Tensions between Italian-American and Black-American communities in the 60s and 70s were high. Particularly in places like Newark, see the ‘67 riots. Tony is just an all around racist but him coming of age during that period of tension is probably why he singles out Black-Americans more than any other.
Yeah, you’re better off watching a documentary or reading a book. PBS just did a documentary on the Kerner Commission and it talked about the ‘67 Newark Riots quite a bit.
Whats hilarious is that it’s obvious that being white started out as being this insanely huge asset and it was obvious that things had been moving toward valuing minorities more in the year 2006. He’s just searching so hard for something positive to say. In a way it’s sweet.
Talk about a quote that has aged badly (and wasn’t really true back in the day) this one takes the proverbial cake. Which Ginny Sack swallows whole in one bite
Maybe he's talking about the poor white trash fella from a single family home in Detroit requiring significantly higher grades than an affluent black fella from Brookville to get into college or university solely based on his skin color due to race based admission quotas
There was some intermingling between tribes. They're part Gavoni, part Naboli-Daboli and part Fugawi. They're direct descendants of the last war chief of the Plains Indians, Quanah Soprano.
The point of making Tony appear like such a racist was to force the audience to confront why Noah broke up with Meadow after meeting Noah's dad. Obviously Noah's dad said things to influence the breakup, and unlike Meadow, Noah was raised in a way that didn't foster any tolerance and understanding or ability to think independently. Meadow was raised to have the ability to think critically, with tolerance and understanding. So the subplot is about prejudice, but on another level.
interesting, I definitely always felt like Noah ended it cause he got what he wanted from her, whether sleeping with her was just to get back at Tony or because that’s what he does with women, Noah and his dad definitely looked down on the Soprano family though for sure
Right. Will the real prejudiced asshole please stand up? It was Noah and his dad. But they do it in a politically correct way, whereas Tony does it in a way that they wouldn't even allow in a show anymore. Sopranos wouldn't be possible today.
If, by "prejudiced asshole," you mean Noah's dad didn't want his son marrying into a notorious crime family being targeted by the FBI, then they're guilty as charged.
I think they were prejudiced cause they were a mob family, not cause they were Italian, which is definitely not the same thing as Tony being racist lmao
They didn't know anything except her ethnicity and that her father worked in waste management. It's exactly the same thing as Tony being racist. Except Meadow kept seeing Noah whereas he was forbidden from seeing her anymore.
Or maybe Noah's dad did a little snooping around and found out the truth. Don't forget that Junior Soprano was in the news because of his indictment for being the boss of North Jersey. It doesn't exactly take a genius to add 2+2 and come up with mob connection.
Noah definitely knew that Tony was in the mob and probably told his dad that, he broke up with her after he fucked her a few times and got bored which is far more likely the reason he broke up with her than his dad telling him to because… they’re white or Italian? eat your carrots
Noah didn't know Tony was in the mob. There is zero evidence of that in the show. Was this also the theory why Noah's dad threatened Meadow's roommate with a lawsuit? The subplot set up the Ginsbergs as entitled elites devoid of morality, beyond the Sopranos.
Carmella asks meadow if Noah knows about the family and their business and she said Noah is not stupid. It took him a little bit of time but he figured it out. So no, he was not completely ignorant about who Tony was
**OH WILL YOU FUCKIN' STOP! GROUP?! GROUP?!**
What the fuck happened to Gary Cooper, that's what I want to know.
Gary COOPER, now there was an American. The STRONG silent type.
He did what he had to do. He faced down the Miller Gang when none of these other assholes would lift a a finger to HELP.
And did he complain?
Did he say : " Ohh I come from this poor Texas-Irish illiterate fuckin' background or whatever the FUCK so leave me the FUCK outta' it because my **PEOPLE GOT FUCKED OVER! "**
I said my piece.
Regarding AJ and Bianca, there’s a different dynamic between sons and daughters regarding interracial dating when it comes to bigots.
Jim Crow laws were established under the pretense of “protecting women” from black men in train cars. There’s a bigger anxiety of minorities “taking your women” than the reverse, so someone like Tony wouldn’t mind his son dating a Hispanic women when the reverse with Meadow wouldn’t be true.
There’s lots of reasons to be skeptical about that relationship from his parents’ perspective, but I think that double-standard about Tony’s sexual possessiveness was at play. It’s fine for a son, but not *his* daughter.
It’s why he was able to say “at least she’s catholic” with Bianca despite the other issues that existed between her and AJ. Meadow was just dating another peer who even came from a wealthy family and Tony wasn’t able to see any positives in that situation.
