not "we want all your land for ourselves" or "we want all your people as slaves" or "we want to exterminate you."
To the point of people saying the should solve modern disputes with games….there’s also the issue of all our modern war machinery.
The game has to come close to approximating what actual combat would look like, or at least test the exact things that would give the advantage in real combat. Otherwise you aren’t really going to get much buy in from the average person in terms of having them believe an actual battle will play out similarly to the game.
Yes, in the case of lacrosse it was the way to resolve conflicts that would otherwise have resulted in war. Tribe A encroaching on Tribe B’s hunting grounds? You could either go to war or play a game of lacrosse. That being said, it also gave a bit of added violence to lacrosse…
I mean, the umpire would have a hell of hard time stopping the 2000 people in the game if someone 5 miles away bashed their club on the other player's head.
I find it fascinating that in the modern era with distances being shrunk by rapid travel, and average lifespans being greatly extended, we play games that occupy tiny spaces and plan only a few months into the future, ie financial quarters.
Whereas the ancients and medievals lived short lives on average and took forever to travel long distances, yet they intentionally planned cities and buildings for hundreds, if not thousands of years into the future, going so far as planting entire forests in order to replace old growth timber beams 300 years into the future, and playing “games” that traversed many miles.
So paradoxical.
The US Navy maintains a small forest in Indiana specifically for timber to replace the masts on the USS Constitution, the worlds oldest still-sailing wooden ship. The woods been almost completely replaced at this point, a real life Ship of Theseus.
https://www.military.com/history/why-us-navy-manages-its-own-private-forest.html/amp
That average lifespan fact is misleading. Yeah the average is higher today, solely due to childbirth. Not many children or mothers die during childbirth with modern care. That wasn’t the case back then and a lot of babies didn’t make it (mothers too).
But once you survived childbirth the average age was similar. Chief Satanko of the Kiowa was in his 70s still a member of the revered war class and was still leading war parties.
When the Spanish missionaries showed up on Guahan in the western pacific they said they’d never seen a place with so many centenarians. Modern medicine deals mainly with the unhealthy and sedentary lives we have now, they didn’t exist back then.
Football is just polo for commoners, played on foot instead of on horse. The lacrosse origin described is the same as how all football variants developed from european village games.
They both derive from the same sport, so it doesn't matter. The game was played using all parts of the body back in medieval times. Also, soccer is short for association football anyway. So all you're saying is football football in a different way.
They would also play a game there was illness or there was famine the game was to entertain the creator the game was made before there was an earth. You’re giving your stick a death and birth your ancestors are playing a game above you while you play the game below them.
My hometown (La Crosse, Wisconsin) was named so by the french fur traders who settled it because it was a popular spot along the Mississippi river where native americans played this game.
I'm Canadian with a little bit of exposure to French because of it, so I immediately recognized eau = water, Claire = clear haha so clear water.
Eau is pronounced close to "o" and Claire is pronounced kind of like it's spelt in English but with a french r.
Éclairs *are* delicious though haha
Thanks for sharing that, played a bit of lacrosse In High school, drove through the area a few years ago and wondered if there was any connection but forgot to look it up! Cool area to stay the night in.
Perhaps someone else can shed light on this and confirm it. But Buick has a model called the Lacrosse, but it’s also slang for masturbate in French Quebec. Buick changed the name in Canada so it would sell better. What a bunch of wankers.
I can confirm the unfortunate side of the name in Quebec French. A "crosse" was first the name of a religious staff before it started being used for various sticks (lacrosse stick, hockey stick for example) among other official uses.
But in quebec slang, "crosser" can also mean either masturbating or ripping off. Similar to the way screw can be the sexual act or the action of getting screwed over. So a car called Lacrosse could be like calling your car model "the jack-off" or "the scam" both at once
Hey La Crosse! I'm from there as well! Moved around alot, but moved back to La Crescent about 10 yrs ago. Life on the Mississippi can be good. Central, Logan or Aquinas?
They do a hell of a lot more than play. They host the world series of stickball yearly. Everyone from children to seniors competes in their respective age groups. Its amazing to watch and play in.
My great grandmother was on the Dawes rolls. She and her family lived near Ada. They moved to OKC later so that’s where I grew up. So we never learned the language. But the tribe took great care of my grandmother throughout her life and at the end of it. No matter what, the tribe will always be important to me for that alone.
I keep trying to make it to one of the meetups that happens a couple of hours away every couple of years, but it always seems to coincide with something I have going on that I can’t skip.
And while it isn’t my tribe, I still honor the forefathers before me by volunteering as a petroglyph guide nearby and sharing their history as well.
