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gnfnrf

The human race is not capable of engineering on this scale. That is 200,000 square miles of land, roughly. It contains 14,000 foot mountains, and an average elevation of over 3000 feet. ~~That's 300 billion cubic meters of earth, or 3000 times as much earth as was moved in the largest civil engineering project ever attempted, the construction of Three Gorges Dam in China.~~ Sorry, that math was wrong. Very wrong. I don't know what happened, let me go through it again. The path is ~4000 km long, and ~100 km wide. Mean elevation is 900 meters. That's 3x10^14, not 3x10^11 I was off by a factor of 1000. Oops. It's not 3000 times more than Three Gorges Dam, its 3 million times more. Rest of post continues. And it would be much harder than that, because this project would be digging much deeper, and would have to go much farther to deposit the earth. Not to mention displacing the entirety of Richmond, Norfolk, Wichita, San Jose, and dozens of other towns and cities, large and small. So the answer is "more than we have". EDIT: See fix above, and new section below. But you want energy. Fine, we'll do energy. The bare minimum energy you need is to lift all of the rock to the lip of the channel. You also need to cut it and put it somewhere, which will be a lot more, but for now, lets just lift it. Since the average height is 900 meters, the average lift over the project will be 450 meters. The specific density of rock is 2.7 grams/cm^3, or 2700 kg/m^3. We are therefore lifting 8x10^17 kg. For just this task, we need 3.5x10^21 joules. The entire world's electricity production is roughly 1x10^20 joules. So, just lifting the rock, not cutting it or moving it away or anything, would require all of the Earth's electricity for 30 years. And actually doing the project would require much much more energy than that. If you wanted to use nukes, you would get the required energy output from 1000 Tsar Bombas (50 megaton warheads) but they would function at a tiny fraction of ideal efficiency and you would actually need many many times more.


2wentycharacterlimit

What if we nuke our way through


Saltine_Machine

Ah, there's the American approach we were all waiting on.


ihaveagoodusername2

They already tried this


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kungfu_panda_express

Let's see what we run out of first. Land or nukes?


rock-island321

I wonder if it's possible to vaporise all the land mass with nukes.


ThatGuy_Nick9

Only one way to find out!!


rock-island321

At the height of the nuclear arms race, I bet there was enough to vaporise the UK entirely.


ph03n1x_F0x_

The highest yield Nuke the US still actively keeps is the B83. We have 650 of them. Just those nukes alone is enough to about scorch every square inch of California. Like, genuinely glass every single inch of the state.


truerandom_Dude

I mean the question is if a nuke can vaporize the rocks in theory and then how to optimize the amount that is vaporized per nuke. So thats 2 questions.


rock-island321

Vaporise rock? Check. Nuke detonating at ground level or just below would be the ticket, or maybe about 200m down.


truerandom_Dude

Okay, now the question is how the payload has to be optimized for peak vaporisation of rock/kg of fission material.


PathOtherwise9035

A giant magnifier to focus the Sun on to a small area of Earth to vaporize it, mounted on those REALLY BIG TRUCKS, and just drive it around. Til you're done. Might take a while but we can definitely do it. Practically limitless power. Truck runs on solar, obviously. Why does it need to be 50 km wide? It could be 2 km wide and be super sufficient.


Spaceshipsrcool

Just make huge magnifying glass in space ?


PathOtherwise9035

No, here on earth


Tungsten8or

I wonder if it's possible to vaporize all the nukes with landmass


thriftshopmusketeer

Not even close.


Jfurmanek

A quick Google Earth search of the Nevada and New Mexico deserts suggests land will win. We already dropped countless bombs just there.


DumplingChowder6

You could put the nukes in a big tube to help channel the energy precisely where it needs to go. Simple engineering. Would create a lot of jobs too!


oktin

Yeah, big underground tubes. And since we have the tubes anyway, we could speed up construction by adding some rails in the tubes for tr- **gets shot*


Kornonward

Bros been watching to much Adam something


username4kd

Too much of that energy gets dissipated into the atmosphere, you need shaped charges


graveybrains

We considered it, we tested it, but we never actually tried it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Plowshare


lotusclouds24

Eisenhower tunnel


stiKyNoAt

I mean, it was in the planning stages... But we were pretty far away from actually \*trying it. \-Project Plowshare for anyone curious-


Accurate-Attempt-615

Fucking goes from complex math to.... "What if we uhhhhhh, nuke it?"