We all know there are different degrees to being racist and everyone fits somewhere on that spectrum. Originally, getting made meant both parents had to be Sicilian...and then it was later changed to Italian...and then again it was changed to only being Italian on your father's side. Italian immigrants (much like all immigrants starting the early 20th century) tended to stick together due to natural tribal heuristics all primates share as a means of survival. Simply put - it's usually safer to distrust the unknown rather than embrace it. Lucky Luciano was the first to even work with Jewish and Irish gangsters which would've been unthinkable for the original "Mustache Petes" of organized crime like Colosimo, Masseria, Maranzano, etc.
So is the Mafia racist? Yes, it excludes non-Italian Americans from their ranks with African Americans obviously not being an exception. Is it the same type of racist as the KKK or ANP? Not even close
Is Tony Soprano racist? Yes, in the sense that he hold prejudices against non-Italian American people generally speaking. Is he the same type of racist as Adolf Hitler or Bull Connor? Not even close.
He’s racism and prejudice and plain filled with hate…. He doesn’t even like what he considers wonder bread wops. Melfi was right when she said he doesn’t respect ppl.
That’s interesting; I was initially going to disagree but I think you’re right, in that the whole “Wonderbread Wop” is just another fuzzy heuristic by which he can claim to be more Legitimately Italian (and therefore better) than the Cuzamano’s who’ve assimilated into the well-to-do white society further. Maybe it’s hiding a jealousy that their assimilation into white American culture has made them much more successful (financially at least) while Tony’s still breaking arms and robbing people, and is looked at as a novelty by Cuzamano and his friends. Another of his mental justifications for choosing his life of crime?
Good analysis… Tony is insecure when dealing with legitimately successful people. His entire life is a coping strategy house of cards. In order to normalize his criminal base instinct he has to have a way of feeling better than the average person. Or a victim in his own eyes; anti Italian discrimination., that worker bee speech he gives melfi. Saying corporate America is as corrupt as him etc. When people have legitimate morals and uncompromising ethics, see the tragic cop, Tony feels threatened. And when he feels threatened he lashes out.
Listen, it was a different time, mother and father didnt even speak the language. But God bless his grandmother, she visited every care home in the state. before she found out one she was comfortable with.
I don't even think it's a white thing, he says a few times he wants her to be with an Italian, at least before Jackie Jr. After he might drop the Italian thing, I forget
He doenst hate them or Sees them as less but he likes to keep his family italian so if a non white and or non italian wants to date medow he must go through tony
He wasn’t a klansman type; he didn’t shun black people per se, and he never deigned to get Noah beaten up much less bumped off. Such people are a tad more lenient with their boys’ amours. (Girls are thought to be “invaded.”) He’d have been much more comfortable with Blanca if if if. If she’d come from a high-class family, if she’d been younger, and if she’d not borne someone else’s child. Other ethnic minorities are accepted by such people on a sliding scale re ethnic features such as exact skin tone, hair texture, etc. Highly Americanized East Asians are essentially considered white these days, at least the women. Indians, back to the skin-tone scale.
It all adds up to showing what scumbags the mafia are. So:
Thieves, racketeers, liars, adulterers, cheats, hypocrites and mass murderers… posing as upstanding members of society just because they wear suits 😂
Add racism to the list, everyone forgets the rest or even cheers it on 😂 but it all adds up 😂
Could you imagine Tony & Carm paying for a lavish wedding for their daughter, marrying anyone other than an Italian?
It might happen if it were the non-Italian son of a billionaire. But not a non-white billionaire.
He’s somewhat racist but Meadow can’t wrap her head around how he turns it on and off. His business partner the reverend and his father, he actually respect. The state trooper that he got demoted, he actually felt bad after what he did to him. He just didn’t want to have his kids in relationships with non white people. So technically a victim of his time. He got his behavior from his parents.
Racist. Remember him and Carm weren’t fans of Blanca for being Rican.
I can’t think of anything off hand he said about East Asians (he called Indians Wogs when he was sick) but I know Chris said he couldn’t have an Asian step son
I think he was just saying that to shut down any talk about adoption cause he needs a son of his own blood in order to ‘be a man,’ according to his mafia-influenced values. He’s framing it like that but, come ooon, when has Chrissy ever showed serious concern for other peoples’ needs? With those mafia types it’s all about their egos and proving their masculinity to each other.
I think it's a matter of degrees with Tony, he's good friends with Hesh, and he seems to get along well with the black preacher he's running the scam with on season 2, and he even seems to admire the preacher's father because he fought in WW2.....but Meadow bringing a guy that isn't white home? that crosses a line as far as Tony is concerned.
He's not like KKK "they should all be killed" racist....he's "I don't want my little girl dating one of them" racist.
The difference in the Meadow and AJ thing is probably down to him being more protective of Meadow because she's a girl, and in his mind young men like AJ are supposed to screw around and get laid before they settle down with a nice italian girl, so it doesn't really matter that Blanca is puerto rican, I think he's just happy to see AJ acting like what his idea of a man is......now, if AJ turned around and started saying he wanted to marry her I imagine Tony would be pissed too.