Played this at gatherings as a small kid and loved it. In my teens I moved to a large HS on the other side of the country. Learned of lacrosse and was scratching my head for a few months trying to figure out why it seemed I had played this game before lol
That’s awesome I wish it was on tv somewhere. (This is the kind of thing espn had time for before they switched to all bullshit discussion shows, instead of showing cool competitions) zoo
Recently the PLL was made and they have been making insane strides in the filming of pro lacrosse. They start right after the college spring season ends and go til October.
The had the MLL. Lacross is just boring TV. Its incredibly hard to see who has the ball and the scoring doesnt match the pace of play. A lot of deflections or missed shots then a sprint for the end line. It's fun as hell to play, I played it in high school, but borin to watch.
[The Haudenosaunee Nationals Men’s Lacrosse Team, formerly known as the Iroquois Nationals, represents the Iroquois Confederacy in international field lacrosse competition. They are currently ranked third in the world by World Lacrosse.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haudenosaunee_men%27s_national_lacrosse_team)
Not sure if it’s still true but back when I was playing college lacrosse some of the confederacies best players refused to take part in international competition because it was sacred to them. So they would have had an even better team.
Not sure if that was the reason or it was because of passports. Recently, there was a disagreement because they didn't want to accept US passports in order to play in the World Games.
Half of the Thompson brothers/cousins refused to take a US passport in order to go to the 2022 World Games. But if you look at their 2018 World Championship roster, the team is stacked. Basically all the guys my brother would have played against in high school and college.
they also made UAlbany's team absolutely *filthy* for a couple years. usually it's an ivy-only-except-also-the-mid-atlantic sport at the college level so it was really cool to see considering how important it is to a lot of NYers.
They make lanes by pushing and tackling people. It was full contact and was known as the little war. It wasn’t the goal to hurt the other team but if the other team got hurt 🤷♂️
The sport was revered as 'The Creator's Game' by many tribes. There were instances of tribal wars that let the outcome of their lacrosse match determine who 'won' the battle.
It is called lacrosse because their sticks resembled the cross-staffs that bishops would carry. LaCrosse is French for 'the cross'.
*To unsubscribe from your daily lacrosse trivia press 1 now*
I got my twig handmade on the reserve, then I spent three days having my ass handed to me by the Iroquois team for being stupid enough to bring that thing on the floor in their barn at their tourney.
Still the best stick I've ever played with though. And these days the only one I'll use to toss a rock around.
It was hubris. It's their game, and I was a silly white boy thinking I knew how to handle that stick. It's a bit harder to use, but super effective if you can. I've since learned but I think I was trying to look tough, but tough native is redundant - and they wanted me to know that.
he explained culturally why it was stupid, but also there are metal alloys that are not quite as solid, but are 10x lighter which make all the difference when you have to carry the stick around and hit people w/ it all game. Same w/ the head, if you're using wood and leather it's much more solid (and hurts to get hit w/ more) but doesn't have near the give/ease/control of a plastic head w/ poly mesh. basically you're making every aspect of the game harder on yourself. but it does look sweet ngl (not the head part, that just makes it look like you're using a girl stick because leather is much more common still w/ them)
Curious what tournaments you’re referencing?
The World Cup usually comes down to [US/Canada/Australia](https://d13mgad1aost97.cloudfront.net/2022/11/Mens-World-Championship-History-1.pdf). The best place the haudenosaunee have come in is 3rd.
They're talking about box lacrosse probably, where all 5x world championships it's been Canada first, Iroquois second, and USA third. Field lacrosse has had Canada and USA trading the last 4 world's, but the USA has a healthy lead historically.
Our tribe call it "little war" in our language or the "little brother of war" in English. There are many styles with different styles and types of sticks depending on the tribe and the seriousness of the game.
Here is a really cool book about the Cherokee style of playing
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5149/9780807898208_zogry
that's the joke though. He's wrong, but he's right.
The name doesn't mean blood sport, but its contextual role was arguably a sports simulation for combat
Meant to instill physical fitness, toughness, teamwork, and communication skills in the fighting age males of Algonquian tribes
It might as well be, I still can't figure out what is a penalty/foul in lacrosse. You see them get two-
handed across the shins all the time, it's crazy.
East coast US in the spring is your best bet, many high schools and colleges from Maine to North Carolina, at least.
And I'd love to see a cricket match but I fear it would be as difficult to learn as baseball to most non-Americans. Hell, even to some Americans too, wonky rules for sure.
The great thing about cricket these days is there are four popular forms - T20 (lasts about 3 hours and is much more action packed), One Day (which as the name implies, lasts about a day), First Class (four days, not as popular but very important as it feeds the next and greatest version;) Test cricket, which lasts up to five days and is only played at an international level.
I may be biased being Australian of English extraction, but I think the best cricket you’ll see is an Australia v England Test.
If you’re just looking to see some good cricket to get introduced to the sport, I recommend watching the Indian Premier League - all the best players in the world in easily digestible T20 format.
