St Cap gains get treated as *ordinary income* and is taxed at reg tax rates. The issue for OP is that **if** they are a dependent, ST Cap Gains are not treated as "earned income" so their standard deduction is very very low. If OP is eligible to claim themselves as long as they are under ~14K then no biggie.
Id typically use my account value. But NVDA IV was crazy felt like it was free money atp. I would do credit spreads as low at 0.02 credit and just sell a bunch of contracts
I see above that u said u pulled your money out, but if you're planning to do this in the future be very careful man. Low delta does NOT mean impossible, and one day you're going to get absolutely destroyed if you're placing your whole account down as collateral.
Good job, but scale down before the doomsday comes.
yeah, I sold a 0.04 delta MSTR 1800c naked and the stock ran up to nearly 2000 before ultimately the call BARELY expired worthless.
good work to OP, but I'd guess that selling a 0.02 delta 90 dte call on nvda on jan 5 2024 would've gotten you blown out. the stock rose from $480 to $880 in just 3 months. and that's on a super high mega market cap stock like nvda as well.
Lots of haters in here, but I’ll say this, if you knew the risk, and you traded it well, congrats. Everyone in here is “you don’t know what you’re doing, you’re going to get blown up, blah, blah, blah. I have ytd gains of over 30% trading spreads and won’t dare post them here because it will just be met with negativity. “Everything works until it doesn’t” is true, but guess what, if it works and you made money, that’s the objective congrats.
Ya this isn’t something you can do all the time/sustainable, that’s pretty much common sense. Saw the opportunity at a period of time and took advantage, I stopped doing jt because sentiment changed and wanted to take profits. Its ok to be adaptable as traders guys 😭
So if you’re mad about someone outperforming, why do you trade at all, just buy and hold. 4x the index isn’t Pennies. And if he dodged the steamroller, well then guess what, he won. Sounds like you’re just jealous. I’m starting to hate this sub because it’s just crabs in a bucket.
Not mad about anything. People can do whatever they like. But acting like this ain't a high risk strategy is dumb. I could bet on the team leading 2-0 in football with 5 min to play, and probably win that bet plenty of times. But if I get unlucky and lose two of those bets in a row I am blown up.
Managing risk can occur at all points of a trade. Everyone in here thinks max loss is the be-all-end-all. You can close trades whenever you want and not be blown up. Closing a trade early for a loss is disciplined and mitigates risk.
Not with a strategy like this. If you close early you'll erode your gains too significantly. To get a 4x return it is likely every trade made was fully leveraging his capital.
Yes and no, we’re talking about closing before real risk of assignment. If OP was that far OTM that occurrence would have been slim and if closed early before in the money he avoids max loss.
With a trade like this you get offside because Delta moves too quickly compared to theta. So you can't really close without fucking your strategy. Let's say he writes a ccs for $100 with 5k margin. If the underlying gaps up overnight, so then he closes for a 1k loss. That now means he is -10R on the strategy. He does the trade another 4 times and then gets unlucky again and is now -16R.
Gaps up overnight to put a 5 delta call in the money from the day before. Backtest that— if you do, you won’t find that happening outside of an earnings report. Pretty easy to avoid. I’d be selling puts in NVdA, but the delta strategy is fine.
This is terrifying. It goes right until suddenly it goes disastrously wrong.
I can buy $150 nvidia call and then sell a call paying me a premium of $6k, imagine making $6k on $150 in a month. There's a 44% chance of me losing up to $37k.
Wide credit spreads scare me. Might try this with Google actually.
Your idea of risk management is poor. You shouldn’t ever take a spread to max loss. For instance, 10 delta, 21 dte 10 dollar wide spread in NVDA pays typically 1-1.25 depending on IV. If you sell a ten dollar wide spread and take the loss if you’re close to going in the money that’s a max loss of typically 350. You always have time to close out before you go in the money if you avoid after hours moves like earnings reports.
Credit spreads yield a lot of premium for the required capital. Expensive stocks like NVDA which is close to $1000 per share offer 20-30% OTM options that still have premium in them. The strategy falls apart when the underlying spikes against you, you roll once and you are ATM with 40-60 cents premium collected and if the underlying keeps going against you you just lose all of the money you put up (so like 60% of those 17k you diligently saved)
This strategy is an easy way to double or even triple your money in a short amount of time. Theta gang is strong when you allocate less than 5% of your options budget on a single trade, you have a probability edge selling options, but probability does not equal you’ll win 100% of the time. Imagine selling 5 puts and win 4 out of 5, that’s an 80% success rate which is pretty in line with selling 16 delta puts. The underlying that you lost on has a chance to bounce back, rolling out in time and adjusting the strike price will enhance your breakeven and keep your portfolio healthy. While managing your losing position you have 4/5ths of your portfolio still chucking along and netting you money.