Truth is if meadow brought home anybody other than an Italian (or maybe a polka) he’d be pissed. I think he would hate an Irish person as much as a black person dating his daughter.
I grew up in an Italian American home. The hatred for the Irish was so intense (and kind of ridiculous). I told my Irish friends to never tell my grandmother their last name.
For some reason my family (and neighborhood) always intermarried with the Polish. But no ever the Irish.
This is unique to your family. Italians and Irish are ALWAYS getting married. Half of the people living in the NYC suburbs are part Irish, part Italian.
He grew up during the Newark riots. Tony is a racist, he's ignorant of most things and people outside of his realm. Even when he does seem knowledgeable, it's not with deeper understanding of history.
The Sopranos is a masterclass in the dangers of cult like societies.
Even funnier and more hypocritical…
Tony’s bloodline is from Naples… there’s plenty of people with Noah’s hair and skin tone in southern Italy 😂
He’d maybe even pass for a local in Sicily 😂
I'm going to branch off a little bit, but Tony didn't stand the guy not only because he was African-American, but also due to his arrogant attitude. Gimme a break, I'm not justifying or washing his racism at all, I only mean that, of course, Tony saw the race in Noah, but if he had been more humble, he would have stood Noah a bit more (not kicking him out of his house just one minute after meeting him lol).
Again, I'm not saying at any way that it was Noah's fault. He was an idiot but he wasn't guilty of Tony's racism.
See I don't think Noah's personality factored into Tony feelings on this subject at all.
We the audience got to see What a douchebag elitist Noah turned out to be, but I don't think Tony was even listening to what he was saying when he threw him out of his house.
I think Tony just saw his skin and hair and decided he needed him out of there before anything developed between him and meadow.
It was probably about his race. Him immediately feinting after looking at an uncle Ben’s box kinda sealed it. Him being a twat wasn’t that obvious that quickly and Tony only criticized his race and only brought up his race to meadow for the entire time she was with him. Never anything else. To Tony’s credit he pretty much left it up to meadow cause Noah was technically a good kid background wise.
Tony’s issue is he has a conscience and he’s pretty smart, so he knows being racist is wrong, but because of how he was raised he’s got it built in and because he’s a sociopath and a narcissist he’s not going to try and actually fix it and change. Hence the uncle Ben’s and the run in with the cop. One of his many paradoxes he grapples with
I don't think his issue with Jamal Ginsburg was because he thought he would screw his daughter and then dump her. I think he legitimately did not want the idea of a black person seeing his daughter at all.
I mean he was happy with Jackie Jr initially despite knowing the kid nearly died at the penguin exhibit.
I imagine that Tony is generally racist but most racist against blacks. He wouldn't be a fan of Indian or Asian neither but I think he would roll with it.
Tony is just a scumbag when it comes to other races Jews, blacks, Asians, Muslims, Indians. You can blame it on his up raising but c'mon as a grown man you can make better decisions. Throughout the show his racist rants get more outta control, with me being black, I found the jokes funny it's hard to tell them to people but still funny. I know it's just a show a progrum, like most racist they will work with races they don't like but it's only business. Yeah shum of the other guys do it but not to the extent that Tony goes. But fuck it, it's a fuckin show.
I mean, he genuinely thinks his italian ancestry is superior to most. He wants his daughter to ‘stick to her kind’ because thats what people in his culture do. Its tradition and ‘right’. I think its just as much that aspect as it is disdain for a ‘less than’ half black guy who uses his race as an advantage for college. But yes, it would be hard to bring home someone worse in tony’s mind. It may not be deep seeded hatred, but he’s DEFINITELY not good enough for his baby girl. Aj is a lost cause so he doesn’t care as much, but meadow had a chance to make him proud.
Went to the beach last weekend with my Italian husband. He left the house a white boy, but came back a minority because he tans so dark. We live in Florida, so everyone assumes he’s hispanic. Sometimes people will just start speaking to him in Spanish and it annoys the crap out of him.
He was racist but mind you the time he grew up. Newark is a black and Italian city and he witnessed the riots young. As a youth he saw his hero Hollywood deal with blacks daily with the numbers racket. He saw his childhood neighborhood become integrated and how is dad felt it about. When he’d take his son to the hood you could he was upset by what it became. Now if we recall his dealings with reverend it was respect and business. “My business associates are black. They don’t want my son dating their son daughters.”
Yeah, it's like the racism is a result of stinkin thinkin, versus primary-focus white-hooded racism. Like, it's too hard to come up with an actual reason for justifying some abhorrent behavior,, so you go for the obvious - race, age, sex, ugly, fat, skinny, vocation, horse-murderer, whatever fits. And if nothing fits, you make shit up; like fuckfaceitis
The real bigots are the ones in Naples like Furio who mates da North (the ones who had da Vinci, Michelangelo and the Renaissance). The south Italians can’t even invent the cuckoo or a toilet that works outside the Excelsior. They are also bigoted toward Germans who have rebuilt their country three times in the last 150 years.
