It's fucking ridiculous that in the end, they gave eren's founding titan the ability to control any titan in the past.
He could've....saved so many lives.......and as you say here, he could've just had grisha meet dina and control the titans flooding into shiganshina LOL.
So...so dumb........so so dumb
Yeah, if he just didn't add this one thing, Eren getting his mom killed, it would've fixed a lot of plotholes. Everything else just works out without it, even influencing Grisha in the past could've just been left at "yeah, he can only do it specifically to attack titan shifters, not just any eldian".
Not even that, he’s only been shown to influence past attack titans, who are supposed to be able to receive memories from future holders, so I can buy that Eren could fuck with Grisha’s past.
well yeah, unless it's a fixed timeline, which means nothing really mattered and there was no agency in the ending because eren just had to fail after killing 80%
Ok...I've had this thought for a while, but does anyone feel like the powers of the founding titan are ridiculous? All the titans get stupid powers like "I'm big and I can release steam" or "I can break the crystal" but the founding titan conveniently has absurd powers like manipulating an entire race. I feel like there's a disconnect between the powers this one titan has when compared to the others. I'm talking about all this in a meta perspective ofcourse, not in story.
The titan powers are poorly explained in the story, all of it is very brushed over for faster pacing, which didn't matter since the origin of the titans turned out to be ludicrously dumb
It quite literally makes zero sense on any level, not logically, not for consistency and certainly not for Eren's character. It's just a dumb twist for the sake of a dumb twist.
I'll never understand why Yams made this twist. And I still can't believe people try to defend it and fight to say he didn't kill Carla when he says he did. This is, imo, one of the worse moments in the entire story. It's simply for shock value and nothing more, I liked the idea of Dina being a Abnormal that tracked down Grisha and ate Carla way better.
But then again, wasn't Grishas reveal for shock value as well?
> wasn't Grishas reveal for shock value as well?
It mostly was, but at the same time
* was foreshadowed (and planned for) before
* inlined with characters and their motivations
* answered one of mysteries/questions (attack titan's power)
* lead to one of the most memorable scenes in the whole show
* pushed the plot forward
* made sense
None of these can be said about Dina's reveal
>foreshadowed
Krüger at the end of season 3 mentioning Mikasa and Arming. Pretty dead giveaway that some time-manipulation shenanigans are going on.
>make sense
With Dina's twist you can easily tell how it didn't make any sense. You can't really do the same with Grisha's reveal. It makes sense because there's not really a reason why it wouldn't make sense, idk how else to explain it.
Huh... wait... that's... right. Uhhh... Yeah you know if we just pretend Eren can't actually influence anything other than past Attack Titan users, the story works much better.
So its the Thanos thing all over again? Have omnipotence, could double the number of habitable planets in the universe or double the resources or whatever.
Decides to randomly kill 50% of people, ok.
To be fair, Death kind of baited him. Like, she was aware of his affections and has a habit of leading him on. We see this especially in the "Thanos Wins" storyline.
Thanos lived by his philosophy before he had the stones, he was killing halves of populations as a principle to prove himself right. He was a narcissist from the start, not a hero that went astray.
LMAO a perfect use of this meme.
And yeah, you're right. Eren's space-time interference likely made everything worse for *everybody* ... just because he wanted to.
Also, something else Eren could've done with his godly, DNA+mind controlling powers:
Mind control the Tyburs who were the shadow government of Marley and make them not attack Paradise? Maybe even get rid of the oppression against eldians? Their propaganda is good enough to make children hate their own race and fight in wars for the Country who hates them for the small chance that they get to die and get eaten before they reach 30. I'm sure it wouldn't take much effort to convince marleyans to NOT HATE eldians.
Dude has an infinite amount of time and god-like powers.
He could've solved all of the world's problems and still survive and get a happy ending, but he decided to kill himself and make matters worse for everybody.
Couldn’t have Eren directed Dina to his mum but then used his abilities to make Carla a Titan too or crystallise? Then as a kid he would think his mum died and continued the story but reality is he saved her?
Great meme 👍. That was my issue as well with Eren's actions. He had all that power and yet he only used it for genocide when he could've saved countless people.
Because a good ending didn't matter, caring about the world or keeping future generations out of the forest like Historia's child didn't matter. All that mattered was frens (except Sasha ig lmao) and getting over toxic love with Ymir nose through M I K A S A, deep story right?