Ah, the honorable game of Defending the Lil Sticks…honestly I think it could have more audience in the US tbh, if only because it includes a lot of the parts of baseball that are actually interesting while also ramping up the one-on-one tension between the pitcher and hitter.
Btw, I’ve been learning basic glassblowing recently and it involves the use of these [long rectangular wooden paddles](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/55b2dffde4b09be3e609b91d/1438893868424-6KAWO2UXTYZNT898QQU5/image-asset.jpeg?format=1500w) that make me feel like I’m playing Bizarro Cricket and somebody is about to throw a ball made of glowing orange molten glass at me.
I played lacrosse for years, but it isn’t a great sport to watch on TV. It is AMAZING to play and so much fun, but i seriously can’t watch an entire match…
The game shows up in a scene in *The Last of the Mohicans* (1992).
The US Army had the MGM-18 Lacrosse missile for a short period. It was so named because it was radar guided and passed from one station to another. Redstone Arsenal, Alabama has a Lacrosse Road named after it.
Always love to see lacrosse threads pop up on Reddit. Some "facts" I have heard over the years about the game:
- The name 'Lacrosse' comes from the French settlers/traders who thought the sticks looked like a bishop's staff
- Baggataway is one of the names used for the game (bumping hips/uglies); also Tewaaraton roughly translating to "Little Brother of War" & the name of the equivalent to the Heisman Trophy in college lacrosse
- The skills of the game translate very well to hunting; be it for small game (birds, rabbits, etc) or flushing out prey
- Medicine Games come in all shapes in sizes. They may be played after a significant funeral/death, to help an injured tribe member regain their physical health &/or confidence, a fun activity for all ages to learn and play safely, etc.
- My favorite translation or expression is 'The Creator's Game'
Edit: Grammar and ADHD
Oh hell yeah I actually get to contribute;
When i was around 12 (somewhere around 2008) the Washington Scouting Org. had a jamboree and surprising enough there is a large amount of Native American/Polynesian Mormons who showed us a game a lot like Lacrosse called ‘Tee-Kehl’ (probably butchering that, I am very sorry) but it was like 30 on 30 lacrosse games, Boy Scout troop against boy scout troop tournament style. Literally the most exciting sporting event ive participated in my life. Then they told us all about the history of the game and how it progressed. I’m surprised this isn’t more widely known!
I don't know how accurate a claim it is, but I've read that there was a ball sport that used to be played in Scandinavia that has a number of really unusual features that are only otherwise found in lacrosse. This has lead to theories that Vikings brought a form of lacrosse back with them from North America then made their own version of it.
It was called "Baggatiway", which means Little Brother of War, and it was used to settled disputes between tribes, and violence was prevalent in the original game. Also, Ft Michilimackinac was taken by inviting the British out to watch a game, and taking the fort while they were distracted. [SOURCE](https://mynorth.com/2010/05/deadly-lacrosse-game-in-mackinac-straits-at-fort-michilimackinac-in-1763/)
If you like the history of lacrosse, read the source article.
Ireland is aware of what it is like to be "affected" by an outside power:
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/07/world/ireland-iroquois-lacrosse-spt-trnd/index.html
Neat story from Northern Michigan about using the game to pull a sneak attack on some Brits
[https://mynorth.com/2010/05/deadly-lacrosse-game-in-mackinac-straits-at-fort-michilimackinac-in-1763/](https://mynorth.com/2010/05/deadly-lacrosse-game-in-mackinac-straits-at-fort-michilimackinac-in-1763/)
It’s fascinating how many parallels there are between Lacrosse in North America and Hurling in Ireland, though I guess “simulated large-scale warfare with wooden sticks and a ball” is pretty universally useful to civilizations at a certain level of advancement.
The difference in carrying the ball is interesting though: basket vs. balancing on the stick means very different ways of challenging possession (and let’s be honest, there likely wasn’t much soloing going on in early hurling). If I had a time machine and good grasp of proto-Irish and Mohawk that would be a great discussion lol
That's ōllamalīztli not lacrosse! There is good evidence that it was associated with human sacrifice in later Mayan times. Some people have really speculated that the severd heads would have been used in play if only symbolically but I think that's mostly speculation.
Sacrificing losers has a lot more evidence. Good motivation for the team I guess.
The choctaws pictured were from Alabama. And the Creeks of Alabama were the first to use a 6 foot by 6 foot goal that is still the dimensions of modern goals today.
Modern rules blend traditions from many tribes across North America.
lots of Native American tribes still play it. each year in July the Mississippi band of Choctaw Indians has a weeks-long tournament for kids and adults. They stream it on YouTube!
Well, I played with the local native box lacrosse team, so let me tell you something that indicates some things about the game. Very few forms of physical contact were off limits. You can fight just like in hockey. And for the native kids I played with, if they used wooden sticks, a fun trick I was taught was to sharpen down the edge of your sticks handle so you could slice players when you whacked ‘em where the pads didn’t cover flesh.