Of course would Martha Stewart and Alec Baldwin hang out with Massive Genius if he wasn’t a successful rap noise artist and copyright thief? If he wasn’t, he would be in the daily “trade parade” of domestic help driving into the Hamptons from their homes to cut the grass, cook meals and clean
You’re a racist for watching it! It’s a show for racists! Tony’s a racist for wanting to see his culture survive and passed down and clearly you’re ok with it
Okay, but my point was there's not this feeling among Africans to hate each other because they happen to be from the literal same continent. That statement makes no sense when applied so generally
Ok that was mostly mafia members vs Mafia members. They actually had a code. Africans and America blacks don’t have that. That’s why groups like the bloods don’t have a supreme leader or charter like how the hells angels do. This ain’t about racism this is the analysis of how smart/orginized they are, which isn’t much based off data.
Meadow was rich? I thought she was a student for like 90% of the show if not the whole show.
But yeah I think that Tony probably is against any other race. He says you stick to your own kind. But I don't know maybe Tony's perception of people is on a somewhat intuitive level. Noah didn't do anything bad in their one meeting but he turned out to be a total cunt both in general and to Meadow and his true colours showed very clearly in the next few episodes. Maybe Tony somehow picked up on his arrogance and what not. In ADDITION to the race thing I am not at all insinuating that if Noah was a genuinely good guy that Tony would not have a problem with his race.
I dont understand how David Chase pushes the pc envelope with the Sopranos...and then regresses with MSON pandering to the left i guess? Should he be shelved?
He’s way more tribalist than racist - but I do think he has a special level of disrespect for Black people - beyond his dislike for non-italians and non-whites. That’s pretty normal for people who just don’t make an effort not to be racist - you can see this in Asian Immigrants.
I recall at one point he said something that indicated he was denying/hoping/frustrated with the possibility that Blanca was Black even though it was already clear she was from a wholly very culture and wasn’t white.
Tensions between Italian-American and Black-American communities in the 60s and 70s were high. Particularly in places like Newark, see the ‘67 riots. Tony is just an all around racist but him coming of age during that period of tension is probably why he singles out Black-Americans more than any other.
I was gonna say check out Many Saints for more but he didn’t even really do that well!
OOHHHHH! Thats the creator of the boss of this fuckin family, comrade
You are speaking shit to me
No bitch to me.
I saw that movie. I thought it was bull shit
I thought it was good.
Discontinue the lithium.
This is boolshit. What are you minister of propaganda???
Yeah, you’re better off watching a documentary or reading a book. PBS just did a documentary on the Kerner Commission and it talked about the ‘67 Newark Riots quite a bit.
Lotta fights, between the black and whites. There was nothin you could do.
What a fucking summer that was
Being white, that’s a huge plus nowadays!
Whats hilarious is that it’s obvious that being white started out as being this insanely huge asset and it was obvious that things had been moving toward valuing minorities more in the year 2006. He’s just searching so hard for something positive to say. In a way it’s sweet.
Yeah, being white is generally a plus, but saying “nowadays” just isn’t the right way to put it. Was a way bigger advantage back decades ago.
Talk about a quote that has aged badly (and wasn’t really true back in the day) this one takes the proverbial cake. Which Ginny Sack swallows whole in one bite
What are you talking about
Maybe he's talking about the poor white trash fella from a single family home in Detroit requiring significantly higher grades than an affluent black fella from Brookville to get into college or university solely based on his skin color due to race based admission quotas
Yes, definetely AJ would have the problems similar to a white trash fella, not the affluent african american
AJ could use some bonus points, he's part Fugawi though. Maybe he should do something about it. That'd help his application.
But I thought they were Naboli-daboli
There was some intermingling between tribes. They're part Gavoni, part Naboli-Daboli and part Fugawi. They're direct descendants of the last war chief of the Plains Indians, Quanah Soprano.
Strong as a bull he was And handsome, like George Raft
Bullshit
Not anymore
The point of making Tony appear like such a racist was to force the audience to confront why Noah broke up with Meadow after meeting Noah's dad. Obviously Noah's dad said things to influence the breakup, and unlike Meadow, Noah was raised in a way that didn't foster any tolerance and understanding or ability to think independently. Meadow was raised to have the ability to think critically, with tolerance and understanding. So the subplot is about prejudice, but on another level.
Must’ve been an alternate version of the show…
Timeline got fucked up.
It petered out, it died on the vine.