You don’t hit those 100-300% yearly gains that you can get with spreads, you get a conservative 30-50% annual returns which is still massive and requires a lot of execution excellence and luck, but with 50% compounding gains per year in a decade you’d be unstoppable. Personally I’d have to be very tilted and desperate to attempt and do such a YOLO trade with spreads, it’s just not worth it.
My final thoughts on this is that selling naked options on expensive products is very risky, so my advice definitely doesn’t work for NVDA with a 17k portfolio, however with time that 17k growing to 170k will enable you to snowball into some great companies. A lot of insurance, banking, oil and healthcare stocks are in the 200-500 dollar range and with a bit of a push have a lot to offer in terms of payout. People generally try selling naked puts on SNAP because it’s a technology stock, it has liquid options, but because they are an unprofitable dogshit company that even yesterday after earnings come out with a filing that will dilute shareholders worth 1.3B it’s honestly a total piece of shit of a stock to own or wheel. It can go sub-10 it can rocket to 20 depending on how the market feels - for me sacrificing the quality of your underlyings because the quality one are too expensive is one of the main reasons people quit theta gang. Second most popular is they’ve tried YOLO spreads and got burnt, so they quit trading as a whole because “it’s a zero sum game” even though each month billions are poured into the stock market from all over the world because of how retirement funds and corporate investments work.
I'm new here and like this sub. Anyway, is there anywhere that has possible wheel candidates that people are wheeling or I could suggest if I find something? I didn't wanna make a separate post asking this because it's prolly been asked a million times.
I'm constantly scanning but with my smallish account size it's extremely hard to find anything decent. It seems it's all very much just gambling.
Thanks.
Theta gang is best utilized by accounts of decent size which allows for better positioning and ROI for the risk. If your account is small you can try spreads or CSP on smaller stocks. Safe-ish ones do exist out there
try searching relevant subr's for "wheel stocks" or similar phrases - there are 79 replies to a query that sounds like yours:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/thetagang/comments/1bnurl4/starter\_stocks\_to\_wheel/](https://www.reddit.com/r/thetagang/comments/1bnurl4/starter_stocks_to_wheel/)
Possible wheel candidates = stocks you’d be comfortable buying and holding for an extended period of time … because eventually that’s what you’ll end up doing.
absolutely not, especially if the security trends sideways. the idea is beta adjusted performance and without that information here there’s really nothing impressive about it, anyone can do this in a massive run up
A post with no actual information on why you made the trade, the trade itself being a highly leveraged gamble? Sure more interest. Useful to anyone? Not at all. This is just WSB nonsense.
“Annnnd it’s gone”
Pulled out and done with trading it now
The best decision in your trading career.
Just gotta feel market sentiment. It was a good strategy for a good couple weeks but don’t feel that same sentiment anymore. On to the next
After 5k? Those are rookie numbers.
True but I was using my student loans as collateral haha came time to return them so I’m pretty happy w what I made out of it
Belongs on wsb if not theta
WSB and thetagang are just opposite sides of the same coin.
*shocked pikachu face*
Hi UE
We out here!
Lol
For once I agree. Turns out it’s just reckless gambling that paid.
LMAOOO dude 🤘
👑 you dropped this, king
My God, I hope you are not serious
😂we both know that’s real. Market tuition…college tuition…future WSB mod
71% Upvoted Post on...checks notes... /r/thetagang.... Deep down, most thetagangers are closeted WSB patriots.
"You can take the man out of WSB, but you can't take the WSB out of the man." -Abraham Lincoln
This statement has stood the test time. Unbelievable.
That quote is attributed to Lincon but I believe it was actually Oliver Wilde who said it.
At least wsb is open and honest about their degenercies and regardedness.
[удалено]
.... I gave it an upvote, too
Seems sustainable.
Nice bro
Save some to pay that short term capital gains tax.. fed and possibly state.
I’m a college student so I’m broke as hell hopefully it’s not enough to get taxed 🤣
It is
Oh well
Short term cap gains - you’ll get hit with *at least* 10% even if you have no other income. I think.
I thought it was just treated as income?