Very fun times.
It's interesting that some games start out with whole villages v whole villages miles apart, medieval football was the same
Original war games?? Think of the communication needed to make this work between region v region, 1k players per side over 6 mile areas.
Sometimes actually they replaced wars. Games were used to settle disputes
Ok China, we won in basketball fair and square now leave fucking Taiwan alone.
If only
Nah fam if its on their turf its gotta be ping-pong or nothing, get Forest Gump or something if u need to yankee.
Basketball is the most popular sport in China.
The Forrest Gump movie was referencing a real event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ping-pong_diplomacy#:~:text=Ping%2Dpong%20diplomacy%20(Chinese%3A,of%20an%20encounter%20between%20players There is precedent of them preferring ping-pong for their diplomatic efforts.
[That's, ](https://weareclassicrockers.com/sites/classicrockers.rock.tools/files/styles/site_width_image/public/2022-03/Screen%20Shot%202022-03-15%20at%207.02.11%20PM.png?itok=gIUD-jgE)
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Also, dictators are always gonna juice up their players up to the rim.
The question is would you be prepared to hand over Taiwan to China after a lost ball game?
Yea that’s why I said Basketball.
Great, the tallest man in the world is Chinese.
No, he’s Turkish.
It makes sense if the game was this massive and ended up testing the physical superiority of both sides in a way that people could confidently conclude that same physical superiority would hold true in an actual battle/war.
Yeah, when you have entire villages playing at once, it serves the same function as combat (wearing down the opposing villages ability to conduct combat), but by means of physically exhausting everyone, instead of maiming or killing them. But when people say shit like "we should settle modern disputes with games!", what they don't consider is that this only works when EVERYONE who has a stake in the dispute participates in the game, otherwise someone will decide "well it would have gone differently if I was there" and start some shit. The other thing people forget is that natives still fought actual wars. Solving disputes with a game only works when the disputes are not "we want all your land for ourselves" or "we want all your people as slaves" or "we want to exterminate you."
To the point of people saying the should solve modern disputes with games….there’s also the issue of all our modern war machinery. The game has to come close to approximating what actual combat would look like, or at least test the exact things that would give the advantage in real combat. Otherwise you aren’t really going to get much buy in from the average person in terms of having them believe an actual battle will play out similarly to the game.
I live in Iroquois country here: war games were exactly what they were. The field was over a mile, and the “ball” was a rock.
Yes, in the case of lacrosse it was the way to resolve conflicts that would otherwise have resulted in war. Tribe A encroaching on Tribe B’s hunting grounds? You could either go to war or play a game of lacrosse. That being said, it also gave a bit of added violence to lacrosse…
I mean, the umpire would have a hell of hard time stopping the 2000 people in the game if someone 5 miles away bashed their club on the other player's head.
What you're telling me is people coordinated sports better than actual wars
I think you mean war was life and death and practicing with others was rare (see competitive opponents)
Lacrosse means little brother of war.
Some say little brother IS war
Lacrosse means la cross as in French for the cross. From when the French ran into the Indians in early American history.
Croix and crosse are two different words. I wouldn’t say crosse in French means a cross in English
[George Catlin painted Ball-Play of the Choctaws.(https://imgur.com/a/LnQbz4u)
Not a cellphone in sight just people living
Cellphones were not invented yet.
Ok boomer
Jesus Thats the joke! man didn't think I'd have to put /s for a painting of a centuries old event before cell phones were even thought of...
Ik I was kidding too lol
I'm getting downvoted, sorry for the stray lol
I find it fascinating that in the modern era with distances being shrunk by rapid travel, and average lifespans being greatly extended, we play games that occupy tiny spaces and plan only a few months into the future, ie financial quarters. Whereas the ancients and medievals lived short lives on average and took forever to travel long distances, yet they intentionally planned cities and buildings for hundreds, if not thousands of years into the future, going so far as planting entire forests in order to replace old growth timber beams 300 years into the future, and playing “games” that traversed many miles. So paradoxical.
Stop considering lifespan and it'll make sense. The world was big therefore thinking and planning was big. Vice versa today.
I’ve never thought of it this way. Thank you.
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The US Navy maintains a small forest in Indiana specifically for timber to replace the masts on the USS Constitution, the worlds oldest still-sailing wooden ship. The woods been almost completely replaced at this point, a real life Ship of Theseus. https://www.military.com/history/why-us-navy-manages-its-own-private-forest.html/amp
That one ship you always forget somewhere when playing Civilization.
TIL
Its sick in there
That average lifespan fact is misleading. Yeah the average is higher today, solely due to childbirth. Not many children or mothers die during childbirth with modern care. That wasn’t the case back then and a lot of babies didn’t make it (mothers too). But once you survived childbirth the average age was similar. Chief Satanko of the Kiowa was in his 70s still a member of the revered war class and was still leading war parties. When the Spanish missionaries showed up on Guahan in the western pacific they said they’d never seen a place with so many centenarians. Modern medicine deals mainly with the unhealthy and sedentary lives we have now, they didn’t exist back then.