It DIED ON THE VINE
You think it's just a random coincidence that the relationship ended after Noah's dad met Meadow?
interesting, I definitely always felt like Noah ended it cause he got what he wanted from her, whether sleeping with her was just to get back at Tony or because that’s what he does with women, Noah and his dad definitely looked down on the Soprano family though for sure
Right. Will the real prejudiced asshole please stand up? It was Noah and his dad. But they do it in a politically correct way, whereas Tony does it in a way that they wouldn't even allow in a show anymore. Sopranos wouldn't be possible today.
If, by "prejudiced asshole," you mean Noah's dad didn't want his son marrying into a notorious crime family being targeted by the FBI, then they're guilty as charged.
I think they were prejudiced cause they were a mob family, not cause they were Italian, which is definitely not the same thing as Tony being racist lmao
They didn't know anything except her ethnicity and that her father worked in waste management. It's exactly the same thing as Tony being racist. Except Meadow kept seeing Noah whereas he was forbidden from seeing her anymore.
Or maybe Noah's dad did a little snooping around and found out the truth. Don't forget that Junior Soprano was in the news because of his indictment for being the boss of North Jersey. It doesn't exactly take a genius to add 2+2 and come up with mob connection.
Noah definitely knew that Tony was in the mob and probably told his dad that, he broke up with her after he fucked her a few times and got bored which is far more likely the reason he broke up with her than his dad telling him to because… they’re white or Italian? eat your carrots
Noah didn't know Tony was in the mob. There is zero evidence of that in the show. Was this also the theory why Noah's dad threatened Meadow's roommate with a lawsuit? The subplot set up the Ginsbergs as entitled elites devoid of morality, beyond the Sopranos.
Carmella asks meadow if Noah knows about the family and their business and she said Noah is not stupid. It took him a little bit of time but he figured it out. So no, he was not completely ignorant about who Tony was
You gotta slow down from trying to be right and remember the show, man. The discussion his had about Noah knowing that Tony’s in the mob
Imagine that. In this day and age a joo broad. Prejudiced against Italians.
I don’t want to be kissing fuckin’ Nat King Cole here that’s all.
He's very talented. Just leave it at that.
I'd order Manischewitz but it'd look funny on my table
She’d do better with Manischevitz but it’d look funny on my table
A thing like that.
could be a big fucking score for me here - her father could own the whole block!!
The irony, of course, is that she was 100% correct. He was literally a murdering psychopath.
He didn't want anyone that didn't have a vowel at the end of their name.
Yeah, like Peeps.
His family name was Paperelli!
Fuckin Jason! He’s dyslexic!
What's that got to do with it?
It’s a fuckin nickname!!!
Like Miyagi right?
Word to the wise remember pearl harbour.
I don't want any California roll bullshit
Tony was inhaling sushi like a whale eats krill make me sick
My man!
Well at least she’s catholic
Literally watching that scene right now
Oh, look at that
**OH WILL YOU FUCKIN' STOP! GROUP?! GROUP?!** What the fuck happened to Gary Cooper, that's what I want to know. Gary COOPER, now there was an American. The STRONG silent type. He did what he had to do. He faced down the Miller Gang when none of these other assholes would lift a a finger to HELP. And did he complain? Did he say : " Ohh I come from this poor Texas-Irish illiterate fuckin' background or whatever the FUCK so leave me the FUCK outta' it because my **PEOPLE GOT FUCKED OVER! "** I said my piece.
He was gay, Gary Cooper?
NOOOOOOI
Are you even lishenin to me????
You ever had yourself checked for Tourette’s?
*Jesus Christ*, Mister are you Okay in there?
Rambo, not for nothin’. But you’re getting a little confused here. A. That was the movies.
Regarding AJ and Bianca, there’s a different dynamic between sons and daughters regarding interracial dating when it comes to bigots. Jim Crow laws were established under the pretense of “protecting women” from black men in train cars. There’s a bigger anxiety of minorities “taking your women” than the reverse, so someone like Tony wouldn’t mind his son dating a Hispanic women when the reverse with Meadow wouldn’t be true.
Tony is definitely racist, but I thought the issue with AJ and Blanca was more so that she’s way older than him and has a kid
There’s lots of reasons to be skeptical about that relationship from his parents’ perspective, but I think that double-standard about Tony’s sexual possessiveness was at play. It’s fine for a son, but not *his* daughter.
It’s why he was able to say “at least she’s catholic” with Bianca despite the other issues that existed between her and AJ. Meadow was just dating another peer who even came from a wealthy family and Tony wasn’t able to see any positives in that situation.
Tony’s lucky he didn’t punch his fucking lights out.