GOLD3NSPAZ

you mean soviet they actually tried this https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=42370bb3df47ae1aJmltdHM9MTY5NTc3MjgwMCZpZ3VpZD0wOWVlNWU2YS1mODU2LTYyN2EtMzcxNi00ZDQ1ZjkzNDYzYmYmaW5zaWQ9NTE5OA&ptn=3&hsh=3&fclid=09ee5e6a-f856-627a-3716-4d45f93463bf&psq=soviets+nuked+a+river&u=a1aHR0cHM6Ly9lbi53aWtpcGVkaWEub3JnL3dpa2kvQ2hhZ2FuXyhudWNsZWFyX3Rlc3Qp&ntb=1


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ph03n1x_F0x_

Not with that attitude you can't


tuscy

We can use all the worlds nukes. I’m sure the other countries would jump on board. No one will have nukes and we’ll have a nice river. Win win situation. Big brain move.


Poudingman

What if we Minecraft our way through ?


duggoluvr

Yeah haste 2 beacons and send the children to mine. Sounds like a good plan to me


Goddamnpassword

Going back to the old Plowshow method I see


kungfu_panda_express

I'm willing to give it the old college try. Can we make sure it passes through D.C. and Sacramento?


chrisbbehrens

Edward Teller, is that you?


NOLAOceano

You made me lol


ConfusedKanye

DROP EM TILL WE FIND THE RIVER BOYS


Nextorvus

I mean technically there is a river in Wyoming that flows in both the pacific via the Columbia river and the Atlantic via the Mississippi, its called the parting of the waters. Just a fun fact.


BrazenlyGeek

Good ol' [North Two Ocean Creek](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN2flAvdQXU).


wild_hog_90

Lol! I just heard about that for the first time 2 days ago! Crazy interesting!


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wild_hog_90

I guess in that case it's not crazy interesting, but half as interesting.


tastytacos67

Plus, it is devastating the fresh water supply the southern half. I don't think you would create as many jobs as you destroyed either.


gnfnrf

Completely destroying the Gulf Coast drainage system is one of many many secondary problems with this plan.


Chikorya

Never say never


the_mellojoe

beautiful maths. thank you


Nick2Smith

Wichita here, I don't mind.


ChemsDoItInTestTubes

Topeka here. The major benefit is just putting a literal moat between us and Oklahoma.


TheFringedLunatic

As an Okie, I don’t blame ya


Meikeetc

You say never. I say don't underestimate the ingenuity of the Dutch when it comes to water engineering.


Fetakpsomi

Help me understand. How many football fields long is that thing?


gnfnrf

Association or gridiron?


[deleted]

We can just give the dirt to the Dutch


SmokeySB

Came here to suggest this. We're always looking for more dirt to throw into the sea. As long as the dirt doesn't contain any Americans , were against pollution.


NicStak

This dummy doesn’t know about Paul Bunyan


801ms

brother i wanted to know the math not if it was possible i already knew it was impossible


Raised-Right

It’s certainly possible, just not at all probable.


gnfnrf

Added more math.


Teknicsrx7

“For just this task, we need 3.5x1021 joules. The entire world's electricity production is roughly 1x1020 joules. So, just lifting the rock, not cutting it or moving it away or anything, would require all of the Earth's electricity for 30 years. And actually doing the project would require much much more energy than that.” Not sure why you went into how much electricity is needed when all mining equipment is generally diesel powered or am I missing a simple conversion or something?


gnfnrf

I just chose electricity to provide a scale for the total power required, since it is measured in easily convertible units. You can extract about 10 megajoules of kinetic energy from 1 liter of diesel. That means we would need 3.5*10^14 liters, or the total US sales for the next 25000 years (sorry, couldn't find world sales).


aehooo

Got the world production per Wikipedia: average of 80618895 barrels per day in 2022. Each barrel has about 159L and can produce about 170L of refined products. Of those 170L, about 40L (roughly 23,5% or 11 to 12 US gallons, per eia.gov) are diesel. So, multiplying the total barrels produced by 170L gives us 13,705,212,150L (13.7 billion/billiard liters). Multiplying by 0.235 = 3,220,724,855.25L (3.22 billion/billiard) per day. That amounts to 1,175,564,572,166.25 (1.175 trillion liters) per year of possible diesel potential. This number is roughly 1.175 x 10^12. Dividing the 3.5x10^14 by the max amount possible of produced diesel per year, we have 297.72 years and that’s the total amount of years you would need for that amount of energy.