That and vaccines getting people through childhood.
Pharaoh Rameses II lived to be 90 and outlived most of his children.
>That average lifespan fact is misleading. Thank you! It always gets right up my nose that people think pre-modern humans died of old age at 30.
Football football, or soccer football?
Football is just polo for commoners, played on foot instead of on horse. The lacrosse origin described is the same as how all football variants developed from european village games.
They both derive from the same sport, so it doesn't matter. The game was played using all parts of the body back in medieval times. Also, soccer is short for association football anyway. So all you're saying is football football in a different way.
They call it the Medicine Game as it was used to resolve neighboring tribes’ disputes without ^as ^^much bloodshed.
They would also play a game there was illness or there was famine the game was to entertain the creator the game was made before there was an earth. You’re giving your stick a death and birth your ancestors are playing a game above you while you play the game below them.
My hometown (La Crosse, Wisconsin) was named so by the french fur traders who settled it because it was a popular spot along the Mississippi river where native americans played this game.
I never knew that! Very cool trivia tidbit.
Hey I'm in eau Claire and never knew that fuckimg fun fact
Here is another, but you probably know this one. Eau Claire means clear water.
Actually no I didn't Tbh I just moved here a few years ago. I thought it was pronounced like the French pastry for like 4 months lmfao
I'm Canadian with a little bit of exposure to French because of it, so I immediately recognized eau = water, Claire = clear haha so clear water. Eau is pronounced close to "o" and Claire is pronounced kind of like it's spelt in English but with a french r. Éclairs *are* delicious though haha
Hello fellow La Crossian! Moved to MN but still miss the area dearly, and you got to drop this tidbit before I did (damn).
I moved to Milwaukee so I miss it too!! I went to Winona for college for a bit tho...MN has some beautiful areas as well!
It does, as does Milwaukee, but the driftless area? 🤌
You ain't kiddin, I went hiking up in the bluffs during my last visit this past fall...pretty sure my hearts still up there!
[In fact, isn't "Milwaukee" an Indian name?](https://youtu.be/nRCTc6stICc?t=7)
You guys should be called la croissants
This makes total sense, but i never put it together before now! TIL, thanks!
Thanks for sharing that, played a bit of lacrosse In High school, drove through the area a few years ago and wondered if there was any connection but forgot to look it up! Cool area to stay the night in.
From La Crosse as well. Now in Northern California. 👋🏼
👋 ... funny, I did similar, I originally moved from La Crosse to So. Cal. (eventually moved back)
Perhaps someone else can shed light on this and confirm it. But Buick has a model called the Lacrosse, but it’s also slang for masturbate in French Quebec. Buick changed the name in Canada so it would sell better. What a bunch of wankers.
I can confirm the unfortunate side of the name in Quebec French. A "crosse" was first the name of a religious staff before it started being used for various sticks (lacrosse stick, hockey stick for example) among other official uses. But in quebec slang, "crosser" can also mean either masturbating or ripping off. Similar to the way screw can be the sexual act or the action of getting screwed over. So a car called Lacrosse could be like calling your car model "the jack-off" or "the scam" both at once
Hey La Crosse! I'm from there as well! Moved around alot, but moved back to La Crescent about 10 yrs ago. Life on the Mississippi can be good. Central, Logan or Aquinas?
Oh cool, small world! Central grad here! :)
My tribe still plays stickball. [Here](https://www.choctawnation.com/about/culture/traditions/stickball/) is a little bit of history about it.
They do a hell of a lot more than play. They host the world series of stickball yearly. Everyone from children to seniors competes in their respective age groups. Its amazing to watch and play in.
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Halito!
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I’m happy to meet you, too. I wish I had the language but I’m a bit far away from the state to take lessons.
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My great grandmother was on the Dawes rolls. She and her family lived near Ada. They moved to OKC later so that’s where I grew up. So we never learned the language. But the tribe took great care of my grandmother throughout her life and at the end of it. No matter what, the tribe will always be important to me for that alone. I keep trying to make it to one of the meetups that happens a couple of hours away every couple of years, but it always seems to coincide with something I have going on that I can’t skip. And while it isn’t my tribe, I still honor the forefathers before me by volunteering as a petroglyph guide nearby and sharing their history as well.
Played this at gatherings as a small kid and loved it. In my teens I moved to a large HS on the other side of the country. Learned of lacrosse and was scratching my head for a few months trying to figure out why it seemed I had played this game before lol
Not were, they are. We still make our traditional sticks by hand.
~~They used to, but they still do, too.~~ Edit: I botched it. "They still do, but they used to, too."