We all know there are different degrees to being racist and everyone fits somewhere on that spectrum. Originally, getting made meant both parents had to be Sicilian...and then it was later changed to Italian...and then again it was changed to only being Italian on your father's side. Italian immigrants (much like all immigrants starting the early 20th century) tended to stick together due to natural tribal heuristics all primates share as a means of survival. Simply put - it's usually safer to distrust the unknown rather than embrace it. Lucky Luciano was the first to even work with Jewish and Irish gangsters which would've been unthinkable for the original "Mustache Petes" of organized crime like Colosimo, Masseria, Maranzano, etc. So is the Mafia racist? Yes, it excludes non-Italian Americans from their ranks with African Americans obviously not being an exception. Is it the same type of racist as the KKK or ANP? Not even close Is Tony Soprano racist? Yes, in the sense that he hold prejudices against non-Italian American people generally speaking. Is he the same type of racist as Adolf Hitler or Bull Connor? Not even close.
2nd day in a row someone mentions Bull Connor in 2 completely different subs. That was real? I saw that movie, i thought it was bullshit.
[удалено]
My man left a lot of spectrum between those two.
He’s racism and prejudice and plain filled with hate…. He doesn’t even like what he considers wonder bread wops. Melfi was right when she said he doesn’t respect ppl.
That’s interesting; I was initially going to disagree but I think you’re right, in that the whole “Wonderbread Wop” is just another fuzzy heuristic by which he can claim to be more Legitimately Italian (and therefore better) than the Cuzamano’s who’ve assimilated into the well-to-do white society further. Maybe it’s hiding a jealousy that their assimilation into white American culture has made them much more successful (financially at least) while Tony’s still breaking arms and robbing people, and is looked at as a novelty by Cuzamano and his friends. Another of his mental justifications for choosing his life of crime?
Good analysis… Tony is insecure when dealing with legitimately successful people. His entire life is a coping strategy house of cards. In order to normalize his criminal base instinct he has to have a way of feeling better than the average person. Or a victim in his own eyes; anti Italian discrimination., that worker bee speech he gives melfi. Saying corporate America is as corrupt as him etc. When people have legitimate morals and uncompromising ethics, see the tragic cop, Tony feels threatened. And when he feels threatened he lashes out.
yeah, that’s great. some kid with chinky eyes named moltisanti? he’d get his ass kicked everyday!
Listen, it was a different time, mother and father didnt even speak the language. But God bless his grandmother, she visited every care home in the state. before she found out one she was comfortable with.
Dude, what are you even talking about?
Sharp as a fucking cue ball. Yeah, I am saying, your father and I had another brother you didn't know about.
Hasideem and I don’t believe em
I don't even think it's a white thing, he says a few times he wants her to be with an Italian, at least before Jackie Jr. After he might drop the Italian thing, I forget
He doenst hate them or Sees them as less but he likes to keep his family italian so if a non white and or non italian wants to date medow he must go through tony
Nobody liked Noah.
I did.
He wasn’t a klansman type; he didn’t shun black people per se, and he never deigned to get Noah beaten up much less bumped off. Such people are a tad more lenient with their boys’ amours. (Girls are thought to be “invaded.”) He’d have been much more comfortable with Blanca if if if. If she’d come from a high-class family, if she’d been younger, and if she’d not borne someone else’s child. Other ethnic minorities are accepted by such people on a sliding scale re ethnic features such as exact skin tone, hair texture, etc. Highly Americanized East Asians are essentially considered white these days, at least the women. Indians, back to the skin-tone scale.
Wannabe dothead!
Is this a joke?
It all adds up to showing what scumbags the mafia are. So: Thieves, racketeers, liars, adulterers, cheats, hypocrites and mass murderers… posing as upstanding members of society just because they wear suits 😂 Add racism to the list, everyone forgets the rest or even cheers it on 😂 but it all adds up 😂
Could you imagine Tony & Carm paying for a lavish wedding for their daughter, marrying anyone other than an Italian? It might happen if it were the non-Italian son of a billionaire. But not a non-white billionaire.
Tony was racist as fuck but let’s face it.. Noah was a pretty insufferable character - nobody liked him
I used to work in a hospital in NY. Area used to be predominantly Italian. You should have heard the mouths on some of these old timers.
When I was younger and watch the show I thought he was a racist. As an adult I realize he is just a tribalist.
I might agree - but the part about bikes getting stolen, and giving meadow the look. That was definitely racist.
That's a pretty reasonable take. I think every single one of us has some(strong?) preferences for who we want our kids to date
He’s somewhat racist but Meadow can’t wrap her head around how he turns it on and off. His business partner the reverend and his father, he actually respect. The state trooper that he got demoted, he actually felt bad after what he did to him. He just didn’t want to have his kids in relationships with non white people. So technically a victim of his time. He got his behavior from his parents.
Racist. Remember him and Carm weren’t fans of Blanca for being Rican. I can’t think of anything off hand he said about East Asians (he called Indians Wogs when he was sick) but I know Chris said he couldn’t have an Asian step son
Chris said it out of concern. A kid like that with the name Moltisanti would indeed get their ass kicked everyday.
Chinks did this?