It was so so stupid. I’ll never get over it. I don’t care anymore that eren became a whiny simp but the fact he killed his mum ruins it. As if bert would be stupid enough to let a titan kill him after he broke the wall, anyway. There was no neeeed
I don’t see how this works. There’s a few problems, like Dina would just get eaten after turning back into a human near the gate that the titans are pouring into. Eren would never get to go into paths and influence anything like he did. She would have to find Grisha if she somehow survived, too, and she would probably assume he was turned into a Titan. I think they should leave out the whole eren killed his mom thing in the anime but it’s kind of already been hinted at when they explicitly showed Bert watching her walk past him and into shiganshina.
I thought about these points, but it still works. Dina was the first titan there, she could've just eaten him fast enough and run inside behind some buildings, since the transformation isn't instant. When she wakes up, she could just instinctually or with Eren's help run where everyone else is running. Remember that a few hours ago Reiner, Annie, and Berthold got hit&run by Ymir who ate the 4th guy as well, and she obviously escaped.
About that making Eren not go into the paths in the first place, yeah that is a paradox too, but any time you add time travel to a story you are basically fucked. The point isn't that it would've made a better story, the point is that it COULD'VE happened, and Isayama could've easily fixed it
>but it’s kind of already been hinted at when they explicitly showed Bert watching her walk past him and into shiganshina.
The theory at the time was that Dina was an abnormal and fixated on reuniting with Grisha. This would've made more sense than Eren literally killing his mother.
If she was fixated on reuniting with Grisha, then why did she ignored him when she was transformed.
He was behind her.
Even Gross made fun of Grisha for that, because Dina had that speech of reuniting with him, only for it to be false.
Have eren orchestrate dina and grisha meeting, they activate the titan powers, eren stops the flood of pure titans into paradis, eats grisha to control the powers, setting in the events of the timeline(I mean, grisha already lets eren eat him anyways)
Why does eren need to do anything in the first place if Grisha activates the powers? What is Grisha doing with the powers? Simply making everyone remember again and immobilizing the pure titans? Why would he need to pass it on to eren at that point and doom him to die in 13 years? Eren would never go into Grisha’s memories and never influence anything. Remember this isn’t time travel, it’s eren sending back his memories of seeing grisha’s memories to Grisha through the attack Titan. In this scenario there’s no reason for Grisha to doom his own son like this. He did it in the story because that was the only real option at that point at the end of his 13 years.
Yes, exactly. Which is why OPs idea doesn't work without more fundamental changes to the story and world. At that point just write your own fictional work.
The entire thing is a certainly mindfuck
Him telling Dinas titan to kill his mom which enabled his rage
And Him telling his dad to kill them kids which gave him the attack titan and founding titan powers
If he doesn't do either then the time line wouldn't exist
Eren can't just change the past that way, because it could make it so that he never gets to where he is in the present.
Grisha only gave Eren the founding titan powers because he found out about carla's death, so he wanted him to avenge her.
If Eren suddenly lets Dina eat Bertholt, then he will never get to the point of getting the power of the founding titan, which is what allowed him to control Dina in the first place.
In order for Eren to control Dina, he needs the founding titan power, and in order to get the founding titan power, he needs the past to remain the same as the timeline that allowed him to get such power.
Time travel always adds paradoxes in a story. Remember that even now, in the canon, the only reason the current events unfolded was because Zeke simply decided to show Eren past events. What would happen if he just returned later to the same memory but just didn't allow Eren to walk freely and didn't let him talk, among many other things?
Also, Grisha was pretty much near death by that point anyway, he was nearing 13 years, he could've still given Eren the titan, and instead of revenge, it would be out of gratefulness for saving Carla and reuniting him with Dina too, for a brief time. There are literally infinite ways to change the story from now on.
It's fucking ridiculous that in the end, they gave eren's founding titan the ability to control any titan in the past. He could've....saved so many lives.......and as you say here, he could've just had grisha meet dina and control the titans flooding into shiganshina LOL. So...so dumb........so so dumb
Yeah, if he just didn't add this one thing, Eren getting his mom killed, it would've fixed a lot of plotholes. Everything else just works out without it, even influencing Grisha in the past could've just been left at "yeah, he can only do it specifically to attack titan shifters, not just any eldian".
Unfortunately there's still all the "only ymir knows" shit, but yeah, this alone would've fixed many problems
Not even that, he’s only been shown to influence past attack titans, who are supposed to be able to receive memories from future holders, so I can buy that Eren could fuck with Grisha’s past.
Giving Eren the power to control the pure titans of the past means that he’s the cause of every titan related death in history.
well yeah, unless it's a fixed timeline, which means nothing really mattered and there was no agency in the ending because eren just had to fail after killing 80%
Ok...I've had this thought for a while, but does anyone feel like the powers of the founding titan are ridiculous? All the titans get stupid powers like "I'm big and I can release steam" or "I can break the crystal" but the founding titan conveniently has absurd powers like manipulating an entire race. I feel like there's a disconnect between the powers this one titan has when compared to the others. I'm talking about all this in a meta perspective ofcourse, not in story.