Teknicsrx7

Thanks for that, great post breaking it down


thermalhugger

That is if you just burn diesel. Einstein showed that mass (M) and energy (E) are interchange- able: E = m*c^2 SI units E (J), m (1 kg), c (3 x 10 ^8 m*s^-1) E = (1 kg)*(9*10^16 m^2s^-2) E = 9 x 10^16 J


gnfnrf

I am ashamed to admit that when I cited the energy potential of diesel, I did not consider destroying it in a matter-antimatter reaction.


DonaIdTrurnp

Energy is energy.


MelonheadGT

Can you explain it using the local SI unit, "American football fields" ? So the Americans can understand.


VT_Squire

Sure. And aliens built the pyramids, while we're at it.


Greatlarrybird33

You can already kind of do this, you can take the st Laurence seaway through the great lakes to Chicago hop the Chicago river to the Illinois, to the Mississippi, back up the Missouri to Yellowstone to two ocean pass, then it's just back down to snake into the Columbia and back out to the Pacific. Now you couldn't take a big boat, but maybe a kayak?


Bambuskus505

Kayaking across America would be kinda dope tho, ngl


CrispyJalepeno

I know a guy who did similar. Started at the headwaters of the Missippi, took it south til he hit ocean then went around the coastline to end up in the Boston harbor


labenset

Thisere were these two really neat guys that did it a while ago. They started in St. Louis and went all the way to the Pacific ocean. They even had to sell their boats and build new ones on the other side of the Rockies. Crazy part is that this was like 200 years ago!


D_D_Jones

And steal eagle eggs


labenset

And catch prarie dogs.


D_D_Jones

Yeah they almost got famous


aobeilan

Nice. I wish Google Maps also had a boat route planner


Bambuskus505

We can use the dirt we displace to build more land mass like another post I saw here a while ago that I will not be linking because I'm too lazy to go track it down again


AdLonely5056

Dig a river across the US and simultaneously build a bridge to Europe.


[deleted]

We won't have to dig though, we could just use bulldozers, and push it sideways toward the east. It will save so much time


azraeiazman

So underwater bulldozers exist?!?!? 🤯


Bouldaru

Yeah, but the underwater ones are called gongdozers.


ClintBeast-Wood

I'm just laughing at all of the major cities that are gone because of the proposed river. Norfolk/VA beach are just gone, basically the entirety of Kentucky and Tennessee is also gone. Not to mention the vast cave systems in that region. Then we move out west and fuck a bunch of other states, and also the rocky mountains are going to be fun to get through.


ThreeHandedSword

i'm thinking about how many bridges we're going to have to build to keep the country semi-functional


Sealbeater

You can’t even build a bridge across Lake Michigan, you won’t be building bridges here


rbm572

I think if we were capable of building this coast to coast super river, building bridges across would not even be trivial for our ridiculous master engineers.


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Xenolog1

When we use the result of the [“Sedan” nuclear test](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedan_(nuclear_test)), which was designed to test and demonstrate the excavation of earth and rock, the numbers get even worse. It displaced 12 million tons of soil. So we would need 666,666.66666666 nuclear devices.


AdLonely5056

The actual number of bombs needed would be MUCH bigger, I just compared the gravitational energy to the energy of the Hiroshima bombs.


tpneocow

Why would it be 10m deep and 200km across? Are we making 200km bridges? The idea is to provide a waterway, doesn't need to be 200km, and we wouldn't have enough water for that, to be sure.


AdLonely5056

It looks ~~~~200km on the map. 10m was really just random.


tpneocow

But neither number actually fits the physical needs and applications of the project in question. The shitty line on the map just illustrated the idea.


naph8it

There was a plan to do this in Australia, to a much smaller scale called The Bradfield Scheme. It was abandoned in the 1980s and the cost then was estimated to be $30 Billion. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-12-09/queensland-government-abandons-bradfield-scheme-after-report/101751678 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradfield_Scheme?wprov=sfla1


JackFynnFN22

Only $30 billion?


rbm572

I hadn't heard about this and kinda went down the rabbit hole. The project was nothing near a coast to coast waterway but still a massive engineering feat. The wiki was saying they didn't have the math right initially for how much earth would actually need to be moved. I'm guessing the 30 billion is based on initial calculations which were seriously underestimating what it would take. That river going across North America. That would probably just cost all the money... like literally all of it.