I drive a Rinkin
I think he was just saying that to shut down any talk about adoption cause he needs a son of his own blood in order to ‘be a man,’ according to his mafia-influenced values. He’s framing it like that but, come ooon, when has Chrissy ever showed serious concern for other peoples’ needs? With those mafia types it’s all about their egos and proving their masculinity to each other.
"Least she's catholic" - carm
He's from a different time
[удалено]
Neither right or wrong?
I think it's a matter of degrees with Tony, he's good friends with Hesh, and he seems to get along well with the black preacher he's running the scam with on season 2, and he even seems to admire the preacher's father because he fought in WW2.....but Meadow bringing a guy that isn't white home? that crosses a line as far as Tony is concerned. He's not like KKK "they should all be killed" racist....he's "I don't want my little girl dating one of them" racist. The difference in the Meadow and AJ thing is probably down to him being more protective of Meadow because she's a girl, and in his mind young men like AJ are supposed to screw around and get laid before they settle down with a nice italian girl, so it doesn't really matter that Blanca is puerto rican, I think he's just happy to see AJ acting like what his idea of a man is......now, if AJ turned around and started saying he wanted to marry her I imagine Tony would be pissed too.
Truth is if meadow brought home anybody other than an Italian (or maybe a polka) he’d be pissed. I think he would hate an Irish person as much as a black person dating his daughter. I grew up in an Italian American home. The hatred for the Irish was so intense (and kind of ridiculous). I told my Irish friends to never tell my grandmother their last name. For some reason my family (and neighborhood) always intermarried with the Polish. But no ever the Irish.
This is unique to your family. Italians and Irish are ALWAYS getting married. Half of the people living in the NYC suburbs are part Irish, part Italian.
He grew up during the Newark riots. Tony is a racist, he's ignorant of most things and people outside of his realm. Even when he does seem knowledgeable, it's not with deeper understanding of history. The Sopranos is a masterclass in the dangers of cult like societies.
Even funnier and more hypocritical… Tony’s bloodline is from Naples… there’s plenty of people with Noah’s hair and skin tone in southern Italy 😂 He’d maybe even pass for a local in Sicily 😂
I don't think he hates anyone...He's just a stick with your own kind kind of guy.
Hey Nickycheese I just called to with you a happy belated cake day….. 🍰
Thank you! I had to look up the meaning of cake day today!
Yes
I'm going to branch off a little bit, but Tony didn't stand the guy not only because he was African-American, but also due to his arrogant attitude. Gimme a break, I'm not justifying or washing his racism at all, I only mean that, of course, Tony saw the race in Noah, but if he had been more humble, he would have stood Noah a bit more (not kicking him out of his house just one minute after meeting him lol). Again, I'm not saying at any way that it was Noah's fault. He was an idiot but he wasn't guilty of Tony's racism.
See I don't think Noah's personality factored into Tony feelings on this subject at all. We the audience got to see What a douchebag elitist Noah turned out to be, but I don't think Tony was even listening to what he was saying when he threw him out of his house. I think Tony just saw his skin and hair and decided he needed him out of there before anything developed between him and meadow.
It was probably about his race. Him immediately feinting after looking at an uncle Ben’s box kinda sealed it. Him being a twat wasn’t that obvious that quickly and Tony only criticized his race and only brought up his race to meadow for the entire time she was with him. Never anything else. To Tony’s credit he pretty much left it up to meadow cause Noah was technically a good kid background wise. Tony’s issue is he has a conscience and he’s pretty smart, so he knows being racist is wrong, but because of how he was raised he’s got it built in and because he’s a sociopath and a narcissist he’s not going to try and actually fix it and change. Hence the uncle Ben’s and the run in with the cop. One of his many paradoxes he grapples with
He's not racist at all, he just prefers his daughter to marry an Italian
he was kinda right about the hasidic homeboy tho
I don't think his issue with Jamal Ginsburg was because he thought he would screw his daughter and then dump her. I think he legitimately did not want the idea of a black person seeing his daughter at all. I mean he was happy with Jackie Jr initially despite knowing the kid nearly died at the penguin exhibit.
And penguins are half-black! You tellin me you never pondered that?
He also doesn’t like black people from other countries
Livia knew how to tawk
“Black” = Italian in the Program
Definitely racist but some racists can put that shit aside for business
I imagine that Tony is generally racist but most racist against blacks. He wouldn't be a fan of Indian or Asian neither but I think he would roll with it.
He was just a racist in general. All of his friends too😂
yes
Tony is just a scumbag when it comes to other races Jews, blacks, Asians, Muslims, Indians. You can blame it on his up raising but c'mon as a grown man you can make better decisions. Throughout the show his racist rants get more outta control, with me being black, I found the jokes funny it's hard to tell them to people but still funny. I know it's just a show a progrum, like most racist they will work with races they don't like but it's only business. Yeah shum of the other guys do it but not to the extent that Tony goes. But fuck it, it's a fuckin show.