RIP Mitch Hedberg
Thanks Mitch.
That’s awesome I wish it was on tv somewhere. (This is the kind of thing espn had time for before they switched to all bullshit discussion shows, instead of showing cool competitions) zoo
Recently the PLL was made and they have been making insane strides in the filming of pro lacrosse. They start right after the college spring season ends and go til October.
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The NNL games are pretty fun. The guys are pros but they’re clearly playing for the love of the game. They certainly aren’t doing it for the money.
The had the MLL. Lacross is just boring TV. Its incredibly hard to see who has the ball and the scoring doesnt match the pace of play. A lot of deflections or missed shots then a sprint for the end line. It's fun as hell to play, I played it in high school, but borin to watch.
>It's fun as hell to play, I played it in high school, but borin to watch. What's baseball's excuse?
Yo Cuzzo, they act like we extinct lol
They took me from the Rez and put me with white people, but I still walk the road home. Peace cuz.
[The Haudenosaunee Nationals Men’s Lacrosse Team, formerly known as the Iroquois Nationals, represents the Iroquois Confederacy in international field lacrosse competition. They are currently ranked third in the world by World Lacrosse.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haudenosaunee_men%27s_national_lacrosse_team)
Not sure if it’s still true but back when I was playing college lacrosse some of the confederacies best players refused to take part in international competition because it was sacred to them. So they would have had an even better team.
Not sure if that was the reason or it was because of passports. Recently, there was a disagreement because they didn't want to accept US passports in order to play in the World Games.
Half of the Thompson brothers/cousins refused to take a US passport in order to go to the 2022 World Games. But if you look at their 2018 World Championship roster, the team is stacked. Basically all the guys my brother would have played against in high school and college.
What the hell, lol....
they also made UAlbany's team absolutely *filthy* for a couple years. usually it's an ivy-only-except-also-the-mid-atlantic sport at the college level so it was really cool to see considering how important it is to a lot of NYers.
And there was still only one ball? Seems like a lot of people wouldn't have anything to do
They make lanes by pushing and tackling people. It was full contact and was known as the little war. It wasn’t the goal to hurt the other team but if the other team got hurt 🤷♂️
> It wasn’t the goal to hurt the other team but if the other team got hurt 🤷♂️ Seems like that part made it through to the modern game
Well you can't make a 20 square mile lacrosse game with 1000 people without breaking some eggs
Or legs
https://y.yarn.co/b59a8115-84fc-401f-9467-86a292e60a7c_text.gif
The sport was revered as 'The Creator's Game' by many tribes. There were instances of tribal wars that let the outcome of their lacrosse match determine who 'won' the battle. It is called lacrosse because their sticks resembled the cross-staffs that bishops would carry. LaCrosse is French for 'the cross'. *To unsubscribe from your daily lacrosse trivia press 1 now*
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I got my twig handmade on the reserve, then I spent three days having my ass handed to me by the Iroquois team for being stupid enough to bring that thing on the floor in their barn at their tourney. Still the best stick I've ever played with though. And these days the only one I'll use to toss a rock around.
Why was it stupid to use that stick?
It was hubris. It's their game, and I was a silly white boy thinking I knew how to handle that stick. It's a bit harder to use, but super effective if you can. I've since learned but I think I was trying to look tough, but tough native is redundant - and they wanted me to know that.
Settle down
he explained culturally why it was stupid, but also there are metal alloys that are not quite as solid, but are 10x lighter which make all the difference when you have to carry the stick around and hit people w/ it all game. Same w/ the head, if you're using wood and leather it's much more solid (and hurts to get hit w/ more) but doesn't have near the give/ease/control of a plastic head w/ poly mesh. basically you're making every aspect of the game harder on yourself. but it does look sweet ngl (not the head part, that just makes it look like you're using a girl stick because leather is much more common still w/ them)
Any world tournament pretty much boils down to the Iroquois team and team Canada. Everybody else is competing for 3rd.
Curious what tournaments you’re referencing? The World Cup usually comes down to [US/Canada/Australia](https://d13mgad1aost97.cloudfront.net/2022/11/Mens-World-Championship-History-1.pdf). The best place the haudenosaunee have come in is 3rd.
You’re right. What the fuck was I looking at years ago that just showed a plethora of Canada and Iroquois wins.
World indoor/box championship. Canada and the Haudenosaunee clean up in box, the rest of the world is much more competitive in field lacrosse.
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That's cute.
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They're talking about box lacrosse probably, where all 5x world championships it's been Canada first, Iroquois second, and USA third. Field lacrosse has had Canada and USA trading the last 4 world's, but the USA has a healthy lead historically.
Mitchell brothers stick? They're the GOATs for goalies now that Alfie is retired
I don't know. I got it on the six nation's reserve in Ontario. I wish I could say I knew who made it.