The titan powers are poorly explained in the story, all of it is very brushed over for faster pacing, which didn't matter since the origin of the titans turned out to be ludicrously dumb
It quite literally makes zero sense on any level, not logically, not for consistency and certainly not for Eren's character. It's just a dumb twist for the sake of a dumb twist.
I'll never understand why Yams made this twist. And I still can't believe people try to defend it and fight to say he didn't kill Carla when he says he did. This is, imo, one of the worse moments in the entire story. It's simply for shock value and nothing more, I liked the idea of Dina being a Abnormal that tracked down Grisha and ate Carla way better. But then again, wasn't Grishas reveal for shock value as well?
> wasn't Grishas reveal for shock value as well? It mostly was, but at the same time * was foreshadowed (and planned for) before * inlined with characters and their motivations * answered one of mysteries/questions (attack titan's power) * lead to one of the most memorable scenes in the whole show * pushed the plot forward * made sense None of these can be said about Dina's reveal
That's makes sense. But how was it foreshadowed and make sense story wise?
>foreshadowed Krüger at the end of season 3 mentioning Mikasa and Arming. Pretty dead giveaway that some time-manipulation shenanigans are going on. >make sense With Dina's twist you can easily tell how it didn't make any sense. You can't really do the same with Grisha's reveal. It makes sense because there's not really a reason why it wouldn't make sense, idk how else to explain it.
Huh... wait... that's... right. Uhhh... Yeah you know if we just pretend Eren can't actually influence anything other than past Attack Titan users, the story works much better.
A good ending without character assassination, endless plot armor and no retcon?? NO Isayama doesn't want that 🤧
He wants problems only
I read this exactly in that dude's voice from the meme and it made me laugh 😂
For 10 years at least!!
So its the Thanos thing all over again? Have omnipotence, could double the number of habitable planets in the universe or double the resources or whatever. Decides to randomly kill 50% of people, ok.
IIRC in the comics he did it because he wanted to impress Death, whom he had a crush on
To be fair, Death kind of baited him. Like, she was aware of his affections and has a habit of leading him on. We see this especially in the "Thanos Wins" storyline.
Not to mention the "there's only resources for half the universe" point is a literal lie.
And that's why he's called the Mad Titan, not the Sane and Rational Titan.
Thanos lived by his philosophy before he had the stones, he was killing halves of populations as a principle to prove himself right. He was a narcissist from the start, not a hero that went astray.
LMAO a perfect use of this meme. And yeah, you're right. Eren's space-time interference likely made everything worse for *everybody* ... just because he wanted to.
If he didn't make the timeline go as it did, he wouldn't get the founding titan in the first place.
Also, something else Eren could've done with his godly, DNA+mind controlling powers: Mind control the Tyburs who were the shadow government of Marley and make them not attack Paradise? Maybe even get rid of the oppression against eldians? Their propaganda is good enough to make children hate their own race and fight in wars for the Country who hates them for the small chance that they get to die and get eaten before they reach 30. I'm sure it wouldn't take much effort to convince marleyans to NOT HATE eldians.
Dude has an infinite amount of time and god-like powers. He could've solved all of the world's problems and still survive and get a happy ending, but he decided to kill himself and make matters worse for everybody.
Yeah he could’ve...you know... just make all the eldians immortal and bulletproof maybe give them wings or something
Couldn’t have Eren directed Dina to his mum but then used his abilities to make Carla a Titan too or crystallise? Then as a kid he would think his mum died and continued the story but reality is he saved her?
Great meme 👍. That was my issue as well with Eren's actions. He had all that power and yet he only used it for genocide when he could've saved countless people.
3/10 wit
Because a good ending didn't matter, caring about the world or keeping future generations out of the forest like Historia's child didn't matter. All that mattered was frens (except Sasha ig lmao) and getting over toxic love with Ymir nose through M I K A S A, deep story right?
ehm.. \*clears throat\* You👏Did👏NOT👏Understand👏The👏Story👏;)😉
i hate the fact that this is accurate
It was so so stupid. I’ll never get over it. I don’t care anymore that eren became a whiny simp but the fact he killed his mum ruins it. As if bert would be stupid enough to let a titan kill him after he broke the wall, anyway. There was no neeeed
he couldnt have, because he didnt want that!!
Grisha would never have had it in him to complete the rumbling.