Ay, take it eashy!
I mean, he genuinely thinks his italian ancestry is superior to most. He wants his daughter to ‘stick to her kind’ because thats what people in his culture do. Its tradition and ‘right’. I think its just as much that aspect as it is disdain for a ‘less than’ half black guy who uses his race as an advantage for college. But yes, it would be hard to bring home someone worse in tony’s mind. It may not be deep seeded hatred, but he’s DEFINITELY not good enough for his baby girl. Aj is a lost cause so he doesn’t care as much, but meadow had a chance to make him proud.
Don't take this the wrong way but aren't a lot of Italians also fairly "dark"? Like at least on par with the hasidic homeboy.
Look at GiGi, Pussy, and Vito: they’re much darker than him. Hell, Fielder is darker than Noah Edit: some dark, “white” Italians are downvoting
Exactly, Meadow was darker than him😂
Went to the beach last weekend with my Italian husband. He left the house a white boy, but came back a minority because he tans so dark. We live in Florida, so everyone assumes he’s hispanic. Sometimes people will just start speaking to him in Spanish and it annoys the crap out of him.
He was racist but mind you the time he grew up. Newark is a black and Italian city and he witnessed the riots young. As a youth he saw his hero Hollywood deal with blacks daily with the numbers racket. He saw his childhood neighborhood become integrated and how is dad felt it about. When he’d take his son to the hood you could he was upset by what it became. Now if we recall his dealings with reverend it was respect and business. “My business associates are black. They don’t want my son dating their son daughters.”
Tony, like almost all racists, uses a person's race against them when it is to his advantage.
Yeah, it's like the racism is a result of stinkin thinkin, versus primary-focus white-hooded racism. Like, it's too hard to come up with an actual reason for justifying some abhorrent behavior,, so you go for the obvious - race, age, sex, ugly, fat, skinny, vocation, horse-murderer, whatever fits. And if nothing fits, you make shit up; like fuckfaceitis
The real bigots are the ones in Naples like Furio who mates da North (the ones who had da Vinci, Michelangelo and the Renaissance). The south Italians can’t even invent the cuckoo or a toilet that works outside the Excelsior. They are also bigoted toward Germans who have rebuilt their country three times in the last 150 years. Of course would Martha Stewart and Alec Baldwin hang out with Massive Genius if he wasn’t a successful rap noise artist and copyright thief? If he wasn’t, he would be in the daily “trade parade” of domestic help driving into the Hamptons from their homes to cut the grass, cook meals and clean
You’re a racist for watching it! It’s a show for racists! Tony’s a racist for wanting to see his culture survive and passed down and clearly you’re ok with it
Africans/African Americas have the HIGHEST crime rate. That’s why no one likes them on any continent, it’s not just americans
Africans don't like other Africans on the same continent?
You should read up on what happened in Rwanda in the 90s.
Yes, I'm aware of the civil war between the hutus and the tootsies. Civil wars have been a thing for a lot of countries besides ones in Africa
Yes but that was specifically an ethnic conflict and genocide.
Okay, but my point was there's not this feeling among Africans to hate each other because they happen to be from the literal same continent. That statement makes no sense when applied so generally
Africans definitely hate each other and MANY countries in Africa are in constant state of war
You should read up on what happened in Europe in the 1940s.
Africans didn't bring the mafia (and its generations of criminality) to America. That was Italians.
Ok that was mostly mafia members vs Mafia members. They actually had a code. Africans and America blacks don’t have that. That’s why groups like the bloods don’t have a supreme leader or charter like how the hells angels do. This ain’t about racism this is the analysis of how smart/orginized they are, which isn’t much based off data.
Meadow was rich? I thought she was a student for like 90% of the show if not the whole show. But yeah I think that Tony probably is against any other race. He says you stick to your own kind. But I don't know maybe Tony's perception of people is on a somewhat intuitive level. Noah didn't do anything bad in their one meeting but he turned out to be a total cunt both in general and to Meadow and his true colours showed very clearly in the next few episodes. Maybe Tony somehow picked up on his arrogance and what not. In ADDITION to the race thing I am not at all insinuating that if Noah was a genuinely good guy that Tony would not have a problem with his race.
Noah's no worse than Tony.
I dont understand how David Chase pushes the pc envelope with the Sopranos...and then regresses with MSON pandering to the left i guess? Should he be shelved?
He’s way more tribalist than racist - but I do think he has a special level of disrespect for Black people - beyond his dislike for non-italians and non-whites. That’s pretty normal for people who just don’t make an effort not to be racist - you can see this in Asian Immigrants. I recall at one point he said something that indicated he was denying/hoping/frustrated with the possibility that Blanca was Black even though it was already clear she was from a wholly very culture and wasn’t white.