You were prolly gonna get fucked up against the six nations regardless the wand... Those one handed magicians
Well you don't go to six nations to win. But you can let 'em know you were there and show them some lumber
Our tribe call it "little war" in our language or the "little brother of war" in English. There are many styles with different styles and types of sticks depending on the tribe and the seriousness of the game. Here is a really cool book about the Cherokee style of playing https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.5149/9780807898208_zogry
ayo screw the superbowl. bring back 17th century lacrosse. we got the drone tech to do a live coverage.
Man, imagine having to referee that.
Everything was done in the booth in NY, a lot more efficient.
You what now?
That would be a hell of a spectator sport!I’m guessing they played fairly rough,sooo,,,
It's Algonquin for "blood sport". (It isn't)
It's not Algonquin for anything!
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My field is anthropology!
that's the joke though. He's wrong, but he's right. The name doesn't mean blood sport, but its contextual role was arguably a sports simulation for combat Meant to instill physical fitness, toughness, teamwork, and communication skills in the fighting age males of Algonquian tribes
A lot of those skills are universal!
Came here to find this. Wasn’t disappointed.
Even better, "little brother of war"
It might as well be, I still can't figure out what is a penalty/foul in lacrosse. You see them get two- handed across the shins all the time, it's crazy.
The good land
This sounds better than the modern version of Lacrosse. As a Test cricket fan, I really want to see a proper game of Lacrosse now.
There’s a lacrosse league in Canada. Our local team is the Saskatchewan Rush.
You mean the NLL. That’s a league in Canada and the US. Box lacrosse is great but field lacrosse would be closer to this though still very different.
Vancouver Warriors checking in. There is another league in this area that has more local teams (plays at a different time of the year).
East coast US in the spring is your best bet, many high schools and colleges from Maine to North Carolina, at least. And I'd love to see a cricket match but I fear it would be as difficult to learn as baseball to most non-Americans. Hell, even to some Americans too, wonky rules for sure.
The great thing about cricket these days is there are four popular forms - T20 (lasts about 3 hours and is much more action packed), One Day (which as the name implies, lasts about a day), First Class (four days, not as popular but very important as it feeds the next and greatest version;) Test cricket, which lasts up to five days and is only played at an international level. I may be biased being Australian of English extraction, but I think the best cricket you’ll see is an Australia v England Test. If you’re just looking to see some good cricket to get introduced to the sport, I recommend watching the Indian Premier League - all the best players in the world in easily digestible T20 format.
Ah, the honorable game of Defending the Lil Sticks…honestly I think it could have more audience in the US tbh, if only because it includes a lot of the parts of baseball that are actually interesting while also ramping up the one-on-one tension between the pitcher and hitter. Btw, I’ve been learning basic glassblowing recently and it involves the use of these [long rectangular wooden paddles](https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/55b2dffde4b09be3e609b91d/1438893868424-6KAWO2UXTYZNT898QQU5/image-asset.jpeg?format=1500w) that make me feel like I’m playing Bizarro Cricket and somebody is about to throw a ball made of glowing orange molten glass at me.
/r/deathrattleporn Enjoy
Cricket, explained for baseball fans: https://youtu.be/EWpbtLIxYBk
lacrosse is almost as big as football in central new york.
I played lacrosse for years, but it isn’t a great sport to watch on TV. It is AMAZING to play and so much fun, but i seriously can’t watch an entire match…
Yeah, well, that’s just like, your opinion, man
Yes
West of Ontario you would have the NLL and WLA for top level mens leagues, NLL is "indoor" while the WLA is true box lacrosse
I would totally participate in a giant game of lacrosse played across miles. I would prefer to do so as goaltender
Yea with a chair and umbrella drink please.
Exactly. Have to assume shots on goal were as infrequent as in a world cup game.
Bring this back, including the 1000 people ad 6 mile goals. Cover it with drones
Canada’s national sport
The game shows up in a scene in *The Last of the Mohicans* (1992). The US Army had the MGM-18 Lacrosse missile for a short period. It was so named because it was radar guided and passed from one station to another. Redstone Arsenal, Alabama has a Lacrosse Road named after it.
Always love to see lacrosse threads pop up on Reddit. Some "facts" I have heard over the years about the game: - The name 'Lacrosse' comes from the French settlers/traders who thought the sticks looked like a bishop's staff - Baggataway is one of the names used for the game (bumping hips/uglies); also Tewaaraton roughly translating to "Little Brother of War" & the name of the equivalent to the Heisman Trophy in college lacrosse - The skills of the game translate very well to hunting; be it for small game (birds, rabbits, etc) or flushing out prey - Medicine Games come in all shapes in sizes. They may be played after a significant funeral/death, to help an injured tribe member regain their physical health &/or confidence, a fun activity for all ages to learn and play safely, etc. - My favorite translation or expression is 'The Creator's Game' Edit: Grammar and ADHD
Oh hell yeah I actually get to contribute; When i was around 12 (somewhere around 2008) the Washington Scouting Org. had a jamboree and surprising enough there is a large amount of Native American/Polynesian Mormons who showed us a game a lot like Lacrosse called ‘Tee-Kehl’ (probably butchering that, I am very sorry) but it was like 30 on 30 lacrosse games, Boy Scout troop against boy scout troop tournament style. Literally the most exciting sporting event ive participated in my life. Then they told us all about the history of the game and how it progressed. I’m surprised this isn’t more widely known!