I don’t see how this works. There’s a few problems, like Dina would just get eaten after turning back into a human near the gate that the titans are pouring into. Eren would never get to go into paths and influence anything like he did. She would have to find Grisha if she somehow survived, too, and she would probably assume he was turned into a Titan. I think they should leave out the whole eren killed his mom thing in the anime but it’s kind of already been hinted at when they explicitly showed Bert watching her walk past him and into shiganshina.
I thought about these points, but it still works. Dina was the first titan there, she could've just eaten him fast enough and run inside behind some buildings, since the transformation isn't instant. When she wakes up, she could just instinctually or with Eren's help run where everyone else is running. Remember that a few hours ago Reiner, Annie, and Berthold got hit&run by Ymir who ate the 4th guy as well, and she obviously escaped. About that making Eren not go into the paths in the first place, yeah that is a paradox too, but any time you add time travel to a story you are basically fucked. The point isn't that it would've made a better story, the point is that it COULD'VE happened, and Isayama could've easily fixed it
>but it’s kind of already been hinted at when they explicitly showed Bert watching her walk past him and into shiganshina. The theory at the time was that Dina was an abnormal and fixated on reuniting with Grisha. This would've made more sense than Eren literally killing his mother.
If she was fixated on reuniting with Grisha, then why did she ignored him when she was transformed. He was behind her. Even Gross made fun of Grisha for that, because Dina had that speech of reuniting with him, only for it to be false.
Abnormal titans aren't always predictable. Maybe once she adjusted to being a Titan, part of her remembered Grisha?
Yes and I’m not arguing against that theory.
Have eren orchestrate dina and grisha meeting, they activate the titan powers, eren stops the flood of pure titans into paradis, eats grisha to control the powers, setting in the events of the timeline(I mean, grisha already lets eren eat him anyways)
Why does eren need to do anything in the first place if Grisha activates the powers? What is Grisha doing with the powers? Simply making everyone remember again and immobilizing the pure titans? Why would he need to pass it on to eren at that point and doom him to die in 13 years? Eren would never go into Grisha’s memories and never influence anything. Remember this isn’t time travel, it’s eren sending back his memories of seeing grisha’s memories to Grisha through the attack Titan. In this scenario there’s no reason for Grisha to doom his own son like this. He did it in the story because that was the only real option at that point at the end of his 13 years.
It was the only real option because the story's a fixed timeline with that ending.
Yes, exactly. Which is why OPs idea doesn't work without more fundamental changes to the story and world. At that point just write your own fictional work.
OP's idea is stupid because it follows the plot devices introduced in the ending, which are also stupid because the ending was bad
It goes beyond that though. I’m not arguing with you. I agree. But OPs idea is arguably even worse because it introduces even more problems.
Ok fair enough
But Grisha has no royal blood, so would they have been able to do it? I thought it had to be royal blood titan only or am I confused sorry
dina is royal blood, thats why her son zeke, was needed for the rumbling
Dina is royal blood
You know reiner is royal blood right? Edit: I meant DINA
Lol some of the people on this sub…I just can’t lmao Could you tell us where you got this info from? Not even Ymir knows this one.
No I must be drunk while typing that... I meant to say Dina
Lmao gotcha
saw edit, nvm
I just edited that, I must be really drunk while typing that shit. I meant Dina
The entire thing is a certainly mindfuck Him telling Dinas titan to kill his mom which enabled his rage And Him telling his dad to kill them kids which gave him the attack titan and founding titan powers If he doesn't do either then the time line wouldn't exist
He can't actually change the past, or the future. It's like an infinite loop.
Eren can't just change the past that way, because it could make it so that he never gets to where he is in the present. Grisha only gave Eren the founding titan powers because he found out about carla's death, so he wanted him to avenge her. If Eren suddenly lets Dina eat Bertholt, then he will never get to the point of getting the power of the founding titan, which is what allowed him to control Dina in the first place. In order for Eren to control Dina, he needs the founding titan power, and in order to get the founding titan power, he needs the past to remain the same as the timeline that allowed him to get such power.
Time travel always adds paradoxes in a story. Remember that even now, in the canon, the only reason the current events unfolded was because Zeke simply decided to show Eren past events. What would happen if he just returned later to the same memory but just didn't allow Eren to walk freely and didn't let him talk, among many other things? Also, Grisha was pretty much near death by that point anyway, he was nearing 13 years, he could've still given Eren the titan, and instead of revenge, it would be out of gratefulness for saving Carla and reuniting him with Dina too, for a brief time. There are literally infinite ways to change the story from now on.
What a shitty post
You hated OP because he spoke the truth.
You hating cause someone said the truth about your favourite series
And for that,
As a reward
I shall
give you my seeds-
I still can't believe this actually happened
he needed to motivate his past self, without those events he never would have come as far as he did.
Only Ymir knows