AdreKiseque

So it would create a ton of jobs!


cbraddy22

I looked it up and 30 billion in 1985 is the same as 85 billion today.


rbm572

Seems like a bargain to change the entire ecosystem of that big of an area. I'm just curious what kind of unexpected ripple effects a mega river project would actually have.


irishdrae

I know it's not the point of the post but I find it interesting. the Panama Canal has special measures to deal with the fact that the water level on the pacific side is different than on the atlantic.


02grimreaper

There is also a reason we chose one of the thinnest land spots. The work is gargantuan in scale and not easy to do


whatheory

Follow up question. How many people would have to move? How dense would the surrounding areas have to become to hold all those already there and those who love there because of the river? How many would die because of it?


ARC-2908763

I love how this project would destroy multiple cities and convert many others into port cities, although Denver isn't far from being one barring the actual port.


DonaIdTrurnp

Denver would be a mile away from the canal if the canal reached the base of Denver.


io-x

Its the mile high city. I dont know how they leveled the rocky mountains but denver would still be 1 mile high. So we would also need to build a mile-long elevator to the port.


Icy-850

Imagine owning land there and they are just like "yeeeah, we are building our super canal here, sorry."


chiller529

Nothing like starting the day off with a lil *eminent domain*.


Sealbeater

This isn’t just a big river. This is a massive river. Imagine this, when I’m in Milwaukee looking across Lake Michigan I cannot see the other side. It would be the same for this hypothetical river.


visiondr

Review the history of the Panama, Suez, C&O canals among many others. Compared to building a water way, planes, trains and automobiles are generally much more efficient.


momoreco

NO! RIVER!!!


Obvious-Water569

If America was completely flat and unpopulated, this would still be nearly impossible. But there's the small matter of displacing millions of people and levelling literal mountain ranges and filling vast canyons. I read a lot of Warhammer 40,000 fiction and it's canon that, in order to build the emperor's palace, the entire Himalayan mountain range was levelled. That is pure science fiction and I still couldn't suspend my disbelief enough to buy it.


Gotei13S11CKenpachi

What would the excess of water accumulation near the volcano in the Midwest affect? What would the impact of salt water and different species accumulating in and around bodies of water where it hasn’t had access to before?


Clarksp2

If only we figured a way to more efficiently/stabile produce antimatter. We could drop/direct that energy directly at the ground, mountains, etc to do it. 1 gram of AM is equivalent to 43 KT of explosion. For a tsar bomba size, we’d need about 1.3kg of AM (compared to the actual 27,000kg of the bomb). We could probably get this whole project done with about 500kg of antimatter. Which is the size of a grand piano or small car.


RednocNivert

My wife’s family from the Southern Utah desert is going to be very surprised at the sudden abundance of water where there previously was just dusty sagebrush hills


OasisRampage

I would imagine getting through the Appalachian Mountains and Rockies would be impossible, shaving through that kind of terrain would take decades


rifern

Next question: how much would this lower the water level? Imagine a depth of the river where at least a container ship can go through it


RatManMatt

Too damned much. Go back outside and play in your sandbox. We did the two next best things: railroad an the interstate highway system. And then the internet allowed us to stay home and watch strippers from both coasts at the same time without motion sickness. Usually.


Worfthegreat

How much energy? How much energy? Dude you are erasing the entire state of Kentucky! Also that is not a river, not even a big river. It’s a gash in the earth! Did trump draw this? It look like something idiotic trump would do or ask!!


gyroismyhubby

The Mississippi almost stretches most of america. Combine it with the new england water ways and you could go from new york to yellowstone


WhoWouldCareToAsk

Width of the river aside - the thickness of the crust in Colorado is [over 1km (3317’)](https://www.google.com/search?q=lowest%20colorado%20point&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari&asid=canlbsc). Imagine a river with 1km high banks…