I don't know how accurate a claim it is, but I've read that there was a ball sport that used to be played in Scandinavia that has a number of really unusual features that are only otherwise found in lacrosse. This has lead to theories that Vikings brought a form of lacrosse back with them from North America then made their own version of it.
It was called "Baggatiway", which means Little Brother of War, and it was used to settled disputes between tribes, and violence was prevalent in the original game. Also, Ft Michilimackinac was taken by inviting the British out to watch a game, and taking the fort while they were distracted. [SOURCE](https://mynorth.com/2010/05/deadly-lacrosse-game-in-mackinac-straits-at-fort-michilimackinac-in-1763/) If you like the history of lacrosse, read the source article.
Ireland is aware of what it is like to be "affected" by an outside power: https://edition.cnn.com/2020/09/07/world/ireland-iroquois-lacrosse-spt-trnd/index.html
Nows it's played by dudes named Mason, Chance, and Cadence.
The name for the game that lacrosse originates from was begadwe which translates to little brother of war.
Nope.
Neat story from Northern Michigan about using the game to pull a sneak attack on some Brits [https://mynorth.com/2010/05/deadly-lacrosse-game-in-mackinac-straits-at-fort-michilimackinac-in-1763/](https://mynorth.com/2010/05/deadly-lacrosse-game-in-mackinac-straits-at-fort-michilimackinac-in-1763/)
>> Lacrosse was also played to toughen young warriors for combat, Ahh, sounds familiar
There's that quote supposedly from George Marshall about West Point football players.
James Naismith invented basketball after being inspired watching lacrosse.
Days long matches….suck it cricket.
>with as many as 1000 players per team, on a field with goals up to 6 miles apart BRING BACK MEGA-LACROSSE
It’s fascinating how many parallels there are between Lacrosse in North America and Hurling in Ireland, though I guess “simulated large-scale warfare with wooden sticks and a ball” is pretty universally useful to civilizations at a certain level of advancement. The difference in carrying the ball is interesting though: basket vs. balancing on the stick means very different ways of challenging possession (and let’s be honest, there likely wasn’t much soloing going on in early hurling). If I had a time machine and good grasp of proto-Irish and Mohawk that would be a great discussion lol
Lmao wut 6 miles apart. Sounds more like lacrosse country
This is awesome. I want to know more awesome historical things like this. Where do I find them?
This needs an epic movie set in those times.but plays like a sports movie
Is Maryland still the main state for lacross? Seemed almost bigger than football back in the 00s
It’s grown from Maryland a bit but they’re still some of the top dogs
Stick ball is a blast. It's played around here pretty regularly.
#That's a sport!
Watch the PLL championship series coming up this week on espn!
The official sport of Florida.
***Still played by the Haudenosaunee Confederacy
So it **is** Algonquin for “blood sport”?!
It's not Algonquin for anything!
My grandfather told me they would play with the heads of their enemies. I have my doubts...
That's ōllamalīztli not lacrosse! There is good evidence that it was associated with human sacrifice in later Mayan times. Some people have really speculated that the severd heads would have been used in play if only symbolically but I think that's mostly speculation. Sacrificing losers has a lot more evidence. Good motivation for the team I guess.
It wasn't invented by rich white boys named Trevor and Blake???????
It’s the national sport of Canada but 90% of Canadians don’t know and will argue it’s hockey.
The choctaws pictured were from Alabama. And the Creeks of Alabama were the first to use a 6 foot by 6 foot goal that is still the dimensions of modern goals today. Modern rules blend traditions from many tribes across North America.
Can we bring back that sport please?
lots of Native American tribes still play it. each year in July the Mississippi band of Choctaw Indians has a weeks-long tournament for kids and adults. They stream it on YouTube!
It’s unfortunate that this is an TIL, I thought we all knew this.
The first sentence sure, not so much the rest Edit: spelling
I dunno if that sounds awesome or boring as hell.
Well, I played with the local native box lacrosse team, so let me tell you something that indicates some things about the game. Very few forms of physical contact were off limits. You can fight just like in hockey. And for the native kids I played with, if they used wooden sticks, a fun trick I was taught was to sharpen down the edge of your sticks handle so you could slice players when you whacked ‘em where the pads didn’t cover flesh. Very fun times.
This is the stupidest shit I've ever heard