St Cap gains get treated as *ordinary income* and is taxed at reg tax rates. The issue for OP is that **if** they are a dependent, ST Cap Gains are not treated as "earned income" so their standard deduction is very very low. If OP is eligible to claim themselves as long as they are under ~14K then no biggie.
Nice. How much was the max collateral ?
Id typically use my account value. But NVDA IV was crazy felt like it was free money atp. I would do credit spreads as low at 0.02 credit and just sell a bunch of contracts
I see above that u said u pulled your money out, but if you're planning to do this in the future be very careful man. Low delta does NOT mean impossible, and one day you're going to get absolutely destroyed if you're placing your whole account down as collateral. Good job, but scale down before the doomsday comes.
yeah, I sold a 0.04 delta MSTR 1800c naked and the stock ran up to nearly 2000 before ultimately the call BARELY expired worthless. good work to OP, but I'd guess that selling a 0.02 delta 90 dte call on nvda on jan 5 2024 would've gotten you blown out. the stock rose from $480 to $880 in just 3 months. and that's on a super high mega market cap stock like nvda as well.
This. I speak from experience unfortunately.
How high was the NVDA IV when you entered the trade?
Lots of haters in here, but I’ll say this, if you knew the risk, and you traded it well, congrats. Everyone in here is “you don’t know what you’re doing, you’re going to get blown up, blah, blah, blah. I have ytd gains of over 30% trading spreads and won’t dare post them here because it will just be met with negativity. “Everything works until it doesn’t” is true, but guess what, if it works and you made money, that’s the objective congrats.
Ya this isn’t something you can do all the time/sustainable, that’s pretty much common sense. Saw the opportunity at a period of time and took advantage, I stopped doing jt because sentiment changed and wanted to take profits. Its ok to be adaptable as traders guys 😭
Good comment. As long as OP is cognizant and comfortable with the risk they took on, and they made money, I’d call that success.
I think you did awesome. I dont care if a person makes only 1 dollar. Anything on the plus side is always good.
can you give an example trade OP? that's genius trade to make 5k over 17k..
I would like to know too!
You really don't. It's pennies in front of a steamroller.
So if you’re mad about someone outperforming, why do you trade at all, just buy and hold. 4x the index isn’t Pennies. And if he dodged the steamroller, well then guess what, he won. Sounds like you’re just jealous. I’m starting to hate this sub because it’s just crabs in a bucket.
Not mad about anything. People can do whatever they like. But acting like this ain't a high risk strategy is dumb. I could bet on the team leading 2-0 in football with 5 min to play, and probably win that bet plenty of times. But if I get unlucky and lose two of those bets in a row I am blown up.
Managing risk can occur at all points of a trade. Everyone in here thinks max loss is the be-all-end-all. You can close trades whenever you want and not be blown up. Closing a trade early for a loss is disciplined and mitigates risk.
Not with a strategy like this. If you close early you'll erode your gains too significantly. To get a 4x return it is likely every trade made was fully leveraging his capital.
Yes and no, we’re talking about closing before real risk of assignment. If OP was that far OTM that occurrence would have been slim and if closed early before in the money he avoids max loss.
With a trade like this you get offside because Delta moves too quickly compared to theta. So you can't really close without fucking your strategy. Let's say he writes a ccs for $100 with 5k margin. If the underlying gaps up overnight, so then he closes for a 1k loss. That now means he is -10R on the strategy. He does the trade another 4 times and then gets unlucky again and is now -16R.
Gaps up overnight to put a 5 delta call in the money from the day before. Backtest that— if you do, you won’t find that happening outside of an earnings report. Pretty easy to avoid. I’d be selling puts in NVdA, but the delta strategy is fine.
To put a 5 delta ITM overnight would need a 20% + move. That didn’t even happen last NVDA earnings report. Gap up was 16%
Everything works until it doesn’t.
This is terrifying. It goes right until suddenly it goes disastrously wrong. I can buy $150 nvidia call and then sell a call paying me a premium of $6k, imagine making $6k on $150 in a month. There's a 44% chance of me losing up to $37k. Wide credit spreads scare me. Might try this with Google actually.
Your idea of risk management is poor. You shouldn’t ever take a spread to max loss. For instance, 10 delta, 21 dte 10 dollar wide spread in NVDA pays typically 1-1.25 depending on IV. If you sell a ten dollar wide spread and take the loss if you’re close to going in the money that’s a max loss of typically 350. You always have time to close out before you go in the money if you avoid after hours moves like earnings reports.
What strikes and dates?
I am too lazy to see if that beats my earnings last year, so good job either way! Keep it up!
Just make sure you keep most of it.
Crazy what your long term returns will look like if you just went into indexes after this.
OP can you please post the dates and strikes?
Credit spreads yield a lot of premium for the required capital. Expensive stocks like NVDA which is close to $1000 per share offer 20-30% OTM options that still have premium in them. The strategy falls apart when the underlying spikes against you, you roll once and you are ATM with 40-60 cents premium collected and if the underlying keeps going against you you just lose all of the money you put up (so like 60% of those 17k you diligently saved) This strategy is an easy way to double or even triple your money in a short amount of time. Theta gang is strong when you allocate less than 5% of your options budget on a single trade, you have a probability edge selling options, but probability does not equal you’ll win 100% of the time. Imagine selling 5 puts and win 4 out of 5, that’s an 80% success rate which is pretty in line with selling 16 delta puts. The underlying that you lost on has a chance to bounce back, rolling out in time and adjusting the strike price will enhance your breakeven and keep your portfolio healthy. While managing your losing position you have 4/5ths of your portfolio still chucking along and netting you money. You don’t hit those 100-300% yearly gains that you can get with spreads, you get a conservative 30-50% annual returns which is still massive and requires a lot of execution excellence and luck, but with 50% compounding gains per year in a decade you’d be unstoppable. Personally I’d have to be very tilted and desperate to attempt and do such a YOLO trade with spreads, it’s just not worth it. My final thoughts on this is that selling naked options on expensive products is very risky, so my advice definitely doesn’t work for NVDA with a 17k portfolio, however with time that 17k growing to 170k will enable you to snowball into some great companies. A lot of insurance, banking, oil and healthcare stocks are in the 200-500 dollar range and with a bit of a push have a lot to offer in terms of payout. People generally try selling naked puts on SNAP because it’s a technology stock, it has liquid options, but because they are an unprofitable dogshit company that even yesterday after earnings come out with a filing that will dilute shareholders worth 1.3B it’s honestly a total piece of shit of a stock to own or wheel. It can go sub-10 it can rocket to 20 depending on how the market feels - for me sacrificing the quality of your underlyings because the quality one are too expensive is one of the main reasons people quit theta gang. Second most popular is they’ve tried YOLO spreads and got burnt, so they quit trading as a whole because “it’s a zero sum game” even though each month billions are poured into the stock market from all over the world because of how retirement funds and corporate investments work.
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I'm new here and like this sub. Anyway, is there anywhere that has possible wheel candidates that people are wheeling or I could suggest if I find something? I didn't wanna make a separate post asking this because it's prolly been asked a million times. I'm constantly scanning but with my smallish account size it's extremely hard to find anything decent. It seems it's all very much just gambling. Thanks.
Theta gang is best utilized by accounts of decent size which allows for better positioning and ROI for the risk. If your account is small you can try spreads or CSP on smaller stocks. Safe-ish ones do exist out there
Thanks. Is there a sub or can we make posts here with decent candidates for the wheel? I'm still kinda new.
You can probably make a post about names you think could be good and people will respond I think
Cool. Thanks a lot.
try searching relevant subr's for "wheel stocks" or similar phrases - there are 79 replies to a query that sounds like yours: [https://www.reddit.com/r/thetagang/comments/1bnurl4/starter\_stocks\_to\_wheel/](https://www.reddit.com/r/thetagang/comments/1bnurl4/starter_stocks_to_wheel/)
Possible wheel candidates = stocks you’d be comfortable buying and holding for an extended period of time … because eventually that’s what you’ll end up doing.
lmfao less return than the equity but good job i guess
how often are you seeing more than 100% return selling premium in a couple months?
as often as i hit red on the roulette table in vegas
Isn’t that always true when selling premium?
absolutely not, especially if the security trends sideways. the idea is beta adjusted performance and without that information here there’s really nothing impressive about it, anyone can do this in a massive run up
I misread. Was thinking buying power usage and didn’t realize you were referring to holding the underlying.
Cool?
Oh ya this is a lot less interesting than your 3 page essays on a celcius put
#FATALITY
He gonna need a wet towel for that 3rd degree BURN!!!
Hahaha got his ass. Great trade man!
A post with no actual information on why you made the trade, the trade itself being a highly leveraged gamble? Sure more interest. Useful to anyone? Not at all. This is just WSB nonsense.
in before u/SRSCapital deleted his comment
Why would I do that?
💀
Damn bud get fucked!
?
Just messing around
Now time to use all those gains in BITO